I propose Gengish Khan.In a lifetime he founded the second largest empire and killed off almost 40million people without having access to gunpowder.
>>64190908Caesar and not even close.
>>64191139Caesar couldn't even conquer all of Gaul though.
>>64191254vile gaulish propaganda!
>>64190908It didn’t last long though
>>64191421>It didn’t lastNothing does.
>>64191254In his defense though, does anyone want to rule Gaul?
I like Napoleon because it seems hard to win a 3v1 multiple times but I'm not so good at history
>>64190908Napoleon. Napoleon. Granted, in terms of sheer size, he loses out to the others. But he does so in a much more complex, structured world, with powerful states that all possess the same weapons as him, and sometimes even better ones, and with his enemies able to effectively ally themselves against him. Despite everything, his tactical and strategic genius enabled him to achieve all he wanted.What is impressive is that his innovations were purely organizational and military, never technological. It was his pure intellect that enabled him to dominate part of Europe.
>>64191550>fails to plant a Bonaparte on the Spanish throne>Fails to keep an Italian puppet state despite Italy hating being an Austrian vassal>Fails to implement the Continental system>Fails to defeat Russia, loses the Grand Armee doing so>His plan basically required never ending conquest, just like RomeNapoleon was a battlefield genius but a dogshit conqueror. His empire fell apart within a decade while he was still alive, he never actually acheived decisive victory over his main rival, and his poor political decisions laid the groundwork for his own destruction.
>>64190908What about Sargon? He started as a cupbearer (aka fuckboy) of the king of Kish, even though he was not ethnically sumerian, he procedeed to fight the coalition of Lugalzageesi (over 50 kings), with a small army (defeated him in open battles seem, not an ambush or such), unified Sumeria and proceeded to basically invent the idea of empire itself, uniting basically all known world. He ruled for almost 50 years and even defeated a widespred rebellion in his late years. He was not only a great general but a reformer and great administrator. I put him up there with Liu Bang, Napoleon and Hongwu as the ones that created an empire starting from nothing (Temujin was the son of a tribale chieftain, Caesar was of an auistocratic and wealthy family).
>>64191550>purely organizational and military, never technologicalcanned food says fuck you
>>64190908the British Empire
>>64191586Army's really do travel on thier stomachs. >us army burgerkingconex.jpg
Last time I czeched, I did not have a standing army at my beck and call, nor am I a blue blood.
>>64190908Gengis Khan lasted barely a decade and his empire collapsed with him. at this point, the only sign that he ever conquered is a couple of near metal bands out of Mongolia.on the other hand, the extent and consistency of hellenic culture even today shows that it was Alexander. Similar time frame as Gengis Khan, but you can actually see the results of his activities. >>64191139Rome started as a republic and Caesar did not arrive on scene until Rome began to slow down.
>>64191628caesar conquered gaul and the conquest stuck for 500 years
>>64190908>Ismail I mentionedLet's goooo. Definitely not the greatest in history, however his accomplishments are pretty absurd.>Father leads a religious/militant sect>Dies in battle just before Ismail turns 1 year old>Ismail is in hiding basically his whole life>At 12 he came out of hiding and started raising an army>Literally just some 12 year old starts walking into Turkic nomad camps and starts recruiting, successfully>By 13 he leads an army of thousands to victory against the people who killed his father>starts conquering shit>within one year he is proclaimed king>within 10 years he has conquered all of Iran>successfully converted Iran to Shia Islam, permanently changing the course of history>also restored Iranian rule to Iran after centuries of Arabic, Turkic, and Mongol conquerors>Lost just one battle in his entire life, against the Ottomans>After securing occupied territories after the loss, never went to war again, became a depressed alcohol and drank himself to death
He may not have conquered the world but given his lot i'd say he gave it a good shot.
>>64191575Chingis was exiled into a barren wasteland and killed his own brother so he wouldnt starve to death retard. Sure he married the daughter of a powerful warlord later on and that is how he began his rise to power but he started as a poorfag nobody cared about
>>64192054>Successfully converted Iran to Shia Muslim>Drank himself to death (with alcohol)Huh?
>>64190908Technically, yes, but name one "Mongolian" thing you, or anyone else uses in the world today. See, literally nothing.
>>64192401Subtle facial features that made the TSA extremely nervous circa 2001.
