I played most of the th games, got a 1cc, but I don't know if I still should keep being a fan of the series.Most characters would kill you given the chance, or atleast view you as inferior, and I find it weird to be attached to someone like that. And while such entities dont make up the entire series, the characters are interconnected, so you can't really be a fan of few while ignoring the others. Only with the Hifuu CDs you can maybe do that.Why ZUN couldn't have made a setting where everyone gets along?
>>51118160Being a fan of a series or aspect of any media work does not mean you have to endorse the ideas that appear within it. It does not mean you would have to like the characters if they were real. Your fanship can be independent of your personality and beliefs.There's more to Touhou than its canon. You could always be a fan of the music, setting or even secondary works. There's plenty of cutesokyo material out there.
>>51118206>There's more to Touhou than its canon. You could always be a fan of the music, setting or even secondary works. There's plenty of cutesokyo material out there.I know, but still not canon....
And I cant really find other replacements
>>51118160This is why you take the doujin spirit ZUN has so overtly embraced himself and create your own headcanon using the games as a framework. Just be smart enough to draw a distinct line between canon and your own mental machinations when it comes to discussion so you don't make the mistake others do of treating their headcanon like official business. There's a reason almost every piece of fan content with Touhou starts with a disclaimer it's not a true representative of ZUN's official works and they're strictly derivative in nature. Work that brain of yours, set up your own mental gensokyo playground.Or start smoking opium. If it was good enough for DiPP it's good enough for everyone!
>fell for grimsokyo bait
>>51118962Opium is for magical hags that can handle it without issue, not humans.
>>51118257This obsession with "canon" is a genuine mental illness. You do realise Touhou is fiction, right? None of it is real. Whether zun puts an endorsement with his copyright ownership stamp or not isn't relevant in any way to the fact that it's all make believe. Do you like an idea represented by the fiction or are you more interested in worshipping a copyright holder?
>>51118160>Most characters would kill you given the chance, or atleast view you as inferior, and I find it weird to be attached to someone like thatYou think irl females aren't like that?
>>51118966If I'm not right then how you view the setting?
wow this shithole is so dead
Respond gays coz Im curious how you cope with this. Also idk elsewhere to post this question
>>51118160>Most characters would kill you given the chanceOnly specified man-eating youkai would kill you, and even then both Renko and Maribel visited SDM and got out with a bag of cookies, so it's not like they're guaranteed to maul you on sight either>Why ZUN couldn't have made a setting where everyone gets along?Everyone canonically becomes friends after the events of every game and regularly have banquets together. Read the multiple official manga if you want SoL canon Touhou content
>>51120635>Only specified man-eating youkai would kill you, and even then both Renko and Maribel visited SDM and got out with a bag of cookies, so it's not like they're guaranteed to maul you on sight eitherBut Akyuu says you should beware like 90% of the yokai characters
>>51118257canon has changed greatly over the years. not even ZUN takes it seriously, so just do what you want to do
>>51120809It got grimer over the years methinks
>>51120783Akyuu is an unreliable narrator and works alongside Yukari to maintain the balance of fear of youkai in GensokyoTake everything she says with a grain of salt. Read Forbidden Scrollery if you want more details
>>51120820The thing is, not all yokai substained on human fear, some only needed simple belief, so why did ZUN make seem like almost everyone is a man eater?
>>51118160Man what are you talking about Kageyama Hina is right there, literally the nicest cutest human loving youkai there is, really all of the first 3 stage bosses in MoF would make good wives to human men
>>51120842Shes a god
>>51119526>how you view the setting?It is what it is.
>>51120846God, youkai, same difference, the point is there are 2hus that canonically accept human seed gratefully
>>51120850I didnt really like her anyways
>>51120853Uhm theres a difference but you're prob too goonbrained to care abt it
>>51120831>why did ZUN make seem like almost everyone is a man eaterTouhou has over a hundred characters and less than 20 have been confirmed to eat humans. Considering Gensokyo is a land of monsters, i'd say that's pretty good
>>51120914>less than 20 have been confirmed to eat humansThese ones being.....
