How would people from your country respond to the problem of evil?
the response is easter
>>218742621bump
>>218742621the physical universe has a principle of opposite forces balancing, it's like how magnets work. god is thunder.
>>218742621god has no "will", that's just human projection
>is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolentThat doesn’t follow
>>218744837It does. If you're on fire, and I have a fire extinguisher, and I don't use it to out out the fire on you, that would be evil of me.
>>218742621I always consider him indifferent. Like if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't care about every little shit happening in the universe as well. Hell you could even go as far and say, that most of the evil shit happening is his work, since why shouldn't he? We are his creation, he can do whatever he wants with us. Maybe he even thinks it's entertaining seeing our struggle and how we deal with it. At the end, what are Adam and Eve gonna do about it? You could also seeing it as him making us stronger, since every catastrophy we survive makes us stronger and more prepared at the end.
>>218742621The Calvinist response is that everything is pre-determined and already put into motion. You know how you can call your shots in billiards or golf? God set the universe into motion and whatever the conclusion is, even if it sucks for you personally is good. Nothing you do matters, grace is irresistible, everything is contingent, and morality is the result of the absolute sovereignty of God. Humans are also totally depraved so appeasing them isn't inherently good or bad there's some grand design above human suffering.
>>218742621>applying human rationality to a being that is beyond our comprehensionThis is just human arrogance.
>>218742621By giving them a mother's love!
>>218745133Or with other words>Don't question it chud
>>218745032>that most of the evil shit happening is his work, since why shouldn't he? We are his creation, he can do whatever he wants with us. Maybe he even thinks it's entertaining seeing our struggle and how we deal with it.That god you describe is evil. >You could also seeing it as him making us stronger, since every catastrophy we survive makes us strongerIt doesn't though.
>>218742621People from my country don't think
>>218745188>That god you describe is evil. Yes>It doesn't though.It does.
>>218745122Calvinism is an evil cult
>>218745285>It does.If someone were to be crippled from the neck down, that doesn't make them stronger.
>>218745148A mommy’s love can do anything!
>>218745402You now damn well, when I said "us" I mean humanity, but I'll bite. Yes the one who's paralised won't get stronger from this, but people will learn from this disaster and make preperation to not let it happen again, making humanity stronger in total.
>>218745600>people will learn from this disaster and make preperation to not let it happen againThat still doesn't justify that disaster. Imagine if I said that I went around kicking a group of stray cats, breaking their ribs and libs, to teach those street cats to better prepare against and run away from people kicking them. Would I have benefitted that group of stray cats? I might have made them more prepared for if some other person tries to kick them, but have I actually benefitted them by any metric? Are they happier? Are they healthier? If I had the power to campaign for animal welfare in my town, and convince my fellow townspeople not to kick stray cats, would that not have benefitted those stray cats far more than me going around kicking them?I cannot see the good in a cruel god inflicting disasters upon Humanity, causing suffering to Humanity, even if for the purported reason to prepare Humanity from any further diseaster that goe inrlicts on them.
>>218745122I mean with God everything has to be predetermined. God knows everything and created everything with full knowledge how it would turn out. Which imo makes him pretty fucked up with babies getting brain cancer and shit
>>218745600Now you're goal moving. We were talking about if a disaster make people stronger and now you're talking about if disasters are justified, unless this was your actual intention. Although you right in the aspect of why god would do that in the first place to make us stronger. Would still fit the evil narrative or the idea of an devil doing all that shit, instead of him. Or he perpares us for something worse. Or he's really indifferent and let those things just happen. Why do I always take part at this philosophical shit, when I'm supposed to do shit right now.
>>218746297And I'm also to stupid to answer the right person, which is >>218745882
>>218746297>We were talking about if a disaster make people stronger You used supposedly "strengthening" Humanity to justify God allowing evil, I don't think such a justification is valid.
>>218746112Niet. First mover is god, as in everything was put into motion by a primary cause, you can't know it. Secondary causes are primarily the focus of religion which has nothing to with god, where you end up going is determined regardless of action like when you swing in golf. Once the ball is in motion whatever happens happens. Secondary causes are free actions. Most of the idea of a prime mover doesn't work if everything isn't constantly in motion, the narrative collapses then, the fact that everything moves constantly is the proof. Funnily enough it doesn't work with the old model of Christianity that assumed the world was stationary.
