Knife fighting arts, like kali, and knife self-defense is all bullshit right? I mean 2 guys in a knife fight is literally all about who strikes first and there is no way to effectively defend yourself from a knife-wielder if you are unarmed, right?
I think the idea is to limit damage to yourself. What these youtube demostrations never show you is that in real knife fight you ARE going to get cut no matter how good you are. The way to win is to protect your vital organs.
>>64244964knife fights are fucked, it's the joke "one dies on the ground, the other in the ambulance"
>>64245027Swords and spears were no better. Sword wounds are way worse then gunshot wounds. Our ancestors were so fucking tough compared to us its crazy
>>64244997>>64245027That's what I mean. It's fucking terrifying. If you get in a gun fight and you're well-prepared, you come out on top. A fist fight? If you are well-prepared you come out on top. A knife fight? Doesn't matter how well-prepared you are, you're most likely getting seriously sliced up even if your opponent has no idea what he's doing and is just flailing around.
>>64245045Swords are easier to not get killed with. With knives, if one guy wants to make sure you both die, he can do it 100% of the time, doesn't matter how skilled you are.
>>64244964If you have a coat wrap it around your knife arm and attack with a forward stance with a slightly wide side stance like you see in fencing but more for loose ground and standing upright than wide like a fencer. Attack their knife hand and make them drop the knife. It's best to have a sharp short knife than a dull long one. Slashes look better with a jury than a stab in defense. They're considered defensive attacks.
>>64244964Kali is pretty serious about making people dead if that's what you want in a martial art. The downside is that while its easy to give you a fair bit of practical instruction and some light sparring, its pretty difficult to simulate beating motherfuckers about with a stick, shanking cunts and all the other lunacy that goes into slicing up someone like a side of ham.Sorta hard to simulate the blood, pain, screaming and abject terror!
>>64244964Most modern martial arts, and ancient martial arts taught modernly like muai thai, have training and drills against knife attacks.The two main issues are knwoing what is legit and practicing it enough to make it count.There are predictable arcs that someone will follow depending on how they hold the mnife. Parrying and dismanteling or stabbing back is all about understanding them and countering correctly.
>>64244964>" I mean 2 guys in a knife fight is literally all about who strikes first"Definite no on this point. About the safest thing you can do in a matched knife fight is maintain distance and countercut to the knife holding hand/wrist and just doing that comprises 90% of all the non bullshit systems.
>>64244964>Give it to me straightthere are some knife fight vids on /gif/rect/ right now, go watch and see how ugly it really is
>>64245439I really don't like this idea for 2 main reasons1. I would imagine you need considerable force to essentially slap the knife out of the opponents hands. Simply cutting their hand up or wrist up wouldn't be sufficient to discourage the attacker unless the cut compromised a tendon or you severed an artery and they lose steam from blood loss. Adrenaline is a hell of a thing and in a life or death situation I don't think pain or a few cuts is a sufficient deterrent in most cases2. Following my poibt above, this is essentially drawing out the fight needlessly and puts all defensive emphasis on you. So you parry the guy 1, 2 or 3 times and cut him up a bit in the process. He's still a threat and you're essentially giving him free reign to continue to try his luck, and luck is a fickle thing. We've seen knives stop dudes in a matter of seconds when slashed or stabbed in a vunerable area, why would that not be your target? Secondly, if maintaining distance is the key then it must be a means to an end, which means finding an oppoetunity to escapw from the situation or finding a better weapon that you can use to maintain the distance while incapacitating the attacker. It makes no sense to me to maintain distance and do nothing with that except slash at his hands a bit until he either gives up or can't utilize them anymore.
>>64245584This is all you really need to know OPhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZpyKSmgdE&rco=1
>>64245167ThisA sword can defend against a sword. A knife can not defend against a knife, it can only attack.
>>64244964you win the knife fight by booking it the fuck out of there. Do not get in a knife fight, dirt to the eyes and running the fuck away is infinitely preferable to having some drunken goober disembowling you because he doesnt like your hat.>defending against knife-wielderbravely run away. if that is not an option, shoot him. if thats not an option, kick him in the dick.
>>64245439That's good until one guy suicide lunges towards your carotid (neck), brachial (upper arm and armpit), or femoral (inner thigh). Some people are so willing to kill you that they'll even risk dying in the process.