>>51120931how about you research the characters yourself, lazy bum
>>51120860gods are youkai but not all youkai are gods
>>51120946From my own research, besides ones like Rumia or Kasen it is left rather ambigous.
>>51120842Also Im pretty sure Hina would involuntarely flood you with misfortune.Not her fault thought.
>>51118160>Most characters would kill you given the chance, or atleast view you as inferior, and I find it weird to be attached to someone like that.Where's your drive to prove them otherwise? They are the ones forced to live in the reservation, while you have the resources of an entire world to better yourself!
>>51120850>She says this, when she made the spell card system specifically to prevent the needless killing from continuingReimu isn't as big a jerk as she outwardly holds herself.
>>51119421NTA but there is an argument to be made to retain a minimum amount of a work's themes across mediums lest you end up with the disasters of modern entertainment media. You deviate too hard from the sauce and suddenly you've got yourself a Netflix Cowboy Beebop. Or the unfortunate fates of Doctor Who and Star Trek, who lost the point as to why anyone liked them to begin with.ZUN's stamp of approval means bunk all the same however. He gave it to Lost Word.
>>51123726Licensing doesn't mean approval in terms of continuity, nor is LW canon in any way.
>>51123726>He gave it to Lost Word.Truly the worst timeline. >>51123843That's half the point he was trying to make, wasn't it?. It's a dumpster fire half because it's a kusoge and half because it's just rampant multiverse fanfiction gone awry. The problem is some retards look at it as being "officially licensed!" and just treat it like it's an official game in the full sense, just look how they treat it during the yearly popularity poll vs the actual mainline games. The fact it got that stamp just devalues the stamp.
>>51124067>some retards look atWho cares? It's not canon and isn't meant to be. Licensing =/= authorship. Just because someone paid to use the name doesn't give them agency over the IP. This is completely normal and expected. Rings of Power isn't canon to the Lord of the Rings despite much more money being involved. The Witcher TV show isn't canon to the books or the games. Money changing hands doesn't automagically give a work legitimacy. No matter what Americans m try to tell you.
>>51123689Prove otherwise what?
>>51123726The existence of the netflix cowboy bebop doesn't in any way affect the existence of the original cowboy bebop. I didn't watch the netflix version because I already got the story and I've no interest in hearing the same story or a variation of it with a different visual aesthetic. If it commits "sacrilege" against the original I don't care. If people think it sucks of its own merits, that's fine. If people who never watched the anime like the show of its own merits, all the power to them. None of this changes the fact that any fictional narrative begins and ends with itself. Cowboy Bebop is Cowboy Bebop and Netflix Cowboy Bebop is Netflix Cowboy Bebop. Both are complete and utter make-believe, works of fiction that only exist within themselves.
>>51124819The latter point remains however; If Touhou can mean anything and be written by anyone themes be damned, then you've ironically just reduced it to a brand all the same. Cookie is as good a representation of Touhou under this light as WaHH.
>>51126517No.
I'm a fan of Touhou because the matches always strike good and true. What's this "canon" you people keep talking about? They're mascots on a box.
>>51126526Why not?
>>51121108Last I read about it, youkai are more like a weird science experiment made by the moonies through themselves reverse-engineering their own divinity. The Lunarians went where there be dragons, saw there were no dragons, so they decided to make some to populate the place themselves.
>>51126517The thing that self-proclaimed "primaries" don't get is that Touhou is long, LONG past the threshold where it has any solid themes or foundations in the way dedicated literary media has them, because it was never based in writing to begin with. In that respect, Lost Word is actually faithful to its current form as a series of names and shapes you can slap onto fucking anything and proclaim that it is in the doujin spirit. ZUN arguably did it himself when he shifted from the PC-98 era to the Windows era. The references to folklore and mythology and characterizations he wrote are all in service to his MUSIC (as are the games themselves), which is what he deems to be the "core" of Touhou. If Cookie can somehow evoke the themes of his MUSIC in spite of having a completely different context to Gensokyo, then it is in fact, Touhou. If Lost Word can, it is also Touhou even if a very lazy and jank Touhou that is only written to make sense in moments.