>>218744990By extinguishing the fire I am denying you an opportunity to solve your predicament by yourself, thus making you weaker as a person.
>>218746417>You used supposedly "strengthening" Humanity to justify God allowing evilI mean justify is a strong word. I was rather thinking of the intention of why he might do it. Despite of that I don't think he needs to justify any his actions, considering he's a all mighty being. But the more I think of it, the more I tend to the idea that he's either omnipotent or malevolent.
>>218746789A father doesn't say this to his kids if they're caught in a burning home and somehow demands utmost submission in abramcuckery
>>218746940>Despite of that I don't think he needs to justify any his actions, considering he's a all mighty beingI don't believe that might is right, so God being powerful doesn't mean that He has no need to justify his actions. >the more I think of it, the more I tend to the idea that he's either omnipotent or malevolent.Me personally, I hope that God is good, but I don't know why he allows evil to exist, if I had God's powers no being would ever suffer.
>>218747060>if I had God's powers no being would ever suffer.Unless there are things, that even a god can't prevent. But you would still have the power to alleviate it, which considering how bad thing could have been multiple times in history, is maybe the case for our god.
>>218747310But God is supposed to be omnipotent, so technically he can do whatever he puts his mind to.So the only somewhat valid reason I can come up with for the presence of evil is that it serves some ultimately good higher purpose which we can't understand
>>218742621>I do not like thing, therefore God not real, he would never make thing I do not like>I build house next to volcano, volcano explode, God not real because if God real then no volcano>I stub toe, God not real, if God real then no stubbing of toes
>>218746634God is all knowing. He knows how everything will turn out and as a creator of everything, he knows how every single thing he created and the way he created them will turn out.
>>218747756all-knowingness comes from keeping an empty mind, this can be misinterpreted as indifference which it actually isn't because it is looking at everything
>>218747700Why is God going to afflict your future son with Harlequin Ichthyosis?
>>218747854>God isn't cruel, he is just empty minded retardThe fuck?
>>218747756If god is a prime mover then his job was moving, that's all. There's nothing more complicated than this, they literally say that there's almost no interaction with god when it comes to secondary causes and the bible's purpose is little more than a decree. When you line up a shot in billiards do you care about the ball or where it ends up? The entire point of making a distinction between first and second causes is to stop trying to appease god and instead find a way for you (a depraved free actor) to cope with whatever his plan is. The entire premise of Calvinism is that god does not care about you at all, you're stuck with his plan whether you like it or not.
>>218748107>God knows everything>God created everything>God knows how everything will turn out and created exactly as it is with that knowledge>He just doesn't care that how he set up things will give babies brain cancerCalvinism sounds metal as fuck but saying God isn't benevolent but rather indifferently evil sounds a bit heretical
>>218748206Yes, Calvinism was considered heretical. Why do you think Europe depopulated like 1/3rd of their population to kill Calvinists in the Thirty Years War? It was outright hostile to Catholicism mostly because people believed the world was stationary and all of Calvinism revolves around the idea that everything is always in motion. Even Lutherans were complaining about crypto-Calvinists like how communists obsessed over Trotskyites.
>>218747661But then again, why would he put us through this pain, instead of just creating us prepared, which leads again to the paradox. Man I slowly understand why people say "The ways of the Lord are inscrutable."
>>218746789which means, no matter how you slice it, that you're a fucking asshole
>>218744812>thy kingdom come,>thy WILL be done
>>218742621God just evil by our moral standards that it. Maybe he have godly morals which makes everything happening good in sense but from our observation as he do not elaborate he is evil that it.
>>218748931I never completely understood what "Thy kingdom come" meant, any EFL care to explain?
>>218749153I guess they consider jesus as king, and call his second coming 'kingdom'.
>>218747700what does God have to say to Iryna Zarutska? what was her folly?
>>218749265She didn't deserve candy
>>218744990Yes, because you’re a regular Joe and not omnipotent God with a plan from all eternity to bring about a greatest good. There may be any number of reasons for God to permit the defects he does in creation, sometimes this can be obvious to us but oftentimes it isn’t.
