>What language(s) are you learning?>Ask questions about your target language!>Help people who want to learn a new language!>Participate in translation challenges or make your own!>Make frens!**Comprehensible Input Wiki**https://comprehensibleinputwiki.org/wiki/Main_PageRead the wiki:https://4chanint.miraheze.org/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_WikiUseful links:>Free language‐learning book archive:https://mega.nz/folder/INlRkAQC#CthKI9-_kmDNyrOx12Ojbw>Books on linguistics and language courses:https://mega.nz/#F!Ad8DkLoI!jj_mdUDX_ay-8D9l3-DbnQ>Assorted language resources and some nice visual guides:https://pastebin.com/ACEmVqua>Torrents with more resources than you’ll ever need for 30 plus languages:https://archive(dot)ph/x0dFH>Russianon’s list of comprehensible input resources:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wXd0V32TjCFsr1-F_en_lA4MI-i7JtyYf26cWLtPRec>Massive collection of textbooks on various languages, sorted by familyhttps://theswissbay.ch/pdf/Books/Linguistics/>/lang/ inpoot torrentshttps://rentry.org/inpoot>Refold Anki deckshttps://rentry.org/refold>Non-English piracy siteshttps://fmhy.net/non-englishPrevious Thread: >>221698772
You don't have to say "Minä'" at all. "Rakastan sinua" already conveys it.
>>221827039'kohannya' is literally the ugliest word ever, so of course hohols call love that.
>>221827470you are brown and also mongolid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8mrB4ZORYY
I AM SICK IN INPOOTING. I WANT TO SPEAK NOW
>>221830292Do it.
Starting another language at a slow pace (Pimsleur only, maybe with anki) with easy pronunciation and slightly more complex grammar, next to my original TL with easy grammar and slightly difficult pronunciation, or not?
>>221834241Some people end up just messing around and not getting anywhere, some like me are too hyperfocused on one thing to really be able to split their attention like that, but maybe you can do it. The only way to know is to try it, so I say go for it anon.
i want to write a romantic letter in russian!
>>221834841I had already failed attempts on my account, but I tried to learn just as much and in both languages, the pronunciation was difficult for me, the grammar in both cases were medium-difficult. Now I'm learning a language close to English and want to start Italian or Spanish as a side thingy
How do i learn a language if i'm depressed?
>>221836451Learning a language IS the cure for depression.
This isn't to insult anyone or shitpost/troll. Has anyone here successfully learned a second language as an adult? If yes, has any information from any /lang/ contributed to that goal?
>>221836451Be depressed in your TL
>>221837016There are at least a couple of regular posters who have achieved B2/C1 in difficult languages. I got around C1 in comprehension and B2 in production in my TL and I'm working for the certificate.I feel like the guide is incomplete and lacks a lot of things that would certainly speed up the process and help you reach the higher levels of mastery. A couple of those would be starting reading earlier, regularly doing a bit o grammar, doing pronunciation exercises, integrating WRITING which is crucial in order to stop being a retarded intermediate etc. Stop counting hours grinding intermediate slop and put some fucking effort in your inputting if you want to progress.
>>221836451get that sorted. you might be lacking vitamin d, try drinking orange juice next chance you get and see if your mood improves. if not, at least you had something a little sweet. you can only learn languages in a good mood; have you ever seen someone learning in a bad space of mind? your gains are just going to kill themselves. look at the nationally depressed populations.https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/depression-rates-by-countryturkey is up there, please don't kill yourself accidentally
>>221837016Dunno what "learned" is but at this point I can read litterature written for adults, watch a TV show or write a short story in Japanese. Just being stubborn and finding interesting content to engage with feels like it's 90% of what it takes, the rest is just optimization.
>>221837363what is your definition of successful? >>221827039>euro languages>turkeyhmmm>eu te amoive never heard or seen this other than from brazilians.