Genghis khan for sure.>half a continent looks like inbred versions of him
>>64192391Islam's relationship with alcohol is a bit like I guess early Catholicism's relationship with "Don't have a wife/sex"They were aware of the hypocrisy, Babur gave up alcohol to try and be a better Muslim, but it's one of those>You shouldn't be doing this habibi it's bad>God's not going to throw you into hell for it but you're lubricating the path to hell plz stop>Habibi plz>plz.>>64191628> the only sign that he ever conqueredThey fucked up qanats that were +2000 years old in Central asia. While Central Asia was going to go to the dogs due to the changes of trade they really expedited the process. Hazaras as an ethnic group exist because of the Mongols. Ibn Taymiyyah is considered the patriarch and originator of jihadist Islam and he emerged in a reaction to the rule of the Ilkhanates. Theres lots of down-stream influences of Mongol rule same as there is down-stream influences of Hellenism. Just consider the Tartarization of Russia and all the subsequent developments as a result of that.
>>64192401>name one "Mongolian" thing you, or anyone else uses in the world today.Land under the blue sky.
>>64192445>They fucked up qanats that were +2000 years old in Central asia?
>>64192391Alcohol was not always entirely banned in Islam. Further, Shia islam is VERY different Sunni in what it permits, even more so at that time. For instance, in Iran it was quite common to draw images of Mohammad even. At this point in time, Shia islam was weird. The sect Ismail leaded believed in reincarnation, had very heavy Zoroastrian/Gnostic philosophical and theological influence, may have practiced free sex and communal property, and considered their sheikhs to be essentially demigods, and literal reincarnations of Ali. And they believed the earth was created by a cabal of shadow demons rather than Allah. So, yeah, alcohol was far from the weirdest thing going on.Later on they conformed to more traditional Islam.
>>64190908>Genghis Khan with full hair.Historylets. Hairstyles were fairly important to the people in this area of the world.It's how we tell apart the Turkic (multiple queues at the back together), Mongolic (see pic), Tungusic (completely shaved head with a single queue in the back), further western foreign ("normal" hair) people and Civilized/Sinitic people (hair in a top bun) in drawings from the area.
>>64192543Iran, and much of the middle east and central Asia had qanats, a type of aqueduct used to supply water for irrigation, fountains, plumbing, anything that uses running water. In fact the term 'paradise' literally refers to a walled garden the Iranians kept, fed by these qanats (Avestan, pairidaēza). Pic related is the Aral sea. As you can see, it is drying up. Almost entirely. This began after the fall of the Soviet Union, as more and more irrigation projects in Central Asia began to divert waters that ultimately end up in the Aral Sea. However, Persian writers following the Mongol conquests detail the return of the Aral Sea. It was dry in their time, because just as now, the water was diverted to their qanats. The mongols destroyed so much infrastructure in Iran and the surrounding area that the sea returned, and remained. It took until after the collapse of the Soviet Union for people to rebuild to a similar level of water demand as Iran had in the 1200s.
>>64192569O thanks. i thought for a moment you meant khanates and i was confused since 2000 year old khanates.
>>64192569>This began after the fall of the Soviet UnionNo. The Aral Sea is in the state it's in because the Soviets diverted the rivers feeding it to grow cotton for export while being fully aware of the consequences to the Aral Sea itself. They knew goddamn well that they were killing it and they simply didn't care.
>>64192624shut up turknigger>nooo it was da ebil soviets fault not us
>>64192624This. Fucking it up was a Russian Imperial project continued by the Soviets and finally the successor states.
>>64192569https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12416910-800-soviet-cotton-threatens-a-regions-sea-and-its-children/>18 November 1989 > DURING THE past few weeks, the press of the Uzbek SSR has displayed a curious dichotomy. Under the headline ‘Harvest News,’ the front page of almost every newspaper contains statistics, claims of people beating production targets and human interest stories from the cotton harvest. On the inside pages are appeals and exhortations to save the Aral Sea.>The two themes are incompatible. The Aral Sea is in danger of drying out precisely because its feeder-rivers, the Amu-Darya and Syr-Darya are being depleted to irrigate the cotton belt of the Soviet south...
>>64192640Anon, stop being a nigger.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0959378093900056Look at the date of the publication of this article.
