What's /jp/'s opinion on Touhou Chireikiden - Cheating Detective Satori?
>>503435461. Mimi-chan is cute.2. Satorin is cute!3. P*tchouli sucks.
>>50343546I'm glad Alice died.
>>50343580Cheating Detective hands wrote this post.
>>50343589>Alice died.WHAT
Interesting program. Very badly booked, but the spots are interesting if you don't mind the hit or miss promos.I like the look and gimmick of Mimi; she also has really solid mic skills, psychology and eager to take a bump, but she was booked way too strong.
>>50343546>CheatingFuck off, troon.
>>50343546Mizuchi's character arc was non-existent and the pay off sucked.The story lazily tries to slap the reader with a tragic backstory but it's too transparent that late into the story.The final confrontation sucks and has zero emotional or narrative weight if want anything beyond pretty visuals.Characters just kind of come and go, notoriously Alice is presumably just dead now but Sanae also just gets ditched in a gy apparently and just stops mattering.Reimu has no balls.It's just a power fantasy character ripping through characters you probably actually like for however many chapters this trash lasted.
>>50344490>The story lazily tries to slap the reader with a tragic backstoryIs that how it came across to you? To me, it seemed more like an "oh look, Gensokyo's bigwigs actually brought this nonsense upon themselves - AGAIN" sort of reveal, rather than sympathy bait. Either way, we've always known that pre-Spell Card rules Gensokyo was fairly brutal, so MiMi's backstory shouldn't have shocked anybody. I'm not counting secondaries as anybodies, of course.>Reimu has no balls.Her refusing to follow Yukari's and Satori's urgings and choosing her own path in helping MiMi pass on was a pretty cool and heroic moment, in my opinion.>ripping through characters you probably actually like But she didn't actually harm anybody? And she kind of got bodied in each and every open fight with other characters.
>>50344542>"oh look, Gensokyo's bigwigs actually brought this nonsense upon themselves - AGAIN"Except the only person you could even remotely actually blame is Suika, who mostly fucked off from Gensokyo until recently.>choosing her own path in helping MiMi passShe explicitly didn't, she just added Mizuchi to her harem.>And she kind of got bodied in each and every open fight with other characters.The fuck are you talking about? She solo'd Mokou, she defeated the entire Moriya Shrine plus Marisa, she defeated Satori with no issues, she only lost to Reimu thanks to plot armor, hell she's even apparently sparing with Flandre after everything is resolved so she's clearly just on par with fucking whoever she wants to fight apparently. Outside of Reimu (who only won because of a convenient super form) when does she actually lose a fight? Getting tricked into going back down to former hell hardly counts.
>>50343546the best touhou printwork. Mizuchi deserves a game
>>50345510>she just added Mizuchi to her harem.Cute and canon lesbians.
>>50345510>Except the only person you could even remotely actually blame is SuikaPardon? Suika besides, Yukari is directly responsible for the plan that ended Mizuchi's usefulness and resulted in her being removed. Then she spends the entirety of her screentime hiding behind others' backs and urging Reimu toward a violent resolution. Kasen could have ended the incident in an instant but is absent for some reason. Kanako, who is responsible for connecting Former Hell with Gensokyo, would rather shut her doors and hide. Byakuren, who's supposed to help people achieve peace and has been shown to deal well with apparitions, instead defaults to violence. And so on. They absolutely caused and then grossly mishandled MiMi's grudge.>She explicitly didn'tShe explicitly did.>She solo'd MokouShe didn't solo shit, she possessed her. In fact, every fight she "wins" is solely because the person she possesses is strong. That's not "ripping through characters you like", that's riding their coattails because she herself is a pushover when forced to fight on her own.
>>50343546Would probably have been cooler if I didnt know aboit mizuchi before reading it
>>50346145Possession is a wincon, it's silly to claim a character using their ability doesn't count as a victory.>Yukari is directly responsible for the plan that ended Mizuchi's usefulness and resulted in her being removed.That's absurdly abstract and removes and sort of agency from Mizuchi. Her clan fought back against the formation of Gensokyo and lost, blaming the person she opposed is stupid. The only person that actually forced something on her was Suika, who suffers zero consequences for any of her fucking retarded decisions.
