why germans believed in the wunderwaffe concept? one would think they were smart enough to commit the ever increasingly limited resources to stuff that would actually make them win the war
>>64210574>why germans believed in the wunderwaffe concept?
>>64210594so its an aryan thing, is that what u trynna say?
>>64210574Mostly because Germany didn't have the population to face England, France, and Russia simultaneously so they had to believe in making 1 german soldier worth 5 regular soldiers.
>>64210574Because they did come close to such a thing, with the nerve agents.Nazis didn’t have the guts to employ it
>>64210633They were warned in no uncertain terms that they'd get anthraxed in return.
>>64210574halo effect, people overstimate the effect of something they believe is grandiose and catches attention instead of many boring small procedural changes that add up to make a huge differencealso 20/20 hindsight, if the atomic bomb wouldn't have worked you would be crying about why didn't they use resources to save lives in the large scale ground assualt on Japan
If hitler had put more money in this and they had gotten This thing flying before the end of the war things would have been much different.
>>64210640No, the threat was mostly about chemical warfare.And then, nazis we’re already hoarding livestocks and foods from across europe, so most of europe will be fully depopulated before Germans started starving en masse.And, given the long period before anthrax spore cakes to fully take effects, compare to near instantaneous destruction of nerve agents, germs would have found out something’s off.
>>64210669Yes, a few months of production on a plane would have halted the millions of Russian ground troops
>>64210644>if the atomic bomb wouldn't have worked you would be crying about why didn't they use resources to save lives in the large scale ground assualt on Japansir, thats a farce
>>64210685>They were warned in no uncertain terms that they'd get anthraxed in return.>And then, nazis we’re already hoarding livestocks and foods from across europe,do you know what anthrax does?it mostly kills livestock.anthrax, as a biological weapon, was never primarily intended for use against humans. It is a way to deprive your enemy of sheep, cows, and horses.sheep = woolcows = leather, milk, and meathorses = logisticscows and horses = heavy ploughs, aka all your cereal grains.(this was an era when tractors had only existed for like, forty years)
>>64210793That what i said ???And it would have been more than likely that germans will start noticing something's off with their livestocks. Countermeasure to mitigate would be easier than say, equipping 40 mils brits with enough nerve agent proof gas masks (Yes, i know brits did mass produce civilian gas mask before 1939, but those are not effective against nerve agents)That's not even mentioning that you would need PPE to be safe, since high concentration of nerve gases (about 200 times higher than what it take to kill through respiratory)And less than 100 mg per cubic metre is enough to kill an adult male through inhalation
The reality was that the early 20th century was the age of Wunderwaffe. Machine guns, planes, chemical weapons, tanks, submarines, semiautomatic and automatic rifles, paratroopers, missiles, jets, and atomic weapons may seem 'mundane' now, but they were wunderwaffe as much as super heavy battleships or superheavy tanks.Patton for example went from making his own cavalry sword to pioneering tank warfare. We should appreciate that it was an era of experimentation and rapid technological change, and nobody knew what worked and what didn't.
>>64210741NTA but it's a good point though and something I never considered. The Atomic Bomb basically was a wunderwaffe, just it actually worked.
>>64210574Same reason the Brits believed in Blitzkrieg and Rommel's genius - it was cope to divert attention from their failures.
>>64210633>nazis use nerve agents to fuck up a few allied untis on the frontlines>entire german cities are drowned in mustard gas by the RAF in return
>>64210869>Countermeasure to mitigate would be easier1. No. 2. Especially not for the already overtaxed german economy when compared to those of the allies.3. THis also results in the germans having to equip tens of millions of their civilians with gas masks because the RAF starts dropping thousnads of tons of phosgene and mustard gas into german cities.
>>64210574>not enough steel>not enough fuel>not enough menThey could have dragged it out some more making more sensible gear, but the end was in sight. Doing some meth and betting the house on some hail marry wunderwaffe probably seemed like the only way out.
>>64210633It was more that Hitler wasn't a fan of chemical weapons, having fought in WW1 and been through gas attacks. Another reason why the Soviets picking "gas chambers" for their blood libel was really dumb.The idea that they were "afraid of retaliation" makes no sense given that the British were already levelling civilian population centres through conventional ordinance and Henry Morgenthau was talking about the need to wipe out the Germans as a people.
>>64210574Wunderwaffen were unironically the only logical choice by midwar considering that Germany was losing access/stockpiles of strategic resources and their industry didn't have the capacity to rebuild even early war tanks or planes in sufficient numbers for Germanys war aims. Sure they "could" have built more modern and numerous medium tanks or single engine aircraft, but they didn't have the oil or aluminum to field them in sufficient numbers to keep up with the Russkies
>>64210574Anticipation of exotic physics power plants to take Porsche electric engines to the next level. And things that could negate direct fire artillery/AT at the scale of Kursk defenses while ignoring tank trap ditches (and mines) with impunity.
