If Germany had won what would their arsenal look like?
>>64175842fg42 mass issue
>>64175842mp40, but bigger
>>64175842Impossible to know. Might be they would retain 8x33, might be they would go for a more slender cartridge at some point afterwards. Might be they keep using tilting block rifles like STG44, might be they go for roller locked systems like they were already being developed during the war. Might be they adopt short stroke piston systems eventually.
>>64175897The STG 45 was the planned replacement already so they definitely would. The MG 42 would probably still be in service like it already is in the real world
>>64175842Japan would have Gundams, Germany and US would be stuck in an arms race to space.
A huge component of Goth Phase Germany's strategy was pitting their own staff against one another, in a bit of a Darwinian struggle. This led to some... Silliness. The STG-44, for example, was first produced as the MP-44, to keep the brass from rejecting the project outright. That was Little Dark Age Germany's legacy in weapons development; Fancy resources, world class designers, constant infighting, and an expensive Wunderwaffle for every occasion.>>64175842Considering their insistence on traditionalism, and internal mythology, Germany (maybe?) wouldn't have adopted H&K-style designs such as those shown. That adoption would also be difficult because of the G3's development path: A German improvement upon a Spanish iteration of a German prototype. Germany wins, the STG-45 stays under wraps, the CETME Model-58 is never built... You get the idea. It gets hairy, fast.Then, there's Germany's victory. This ain't that discussion, but to keep it a buck fifty: The moment America entered, Germany was screwed. Some would say that the moment Germany made an enemy of the USSR, they had already lost. Basically, depending on how they win in this scenario, and how they win, the whole game changes. It's a butterfly effect. Germany wins, America never enters the war, John Garand continues happily ice-skating in his basement, the M14 is never developed, its lackluster performance never generates the impetus for the adoption of the M16, so on, so forth. It devolves into Asimov's psychohistory; Most of the same developments (Polymer receivers, intermediate cartridges, equivalents to the fire team), none of the same players, with random variables changing the entire pattern at random.And then, there's the simple fact that Nightcore Germany was burning social capital, itching to go to war with the entire world at the same time. They were allergic to winning, no matter which cool tech they developed.Long story short, you get one major benefit: No rear charging handles.
stg45(m) in 7.92kurz, x57 and 9mg45 + maybe 7.92kurz sawg43 and fg42 converted to 7.92kurz because why notmp40, sniper 98k and g43 still aroundrifle grenades, rifle grenades everywhererpg-2-style panzerfausthi-power + walther p5 20 years earlier
Do my eyes deceive me, or is that an UMP with stamped receivers? What a fucking vibe!!>inb4 it’s “a UMP”No, it’s “an UMP”, because I pronounce it “uhmp” (the correct way)
>>64175842>antimatter rayguns>gauss rifles>disintegrator cannons>foo fighters armed with laser weaponsonly thing that would have let them win the war
>>64176000You don’t think they’d ditch 8mm Kurz for a true SCHV cartridge? The Russians ditched their Kurz-analog for 5.45. And it is the consensus of all the world’s militaries that an isometric scaling of the full power cartridge is the superior intermediate cartridge config.
Walther MPL replaces MP40CETME-like guns replace Kar98 MG42 is eternal
>>64175842They would probably have the Persuadatron from Syndicate, along with a cloning machine and a machine which turns captivew into crude oil, along with a magic ray which shuts down the atoms in American nuclear weapons.>>64176006They would absolutely replace 7.92x33mm with something better if they had the chance and means, be that just a slimmer bodied 7.92mm cartridge or something smaller caliber in 5mm to 7mm.7.92x33mm is an awful and clunky cartridge, but it made the necessary compromises to be able to be put into use, which makes it alright enough.
>>64175897>>64175920they were definitely going to replace 8mm kurz eventuallythe cartridge was basically a proof of concept, 556 or a similar slim cartridge manages to go farther and go faster, have better trajectories, and can be ligherRemember, 8mm kurz' contemporaries were shit like 30 carbine
>>64176002>is that an UMP with stamped receivers?Anon...
>>64177512Ah fuck. It’s not my eyes that deceive me, it’s my stupid fucking brain lol. Why didn’t MP5 immediately spring to mind?
>>64175968Japan would be a crater in the ocean because Germany would destroy them after Japan's eventual betrayal and weak ass power grab.
>>64177482.30 U.S Carbine doesn't even really compare to 7.92x33mm, the latter has way more effective range and better terminal ballistics.I never liked the notion of calling it an intermediate cartridge, because it doesn't really fit, it was never meant as a dedicated infantry rifle, it was meant to provide a more practical defensive weapon to non-grunt personnel than pistols and revolvers.
