Is it true ESLs are starting to forget their native languages and can’t socialize anymore in real life in their mother tongues?
>>217613345I eventually end up thinking monolingual Korean speakers are dumber. I hate all the Korean reels and contents slops on Instagram.
>>217613345yes, the entire world is culturally globalized to be western
>>217614066there is no uniqueness to ESLs and 3rd worlders as it used to be, they're all the same slop scrollers addicted to the internet, the same jokes, the same cultural experiences but i guess there are expections in unknown jungle tribes with no access to any technology
>>217614066>>217614083(somewhat) RARE flag
>>217614162hello aussiebro
Funny thing happened to me. I'll explain.I was talking to someone about this truck which transports logs, and I called the logs lokki by accident. This word? it means seagull in Finnish not log. Log is tukki.
>>217613345Yes>>217614198>Lokki and tukkikek
>>217613345I ssiballyeoni mworaneun geoya aemidwijin saekkiga
>>217614196how is life in Mongolia?
>>217614246yoshi
>>217614264shitty, half of the population lives in one crowded tiny city that the government is too poor and incompetent to develop and expand.So we have insane traffic all throughout the day, half of the capital lives in shantytowns where they burn trash and coal to keep warm during the winter which creates disgusting polluted air. The cost of living rises rapidly and the mnt loses its value rapidly while salaries stay low and shitty, ive compared the ratio of living expenses and average earning, it seems russians and chinese earn more while having cheaper prices in living expenses, if westerners think russia is poor then we're poorer than thatTheres barely any oppurtinity and salaries are shit, most people are in debt just to afford the basic needs of life, the government and institutions are full of corrupt incompetent thieves who do nothing but steal money, the amount of money stolen by politicians in a year could have been used to build 5 powerplants which means we stop relying on russian electricity. Everyones dream is to move to a foreign country and finally live in humane conditions, theres no trust or love of mongolian institutions and jobs, no pride or patriotism, no unifying moral code for society, no religion to keep society atleast a bit united and it feels lonely and depressing here with high alcoholism and suicide, so another shitty post soviet country turned 3rd world i guess
>>217614404Just wait till Russia and China are dismantled and then you can play Mount and Blade like in the good old days
>>217613345My larynx is built for speaking english
Sometimes you forget words or make akward sentences, it happens.It can be hard to talk about a topic you are fluent in one language in another because often the technical lingo can be different. I can describe the workings of a gun in English pretty well while I have no idea what is the actual name for half the parts in Latvian.On the other hand, casual lingo is full of what is called Globalisms and Anglosisms, words borrowed mainly from English, especially for kids.In my experience girls are the worst. These dumb broads have adapted a speaking pattern where they alternate whole sentences between Latvian and English, however even the russian ones seem to speak russian/english hybrid.
>>217614404damn....sorry to hear that
>>217614943thanks for reading my long post, but to stay grateful, mongolia is atleast better and safer than complete shitholes like india or the congo
>>217614404i want to save you
>>217615010I know you are not technically a post-Soviet country, but spiritually one., why do they all have such a depressing story?
>>217613345Loanwords have been a thing since language existed. Half the shit you jsut siad is jsut mutated French
>>217613345No, why would we speak English irl?
>>217615301communism is a cancer, which destroys both the physical technical parts of running a country like the economy and institutions, and the spiritual/cultural part of a country which dictates the society's values and beliefs, in my country both are absolutely horrible, a combination of institutional corruption and poverty combined with a society with no values and morals really sucks, so tldr; because of communism>>217615152thanks maldivebro, but i can only save myself, my goal is to study and work hard to earn money and oppurtinities to finally find a life in a better country
>>217613345>and can’t socialize anymore in real life in their mother tonguesI can't socialize in any tongue
>>217613815Any monolingual is.
>>217613345Maybe, if they live in Jahannam (Angloland). If they're in their native countries, no.