>>218749153Asking to bring about God’s kingdom
>>218742621Not enough people here have clear eyes to see evil. It's blinded by cultural obsessions and political propaganda.
>>218747854So if god was truly omnipotent, god would know the outcome of every possible configuration and choice. And if truly omnipotent, god would know those outcomes in such Intimate detail that no outcome would really be preferential to any other in terms of how real it is. At least that's my take on how true omnipotence is also infinitely impotent when it comes to changing an outcome.Anyways any god invented by humans is just fantasy
>>218749691But books say otherwise. Like million or billions of people couldn't be wrong on it
>>218749691If you want to go farther, an omniscient God would know everything about himself, including what he would do in the future from the instant time began. Meaning that he'd basically be locked in a state of effective paralysis where he himself lacked any will to act or choose, because he himself knows everything he'll do at all moments to the end of time. If anything he'd lose any sense of temporality and exist simultaneously at all times but thus lack any sense of the present at all times. So he'd just be in stasis, effectively.
>>218749855Why tho? He is also omnipotent so he can do everything. It just knows everything it's simple me knowing every detail on the street do not make me unaware of place so why he should be suddenltly catatonic if he just knows everything.
>>218749855You’re getting somewhere anonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_purus
>>218749934It isn't just knowing everything in the street, its knowing everything you are going to do or think or feel or experience for the rest of your life at all moments.Meaning that for your perception, what happens now and in the future and in the past are the same. Because your knowledge of each is identically perfect.
>>218750109Yes and? God know what is also happening and what is not. Thus he may act, it's like rewatching movie that you already watched and know from corner to corner but yet some people still watch it, so knowing everything will not prevent any action.
>>218749507>with a plan from all eternity to bring about a greatest goodWhy is tolerating evil necessary to that plan? Think of every evil action that ever occurred in history, do you really think that action was necessary to bring about God's plan for the gratest good? Is a plan that hinges on evil occuring really the greatest good?>There may be any number of reasons for God to permit the defects he does in creation, sometimes this can be obvious to usSuch as?
>>218749855Originally my post read "a truly omnipotent god would effectively by totally impotent" but I didn't because I didn't think anyone would get what I was trying to say, but you've arrived at the same conclusion as I did. I don't really have the brains to back this up with rigorous arguments, but I vibe-philosophise that a truly omnipotent god is the same as the set of all possible things, which means there's no such thing as agency or consciousness for a true omnipotence
>>218750420This is essentially anthropomorphizing. A true omnipotence experience everything at once. Thus, if you _can_ perceive reality as if it was a movie you have seen before, then a true omnipotence would do this for every single possible reality, at every possible angle and at any possible perception of time. In fact the whole concept of time becomes meaningless. Pondering what omnipotence truly means is quite a mindfuck
>>218751200It's for person perceiveing and knowing everything is mindfuck but for god... Like he knows every possible stuff he might be doing and might be thinking but it's god if it's omnipotent then it's not issue. It's not that hard and you don't need to overcomplicate things.
smarter people than me have pondered that and I would just copy paste their response
>>218742621God is testing those about to be evil, there's always place for repent and pardon
>>218749153Optative use of the subjunctive (making a wish). English is a barebones monkey language, so it's morphologically identical to the indicative.The concept of God's kingdom is vague btw, and no single Christian can explain clearly whether or not it's already in effect. Here it refers to the world to come.
>>218742621How would you know what evil means if your nanny always saves you from it?Those gayreek "philosophers" sound like whinny kids.
>>218749153It means re uniting with your creator while abandoning your mortal encasing.You can get a tiny grasp of it through some mushrooms and ayahuasca.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization
>>218752156It's just death with extra steps
>>218742621Why does God need to be omnipotent, omniscient, or good?
>>218751467>God is testing those about to be evil,Why? God is all-knowing, what's the point of testing an outcome He already knows?
>>218744812If your god doesn't have any kind of sentience or will whatsoever then it's not a god as much as just a force of nature like gravity.Anyways, no, gods don't exist and are a human imaginary invention.
>>218752912People who have had Near Death Experiences have said that they met God. Children who remember past lives say they met God before reincarnating.