>>64175842The same like now. The StG45 evolved to the CETME/G3.
>>64175842It would look pretty much like what you just posted.
>>64177577Probably for the same reason you think it's called the ump and not the You Emm Pee(Fetal alcohol syndrome)
>>64178007Yeah, but 7.92x33mm proved itself so well in combat that they wouldn't have gone to CETME/G3 style full powered infantry rifles in 7.92x57mm. They would probably keep that as a machinegun cartridge, that's logical, but the next obvious step would be to make a replacement intermediate cartridge, and probably iterate on the Stg-45s to refine them and see which would work best after all.
>>64175880This. Even their shotguns would have fg42 vibes
>>64175842How the hell could anyone reasonably answer that?
>>64180193What, you can’t game out 80 years of an alternate reality in your head? You retarded or something?
>>64177993The primary difference between the two is the spitzer bullet, which really transforms the ballistics of the round. Otherwise both of them have trajectories of a souped up pistol cartridge.>>64178064>7.92x33mm proved itself so well in combat that they wouldn't have gone to CETME/G3 style full powered infantry rifles in 7.92x57mmThey literally did so post war despite having zero pressure to do so. You're simply delusional over the perceived impact and effectiveness of the 7.92 kurz.
>>64180267BUT the first CETME evaluation rifles had puny cartridges. It might well have been 8mm Kurz they stuck with for a long-ass time.
>>64180267>The primary difference between the two is the spitzer bulletThat helps, but you're not going to catch up to 7.92x33mm by loading a spitzer in .30 U.S Carbine, when you neck that cartridge down to a 40gr .22 caliber FMJ spitzer to create .22 Spitfire (aka 5.7mm Johnson), that DOES significantly improve its performance, but it's still 30% less powerful than 5.56x45mm NATO, owing to the lighter bullet and lighter powder charge..30 U.S Carbine is a small rifle cartridge made for defensive use at close ranges, and closer analogues in my opinion are the FN P90 and H&K MP7, which are not assault rifles. 7.92x33mm Kurz, 7.62x39mm, 5.56x45mm, and 5.45x39mm, these are all medium sized infantry rifle cartridges intended for full on infantry combat, intended to reach out as far as grunts realistically will fight.
>>64175997>Considering their insistence on traditionalism, and internal mythology, Germany (maybe?) wouldn't have adopted H&K-style designs such as those shownHitler was obsessed with the "every rifleman a sniper" philosophy, so maybe a G43 adoption followed by a full powered battle rifle as a compromise with the army after they realised that they need something for close ranges. Maybe you could see a coexistence between some Stg45 derived assault rifle and a battle rifle
>>64180267>They literally did so post war despite having zero pressure to do soWest Germany did not have the means to support the 7.92x33mm in the rebuild stage, and later on they would be drawn into 7.62x51mm NATO like everyone else.The early rebuild Bundeswehr was rocking Mausers because that's what was in wide supply and which WW2 veterans already knew how to handle.It was East Germany who had enough leftover that they could still use 7.92x33mm and Stg-44s after the war to some extent, but once they got on the AK train they would not look back. East Germany would give away Stg-44s as military aid, along with repackaged ammunition, which is a reason why a bunch ended up in Africa and the Middle East during the Cold War.>You're simply delusional over the perceived impact and effectiveness of the 7.92 kurz.I think you're deluded to deny it. It's an imperfect cartridge and rifle, but it's a type of cartridge which is extremely practical for grunts, and they made sure praise it every chance they had.Volksgrenadier divisions with Sturmgewehrs managed to hold their own against American divisions in spite of smaller numbers, in large part thanks to the sheer force multiplication of assault rifles, and it was just as effective on the Eastern Front.
>>64175842Germans loved the M1 Carbine, it was the most popular thing to take as a trophy. So obviously, if The Third Reich won, they would have developed along the lines of the M1 or M2 Carbine and eventually settle on something like an overcomplicated Mini 14 without a rock and lock mag.
>>64175842It probably would have developed over almost the same lines as what actually happened
>>64175997Goddamn you love verbosity, are you paid by the word?
>>64182566checked, go over to Ukraine and do so
>>64176630
>>64181367>It's an imperfect cartridge and rifle, but it's a type of cartridge which is extremely practical for grunts, and they made sure praise it every chance they had.it's not like they had anything but bolt actions and 9mm smgs to compare to. it's grossly overrated.
