Hey guys,I'm working on a novel and wanted to get useful input without sifting through a bunch of retards who don't even know fundamentals.>The autistic use-case in question:I'm setting everything in a post-colonial society on Venus, floating 'cloud cities' and all that.The habitats are very utilitarian, not unlike interconnected oil platforms, but with open air rather than water. >With that in mind, any military or paramilitary engagements are either gonna be indoors in sealed environments or on the platforms themselves, let's say ≤50m in general and ranging out to ≤100m.Given the above, I am debating whether something a little weird for our current day - say a handle-mag smg or a bullpup rifle - might emerge as the 'go-to' weapon. Could this be a haven for SMGs?I'm also debating about out of fashion cartridges like 7.62 Tokarev for the same reason.What do you think? Open to any and all input.
>>64210935What's the use case. Are we talking civilian sidearms, weapons for security staff on an industrial facility, or military arms? Are these "habitats" more like an industrial dormitory or is this a utopian civillian space colony?
>>64210935Are there ever engagements from platform to platform? You might need something with range if so. Also need to take into account how fragile the infrastructure is. Wouldn't want to take out all the life support systems with some over-penetration.My heart says 5.7 is the caliber of choice. Lightweight so you save on the cost to ship it to Venus. You can have 5.7 PDWs like the P90 and still have 5.7 sidearms. If you want the magazine in the grip of the PDW, you could make a fictional version of the MP7 chambered for 5.7x28. Would probably do less damage to infrastructure than 9mm. Really depends on engagement distance and whether anyone will have hard body armor.
Are the buildings actually bulletproof or is this a one hole sucks us all into space/killed us setting?
>>64210967Thanks for the questions!>Specifically military, policing, and private security use case, civilians are a whole other deal"If all your gunfights are in this sort of environment, would SMGs be the go-to weapon?">Are the habitats more industrial dorm or utopian?Generally more industrial, but several mothballed / abandoned efforts to make 'resort towns' that are nicer, but less functional (IE only psychos and loners end up living there)>>64211034>Are there ever platform to platform engagementsYes, but factors like wind and atmospherics make it shittier than on earth. I agree that it's a range a military would *want* to be able to do something in, but I'm undecided if it's enough to want every trooper having said capability.I could see at least GPMG or DMR roles being responsible for at least skirmishing and suppression at that distance >Infrastructure fragilityOne of my factors. Not quite as bad as a space station (like the habs don't just fall out of the sky or explode like the hindenburg) but troops definitely don't want to shoot up their own shit. Certain components can only be shipped in from off worlds for more complex repairs too.>CaliberI am glad you addressed the 'one caliber for primary and sidearm' piece because I think it's critical to people in this setting. I think a lot will come down to logistics rather than anyone having particularly fancy weaponry.>armorGenerally consists of soft armor that's slightly better than we have now and hard plates that are only marginally better. Places that see more warfare (see: Earth & Mars) have much more robust armor, but Venus is kind of Africa-tier and lacks any fancy sci fi armor.
>>64211353Great question!Bulletproof varies, not unlike here on earth, but the sort of habitats in use actually only sink very slowly due to structural damage so no one's at risk of the whole thing just falling because someone shot something they shouldn't have.That said, the air requires rebreathers or gas masks to breathe, so springing a bunch of leaks could definitely cause issues to people who don't have a mask on or near them. This would be a go-to terrorist move, I think.>Blow open hole in hab block where people don't have easy access to filters or 02>Panic ensues>While everyone is freaking out like a plane that has had its oxygen masks drop, proceed to firebomb that gene mod center or what have you>Disappear in the confusion
>>64211579Thanks for answering.I'm 2nding what >>64211034 said. A hot bottlenecked pistol or PDW round seems to make the most sense. Something like 5.7x28, 7.5 FK, .224 BOZ, 4.6x30, etc. If the bullet is lightweight with high velocity it will have reasonably effective AP capability at close range but will lose energy fast and wouldn't cause much harm at distance.> I think a lot will come down to logistics rather than anyone having particularly fancy weaponry.Anon, YOU are the author. What it should "come down to" is whatever fits the aesthetic of the setting you are trying to tell stories in. You have the ability to make anything (within reason) make sense, because you're the one writing the justification for it. Go with what helps tell the story you want to tell.
>>64211629Oh, and about SMGs: No, I doubt those would see much use. SMGs made sense when you needed to have minimally trained but well-supplied soldiers fight an enemy in mass numbers. It doesn't seem like that really applies here, I'm imagining smaller numbers of better-trained people and nobody has the luxury of magdumping ammo which costs god-knows-what to ship there. They could very well have machine guns, but I don't think uzis and thompsons make any sense, even if updated in caliber.Also, this is a totally different direction you could take this: if poking holes in the space station is a real problem then the opposite might work: big, fat, relatively low-velocity slugs. 1/2" of Lexan will stop a .45 ACP FMJ A re-invention along the lines of the old .577 Manstopper would put a person in a world of hurt at short range but would be a minimal threat to the walls of the station. I don't know how important that element of the story is for you, but it's an angle to consider. Now the obvious downside of big fat low-velocity rounds is low capacity, but it might be something you could work with.