>>50346770>Winconthis isn't yugioh or magic the gathering
>>50346770>blaming the person she opposed is stupidYeah, thinking your enemies are in the wrong is nonsense. Sure. Right.
>>50346868You're right, it's a fight so the "victory condition" is even more abstract. She possessed her opponent (not sure how that's legal in spell card rules but whatever) which incapacitated her opponent. In any meaningful respect that is a victory.
>>50346930It's stupid in that you can't just act like Yukari is in the wrong because someone else declared her an enemy. Mizuchi made her choice in opposing pretty much everyone, she was even given a chance to come back into the fold and she refused. Mizuchi is responsible for her own actions and it's insane to say otherwise.
The actual plot was only okay-ish (occasionally), the dialogue was decent, but the art is cute as hell so who cares.Also why is my fucked up chud daughter speaking normally? What happened to her...
>>50346770>Possession is a winconFor MiMi? Only if it furthers her goal, which arguably only happened once she possessed Okuu and Reimu was there to face her. Otherwise, it's kind of a nothing. You'll recall that, until cornered, every other time she used the possession only to move about/escape. It wasn't among her goals to fight anyone other than Reimu. Hardly a "win" if she wasn't fighting in the first place, is it?>That's absurdly abstract and removes and sort of agency from Mizuchi.Putting aside the question of "agency" when applied to single-minded embodiments of emotion such as vengeful spirits, that's not really relevant. We were talking about how MiMi's rampage was caused by Gensokyo's bigwigs acting stupid - in the present and in the past. Yukari's Gensokyo plan ultimately caused MiMi to die as collateral and with a huge chip on her shoulder, which presently came back to bite her. Simple as. I'll agree it should have bitten Suika as well, but perhaps that's something for the future. Time will tell. As a side note, if Reimu had listened to Yukari and sealed Mizuchi away (again), sooner or later the whole shebang would've repeated (again). So that's another show of the awful handling of the situation by youkai.
>>50347041Did you read the manga? Mokou spotted and fought her. That was a straight fight, Mokou jobbed.>We were talking about how MiMi's rampage was caused by Gensokyo's bigwigs acting stupidAnd I'm saying that's a fucking retarded stance to take. The youkai acted to preserve themselves, Mizuchi engages in false flag attacks to undermine their survival attempts, she is killed by youkai. How dare they try to survive.
>>50347022She's possessed
powerscalefags might be the worst type of secondary
>>50343546It gave my favourite 2hu (Kaguya) sort of more screen time so it's up there with WaHH for my favourite Touhou manga.
>>50347078>Mokou spotted and fought her.Mokou tried to have a straight up fight with Mizuchi, but due to her condition was easily possessed, and the fight ended before it even began. Look, if you want to make it all about honour and arbitrary rules and whatnot, then sure. MiMi "won" that "fight" that she wasn't even trying to have, in which she didn't beat her opponent and didn't exchange a single blow with her. Good on you. You've got a point.>And I'm saying that's a fucking retarded stance to take.It is nevertheless what happened.>Mizuchi engages in false flag attacks to undermine their survival attemptsOh boy. No, she didn't. You need to re-read that chapter. Mizuchi was coerced - forced, under duress - to sham youkai attacks on the human population. This was part of an alternative plan (presumably by Suika) to HELP youkai stay relevant and survive. MiMi was actually coming around to it and beginning to sympathise with youkai shortly before her death. Then Yukari pushed the schedule on the Gensokyo plan ahead, said alternative scheme fell through, and Suika swung by pretty much to write Mizuchi off. Why? Because it would be safest for Gensokyo if only a single, easily controlled youkai exterminator clan remained around. MiMi was a loose end, she died feeling doubly betrayed instead of having things explained to her because youkai are fucking dumb, and wha-bam. You've got a vengeful spirit on your hands.What happened between her and the First Gensokyo Shrine Maiden later presumably didn't help the matters either, but that's not something that's been explicated upon. Yet, hopefully.
