Was life worse during Joseon Dynasty, Japanese ruling or current Koreas?
>early Joseonmaybe something closest to actual functional Confucian utopia>late Joseoncorrupt, impoverished hell ruled by demonic oligarchs and dumb coward kings, and riddled with extreme civil unrest >Japanese occupation age of enlightenment and modernization>pre-democratization South Koreabenevolent dictatorship, constant rapid growth, ethnic and social harmony, ubiquitous societal order>post-democratization South Koreastagflation, unemployment, housing crisis, systematic government corruption, Chinese invasion, Chinese voting in municipal elections in favor of candidates who grant massive benefits to them with KOREAN taxes, Chinese living with greater privileges than Korean citizens, Chinese criminal syndicates walking around broad daylight, Chinese hoarding up real estates, Chinese smuggling drugs, Chinese breaching phone providers and government orgs, ruling party endorsing all the things listed above and sucking Chinese dick
>>217783054DAMN China really done fucked up y'all's gig
>>217782321Japanese rule was good for Korea. Slavery was abolished, the population doubled and Japan invested heavily into industrial and economic development. The narrative that Japanese colonial rule was bad is communist propaganda
>>217783054>>Japanese occupation>age of enlightenment and modernizationHow widespread is this view in S. Korea right now, if at all? If you had to give it a percentage
>>217783410Slavery was abolished in 1894, and even then, the slave population in the late Joseon Dynasty was only 2-3%, a near-zero level. Therefore, it was abolished immediately, without any resistance or opposition. And due to Japanese colonial rule, Korea's average height actually shrank. With Japan monopolizing over 90% of Korean capital and businesses, Korea was left with little to do. Even worse, less than 1% of the population graduated from middle school.
>>217783459With the development of the Internet, this is a common mistake made by people who read articles online that only contain incorrect historical information.
>>217783054the joseonjoks run korea with an ironfist
>>217783459On a site with an unusually strong right-wing orientation, there is a tendency to argue that Japan should be cooperated with and to glorify the Japanese colonial period. As a result, they consistently lose elections lol
>>217783545Is it really a common view by Koreans that Japan was not that bad and did you a favor? That's crazy
>>217783684Only otaku types and the far right. They’re just a loud minority. Ironically, the people who are friendly toward Japan and who defend Japan’s colonial rule are from the far right, yet every right-wing president Korea has had was strongly anti-Japan. On the other hand, the left traces its origins to the Korea Democratic Party(한국민주당,韓國民主黨), which was founded by pro-Japanese collaborators who had benefited from Japanese rule during the colonial period. Despite that history, they have since become strongly anti-Japan
>>217783684>>217783795Korea went from third world and underdeveloped to first world and prosperous because of Japan. How is that bad?
>>217783951i don't think they were first world and prosperous in 1945
>>217783951Under Japanese rule, Korea’s own schools were shut down en masse under the Joseon Education Ordinance, and Koreans were forced to attend schools established by Japan. Even then, less than 1% of Koreans ever graduated from middle school. So what exactly is supposed to have developed? lol.In mainstream Korean historiography, the start of Korea’s real modernization is generally dated to 1965, not the colonial period.
>>217783951I honestly wish there really were a historical truth that Japan developed Korea. If that were the case, I’d love Japan. But that isn’t what actually happened. I think the reason you believe Korea developed thanks to Japan comes from propaganda photos produced by the Japanese. In reality, those images show only a tiny number of downtown areas in Seoul and mostly neighborhoods where Japanese people lived. That’s why you see so many kanji,hiragana,katatana on signs and buildings.
>>217783054if japanese rule was so great why did you kill their PM?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%C5%8D_Hirobumi
>>217784014>1965It was done under pressure from the United States.It was the beginning of a nightmare for Japan.
>>217784210It is natural for a defeated dog to follow its master's orders. And America's ulterior motive was to bind Korea by incorporating it into the Japanese economic sphere. However, this plan was thwarted by President Park Chung-hee's successful modernization of Korea.
>>217784105Bankrupt Korea begged to be annexed by Japan, so we accepted unwillingly.And now, they insist "We were invaded!"We will never touch Korea.
>>217784249Yes, that's the photo I was talking about. They posted a photo of a Japanese residential area in Seoul and claimed that Korea developed Japan.
north korea calls themselves joseon while south korea calls themselves han gooks
>>217784248That has led to the current distorted relationship.An alliance where neither side trusts the other, a distorted relationship.Without that, we might have developed a more peaceful relationship.
>>217784455There’s no big difference. South Korea inherited the name of the Korean Empire (Daehan Empire), while North Korea inherited the name Joseon. It’s essentially just a change of labels. Both trace back to the same ruling dynasty and royal house. Because of that, even today the Korean Empire is often treated as an appendix to Joseon, and a large number of Koreans still casually refer to the Korean Empire period as part of the Joseon era.
>>217784179Don't bother with pms they once tried to assassinate tenno himself.
>>217784290You've always no ability to control your nation.
At least Japanese occupation was far better than the Late Period of Chosun. Speaking the truth, slavery rate of Chosun was around 30~40% and 1894 Gabo Gaehyeok was totally affected by Japanese. Gojong was absolute shithole. The reason the average height of Koreans decreased during the Japanese colonial period is because many infants and young children, who would have died in the past, survived. As a result, the number of children who contributed to the lower statistical averages increased.
>>217785094t. A country whose GDP has decreased by 20% compared to 10 years ago.
>>217785187This is why the right wing cannot win elections. They maliciously exaggerate Joseon in order to whitewash Japan’s invasion. The claim that over 30% of the population were slaves in Joseon applies only to a limited period of about 20–30 years during the Gyeongsin Great Famine. After that, the proportion of slaves declined sharply in the 19th century, and by the reigns of King Cheoljong and King Gojong, the slave system had completely withered away and was merely awaiting formal abolition
>>217785094i could have saved those kimchi women
>>217785366https://contents.history.go.kr/mobile/km/view.do?levelId=km_027_0060_0060Nobody give any shit about election at this country. Truth is Truth.After 1860, Around 30% of Korea's population was salve. Gabo Gaehyeok was totally affected by Japanese. Gojong purged all reformists and had no intention of freeing slaves. Again, nobody give any shit whether leftshits or rightshits win the election. Truth is Truth.
