It’s genuinely insane to imagine how much cultural diversity we were robbed of in the modern day by Spain conquering the Americas and turning them into a bunch of interchangeable copy paste not-Spains
>>221180702It is what it is.T.spic
You can say this for literally every western european country.I guess imperialism did occasionally create new cultures from mixing so some diversity was added back but not enough to make up for what was lost.
or what the english didor the portuguesewhy target the spanish in particular?
If it wasn't us it would have been someone else. Those niggas were doomed. It is what it is
>>221180702
>>221180702Very little of value was lost.They incorporated the good thing (food) about Aztec/Incas
>>221180749The Mayans, Incans, and Aztecs were cool. Nobody gives a fuck about the rest
Zoodacas are just retarded. Mexican culture progressed just fine to the point we became our own thing
>>221180702mexico is more distinct and better than spain.it has better musicbetter foodbetter 'white' womenbasically it's better than spain because of Bavarian (actual white people, spaniards are muslims) influence
>>221180702it wasn't really the spanish though it was the smallpox they carried with them
>>221180814That's just cope because you don't have a Spain
>>221180860If the Spanish had just traded the natives would have still been devastated but able to recover and retain their culture and states
>>221180702That's a child you sick fuck!
>>221180900>
>>221180702At least the spaniards were way more succesful with it. Latin america is just spain but poor, meanwhile india and africa are idk wtf it is.
>>221180808I will start making threads about how Anglo-Americans deprived us of Iroquois/Algonquin/Seminole/Apache cultures.
>>221181074>Seminole/ApacheSpain tried to kill these two too.
>>221181074Make sure to include a hot girl in your post image otherwise I shan’t be reading them
>>221181074everywhere where anglos touched, has seen great success. everywhere where spaniards touched has been a shithole.
>>221181074>IroquoisTrue>AlgonquinAlways irrelevant>SeminoleAlways irrelevant>ApacheTheir culture (language/religion) still exists
>>221181173
>>221181044India and Africa were protectorates more than actual colonies. Spain actually settled and intermixed with the natives. In Africa that only really happened in a handful of places most notably South Africa and Rhodesia which were pretty successful until the end of white european rule.
>>221180808Native North Americans were cool too, fuck you.
>>221181173in general your successes were where you exterminated and mostly replaced the natives, otherwise you get stuff like India, Zimbabwe or South AfricaSpain mostly integrated the native population, with mixed results, didn't have colonies as such
>>221181329Name one cool thing about them
>>221181329they were a bunch of hunter-gatherers that didnt have permanent settlements. There wasnt a civilization to lose
lowiqoqouis
>>221180702Columbus won. You lost.
>>221180749Because the OP is a resentful Mexican. Sorry for the pleonasm.
>>221180702>tfw you spend hours reading on afro-eurasia and and the different ethnic and cultural groups who have adapted and grown in their land for thousands of years and how they grade into each until it turns into a new cultural sphere>every name has a history, every lake and mountains has legend>buildings and ruins from past eras dotting the landscape and prefiguring current cultural forms>tfw you read about the americas>nothing of interest, there's nothing old, everything is a cheap copy of european or african cultures>mutts with no history who don't know where they came from or who've been in the continent for 150+ years tops >everything is the same 3 or 4 european languages that are themselves extremely alike >town, city, mountain, lake, river, country names transplanted from europe with no real meaning or background just randomly slapped onto the land this is made all the more horrible because in mexico and certain other places like peru you can see the vestiges of the old world that was and now it's been replaced by generic mongrels. and then it's made doubly horrible knowing people here had actual writing and spanish monkeys burned their books because they were offensive to the jew god.
>>221180702We were also robbed from cultural diversity when franks and other templar knights came to do the reconquista.Now Portugal and Spain are just generic copies of Italy.Many such cases
>>221182416>>town, city, mountain, lake, river, country names transplanted from europe with no real meaning or background just randomly slapped onto the landEven more hilarious is places having names of native origin but that weren't actually used by the locals and were only used by the spaniards who overheard some words and mispronounced them completely as well. It's like this for most things with a native name
>>221180702the two biggest colonizer powers, eurangutans and gayrabs robbed us of multiple rich cultures all around the world
>>221180702>It’s genuinely insane to imagine how much cultural diversity we were robbed of in the modern day by Britain conquering the Americas and turning them into a bunch of interchangeable copy paste not-Britain
>>221182416>and then it's made doubly horrible knowing people here had actual writing and spanish monkeys burned their booksThat was fucking stupid, I'll give you that
>>221180702Ultimately its all kind of a wash, Anon. We know exactly what it looks like when the New World is conquered by white people with a future and civilized behavior, it was called America. Now its increasingly brown and retarded so it really doesn't seem to have made any difference that we didn't start as part of Spainlandia (Except for Florida)
>>221182950>Except for Floridaanon...