>>64210935Are you using lead, steel, copper, or something else for your bullets? How does Venus get the materials for ammo production? Are they doing some sort of tether from city to surface that elevator's up mining materials? Orbital factories catching ore shipments from the asteroid belts? WTF is even the industry on Venus?
>>64211629>>64211671Cheers! This is great meat to chew on and I'm glad I brought it here.I'm not generally very autistic about worldbuilding, but in this specific case I want things to immediately resonate as plausible. Running stuff by others helps.
>>64211713>What are the bullets made of?Lead and plastic, largely. The former actually kind of 'rains' on venus, and will be very plentiful.>Where do they source materials?Equal parts atmospheric / planetary extraction and trade with the wider solar system via Economic Exception Zones (free starports that facilitate interplanetary commerce)You are exactly right about the tethers. They can be deployed tendril-like to deploy drone harvesters and then scoop them back up when full. Humans try to avoid the surface if at all possible because it's a deathtrap.>WTF is the industry on Venus?Complex.Basically it was settled first as a source of outsourced clone slave labor for near-Earth manufacturing, pharma testing, and cybernetics proving.Once the Space UN declared clones / 'artificial' humans to have human rights (and then threatened to nationalize the participating corps), several different attempts to salvage the operation were tried (and failed) ranging from a cheap alternative to terrestrial pregnancy to heavy resource extraction.Ultimately Venus' niche ended up being as a source for designer drugs, grey market goods, a tax refuge, and as a haven for sketchy finance, which gives it a petro-state tier economy. The states on venus manage to be decently self-sufficient, but the only *actual* economy comes from interests in the wider solar system taking advantage that the space UN wants nothing to do with the place.
The answer is .300 BLK SBRs. You can use whatever proprietary meme dogshit you want, I wouldn't be half surprised if the administrators of this space colony bought P90s because they watched Stargate SG1 as kids, but .300 BLK is the optimal cartridge for this setting and the AR will never be replaced as long as chemical propellants continue to be a thing.
>>64211912I've been anticipating this post and I'm glad it's here.A few relevant things I've been considering:>I can easily imagine a stark line between 'proprietary shit that looks futuristic and was designed on planet' vs 'the gun that wins fights'>Some colonies likely stiff your average joe with the former, but any units expected to actually get shit done are rolling with M2s and AR-style SBRs because "I don't care that it's an old design it's cheap and gets shit done">By that same measure, and given Venus' status as a place for borderline failed states and banana republics, if the above is true I could see 'primitive AR style guns' becoming a sort of calling card for conflict on the planetIt stands to reason that 'masked venusian dudes mounted on a speeder with SBRs and a .50' is the new 'masked arab / african dudes mounted on a hilux with AKs and & .50'
>>64211034>I'm also debating about out of fashion cartridges like 7.62 Tokarev for the same reason.Don't. We're further along in propellant tech than ever, moving out into a more developed solar system means the F-22 will be closer to the Tokarev than whatever munitions come out of the developments since then.>My heart says 5.7 is the caliber of choice. Lightweight so you save on the cost to ship it to Venus.It makes more sense to try to move production facilities "up" from the nearest places where it can be scaled. Do you have propellant synthesis from hydrocarbon feedstock? Equally, metal rich locales inclusive of asteroids along with small scale, forward production will favor different firearms for "boutique" use cases (you are not fielding hardware for a national military).
>>64210935If these are smart people building on site, custom propellants and designs are an option.
>>64211827Anon I hate to say something really cursed but ever consider designing a:>Mostly polymer gunOnly things that are metal are:>Barrel>Barrel trunnion/microreceiver/optics rail>Bolt faceAnd even then it doesn't "have to be" fully metal, like the barrel could have a phase change material meets thermally conductive polymer heatsink/jacket around it. Depending on the action, you may need some metal rails or some kind of bearing surface (perhaps even a round type BCG path or if you're really cursed you're dealing with electric ignition to reduce weight/complexity more).The reason I bring this up is because of the potential material bias in terms of what is available and because you'd have the option to have unironic injection molded plastic lead hoses that are low cost of production enough to be considered "throwaway" in terms of parts.>muh meltingSee thermosets, you burn before you melt>muh stiffnessSee long carbon fiber reinforcement to add sufficient stiffness so the barrel doesn't weeble wobble out of the poor battered polymer frame it sits inNot saying plastic guns only is the way forwards but manufacturing technology advancements will favor interesting developments.>Sovlless extruded receivers made by the bar from a compact extruder that can be disassembled into a van>Laser sintered, lightly machined and polished mechanicals>Full electronic ignition to do away with the former due to tyranny of mass
>>64211609I imagine it might be a cultural norm to carry around an emergency air tank with you
>>64212530I wanted to say it'd be funny if that type of person was treated like a modern prepper but it sounds like it's not entirely unreasonable day to day. I still hope there's some Burt Gummer fucker who takes the idea too far until suddenly it's not too far at all.