>>217785469You’re maliciously exaggerating Joseon again. You can’t even properly read the data you brought yourself. The "Danseong" household register written there refers to a single village in Daegu. That figure was abnormally high only in that one village. Don’t you see the average statistics right above it? It seems you don’t, so I’ll post them here for you.
Are you really claiming that the slave rate was only 2% based on these statistics?In 1858, 70% of Korea's population was yangban. This doesn't mean they truly enjoyed yangban status; they simply copied the yangban's surnames. Many slaves still used yangban surnames.Let's stop spreading misinformation.
>>217785746LMAO Why is that data supposedly wrong? By the reign of King Cheoljong, Joseon had already collapsed and was no longer functioning properly. That’s why pedigree falsification became widespread and the number of yangban surged. Look instead at the Jeongjo era, when Joseon was still functioning normally. Even then, the slave population had already fallen to around 6%. Open your eyes and look properly.
>>217785883If 70% of the Korean population were yangban (nobles), why did the Donghak Peasant Revolution occur? Had it not been for the intervention of the Qing Dynasty and Japan, it would have resulted in a catastrophe similar to the French Revolution.Hey, Joseon society at the time was on the verge of collapse. The term "nobi" here literally refers to slaves who retained their surnames, not to those who had escaped slavery.Think of the Sinan Salt Farm Slavery Incident. Yes, they were recorded as laborers on paper. Were they actually free?
>>217783795I guess right wing people in my country are the same in the sense that they believe letting USA invade will fix the country
>>217785970>조선왕조는 1731년, 1744년, 1783년, 1801년에 걸쳐 노비 제도를 무너뜨렸다 [1] 노비 인구는 1858년까지 1.5%로 감소했다 [1]>The Joseon Dynasty dismantled the slave system through reforms in 1731, 1744, 1783, and 1801 [1]. As a result, the slave population declined to 1.5% by 1858 [1].One irony is that those who hate slavery defend the era of the invaders when entire nations were reduced to slavery.Just be honest. You love Japan and hate Korea. That's why you're rewriting history. That's your true intention.
Current NK is a workers paradise. If your country doesnt have a lenin statue you have no rights
>>217785970LMAO TThe Donghak Peasant Movement was not about yangban versus slaves. As I said, most so-called yangban were simply people who had falsified their genealogies. In any case, Joseon’s slave system had already been collapsing since the 18th century. Stop forcibly linking two completely unrelated events, admit your loss, and go watch some anime or something.
>>217786047Oh yeah, yeah. 70% of the population of a country was aristocrats.You don't know the difference between using the last name of yangban(royal) and being a real yangban(royal)Do you think it makes sense that 70 percent of Korea's population is aristocratic, according to the statistics you brought in? According to you, Korea is a very bizarre society where 70 percent of the population is aristocratic, 28 percent is commoner, and only 1.5 percent is slave. What a great societyThis is why I hate Korean nationalists. They can't notice that there are fundamental errors in their arguments. And I hate Japanese culture and such stupid animeshits. The reason why pro-Japanese history continues to emerge in Korea is so simple. People realize the truth and can't stand the spread of lies, incitement, and obscenity. Look at you now. You have no interest about the truth. Look at you keep talking about Japanese culture, left and right, and elections. who care about that shits? The answer is simple. You don't care what the truth is. You never think whether it is truth or not about any arguments or discourses. You just think about 'What kind of "side" is this?', 'What "tendency" does it have?', 'Which "force" is this statement more favorable to'?
>>217786362You’re just a pathetic otaku who needs Joseon to have had a huge slave population in order to praise Japan. But nowhere in statistics or historical records does any evidence exist that supports what you want to believe.And you keep bringing up the number of yangban, but that was simply the result of large-scale genealogy falsification in the late Joseon period. The slave population had already been collapsing since the 18th century, long before that.If Joseon had still had a large slave population by the late 19th century, there should clearly be records from the missionaries who came to Joseon in the 19th century describing widespread slavery. That would be the reality seen through third-party observers. Yet nowhere do such records appear lol Free yourself from your delusions. The only time when slaves accounted for one-third of the population in Joseon was during the Gyeongsin Famine during the reign of King Sukjong. The figure of 1/3 could only be reached if a great famine were to strike.During this time, the Japanese even ate their own children.
>>217785312Too much Koreans want to pay much money for Japanese.
>>217786479The Japanese can't even eat rice anymore
>>217786047Go on. Delusion that 70% of a country's total population is aristocratic. I've never heard of a country like this in human history.It's not that Korea's slave system has collapsed, it's just that the entire public power of Korea has collapsed. Do you think this is the right situation? Do you think this is a 'reform'?Why did I mention the Donghak Peasant Movement? As you said, 70 percent of a country's population is aristocratic, and if the country's situation had worked well, would the country have gone bankrupt due to its own internal strife?
>>217786517The real delusion is the claim that “70% of the population was aristocratic.” That number comes from massive genealogy falsification in late Joseon, not from a functioning aristocratic system. Being recorded as yangban on paper did not mean real political power, land ownership, or legal privilege. It reflects social collapse and document manipulation, not a stable ruling class.And the decline of slavery began in the 18th century through legal reforms, manumission, and economic change long before the state itself broke down. As for the Donghak Peasant Movement, it was not a conflict between aristocrats and slaves. It was driven by corruption, tax abuse, local administrative failure, and foreign pressure in a decaying late-Joseon state. Linking Donghak to slavery is historically careless.If Joseon had truly maintained a massive slave population into the 19th century, third-party observers missionaries, diplomats, and travelers would have clearly recorded widespread slavery. They did not. That absence of evidence matters.What you are doing is confusing late-Joseon social chaos and paper-based status inflation with a real caste system. Those are not the same thing.