>>64181367>Volksgrenadier divisions with Sturmgewehrs managed to hold their own against American divisions in spite of smaller numbers, in large part thanks to the sheer force multiplication of assault rifles,complete bullshit and "assault rifles" are trash weapons that underage videogame retards and rusniggers obsess over. the only reason for any kind of German small arms advantage was the GPMG.
>>64181333>but you're not going to catch up to 7.92x33mm by loading a spitzer in .30 U.S Carbineyou'll get 90% of its ballistics just by doing that.
>>64181367>>64184696How does 7.92×33mm compare ballistically and penetration/energywise, to (probably its nearest-in-time competitor) 7.62×39?Any deep dive thorough studies on that>yes it'd be comparing an MP 44 to AK-47
>>64184711It's slightly worse but is functionally the same. it's got 150fps slower muzzle velocity with a similar bullet so it's going to have more drop at range but both cartridges underperform at any extended range so it's not much of a difference.
>>64182566Nein, untermensch.And it’s impossible to say. Such an event would have completely altered the course of small arms development as we know it. Best we can do is speculate a couple years afterwards.
>>64184732>more drop at rangeSure, would've anticipated that.My spitball guess ? would be that as 200 yards or less they'd be largely identical
>>64175842
>>64182566>punch a nazihow many Nazis have you punched in your life you fucking faggot? Leftist punch Nazis only when it is three against one... and when they can land a sucker punch. Otherwise they are much to cowardly to do so.
>>64185582He’s doing this (>>64175794)He wants to kill people to the sound of applause. That’s all.
>>64184700>GPMGWhich once they ran out of ammo or were killed the rest of the German squad was absolutely FUCKED. The Germans learned really fucking quick on the Eastern front that the close range firepower of the Heer was sorely lacking, something they never rectified.
>>64185743>nazi!>what REAL fucking nazis did Which is funny as fuck how modern leftists accuse conservatives of being nazis, because if they actually were nazis they'd have a knife or a bullet in their guts faster than they could blink. The Third Reich didn't fucking go to colleges or protests and debate leftists or counterprotest, they broke skulls or made people outright dissappear.
>>64185778If we really were living in a Nazi world, it would be dangerous to oppose the Nazis and find yourself opposite a mob of angry ones. This seems to be lost on the leftists. A huge, load-bearing reason why leftists are leftists is because of the hostility of the left. It is in fact more dangerous to find yourself opposite a mob of angry leftists than opposite a (non-existent) mob of angry right wingers. Young single girls are like this. It’s their mating instinct applied to group conflict - identify the most dangerous element and source of violence in your environment and submit to it. No doubt some (or most) leftist men are this way too.Anyway, if (when) the Nazis do get here, suddenly the “punch Nazis” crowd will shutup and either go into hiding or get with the new consensus.
>>64176000>fg42 convertedchecked, one of my dream firearms is a replicamod FG 42 in 6.5 Grendelexact duplicate in all aspects except for the chamber/bolt/barrel bore/magazines
>>64184696>it's not like they had anything but bolt actions and 9mm smgs to compare to. it's grossly overrated.That's like saying the maxim machine gun is grossly overrated because later machine guns were vastly improved and at the time the maxim could only be compared to stuff like the gatling and the agar.
>>641846967.92x33mm vastly outranged 9x19mm, 7.62x25mm, and .45 Auto, and allowed for carrying vastly more ammo than 7.92x57mm, .303 British, .30-06 Springfield, and 7.62x54mmR Nagant, with three to six times the magazine capacity, and generally half the recoil, and superior rate of fire.>>64184700Useless boomer noise.>>64184711It's slightly less powerful, and the fat ass of the cartridge makes for a somewhat awkwardly tall magazine. The stronger taper of 7.62x39mm inducing a heavier curve on its magazines helps a tad bit with height.7.92x33mm has closely similar ballistics to supersonic loads of .300BLK
>>64184707Demonstrate it.>>64184732They both do have a banana-shaped trajectory, yeah, since they're compromise cartridges born before better circumstances and better research was done.
>>64185867>the left is more violentThey are also absurdly lax on crime which is inherently cruel to victims.
>>6418470730 carbine has 2/3rds the muzzle energy of 8mm Kurz. There is no getting around that. You are being retarded.>>64184700>assault rifles are trash>yet every single military on the planet has adopted one as their general purpose infantry rifleIs this a retard containment thread?
>>64187166He's probably the same faggot who spazzed out when someone said the AK was a better rifle than the G3.