>>221838775This anon is on his way to it >>221838000He has done 80% of the work and has 95% of the benefits since most weaboos don't actually move to Japan so production is an afterthought.But even if it weren't, you don't need to double your hours so that production catches up, "merely" 1-200h will suffice.
>>221838000Is there even a test of Japanese proficiency that isn't fucking garbage (so not the JLPT)
>>221837016 what is your definition of successful?>>221838940shit, i meant to reply to >>221838940 but im glad to get your reply lol.for me, once i started to feel like i could:>comfortably spend a day/days without speaking/listening in my native language>started to enjoy and appreciate relationships made with people who only speak my TL>felt comfortable/appreciated reading/consuming adult (not porn lmao) content in the TLthen that felt like a big turning point. basically once the work goes from feeling like a grind to actually being enjoyable and bringing improvements to your life, then it does *feel* like success. Even if it's awkward, imperfect, whatever. the fact that you know you and another person (given enough time or re-explanations) can understand each other, is nice.
>>221837016I think most anons here already know how to find info on their own. And, in the end, it really boils down to "do anki, input as much as possible, google grammar you don't understand" anyways. The wiki has a few useful website and media recommendations I guess. The thread was more useful before AI could instantly answer every single grammar question you'll ever have. Now it's mostly a place to hang out and shitpost with other language learning anons. I mean it was always that, but people used to ask questions and do translation challenges as well.
>>221839164maybe the Nihongo Kentei since it's intended to be taken by natives, it is open to everyone though so you can try it if you feel like you can outjapanese the japanese
>>221827039Is this how to learn a language:1. Learn alphabet/writing system2. Watch some comprehensible input, start an anki deck of the most common/useful words, do an audio course like Pimsleur, Assimil, Michel Thomas, or FSI, skim a grammar textbook for important info3. Do some reading immersion, starting from easy to hard, start sentence mining4. Talk to nativesGuys help
>>221840835Yep, you're all set. Just start already.
Been loving German and French reading more as of late. French listening and pronunciation is getting quite better aswell. Feels nice.>>221837016I have learned to read and listen German and understand cases and synthetic languages from it at 21, though output via speaking and writing is still a hassle as it was first language in which I took seriously more into. Along with Russian and Irish which I will get more into aswell, that aren't so hard as I once thought.
what exactly is your excuse for not being fluent in icelandic by now?
>>221842895it's pretty useless
>Thought I had a great understanding of the language>Relax for like a month or two, stop my hour in the mornings practice>Go back to listening>Much of the stuff is incomprehensible againbros... does understanding by ear really drop this fast or is it just that I'm using new material with new accents / words / styles of speaking?
>>221827039bump
thats not how a latvian would say it, unless someone specifically asked first who they love
>>221827039Most people would say >Es Tevi mīluthough.
>>221846380I guess you are right, that form feels more natural as a response, but as a statement it is >>221847013Because our word order isn't that strict, one may encounter other forms out in the wild, but almost exclusively as part of poetry and cheesy song lyrics
This random sentence appeared during typing practice, but I don't understand its meaning.
>>221847013>>221847070similarly the russian example feels off for the same reason, it should be "я тeбя люблю" as the SOV word order puts more emphasis on the object, i guess the people who provided the russian and latvian examples opted for a SVO order for whatever reason (maybe due to influence of the english prompt's SVO order?). compare the lithuanian, ukrainian and belarusian examples which all use SOV and as far as i'm aware they shouldn't differ in word order that much in this caseafaik the word order is the greatest filter in the balto-slavic languages as it's subtle like this yet it determines the emphasis and feel of the sentence, language learners and AI translations alike end up concocting unnatural sounding sentences because they cannot grasp it well
>>221847319he likes hitting the drums with his sticks for emotional release. He does not like talking about his feeling like some homo fag
How do I make mnemonics of sentences to memorize vocab?
>>221847378>it should be "я тeбя люблю"It works both ways, just depends on the sentence which one would sound better.