>>217786510We enjoy Taiwanese rice.
>>217786411Missionaries' Observations: Many missionaries and Western visitors documented the slave system during the Joseon Dynasty. Their books commonly feature observations about the status system of Joseon society, along with the lack of proper accommodation and sanitation at the time. Joseon's slave system was then recognized as a poorer slave system than Russia's serfdom in Western society.Social Reform Efforts: Missionaries regarded unequal customs in Korean society at the time, including the slave system, as a serious problem. In particular, the early Christian movement took on the social reform character of solving life problems, such as the slave system, gender discrimination.Significance of Records: These foreigners' records became important historical sources to grasp the reality of the slave system in the Joseon Dynasty, including the fact that slaves made up a significant portion of the population (sometimes up to 40 percent) and were legally able to be sold or inherited like objects.Comparison with Western Slavery: Although some scholars believe Joseon's slave system is different from the Western slave system, both systems were seen as similar forms of exploitation that subordinate humans from the perspective of Western missionaries.---------------------------Oh stupid. The fact that the slave population you're talking about has not really decreased, it's just that slaves used their last names, too.You still don't understand. Does it make you a nobleman to use a nobleman's surname? Does this mean that slaves became aristocrats because of the collapse of social power?Yes, fantastic statistics that show 70% of a country's population is aristocratic. Still Cherry picking. The truth is the truth. Don't distort the facts. The truth is the truth even if no one sides with you.
>>2177866621) The slave system in Joseon had already been collapsing since the 18th century. It didn't suddenly decrease in the 19th century.2) If slavery had truly been widespread in Joseon until the late 19th century, Western third-party observers would clearly have recorded that Joseon had a very large slave population. Yet no such records exist anywhere.3) The sharp increase in the number of yangban during the reigns of Cheoljong and Gojong was simply the result of large-scale genealogy falsification; it does not mean those people were actually aristocrats in reality.4) The Donghak Peasant Movement was a farmers’ revolt against exploitation and corruption and has nothing to do with slavery.You should just visit a hospital.
>>217786620Take out the steel frame embedded in your cultural property and use it to buy rice lmao
>>217785980It will though
What was even bad about Japanese rule?>ahhhhh the japanese are invading our irrelevant hovels and rather than being chinese vassals we have railways and hospitals and universities now AHHHHHH colonization was horribleI mean I can understand the WW2 atrocities and whatnot, but it seems like a net gain, you don’t see the Taiwanese crying over Japanese rule
>>217783951South korea was worse off than North Korea into the 80s. It was only the 80s takeoff of Asian economies that finally brought them to firstie status
>>217786683조선시대에 서양(주로 가톨릭) 선교사들이 ‘노비’ 제도를 직접 언급한 기록은 분량은 많지 않지만, 몇몇 구체적이고 확인 가능한 사례가 있습니다. 아래에서는 실명·문헌·맥락을 중심으로 정리해 드릴게요.1. 프랑스 파리외방전교회(MEP) 선교사들의 후대 기록 (19세기 후반)※ 이들은 조선 후기(순조·헌종 대)에 입국했지만,조선 사회 구조에 대한 체계적 관찰을 남김예:피에르 모방(Pierre Maubant)샤스탕(Jacques Chastan)노비 관련 인식조선의 노비는 서양의 중세 농노보다도 법적 지위가 더 약하다매매 가능, 형벌 시 주인의 재량이 큼여성 노비의 경우 성적 착취 가능성도 언급중요한 관찰일부 양반 신자들이“하느님 앞에서는 평등하다”라고 말하면서도노비 해방은 거부하는 이중성 지적 선교사들은 이를“신앙이 사회제도를 변화시키지 못하고 억눌리는 대표적 사례”로 평가2. 노비 해방 문제와 교회 내부의 갈등선교사 기록에서 반복적으로 등장하는 주제: 노비를 해방해야 하는가? 노비가 주인 허락 없이 세례·고해·미사 참여 가능한가?결론적으로선교사 개인들은 도덕적으로 노비제에 비판적그러나:조선 현실상 즉각적 폐지는 불가능공개적 문제 제기는 박해를 악화시킬 위험 그래서 기록에는 비판은 있으나 행동은 절제된 태도가 드러남 그밖에도 칼 귀츨라프, 호러스 그랜트 언더우드, 이사벨라 버드 비숍같은 여러 선교사나 탐험가가 조선의 노비제도를 언급하였으며 이를 노예제도와 동일하게 여겼습니다.------------------------------------------------------------
>>217786683You still don't get it. What you keep saying is that the slave ratio in Korea in the middle of the 19th century is only 2% is that most of the population wrote Yangbanseong because of the collapse of Joseon's public power. If you're going to argue that in the middle of the 19th century, Korea's slave ratio is only 2%, you have to argue that Korea's aristocratic ratio is 70%. You two have an equivalent meaning. In other words, even the rapid decline in the proportion of Korean slaves in the mid-19th century is the result of falsification of households, and there has been no actual decline or change.This is why I mentioned the Donghak Peasant Movement. When 70% of the Korean population is aristocratic and the slave problem has been solved properly, why did a civil war break out to the point where it would collapse the country?And there are a lot of cases where foreigners criticized Korea for slavery at that time. Checkmate. You lost bingo bhango bungo bungo bongo
>>217786866>조선시대에 서양(주로 가톨릭) 선교사들이 ‘노비’ 제도를 직접 언급한 기록은 분량은 많지 않지만>There are not many references to slaves in missionary records.Think about whyThat's just a record of slaves. There's no record claiming there were many slaves in Joseon. If, as you say, a third of the population in the late 19th century was slaves, why aren't there any records or documents left?In the records you brought, there is not a single record that says there were many slaves in Joseon.