>>50347176>if you want to make it all about honour and arbitrary rulesYou're the only one doing that. Mokou confronted Mizuchi, Mizuchi incapacitated Mokou. That is as straight forward a victory, within the context of this fight, as Mizuchi could achieve. It doesn't matter if Mizuchi wanted the fight, it happened and Mizuchi's immediate goal as a result was to escape or defeat Mokou, and she defeated Mokou.>No, she didn't. Yes she did. She admits to Suika that she has her own reasons for agreeing to Suika's proposition, and we know that Mizuchi hates the terms of peace which are driving the creation of modern Gensokyo. The story doesn't explicitly tell you she's false flagging because the story assumes the reader has literally any level of reading comprehension and as such can infer Mizuchi's ulterior motives. This is consistent with her character, as well.Of course most discussion regarding Mizuchi's backstory is kind of moot because it's garbage that refuses to commit to anything. Mizuchi can't be fully blamed because of Suika (who is barely involved in the story at all outside of being a plot device), the Hakurei can't be fully blamed because she tries to help Mizuchi, the youkai that actually kill her are all exterminated. The only thing her backstory tells us is that Mizuchi was always kind of a bitch I guess.
>>50347314Well, if you're going to make this about your personal inferences instead of what's on the page, then there's not really much for me to argue with. Good job killing the conversation, I guess.
>>50347379>if you're going to make this about your personal inferences instead of what's on the page>MiMi was actually coming around to it and beginning to sympathise with youkai Yeah, and you didn't pull this out of your ass.Fucking retarded ghost simp.
>>50347410The story assumes the reader has literally any level of reading comprehension and as such can infer Mizuchi's motives.
>>50347483Yes, Mizuchi, the girl famous for her sympathy towards youkai. Who explicitly said she doesn't consider youkai or Suika her friends.
>>50347078>Mizuchi engages in false flag attacks to undermine their survival attempts, she is killed by youkai. How dare they try to survive.Wasn't Mizuchi doing what Suika told her to do? Are you saying Suika is a race traitor?
>>50351147Not a race traitor but Suika was pretty obviously opposed to the Gensokyo plan too even if she personally capitulated in the end.
>>50343592Massive Patchouli fanservice
>>50352784Good, she deserves it.
>>50352784what's funny is Patchouli's behaved like this for basically every manga appearance, going back to when she completely ignores Eirin threatening to murder her over the rocket to the moon.The closest Patchouli's come to jobbing in a manga is probably when she got buried under a pile of books in the library for a day or so while marisa and the three fairies stole her books
>>50352842I enjoy her SA gag where she's able to research the youkai you fight and how to beat them remarkably fast, but not fast enough to actually give Marisa the relevant information until after she had already won.
>>50352842Bloomer upskirt
>>50343546Nothing ever happens
Satori is a kuso detective. Miles Edgeworth would have found the culprit in like 5 minutes.
>>50343546I actually rather liked it the whole way throughYeah I do miss the more mystery angle the OG Ginmokusei arc had and the transition between it and Akimaki Yuu "Labyrinth arc" CDS was ROUGH which is why we end up with jokes like "lol Alice is dead now" because she ended up being lost alongside the old plotline which is a mark against ZUNBut the Akimaki Yuu more battle manga plotline was fun, I think people worked themselves up just because updates were slow and there was so many twists and turns. Remember how absolutely assmad people got at the bit where Hatate gets her connection terminated and jumped straight to the immediate joke explanation given that Mizuchi was somehow hacking her and then several chapters later it was revealed Yukari was doing some spacial manipulation shit around the temple creating a mist that kept everyone trapped and that was casting massive interference on Hatate's spirit photography, some people still haven't made that connection yet but I don't blame them because the Hatate hacking and the reveal were several months spaced apartBut overall I quite enjoyed the chance to see so many old characters doing shit beyond a small visual cameo, like Parsee and Yamame getting a lot of solo scenes and a cool fight with Reimu. And I liked the characters actually fighting in a manga because Touhou is a setting that is incredibly suitable for this style of story because if you've ever played a Touhou game you'd know they just fight on the slightest provocation all the timeIt even inspired some fanmade battle mangas too by Fuuzasa no less! https://danbooru.donmai.us/pools/27245 I do not like my GOATs Marisa Kirisame and Fujiwara no Mokou jobbing
>>50343546The shonen fight scenes are exactly what I wanted to see out of a Touhou manga.