>>22118314910,000 starving Mexicans does not a nation make, Anon, and those were Mexicans, not Spanish settlers. Also, Ceded in Perpetuity means forever, it is not now nor will it ever be again a territory of brownlandia.No, Mexicans are not Spaniards. Spain is still brown but it is not as brown as Mexico, in the same way that Canada is still white but it will never be as successful as America. Canada is not America and Mexico is not Spain just because they share a skin color and some anglo/spic genes respectively.
>>221180702the cultural diversity of latin america exists thanks to Spain if anything, everything of value of the local amerindians in each region was incorporated and mixed with the Spanish, the stuff the amerindians themseleves recognized as inferior vs what the Spanish brought was simply left behind by themselvesAll amerindian languages that still exist today are thanks to Spains preserving them since amerindians themselves wouldn't, the moment latin countries got their independence they started genociding amerindians and using them as cannon fodders for wars btw, ask Benito Juarez, nothing is more racist against a brown person than another brown
>>221180702The gulf arabs did the same to North Africa and Middle East and beyond, Ugh so much cultures and faiths gone forever.
>>221183267Christ get a life you fucking stupid seething mutt Spain is not brown and never will be kys
>>221180797Least retarded and ignorant burger:
>>221180749because his own country was established on genocide and settler colonialism
Mesoamerican history anon here, ask me anything>>221180808>>221181960This is a dumb take for many reasons.Firstly, the Aztec and Maya are not the only Mesoamerican civilization, and the Inca are not the only Andean civilization. There are dozens of others in both regions (the Olmec, Caral-Supe, Capacha, Chavin, Zapotec, Paracas, Epi-Olmec, Recuay, Teotihuacan, Moche, Teuchtitlán, Wari/Huari, Classic Veracruz, Tiwanku, "Toltec" (if they existed), Sican, Chancay, Mixtec, Totonac, Chachapoya, Purepecha, Chimu, Otomi, etc) that share most of the traits the Aztec and Maya, and that the Inca have respectively. You might as well be saying "Only Britain, Germany, and Japan are cool", while ignoring the rest of Europe and Asia.Next, even other parts of the Americas which did not have the same huge urbanized civilizations like Mesoamerica and the Andes had some degree of complex societies and cool architecture: Contrary to what >>221182033 says, The Eastern US has a long history of societies that built large earthen mounds and towns around them, like Poverty Point, the Adena, Hopewell, Mississippians, the Natchez etc, while the Southwest US has the various Oasisamerican cultures and their cliff towns like the Pueblo, Hohokam, Salado, Mogollon etc, and similar "Semi-complex" societies existed all over Central America, South America (look at recent LIDAR finds in the Amazon), and so on.Even entirely non-urban still did cool shit: The Haida and Tlingit in the Pacific Northwest made awesome art and cool wooden suits of armor, for instance.>>221180860>>221180924Spanish military campaigns, displacement and enslavement of local populations etc exacerbated the impact of diseases, and obviously they also destroyed Prehispanic historical records, art etc. But in some cases their rule was hands off (at least initially), they did also record new histories, and invested in local infrastructure and other things. It's complicated, like a lot of things in history1/?
>>221180702Kill yourself Monersimp
>>221185791What we're other Europeans nations view of Spanish/Portuguese actions? Did they find it blunt & barbaric?
>>221185942Also to add on, out of the two were the Spanish or Portuguese more brutal?
>>221185791Based mesoenjoyer. How would you go about making Native cultures cool again? Here a lot of federal funds go to advertising First Nation cultures but it's not very effective I think + our history classes suck. If the Hudson's Bay in downtown Montreal was converted into a Cree museum it would be fucking sick but it's the only tangible thing that comes to mind.