>>64212530It'd be like the cultural norm of having a parachute in the early era of aviation where you know things can be fucked fast. Insurance makes sense when the other option is to simply just die.
>>64212771Hell. Yeah.
>>64212409why does shit like this go nowhere?
>>64210935Punishers
>>64210935>I'm setting everything in a post-colonial society on VenusWhy are you concerned with modern day gun details from autists like caliber when humans in your universe have the technology to colonize a planet? Think 500+ years from now. Take inspiration from realism but make some shit up.
>>64213485Because it doesn't actually exist.
>>64210935>With that in mind, any military or paramilitary engagements are either gonna be indoors in sealed environments or on the platforms themselves, let's say ≤50m in general and ranging out to ≤100m.That is going to be SMG or bullpup territory.Tavor 7 comes to mind.
How's the gravity? Venus is about 90% of Earth, but also you're saying cloud cities, so high altitude which further decreases gravity. Venus also has atmospheric super-rotation, so has there been any terraforming to reduce the high winds?Slightly off topic, but I'd suggest emphasizing some forms of alternative warfare. Lower impulse projectiles like grenades, thrown or launched, would have longer ranges. Take a look at some of the strange ways the America and Japan took pot shots at each other, like Fu-Go balloon bombs. Letting the Venusian winds carryout an attack, a way for small forces of saboteurs or terrorists to appear to launch larger offensives by spreading their attack over a wider area, or as a distraction for a surgical strike against a high value target.Depending where the technology is or if you want to get a bit fantastical, gliders could also be effective means to attack from unconventional angles. Or hell, something like the Fulton recovery system but a bit more wind-surfer as an extraction method.And are you a fan of Cowboy Bebop? Going to slip in some cheeky little references to Waltz For Venus? Some plant that releases spores that cause blindness or rare and coveted plant like Grey Ash?
>>64213550I've fielded this question IRL to so I want to make sure to respond here.One of the key factors in the 'vibe' of this version of Venus is that it is the future's third world (ba dum tish).These are the guys who everyone else scoffs at for still using a Mosin or Martini Henry in 2025, but they still use it because for their backwater puddle of a planet it works well enough.This is for one simple reason: when reading genre fiction I like grounded and plausible weapons. My fantasy writing is the same way.Weapons:>Speak volumes about the material and cultural conditions of the society the story is set in>Are very important, since they help you not get eaten (hippies forget this)>Because of the above are an excellent form of expression, which means that from a writing standpoint it can do a ton of lifting for the setting without having to have a bunch of characters exposition to one anotherGood and helpful question. This is why.
>>64210935This thread is short on the specific detail of estimated engagement range and wind conditionsAlso, what body armour if any is the weapon intended to defeat?If this society is advanced enough to run a floating Venusian colony, hand electromagnetic railguns launching polymer needle flechettes are not out of the question I think
>>64213751>How's the gravity?Negligibly different from Earth because of the location of the habitats in atmo. Just enough that mercs or advisors from Earth bitch about it feeling off.>Venus also has atmospheric super-rotation, so has there been any terraforming to reduce the high winds?Nope! This is a huge reason why people don't go on casual strolls outside and why any conflict outside is a fucking mess. A 'hail mary' grapple-harpoon thing and an 'anchoring suite' that grounds you to keep you from flying off to your death are standard military kit if there's any chance of operating outdoors. As >>64212530 points out losing troopers to the planet itself is avoided at all cost.>Slightly off topic, but I'd suggest emphasizing some forms of alternative warfare.This is very helpful and I agree. This is one of the reasons I'm being very autistic about this setting: environment strongly influences what conflict looks like and I would like to get that across.>Gliders / FultonI'm leaning hard into wacky shit that would never work on Earth, in part to get those 'third world' vibes across.It ends up being an interesting contrast: indoors conflict really looks similar to what we know now (as Aliens taught us), but the second we are outside dealing with the fact that everything is in motion in a toxic atmosphere things get very unconventional.Especially agree with your terrorist / dissident use-case. Excellent point.>Going to slip in some cheeky little references to Waltz For Venus?Emphatically yes. Bebop, Policenauts, Alien, and Gundam are very loud influences so I will unabashedly be doing so. This is part of why Venus winds up a place where polities and corps throughout the solar system like to set up blacksites and even the venusian colonies gravitate towards designer drugs, gene mods, artificial life etc.
>>64210935It's the future, right?5.7 with delayed-upon-impact exploding ammo
>>64214513It is the future, yes.The main limiter is that the setting is explicitly thirdie, so it's not at all unlikely that those that can rock with cool scifi rounds like you describe, but your average goon likely won't have access.
>>64215822>explicitly thirdieJust give them a beat up ak and make it a family heirloom like the afgani muzzle loaders
>>64215833"Futuro, my son, this is ancient terran artifact. It has killed men for 3 centuries. Will you take it in your hands? Or will you wield modernist pig dog spacer flechette gun like a fag?"