>>64210574>why germans believed in the wunderwaffe concept?It was literally only Hitler and his cabinet promoting these. Everyone thought it wrs stupid and actively tried not to waste money on them.
>>64210574It was pure cope.>our superior Aryan Science will create a weapon that will force the Judengolems to surrender!>never mind that our military is supplied by horses pulling wagons in Anno Domini 1945 and we can't produce enough fuel or ammunition for said weapons but we'll win because we're superior! Reminder that the war could have ended in 1943 if the US/UK would have negotiated.
>>64211677>mustard gas>literally the least effective chemical agentWith what fucking bombers? The British could only do limited night raids, the only thing they'd do is ensure that bomber crews wouldn't be taken prisoner anymore.
>>64211728>Another reason why the Soviets picking "gas chambers" for their blood libel was really dumb.holocaust denial retard or talking about something else?
>>64216067Meanwhile the US creates a portable sun. In two flavors.
>>64211728Very different story when gas will be used on you in return than being able to use it with impunity.
>>64210607Well that was the case, Germany was winning 1v10 battles against the Soviets and even during the siege of Berlin the ratio was positive for the German army, what does that have to do with the Wunderwaffen?
>>64216091Zyklon B was a pesticide that has to be concentrated to stupid levels to be fatal to humans. Yet the had chlorine gas and Sarin. Why didnt they use that? Maybe because the gas chamber stories are dumb. They just used famine and bullets and worked people to death. Way too much of the Holocaust is romanticized and embellished by Jews trying to look interesting.
>>64210574>one would think they were smart enough to commit the ever increasingly limited resources to stuff that would actually make them win the warThat's the problem. The allies had a shit ton of resources and the Germans had an increasingly limited amount of resources. Once America entered the war and the Soviet Union failed to collapse decisively like France did, there wasn't really a mathematical route to win the ensuing war of attrition. You could try building sensible shit, but the allies will just build vastly more sensible shit that was (more or less) qualitatively equivalent. So you either bet the farm on wunderwaffe turning things around, or accept that defeat is inevitable and surrender.Probably a stupid bet for Germany on the whole, but not a terrible cynical bet to make if you're the big name Nazi leaders. They kind of put themselves in an awkward position of committing a bit too many perfidious sneak attacks and happy happy fun time atrocities. The allies were gonna want to execute a lot of the very very top ranking leaders on principle. Hence them approving the construction of all the HabensWerferGeschutzenNeuntausends. Probably won't work, but maybe it will.
>>64216067the V1 and V2 rockets, the panzerfaust, the me 262 or the STG 44 were also wunderwaffen, their mistake was to concentrate on extremely expensive weapons to produce using already existing concepts like a super heavy tank or a rail gun, they should have invested in a multitude of more or less wacky and relatively cheap to produce concepts then refined little by little according to the results during the first months of research
>>64216374>panzerfaust>Wunderwaffen If it costs less to build than a rifle and has a production run in the millions, then it's probably not a wunderwaffen.
>>64216437A Wunderwaffen is not defined by price, for example Germany developed individual night vision goggles that were considered Wunderwaffen
>>64216487>A Wunderwaffen is not defined by priceI mean if we're not defining wunderwaffen by something semi-tangible like price/technical complexity, then we're left with a lot of examples of Wunderwaffen that probably only qualify for marketing/branding reasons. Night vision as a war winning tech is a bit silly since the Americans had active IR tech themselves and could build it in greater quantity than the Germans.
>>64216788In terms of effectiveness, an individual weapon that can pierce 100 mm of armor at 50 meters during WW2 deserves to be called "wunderwaffen" more than a night vision goggle
>>64210689It would've decimated them, do you claim otherwise?
>>64216819> an individual weapon that can pierce 100 mm of armor at 50 meters during WW2 deserves to be called "wunderwaffen"?????
>>64216078Are we now pretending the British didn't have bombers?
>>64216875All Wunderwaffen.
>>64216078Are you retarded
>>64219282>Wunderwaffen, for everyone!
>>64210574Simple. They were getting their shit kicked in by the Americans, British, and Russians. Ideologically speaking the American and Russian part of that stung them (as they saw both groups as effectively subhuman). Combined with that the RAF and USAAF Combined Bomber Offensive had effectively removed Germany's industrial base from the war. So, if Germany could only produce (to massively simplify for the sake of the conversation) 1 tank for every 10 that their enemies could build then - so the theory went - they'd have to make sure that that 1 tank could defeat 11 of the enemies tanks before it got destroyed. Obviously that theory is retarded, and doesn't account for the vast number of other factors that go into military calculations, but it was the least retarded plan they had - and it played to their political biases too - so they ran with it, and paid the price for doing so. It's just one of the sort of idiotic things that happens when your military answers to drug addled morons.