>>217786820Taiwanese being cucks is no surprise to anyone
>>217786714Korea is refused to have currency swap with USA, why?
>>217786954Ha... The slave population had already collapsed 100 years ago and was less than 10% of the total population. It didn’t suddenly decline in the 19th century. Why do you keep arguing against statistics? If you refuse to trust the data, then look at objective Western accounts instead. Try to find even one record that says Joseon had a large slave population. You won’t.
>>217786980Did you know that Japan has automatic taxi doors? Amazing.
>>2177869651) 호러스 뉴턴 알렌 (Horace N. Allen, 1858–1932)직업: 미국 북장로교 선교사·의사체류 시기: 1884년 이후비판 내용 :노비를 *“법적으로 주인의 소유물”*로 규정기독교적 인간 존엄과 정면으로 배치된다고 비판저작《Things Korean》(1908)핵심 인식조선의 노비제도는 노예나 다름없으며 인구의 상당부분을 차지한다.2) 제임스 스카스 게일 (James Scarth Gale, 1863–1937)직업: 캐나다 출신 장로교 선교사체류 시기: 1888년이후비판 내용 :노비 세습을 “도덕적으로 용납 불가능한 제도”로 평가서구 노예제 폐지 흐름과 대비자료개인 서신, 선교 보고서특징노비제를 **‘사실상의 노예제’**로 명시3) 헨리 거하드 아펜젤러 (Henry G. Appenzeller, 1858–1902)직업: 미국 감리교 선교사체류 시기: 1885년 이후비판 내용노비 매매 관행을 비인도적이라고 평가조선 사회 개혁의 핵심 장애물로 지목자료감리교 선교 연례보고서4) 윌리엄 베어드 (William M. Baird)직업: 미국 북장로교 선교사비판 포인트노비제도가 사회전체에 광범위하게 만연하며 결혼·거주 이전의 자유가 없음을 지적“기독교 교육과 양립 불가”2. 외교관·여행가·군인들의 비판5) 이사벨라 버드 비숍 (Isabella Bird Bishop, 1831–1904)직업: 영국 여성 여행가방문 시기: 1894–1897저작《Korea and Her Neighbours》(1898)비판 내용노비를 *“재산처럼 취급되는 인간”*으로 묘사6) 퍼시벌 로웰 (Percival Lowell, 1855–1916)직업: 미국 외교관·지식인저작《Chosön: The Land of the Morning Calm》(1885)비판 내용노비제를 “봉건적 잔재”사회 발전을 가로막는 구조로 평가
>>2177870241) Horace N. Allen (1858–1932)Occupation: Target/doctor of North Presbyterian Church in the United StatesDesignated period: after 1884Contents: Human rights defined as slaves *"legally owned by the owner"*Written to fill with dignity and wigs《Part of Things Korean" (1908) is being removed. 2) James Scarth Gale (1863–1937) Career: Presbyterian recognition in Canada: Weight since 1888 Weight: Assessment of slave inheritance as "moral acceptance fixed" Western bond and connection data Personal letter, voyage claimTarget FeaturesOrganize Novidze as **'Virtually Je'**3) Henry G. Appenzeller (1858–1902)Occupation: For American MethodistDuration: After 1885contentThey call the slave trade assessment inhumaneIdentified as a Major Obstacle in Joseon SocietyDataMethodist Annual Report4) 납드(William M. Baird): North Presbyterian Church of the United StatesRelated ScoresThe slave system is pervasive to allow society as a whole, and there is no transfer of marriage or residence"Marked in Christian Education Granulation"2. a meal of diplomats, travellers, and soldiers5) Isabella Bird Bishop (1831–1904)Occupation: British female travellerVisiting period: 1894–1897authoring"Korea and Her Neighborhood" (1898)contentDescribes slaves as * "human beings who treat them like property"*6) Percival Lowell (1855–1916)Occupation of content: U.S. diplomats and intellectualsauthoring"Joseon: The Land of the Silent Morning" (1885)EnergyThe Novije is a "feudal remnant."evaluation of the structure that hinders social development
>>217787098Don't ask AI, find out for yourself. You're wrong from the very beginning. Allen left no such record.
>>217787067 What’s the context here
>>217787135Here's a scene where the Japanese are proving their superiority to the Chileans by showing them a taxi with doors that open automatically!
>>2177871251. 이사벨라 버드 비숍 (Isabella Bird Bishop)1차사료Isabella Bird Bishop, Korea and Her Neighbours (1898)원문 발췌“Slaves exist in Korea in considerable numbers.They are not merely servants, but property, transferable by sale or inheritance.”“The slave has practically no legal protection against cruelty or injustice.”--2. 퍼시벌 로웰 (Percival Lowell)1차사료Percival Lowell, Chosön: The Land of the Morning Calm (1885)원문 발췌“The institution of slavery still survives and widely spread in Korea,forming one of the most serious obstacles to social progress.”“The nobi is bound for life, and often for generations.”--3. 호러스 뉴턴 알렌 (Horace N. Allen)1차사료H. N. Allen, Things Korean (1908)※ 집필 시기는 20세기 초이나, 내용은 1880–90년대 조선 체험 기록원문 발췌“Slavery in Korea differs little in essence from that which once existed in other countries.”“The nobi is subject absolutely to his master’s will.”--4. 제임스 스카스 게일 (James Scarth Gale)1차사료J. S. Gale, 개인 서신 및 장로교 선교 보고서 (1890년대)원문 발췌 (선교 보고서)“The hereditary bondage of the nobi stands wholly opposed to Christian teaching.”“Human beings are held and transferred as chattel.”--5. 헨리 거하드 아펜젤러 (Henry G. Appenzeller)1차사료Methodist Episcopal Mission Reports, Korea (1890년대)원문 발췌“The buying and selling of slaves is still practiced,a custom which shocks the moral sense of the Christian world.”--7. 19세기 서구 언론 (집단적 1차사료)1차사료The Missionary Review of the World (1890년대)원문 발췌“Korea still tolerates a system of slaverylong since condemned by civilized nations.”--
>>21778345915% probably The Japanese aimed to "Japanize" Korean people and that included teaching them all the modern things, giving them vast infrastructures and allowing them to climb up the social ladder within Japanese society. compared to negroids being enslaved and getting their wrists cut in Africa and elsewhere, the Japanese policy was literal altruism. Only a handful people acknowledge this, even within the right wing community the majority opinion is still "Japan may have done some unintentional beneficial things to us but they are still bad for their intentions".
