How did Brahmins manage to expand their rule and Hinduism to Dravidia? Did Indo-Aryans rule over Dravidia at some point without language replacement like in the north?
>>220720626weren't dravidians already hindu? and aryans just adopted the whole thing
>>220720626>>220720688Modern Hinduism is a mix of Vedic stuff and indigenous village stuff.
>>220720688Didn't Hinduism develop from Indo-Aryan religion?
>>220722446Partly but it's silly to think there wasn't any syncrentism.
In 900 AD, Brahmins were kicked out of north and eastern India from buddhist influence so they migrated to south, especially Tamil Nadu and Kerala, both were ruled by tamil kings - Chera and Chola & PandyasBoth cheras and cholas wanted to bolster their country's might so they agreed to follow brahminic rituals and caste heirarchy where they become kshatriya tied to various solar and moon dynasties.Before this, south India followed native dravidian religion, which brahmins sanskritized, kannagi became parvati, civan became shiva, mayon became Vishnu, murugan became Subramanian etc. These native dravidian beliefs still exist btw.Cheras overly trusted brahmins and gave them administrative positions and gave them rights over tax collection (which will later backfire on them)Cholas didnt like when brahmins were placed on top of kshatriyas, the kings, as cholas were imperialists and wanted god like king status. So they used to punish and abuse brahmins occasionaly (which even reflects today in Tamil Nadu)All 3 tamil kings used to fight each other for no reason. Chera chola war will make the last chera king abdicate the throne and leave to become muslim and give everything to the brahmins (the dark age of kerala) Both the states Tamil Nadu and Kerala are extremely anti hindutva and anti brahmin pro dravidian states now as both of them have huge anti brahmin culture
Inviting dravidians into your country is like eating poison
>>220723249So the kings of Dravidia brought Brahmins to the south so they could hierarchize the local religion to their advantage? Who ended up becoming the Dalits?I suppose the Brahmins that took refuge in the south eventually made a triumphant return to the north after Buddhism weakened. >(which will later backfire on them)>and give everything to the brahmins (the dark age of kerala) What happened? How did Kerala stop being Tamil?>Both the states Tamil Nadu and Kerala are extremely anti hindutva and anti brahmin pro dravidian states now as both of them have huge anti brahmin cultureHow strong is casteism there?
>>220720688HOLY FUCKING COW SHITSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARAAAAA.AAAAA.AAAA.AAAAA.AAAAA.AAAA.AAAARSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARAAAAA.AAAAA.AAAA.AAAAA.AAAAA.AAAA.AAAAR
>>220723670>So the kings of Dravidia brought Brahmins to the south so they could hierarchize the local religion to their advantage?It was not just religion, dravidians already have their religion. They wanted to bolster their country economically.Brahmins were invited by dravidian kings to bolster their kingdoms. Dravidian kings also invited buddhism and jainism, judaism, christianity and islam was well respected as well and ocassionally chera kings had jain and buddhist followers. Cheras invited Brahmins so that chera land (Present day Kerala) can have reliable administrators which cheras lacked due to constant chola wars and invasions as brahmins were considered smart and educatedCholas invited brahmins for political consolidation so they can stop being considered local chieftains to "divine" monarchs and have god like status. They didnt heirarchize in traditional sense as the entire power still was with the king, the king simply will never let a meek brahmin be on top of him. So the heirarchy was something like thisThe ruling class and brahmins on top, rest peasants on bottom.Dravidians are still clan based not caste based so the south India was still exclusive and free for all communities >What happened? How did Kerala stop being Tamil?Chera kings overly trusted brahmins and provided brahma danam (land donations) to brahmins, so during the chera chola wars, chera king lost and had to abdicate the throne.In 12th CE, The last Chera king left to Mecca, fracturing kerala into small temple based fragmented feudal estates which was under tight brahmin rule and establishment of caste based heirarchy, ending the chera rule from 300 BCE to 12th CE Cheras were already divided by western ghats mountain range so chola country spoke tamil, Cheras spoke malaitamil, which later became sanskritized to malayalam.>How strong is casteism there?Very less compared to say north, ocassional caste strifes happen in some bumpfuck village but thats it
>>220725423>They wanted to bolster their country economically.So it was more to encourage travelers from the north to come trade south? I think that's how the first mosques were built in the south as well.>so they can stop being considered local chieftains to "divine" monarchs and have god like status. Wouldn't this imply that Brahmins already had a preeminent status among Dravidians before they were invited by the kings? Did Dravidian religion not have its own priests?>Dravidians are still clan based not caste based so the south India was still exclusive and free for all communities Interesting. >Cheras were already divided by western ghats mountain range so chola country spoke tamil, Cheras spoke malaitamil, which later became sanskritized to malayalam.I didn't know Malayalam was so closely related to Tamil desu. I wonder if there's any rivalry now between Tamils and Malayalis. >Very less compared to say north,Is that why people say southern India is more developed?