>>64210574They didn't. They were more focused on maintaining production lines than anyone.
>>64220569>So, if Germany could only produce (to massively simplify for the sake of the conversation) 1 tank for every 10 that their enemies could build then - so the theory went - they'd have to make sure that that 1 tank could defeat 11 of the enemies tanks before it got destroyed.Germany was building Pz IV right up to the end of the war because they didn't want to disrupt production numbers from retooling.
>>64220789True, but OP asked specifically about the thinking that lead to the Wunderwaffle bullshit. Also this is your scheduled reminder that the bulk of the Wehrmacht tank forces when they were actually able to operate as a highly mechanized 'Blitzkrieg' armored force was the cute little Pz II, which was basically just one step up from an armored go-kart.
>>64210574It's the Red Queen Hypothesis. You must constantly adapt and innovate to stay competitive or to gain an advantage over your enemies. It still applies today as well. Cheap drones will necessitate innovation in defense, which will necessitate innovation in new drones. It's a constant race to be ahead of the competition, and it has led to to biggest advancements in human civilization in just the last two centuries.
>>64220891>Casually conquers France and the entire easternmost part of the Soviet Union It is kind of funny considering that everyone associates Blitzkrieg with the iconic Tiger/Panther tanks, but they only came into service after German advances had stalled and the war had turned into an attritional slog that Germany had very little hope of winning. Their biggest successes really were when they were mainly driving aroud in clanky little claptraps like the Panzer II and III, wasn't it? Not that the early model Panzer's were viable latter in the war obviously (unless modified for Stug life). But still funny to think about.
>>64221083It gets even funnier when you imagine the three guys crammed into that thing, popping Methamphetamine pills like breathmints, kind of wishing that EDM/Eurobeat had been invented by that time so they could have had some tunes playing as they redline the engines driving into France.
>>64221099forgot the pic
>>64221083>claptraps like the Panzer II and IIIDon't forget the 38(t). German design at its best.
>>64221256>Pz 38(t)As German as the Fuhrer himself!
>>64221099Honeslty thinking about it if German tanks ever had a significant wunderwaffen esque technological edge it would have been early war when >They understood the importance of crew ergonomics and the advantage of 3 man (2 on lighter tanks) turrets>Fucking radios everywhere Better situational awareness/coordination tended to be more important than having more guns or armor than the opposition. Losing that advantage (allies ditched 1-2 man turrets and USA spams radios everywhere) couldn't be compensated for by the German's building bigger cats.
>>64221307Radios in every tank, and several in damn near every supporting infantry transport was unironically one of the seriously impressive things about the early war Wehrmacht, that and the Wermacht Einheitskanister.
>>64216875I don't know if you know but there were other fighter planes after the me 262
>>64210574>why germans believed in the wunderwaffe concept?they nearly had significant conceptual breakthroughs, like guided anti-air missiles, which could've helped them to shut down the allied air campaign till Germany had nuclear deterrence
>>64216875>piatkek.
Rumors about the existence of the V2 spread among soldiers and officers, giving them some hope. Wiretapped information from a captured German general by British intelligence included an old-timer asking a newcomer what was going on with the Wunderwaffe.
>>64210574>commit the ever increasingly limited resourcesGermany not only lacked material resources, they lacked manpower. Reformer logic is not the solution.Germany needed wunderwaffle because they needed a miracle. Lost on resources, lost on production, lost on manpower.
>>64210574germans didn't. hitler did. and hitler was a reality detatched megalomaniac, so it checks out.
>>64221083>It is kind of funny considering that everyone associates Blitzkrieg with the iconic Tiger/Panther tanks, but they only came into service after German advancesPeople forget that reality isn't world of tanks. The blitzkrieg was more about the mechanized infantry in trucks and half tracks than the tanks' armor thickness or cannon penetration. A 20mm cannon and armor that can stop machine guns is a terror in 1940, it is an IFV.
>>64221352Jerry cans are a marvel when you consider the alternative fuel can construction which has the sheet metal seams tracing the bottom rim, and still needs a seam up the side.
>>64210574why even still fight the war after kursk? there was no way of winning after 43. the 2 last years of the war dont make sense at all from the german perspective. there was no reason anymore, just madness.
>>64210574They knew they weren't as strong as their propaganda would depict. They were undersupplied the whole time. They gambled on above and beyond miracle weapons because they were too busy wearing looted French underwear and anything "normal" wouldn't work. It's praying for a miracle because they knew they were fucked if they did conventional.
