So with the FW cast mostly being a homerun, is it time to finally admit that UDoALG's new 2hus were just bad? Why did they flop so bad compared to 20?
>>49955575fatties
>>49955575I'm not particularly attached to any given 19 girl, but I feel like they got screwed over a bit with how much of rushed mess 19 was in conjunction to fighting for attention with so many other established girls. Except Zanmu, Zanmu is a stinky bootleg oni.
>>49955575Hisami should be twice as tall as that
>>49955575Gave us canon yurihu Hisami!
>Make outrageously handsome beauty, like top 5 sexhu. Much more provocative design then usual with a personality and occupation basically engineered to make Touhou's clingy haglover audience globally jizz in their pants>... then make her lesbian for the forgettable big bad that Hisami has to hardcarry on her back in order for anybody to give a shit once new toy syndrome wears offNow don't get it twisted, nothing wrong with girls kissing. But even during release month I could tell that really killed any further momentum for her. At least here.That leaves us with the three on the boxart. Who are sleeper but pretty neat additions excluding that extremely forgettable Cerberus wolf. Would've gladly traded her out to get more screentime for anyone else like Waga or Benben I seriously cannot think of a single thing she does that 2-3 characters don't already do better
>>49955636Hisami canonizing yuri will not be forgotten!
>>49955575Most 20hus will be forgotten too, that's the thing. Nareko will probably stick around, even Chimi and Ariya are likely to fade.
>>49955575Their designs are all over the place and messy, color and design-wise, they struggle to be unique and standout.Hisami is done right and actually does something different, hence why she's popular
>>49955575Zanmu was incredibly dull. Between fellating her and the interchangeable gang squabbles, the new trio didn't have much time to make a stand out impression.
The lack of a decimal game or anything to cement the cast's presence didn't help. I think Biten's the only one from that game to show up in a manga chapter. Zanmu showed up in WOoHS's manga sections but I don't think that really counts.With UM, Chimata and Megumu showed up in LE, most of the cast showed up in 18.5, and then still some of the cast showed up in UDoALG. There was just more to keep them in people's minds. The Animal Realm is a place that isn't going to be seen often, so the Yakuza and their respective subordinates won't show up much, and Zanmu and Hisami are both Hell characters who also won't show up much.I think Yuuma's probably the only Animal Realm character with a chance of showing up from time to time since she's not solely Animal Realm-based.
>>49955730>I think Yuuma's probably the only Animal Realm character with a chance of showing up from time to time since she's not solely Animal Realm-based.and gay as all hell for Ran
>>49955575I don't know but it's sadI really liked 19 and the the games newhus
>>49955708Hisami is popular because she's an appeal to the lowest common denominator. Her personality begins and ends with "horny for her boss". Fanon doesn't even have to flanderize her, she's prepackaged "oh, Ainz-sama~".
>>49955736hate ranfags so fucking much it's unreal
>>49955797You can annoy them by reminding them she's gay for Yuuma and gay for Yukari and will never be for them!
>>49955797You can annoy them by reminding them that she's canonically a futahu.
I like them all, Hisami to a slightly lesser extent. I hope Zanmu is given stuff to do whenever hell's involved, even if UDoALG overcommits to the bit of her having everything under control. The idea itself doesnt bother me so much as the execution insists upon itself.The 3 goons round out an already fun crew in the 3 beast leaders quite well. However besides maybe Chiyari who is more abstract and had her time to shine as the most broken "Phantasmagoria" character ever made, the other two feel built more for a fighting game (Add them to the pile).Hisami looks great, her attacks are thematically appropriate and fun, but the character itself is not my cup of tea. I'd rather take any other type of subordinate. As a (mediocre) writer, I can feel myself stretching, but tolerably so, if I were to give, say, an emancipation story for Mayumi to do, or try and explore Mai & Satono's pasts, or potential remains of their memories as they work for Okina, or even try & challenge myself to write them as figurative puppets that they are. Hisami feels too inflexible.
>>49955818I've seen what Ranfags post about taking it in the arse and I really, really doubt that.
