im a tank tard, my brain has been working overtime on the issue of tanks in the modern era, APV has become the norm, but they are just big mediums that offers up a heavy cannon to carry troops.. but in the age of drones, have all become rolling coffins on tracks. my solution to "tanks" is to make them lighter, armor is counter productive these days, what you RLY need is something to stop shrapnel, so instead of THICK heavy armor, you go the garlic route, many layers of spaced armor.it could be done cheap, say like in pic rel.stamped kevlar plates incapsulated in plastic with a fill nipple for fluids, that or simply have the plastic tanks filled with ceramic balls to dampen shrapnel impact.. this allows for different weight loads depending on mission.so it could be light to carry and fast to deploy.now, the armor layout can literally be anything so long as its spaced.. the important evolution as i see it:>make tanks more TD like (360 turret rotation is not needed) >return heavily sloped armor>retry what they wanted the M551 to do (but different) >have commander and radio op control two different drones, suicide drones for radio op, spotter drone// target tag for commander.idea is that the gunner and driver sits up front, the big bore mortar like cannon shoots in an arch (more like arty) it mainly fires HE, or HE derivatives, it also carries shotgun shells to pepper a general direction. (good for drone swarms)the commander and radio op sits in the rear of tanks, where a secondary compartment is found, this transports troops as well. finally and most importantly, on top of the flat roofed machine, you find a pair of 4 gauge shotgun turrets that RLY doesn't like it when things fly, so they thin out bird population as a biproduct of shielding against drones.. that is also why spaced armor is important, the drones will not hit directly, but explode near enough for it to be an issue if not for it..
>>64191038pic semi related.. doesn't paint the best pic but shows it well enough for understanding.
>>64191044where engine ?
>>64191038>I'm going to remove the ability to direct fire for literally no reason
>>64191038I predict that within 10 years, tanks will be twice as powerful, ten thousand times larger, and so expensive that only the 5 richest kings of Europe will own them
>>64191526pedals in the mobik compartment
>>64191562"for no reason", well when you have ppl hiding in ditches, there is a reason.. >>64191587yeah no, they will be cheaper.. and if i didn't make it clear- we have fully walked away from armor now, even the american army wants ppl to drive around in golf cars instead of armored cars. >>64191526hybrid electric, most of batteries in V shaped lower hull, if battery "rud" then blowout between garlic layers is a solution.main engine placed midways on machine, so behind and under turret line.either way, i did not intend for this to look like a giant machine, might be long compared to height, but not large.. the important part:>start using sloped spaced armor >start mounting shotgun turrets that takes offense to things that fly. >start having shotgun shells on tanksthis would not rly be a tanks or tanks destroyer, more of an specialized anti-personnel, personnel carrier that works to create a bubble of protective fire around itself.when i stated "tanks" i also started off complaining about Apv's..
>>64191038>im a tank tardyou are only a tardyou basically made a stuh/stug exept worse
>>64191748Shut the fuck up crab, and get back in your bucket.>>64191038Based thread. Thoughts on possible inspiration from existing armored vehicles? I like the Strv-103 and the montrosity that is the T-28. I think trying to stop arty or other tank rounds is now a fool’s errand, and better traded off for more mobility and consistant all-around armor, so I like your thesis anon. Please expound more, fools like our dipshit above can pound sand.
>>64191044Thoughts on skirt armor that can tank or deflect FPVs aimed at the treads but be flexible enough to not inhibit mobility?
What kind of modern Schürzen (beyond Brad-tier active protection) is the way to go? I’m not too keen on rubber like the Ivans who bodge together those barbaric Tsar-Mangal montrosities, but despite its tendency to burn, could some sort of rubber composite with flame retardant coating be a better improvement?
I’m going to continue shameless samefagging and dumping photos.Speaking of Tsar-Mangal, what is the least shitty part of the whole stupid shed on tank design? I can’t find a picture easily, but there was one a few months ago that had some sort of ‘hair’ on top made of welded rebar on top. It looked very professional compared to the usual vodka-fueled ork slop we see from Russian military frontline workshops, like a barbaric war wagon.
>>64191587>>64191726That one went right over your little head, huh?
What can be derived, if anything from the design of tanks that were hopelessly obsolete in their meta, but had novel features like multiple turrets? I like the idea from earlier in the thread of small auxiliary shotgun or small caliber cannon (shooting prox fused AA) turrets to act as point defense and complement the main gun. On APC configurations I see such turrets as also being of great defensive utility, while omitting the primary turret and main gun.