>>64221352The Jerrycan was really miraculous in hindsight. The flimsies and other cans had nothing on it and we still use it today. Easier to make, effective, doesn't need specialized tools to open, can be stacked and durable, etc.>>64222746They had chased out several scientists saying they did Jewish Physics and several nuclear programs that clawed each other for resources because Hitler loved pitting men against each other because muh natural selection and ended up achieving nothing at all. They'd never get nukes until everyone else and everyone else's mom had a nuclear bomb.>>64224905This here. The politics involved with every decision matter a lot. Lots of this was ideologically motivated insanity. >>64226062From the Nazi POV, the war was a race war and every slav, jew, etc they could kill was important. They had many moments they diverted resources away from an undersupplied army just to kill more unarmed civilians because they saw that as the whole point of it all. Conventional war logic doesn't apply to them. Besides, it's not like the angry enemies would've spared them all.
>>64210574Because it obviously would have worked, and Hitler had enough scientists to build him a nuke. Sweden was already manufacturing heavy water during the war, and sold both to the USA and Germany, during the development of their nuclear programs.Obviously, the jewish plan was to kill as many white ethnic Europeans as possible, and enslave them with their goy golem USA, so Hitler got sabotaged in his efforts. There were at least a dosen German/Austrian scientists that could have got the bomb before the allies. They decided to conduct research in the USSR even before Barbarossa. Lots of very suspect maneuvering, again, with the only obvious result being sabotage.Now would it have been effective? I dunno, ask the Japanese.
>>64210574>why did germans believe in the concept of wunderwaffe?Fixed for gorgeous looks, you can post ASAP.
>>64210574because their opponents are insurmountable>British empire.. lol1/5th of the worlds surface, could probably depopulate the entire uk and still have reserves>us80% of the worlds total oil refinement capacity, has plenty of 100 to 150 octane gasalso weird stuff like most of the strategically valuable woodlands>Soviet Unionhuge, can shrug off tens of millions of casualties. winning only makes things worse for you, as your now hundreds of miles away from any useful land.side note they are hoarding most of the worlds nickel and alloying compounds.
>>64226062because they quite literally inimicated the entirety of europe and their acts of ethnic genocide were universally known and despised. hitler wanted to stay on power for as long as possible, as putin now is prolonging the war for the same reason, but the fact is that germans were absolutely certain that, after what the ss did, they would've received no quarter from anybody. so they were compelled to fight to the death because they knew if they lost their fates would've been worse.
>>64216374>sturmgewehr is a wunderwaffen
>>64226062It's a problem inherent in dictatorial regimes. The more that authority is centralized, the more removed from the actual situation on the ground the decision makers become, making it ever likelier that they will be making decisions based on incomplete or inaccurate information. Worse still, given the complexity of a modern industrial society and the inherent limits on the competency of even the greatest individual men, centralizing authority in a single man or small group means that many decisions will be getting made by someone with little or no real expertise in that area of administration.Basically, you've got Hitler sitting in Berlin getting fed overly optimistic reports by cronies who want to remain in his good favor, making decisions on high-level military strategy, procurement, and diplomacy when he never had any actual experience beyond the rank of corporal.
>>64220409
>>64210574Economies of scale. Germany was running out of oil and big engines consume proportionally less fuel than small engines.
>>64227006It is. Just because "it worked" and is now mundane doesn't mean that a machine gun that takes the form of a regular rifle isn't completely absurd from a 30's and 40's perspective. M1 Garands were wunderwaffe of WW1 as well.What makes a wunderwaffe a wunderwaffe is you can hold up this amazing technological advancement and scream "WITH THIS I WILL END THE WAR" and you get a big applause of "implessive" and the war continues regardless.
>>64226062>there was no reason anymoreThe reason was that Hitler/Goering/Goebbles/Himmler preferred suicide or execution in 1945 over 1943. Something about being alive for an extra 1-2 years.
>>64210574They knew that only miracle could save them. They started shitting bricks the moment the UK declared war on them and THEN the dreaded 2 front war happened kek.
>>64228801>They started shitting bricks the moment the UK declared war on themdelulu take
>>64229055Sure thing Herman - and "two hundred peace offers" by them was just because they were SO peaceful by nature (kek)
>>64229296You're retarded for thinking Hitler didn't know what the response to breaking the Versailles would have been.
>>64229426Are you stupid? The Germans had been getting away with breaking the Versailles treaty for many years before the war. >bbbut Hitler knew everything!!!!better get a new script or consult with other naziboos first.
