What you like about Touhou?And what you don't like about Touhou?
>>51068978The idea of the setting.The fans.
>>51069054The western fans are the bad ones. The chinese and japanese are extremely better.
>>51068978Everything. The setting is so immersive and intertextual and you can kind of do whatever you want with it as long as you aren't greedy. A franchise like it literally does not exist outside of Touhou. Everything else that is the next """""Touhou Killer""""" is just more gachaslop mulled over by board members in suits, and something like Undertale/Deltarune is still too tightly gripped by Toby to have the same creative license as TouhouHow uptight some /jp/ people can get and how performative activist loser some Xitter fans can get. So really nothing inherent about it, I'm ride or die
>>51069075NTA but I think he's talking about the general bullshit from this community, west and eastAnd it's mostly>pc-98 vs windows>fanon vs canon>secondaries>bootlickers vs dogpillers (think of sonic fans without myriad of adaptations)
>>51068978>likeMost things, even if I'm a little iffy on content that's more adjacent to the games at times. I like most characters, enjoy the thematics, the music, and spread of atmospheres that can be found in setting. Those posters/posts that drop multi post encyclopedic dumps on real world inspirations and talk of Shinto topics that I fail to comprehend and follow properly as I get lost in a sea of Shinto god names and ancient religious traditions that predate Shinto or was merged with it over time.>dislikeLike the other anon says, the fans, but that's usually the case with anything now days thanks to social media. I also dislike how Lost Word is basically just a medicore fan game that lucked out on a licensing which managed to shove it's way into such a constant focus thanks to the crippling gacha culture Asians seem to have. It's one thing to say and know it's not canon, it's another to constantly see it to such an extent you start questioning things at times and that a lot of younger fans seem to use it as their main and only avenue into the franchise. >>51069631I assume this is what most people mean when they say "fans bad" for pretty much anything. New vs Old, canon vs fanon, roblox tertiaries if things are truly fucked, etc. Asians are inherently less obnoxious than the west's more robust in your face retardation, but that's really only due to the language barriers involved and natural segregation between websites, but then you have stuff like art and art trends that give a glimpse into the minds of people, and art immediately transcends language barriers when you can see what the artists is putting out.
>>51068978I like the music and the charactersI dislike that fans think of it as one continuous setting and not a bunch of individual works using the same idea. I also dislike that it is vertical instead of horizontal but I admit it probably shows off some designs better. I just prefer horizontal STG. I really do not like how it has seemingly replaced any other sort of fan game with people making 2hu + game for a quick buck instead of seasonal anime + game or just some original thing.
I like almost everything about Touhou, but to pick something instead of giving a generic, edgeless answer, I'm gonna go with the actual mainline games. When they are good, they are extremely satisfying and scratch my itch like no other games do.Now as to what I don't like... Well, at some point zun stopped giving a fuck and since some games back quality has gone down, and that includes the satisfying gameplay part. I really wish he offloaded anything he doesn't want to do himself instead of half assing it. We already get enemy sprites done by someone else, so what's the holdup? If he's too old or tired to care, then why not design characters and compose music and leave the rest to someone else? This is already a thing with fighting games and that incoming remaster, why not extend this approach to everything?
>>51068978I like every single piece of official Touhou media.I don't like how some "fans" only care about older games and stop pretending the franchise exists after 6, 8, 12, etc.
>>51068978>What you like about Touhou?The games>And what you don't like about Touhou?People who claim to be fans but don't even play the games
>>51068978I got into it through the arranges so the music will always hold a special place for me. Really, the dedication of the arrange community was and still is something amazing to me. Talented people who could easily have their own musical careers, putting in the time and effort to basically cover video game music. Finding out about this scene was like discovering a gold mine back when I was looking for fresh new music to listen to all those years ago.I got into the characters and art second. I gave the games an honest try (and managed to only finish EoSD and MoF, and close to finishing a few others, all on normal with an embarrassing amount of tries) but I was just terrible at them overall. Was still cool hearing what I could of the original songs in their original context.
>>51068978I like the games and the manga.Don't like the fanbase. More like tranbase lmao.