>>220725423>Dravidians are still clan based not castehahahaha d-stock cope
>>220725734>I think that's how the first mosques were built in the south as wellChera country is modern day Kerala, a south western part of India, who extensively traded with middle east. Cheras are the reason India got the name for spices and countless nations waged war and died for it. Trading with the middle east means settlement with arabs, jews christian merchants so first mosque was not from north but by arabs themselves who settled here. Chera kings were extremely tolerant to outsiders and allowed people to practice their faith openly and tax free.>Wouldn't this imply that Brahmins already had a preeminent status among Dravidians before they were invited by the kings? Did Dravidian religion not have its own priests?Sort of, dravidian kings thought brahmins were educated in economics and divinly things, which is a memeDravidian religion is basically nature worship without any caste bullshitEach clans worship their dravidian deities still today. >I didn't know Malayalam was so closely related to Tamil desu. I wonder if there's any rivalry now between Tamils and Malayalis.Malayalis are just tamils in the other side of western ghats, there is not much rivalry, we agree on most things. Malayalam is just tamil with borrowed sanskrit words>Very less compared to say north,Is that why people say southern India is more developedThere are many reasons but eventually we dont follow the brahminical religion which north follows heavily. Since we have a strong dravidian tamil identity for a long time
>>220727986>so first mosque was not from north but by arabs themselves who settled here.I've seen pics of early mosques in South India and they look very different from the early mosques in Pakistan or northern India. Those look more Middle Eastern while the ones in southern India look like normal buildings with local architecture and don't have domes or arches or minarets.>Each clans worship their dravidian deities still today. Was there ever any movement to rid Dravidia from Brahmanic influences like with the Pure Tamil Movement regarding language?>Malayalam is just tamil with borrowed sanskrit wordsCan Tamils understand Malayalam?Since you are Tamil what do you think of other Dravidian peoples like Kannada or Telugus? Seems like Tamils are the most ancient and sophisticated among the Dravidians desu.
>>220720626Come to /bharat/ brother, you're threads are way too far fetched from reality and laughable
>>220720688>>220722446Modern Hinduism is a mix of Indo-Aryan and Dravidian stuff. It's why Indo-Aryan big dog Indra got put through several humiliations by gods like Krishna and is now in a weird place where he's the "king of heaven" but not really that important at all.
>>220728517Christianity arrived here in 54 AD, Islam here in 650 AD, so both of their earliest churches and mosques look similar to keralian architecture>Was there ever any movement to rid Dravidia from Brahmanic influences like with the Pure Tamil Movement regarding language?There wasnt any strong influence like in the north as South Indians maintained their strong dravidian identity but there was plenty of instances in modern era After independence north govt pushed hindi on tamils which triggered tamils and there was a rift thereSelf respect movement of EV Periyar which pushed brahmins out of tamil temples and gave priesthood to every caste and community Usuage of tamil instead of sanskritTamils kicked out brahmins and increased reservation for other communities.The same thing in kerala after plenty of rebellions and clashes with upper castes, the land they had was all seized from them and gaven to the tiller>Kannada and teluguKannada is a war like people and has plenty of empires and kingdoms that people remember and praise. Tipu Sultan is one, then there is Pulikeshin.Telugu people has the best muslim culture since they had the longest turkic rule, Andras on the other hand are quite illiterate and backwards, the most illiterate in south.