>>217613345I don't have any friends and barely speak with my family so like 99% of my communication is in english and yeah it's getting harder and harder to speak Swedish.I even think in English now...
>>217614646>Sometimes you forget words or make akward sentences, it happens.This And double digit numbers ruined my german
>>217614646Pretty much this
>>217613345I don't use english except when online
>>217616982pretty much thisif you use ANY word in english/portuguese/italian/german, people will think you are try harding
>>217613815Unironically, the way English is structured as a language led directly to English cultural, scientific, and literary dominance over time as the language "cooked" (early/middle english sucked the way most euro languages still do for actually expressing things)
>>217613345T
>>217615370>>217614404YOU MUST RETVRN TO STEPPE YOU HAVE THE LITERAL MOST BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD STOP LIVING IN THE CITYI KNOW IT'S COLD AND YOU'RE POOR BUT FIND SOMETHING TO SKIN AND WEAR AND LIKE LEARN TO GROW SOME RICE OR SOMETHING IDKGO BACK TO THE STEPPE YOU HAVE TO
>>217614404Come over here, khan.
>>217617094You would dominate even more if the written letters actually coresponded to how the actual words are pronounced.
>>217618347It's not that difficult to remember how words are spelled though. I just think of a word and my brain spells it for me.
>>217617115I understand the enthusaism kek, and people do live as nomads in the steppe. And thanks for being so appreciating of mongolia. Honestly steppe nomads make a lot of money selling livestock products. And yeah, Mongolia is naturally beautiful, but the incompetent government pollutes and destroys it, sells lands to chinks to pocket money
>>217613345not in my case,no
>>217614404okay but is it any hard to score mongolian pussy
>>217618455What if you are given a word that you dont know the spelling of and you had to say it out loud instantly? No such problem when written as pronounced.
>>217618710i think so, it seems like any drunk wife beating loser can find himself a wife and manage to have some kids, but its a bad idea having to build a family in this shit economy thats why there so much financial stress and arguing in families, i think its best to make money first and get rich then think about wives and families
>>217618347Yes. We need to trim some of the letters too. I actually have a great idea for phonetic English where vowels (and consonants that have multiple single-designation sounds that other consonants don't share making them redundant) are doubled in place to produce their hard sound instead of a gay line or ending es all over the place and doubled consonants to prevent them being hard and lots of exceptions and special rules based on either the language the word originally came from or how it got written in the Bible or Shakespeare.Soft by default, hard when doubled, period, no extra steps.But people would see it as writing caveman speak or baby speak so it will never be adopted even if I pushed it.
>>217618554sad
>>217618455To speakers of other languages it seems like a needless complication.Granted it is the French words which are the main culprit, but it is still a hurdle a lot of people struggle with.The concept of a Spelling Bee is absurd outside of first grade classrooms.>>217618922>gay linehey now, macron is a cool guy he makes it easy to tell when the consonants are long.on a sidenote>consonant>vowel>verb>noun>adjectiveit sounds very academic but these are words that exist only within linguistics to describe linguistical concepts.In Lettland we don't do that over here, they would be>independent sound>following sound>object word>action word>trait/property wordI guess this is the sort of cavemen speech EFLs are averse to
>>217613345many words from hindi when translated to english sounds straight up rude
not really
>>217620040French is blameworthy but German of the time was not pure and uniform and consistent in its spelling conventions either and a lot of the blame rests on the English underclass for sort of forcing their own way out of the mire of illiterate ignorance, and the early Catholic church for helping and encouraging them.A whole nation of people learning to read and write and apply complex reasoning while still nearly penniless and surviving on radishes, imagine it.
>>217620191Please give us some examples
>>217613345We almost exclusively socialise in Kashmiri, and occasionally in Urdu/Hindi. English is something I use for my Amreki baradars; it’s the only language they understand.
Japan is the only country where kids are getting worse at English. Japan has its own internet bubble nobody knows American memes or what's going on over there unless it relates to Japan somehow. Meanwhile the average German kid is saying skibidi rizz six seven.