>>51068978Everything about the game except actually playing the game, because I suck at Bullet Hells. My only worry is that I'll grow out of liking the franchise, but I'm in my mid-twenties rn, so fat chance.What I guess I don't like is that I have to learn Japanese to really get fully involve din the community. The Western community is fine, but then you have people like >>51069075 that lead me to believe "Hey, maybe the Asian communities are actually better". Or maybe it's a grass is greener phenomenon.
>>51068978In order: characters, gameplay, music, setting, doujins, other official materialDon't like secondaries and porn addicts
>>51068978+:nice music remixesnice fanart-: windows era danmaku entries have boring gameplay. why other shmups just do it better?worst kinds of communities lazy, inconsistent writing ZUN's dumb taboo on rarely including stuff from pc-98 erathe fans are everywhere I gothe fans rarely respect the characters anyway so it's a grating experience of nothing ever changing except when some character gets backstory bonus
>>51069075You don't know shit, parrot.
>>51069774>I don't like how some "fans" only care about older games and stop pretending the franchise exists after 6, 8, 12, etc.Desu, 7 is the reboot of the franchise since it's that game where it turned the whole setting into what we know today. It's a double-edge sword so I kinda understand why.>>51070185>lazy, inconsistent writingCan you explain why it's the case? I assume it's a manga exclusive since the games' writing is usually self-contained anyway.
>>51069631You mean fat vs skinny Patche right? Which do you prefer? Which do you think is canon?>>51068978The games (official and fangames)the music (official and arrangement shown in fangames)the manga (official and some made from fans)the setting and characters. All of that I like.Dislike? The fact that the franchise has crossovers with the stuff Toby Fox makes, but he is friendly with ZUN so I cannot be too mad about it.
>>51068978Like:The (older) games, (older) characters, music, setting. Hell, even the print works and manga. There are also some really good fangames.Dislike:The newer games, the newer characters, and secondaries. Touhoufest really brought all of them out of the woodwork.
>>51070215Even the most annoying inmufag is better than the average westoid moralfag
>>51070979Again, you don't know shit. You're a brown faggot who hasn't interacted with the Japanese nor Chinese communities. The Chinese are total shitheads, by the way.
>>51070979>Even the most annoying inmufag is better than the average westoid moralfagThat's correct, not because you are right, but because inmufags and inmu as a subculture is beyond dead, retard.
>>51069698>Asians are inherently less obnoxious than the west's more robust in your face retardation, but that's really only due to the language barriers involved and natural segregation between websitesNot him but I think we tend to put the JP community on a pedestal because it's the "source". It's hard not to see why when pretty much all the content, official or fan made, comes from there. I think part of that just comes down to western Touhou creators being less numerous, less dedicated, and arguably less talented than the JP ones as a whole but I think you're also right in that westerners are their own brand of extremely vocal retardation and that tends to prevent coexistence. Even if we had the talent of the JP community, we'd find a way to sabotage ourselves with culture war bullshit or whatever is the divisive topic of the time.It does make me wonder if Japanese hubs of discussion also have vastly different cultures like we do with places like Reddit. Maybe they have their own obnoxious elements that they dislike, though I can't see anyone there looking at the western fandom and thinking that it's so much better than their own because where are they even going to look to find it, right?
>>51070673>Touhoufest really brought all of them out of the woodworkSomebody's mad they couldn't put enough pesos together to go. It's ok anon, work really hard next year and we might let you stay in the /jp/ mansion.
>>51068978>likemusic first and foremost, the characters second, and the games third. the liminal reality gensokyo exists in and how it relates to the real world and the vibe that gives as if touhou exists between things, which feels like a reflection of reality in a distinctly real way. a great introduction into japanese mythology, shinto, and japanese culture in general.>dislikethe way ZUN has handled touhou's copyright.the difference in types of fans and the constant bitching that elicits with no solution offered. the cultural and language barriers that stops others, and for a while myself, from having a clear understanding that still isn't perfect after being a fan for over 10 years. the literal mountain of every kind of hentai imagineable for a series made by the most innocent japanese man one could imagine(not moralfagging, i've never been able to sexualize it myself because that's what i see. ZUN is the opposite of a sex pest).ZUN's negligence in preserving his own creations.the fact that it's taken this long to start recreating the games with such a diehard fanbase - from the moment i fell in love with touhou i've wanted a comprehensive danmakufu style game that would allow users to create and upload their own levels/games, creating a more comprehensive experience and preserve the games in a way where everything can be interchangeable.