>>220720626The word Dravidian comes from a sanskrit word Dravida, root of which is Drav.The whole crap about muh dravidian culture is just that - crap, truth is there was and is no such thing, Brahmins actually standardised these southern languages and created grammar for them, before that these were nothing but spoken ooga boggas.>>220723249>>220723249>900 AD, Brahmins were kicked out of north and eastern India from buddhist influenceWhat sort of garbage Lemurian BS is this lmao, are you drunk dumeel abbo?LMFAO, Chuddhism was already dead in 4th-6th century.Brahmins were already the ruling class in most of the south even before Christ lmao, the Satvahan Dynasty were Brahmins.There was no Lemuria, never will be, the temples in south attest this, people in south were and still are Hindus, Betiyar suckers can COPE.As for muh culture, thr dominant culture in kerala today is to become toilet cleaner in gulf states, in TN it is to worship ugly film stars.
>>220723670>I suppose the Brahmins that took refuge in the south eventually made a triumphant return to the north after Buddhism weakened.I wish lolRight after last buddhist empire, palas ended in 12th CE, what came next was turkic warriors. Soon bengal became muslim. The already marginalized brahmins and their kshatriyas had to flee even more further to the mountains and to Nepal, some to the south as well. Bihar had the most important muslim rulers like Sher Shah Suri who redevelops India again after the death of Mauryan King Ashoka
>>220733988kek Periyar used to call Tamil, the langugae of barbarians, no matter how much you turds COPE, truth in all these BS ooga bogga southern languages were standardised by Brahmins, your suckers spent decades "de sanskritisizing" your language in vain, because the whole grammar was created based on Sanskrit.
>>220734380Brahmins newer Left North retard, they did migrate to South long ago though, Buddhism was dead in north even before Islamic conquests (didn't happen until around 12th century AD)
>>220734366>There was no Lemuria, never will beJeetcope. My great great great great great great great great great great grandfather's boyfriend was from there.
>>220734366
>>220734524my ancestors are from lumeria also
>>220734380>The Palas patronised several Sanskrit scholars, some of whom were their officials>Madanapala's queen Chitramatika, gifted land to a brahmana named Vateshvara-svami Sharma as his remuneration for reciting the Mahabharata>Nayapala's Siyan inscription suggests that he built several temples dedicated to Shiva and his various aspects (such as Bhairava), plus temples dedicated to the Nine Durgas, the Mother Goddess, Vishnu, and Lakshmi.yaar abbo, Brahmins were present in courts of both Mauryans and Palas, A Brahmin named Chanakya literally helped establish the Mauryan Empire kekBrahmins continued to Dominate Courts even under Delhi Sultans and Mughals, guess who was established as king of Delhi by Sher Shah Suri - King Hemchandra was a Brahmin.As for Ashoka he was a Cruel king, even Buddhist texts say this, his war excesses and imperialism led to huge revolts and ultimate collapse of a short lived "empire".
>>220734530kek, maybe Dumeels should just learn Hindi an call it a day, nobody cares if Dinosaurs spoke it, All north Indias from west, north and even east speak hindi, fuck arunachal pradesh mongloids learnt it, these abbos aren't special.>>220734609All of this BS is unronically result deep seated inferiority complex in tamils, truth is they were ruled by Telugus for far too long, Telugus were fairer too.The whole seethe against "northerners" results from this.
>>220723670>>220725734>>220728517madarchod stop taking the words of a schizo retard on 4chan like the gospel
>>220723670Don't listen to this retard essayjeet. Casteism is extremely strong in Tamil Nadu, Brahmins just don't participate in it as a politically relevant force like they do in the north.In any city other than maybe the nice parts of Chennai, there is blatant caste snobbery as soon as you move beyond the areas where it's explicitly forbidden by law (e.g. in temples). Most of India is still rural and in those regions of TN, casteism is rampant. There's been very recent movies made about the struggle of scheduled castes in TN for equal rights.
>>220723670Don't listen to this retard essayjeet. Casteism is extremely strong in Tamil Nadu, Brahmins just don't participate in it as a politically relevant force like they do in the north.In any city other than maybe the nice parts of Chennai, there is blatant caste snobbery as soon as you move beyond the areas where it's explicitly forbidden by law (e.g. in temples). Most of India is still rural and in those regions of TN, casteism is rampant. There's been very recent movies made about the struggle of scheduled castes in TN for equal rights.Kerala is even worse. They are extremely bigoted within the Hindu community despite being supposedly leftist, and Muslims have basically taken over significant parts of the state in record numbers with Gulf expat money (counts for a lot in a state that would collapse without remissions from the Gulf)
>>220734634>A Brahmin named Chanakya literally helped establish the Mauryan EmpireThis is fanfiction. Chanakya never existence in reality.