>>218752980Anecdotal evidence I see. Could be lies or just hallucinations (not weird considering that under stress your body behaves differently and may hallucinate).Saying that you remember your past life is not evidence of anything, I could say I saw a dragon or that I was a dragon in a past life and that's just nothing evidence wise.Also, christians do not believe in reincarnation, after you die there's a trial and you may go to heaven. There's no such a thing as a "past life" in your religion and it really does no matter because it's all fake, but you are being inconsistent with your own beliefs.Actually, that's a buddhist belief, you would be burned for saying that past lives existed by your own religion some centuries ago.
>>218752980>People have said Irrelevant nonsense
>>218753105>>218753132>Saying that you remember your past life is not evidence of anything, I could say I saw a dragon or that I was a dragon in a past life and that's just nothing evidence wise.What about children who remember past lives where they were completely average people in different countries, and the statements of those children being verified by the family members of the past life person? And this has happened in thousands of cases, on all continents in the world. Look Up Dr. Ian Stevenson's research. https://youtube.com/watch?v=hZhMDU9GcVg&pp=ygUbaWFuIHN0ZXZlbnNvbiByZWluY2FybmF0aW9u>>218753132
>>218753225Do you know what a hoax is?Also, you did not address the contradiction between the christian God being real and reincarnation being real. Both can't co-exist as the christian bible is quite explicit about what happens after death.
>>2187532941 or 2 or a couple dozens od times might be written off as hoaxes, but there have been thousands of confirmed cases of reincarnation, documented by researchers, involving thousands children in every continent except Antarctica.>you did not address the contradiction between the christian God being real and reincarnation being real.While most Christians don't believe in reincarnation, reincarnation isn't explictly incompatible with the new testament.
>>218753504Stevenson addresses the critics in that screenshot by the way, most of those critics have written his research off without properly analysing it. If you have an open mind, then I recommend you check his research, and those of Jim Rucker and Bruce Greyson.
The instant they realised you weren't talking about work, the housing market, stocks, gold, sports or family they would say 'what the hell are you talking about?'
>>218753504>reincarnation isn't explictly incompatible with the new testamentIf you reincarnate how can you go to heaven?
>>218742621God encompasses all things. He is the beginning and the end. Evil is a creation of Satan. God created Satan, his most powerful angel, who betrayed him. Satan seeks to corrupt us and bring us away from God by tempting us to do sin. God cast Satan into Hell, where he exists in torment. He still wants as many people to suffer as possible. It's up to us to reject Satan and live by the teachings of Christ. hows that for you?
>>218754303>Evil is a creation of Satan. God created Satanrundown on this?
>>218754375Satan was originally good but used his free will to rebel against God. The first sin was Pride. This is the short explanation for the origin of evil. I just thought of another question thoughIf God is omnipotent he would have known Satan would betray him. So why did he create Satan? I don't know.
>>218754140>>218754140According to testimony from children who remember past lives, one can choose whether to reincarnate or not when they're in heaven.
>>218754675How desperate and pathetic do you have to be to actually attempt to believe this rubbish
>>218754675Fascinating story, but do you have any evidence besides the testimony of a child, who obviously was told what to say beforehand?If this is all christians got, I can understand why their religion is dying.
>>218754762The evidence is there. Too many testimonies from children have been independently confirmed by researchers for all the cases to be hoaxes. Read the studies for yourself.
>>218754837Ok
>>218742621Idk Epicurus you could just read the book he made about why evil exists and what he's doing about it.
>>218745122>CalvinistDon't care
>>218752324Why is Australia so gay and retarded? There doesn't have to be a why, it simply is so
>>218754836>who obviously was told what to say beforehand?Told by whom? Complete strangers living thousands of kilometres away, separated by language barriers?>If this is all christians got, I can understand why their religion is dying.For North American and European cases, the things the children said were initially disregarded by their parents, most of whom don't believe in reincarnation.
>>218754868>read the book he made about why evil exists and what he's doing about it.How does the Bible answer Epicurus?>>218754856>>218754836Also, for near death experiences, doctors have publishes research about them in medical journals such as the Lancet. https://youtube.com/watch?v=NVsBFOB7H44&pp=ygUOcGltIHZhbiBsb21tZWw%3D
>>218754936Idk Britbong maybe you should read it
>>218754957Do you even know yourself?