>>51126517Were ancient orally transmitted folk tales considered "brands" because they were a framework that just about anyone could pick up and retell their way?Or are you playing mental gymnastics while ignoring the fact that your obsession with canon, authorial ownership and official narratives is a product of a purely commodified consumer culture framework?
It appears we need Black Tewi to school some individuals in this thread.
>>51126944You want to talk about folk tales, where Minamoto no Yoshitsune morphs into Genghis Khan, be my guest... Yet do not be surprised when most people ask you what in the world are you talking about when you start attributing the deeds of the former to the latter, especially the admirers of Temüjin.
>>51119421Specifying that you like Touhou for the lore ZUN wrote or that you like his story isn't inherently a bad thing...But I feel people who call others secondaries using their knowledge of the lore, and then putting a strong emphasis on playing all the games which are willing to contradict it at will (most notably the disconnect between how Nitori acts in them versus how she acts in the manga) are doing so purely for clout reasons. As for me, I am a staunch follower in Hirasaka Makoto's perception of Gensokyo. In this house, fairies bleed and are made predominantly of FLESH. Not P-Points. And certainly not ice!
>>51126685Does primaries refer to people who primarily play the games or people who primarily engage with any official media (so printworks too) as opposed to fandom? I think it’s the former but I’m not 100% sure. It would be really funny for people to hold up the games as THE way to understand Touhou and know its characters and setting when 95% of the characters get like 5 lines of dialogue.
>>51126970You're conflating memetic consistency with authorial authority as if they're one and the same. Please don't argue in poor faith, that sort of shitposting belongs on more newfag priented boards.
>>51127006No, I concede that is >>51126685 probably correct that ZUN's authorial authority, is that he has no real authorial authority beyond his own particular "branch" of Touhou's story, yet when most people on this board are talking about "Touhou", they assume you mean that and not any of the derivative works. Pretending there is no difference between being a fan of Official Touhou and being a fan of the far-removed derivatives like KHTA and Cookie when they share nothing between each other besides names and character designs is being intentionally obtuse. You might as well call Kiki Kaikai fans Touhou fans because Bakebake appears in both and Pocky looks and acts about as much like Reimu as some of her doujin derivatives.
>>51126997>>51126998FYI, a major reason the lorefags want you to play the games is/was because there was a good amount of story and characterization locked behind the endings, and it used to be that spoiling said endings was a serious offense, especially in the Japanese community.
>>51127015>Pretending there is no difference between being a fan of Official Touhou and being a fan of the far-removed derivatives like KHTA and Cookie when they share nothing between each other besides names and character designs is being intentionally obtuse. They share the MUSIC. The MUSIC is what defines Touhou, more than whether Reimu is a Shrine Maiden or a schoolgirl.Touhou's literary works are nothing but a guideline to help set the mood, and if an entirely different writing is capable of accomplishing the same task, it is kosher as far as authorial intent is concerned.
Secondaries are fucking insane. LW isn't canon, never was canon, never will be canon. It's a derivative work. A licensed, third party spin-off. It is quite literally not an entry in the series. Same goes for Cookie, except doubly. Neither of these is part of the Touhou canon. No matter what mental backflips you execute.What the hell is wrong with acknowledging that, anyway? You can still enjoy derivative works, even if they're separate from the actual series. Hell, you should be glad they depart from the official depiction of Gensokyo and aren't beholden to it, since you seem to hate it so much. So why the insistence? Utterly baffling.
Touhou is just derivative fanfic of Japanese folklore. Zun is a secondary.
>>51126944You're arguing Touhou has no real framework to it beyond iconography. Are you an actual fan of the series, or just like staring at the colours red and white?>>51127153Under their eyes, "Touhou" is whatever thing they liked that has the 東方 sticker on it.