I think Cromwell was underrated. His greatest feats were in civil wars and he might have gotten a little carried away in Ireland but he seemed like someone who fell into it and wasn't trying to rule the world - just establish a puritan Commonwealth under God that encompassed the British Isles.>b-but was he even a conquerorAll conquerors make extensive use of cavalry innovations to win decisive battles.>>64190908You're missing that he also had an abysmal start to life. Gengish Khan did well to even survive to adulthood.>>64191550I think too much is put on Napoleon's conquests, France was the preeminent military power of Europe that had unlocked mass mobilisation. He even thought in his own life that his greatest achievement and what he would be remembered for was the Napoleonic Code.
>>64192569https://web.archive.org/web/20250702133111/https://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/09/world/grand-soviet-scheme-for-sharing-water-in-central-asia-is-foundering.html>...A Regional Trade-Off>That is not how things were supposed to work. Instead, the Kremlin conceived an elegant trade-off, linking the mountains rich in wild rivers and glaciers with the arid plains, rich in gas, coal and oil.>And so, in the winter, the plains would send fuel to the mountains; in return, the mountains would hoard river water, then send it downstream for crops in the spring and summer.>The desert blossomed -- and the Aral Sea became starved for water. A fishing industry that had employed 40,000 workers and supplied one-sixth of the Soviet catch also evaporated. So did a trapping industry that had netted a half million muskrat pelts a year from the lush Syr and Amu deltas.>Even so, central planners judged that the trade-off was a success, with its bounty from 10 million new acres of crops.>"It was part of the five-year plans, approved by the council of ministers and the Politburo," said Aleksandr Asarin, an expert at the Russian State Hydroproject Institute who angered his bosses by predicting, in 1964, that the sea was headed for catastrophe. "Nobody on a lower level would dare to say a word contradicting those plans," he said, "even if it was the fate of the Aral Sea."
>>64192682>>64192665>>64192654>somehow everything is fine and the sea is still there until the collapse of the Soviet Union>afterwards it immediately begins receding rapidly>almost as if the Soviets were managing the water used and the now independent central asian states fucked it all up
>>64192693>somehow everything is fine and the sea is still there until the collapse of the Soviet UnionThanks for confirming that you neither read nor understood what was posted.
>>64192401There's this Mongolian basket weaving forum I go on occasionally.
>>64190908Caesar and all the white people from the Italian peninsula associated with the Roman empire. Sure Genghis got the most land area, but the Latins conquered nearly as much and were able to hold it and govern it for more than 1 dude's lifetime. As soon as Genghis died the golden horde started falling apart.
>>64192401Mongolian beef bowls
>>64192401>but name one "Mongolian" thing you, or anyone else uses in the world today
>>64192566I thought zoomers had it rough losing their hairlines so young what the hell is even going on here lol
>>64192569>This began after the fall of the Soviet UnionMy brown friend, it began during Soviet Union times specifically because of the retarded way the soviets did the irrigation projects with amu darya and syr darya rivers, making gigantic channels to siphon off water from (losing more 70% of water because the channels were lined kek) to grow more cotton that region.
>>64192569>>64192640>>64192693Why does the Sea look more full in 1977 than in 1989 then?
>>64191254>FilenameBut Anon there are three characters in that picture
>>64192569>communism is so evil that it killed one of earth's most beautiful treasuresthanks leftoids
>>64190908Probably, just for square millage and % of world population. I'm not sure anyone else comes even close.
>>64190908Alex no cap. he is my brofu
>>64191550>hemorrages constant resources in Spain because his armies keep getting fucked by Spanish troops , militias and guerrilla forces>gets fucked in Russia by a total inability to adapt his methods or plan properly in the face of obstinate enemies who seek to remove any advantage>him and his commanders and their naval incompetence are the main reason for the loss at Trafalgar , even though Spain had managed to defeat the English recently>is unable to fight in terrain or against troops whose fighting method do not already benefit his ownHe was a one trick pony , honestly .He did good but failed most of the time he was faced with anything but a land battle he was already comfortable with .
>>64192886Nigga , Latins are not White (Thank the Lord)
>>64190908>all these retarded niggers keep complaining about an empire aftermathGenghis Khan>but muh emp-Don't care, faggots. This man conquered so much despite living in the most shitty of situations.
>>64191550>in terms of sheer size, he loses out to the othershehehe
>>64192423He sure conquered the gene pool.
>>64193164Everyone knows Obelix is too polite to cuck Caeser.
>>64194266They used to be.
Jesus Christ
>>64190908It dependsI would say Alexander for leaving a humongous legacy.The man was the first to rule on three different continents and left an impression on countless civilizations for the next millennium.I mean name me any other man that is remembered by Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Persians, Indians, and Arabs?