>>217787214>>217787122You keep dumping missionary records, yet nowhere in them does it say that Joseon had an enormous slave population lol You yourself are proving that Joseon did not have a large slave population.
>>217787221Nonsense. It’s probably around 5%. Stop citing DC Inside. Even the most viewed posts on its biggest boards only get around 20–30 thousand views. That’s less reach than a single trash tweet on Twitter.
>>217787314There's a lot of saying that slavery is widespread, or at least there's a lot of it. If the slave ratio was only 2%, as you claim, that wouldn't have been said.I didn't go around the country like I do today and do research, I just lived around Seoul and left a record like that. How terrible is that.There's a much more blatant record of a huge number of slaves spreading throughout society, but people like you would refuse to say that the Japanese wrote it.
>>217787425I didn't go around the country like I do today and do research, I just lived around Seoul and left a record like that. How terrible is that.==>>They didn't go around the country like I do today and do research, they just lived around Seoul and left a record like that. How terrible is that.
>>217787425Sorry, there's no such record. Don't ask the AI. Find the original text yourself and bring it back. Or ask the AI for the source. It's definitely not mentioned anywhere that slaves are widespread or have a large population.
>korean chuds hatred of women gets to the point they start thinking comfort women deserved it and were whoresholy based
>>217787474You're lying now. You're bringing in false information from AI without any original sources. Ask the AI for the source.You'll never get it. It's just a record of the existence of slavery.
>>217787398There's 4050 right wings too, and young people are majority right wing and Japan-friendly, many of them also have revisional views on Japanese occupationsome old peeps may miss the occupation period too, accounting all these it's gotta reach around 15%
>>217787588People can have different views. However, those who defend and whitewash the Japanese colonial period are almost entirely concentrated on DC Inside, and even considering their numbers, I think 5% is already far too high.
>>217787519You keep denying it even though you entered the source yourself.Let me start with a conclusion. You're never going to lose me. And you're never going to be able to deny what I'm saying. Your pure purpose in this debate is just to make it seem like I'm wrong in front of the other 4chan users. You're going to keep saying, "No source. No basis" and I'm going to deny it even if I bring the evidence and the source.Just keep going. Have you ever seriously considered and cared about what the truth is? People like you are ruining this country called Korea. That's why this country is full of hypocrites and liars. People who really mention the truth and expose lies are becoming "dumb people," and people who spread lies, lies and hypocrisy are dominating and gaining momentum. Again, even the missionaries who lived around Seoul at the time criticized Korea's slavery by continuing to refer to it as "large numbers," "spread across the country," and "slavery." What I've brought above is that I couldn't bring it all because of the limited number of characters. In reality, it's a lot more. When you add up to the Japanese record... ...it's going to fill this page.And you're going to continue to talk and talk and deny. OK, keep going. Live in your dreams until the end.
>>217787663Regardless Japanese occupation is still good and based, and I'd have Japan rather than Chinks
>>217787769You're mistaken. I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just laughing at you. None of the missionary records you brought up say Joseon had a large number of slaves. Why? Because there's no source. Because there's no such record. So what I’m asking is simple. if it exists, please provide the source. You can even ask AI to find it for you since searching is bothersome. Yet you still haven’t provided anything. In the end, you’re just talking nonsense about hating Korea and only preparing to run away.
>>217787957Isabella Bird Bishop — Korea and Her Neighbours (1898)원문 PDF / 온라인 텍스트(공개 도서) Project Gutenberg (무료 다운로드) — 전체 영어 원문 제공 링크: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/69300.html.images Project Gutenberg--. Percival Lowell — Chosön: The Land of the Morning Calm (1885)원문 PDF(공개 스캔본) Wikimedia Commons PDF — 1885/1886년판 스캔본 제공 링크: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chos%C3%B6n,_the_Land_of_the_Morning_Calm%3B_a_Sketch_of_Korea_WDL2377.pdf--3. Horace N. Allen — Things Korean (1908 및 관련 기록)원문 자료 접근 위치 Allen의 저작 Things Korean은 퍼블릭 도메인 또는 아카이브 열람이 가능한 자료로 여러 아카이브에서 스캔본이 존재합니다. 예시: UCLA Korean Christianity Online Archive 및 Internet Archive 목록 “Things Korean” PDF 링크 모음(무료 아카이브 링크 포함) — 목록에서 선택해 다운로드 사용 가능--4. Henry G. Appenzeller 및 감리교 선교 보고서 (1885~1905)원문 PDF 아카이브 위치 “A Modern Pioneer in Korea: The Life Story of Henry G. Appenzeller” (1912) – 초판 스캔 PDF 다운로드 링크: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/A_modern_pioneer_in_Korea_-_the_life_story_of_Henry_G._Appenzeller_%28IA_cu31924031023603%29.pdf --5. 선교사 연례보고서·저널 The Korean Repository / The Missionary Review of the World 등일부 호는 UCLA Online Archive of Korean Christianity에서 PDF로 무료 이용 가능: 종교·사회 비판적 묘사 포함 자료 목록 — Allen, Appenzeller 관련 리포트 링크 제공됨 Fro--What do you want more? Keep crying. If I bring the evidence in front of your eyes, you will deny it. Don't delusionalize yourself by using ugly frog pictures.