>>221848047Give me an example
>>221849526vyras apgavo šunį
>>221842895Too niche, if I'm gonna improve in anything Scandinavian it would be to improve my understanding of spoken Danish or written old Norse, especially in it's runic form as there are rune stones all over the place.>>221845516Listening is genuinely really difficult, but it sounds weird that it would drop that quickly. Try listening to some kinda of content you're more familiar with and see I guess.
>>221849817I don't have anything in English though. Wyro is a couch, tiered man usually laying at the couch (wyro) after work. Suka or sunia is a bitch, female dog in Polish. But these are mnemonics for individual words. Maybe it's better to act out some scenes or watch a video of someone saying it and connect it in your head to the movie?
>>221847728>>221847319Right. He's speaking as if his feelings were some kind of animal or monster that he could literally hit with a stick.
brothers is this true?
>>221852951https://youtu.be/SmbVPUiPdp0?si=RztOA0j0pELN1AD8
Bumperino
>>221852951pic on the left just looks like cairo, which do speak arabic, while the only place that speaks arabic and looks like that is france, which doesn't count
>>221837363How come when I pointed out the guide is likely outdated I was ignored? I don't even shitpost or troll. I just like to find the optimal ways of learning a language and apply them. I know anons like >>221840059 suck off anki, but is anki REALLY putting in work for anyone's goals? People still think duolingo is a legit method if you can believe that. That's why I ask, though. It's sad that this thread is mostly shitposting like the others. The whole site is shitposting. Can we not have ONE thread that is more on the serious side?
>>221855026>I just like to find the optimal ways of learning a language and apply them.You are like the retards on /fit/ splitting hairs over TikTok tier exercises while the oldfags have figured out long ago that it doesn't really matter. Just lift regularly, eat protein, rest and it is guaranteed that you'll make it. You are spending hours upon hours trying to find stupid optimizations that get you 1% while ignoring the basics. >but is anki REALLY putting in work for anyone's goals?Yes, Anki works. Not by itself, but 1h a day of Anki has given me incredible gains in terms of comprehension. How else are you supposed to not forget the words you learn through immersion? Hoping to meet them again after 20 more hours?!The hard truth is that learning a language, however easy it might be, is an over 2000h of work endeavor. Does it fucking matter if you get there in 1800 or 2200?
>>221827376And for the average Finn "sinua" is too many syllables. "Sua" is enough.
>>221827376That's standard for a whole lot of languages with a first person singular present indicative. It's really not anything unique to Finnish.
>>221855452NTA but there's a massive world of improvement in language learning that could be done but isn't because the technology, material, and understanding haven't matured. 'Just input' itself is silly, as if input is all the same. For example there's research that babies/young children just don't acquire anything meaningful from listening to tv or radio, but they do learn in their home environment which has consistent repetitive narrow patterns that allow for statistical learning over time (e.g people tend to say things at certain times in certain locations with certain people.) Likewise there's still a lot of room for improvement in SRS. E.g I currently am working on an SRS system which is similar to a regular frequency-based word SRS but randomly rotates sentences from a massive pool extracted from real content where you're shown the same word in different sentences and are 1) never shown the same sentence twice and 2) are never shown sentences where there's more than one unknown word or grammatical element. I use it everday and it's worlds better at jumpstarting vocabulary than the pre-built 5k word/sentence decks where you hear the same shit in the same voice over and over. And it's nuts that no one has made anything like this (or anything else of interest in terms of SRS games) in the 20 years since anki has came out. people massively lack imagination.
>>221839164Its called being able to read a novel
>>221858588That's just reading comprehension. What about listening, writing, speaking?
>>221855026>How come when I pointed out the guide is likely outdated I was ignored?anon, i replied to you and you ignored my reply.
bumphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J45uLvYDlIQ&pp=ygUWTW8gRGjDsm1obmFsbGFuIEZow6hpbg%3D%3D
>>221855452Do you always make baseless claims without evidence?>>221860599Demonstrably untrue. But go off.>>221858480SRS? I don't follow.