>>221185791Cont:>>221180797The Spanish Conquistadors and friars who actually colonized Prehispanic civilizations disagree with you, see pic: The Spanish (or at least some of them) constantly praised Mesoamerican (and some Andean, but that's not my area so I haven't dug into those quotes as much) art, architecture, cities, systems of law and order, governance, etc. Even some Italian and German authors of the time did so, note the quote in pic related by the famous German artist Albrecht Durer.Also Spanish Conquistadors in Mexico in the early 16th century didn't use Morion helmets like that, and the Aztec didn't wear big feather headdresses like that unless in very specific ritual contexts. That specific style of headdress was also curved like a Plains Indian war bonnet originally, it's only flat today due to a botched restoration (confusingly tho there were also flat ones used as war-banners rather then as headdresses)>>221183367No, there's definitely things that both the Indigenous population and the Spanish saw as valuable that was nonetheless stamped out, persecuted, or abandoned over time. Many of the people quoted in pic related for example lament that other friars were being overly-zealous with burning Mesoamerican books and manuscripts, or the loss of Prehispanic schooling systems (as seen in the quotes), and other practices, artwork, etc. The idea that the Spanish preserved Indigenous languages is also iffy, at some points they favored making things like Nahuatl the official language of New Spain, later/at other points they worked to replace it with Spanish, though it's true that some of the greatest periods of linguistic loss was during the 20th century, long after Spanish rule ended.>>221185942>>221185958No clue, I'm into Mesoamerican history and archeology, not European colonialism, which I really only read up on tangentially. I haven't come across quotes (that I can remember anyways) of other Europeans commenting on that2/3
>>221180749Are you new here? It's another chikaner thread.
>>221186121ah ok thanks. I saw your post on book recommendations so thanks!
>>221180702she cute
>>221181960Lacrosse?
>>221185942The conquest of Mexico and Peru roughly coincided with the rise of Protestantism and the wars of religion, so Protestant nations had plenty of reasons to criticize the actions of the Great Catholic powers. A lot of it was perfectly valid (and sometimes based on debates inside Spain itself regarding the brutality of conquistadors), but some of it can be taken as unavoidable animosity towards the ideological enemy or even sour grapes. News like the conquest of the majestic Tenochtitlan, the huge ransom Atahualpa paid, or the discovery of the largest silver deposit in the world in Potosi were certainly received with envy.
>>221186121Cont:>>221180782>>221184134As I said in >>221186121, neither the Conquistadors nor the Aztec really looked like this. The temple in the back is also Maya, not Aztec, and Mesoamerican architecture had plaster/stucco and paint over the stonework in their heyday>>221186102Well I'm not indigenous or anything, but my mind jumps to (obviously) more funding for archeology and cultural heritage efforts, alongside somehow fostering more neo/revivalist architectural styles for buildings and public monuments. Debates over Sports mascots seems like kinda a "10 years ago" issue now, but I would have liked to have seen shit like Sports Teams with Indigenous themed mascots, instead of rebranding, to partner with some of those groups and nations and have it be a mutual opportunity for fundraising, education, outreach. Having educators within those communities working with history and archeology Youtubers to put out videos focusing on their culture would be a good option, I think, and this is maybe more selfish since I am really passionate about Open Access and Creative Commons/Public Domain shit, but having them also releasing photos, 3d scans etc of artifacts and monuments online, hosting contests for people to use them in art etc to built attention and interest, and so on3/3 for now, waiting for more questions
>>221180702Nobody gives a shit about diversity of tribal simpletons. They still exist in Papua New Guinea and some places in Africa and the Amazon. The only diversity is the language their cultures are all hunter gatherer ooga booga same shit.
If Rome hadn't fallen to the forces that be, the global cultural spread would have looked a lot more different instead of homogeneous but slightly more shitty version of the same 2 things everywhere
>>221180702>complains about mixing>posts a mixed girlay ay ay anon
>>221187364unrelated
>>221180702It's a little debatable. The locals reveled in conquest themselves.
The Mexican stereotype can be romanticized to an extent but they don't like the drawbacks of looking "lazy" in Mexico while working in North America. Essentially, the whole "Mexico is cool" vibe is immediately robbed when they're in NA. I guess that would explain why tourists reflect poorly on other countries. The host/guest dynamic should be equal.
>>221180702leftoids will say this then be completely in support of globohomo
>>221186697>waiting for more questionsWhy did Spaniards impregnate native women more than other colonizers in their respective colonies? Driven by religion or a sense of superiority?
>>221181074just generic primitivesnothing interesting or redeemingno civilisation
>>221186697Great suggestions. I'll read more into tomorrow thx anon>>221187769You don't even live here you fucking goof. We lost some kino aesthetics and languages just for every other town to be named King this and Queen that
>>221187814in the modern era much more has been lost and from great civilisations too. more than material culture: tradition and worldview, to be replaced with another, confining humanity's range of potential in thought and idea to one lineage. what you lament is a minor point you mainly care about it to increase your 'diversity' points in a warped nationalistic sense. for example, the loss of chinese traditions and thought in the modern era is a much bigger loss than the whole americas.