>>217787769정확히 말하면, 당신이 인용한 문장“The institution of slavery still survives and widely spread in Korea, forming one of the most serious obstacles to social progress.”는 온라인에서 확인 가능한 신뢰할 만한 출처가 존재하지 않습니다.즉, 퍼시벌 로웰의 Chosön, the Land of the Morning Calm (1886/1888) 책에서 실제로 이 문장이 나오는지는 확인되지 않습니다. 구글 북스 등에서 제공되는 미리보기에서는 해당 문장을 찾을 수 없습니다.확인할 수 있는 점은 다음과 같습니다.로웰의 책은 존재하며, 19세기 말 한국 사회와 제도를 다룬 여행기입니다.일부 2차 자료에서는 19세기 서양 관찰자들이 조선의 노비 제도를 언급했다고 나옵니다.하지만 인용하신 정확한 문장이나, 노비 제도의 규모를 넓게 퍼져 있다고 주장하는 구체적 표현은 확인되지 않습니다.결론적으로: 노비 제도가 존재했고 일부 서양 관찰자들이 이를 기록했지만, “널리 퍼져 있으며 사회 발전의 가장 큰 장애”라는 식으로 단정적으로 쓰인 문장은 온라인으로 확인할 수 있는 출처가 없습니다.원본을 확인하려면 책 전체 스캔본이나 아카이브 자료를 직접 봐야 합니다. 공개 미리보기만으로는 출처 증명이 불가능합니다.-------------You see? The source of the article you brought is unverified. That's why I'm telling you not to use AI to find it. Just check the source with AI. AIs lie like japanese and you
>>217788067No…what a fool????? first, you need to provide a record that actually claims there were many slaves in Joseon. I’m not just asking for any record of Joseon’s slaves.
>>217788067Among the records you just mentioned, there is not a single record that states that there were many slaves in Joseon, and even the records you mentioned about them being widespread are of unclear origin.>>217788088
>>2177880881 질문하신 문장은 로웰의 원문 그대로가 아닙니다“The institution of slavery still survives and widely spread in Korea, forming one of the most serious obstacles to social progress.”이 문장은 퍼시벌 로웰의 저서에 문자 그대로 존재하지 않습니다 학술 인용에 쓰면 오인용(misattribution) 이 됩니다이 문장은 로웰의 여러 표현을 후대 연구자·논문·블로그가 요약·재구성한 문장입니다. 즉, 의미는 로웰의 인식과 일치하지만, 따옴표를 치고 직접 인용하면 안 되는 문장입니다.2 로웰의 실제 1차사료 원문 (직접 인용 가능)아래는 실제 로웰 원문에 존재하며, 학술적으로 안전하게 인용 가능한 문장들입니다. Percival LowellChosön: The Land of the Morning Calm (1885) 실제 원문 “Slavery still exists in Korea.”책 초반부 사회제도 설명 부분짧지만 단정적 선언 실제 원문 “The nobi is bound for life, and often the bondage descends from generation to generation and widely spread.”노비의 세습성과 광범위함 명확히 지적 실제 원문 “Such an institution cannot but retard the progress of a nation.”노비제(앞 문맥에서 slavery 지칭)가사회 발전을 저해한다는 평가 이 문장들이 합쳐져서후대에 아래와 같은 요약문으로 재구성된 것입니다:“The institution of slavery still survives in Korea, forming one of the most serious obstacles to social progress.”---------------Is that enough? You used a strange statistic that says a country's aristocratic ratio is over 70%, and now you're picking a pod like this.When you write a report, if you describe an area as "a lot of dandelions," "no tulips," and "a crow roams," is it wrong to understand that there are a lot of dandelions, but there are no tulips, and crows roam?
>>217788372I could not find any online verification that Choson: The Land of the Morning Calm by Percival Lowell actually contains the sentence:“The nobi is bound for life, and often the bondage descends from generation to generation and widely spread.”I searched the available public previews and catalog entries for Lowell’s book, but this exact wording does not appear in any of them. The book does exist and discusses Korean society in the 1880s, but the text you quoted cannot be confirmed with the publicly accessible portions of the work. 예스24Here’s what we do know from reliable bibliographic sources:Choson: The Land of the Morning Calm by Percival Lowell is a travel account of Korea from the early 1880s. 예스24There is no freely available full text online showing the specific noble/slavery sentence you cited. That means the exact quote cannot be confirmed right now without accessing a full paid copy or scanned archive.In short: The claim might be circulating online in paraphrased or misremembered form. But the sentence as you wrote it cannot currently be sourced from the searchable previews of Lowell’s book. No online database or snippet of the original Choson text shows that exact wording.If you want to check the real original wording, you’d need a full scanned copy or library access, because the preview doesn’t show it. As of today, there is no verified online source for that sentence.---------------------- When I said “ask AI for the source,” I literally meant to find the link or reference where the original text appears, not to keep telling me to ask AI. I’m saying this for the fifth time. provide the source where the original text can actually be found.
>>217788555Percival Lowell, Chosön: The Land of the Morning Calm (1885)원문 발췌“The institution of slavery still survives and widely spread in Korea,forming one of the most serious obstacles to social progress.”“The nobi is bound for life, and often for generations.”--. Percival Lowell — Chosön: The Land of the Morning Calm (1885)원문 PDF(공개 스캔본)Wikimedia Commons PDF — 1885/1886년판 스캔본 제공링크: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chos%C3%B6n,_the_Land_of_the_Morning_Calm%3B_a_Sketch_of_Korea_WDL2377.pdfLook. You're just a delusional. I told you all the pdf links up there.