>>64229587btw, Hitler had evidently chosen to be remembered for his cruelty than for his idiocy (kek)
>>64228801>They started shitting bricks the moment the UK declared war on them>Hitler sees ever-growing Red goliath that is the Russian army, which has outwardly stated it wants to turn everything communist>Ohshit.jpg maybe this is going to be difficult to overcome>Lol fuck you Germans, we'd rather the continent be communist than let jews get punished for their crimes!>Biggest betrayal of the 1900's.png
>>64229620>Hitler sees ever-growing Red goliath that is the Russian armyGermans were selling the Soviets their own military technology till the very Barbarossa (kek) but were still "surprised" when they met t-34s. That's how much they "saw" (kek)They were scared of Anglos (which btw achieved like 20:1 K/D versus them (kek - so much about muh German K/D)), not of "subhuman Slavs". They were stoned on their own farts in other words.
>>64229655The UK failed so hard against Germany they shat their pants, left their French ally to get capitulated, and spent the next four years building ersatz volksturm weapons for an invasion that never arrived.
>>6422966220:1 K/D
>>64229667>It was real in my mindGod the jews are still at it circa 2025
>>64229674Hitler kaput, Herman.
>>64226969And indeed, their fate was worse.
>>64229587You're retarded for thinking Hitler didn't know what the response to breaking the Versailles would have been.
>>64229677>YAY PATRICK WE SAVED EUROPE FROM THE NAZIS!>Half of Europe is red>British empire shattered>Literal talmudic jews now running the place
>>64229699rich vs poor map
>>64216296I'm pretty sure that has to do with defenders achieving more kills than attackers.
>>64211690>This also results in the germans having to equip tens of millions of their civilians with gas masks And they did, Volksgasmaske total production(45 millions) was not enough for the whole germany , but can still cover for a significant portion of the population, especially against older stuffs like phosgene.Brits produced much more for civies(107 millions), but we are talking newer and far more lethal nerve agents that the brits will have to face, not even m5 assault mask issued to omaha troops provide sufficient protection against nerve agent.And, the high population density of south east England would be much more vulnerable to concentrated nerve gas attacks, a relatively comparable densely populated ghouta was also hit by around half a ton of sarin using grad rockets
>>64226062Well, it turns out that the Bolsheviks and the chiefs of staff in both the UK and USA actually wanted to destroy the German people completely and wrote about it publicly! Wow!
>>64210869>something's off with their livestocksYou don't know shit about anthrax do you?
>>64216067>could have ended in 1943 if the US/UK would have negotiated.Why should they?
>>64229699Dresden won in the end...
>>64229655>which btw achieved like 20:1 K/D versus them (kek - so much about muh German K/DLol even the most Ally-generous comparisons state that only the Americans went 1:1 in select theaters and that the Germans mopped up everyone routinely.
>>64229620Germany and the Soviets were allies you fucking thick cunt
>>64229662Kek
>>64229655> 20:1Holy hell, did modern Brits education manage to drop that low ?Even with the most generous casualties deliberately estimated in allies favor, the kdr, at least for major western front battles post d-day couldn’t surpass 1:1.52 (138,529:210,720).The true kdr might as well be closer to 1:1.2 or 1:1.3 at best, and this was with total allies air supremacy during the two last years.> forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=226986I doubt a retarded britmutt like you could come up with a counter argument
Nazi Germany was running on IOUs up the wazoo and had to intentionally cull populations in Eastern Europe to avoid food shortages in Germany proper, the wunderwaffe was a last ditch effort to buy time. It didn't matter if Germany could build a Panzer that kills 4 Shermans for every 1 that gets burned, the Americans had 5 Shermans. Same goes for the Soviets and the Soviets had the ability to make some stupidly heavy tanks by the end of the war, so Germany had to not only face economically optimized tanks but also proto MBTs and only could make one or the other themselves. The wunderwaffe angle is also overplayed, Germany still at the end of the day relied on a lot of cheaper to make Panzers, StuGs and other vehicles to keep their numbers up.
>>64230218To be fair the Allies were attacking most of the time, to inflict equal casualties on a dug in defender is pretty good. The Germans fell for the same illusion and blew their load in the Battle of the Bulge, only for them to realize the Americans were as numerous as the Russians but smarter.