>>221187328See>>221186121The Spanish gave a shit, and the Mesoamericans and the Andeans weren't "tribal", they had urban cities, formal governments, etc, which, again, even the Spanish praised and respected, directly comparing them to the Greeks and Romans.>>221187512Again, my area is more Prehispanic Mesoamerica then European colonization, so I can't give you an depth analysis of Spanish worldview and ideology and how it played into intermarrying with local populations, but part of it simply could have been a matter of population density and the amount of local people aroundMesoamerica was very densely populated: What was considered a small, medium, or large settlement by Spanish and Aztec standards was mostly similar (see pic), and by many estimates the Aztec Empire was almost as, as, or more densely populated then Spain itself was at the time. Hell, there's a recent study which found that Classic Maya Civilization may have been more densely populated then Italy during the height of the Romans, which DESU seems like a stretch to me but even my friend who specializes in population estimates and tends to favor lower end estimates for Mesoamerican populations (so like their view prior to reading this study was that there would be ~14 million people for the whole region, as of Spanish contact), said that the paper's methodology seemed soundTotal population replacement simply wasn't a feasible option, at least initially before diseases started to (literally) decimate the population, so intermarrying with existing groups might have been more unavoidable. Also, because the Mesoamericans had complex societies with nobles, rulers etc, there was some degree of status and clout to be had or retained by marrying into or with local elites, to gain favor with and over existing political institutions (though the Spanish didn't exactly honor or even view them as political marriages the same way that the Mesoamerican nobles hoped/expected...)4/5
>>221188086>>221187512cont:, and that's not to say that Indigenous nobility and royalty had equal political footing with Spanish nobles within the colonial system, only a few Mesoamerican nobles got formal titles within Spanish nobility, coat-of-arms, and married into Spanish nobility)In other parts of the Americas, while they had more going on then most people realize as I state in >>221185791, there certainly weren't as many people, even the Andes is kinda significantly less densely populated then Mesoamerica, let alone the rest of North America, so ignoring, displacing, or wiping out local populations was more of an option. And in some cases existing , semi-complex sedentary societies were ALREADY displaced or wiped out or disrupted by diseases spread by the Spanish and other early European colonists before the British, French etc even really started to colonize those areas, and there wasn't as much a need or a desire to integrate with existing rulers and nobles for similar reasonsMy other guess would be that, by the time the British, French, etc really got going with colonial efforts in North America, views around racial superiority/inferiority had already crystalized, due to/alongside the Spanish gradually tightening and increasing the divide between Spaniards and Indigenous people over the course of the 16th and 17th century, wheras in the early 16th century the Spanish were still trying to figure out if the Indigenous people in the Americas were even legally human and (paradoxically, I guess, given what I just said) you had direct encounters between Prehispanic civilizations, rulers etc in a way where the status and sophistication of Indigenous people was harder to deny (even if some did and legally stuff was unsettled), so there may have been less prejudice, at least in some contexts.Again, tho, Colonialism isn't my area of expertise, Prehispanic civilization is, so I could be off base. 5/5 for now
>>221181326That's a stretch. Spain was chronically underpopulated. That's why France took half of Hispaniola, Britain the Mosquito Coast, and why the Comancheria could raid as far south as Queretaro with near impunity. Spanish America was a glorified extraction colony.
>>221180702you are insane, in the bad way.
>>221187492Leftoids are really simple to understand since their world view revolves around "brown pipo good, white pipo bad". that's really all it boils down to.
>>221182416>>221182494I’m sure Mexico has many cities, towns, and lakes with local names, legends, and history.In Peru, the vast majority of cities have Amerindian names, even among the largest ones. There are few exceptions like Trujillo, unlike the case of Los Reyes, where the local name Lima prevailed, in this city the local name Chimo, although used interchangeably during the colonial period, as in Lima’s case, faded out of popularity.
>>221188086>>221187512>>221187328Whoops, forgot my image
>>221187936Damn guess we can't rebuild what was lost in the Americas cause China and other unspecified great civilisations lost their traditions and thought in the modern era. Truly we can only care to increase our 'diversity' points whatever that means
>>221180702Why do non natives pretend like they care about native americans?