>>49955575They're ugley and shorts suck
>>49955825basically echoing my sentiments hereThere's just nothing to do with Hisami. She's about as one-note as a character can get. You can't do a story where she stops being obsessed with Zanmu because it's not so much reciprocation that she wants in the first place but being scorned. You can't really do much about her finding a new purpose because she's got a specific job in Hell which her ability is specifically suited to as well.Besides, her personality makes it hard to use her for anything other than obsessive maso hijinx.As a similarily mediocre writer, I've got nothing for her. She's a very attractive character design but the character itself awakens very little in me.
Please don't be mean to Ran..
Hisami is straight
>>49955843So's spaghetti and she's always wet around Zanmu!
>>49955575Enoko is kind of cool. She's a small character, but there's a place for girls like her. Her loose connection to Marisa makes her at least a bit interesting without having to make her central to anything and I honestly wish she was in a better game. Her design wasn't an eyesore either. A mehhu, but pretty alright.Son Biten is a gimmick monkey girl.The others are pure shithus and before seeing this thread, I honestly forgot Chiyari existed. They're too out-of-the-way, making the whole game feel like a pointless side story.Hisami was the only one to ever garner any popularity and that was mostly because of her design being the least ugly, and that meaningful popularity quickly vanished(like with every "new sensation" newhu we've had since 16) because most of her fans just wanted to like a new girl.That being said, I wouldn't necessarily call the 20hus a "homerun."The first two are pretty forgettable, although they do have a bit going on. I suppose they do a good job as stage 1 and 2 bosses.Nareko is gimmicky, but might stick around a bit, at least because she's unique. Yuiman's design is a little unappealing in my personal opinion, but her story in interesting and connects nicely to an already existing section of Tohuou lore, as well as to the rest of the game.Toyohime is there to connect 20 to some older storylines and does that job pretty well. Again, at least in my opinion. I think her presence will guarantee that 20 won't get memory holed. Her jump in popularity might be a testament to that. She's not really a 20hu though, and there is a clear difference between her and the rest of the cast.Ariya was the highlight of the game for me. Her design is alright, it could look better but still characterizes her very well. It is also very unique and there's a lot you can do with it. Her lore is also cool, and connects well with everything else in the game while also expanding its scope a bit. I'm not exactly sure why, but this cast feels more old-style in its arrangement, although you could argue it is still too utilitarian and focused on world-building as opposed to characterization. I think they'll stick around. Ubame didn't even get the newhu boost in popularity, which might show that the fans are more cautious now, so maybe the popular ones really are here to stay. Thank you for reading my blog.
>>49955869Oh, I forgot about Nina. She has the simplest design of the game and looks pretty appealing. I think she's cool. I like the concept behind her and she connects a lot of the modern and traditional elements of the game very nicely, poetically even. It's nice to see 2hus that aren't millions of year old appear every now and then. I wish she wasn't exclusively used for memes.
>>49955730One of the stones in FW is made from Zanmu's ability and she's in an ending, and she was in Whispered Oracle as the reason it exists in the first place.
>>49955838Even Hisami's route in her game is a huge nothing burger where she has no personality and just flops around thinking muh Zanmu and having zero chemistry with the girls she encounters.It's quite sad because she has a really interesting omake and a cool design but the whole one sided infatuation thing she has for Zanmu makes her ironically a one note character I guess it's cool she kind of fucks over Zanmu's plan with Suika in UDoALG but that's not saying much when UDoALG sucks so much in so many levels in the first place
I like Zanmu
Zanmu is a Len'en character
>>49955838I really fucking hate how much I enjoy Hisami's design. Bitch gets almost no art, and as for her personality... yeah. Why do you gotta be like this, dick?
>>49958160Elaborate
>>49955575their core designs all kind of suck besides hisami's and maybe zanmu. hisami and zanmu's dynamic is extremely bland and one-note, nothing to really explore there as it's almost a gag, and enoko's connection to marisa's harem doesn't work because it's too bloated (narumi saw this too) and biten's wearing those fucking hag robes again. chiyari had some appeal for a while by the "i love stinky neets" crowd but i don't see her much anymore.i do think most of FW will be forgotten, but yuiman and ariya have a much more interesting dynamic for fanworks and nareko is just too cute to ignore. ariya's technically a pre-existing character so she might see some content regarding mokou and akyuu. i hope nina sticks around but she's a bit of a one-trick pony
>>49955575I can give you the definitive reason: It's because most of them exist as side character to an existing one
>>49958195Need her to leave lipstick markings all over my body
>>49958398>i do think most of FW will be forgottenI personally haven't been this excited for a new cast since LoLK, so I'm hoping Yuiman and Ariya stick around at least and as more than just "yuri bait".