>>51072350>the way ZUN has handled touhou's copyright.YOU SAID IT SISTER!! ZUN SHOULD BAN EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE FROM MAKING FANWORKS!!!
>likethe games obviouslycanon yurihus in newer titles like hisamistory and charcters>dislikeall of the shitskin brownoids playing my aryan game, zun should shut down all access to the games outside of japan, usa, canada and europelolitrannies thinking they're one of us, blue archive is down the hall to the left
>>51068978Like: These days mostly just the games and most characters.As for fanworks mostly just doujins and fanarts and handful of games. I never really liked the other aspects. Dislike: People who take it too seriously.People who take their own opinions as the universal truth. People who will shit-on/praise everything Zun does.People who bring IRL shit (politics etc.)Extreme coomersAnd (based on some replies from this thread) people who have never interacted in depth with the Japanese side of the community who think that the grass is that much greener on that side. The effects it had on the broader shmup community where it feels like most shmups after Touhou became famous, took heavy inspiration from it. I don't mind Touhou styled gameplay but I feel like there used to be more variety, though that really might just be me.
>>51072407>Dislike:>People who take it too seriously.>People who take their own opinions as the universal truth.>People who will shit-on/praise everything Zun does.>People who bring IRL shit (politics etc.)>Extreme coomersI wish we had more fans like you instead of third world trannies on xitter saying "ZUN PLLEEEEEEAAAAAAASSEEEE BAN EVERYWAN I DISLIKE BECAUSE ITS NOT LE HECKIN DOUJIN CULTURE THAT IM THE EXPERT ON PPLEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEEEE ALSO IMPREGNATE ME"
I mostly like engaging with the games themselves. The Windows titles up to 11 play very smoothly, however the PC-98 titles are a hit or miss for me. The sheer amount of good music (both fan and official) is also another thing I like.I dislike the constant amount of back and forth which happens in the community, which never leads to any actual change and only exists for the sake of feeling "superior". There is of course always room for discussion, however throwing shit and piss (figuratively) like retards is not proper discussion and won't create change. Consuming actual Touhou media will feel better than doing that.
>>51072350>the way ZUN has handled touhou's copyright>the cultural and language barriers that stops others>the literal mountain of every kind of hentai imagineable for a series made by the most innocent japanese man one could imagineYou're not Japanese and never will be, you're always be some retarded ESL third worlder.
>>51072412Go back to /bant/, turky
>>51068978>LOVEI LOVE Satorin! Her soft pink hair, her smugness, her assets (sometimes lack thereof!), and her being rape-coded! I want to marry Satorin and then have an affair with Koishi! I want to get them BOTH pregnant and then skip town, forcing them to raise the children as single mothers!>likeThe games, especially SA, IN, PoFV, and PC-98 as a whole. The manga is pretty fun too, even when Whaletits is being a nothingburger. Why haven't there been more physical English releases? I own all of Forbidden Scrollery and would jump at the chance to buy anything else. Seems like a missed opportunity on ZUN's part.>don't likeNewhus. The FW designs are especially abysmal (except Michigan, she's alright). They were basically forgotten in a week, and for good reason! I don't blame ZUN for stagnating as a creator: it happens to everyone. I do wish he would accept more help/input from fans instead of doing dumb shit like using AI. Maybe this EoSD remake will be a step in the right direction?
>>51072369no, ZUN's decision to paywall his music at the highest quality ie youtube sucks ass and i'm sure you know his lawyer is a bitch. the way he has strongarmed other fanworks (ie Jinx's complete remakes of the PC 98 games) either directly or indirectly out of existence sucks too. ZUN could've very easily utilized his fanbase in the west to gain massive amounts of traction but he only has ever seemed focused on japan. it's nice however that unofficial works are able to be bought *now* so there's actual money going into the production of fan content, ensuring more can sustainably be created by fans, but you know he could've done that much sooner. >>51072715okay sakoto_enjoyer1488, i'm sure the color of my skin and my country of origin is relevant in this conversation to you, but that's just the pot calling the kettle black. why try to grasp for straws with "ur ESL" when the dichotomy is between the japanese fanbase and literally everyone else? when it comes down to it, perhaps it's just a jealousy of what the japanese have in being it's true target audience, but how does that make you or anyone else who does not fully understand japanese any different than me in this situation?