>>64191872Nothing of real value to add, so you make stupid little snarky comments so your ego can feel safe in the presence of your betters. Sad!Moving on from the kibitzing NPCs back to APCs, I want to bring up the Namer. To me, it looks the direction APCs will go as they branch off further from being similar to purpose-built IFVs.
Would modern fast cruiser AA tanks similar in overall idea to picrel (but with armor mostly placed below in an anti-mine V hull) be potentially useful as anti-drone? Or would pickup Land Cruisers with AA guns in the bed be better despite their vulnerability to small arms and mines?Picrel is an AA Crusader variant, but I’m imagining some hybrid of Flakpanzer Gepard and small MBT that is optimized to fire while moving instead of stationary.
Speaking of tanks where the main gun is in the body, how about something akin to a modern Char B1, but with the top turret housing anti-drone point defense, and a main gun in the hull that can provide direct fire to doctrinally act as a tank, or indirect drone-corrected fire to doctrinally act as an SPG?
>>64191038What's the feasibility of drone and artillery shell spotting with technology we have?I know next to nothing. Is there not extremely hidef cameras or sensors thst can detect the signatures of these things. Then deploy aps or something at the last second? Or have an aa vehicle follow these tanks or near by?I know that might be expensive now but what about the future?
>>64191038Nah, that's too radical for me anon. Just slap a 25 or 30mm airburst capable autocannon in a RWS on top, drop an autoloader inside and retask the loader as a drone warfare officer (flying the tank's own spotter drone and manning the controls for the AA cannon).
>>64192064Ukies use Germ Leo1s like picrel as SPGs because while their armor is paper thin and they have low survivability equivalent to Soviet tanks, they have an excellent primary gun and optics package.I know a few years ago, Russians were using T-55 in the same way.Now the golden question is, how good are they acting as SPGs and doing indirect fire missions, because while they are constrained to that role, I have no idea how well they actually function or if they’re a doctrinal dead end and bad at being SPGs, but worse at everything else.
>>64191038>something to stop shrapnelThe cheap and effective solution is plain steel armor. To be reliably (though not perfectly) protected against shrapnel from modern dumb but otherwise accurate 155mm artillery you need HMG proofed tier of armor. STANAG4569 (not NIJ) level 4. Levels 5-6 are nice but optional.This is slightly less than 2" of homogeneous steel.
>>64192087So you’re still going to embrace an armor distribution geared toward Cold War, hull-down, muh enfilade, late 20th century warfare? Wake up and smell the benzin, tanks are no longer the primary threat to tanks, and must redistribute armor to the top, rear, and underside to adapt to the fact that warfare has a new meta that is not determined by how thick your frontal glacis is.
>>64192064>https://www.drsrada.com/radarsHigh rez radars can track drones and shells without issue in a 20km radius bubble. They're not even expensive any more. The issue is it's a fragile piece of electronics the size of a desk - why put it on top of a tank?
>>64192117I accidentally a word, wrote enfilade where I meant defilade.
>>64191038This is retarded >no turret neededUh, yeah it's neededThere have been clear trends emerging for future tank design>large calibre gun>roof mounted programmable ammo autocannon>aps>specialised anti drone armour >unmanned turrets >drone integration
>>64192064Or, hear me out. You sniff out the drone operator beforehand and shove a JDAM up his ass before you send in the tanks
>>64192149What happens when the drone isn’t a small quadcopter FPV flown by danger-close dudes in a nearby bunker, but part of a constellation of mesh netted high-altitude loitering observer UCAVs operating behind the grey zone. What now? And don’t just larp like it’s Desert Storm and you have muh air supremacy as a proverbial Deus Ex Machina.
microwave emitter + integrated mortar + VLS + surveillance boom + fiber optic drone spools(use the minefield marking tech but use it to run fiber optic spools behind the vehicle for comms)
>>64192117>Wake up and smell the benzin, tanks are no longer the primary threat to tanks, and must redistribute armor to the top, rear, and underside to adapt to the fact that warfare has a new meta that is not determined by how thick your frontal glacis is.Yeah, that I don't disagree with. Something I am unsure of is the turrent. A turreted main gun is still necessary, the question is whether you make it unmanned and smaller to reduce weight and silhouette or say, fuck it, make the turret larger to enable a high-elevation, nlos shots (blurring the line between tanks and spgs).
pic rel OP?