>>64192401Mongolians still perform extremely well in grappling sports like wrestling, judo, sumo, etc. Moves from their folk wrestling have proliferated into those sports.
>>64190908>Alexander the Great>two random brown guys>Genghis KhanIt's always so obvious when thirdies make those because they'll put in their local village chief on the same level as actually important people and act like everyone is supposed to know who the fuck they are.
>>64193164The dog cucked Cleopatra
>>64190908I'm semi-informed, semi-ignorant and this is my retard take>Alexander 3/5>Inherited a lot of military innovation and political power from his dad; also economically dependent on Greece to fuel his military conquests to dunk on doctrinally retarded nations>was very tactically good and clearly one of the greatest ADHD improvisers>Genghis 4/5>Didn't actually do a third of what people think; didn't conquer China, didn't conquer middle east, didn't conquer Russia, didn't really lead his own armies, and all he 'didn't do' relied on pre-existing Mongol military phenomenon to achieve>Despite his father's name he worked his way up from the bottom; he did conquer the Mongols; most importantly he DID setup a dynasty that went on to do all the things he didn't did (which is the rarest thing of all)>Napoleon 3/5>His military victories were dependent on being the leader of France, which was greatest land power even before he came along, and he ultimately lost militarily in a way the other military geniuses didn't whilst still dynastically losing the same way (except Genghis)>Worked his way up from the bottom, militarily innovative in a way other leaders only claim to be, real legacy of reforming Europe's laws, France wasn't as OP as some other nations of military geniuses >Julius Caesar 5/5>Not really a dynastic legacy, didn't effectively institute his social reforms in Rome; most importantly his conquests weren't world- or continent-spanning like others; got fukken killed>He didn't spend Rome's wealth to conquer Gaul: instead he actually funded his own gigantic army as the conquest of Gaul continued, thereby making him a perpetual war machineIf you had 2 Alexanders for your country, you'd have an empire twice as big that collapses twice as fast. If you had 2 Napoleons for your country you'd go bankrupt twice as quick. If you had 2 Julius Caesars for your country you would have an empire twice as big and twice as rich
Most of the area that Cengis took was already conquered before by the turks. After that the Turks, Tatars and turkified Mongols did it again and then later a lot of it has been conquered by the Russians who actually held it. I don't mean to spit on their military achievements and there are some nice places there probably but the area between the Caspian see and China perhaps isn't that interesting for many to hold. The Levant and the Caucasus is still mostly middle eastern genetically from the fathers side with some indo european. So why the awe for Cengis? Just to spite the Russians or the turks? Also why not even a honorable mention of Adolf Hitler? Wasn't he at least as impressive as Napoleon? Is /k/eddit only allowed to simp for a masonic goy or what? >>64199053This. The greatest general was clearly Khalid ibn Waleed and the title of best conqueror might go to Umar ibn Khattab. Destroying nations and spreading anarchy is much easier than actually conquering, the rabid dogs who tried to establish "isis" for example aren't conquerors.>>64192445Ibn Taymiyya is known for being a man of insight and vast knowledge. A staunch Sunni who refuted innovated beliefs and sects that spread and rose to power in his time. His jihad against the ilkhanids was a continuation of his jihad with the pen, he continued his jihad untill he died in prison. The fact that "jihadists" aka kharijites claim him among others is due to their need to seem like the authority in the world as the true Muslims. Which they obviously aren't, ibn Taymiyya and the rest of the sunni scholars like ibn AbdulWahaab and Imam Ahmad would have fought al qaeda and their offshoots for their religious innovation of khurooj. You seem well read but confused, look for reliable people with knowledge and learn from them, books are just tools.
>>64190908>AlexanderPretty good, huge legacy, some brilliant victories but he failed to actually secure his Empire (then again him dying so young is something nobody expected), however a large amount of his success depended on the army his father built from nothing, his generals and a stupid amount of luck>IsmailGuy who is irrelevant outside of Iran and got his ass handed to him whenever he fought anybody but inept mountain warlords >Mehmed Wohoo such an accomplishment he finished off the basically dead Byzantines while outnumbering them 13:1 and still took way longer than he should've Who tf even made this graph
>>64191254who said that you can't make compelling media with an invulnerable impossibly strong protagonist ?
>>64190908Genetic evidence shows that there were at lesat 6 bronze age events very similar to the Mongol invasion of China, ie. mass slaughter of the settled men and mass rapes by a few conquering horse warriors.Djingis is the only one in historic time and was likely the most impactful one due to higher population numbers.