>>64210644yeah Germany defo fucked up by going against science and expelling their most educated people. Viking boi Odin ain't gonna conjure up an atomic bomb. Oppenheimer and Einstein did
>>64230334Jeez, you guys are dense. I was obviously talking about total war casualties, not about the results of some selected pitched battles. (you may check the "How the War Was Won" by O'Brien for some elaboration of this approach. Named battles mattered little in WW2; the Western Allies were plying completely different game by the rules they enforced on Germans).Compare the German and British bars on pic rel; that's it. >bbbut one Tiger Tank could have destroyed 35 Shermans!!!whatever
>>64230464> first bragged about muh 20:1 kdr> got debunked> uhm akshualky I was just pretending to be retarded, it’s all about the war casualties !!!Nice deflection about something that has absolutely fuckall to do with what you spouted out in the first place, bozo
>>64230483Did you really thought that I meant that D-day, the Arnhem etc had 20:1 in favour of the British?>proudly debunked!Naziboos truly believe that everybody else is retarded and _they_ are smart. (I've seen such attitude among Gypsies too kek)
>>64230505> did you reallyThen it seems it’s you who actually can’t even write up a coherent argument while trying to gaslight everyone, retardo-kun.> muh nazibooBack to pleddit, then. Or try to lurk a bit more, maybe you’ll learn a thing or two to not actually sound like a brickhead
>>64230531>>/pol is here
>>64230545>much polKek, I accept your concessionAlso, big talk about gypsies behavior, when it’s you who couldn’t even come up with a coherent thought. I’ve seen way smarter rednecks
>>64230557>I accept your concessionOh yeah, I recognize this shtick. Certain /poltard who also like to play a village idiot on /his/ and /k/
>>64230567Except I’ve never even browse /his/, biz k and pol is more of my thing.Though consider the level of your intellect, maybe some random autist was enough to live rent free in your meathead for so long, that’s quite unheard of
>>64210574americunts and third worls niggers listen up, aryan typing:you are still running after smth hyped up by history channel and model kit producers.and its 'Vergeltungswaffe" = V1, V2... or has anyone ever heared of a W1?
>>64230578>Except I’ve never even browse /his/And then everyone clapped.
>>64230595Oh great ! So you have finally learned there’s a whole world outside of /his/ ?So…can we start working on your intellect now ? I mean, try using gypsies as some sort of insult with that meathead level of iq is kinda…hypocritical, don’t ya think ?
>>64230589Germans are technologically talented. Socially, politically, emotionally they are clearly underdeveloped.
>>64230612I knew that the "gypsie" will hurt you. Master race ubermensch and all (kek)
>>64230631>gypsieMore projection, again ?So may I say calling you a meathead also got you riled up about a certain autist that been living rent free in your head for so long ?
>>64230643Dude, you are known to _try_ scrape out a W from every lost argument with "I accept your concession". kekYou are quite unique.
>>64230654> W What W to scrape off here ? I’m just having fun on a Sunday evening, it just you getting so riled up after getting called out for being a meathead on a vietnamese rice grinding forum, retardo-kun.But work on your vocabulary, you seem rather slow in the head
>>64230671kek, a natural born imbecileno wonder that you need the heritage of "your" whole race to have some self-respect even (kek)
>>64229712>>Half of Europe is redKek>Be Germans Karl Marx and Friedrich Engel>Create Communist Manifesto>Ideology popular but material conditions in industrialized nations are such it can never truly take root>Be Germany >Kick off WW1>Hamstrung between Eastern and Western fronts>idea.exe>Destabilize Russian empire by fomenting Bolshevism>Holy shit it actually works>Lose the war anyway>9 to 15 million dead, mostly fighting age males but also women and children>Conditions which cause Ottomans to chimp out, .8 to 1.2 Armenian christians dead>Europe too weak to stop Soviet ascendancy - Holodomor, Red Terror, Russian Civil War total approx. 18 million dead>Be Germany again>Kick off WW1 part 2 electric boogaloo>Lose (again)>15 to 20 million european deaths>Soviets now stronger than ever and have a permanent foothold in Eastern Europe>Western allies depleted by war forced to abandon colonies, effectively sowing the seeds for unstable shitholes to pour immigrants into Europe>Butcher's Bill: estimated 54 million dead Europeans by 1945 on the high end, soviet union you helped create now raping your women, brownoids no longer checked and free to multiply with abandon>Be OP, dipshit, fail to take all of the above into consideration and blame the western allies insteadYeah
>>64230692> muh race> screeched about pol> now blabbering like a true /pol/estinianAnything worthwhile to contribute, retardo-anon ?
>>64230703I've contributed quite a bit already, but feel free to ask.
>>64211547Basically this someone born in the 70s came to a world where cavalry charges were a think, they left a world with space craft and atomic weapons.
>>64230696*be Anon, not OP
>aw sweet a thread about material conditions of ww2 germany and the inherent constraint of the term wunderwaffe due to its linguistic connotations?>30 replies until it descends into verbal shitflinging and madnessWhy do you guys always have to be like this?
>>64216318Once within a human being the agent blocks cell absortion of oxygen, you don't need to completely saturate someone with the gas, just inhale enough to disrupt natural functions.
>>64231192There's a lot of autismos who obsess over this stuff and absolutely cannot concede to anyone else's viewpoint. /k/ has always been full of autism and became even worse with the pettiness when reddit flooded in.
>>64231535I could have sworn it wasn't that bad even a year ago.
>>64230151and rightly so.Fuck germany for all the bullshit they perpetrated on the homelands.