>>217620477That gives leverage to the Japanese language, if people dont face pressure to learn a language, many would simply travel to japan or move there without making an effort to learn the language.
>>217620477Japanese cultural isolation is probably actually stronger than the Chinese firewall from my observationEnglish seems like the exact opposite of Japanese in so many linguistic regards, even moreso than other Germanic or Romance languages, that I have found myself wondering how many people from either language who learned the other would be able to think in it directly, rather than via translation, even if they wanted to.The fundamental nature of the material world even seems to be conceived of differently to me between the languages. I wonder if that's why there used to be almost no Japanese on /int/ or elsewhere on the English net.>>217620556That is happening anyways recently. But I agree it probably increases the overall global power of Japanese.
>>217613345I'm not forgeting the French langage but I'm slowly forgeting the French body langage et the social codes. I communicate in French like an american nowadays. I'm audible, straight forward, overly friendly. The first impression I give is that I'm insane
>>217620590We've done it.He's degenerating into insidious, capitalist, optimistic sincerity. First the countryside, then the suburbs, then our linguistic siege of diversified and weakened Paris.By 2035 the average "French" man will be strutting along with his hands in his pockets, head high, whistling without a care in the world other than to smile, nod, and mumble "how are you" to every single random stranger he passes.When he gets where he's going, he will purchase not an eclair, espresso, or baguette, rather he will be ordering a large egg sandwich made using a bagel instead of actual bread. The yolk will run down through the donut hole, staining his once-cultured fingers.He will walk back to where his Chevy Tahoe is parked and drive a quarter mile to his place of work.I can see him now, singing along to Mariah Carey's "All I Want For Christmas Is You". The month? September.
>>217613345It happens. From time to time.
>>217620584One funny thing about English education is it's learned with katakana to teach you how to say the words. Every kid is awkwardly forced to memorize all these strange words and pronounce them in a totally unnatural way, it sounds nothing like how English speaking people actually talk. There's do distinction between "code" and "cord", they are spelled the same in katakana. I'm sure you know ラブライブ but what English speaker with no knowledge of Japanese could guess that this say Love Live? It's just the most incompatible education, so kids grow to dislike it and ignore it and just use their own language.
>>217620342>>217620342>"आपकी" -> 1>"तुम्हारी" -> 2suppose when we talk to teachers/elders/seniors here, in hindi we can say "ये आपकी गलती है" which translates to english: "It's your fault" which if you translate back to hindi changes to "यह तुम्हारी गलती है" instead of "ये आपकी गलती है". They both mean the same in english but we will use "ये आपकी गलती है"(1) when we are addressing anyone in a polite/respectful way and we will use the (2) only when we are addressing someone who is younger to you or friends, it's okay between friends but it is rude and impolite if you speak to your teacher using (2).The sentence "You don't know?" when translated to hindi can have different meaning depending on the person you are addressing:>Polite/formal: "आपको नहीं पता?">Informal: "तुमको नहीं पता?"I can't come up with more right now but there are more iirc. I only remembered this because my hindi teacher often discussed translations.
Nope. I browse this site everyday but my english never truly improved.
>>217620908btw the translate here I mean is if you are using a online translation or the person involved in translation doesn't know to whom this is addressed to
>>217613345No?