>>51073240NTA but if you had been more clear at the start instead of vagueposting then you wouldn't be in this position to begin with.
>>51073240If there's something troonhou fans like more than kids and not playing the games it sure is shit that never happened!Why are you acting like the copyright strike was this LE BIG COVERUP BY ZOON and if you even utter the name of chiyuri the CIA will come to your house and buttrape you. It was one slip up from zuns notably retarded lawyer that hasnt happened since kek. It was a stupid fucking decision yes but thats what it was and nothing more. So stop trying to make it into something more. Oh I forgot that your a raped little brown esl and you won't understand this
What constitutes newhus? From Ten Desires or after?
>>51073719Depends on who you ask. For me newhus are everything after HSiFS but most would probably say LoLK (I think).
Why do people keep saying muh fanbase? It has nothing to do with Touhou itself. Retards.
>what you don't like The newer mangas are horrible, and some of the side games & 19 suck. Besides that, everything's pretty good.
>>51073746Well, if you yourself stopped to think for a minute you would realize you're also complaining about fans right now, but critical thinking clearly isn't the strong suit of most of the people here who seem to prefer jumping into a thread and heading right to insults instead of considering yes, most people have a nuanced definition of what they dislike but aren't always going to give a detailed report just to avoid stepping on eggshells and triggering those few notable individuals on /jp/ like you who like to shit things up whenever they get a chance.
>>51073759>words words words
>>51073672>>51073760>your *you'rehang yourself
the people who bitch incessantly about the fanbase are 90% of the time turbo secondaries themselves
>>51069208I'd say a lot of jpsies can get pretty performative too. Even if the uptight individuals that border on trying to dictate others are often standout annoyances at times.
>>51068978is like starwars but without the limits, meaning it keeps expanding.
>>51073925>starwarsAnd how appropriate. If you told me that it's Star Wars but Japanese then I believe you.
>>51074025>>51073925I find that genuinly offensive.To Star Wars. At least Star Wars has likeable characters.
>>51073746NTA, but Touhou is a doujin series first and foremost. The fact that the fandom makes almost nothing but fucking trash is a issue.
>>51073818They are just fandom tsunderes!They do as if they didn't like fandom but are secretly(?) obsessed over fanarts and fan discussion.>>51073746Considering how much people care about just fanworks vs also official stuffs...You would probably have to be explicit if you want to just talk about official stuff.
>>51073754Personally I kind of like the shonenslop one. I want to see more fight scenes between characters.
>>51068978My favorite thing about Touhou is that its a franchise that you can feasibly evolve with. Not that i'm above being entertained or enthralled by the same stories as I was a child or a teenager, nor am I claiming ZUN is making the most profound works out there, rather, there's a clear distinction between ZUN, the 20-something Taito dev shoving more or less obvious references to otaku works of his time, to ZUN, the 40-something indie star who, despite having made a hit, still had to adapt and engage with society, has had more time to "live", and reflects it in this grand tribute to Japanese culture with occasional commentary on how the world around him is evolving, through his own lens (as underdeveloped, sometimes unfitting, uninformed, and controversial his takes can be). I think the sum of it all is easy to relate to as you grow older, even if you've created very little yourself. To see something like this out of a video game franchise feels very unique.Excluding the more meta reasons that I have issues with (namely tribalism, and an abstract feeling of loneliness and dissatisfaction from simultaneously being swarmed with fan content from one side, and starving for it on the other. At the risk of repeating myself, I'm not blaming anyone for this phenomenon), I think the bi-yearly, if not sometimes yearly schedule ZUN imposes on himself, while satisfying in a way, as you often have something to look forward to as a fan, may be holding him back at times. More through quality control and play testing wouldn't hurt, especially when some cases are pretty avoidable. As of right now, it seems the Reitaisei demo to Comiket pipeline usually fixes the biggest/most glaring issue people may have had with the demo, like how Sakuya in UM was completely dogshit and was reworked to have the best damage output in the full game, or how Wonder Stones got a little less bulky from demo to the full game. I don't think this would compromise his overall vision, and it'd make for a better game overall. Improving mediocre cards in UM or bad stone shots in FW could have improved these games by a fair bit, since they're so driven by their potential replayability. Didn't mention UDoALG because that game's a mess that would have needed more than just a few fixes (which it technically did get, if only to make some characters a bit stronger and Chiyari less absurd).