>>49959366Are you Zanmu?>>49959449canon yurihus btw
>>49959477Ariya has literally (LITERALLY) shown romantic interest in men.
>>49959366I KNOW, RIGHT? God damn. Well, at least I do have the respite of sloppa, but still. God damn.
>>49959488Everyone's gay in 2hu anon; no exceptions period
>>49959488I like how he always gets pissy when trying to faggotize Ariya
>>49959576Yurifags just can't handle a handsome girl (heterosexual).
This isn't the right place for it, but it's sad to me how much the yurifag has poisoned the well considering how much of early Touhou fan culture was built on fan pairings and doujinshi built around them. We used to be able to coexist.
>>49959831Its sad, I never had hated seeing yuri till it kept being used as a troll tactic. I wish mods were real
>>49959488That just means she's bi.
>>49959917Yuribroken.
>>49958291Now if only Jynx finished something
What was the last truly popular cast? I feel like there was a noticeable dip in fan interest in newhus after DDC, I can't describe why but it feels like it's the end of an era.
>>49963017LoLK, maybe WBaWC. 16 was an all around stinker beyond Aunn. People like 18's sex fox and dork goddess but tripod tengu seems to be included out of obligation and I couldn't tell you the last time I saw someone give a shit about Mike, Misumaru, or Sannyo. Even the land kappa is more of a tool for Notorifags to make a new dynamic rather than her own thing.
>>49963185>SannyoReminder that she got 2 chapters of LE's worth of spotlight.
>>49963185WBaWC is a stretch. All I could tell you of the fan impressions of that game is that people ship the turtle and horse and the cow somehow became the official NTR hu.
>>49958291Probably referencing JynX's tendency to draw intentionally androgynous characters and not give them a concrete gender so the player can headcanon whatever gender they feel like onto the character.
>>49963185Megumu is the most popular of her game, she's just a quiet popular, like Sagume.
>>49963203And got dropped just as quickly
>>49963017SA
>>49963017Probably DDC, where only the Stage 4 and Extra Stage noticably lag behind the others. LoLK had the rabbits that nobody really cares about, and while Doremy/Sagume and Clownpiece/Junko/Hecatia form a decent niche, they don't really have the reach of the Grassroots Network.HSiFS was purposely designed to add characters with connections to existing characters, but they already have bloated circles so nobody cares about the new ones (and ZUN absolutely did Larva dirty by setting something up for her in VFiS that never had any payoff), and Okina herself, despite being pretty present in canon, is just too much like Yukari for anyone to care about. ZUN keeps shilling the sanctuary, but every character he adds is still pretty unpopular, so it doesn't work.WBaWC has the animal matriarchs and everyone else was just kinda there, so that's two-and-a-half characters out seven.Unconnected Marketeers was true to its name in that the characters were all too solitary to do anything interesting, and the only thing I remember about Juuouen is that Ran is former Beast Yakuza.The new game has more connections to the existing cast (giving Kanako a friend is probably a good move), and a more dramatic plot, which may help, but in all seriousness, most of the new girls will probably be forgotten real quick, outside of one or two artists focusing excessively on one of them.
>>49963566Something else I've personally noticed is that DDC was the last mainline games with a really traditional "troublemaker starts trouble, go stop them" plot. LoLK on it feels like everything is soaked in subterfuge and misdirection, our player characters are constantly getting played and forced to help some faction that we aren't really rooting for. It's unsatisfying when it constantly happens and it's all getting a little tiresome.
>>49963017The number of games where the entire cast is liked is pretty small. Like nobody really cares about the likes of Wriggle or Letty or Shizuha as popular as the main core of PCB, IN, and MoF are.It's really only EosD. Even for SA, outside of /jp/ Yamame isn't really all that and usually ranks alongside prismriver sisters and the ones I listed above, and for UFO Ichirin ranks lower than those.