>>64191726>for no reason", well when you have ppl hiding in ditches, there is a reasonOr you could invest in airburst munitions and have the capability to do both
>>64191726>>64191038what the fuck is an "APV"
>>64192143>360 turret rotation is not needed, a field of fire of about 270 should do.. if you absolutely need a 360 turret, then you've already been dumb enough to get urself placed in a trap, at that point its just darwinism.>>64192064 wouldn't rly be the high tech kind, cameras and AI software is enough, given the tools you can literally have this turret made within a week (without any issues) heck you can steal the code for this from youtubers if you RLY wanna do it fast.. radar systems would be to expensive, heavy and most of all- totally overkill. as for main gun guidance, ukraine already uses this tech on some of their arty pieces.. the second a drone tags, the position gets lit up.>>64192105 yes, thats why outer layer always is steel, then there after i think the stuff we have started to use in body armor is perfect, non newtonian fluid, ceramic orbs or tiles, kevlar and alu as backing plate// interior walls. the choice of not having a fully rotatable turret is purely to NOT make it top heavy, NOT make it to tall, all while providing proper space to carry more than just its crew.. radio operator isn't actually needed either, but it would be good to have a spare member just in case.. (main idea is to do what the sheridan tried to do, but make it more spacious inside while providing more armor for its use case, (also have it create a passive bubble of fire that wards off drones)
>>64192170>high altitude UCAVThen it's not different from any other aircraft that can get shot down by conventional means >you have air supremacy Why would you go to a war if you don't have air supremacy?>>64192259So your genius theory as to why you should gimp your situational awareness is "just be lucky lol"Retard
>>64192259wrote that worse than i normally do, sorry lads.. just woke up from my migraine nap.
>>64192259>radio operator is not deededLmao
>>64192274you do know that if there is something behind you, past the 270 field of fire.. you can always, i don't know.. turn the tracks? its clearly not a machine made for city combat.. if a large scale war happens, there will be less buildings to hide in- and in dense population centers, YOU DO NOT TAKE A TANKS..this will prob offend many americans seeing as their military loves sending in tanks to get shreaded from above by some long bearded grandpa with a 50 year old rocket launcher.
>>64191038Soldiers in the Ukraine war have been desperately trying to improvise any type of antidrone armor they could for years, and I never saw anybody roll out with AB foam and corn starch slurry sandwiched together with tupperware and expansion screws borrowed from their aunt. What makes you think this stuff you drew in MS paint works better than an equivalent weight of steel, in whatever many layers and with whatever spacing?Trying to design the land battleship that will survive 5 kamikaze drones hitting the exact spot they want with a shaped charge while firing a shotgun cannon into the sky is planning for defeat. Put a turret on the roof that can handle some drones, for sure, but you simply never put a tank somewhere where you're expecting the weather to be 'drone swarms' and expect the tank to deal with that by itself, you might as well try to armor against a nuclear strike. Incidentally, what's the most drones you've actually seen at once in IRL combat footage? It's nontrivial to get dozens drones to the front and launch them all at once against one target. There are like 2 countries on the planet getting to ready to fill cargo planes will pallets of drones and when ww3 drops they will only have so many strikes ready to go. If they want to expend all that effort on 1 tank...then great, you lose the tank.
>>64191908>seething because he didn't get the jokeI pity you
>>64192317well.. they they haven't tried the shotgun turrets.. and you can't argue that they'd be hard to make, the "ai" tracking software is already open source..the armor mentioned is just upscaled body armor sandwiched between a steel and alu plate.. it works, and would work when NOT taking i direct hit from the drones, the armor is just there to protect against drones when they ultimately fall short.. the turrets has not been tried, but they WILL work.. you just got to use something like 4 gauge for maximum critical hit chance.
>>64192294>just turn and expose your rear armour bro
>>64192679..if you have to turn, you'll effectively just be sides craping at a 45* angle seeing as IF you had to turn, they'll already be behind you XD im here plotting of the effects a CHEAP indirect fire apv would have, and though some might not agree with the drawbacks OR what proven light weight armor to use, at least i'm NOT as retarded as you are.
>>64192991kek,>sides craping.my migraine is killing me but this typo made my day.
>>64191587Could it be used for dating?
>>64193226i mean.. if you plan to speed date a man, sure.. im sure he'll fall flat and crush hard.
>>64193338lmfao good one anon
>>64192294>you do know that if there is something behind you, past the 270 field of fire.. you can always, i don't know.. turn the tracks?Sounds like a good way to get outflanked and torn to shreds by a bradley with lmao25mm tearing through your lightweight 'arti-only' armor