>>218754675ive come to the conclusion that this world is not:>a prison/loosh farm>a school/training facilityit is simply>an addictionthe ineffable bliss of eternity in communion with the source is a desperate horror to a conscious soul. it's not good for us to come into mortal existence, it sucks. but it's intense, and you forget all the ineffable shit for a while. same way you get drunk as shit to forget your mortal problems, you come to the mortal plane to forget your astral problems.
How are healthy farts supposed to smell like?
>>218755014It could be that evil ultimately does serve to enact God's plan. If there was no evil in the world, there would be no free will. God trusts us not to be evil.
>>218755122>If there was no evil in the world, there would be no free will1. Is there free will in heaven?2. Is there evil in heaven?
>>2187551811. sort of. there is no sinning in heaven2. No
>>218755363>sort of. there is no sinning in heavenWhy is there no sinning in heaven?>2. NoI thought you said evil was a consequence of free will? If free will can exist without evil in heaven, then why not also in this universe?
>>218755482I'm not a priest or anything, I don't know if I can give you any good answer. >why is there no sinning in heaven?only souls free from sin are allowed in heaven, otherwise they are purified from sin in Purgatory or condemned to hell>I thought you said evil was a consequence of free will? If free will can exist without evil in heaven, then why not also in this universe?Since Satan betrayed God in Heaven, I suppose evil can exist in Heaven, but it isn't there now.
>>218755607I'm going to get into heaven through grace and the sacrifice of christ, then turn tail and betray god by reintroducing sin. What do you make of this
>>218755700i think you should try breeding goliath frogs in captivity instead. It hasnt been done yet and I think it'd be great for conservation if you could do that thanks
>>218742621Epicurus is basically asking why God doesn't just play the Sims. The answer is that God desires the free will of his autonomous creations, so that they may freely love him. In order to be a truly "all-loving" God, God must always have had a second and distinct aspect to himself to share love with. Christians call this second aspect his son, and profess in their creed that God and his son have eternally loved each other, and that the aspect of sharing in this same spirit is the third aspect of God, called the Holy Spirit. These three distinct aspects they call the Trinity or what comprises the substance of Godhood. >>218749855>If you want to go farther, an omniscient God would know everything about himself, including what he would do in the future from the instant time began. Spiritual experience is not a series of successive changes like you've extrapolated. You are of physical material and live in time, and to be in time means to change. The spirit, including yours, exists outside of time and is eternal. >If anything he'd lose any sense of temporalityThere is no temporality to the celestial. If it helps by dint of analogy, imagine an author writing a book. The author exists outside of the timeline of the story and its characters. Now imagine if these characters made their own decisions. That is sort of like what we are doing now. We are autonomous characters in a divine comedy that, with every choice we make, can change our spiritual substance into something more resembling a saint or a grinch.
>>218755607>only souls free from sin are allowed in heavenWhat does free from sin mean? Those who have never ever sinned before?>purified from sin in PurgatoryWhat does this mean? >condemned to hellThat's evil, why would God give beings free will and then punish them for using that free will? Why would God create beings who he know before creating them would end up in hell?
>>218755777>The answer is that God desires the free will of his autonomous creations, so that they may freely love him.Refer to >>218755181
>>218755805Yes there is free will in heaven. That's the point. No there is no evil in heaven, that's the point.
>>218755779This is all really complicated stuff that involves degrees of sins. There are venial sins, minor sins like nonviolent crimes that don't condemn you to hell and can be forgiven. There are also mortal sins like murder that would condemn you to hell if you were to die in a state of living in sin. However, through God's grace you can be saved. >That's evil, why would God give beings free will and then punish them for using that free will? Why would God create beings who he know before creating them would end up in hell?cougghs and sneezes on you
>>218755726I'm going to breed david frogs, then release them into the wild and make the goliath frogs go extinct. What do you make of this
>>218755888makes me smile bc thats funny
>>218755846If free will can exist in heaven without evil, then why not in this universe?>>218755849Why does God allow murder to happen? Wouldn't God indirectly a particpant in murder if He knows that it will happen, He is able to stop it, but yet He doesn't?