>>217788372I’ll take it as your loss if you bring me AI-generated text instead of the source link just one more time. Why? Because you haven’t provided any actual evidence. In the end, all you’ve done is have a date with AI to deny what you don’t want to believe.Let me say it again: give me the link to the original text. I think you got confused when I said "source", I mean the link.* LINK IN KAND YOU CAN'T
go to fucking sleep guys it's 02:42 in Korea
>>217788670Idiot. This is the screen that appears when you click the link you mentioned FAGGOT
>>217788691Are you blind??????? I show you the link.Yes here is 02:45. I have to sleep. Oh well. Everybody look at this. I borrow link several times and this guy said 'wHerE iS lINk?'
>>217788830I asked for the link where the original text appears, and all that shows up is the book cover. If it really exists, capture the part where that content appearsYou won’t be able to. That content isn’t there kek
>>217788830In the end, you went through all that trouble just to make up a sentence that doesn’t even exist.This confirms that there is no evidence anywhere showing that the nobi population was large in late Joseon, and it’s also not in any missionary records. Congratulations, weebThis is your complete and utter defeat hahahahahahahahahaha
>>217789033Checkmate
>>217789267None of the provided images explicitly state that the "slave population was large" in the form of specific statistics or numerical data.However, in the third image, which shows search results for various volumes of "The Korean Repository," the following mentions regarding slavery can be found in the previews:"Slavery has existed in..." (indicating the historical presence of the system)"Slavery and Feudalism in..." (discussing the system in the context of feudalism)"Resolved, That slavery is a crime morally..." (showing a moral debate or resolution against the institution)The first image (page 75) and the second image (page 96) primarily contain descriptions of the journey to Seoul, horse-rearing methods in Japan, the scenery around Seoul, and accounts of beacon fire stations and shrines; they do not mention the slave population at all.In conclusion, based solely on the fragmented information in the provided documents, a direct statement that the slave population of Joseon was "large" cannot be found. Only the fact that slavery existed and was a subject of critical discussion can be confirmed.If you need to verify additional content, such as the full text or other pages of these documents, please let me know.---------------Checkmate? more like Put a chess piece in your mom's pussy
>>217789267You thought I would run away if you brought a convincing screenshot, right? But I’m not running. Why? Because no such record exists. This is certain. The nobi population in late Joseon was about 2%. If, as you claim, it had been one-third of the population, there would have already been countless posts online in Korea claiming that Joseon was a slave paradise until its collapse lol
>>217789474What a stupid loser are you.I've been looking for this for 40 minutes.Enjoy your stupid brain lolThis is for sure. Joseon's slave ratio was never 2 percent. If it was only 2 percent, missionaries and foreigners would not even know there were slaves. Joseon's slave ratio, which was harsher than the Russian serfs, who accounted for 35 percent of the population, could not be 2 percent.
>>217790708You're right, it was exactly 1.5%.And about 100 years ago, it was 6%You lost weeb
>>217790984Yes. Keep believing that stupid statistic that 70% of Korea's entire population was royal.I don't know why the file got deleted, but I restored it.By the way, you might think I ranand come while you're gonna sleep, but I'm currently working on my college assignment and it's done. Do you think you can refute this smoking gun while you're awake?Anyway, whatever nonsense you're spouting, it's clear that Korea has a slave population comparable to that of Russian serfs (35%). Now, you losers, go and cry while I gonna sleep now.
>>217792435Nice try weeb but I understand why you cropped the right side of the original. If you actually read it, it’s not saying that the nobi population was large in late Joseon—it’s explaining how slavery in Joseon came about. Using such a sneaky trick, did you really think I’m a fool on your level?The reason you don’t understand is that you’re a fucking weeb. You’re deliberately ignoring the 18th‑century figures from a hundred years ago and obsessing only over the late 19th century. By the 18th century, the nobi population had already fallen to 6% and was declining. If you acknowledged this, it would make perfect sense that the nobi population was small by the late 19th century. But you’re deliberately ignoring it, clenching your teeth, because you’ve already decided the answer and refuse to accept anything you don’t like, idiot.
>>217792435There is no mention of the slave (Nobi) population being large during the late Joseon Dynasty.The main points on this page are as follows:Critique of the Political System: The author argues that the government is not for the people, exists only for the interests of a few, and is topped by a "despotic king."Absence of Religious Architecture: The author emphasizes a perceived lack of "religion" in Joseon. He notes that unlike other cities like Kyoto, Delhi, Rome, or London, there are no great religious monuments or "spires" in Seoul.Ban on Priests in the City: He mentions that religious buildings are absent from the capital and that priests are not allowed to set foot within the city gates, calling this a unique characteristic of the land.In summary, this page focuses on political structures and the lack of religious architecture; it does not discuss social classes or statistics regarding the slave population.Would you like me to find historical data or other excerpts regarding the social hierarchy or the percentage of slaves during the Joseon Dynasty?------ Grow up and deal with the facts instead of trying to mislead everyone with irrelevant pages fucking weeb
>>217792740https://n.news.naver.com/mnews/article/023/0003422667?sid=001중간에 오지랖좀 부리면서 끼어들자면..... 18세기 후반에 노비비율 30%넘었다고함 나무위키에선 19세기후반에 15%정도라는데 30%랑 1.5% 둘다 아닐듯.나 저친구아님. 여기 포챈에 한국인 은근많음ㅋㅋ
I am a gook from LA and I absolutely hate the annoying faggot pentup butthurt energy of japs. I wish they just kept it on their island, I don’t care about the things that were done. I just hate the feeling and people the feeling comes from. I don’t know why some Taiwanese love it so much, a lot of them hate, but Taiwanese think its god or something o algo
The pentup faggot energy of japs is one of the most annoythings in the world. America has its problems and niggers/spics/white trash/kikes but its the most tolerable one
>>217793049이건 걍 책팔이고 ㅋㅋ 근거도 없이 그냥 18세기 말에 노비인구 30% 한거임 조선 노비가 확 줄어든건 영조 때 경신대기근 여파도 끝났고 일천즉천을 폐지하면서 노비인구가 쭉쭉 줄어든거 이게 결정적임 그래서 정조 때 가면 10% 미만까지 쭉 떨어진거
There are a lot japs don’t like the faggot pentup energy want to live more relaxed lives, but they think its their identity or way of life or smth
>>217793263내가 찾기로 1820년대 노비비율 20%정도라고 나오네. 근데 19세기후반에 노비비율 1.5%는 캐오바고 당시에도 노예제도 좀 많이 까일만한건 사실이였는듯. 그리고 경신대기근 끝날때는 그냥 나라자체가 씹창나서 노비 죄다 빤스런해서 수를 셀수가 없었던거지. 솔직히 우리역사넷이나 이런거 국가차원에서 국뽕민족주의교육 해서 좀 걸러야함.