>>221188086>, there's a recent study which found that Classic Maya Civilization may have been more densely populated then Italy during the height of the Romans,link to the study? i always suspected that might be the case because the maya area has so many large cities compared to other areas of mesoamerica
>>221182494>names of native origin but that weren't actually used by the locals and were only used by the spaniards who overheard some words and mispronounced them completely as wellI can't recall any place like that off the top of my head. I mean, there are cases like Lima, where the name could be pronounced very differently due to accent variation. Coastal Quechua couldn’t pronounce the r sound, so they said Lima, while in highland Quechua it would be Rima or Rimaq, depending on the variety, where q is usually a sound somewhere between an h and a k in southern varities, but in some varieties it’s an h but in northern varieties, from Ecuador and very northernmost Peru, they would pronounced Rimak, since they don’t differentiate between q and k and so on.There are also names that aren’t pronounced the way they used to be due to changes in Spanish phonology. For example, Caxamarca was originally pronounced Cashamarca.I do know of some places names (but that were used by locals) with “real” corruptions, not just slight mispronunciations, which as in Lima’s case are more nuanced than they seem. One that stands out the most is Lanasca, a provincial Inca capital and one of the most Incanized centers on Peru’s southern coast. The name continued to be used during the colonial period but was eventually altered to La Nasca (the Nazca, using the Spanish definite article) and then to Nasca. Later this town gave its name to an ancient archaeological culture, since its first remains were excavated here.
>>221188981Here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X25003219The comparsion to Roman Italy comes from this article about the paper: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2026/feb/12/apocalypse-no-how-almost-everything-we-thought-we-knew-about-the-maya-is-wrong
>>221189040merci
>>221181326>Spain actually settled and intermixed with the nativesThe worst places in latin america are the places with extremely mixed populations. Nobody is getting kidnapped and skinned alive in Peru.
>>221187391it is very much related
>>221181960>Name one cool thing about themTotem poles, patterned blankets and tents, kayaks, bow and arrow, face painting, names without consonants that have meaning, pan flutes. I think NA has done a great job conserving the native culture compared to SA who pretty much wiped the slate clean
>>221180702yeah
>>221180782only the aztecs did that and all natives hated them besides you cant talk with what you did after reconquista and to the natives
>>221190021Incorrect, sacrifice was a pan-Mesoamerican practice every civilization in the region did. Also, the Mexica of the Aztec capital also weren't actually particularly hated, at least not more then most conquerors were: They were warmongering expansionists, but they weren't generally razing their targets, and usually left existing kings, laws, and customs in place, as long as tax demands of economic goods got metHowever, this loose system left subject states with their own identity, agency, and interests, so they had both the ability and incentive to opportunistically secede, defect, etc, especially when their capital was in a weak position. You'd often see a state allying with or pledging themselves to a second state (since subjects mostly got left alone), so both could then work together to take out their capitals or rivals, and then the first state would be in a position of high status within the new kingdom/empire they helped prop up for the second stateThat's what happened with CortezThe Mexica themselves rose to power in similar circumstances, and other Mesoamerican states continued to ally with Conquistadors against their rivals decades later. Also most states who allied with Cortez only did so after Moctezuma II died and smallpox broke out, so Mexica were already vulnerable, and most of those allies were also "core" states that benefited (to a degree) from Mexica conquests, by the time they switched sides they just had less to lose & more to gain by doing so since those benefits were already jeopardized. Also, only some Aztec subjects defected to Cortes, not most, and many only switched sides after being beaten or conditionallyFor more info see pastebin.com/h18M28BR and arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/640670498/#640679139 and desuarchive.org/his/thread/16781148/#16781964 and desuarchive.org/int/thread/220614413/#220624574 and desuarchive.org/k/thread/64935126/#64961571 and a bunch of the posts in this thread desuarchive.org/k/thread/64434397/#64469714
>>221190021https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacocha
>>221180702Did you even say thanks?!
>>221187397i bet those skulls are better developed than 99% of skulls in the world today because they did not eat slave foods
>>221180782I can't find the rishi sunak version of this saying " sorry but the child rapings will stop"Assume I posted that
>>221180749Brazil, Canada and America have distinct and recognisable cultures compared to the latinxo admixture slop surrounding them.
>>221193464
>>221181173Ah yes, the great successes of India, pakistan and africa. Retarded fat blob
>>221193505I see no difference between the US and Canada beyond what exists between different states in the US or Brazil. Brazil is only an outlier because it's the only lusophone country, but Portugal is to Spain what Walles is to England had there no British Empire to unite both.
>>221193692Canada has a distinctive culture because of its mixed and preserved Anglo-Franco roots. Maybe it would be similar to the USA if they'd preserved the culture surrounding New Orleans more, but they haven't. As of such, the differences between, say, New York and Texas or California are significantly smaller than between them and Quebec.
>>221191125¿Cuantos años llevas por aquí? Siempre te veo en estos hilos.