>>221861774>SRSSpaced repetition system.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition
>anon isnt interested in actually discussing anything
>>221858480I agree, langauge learning techniques have a huge amount of space to improve because, even though it's a big industry, there's never been any real competition for the type of language learners you'll see here: most people just want Duolingo, or a phrasebook, or want to pass some specific test for visa reasons, etc. "American guy who wants to learn enough Mandarin to read novels through self-study" is a completely unserved demographic because it's so tiny. "Just study [i.e. immerse, output, and sentence mine], don't waste time trying to do things 1% better" is good advice, but for a lot of people stuff like using Anki _is_ a stupid optimisation to them. Likewise, for each /fit/ oldfag who's ascended and realized you just need to lift big, eat protein, and rest, there's a bunch of people whose idea of common sense is doing crunches to spot reduce fat, or avoiding weights to build lean rather than bulky muscle, or whatever. What's considered basic knowledge is often only well known amongst serious learners and is itself the result of people trying to optimise things and do them as well as possible.A good example of things being succesfully optimised is FSRS, which just objectively makes Anki much more time efficient, an improvement only possible because ~no one had tried to make a better SRS algorithm since 1987. One thing I'd like to see is an open source hierarchical spaced repetition system like the one in Math Academy, which takes into account that by reviewing calculus you're implicitly reviewing trigonometry, and therefore algebra, and therefore arithmetic. Funnily enough I found someone making this specifically for language learning whilst writing this: https://github.com/satchelspencer/hsrs. I'd also kill for a company to make a good modernised version of Assimil, but that will probably never happen. Hopefully vibecoding and high-quality translation and TTS will help open source devs make stuff like this, but a lot of them seem opposed to it.
Which ONE language is worth learning to C1/C2 mastery where I can read novels, etc.?There are holidays here and I have no homework, no classes, and can start literally NOW.Please advise, thanks!
>>221862673esperanto
>>221862032Can you please give me one more chance and help me. I will literally drop my English perfectionism obstacle if you give me a chance this time.
>>221862673Imbecile.
>>221862715No meme langs or conlangs, please.
>>221862673Can you please stop posting in this thread?
>>221862750You too, chip in and help me pick a language to learn. I literally have nothing to do now. New video games suck and I don't want to play new video games. I have 2-3 hours of free time a day, maybe gonna put 1.5 hours of that into daily language learning.Budi častan čovek i daj mi savet.
>>221862758That's sad, but I might probably just do that and quit.
>striduler (french)>stridulate means to make a sound or chirp by rubbing body parts together as in a cricket. Never heard of it before.
>>221862673If you don't know what to learn after English, the answer is French or German if you're focused on Europe or Chinese if you're focused on Asia
>>221863433I chose German, independent of any answer here (nobody helped), are you learning it by chance? So we can become accountability buddies or whatever it is called???Let's go?
>>221836451Immersion gooning will cure your depression.
>>221864519Simply not true
>>221842895Use case? Niche shite language from lava rock land.
>>221864565Clearly you don't stoke your shit to cute girls in your TL. No wonder you are a miserable fuck.
>>221863433what if I already speak English, French, German and don't want to learn chinese though
>>221864641What does stoke your shit mean
>>221864687Wank yerself silly lad
>>221864796I’m a man of Christ so can’t relate
>>221863433>French or German if you're focused on EuropeBut I don't care for any German or French speaking country. Italy and Spain are better.
>>221862107I didn't want to come off as a luddite, I truly believe there is room for improvement in all aspects of life.That being said, those worries are reserved for the people who are deep into the journey of whatever thing they were trying to master and as a result have learned a lot about the problem domain and themselves in the process. The kinds of obvious and catastrophic errors beginners make by not mastering the basics costs them infinitely more than any marginal gain.>What's considered basic knowledge is often only well known amongst serious learnersThat is partially because now every community and virtual space is filled to the brim with grifters that either try to sell you something or to make content that intentionally muddles the water. Hence my advice to him and every other beginner out there is to stick to the core pillars.What are those pillars you say? The guide, flawed as it might be, will send them in the right direction. Same thing for /fit/, but nobody wants to lift heavy anymore and think those peptides from their favourite e-celeb will get them the 1/2/3/4.