>>64226535fuck off back to pol you retard
>>64230202Because making great business DEALS is better. Same as it ever was, ever is and ever will be.
>>64230696Don't forget how Wilhelm II and Hidenburg freighted an armored train specifically to help Lenin in exile in Switzerland to travel through Europe up to Russia so he could do his red revolution.Only for it to bite in the ass a few decades years later, with half of the german women gangraped by bolcheviks.Man, the butterfly effect on that one. Karma is a bitch.We still live with the consequences of that red wave, be it on chyna's side or on what's left of Russia still thinking it's an empire, the butterfly is still flying. It's not over.
>>64234472Yep, and at least with the runup to WW2 old Uncle H had plenty of offramps to come out smelling like roses - got Danzig, got the Sudetenland.. all he had to do was sit on his laurels, bask in the industrial and population growth of the country whilst cementing the anti comintern pact. But no, he had to go off on his halfcocked revanchist crusade- and then idiots will blame the allies for intervening.Seems thematically congruent with a more recent conflict
>>64235408Hitler was never likely to be terribly pragmatic in the long term. On a fundemental level he was as equally driven by grievances about Germany's defeat to the Western Allies in WW1 as he was by romantic aspirations of playing cowboys and Indians across the Eurasian Steppe (like America did in the Old West). That meant picking fights (often mass murderous fights to the death) against pretty much everybody was always the plan. Obviously this was retarded from a rational real politik perspective since you'll start losing the second you manage anything less than nonstop decisive victories in sequence. But Hitler was never an Otto Von Bismarck.
>>64232035Listen, you dumb nigger, you might not get this not-so-subtle point, because you are a dumb nigger, but there is a massive difference between a people and a government. The "Good Guys" are factually documented as WANTING to eliminate THE GERMAN PEOPLE in order to maintain their fucking gay plan to keep their banks and hegemony while deepthroating godless Bolsheviks. Absolute Jewnigger behavior. Morgenthau was personally okay with genociding 30+ million Germans, a people who had contributed more to arts and science and philosophy and labor laws and education and both human and animal rights than the parasitic Jews who ruled the coinpurse. The Soviets massacred millions of German women and children after the Germans surrendered and they never saw one consequence for it, not even chastisement. The Germans were completely justified in fighting to the death, because the Allies did exactly what they said they were going to do. Britain couldn't bear to share their hegemony with anyone but Jews. And now the Allies have received the consequence for their betrayal of virtue, suffering the same fate as the Germans, witnessing their people and lands diminished into nothingness, all for the pursuit of GDP to serve Jews. Enjoy your unsafe streets and debt. It didn't have to be this way, and no matter how many times you write down that the Allies were the good guys, the world they produced is fake and gay, and Europe will be gone forever. Great win. They could have allied with the Germans and prevented globohomo and we'd be colonizing space with history books written to gloss over the German war crimes, the same as our current books gloss over strafing German women and children with gunfire or sundering their country in two. Great win!
>>64210574>one would think they were smartThey were Nazis. Of course they were stupid.
>>64234472Ever since Modern Germany existed their entire clever plans for how to win have always been related:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKMzMZWRKVc
>>64237038> The "Good Guys" are factually documented as WANTING to eliminate THE GERMAN PEOPLE in order to maintain their fucking gay plan The Soviets - as well as the Jews - most likely did want to take revenge on Germans post WW2; if the West was also ruled by "kikes" there would have been no Germans anymore as no one would have defended them. Germany was rebuilt with the Marshall plan instead. So much about your schizobabble.
>>64238031Germany was rebuilt in a hurry because the godless commies were standing right there on their borders with millions of soldiers, tanks and aircraft. If they decided to just keep going in 1945, it wouldn't be easy to stop them, if at all possible. Obviously the USSR was kept alive by allied material shipments so this was not realistic, but Hitler invading the USSR was not realistic either and still happened.even fucking Patton himself said that they need to rebuild Germany fast because of the soviets.
>>64238031Nobody took "revenge" on Germany after WW2, if anything they got off extremely lightly.What should have happened is Germany should have been completely decolonized. It's still an imperialist nazi state today.
>>64210574Nazi high command were stupid, could not understand logistics or military lift
>>64210633if the war continued for 2-3 months the nazis would have deployed nukes for sure even that cube form which was only apparently 40% yield of the nagasaki one would have caused an insane amount of damage
>>64210793Anthrax doesn’t kill humans? Are you fucking retarded??
>>64216091It’s 2025 stop being a gay millennial and grow up
>>64238655I think what he means is that unlike humans who can properly combat disease livestock often get 1 shot by epidemics either through preventive culling or just all exposing eachother to it.