>>64190908Everyone ITT is wrong.Pic related. Umar beat 2 of the times' superpowers, the ERR and Persia to take over lands with many times the population of the original Arab state.
>>64199676Anon both Powers had spent the last 30 years fighting the last uber total war ever between them and only one of them disintegrated. Very impressive but context is important
>>64192401Russia, used as laughingstock
>>64191254It was only one village!
>>64191430Clovis carved out an empire and died at age 45. The remnants and effects of his conquests and actions ring out centuries later.>Frankish realm would evolve into the Kingdom of France and eventually modern republic as well as the Holy Roman Empire whose successor state, the German confederation led to modern Germany>His choice to convert to Catholicism likely saved the religion in the West when Italy, Hispania, and North Africa were all ruled by Arian kings
>>64198789>The man was the first to rule on three different continentsDarius I ruled thrace, Egypt, and of course vast swathes of Asia.
>>64190908Tamerlane. He didn't conquer the most but Genghis Khan mostly fought weak, declining empires or ones that were poorly led. Timur faced empires on the upswing or peak of their power.>Capture Persia>Defeat Mongol successor states>Defeat Delhi Sultanate who stopped Mongols with no major defeats against them>Defeat Mamluk Sultanate who also had experience fighting and defeating Mongols>Defeat Bayezid a commander who was well known for smashing a European crusade sent to stop the expansion of the Ottoman Empire and cqpture him and his wifeHe left no lasting legacy, his empire almost immediately imploded, and the only reason anyone remembers him is because he was an edgelord surpassing Genghis Khan and matching Ashurbanipal.Another option>Cyrus the GreatThe first great conqueror who created an Empire stretching from India to Anatolia. Before him the largest "empire" pretty much only included modern Iraq, Syria, Israel, and Lebanon and small parts of Eastern Turkey. He defeated peoples of various different methods of warfare including fully Nomadic Iranians, the settled Median Iranians, Babylon, and the Greeks of Anatolia.Notably it's hard to include European rulers because beyond Europe being small most European (and indeed most long-lived empires like the Ottoman and Mughal empires) empires were built on the backs of successive conquests. Caesar comquered Gaul, that's about it, modern France and change. He was a military genius with few equals but gained a fairly small amount of territory.
>>64199447if Adolf Hitler even came close to Napoleon, it was as a pale imitation. a shadow at best. Hitler was never a military genius. his decision to fight on two fronts, one of them being a peaceful nation with whom the country had a non-aggression pact (and also the same nation that defeated Napoleon). he could have easily focused upon western Europe alone attacked Russia after. but he did not.If one were to compare anyone in the Nazi's to Napoleon, I would suggest Erwin Rommel. Hitler was no military genius. Rommel on the other hand created or at least heavily influenced tank warfare. hell, even today the Americans use the concept of the blitzkrieg as a starting point for taking territory.
>>64192401offering up maresmilk to tengri
>>64191550>>64191565What's a good Napoleon documentary or TV show?
Pepin of HerstalJan Van RiebeeckAlexander the GreatLivia, the wife of Augustus, not CaesarRooseveltGhandiHuangdiMehmed IIKhalid ibn al-WalidGhenghis, Rommel, Caesar, Napoleon's generals (not Napoleon per se) were brilliant strategists but they failed to consolidate. True conquerors consolidate - sometimes without waging war. Van Riebeeck's genious idea to establish a colony in South Africa is a prime ( and devastating) example.
>>64192670You’re going to get a lot of angry papist shitposts but I think you hit on something admirable, Cromwell really didn’t want to be “the guy in charge” but Parliament kept fucking up and he reluctantly took responsibility for cleaning up the mess.
>>64200446are we pretending now that Russia was going to honor their NAP?
>>64190908>Zero legacy apart from prolific rape spawn and the Russian stateAlexander.>>64191139Wept he was not Akexander and was diddled by laistes pyrates.>>64191550Close second for Law and nearly preventing colonial dick-measuring internecine collapse into financialist oligarchy and international socialism (and/or becoming Burgerdhimmis as a consequence).
>>64192401Chopsticks ya poofter. Also the mailman.
>>64193105Same as normans- they wore helmets a lot.
>>64198963Why are they kissing?
>>64199447Khraijites were 100% in the right, and Ali was a nigger.