>>218742621He is able but not willing. That doesn't make him malevolent because evil is needed for good to exist. >>218747055If by death he is guaranteed a place in heaven and liberation from the torment known as life then he is the best parent ever
>>218755943*indirectly be a participant
>>218755779>hellThis specific made up thing is the cause of most of the consternation. It's simply a "final death". Think of it like a soul breeding program, spiritual eugenics. The concept is to breed an immense pool of candidate souls, put them through a selection process, keep the ones who pass and discard the ones that do not. The eternal torture shit is not even in the book.
>>218755943He allowed his own son to be murdered so that our sins might be forgiven. But does that mean he murdered his own son, if he could have stopped it?
>>218755998 #>The concept is to breed an immense pool of candidate souls, put them through a selection process, keep the ones who pass and discard the ones that do not.Still doesn't make sense. God is the perfect creator, He doesn't need to trial and error anything. He can make Humans as He pleases, with 100% success rates, no need for a selection process. Whatever separates evil people from good people, He could make all evil people into more good people.>>218756090 #If I witness your murder, when I could have stopped it with no danger or cost to myself, but I did nothing to stop it, wouldn't I share the guilt in your murder?
>>218755954>evil is needed for good to exist.Then does evil exist in heaven?
>>218755943>If free will can exist in heaven without evil, then why not on earth Because those in heaven use their free will to be good and not evil. Sometimes on earth you have those who use their free will to do evil. I truly hope this helps clear it up because I don't know how to simplify it further.
>>218756163>perfectAnother made up concept. Just in Genesis, God exhibits>iterative workRight in the creation story: he makes adam, then makes animals as companions for adam, then when that fails to suit the task (cringe on adam's part btw) god is forced to adapt and make a woman for him. There's also the progression throughout creation of doing things one step at a time and improving on it (Good, Very Good) - why take 7 days instead of doing it all in one shot to completion on the first day? It's because that is not how it works>regretGod explicitly regrets creating humans at all when he's about to flood the world's shit and restart the operation.>having to acquire knowledge via processAbraham with his son. When he's about to sacrifice the kid, the text specifically gives that God says "now I know" you are devoted.The concept of "God" as some kind of perfect machine that is all-knowing comes from later theological "thinkers" and is not actually in the book either.
>>218756296>Because those in heaven use their free will to be good and not evil. Can they commit evil in heaven if they choose to? Will they never commit evil for all eternity in heaven? What differentiates them from those who chose to commit evil in this universe?>>218756409If God were not perfect, then would He be God?
>>218744714Why does the universe have that principle anyway. Can he not just unmake the principle of good requiring evil
>>218756409NTA but I see the Old Testament as providing context and direction for the New Testament >The concept of "God" as some kind of perfect machine that is all-knowing comes from later theological "thinkers" and is not actually in the book either.The bible itself was compiled centuries after the events for the edification of Christians >>218756466>can they be evilYes>Will they be evilNo>What differentiates them from those who chose to commit evil in this universe?Heaven is eternal and earth is temporal. Heavenly creatures are aligned with God and thus do heavenly things. On Earth, there is the choice to shape ones' self into becoming a heavenly or hellish creature by aligning yourself to God or by turning away from him. After death, those with a soul aligned to God will find him and enter his Kingdom, and those with a soul turned away from God will not find him. In modern parlance we call these respective states of spiritual being "heaven" and "hell"
>>218756466>if not perfect then why godAll a "God" has to do to qualify is be way, way better than us. Absolute "perfection" in some ideal sense isn't even close to required. Ability to operate on a scale of knowledge, power, and time far beyond humanity is sufficient.
>>218754888If your answer to that is "it simply is so" then every question asked in this thread can be answered like that.
>>218756742>Heavenly creatures are aligned with God and thus do heavenly things.Who makes them aligned with God? Can God align evil people to him? Why didn't God create everyone already aligned to him?
>>218757018>Who makes them aligned with God?Themselves. >Can God align evil people to him?Yes. >Why didn't God create everyone already aligned to him?Because then our alignment would not be of our own volition.
>>218757141>>218757141>Because then our alignment would not be of our own volition.Could God make it so that everyone voluntarily aligns to Him? If so, then why doesn't He?
>>218757244>Could God make it so that everyone voluntarily aligns to Him?No.
>>218757353If so, then He wouldn't be omnipotent.
If you look at the world god being evil makes more sense than him being good.