The only thing you will find in a black tewi thread is paragraphs of secondary apologetics.
>>51127253>You're arguing Touhou has no real frameworkWhere?It does have a framework. Like all folklore does, which is based on the collective cultural consciousness built around it.
>>51127153If you go by what ZUN intended when he made the franchise, everything is secondary to the music. The stories and the games are just merchandise meant to make people discover that music, the equivalent of the blurb on an 80s action figure box to give some context as to what it's meant to represent. People who get hung up on canon yet don't listen to the songs miss the point of Touhou more than a fag who has bought one of ZUN's music CDs yet can't name a single spellcard.
>>51127278>This obsession with "canon" is a genuine mental illness. You do realise Touhou is fiction, right? None of it is real. Whether zun puts an endorsement with his copyright ownership stamp or not isn't relevant in any way to the fact that it's all make believe. Sounds to me like the same tired excuse to chuck all story verisimilitude out of the window. Sure, anything can happen in fiction and there are no writing police to come arrest you if you decide to entirely disregard cause and effect to play with your action figures, but the people who are attached to that fiction are under no obligation to entertain you or accept you for it. >>51127280Great. Don't go into a thread discussing that specific story and tell them it doesn't matter and expect for them to agree.
>>51127317If you are actively driving people away from interacting with the music because they can't recall the geopolitics behind Reimu whacking the furry crime bosses of Hell, you are opposing the intent of Touhou.
Imagine caring about Touhou canon when ZUN himself doesn't give a shit about it and barely remembers anything he writes
>>51127547True. We still don't know why Eirin was surprised to see Sakuya. And we still don't know why Junko developed an interest in Reisen.
>>51127654The reason we don't know is because ZUN himself doesn't knowHe admitted he writes shit on a whim and doesn't care for setting up proper storylines. The reason for any plot points he introduces literally don't exist until the exact moment he actually writes about it, so worrying about anything related to canon lore or story in Touhou is a waste of time as there's no actual thought put into any of it. Touhou canon is whatever ZUN feels like on a random tuesday
>>51127048NTA, but no, you're as fake as the proclaimed "secondary" boogeyman. You and your shitty posts about "DA MUSIC IS IMPORTANT AND EVERYTHING ELSE DOESN"T MATTER!!" misses the point on video games as a medium. And that shows that you don't care about Touhou at all; you just listen to the music on Youtube and call yourself a fan without touching the games. It's a video game franchise and you're crying that people are calling out for its dogshit writing, unbalanced difficulties or the questionable decisions like the whole yokai boogeyman going on. Talk to me again if you stop being a faggot.>>51127781Pretty much. Kasen's entire arc should have been the nail in the coffin for any fan who claims that it has "lore". The only real story he wrote was about his early days; they were episodic, but it did have cause and effect at some point, even if PCB changed everything; they were connected, and I see where these people claim that it has lore. It had, ZUN just gave up on telling a story because he knew that it would be a success regardless thanks to the fact that Touhou is a monster of a revenue in Japan. That and the fans are "filling the gaps" anyway. And said fans are claiming that it's "vague" on purpose to keep its derivative spirit, when in reality most of its information regarding its setting was already told. The whole "youkais are from human fear and it feeds as such or else they die" ironically ruins any imagination.
>>51127982What are those wheel-like protrusions on Yuuka’s chair? Armpit rests? Ear rests?
>>51128417Massage chair?
Good thread
>>51124678prove that you're not actually an inferior being
>>51127383the music can be enjoyed with no knowledge of the games and there's nothing wrong with that, I've shared it with people who haven't played them and they've enjoyed it.
>>51127982So you denounce the secondary boogeymen, but then immediately go on a rant about secondary boogeymen? Not sure what point you're trying to make here.
>>51128516What are you talking about, anon?
None of this changes the fact that any fictional narrative begins and ends with itself. Cowboy Bebop is Cowboy Bebop and Netflix Cowboy Bebop is Netflix Cowboy Bebop. Both are complete and utter make-believe