>>217620908Very much the same situation in Japanese. Two phrases with a very different tone will translate to English the same way since English has no way to encode this information other than adding different words. It's why translation from Japanese to English is so difficult because a lot of the nuance is lost between 待ちなさい and 待ちやがれ
>>217620825To be honest I have only vaguely heard of Love Live, if my memory is right it's one of those idol games with child characters so I hadn't any interestBut I know exactly what you mean, the formalization of everything into syllables that are understandable by the current system's grammar, pacing, structure and importantly pronunciation is no doubt easier for people who made the system, who grew up speaking/writing/thinking Japanese and learned to decipher other languages as an adult, but for a kid it's just teaching them to always say "pureasu herupo me findo daah-eee baforoomo" (I'm not actually very good at racism phonics/I sort of automatically adapt to accents after a bit and stop noticing them so much, so I'm sorry if that isn't the right engrishu I'm typing), while doing their level best to speak as they were taught.I'd like to help ESLs more but apparently all the apps and stuff are where you get paid to interact with them and are supposed to have credentials, which I don't have any at all and don't know half of the formal rules myself, I'm just English monolingual and decent at deconstructing the language and at understanding what people mean to be saying/why they are confused without knowing their native language.I try to help out a bit when I have an opportunity on /int/ but it's kind of rare, maybe we need an /esl/ like there's a language learning general and a learn Japanese general.
>>217613345yes, it's near impossible for me to put a comprehensible sentence together in my native languagei can understand other people speaking it just fine but when it comes to speaking it myself... lol might aswell give upalso near illiterate
>>217620825>>217620908>It's your faultDoes it literally mean that you're blaming them, or would something like "you are the cause of this" or "you're the reason for this" or "you can take credit for this" be better? Fault is generally a pretty universally negative word in every single one of its various meanings, it might be a translation error. Or it might be a way in which Hindi is actually more direct/open than English and English social skills just often involve talking around the problem or "being constructive". Interested to know what you think or hear more about it, I can't quite tell which it is.>You don't know?This would be taken as essentially a challenge of course in English, in that it's a question only because of the intonation, but it's a question phrased as a statement. Essentially it's assuming they don't know and asking them to justify why they don't know, or to prove to you, as if you were an authority, that you are wrong and they do in fact know. All of that implication and potential conflict or hurt feelings just over a sentence structure seems pretty wild given that English tends to be very explanatory, but it's true in this case.So to avoid causing friction and making NEETs seethe about rude Indians on /int/ you could say:>Do you know? (neutral)>You know [x thing]? (implying you think they may but are just checking - this may SEEM like it would be the challenge given you're sort of vibe checking them and acting like you expect them to know, but in English cultures expecting people to know things even if they don't is basically complimenting them/makes it seem like you expect them to be smart, so insecure/prideful people may pretend to know but others will just admit they don't, usually eager to find out/curious)>Did you know that/about [x thing]?>Have you heard of/about [x thing]?Brings up thing, passes ball to them if they want to keep discussing it/say if they know about it
You all disgust me.
>>217613345I went to an English medium school where my teacher would punish us if we even conversed in anything other than English. Now these boomers wonder why so many of us can barely even read our state language.
>>217613345My Russian got really bad over the years. My Hebrew is good, but I often need to translate words that I only know in English to Hebrew.
>>217621228Hit char limit, a few more>Did you know about...., did you realize..., etcUsing did instead of do makes the knowledge past AND present tense because if you forgot, you wouldn't remember that you ever knew, so it's saying, did you already know. This COULD be rude or accusatory if in the context you are talking about something they did or didn't do, like you're interrogating them if their actions were due to ignorance or malice, again only situational though.>Were you aware that/of....?This one can be a bit tricky because it is part of the bundle of modern passive-aggressive corpospeak/HRspeak in that if you get an email with that in it they MIGHT be inviting you to a company barbecue someone forgot to send you a memo on, but they might also be "gently" getting after you about something, whether you did something wrong or they just think you did.HOWEVER it is also a great way to ask about their knowledge of something that is either very specific/niche/individualized to the situation, OR a very broad concept that may or may not apply to directly to anything they have experience with. So for those it can be elegant whereas for the mid-range of more common broad topics "know" is probably favorable.
>>217614404Rejoin China.
>>217621303When did you move to Israel?Are you actually Jewish?
>>217614404Outside of goverment job, what kind of jobs is considered high value in Mongolia?
>>217621413I was born in Israel. But I didn't speak Hebrew until 1st grade. My family immigrated from the USSR to avoid antisemitism.