>>51074174>they're unlikable because trannies on xitter told me they areGo back, I know you haven't touched a single game kek.
>>51074543unlikable =/= bad characteralso name one likable character that's not ruined?
>>51074543They're unlikable because they are horrible people. Mind you, that's not a inherent problem. The games are first and foremost a comedy. If it makes you laugh (It rarely does, but hey the attempt is there) then the characters being dicks is not a issue. However, it does make it hard when I read the manga and they suddenly expect me to care about what happens. >>51074786>unlikable =/= bad characterAlso that. I like most of the cast despite everything.
>>51074786>unlikable =/= bad characterThis. Take Byakuren for example. A con woman with delusions of grandeur and more willful ignorance than your average polital chatroom, but her motivations are very logical and, ironically, human. She's a great character and I hate her.
>>51074786>>51074934I think some are likeable in their own way, however since most of /jp/ is autistic and needs everything to be black and white for them to understand they won't understand it
>>51075039What doujins were you reading
I love the games and I'm not a 1cc'er. I suck compared to a lot of people I started playing with but they're satisfying af. I also like the lore and the character designs. Sorry for the basic bitch answer but...
>>51075072Which goes into something I hate about Touhou, that I will never have a valuable discussion about it in my lifetime, I'm tired of discussing it with mentally ill brown turboautists (not the intelligent, endearing kind mind you) who pretend they're smart and normal people. The only media that toohootrannies interact with outside of Touhou is porn and it shows. When 4chan shuts down in 2028 I think it will be better but then again I can only hope.
>>51075099see >>51073818
>>51075072>I think some are likeable in their own way,Some, sure. But they are rare and mostly older characters like Keine and Mokou.
>>51074174Both latch on to a medium for all ages and call everyone who disagrees with them fake fans. Both are filled with larpers who never touched their series they claim to love. Both have fanbases that are filled with illiterates since they never experienced basic media literacy. Both have creators who are hacks yet their personal army would still lick their shoes as if what they did were delicacies. Both have VERY questionable pornography if implied in the real world. Both are insanely popular and have cultural impact in their own home country while their fanbase treats their franchises as some kind of sekret relic just because they're more popular in their said origin than viceversa.
>>51078061>fanbase>>51073818
>>51078069>turbo secondaries It's called "tertiary" you autist.
>>51078073you can just not post when you can't think of anything
>>51078061How does any of that apply to Star Wars when engaging with the core content is simply watching the movies which isn't a very huge commitment, and almost all of the secondary media it has (games, spinoffs) is wildly popular. I feel like you're also drastically overestimating how popular Touhou is in the current year when you attempt to compare it to a global monolith like Star Wars which has been going strong, even with it's current dogshit state, for almost 50 years now. Even the most diehard Star Wars fans will also denounce a majority of the Disney era stuff. It's as far detached from "sekrit relic" as you can possibly get and makes the entire point of your post feel like it didn't even have a point it was trying to make. If this was about Star Trek, especially the good/bad/liked/disliked character aspect, I'd understand with how contentious it gets as early as TNG and DS9, and progressively more "old good new bad" with each new series. Something that's essentially a foundational pillar of global modern pop culture though, like Star Wars, just does not fit here when trying to sell some secret club narrative.
>norm warsGod, how do people this insufferable even make their way into posting here.