>>50371857Too bad CDS is a bad shonen.
>>50371880I'm just glad I got to see Byakuren throw down.
Shonenslop. Every minute spent reading this could be spent watching Wheelchair Detective Satori instead.
>>50371857This, more Touhouball Z and less Crapizou explaining boring Japanese drink trivia please.
>>50372485Dragonball's fights were never as devoid of emotional stakes as CDS's fights are.I mean maybe Super's were.
>>50372451Did Wheelchair Detective Satori come first?
>>50372485I just wish there was a bit more strategy in the fights in CDS. Something like that bit in DBZ where Goku charges the kamehameha but teleports to the ground at the last second so he can shoot it upwards instead of into the earthI just want something from Reimu where I can actually tell that she's been fighting youkai and resolving incidents for decades.
>>50376155I'd also like to point out the lack of real weight to the character driven element of the conflict. The final battle tries to push this "Gensokyo bad vs Gensokyo good" philosophical conflict, but the issue is that "Gensokyo bad" is predicated entirely on how bad you feel for a very contentious character whose backstory didn't even fully commit to saying anything, while the "Gensokyo good" argument is just never explored period right up until Reimu gives her laughably bad thesis. The fact that this is ultimately framed as a humanity issue is also kind of baffling when the story up until this point had zero interest in exploring the living conditions of humans in Gensokyo. Compare to some of Dragonball's most iconic fights (Goku vs Roshi being framed as an important step in preventing Goku from becoming complacent too early in his fighting career, Goku vs Tien being a culmination of Tien's face turn set up throughout the entire arc, Goku and Friends vs Vegeta being framed as this low class vs naturally talented elite conflict, so on and so forth) and it just feels narratively limp, partially as a consequence of ZUN being really bad at writing climaxes.
>>50376283True, that felt kind of superfluous when Mizuchi problem at the end of the day is her own grudge. She is a vengeful spirit after all.I think having a more character centered ending, where Reimu doesn't mentions humans or Gensokyo but instead her and Mizuchi's relationship, namely their lack of one, would be better.Have an ending where Reimu spares Mizuchi and says that going around causing chaos and getting into fights is the norm. But if Mizuchi has a problem with Reimu she shouldn't involve other people.Then Reimu points out Mizuchi doesn't even know her and is just projecting her feelings over Reimu's ancestor onto her. So they should start from scratch and get to know each other, then Mizuchi can decide is Reimu is somebody worthy to hold a grudge against.
>>50376155Same, that was always a major reason why Dragon Ball fights were so good besides really creative choreography>>50376283Yeah this. Though the problem is that requires a lot of character motives and development to be involved and sadly I think ZUN just doesn't like to do that I think because he wants other people to be free to do whatever they want in regards to characterization and drama like that. That's a problem with ZUN he wants to leave things open for the fans and ends up passing on a lot of interesting conflict he could try writing instead, plus with the format of the games being what they are he can't squeeze much into it either.Like I think Sanae and Reimu should have had a more antagonistic serious rivalry before they become friends and we get the half-serious purely business rivalry we see in WaHH and you could argue that's what their fight in MoF is but that's barely anything and gets auto-resolved afterwards
>>50376415But isn't Reimu upholding the system that Mizuchi was railing against?
>>50381576I always just figured that was an excuse for Mizuchi and that her real problem was her unresolved feelings of betrayal towards the Hakurei.
>>50372825Only 2nd
>>50343546
>>50343546Stopped being good after they switched artists.