>>221864852This nigga fell for the off brand plebian semite cattle control psyop lmao
>>221864647Spanish would be the next logical step. Something Asian or distant from English like Hungarian if you want to challenge yourself.
>>221864916I basically agree. Admittedly my post equivocates between ways for learners to improve their own learning process by choosing better techniques and ways for people to create better resources. I'm cautiously optimistic on the second one, but I don't know if there's much you can do to learn faster than the current "meta". (Maybe reading more? I know that sounds obvious but I've seen tons of people saying things like they didn't try reading a novel in their TL until years in, or people who track their progress and do 1100 hours of listening + 150 hours of reading).>That is partially because now every community and virtual space is filled to the brim with grifters that either try to sell you something or to make content that intentionally muddles the water. Hence my advice to him and every other beginner out there is to stick to the core pillars.Yes. Another problem is that people are way too emotionally invested to think rationally about what works. I know that sounds strange but if you go to r/languagelearning it's full of posts about things like whether it's rude to say that Duolingo doesn't work when so many people use it, when you're "allowed" to call yourself fluent, or how Anki and extensive reading don't fit in with people's "learning styles". It's genuinely bizarre. This is sadly true in real life, too.
Bingeing inpoot hurts my brain
people who use chatgpt what prompts do you use?
>>221867542chatgpt
>>221867542Prompts for what? What are you trying to use it for? Sometimes I ask it for a translation. I say "please translate this sentence" and paste the sentence in. Or I'd say "explain the grammar in this sentence." That kind of thing.
>>221864404Well, you missed your chance. I'm learning another language>>221864647Are you interested in Asia? Then go with Japanese. Unless you're more into the closer Asia, in which case Russian or Arabic. If not, Spanish or Portuguese if you want to go further west. Or just Latin or Greek for nerd-maxxing>>221864894So you know which languages and cultures interest you. My answers covered entire areas of general interest
Holy fuck I hate beginner content when does comprehensible input actually get interesting?
>>221868959It doesn't need to be interesting. Think of beginner content as just a collection of vaguely connected sentences that are at a similar level. The interesting part is engaging with the language and figuring out how it works and seeing your understanding grow. If you're bored, you're probably just not engaging enough with the sentences. Are you actively thinking about the words and structure or just glossing over shit and hoping it sticks? It should feel effortful and slightly tiring, otherwise your cognitive load is probably too low.
>>221868959comprehensible input definitely gets better when you've learned the high frequency vocabulary and have a good understanding of the grammar to just watch/read whatever you're actually interested in
Bros I just spent a whole hour trying to say the word "flesh" and I still can't get it right most of the time
>>221869253If it's that boring maybe it's too easy for you. Try something just slightly harder so that figuring it out will be like a puzzle
>>221870940Wrong anon >>221868959
>>221868959What language?
I WANT TO LEARN EVERY LANGUAGE IN THE WORLD!!!!
>>221867542chatgpt please tell me my grammar is correct
>>221862673
>>221871300Name them
Bringing books or comics to work to read to kill time when I don't have anything that needs doing has really helped me squeeze in a few extra hours per week. I'm getting an extra hour a day of reading on the average day, and often more just by doing this.
How do I learn grammar and declensions?
>>221876724How much downtime you get at work?
I feel like my comprehension while reading literature is absolutely dog shit. I can barely imagine what is going on in the story while understanding 60% to 80% of the words in a text.How do I fix that? I am reading Harry Potter in my target language
>>221877775A couple of hours per day typically >>221878400Past a certain threshold of unknown or poorly understood words understanding will break down quickly. You need to either use the dictionary more or read something easier. You're grammar might also be lacking, even if you know all the words not knowing what interacts with what and how will still result in gibberish.