>>49963804For EoSD it helps everyone from stage 3 and forward is connected to one another as the SDM crew, Rumia Cirno and Daiyousei used to be bundled together under Team 9 with other early lower stage girls like Wriggle and Mystia but I feel that has fallen out of favor as more faires were introduced for Cirno to hang out with
>>49963804>>49963865I feel like this sentiment is probably the most accurate. Proper character grouping helps a ton too, it gives people something to play off of. The further in time you go back, the more you were limited by who you even had to like. So of course those stray girls got more attention. In general, it feels like people seldom make long term changes to their established favorites in favor of new girls anyways. Not that it doesn't happen, but a long established list is hard to shake up. I could see that being an influence in the level of attention some new girls got. Like sure, some people like Nareko now, but how long before they fall back to their usual girls and forget about her for another thousand years?
>Unconnected Marketeers was true to its name in that the characters were all too solitary to do anything interestingNot actually. These four are strongly connected and doing interesting stuff in fanworks.In particular, Megumu, Chimata, and Tsukasa have been getting more and more attention.You can compare their popularity polls and the FUMO lineup (including the upcoming ones) to other 2hus from the nearby era.It’s never easy for new characters to break through the concrete layer of the old legacies. That’s true for this series and any other long-runner.Longtime fans get worn out on adapting to new faces every couple years.But 2hu itself is shifting generations, and I guess the UM cast has a chance to smear into those concrete layers. Some of them already have.
>>49963767The smaller-scaled nature of DDC also means any member of its cast can be shoved into any kind of story barring some huge cosmic event without feeling out of place. It makes them versatile in a way someone like Junko is unable to be.
>>49955575They are the gayhus.
>>49963566>>49964898Oops missing quote
>>49955825Zanmu is such a boring fucking character. I hate that she basically just boils down to "haha I have everything under control, everything went according to plan, everyone played right into my hand and this incident went down exactly as I wanted and the only reason I don't control Gensokyo now is because I have a boner for Reimu I guess".Also just kind of ties back to >>49963767, ZUN's inability to right satisfying conclusions has evolved from being unable to tie up story arcs to being unable to right satisfying endings to stand alone game stories. I just can't bring myself to give a shit about the super cool animal bitches or whatever Zanmu is. I just don't care. Fuck them.
They're so shit that the yuricuck can have them.
There are multiple reasons:>Character saturation>People just stopped caring because they know every new 2hu will only ever get more info of them like 10 years later in some random Touhou manga page>New characters cannot compete with 30 years of fanwork and characterization of oldhu, worsened by the point aboveMost old franchise avoided this by giving new character as much characterization and screentime as possible after their release, which is something ZUN doesn't do, cause he is alone, and Touhou lack avenue to showcase characters
>>49963865>>49964180Funnily enough the Japanese shared the same sentiment, EoSD cast are all condensed into the SDM so it is easy to make fanwork of the whole group, they are already togetherModern 2hu characters are scattered all over the place, in UM alone you traveled through 5 locations in the span of 6 stage, not to mention ZUN just stopped specifying where characters live, he used to do that for old characters. Just ask yourself where Chimata or Keiki live? Where is Yuuma's house?
>>49964898>Longtime fans get worn out on adapting to new faces every couple years.It's them that do the heavy lifting for the new characters. We have the stats and data for it. Flandre is consistently the Touhou character with the youngest demographic. Yuuma's popularity rise in 2023 or Toyohime's spike this year are, on the opposite side, largely due to older fans.However simultaneously, there is a point of diminishing returns if you're talented enough, because the doujin spirit has to compete with opportunities from within, or simply the fact that you're continuously showered with means of monetizing your content, the views of your content, and so on.I remember prtn chan, one of the few prominent Nemuno artists, had gone on hiatus for a little bit simply because he felt demoralized at his stunted growth & inability to grow a bigger audience and spread the love for his favorite.
>>49968264That was the most surprising thing to be revealed in this year Popularity Poll: Old fan are the only one making an effort to push the new charactersAnd it sorta made sense, if you are a newbie to the franchise and someone told you to start from EoSD, I reckon you would stop at around TD at best (danmaku is not for everyone), unless you put in effort to be something more than a casual