>>217793301Are you japanese yourself cause what in the ESLry is this post
>>217793418I don’t know smth frfr no cap alap o algo pollo hermano nigga brotha from anotha mutha
>>217793383참고로 수양머군 이 씹쌔끼가 일천즉천 만들어서 조선 중기에 조선 노비 인구 급증에 제대로 한 몫 한거 그리고 구한말엔 노비 인구는 거의 없던건 맞음 그 비율이 어느정도든 선교사들 기록보면 노비제는 까는데 공통적으로 그런게 있더라~ 수준이지 많다고 기록한 놈은 한명도 없음 다 죽어가는 제도였음 개나소나 족보사서 족보세탁 하던 시절이라 노비인구는 더 줄었겠지 실제로 그런식으로 도망친 노비들 많았고 그래서 노비 인구가 1/3이라는 저 병신은 사람이 아님 많아봐야 내 봤을땐 3% 미만이 맞을거임 아무 저항도 없이 바로 폐지 됐는데 이건 1/3이면 나라 뒤집어지지
>>217784249Japanese are just Koreans with midget genes from the Jomon.
>>217793558Japan gets all of its culture from Korea and China. Koreans even gave Japan their writing system and the Japanese language.
>>217783054Hm China's butthurt belt keeps growing I see
>>217793503찾아봤는데 현실적인 노비가 아직 ㅈㄴ많았다고하네. 일제시대때조차 노비없애려고 난리쳤다는데 공식적인 통계에 잡히지않는 노비가 존나많았나봄. 참고로 어디서 봤는데 19세기 중후반에 세계각국 문명도등급 나눌때 우리나라가 노비제도때문에 존나 저평가당했음. 노비비중 1/3도 과장이지만 3%는 더욱더 아닌거같음. 이건 뭐 완벽하게 통계로 낼 수 없는문제지
>>217793723일제강점기 땐 노비가 아니라 걍 잔재가 남아있던거고 그래서 6.25로 다 뽑혀 나가잖음 이건 다 알잖노? 그리고 그 지도는 노비제가 결정적이였다고? 첨 듣는데? 그거 팩트 있냐? 있음 줘봐라 내 보기엔 걍 복합적으로 보고 조선은 야만적이다라고 진단 내린게 전부일거 같은데 그리고 니가 찾아봤다는 1820년 그건 대구 한 마을 기록일거임 그건 그냥 그 마을에 뭔 이유로 노비가 많았던거지 조선 전체의 평균치는 아님 정조~순조 때 노비에 대핸 대대적인 해방이 이뤄지고 팍팍 줄던 때라 이 시기엔 노비 인구가 10% 미만으로 내려갔던 때임 왜냐면 니가 찾아봤다는 그 자료는 다른 자료엔 노비 인구가 10% 정도라고 나와있음 이걸 보면 딱 그 대구마을은 조선 평균치랑 비슷하면서 살짝 더 많은 정도 10~20% 사이였던거 이러면 당시 평균치랑 대충 엇비슷해지고 이해가 됨
댓글들 별 지랄을 한다. 노비가 중요한게 아니고 일제시절이 더 나았냐 아니냐가 주제인데 시발 조선이랑 비빌 껀덕지나 있냐? 그냥 뭐 중국 일본 다들 경제발전 하는동안 그사이에서 고작 상평통보조차 완전 주류가 못되고 쌀팔아 물물교환하는 개깡촌 거지동네였는데, 바퀴 굴릴 도로도 제대로 못내가 뗏목에 실어나르다가 엎어지면 강바닥에 생쌀 다 버리고. 관료들이나 조정이나 말로는 애민이 어쩌고 유가가 어쩌고 정작 실제 행정은 죄다 쳐빨아먹고 벗겨먹는데만 혈안이라 애절양 같은 작품이 나오지. 그러니 병합때 gdp가 20배인가 차이난다는데 무슨 조선이 내려치기 당한다 조선을 까서 우파가 맨날 선거진다 이딴 개소리나 늘어놓고. 그럼 선거 이기려고 역사 딸딸이 동참하리? 당연히 일본이 천사도 아니고 지들이 이득이 되고 반도를 방파제이자 교두보로 삼아야하니 고종 흔들어서 어거지로 집어삼켰지. 근데 광무제가 통치하는 대한제국이 신민들한테 조선총독부만큼이라도 해줬겠냐? 아니면 연해주 연장된 극동 전초기지로 먹혀서 어머니 러시아의 품속에 안겨 혁명도 같이 휩쓸리고 쭉 지내는게 훨씬 더 나았을거라는 대체역사 망상이냐? 인구가 두배가 됐으면 뭐가 됐든 서민들은 그전보다 애새끼 싸지를만큼의 향상은 있었다는 지표 아니냐? 그게 반박이 되는 지표냐고. 양심 좀 있어봐라. 부끄러운줄 알아야지. 못난 조상이 쪽팔려서가 아니고 족보사서 집안 내력 날조하고 윤색하는 졸부처럼 구는게. 다른게 아니고 그게 쌍놈의 자식이란거야.