>>221878400Use lookups to understand 100% of the words and don't move on to the next sentence until you've grasped it. Translating the sentence to English and then comparing to the TL one also helps you fill in the gaps.
>>221862673Throwback to this gem.
>>221879834a gem
>>221868818>My answers covered entire areas of general interestImplying German is worth learning at all though lol
>>221873943>Do you know English>Nohow they gonna read this lol
>>221869934It's not uncommon, but there are few contexts where anyone will need to say it so you will be fine
>>221867051>reading more?Reading is the cure to modernity. The antidote to slop and low effort posting. No thorough analysis of a serious subject can be done in any other form than writing. It is indeed baffling that people parade their muh children learn by doing nothing narrative while conveniently ignoring that children that read or are being read to have double the lexicon of their peers as early as 3 years old. Hell, if you want to argue that the study was flawed and my affirmation baseless it suffices to look around yourself. What do the best speakers in your own language have in common? The writers, the poets? They’ve all read a lot. Yet it is blasphemy in some circles to start seriously reading before listening to garbage for the magic X thousand hours. Reading is SRS but without the wanting to kill yourself part. It makes learning meaningful, fun, engaging. I can do 1h of Anki on the best of days, but can read at least 4. After reaching high-intermediate SRS is a secondary activity.I was watching recently some very old French interviews of Umberto Eco and, while you can clearly see that he is a walking library and the pinnacle of refinement, it pales in comparison to the well thought phrases that he himself has produced when given the time to polish and sublimate his thoughts on a piece of paper.And to wrap it up, in writing this reply I have been made painfully aware of my current shortcomings in English, due to the lack of recent active practice. This should be a reminder to everyone here that competence vs performance is a bitch, that in order to perform you have to *deliberately* practice (as you’ve mentioned) daily and not be too hard on yourself when you make silly A2 mistakes. >>221867051>It's genuinely bizarre. This is sadly true in real life, too.
>>221881951>contd.Not when you consider that this directly contradicts the stories people tell about themselves, the way they are and the life they’ve been living. It is rather hard even for the most rational of individuals to admit that maybe they’ve been wrong for many years. I honestly think that learning something you have always been bad at and is also difficult at the same time, such as a foreign language or benching lmao2pl, can be one of the most rewarding and unexpected source of growth as an individual. As someone who has been considered prodigious in the sciences yet can’t kick a ball or write at a similar level, I can confirm it has been a life changing experience.
>>221867051>Duolingo doesn't work when so many people use itDuolingo is a great starter resources, it gives you near perfect i+1 sentences.
>>221867051>Another problem is that people are way too emotionally invested to think rationally about what works.Speak for yourself. I just made a post asking if anyone has honestly learned a second language here, and what the actual effective methods are.
>>221881159google image translate
>>221869246Yeah, but it's kind of humiliating when you are a grown ass. >>221881068If we’re talking about Europe in general, without any specific preferences, but assuming we want to start learning a foreign language, then yes. If specific interests emerge, having learned German or French beforehand might prove at least somewhat helpful with bunch of other lanuages.The response to the Jordanian assumed two things:1. He wants to learn a foreign language,2. He doesn’t have any specific preferences.Also, life quality, big job market, big trade exchange in the whole Europe etc.
>>221827376and you can substitute rakastan with vihaan
>>221884805I wouldn't call it humiliating. Sometimes the content can be so cringe that it distracts you from the work, but most of it isn't that bad. Youtube CI tends to be very hit or miss and tries too hard to be "creative" when it doesn't need to. If you grab a textbook with audio, you'll find easy texts like "John Smith goes on vacation with his friends" and the overall story doesn't really matter, it's just an excuse to give you a bunch of sentences that include relevant vocabulary.