>>218757433If God made it so that you align to him, that by definition isn't voluntary. So he cannot make you voluntarily align to him.I'm afraid not even something omnipotent can straighten out a contradiction in terms. All the knowledge and power in the universe would do precious little to help you write a 'true fiction,' for example.
>>218757575>If God made it so that you align to him, that by definition isn't voluntary.Why can't God persuade everyone to align to Him? It should be easiest for God to persuade everyone. God knows everything about everyone's motivations and goals.
>>218742621the Bible itself is proof that god is a lieSince when does an all-powerful being need to take a break on sunday, kek
>>218757675Scripture isn't supposed to be read literally. No Church Father or early Saint thought that Genesis was literal.
>>218742621all god speak is graft. if we call them evil there is no relief in such a view. we are not liberated from the arrows of disease and destruction by cursing disease or pretending the destroyer does not exist. only in agone do we attain a higher form which gives us the elevation before death. anyone else too despondent to walk rather then crawl in thier own distended guts is merely and simply a cursed being. cursed like many to be born dead, not everyone's fiber is spun of silk or even flax. you can look at excellence as folly and delusion but it does not matter how you look through eyes made of shit. those eaten by acedia will attain nothing and never know or believe the other doctrine of action. men can make meaning of words and bend the entire world into sentences they hang thier children with forever. symbols pained on symbols on symbol and beings made mechanical like wax seals rolling thier years onto pressed clay to stamp a simple message letter by letter I LIVE AS IF ALREAYD DEAD.
>>218742621No one here but me is conscious and this is a videogame with NPCs. I am God and I decided to cut the root of evil by not making conscious beings.When one conscious being is created, the evil has already been done.
>>218742621There is no good and evil. Only God's will.
Evil is committed when a conscious being is created. That creates an ontological asymmetry which is never able to be bridged.The only moral way for a conscious being to exist is as an Eternal God.
>>218757575The question of 'aligning' is pointless. In the Christian Ontology, God should be constantly apologizing for even forcing conscious beings to be in his playground.The Christian God is an evil and irresponsible God.I am True God. I am responsible. I did not create any conscious beings. And I'd never force a conscious being to play in my games.The only moral way for a conscious being to exist, is without limitation, and without a creator who made it.
>>218757647>Why can't God persuade everyone to align to Him?It's not his judgement to make. Everyone has to make his own decisions with his own free will.
>>218757889>Everyone has to make his own decisions with his own free will.A decision taken after persuasion can sitll be made of one's own free will. God being good should seek to stop all evil actions from occurring, and he can do so by persuading would-be evil-doers NOT to commit evil.
>Pray to a tree or rock (for lottery luck, they cannot comprehend what Epicurus's logic)>Burn more paper money to ancestors (inflation is a bitch)>Join multiple religions (just in case)
>>218757917>God being good should seek to stop all evil actions from occurring, and he can do so by persuading would-be evil-doers NOT to commit evil.After all this, you make his own case for him. God wants the decision to be persuaded to be made of your own free will. To be unwillingly persuaded (coerced) would not serve.
>>218758193NTA,None of this is worth conscious beings suffering. In Christian Ontology, God makes conscious beings with fallible faculties and forces them to play in his story.It's grotesque.
>>218758193>God wants the decision to be persuaded to be made of your own free will.God can respect someone's free will while persuading them to not do evil. Are your teachers violating your free will be telling you not to litter?
>>218758228>NTA,Well as a matter of course, Chuckles. I can see you're not posting with a Union Jack. >>218758241>God can respect someone's free will while persuading them to not do evil.Right on. It falls on that someone to accept the persuasion. >Are your teachers violating your free will be telling you not to litter?No, a teacher is not violating my free will to attempt to persuade me not to litter. If I choose not to accept his persuasion, and will myself to litter, then the teacher could judge that I've failed him.It's 10:30PM over here, I imagine it's way later for you right now. I'm going to go to bed.
>>218758483>It falls on that someone to accept the persuasion.Yes, but God doesn't even try to persuad evil people not to commit evil in almost all cases. Good night.
>>218758523He did and people crucified Him.
>>218758572That was nearly 2,000 years ago, what I had in mind was God conversing with evil people and convincing the, not to do evil. Just as God spoke to Moses, He could speak to every evil person and persuade them not to commit evil before they ever commit evil.