Gameplay thread: quite emptyPMiSS readalong thread: OP lost motivation to make a second thread and nobody followed (barely any interaction)Demon vs Youkai in Touhou thread: Most people seem like they would rather use as a source their local Jehovah's witnesses for 2hu lore than to poke canon with 10 foot pole.But nooo everyone here Loooooves canon because canon=good, secondary=bad because of course the otaku board would have people caring a lot about what others think what they like.>>51075093>Sorry for the basic bitch answer but...Someone who isn't complaining nor feels dishonest?! idk I feel there are barely any answers like yours ITT.>>51078175I would ask about the quote but... yeah, idk why starwarz.But idk people here barely mention anything Japanese beyond the normiest of shit and whatever ZUN picked for inspiration.Western shit is also usually pretty mainstream stuff too.
>>51078144Did chatgpt wrote this?
>>51068978>What you like about Touhou?The music and fan creations.Many people put the fanbase under the negative umbrella, but I really like the creativity of Touhou fans.I like to lurk /jp/ and there's usually a nice thread in /wsg/ to enjoy the content produced by fans.>And what you don't like about Touhou?No strong dislikes.I'm an eternal tertiary, so I guess that I "don't like" the gameplay, because I would need to play it to like it. I've played other shmups, but only easy ones as a kid...
>>51078061>Both are filled with larpers who never touched their series they claim to loveMost Star Wars fans have PROBABLY watched the movies. Granted, I'm reasonably certain a lot of Legacy fans never go any deeper than playing Knights of the Old Republic and MABYE reading the Thrawn trilogy. Also while Star Wars discourse is fucked I feel most people's view of George Lucas is healthier now than it's ever been.
>>51080838What's a secondary and what's a tertiary? I don't understand these terms.
>>I really like how there's fangames of every genre From like Touhou Rhythm Carnival to VNs and Yoiyami Dancers(Necrodancer but faster), Yoiyami Biscuit(nuclear throne and slay the spire), but this really really high potential and fun release that's literally Touhou Civilization called Tohotopia is 3 bucks and I can even teach casual friends that dunno what civ is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFj7XZvVRUwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR5sM4qt67s
>>51068978>LikeShooting at girls drawn so poorly that the art is cute and endearing while subconsciously advancing my state of awareness by increasing my familiarity with universal pattern.>Hateany of the vs shooter games.
>>51081001I don't think that there's a strict definition. Just that I'm even further removed from the source material than the average person that a "real fan" would call a "fake fan".
>>51081001>>51085199Simply put, you are a secondary if you don't play the games. Not quite sure what the difference is between secondary and tertiary.
>>51071202>It does make me wonder if Japanese hubs of discussion also have vastly different cultures like we do with places like Reddit. Maybe they have their own obnoxious elements that they dislike, though I can't see anyone there looking at the western fandom and thinking that it's so much better than their own because where are they even going to look to find it, right?I guarantee you they do, we just don't see it since most of us don't speak Japanese.
>>51068978the lolis
>>51078112he just posted the name for someone who is a level below secondary, although a true tertiary might only know of the series in passing.
>>51085318To elaborate, this anon means that a secondary/tertiary does not play the games made by Team Shanghai Alice and Twilight Frontier.
>>51068978>likemusic, writing, games, and characters. pretty much everything then>dislikewesterners, the constant futa and yuri in fanworks, and the lack of good hentai/art of my gensokyo wifeys
>>51100272It's because of westerners that I only play Japanese fangames. Though I purchased the first two Makuka Sai games before knowing that they were made in Taiwan. Of course, that makes me an hypocrite, if you consider the fact that I like X-Men Mutant Apocalypse and the SNES version of Batman Returns, for example.
>>51099982One of the anons in that dogshit discord cult thread linked to some post criticizing Yukari and claiming that they're "hating yukari and gensokyo". Yeah the other anon who made this was shit, but imagine saying that any form of criticism is a form of hate. It's as if secondaries are malding that their sacred cow got pointed out and they're going full white knight, without knowing the context. Fucking amerimutt meme.
>>51101589western fangames can be good, i recently realized. i played that cirno fangame and Lensed Night Sky at touhoufest last month and they were great games despite Lensed Night Sky being developed by troons. other fangames i passed by there also looked neat