>>217621031You may also find my bit about "You don't know?" useful in my other post. The thing to remember about English is that it has tones but they usually only encode the following:>emotionWith so much specificity, and sometimes region-sensitivity or dialect-sensitivity that it can and does cause severe misunderstandings on its own between two native speakers regardless of the words said - in extreme cases, people have probably been killed before for their tone despite genuinely not meaning it that way, though obviously it would be very rare and insane. In fact, English uses tones very much like Japanese uses facial expressions and hand gestures to "cut through the formality and convey the true meaning" or to "read the room".>sarcasmThis is just emotion part 2, and can be layered on top of emotion, you can not only be sarcastically any emotion just by your tone and maybe by how you draw out the cadence or individual syllables or imitate voices, you can sarcastically imitate sarcasm and sarcastic imitations themselves and native speakers just "get it".>pantomime/mimicrySee both of the above. Tones of voice indicate character traits. Just as Japanese have various social roles, stereotypes, etc conveyed often through specific words and phrases, and are always coming up with new ones especially now online, English has its own "cheese gyudons" largely just by the general tone of voice. Everyone knew Homer Simpson would be dumb from hearing his voice actor on the first episode. Everyone knows what a caveman or an intellectual "sounds like" even without the grammar variance added to the character. You see it in Japanese and other languages too of course, think the guttural manly samurai "accent", but it's super pronounced and nuanced in English expression, and we use comparatively few words or gestures to indicate it.
>>217613345This is what monolinguals will tell to themselves to justify their lack of discipline
>>217621565>>217621031Part 2>multiple meaning wordsThe only time tone factors into this is if it's in some sort of pun/poem that reuses a word with two meanings and the same pronunciation on purpose, or if it's the same word spelling-wise but pronounced differently to mean two different things, which each may or may not have a little tone signature to sort of go along with its usage or meaning. Other than that though, English relies on its good context impliers to distinguish, which generally works since the diversified phonemes mean less repeat words, often they're coincidental from different source languages or are derived additional/abstract meanings of the original meaning.>sentence typeDon't know what the proper term for this is.Question, statement, command, exclamation. As I touched on, the exact same sentence, sometimes even longer sentences, can be either a question or a statement/command/exclamation. Usually this is because someone long ago or even recently just started abusing the powerful place the questioning tone has in the language to say statements as questions, but sometimes it can even be grammatically correct both ways.There is also another "sentence type accent" for when you are prompting a response or for someone to finish what you are saying, but not in the form of a question. I don't know exactly how to describe it but you'll see it in movies, usually ends with a high intonation trailing off or even if they complete the sentence.There is also the "quotation accent" or "reading voice" you could call it where you speak as if in a different voice or more clearly or neutrally.>emphasisCan be mistaken for emotion and is frequently mixed with emotion, you can emphasize either single syllables or words or whole phrases noticeably and deliberately over others to highlight the importance or status as a dependency of that part of what is being said. Very useful so long as the listener realizes when you're emphasizing for clarity, not emoting.
I love cheap thrills
>>217613345It seems to me EFLs are forgetting their language more, at least grammar
>>217624431What do you mean?
>>217620825>There's do distinction between "code" and "cord"If it makes you feel any better, there's no distinction between these vowel sounds in older Caribbean English. You can even heard the singer rhyme "Ford" and "code" in this song:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGYG6-MpboI
>>217624519I hear so often bad grammar from native EnglishE.g. watched video heard bloke say "for my wife and I". Also prince Harry said it I just googled it, britishers are discussing why its wrong and they dont understand
>>217613345only terminally online people with no irl friends, such as me
>>217613345It's true, I'm not fluent in either Arabic or English. I stutter a lot and speak slowly regardless of the language I'm using.
>>217614404I don't feel sorry for yout. learned about the mongol invasions in school
>>217624989But the Mongols never came to Saudi Arabia
>>217620040>The concept of a Spelling Bee is absurd outside of first grade classrooms.Don't they mostly spell uncommon loan words like dghajsa though?