>Buddhist, Jain, and Hindu texts all mention Chanakya>but commie historians said he's not real saar
It smells like cow dung in here
>>220735204>Buddhist, Jain, and Hindu textsAll fanfiction written by Poomins.
>>220735319If it smells so bad get out of the gutter then, Dalitesh
>>220735115>>220735204>>220735397COPE, your abbo language's grammar was created by Brahmins too, stop speaking it.>>220735401Bathing is Brahminical Fan Fiction saar, real mooniggasis fester in sewer water.
>>220735511Why is this bimaroo street shitter upset at the mere mention of the fact that Chanakya is fanfiction? Are you really that invested in that fanfic?
>>220735598>fanficSo are most stories of Dalit oppression, Chamarudeen
>>220735598Go and take a bath dalitesh, the only fanfic here is your lemurian BS.
>>220735679>>220735708But pajeet. It's the truth, you can call me whatever you want but it won't change the fact Chanakya is a gangu brahcuck fantasy inserted into Indian history to inflate their relevance to it.
>>220735830Bracucks are averse to truth and history. They kept on using myths as history and pushed various stupid narratives to establish their authority like parashuram and chanakya, then purusha suktaThe discovery of IVC proved that India had a high civilization before the composition of the Rig Veda. This shocked the traditional establishment because the Vedic texts—the foundation of Brahminical authority—made no clear mention of the great brick cities of the Indus.
>>220735830>>220737505Indus Valley was ruled by a Priest, not a chamar
>>220737505I wonder if in a few hundred years they'll take credit for Google and Microsoft because some of them were CEOs there, kek. Thank god for written history.
>>220737536There is no "Priest King" pajeet, that was simple added by british in 1920s. IVC was one of the most egalitarian civilisations. And IVC has literally nothing to do with bracucks as bracucks were result of steppe migrants that arrived after thousands of years after the collapse of IVC
>>220737653lolEarly Vedic and late IVC periods are around 500 years apart, not thousands of years>>220737505>>220737653>they don't mention brick cities1. they're not history books2. the civilisation was dead>>220737605>Thank god for written history.something dalits don't have
>>220737605We actually see a version of this happening now. There is often a lot of pride in the "Indian CEO"Brahmins enroach upon every cities, kingdoms, empires and companies and push their narrativesJust as the Vedas were once the "exclusive" technology of the priestly class, the algorithms of today could be mythologized as "sacred codes" that only a specific ""pajeet brahmin"" class could understand or "summon."
>>220737733>something dalits don't haveNeither did anyone in India before muslims and europeans arrived. The art of writing down history was brought to the subcontinent by Muslims and then properly by the Europeans. There's not a single work of history written by Hindus prior to that.
>>220737816google them, dalitesh, they existed even before your jewsus was bornyour abraham muslim massas burned down most of them
>>220737864>your abraham muslim massas burned down most of themOh yeah sure lmao.
>>220720626Brahmins are probably, at least spiritually if not genetically, descended from earlier religions that used their influence to legitimise the rule of the aryansBrhaminism is very different from all other indo-european traditions
>>220723249>The Chola Empire (Tamil: [t͡ʃoːɻɐɾ, soːɻɐɾ]), which is often referred to as the Imperial Cholas,[2] was a medieval thalassocratic empire based in southern India that was ruled by the Chola dynasty, and comprised overseas dominions, protectorates and spheres of influence in southeast Asia.I like thalassocracies so muchEvery country should be it. Fuck land based empires>>220723354You sure? Google tells me they're usually more developed than other parts of India.
>>220738590>they're usually more developed than other parts of India.but the people are more pajeetsmajority of bad shit you see is from them
>>220738636Wtf does that even mean
>>220738590a turd shaped like a pyramid is more developed than an unshaped turd
>>220738590>You sure? Google tells me they're usually more developed than other parts of India.Yes. Much of the seethe from "Indo-Aryans" of the north comes from the fact that these "abbos" are unironically more developed than the major Northern states. Much of the Hindi belt is poorer than Pakistan even. They're subsaharan Africa tier. They can't mentally handle this because they imagine themselves as the peers of Whites and East Asians but have to migrate en masse to the southern states and western states.
I love these threads. You get to see how Indians act with each other when foreigners aren't saying much.Don't mind me. Please continue and pretend I don't exist.
>>220739871I loved HK moviesmake more of them