>>64210574it's about vanity
>>64238031Go read about the Morgenthau Plan that preceded the Marshall plan, dumbass. Before the U.S. realized that Hitler was (surprise) right about the Communist threat to all of Europe, it was the official policy to virtually crush and starve Germany. This policy was emphatically backed by the Jews and Socialists and Communist sympathizers that were in FDR's cabinet, namely Morgenthau and Harry Dexter White, who was an actual Soviet spy, and this is not even debated today lmao. The Morgenthau Plan was deeply unpopular with the non-Jews in FDR's cabinet and most of his Generals, so much so that FDR later had to lie and disavow what he had signed. Try reading some history that didn't get the good goy stamp of approval, dumbass. Also, please show me how the Marshall Plan held the Soviets accountable for the millions of German women and children they killed after the war ended. There has never been any accountability in the West for what was allowed in Germany. At least the Japs got Presidential visits and memorials and days of remembrance for the war crimes brought upon them. By contrast, the allowed violation of the German people by the Allies is a big fat skeleton in the closet, especially when you consider that 40%+ of White Americans have mostly German ancestry.Great win by the goodest guys ever!
>>64239643*German ancestry (read: "Family")
>>64238627No, they wouldn't have. Nazis were nowhere near nukes, they couldn't even match the Chicago Pile.
>>64239643The Germans sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind, simple as. The fact that a German state was allowed to exist at all after 2 apocalyptic sperg outs in less than 30 years speaks only to the magnanimity of the western allies.
>>64210574Hey, they worked great. Every day spent designing a superweapon that could totally turn the tide of the war, no really mein Fuhrer, was another day spent safe-ish behind the lines and not sent to the front.
>>64239772their atomic cube was far ahead of anything usa had anyways moron cause suprise suprise they started BEFORE paperclip...
>>64239946The "GDR" was allowed to exist without the western allies' approval.They ensured that West Germany was structurally tied to them with organizations like ECSC and NATO.
>>64240092There's a reason no one else did cubes, and their art piece didn't even have an effective moderator since the Nazis focused on heavy water (a dead end due to their inability to stockpile enough or create more). Cope all you want, the Germans would never have gotten beyond a distant fourth in the race, and it is extremely unlikely they would've even made it to the finish line.
>>64240092>he doesn't know u need da joos to get da booms
>>64237038I like to think if Nazi Germany didn't sperg out and start invading half their neighbors and just worked jews to death secretly they would have received assistance from the US to squash the eventual commie threat.
>>64221083AI-slop imagine, but I wonder if it would have been viable mid-war on if instead of the Ferdinand Porsche/Hitler/Speer fever dreams they've developed a Sherman-equivalent and churned them out in the ten thousands.
>>64240248Quite possibly because German Jews were German citizens; just so happens that rulers are allowed to do what they please with their own subjects. Nazis attacking other countries triggered alliances.
>>64240144yes obviously thats why i said its yield was at most 40% of the nagasaki bomb it was ineffective but still it could go supercritical
>>64240144Germany could have gotten the bomb with a few simple steps:-don't scare away half of your scientists -don't piss off Belgians-consider what impurities graphite might have.
>>64210574A combination of>desperation>R&D being used as a vehicle for graft and embezzlement (Nazi Germany was obscenely corrupt)>Hitler's refusing to take "No" for an answer and appointing retarded yes-men to positions of power>said yes-men attempting to keep their posts by giving him ever-increasingly unrealistic appraisals of Germany's situation>some genuinely good ideas that were heading in the right direction but were never going to reach their full potential because of the limitations of associated technologies at the time (ex. the V1 and V2 were never going to have the desired battlefield effect so long as they had a >7 mile CEP)>>64211728>Another reason why the Soviets picking "gas chambers" for their blood libel was really dumb.>But as the War was prolonged German soldiers and workers gradually fell back into the hands of the Marxist leaders, and the number of those who thus relapsed became lost to their country. At the beginning of the War, or even during the War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Jews who were corrupting the nation had been forced to submit to poison-gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: If twelve thousand of these malefactors had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men, who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved. But it was in accordance with bourgeois 'statesmanship' to hand over, without the twitch of an eyelid, millions of human beings to be slaughtered on the battlefields, while they looked upon ten or twelve thousand public traitors, profiteers, usurers and swindlers, as the dearest and most sacred national treasure and proclaimed their persons to be inviolable.That's literally from the last chapter of Mein Kampf.
>>64240257The StuG and Panzer III/IV already existed and were being optimized for mass production. The problem that arises is that unless you can impact American industry you'll still be outgunned by ever more upgunned Shermans, which is what happened.
>>64240650Nah, Pz. IV reached its design limit, while the Sherman still had enough wiggle room to fit a 105mm cannon from the AMX-30 post-war. The Panther should have been about ten tones lighter as a true Sherman/T-34 equivalent. Then again probably the krauts still wouldn't have been able to make enough.