>>64244964>>defense against a knife Yeah, literally anything with reach. A stick, a shirt, anything >>magic knife cuts through So many zoomer dipshit children here now>>swords spears Fucking kill you. You have no armor. People who used to live had armor. You will have limbs cleaned off and playing card size cuts all the way through your body.>>knife fight so deadly one dies, one dies on the wayNo. Knife fights more often end with horrific cuts on the hands and arms. Slashes all over the body and a living victims. That is the reason military use knives are 7" or over. Hitting the vital organs is what kills. Often when someone is murdered with a knife there are many, many stab wounds. Takes a long damn time to bleed out anon.
The effectiveness of a knife is massively dependent upon the sharpening job and the finish at the point. I don't take any edged weapon martial art or practitioner seriously unless they begin with solid sharpening skills. A properly sharpened knife can slice a grown man's arm down to the bone and render him instantly crippled with very little effort.
>>64246665>>instantly crippled Shut the fuck up faggot. Fucking poser
>>64246685I'm a professional butcher. I know what knives are capable of.
Ill share the limited knowledge I know. First off, dont get into a knife fight, but if you do for some reason, plant your feet. left foot forward and right foot back. when moving you do a shuffle kinda thing to make it harder to get knocked over. knife in your right hand held down around your waist. left are is held up like a shield. best case scenario, only the back of your left arm gets cut up. slash and stab at your enemies knife hand until a better target is open. dont forget to breath, alot of ppl start holding their breath in a fight. lastly fight as dirty as possible, throw shit, bite, eye gouge, any trick you can use to get an advantage.
>>64244964i trained with that guy a bit a decade ago.if your in a knife fight, first of what the fuck are you doing there, and second of Defang the Sake, and maintain distance
>>64246889You are a larping 20 something who works in a grocery store. Shut the fuck up already with the larp. Im a trained soldier with fucking stab wounds and then some to back up my opinion. There is nothing crippling about cutting a portion of muscle to the bone. A real butcher would know this. Not some larping faggot. Muscles work in individual sections that form a larger group that move joints from different angles. You don't know shit and it shows.
>>64246889Someone post the picture of the guy who is sliced head about 80 times to fucking toe with a razor knife who walked his ass into the er to be stitched up.
>>64246933lol, ok tranny. have a good day in 7th grade tomorrow!
>>64246933you know what tendons and ligaments are, bitch?
>>64244997>>64245027I did a self defense class and one lesson we were practicing disarming techniques and told to pin our partner, who was armed with a red sharpie, while both of us wore white t shirts. Fucking EVERYONE got covered in red ink even the instructor. Then we each got handed a sharpie and were told to try and disarm the other guy. Even more sharpie ink. The moral of the story was: if someone pulls a knife on you, run the fuck away unless it's not possible.
>>64247022Its hard for you to admit when you are wrong. That is a bad trait. The biceps can be completely severed and the arm can still bend. The pectoral can be severed completely at the cuff or rib inserts and you can still perform a fly or pushing movement. The knife that got me was very sharp. The one that followed was even sharper and double edged. I was not "instantly crippled". It was hot. I barely knew it happened in that adrenaline filled moment. You do not have the slightest clue what you are talking about. What goes around comes around kid. But tenfold. Be careful what you do in your youth.
>>64247029>>tendons and ligaments Your body does not operate on single muscles or even single groups to move a joint. You need a fucking anatomy lesson holy shit you are retarded.
>>64247060>>64247069how you gonna hold and handle a knife well if you have several tendons and ligaments in your hand cut? you can't do it very well at all, dumb fuck.
I regularly spar with bowie knives (the cold steel trainer ones) 95 percent of the time it's a mutual kill. You slash him in the face but you can't stop the momentum driving the knife into your chest. That's why I wouldn't recommend knife fighting. If you want a real historical account look up the sandbar fight. Not clean. That being said I enjoy the stick fighting aspects of kali.
>>64247344>>you will be instantly crippled>>your movement and grip will not be 100%Am i slashing my own tendons? Do I for some reason only have one hand and no legs or feet? Do you not understand how a life or death fight works? For the record you have about 6 muscles that control and contribute to wrist movement alone. You have 30 or more in the palm and fingers for grip. Over 20 that control the arm. The tendons have insertions all the way around the joint. In short, you are fucking retarded. Very retarded. Like the kind of retarded thats hard to wrap your head around. Like, seriously fucking retarded. You took all that time trying to think of a scenario that would support your opinion and you came up with that?All the way retarded.
>>64244964>there is no way to effectively defend yourself from a knife-wielder if you are unarmed, right?run away>>64245045>Sword wounds are way worse then gunshot wounds.true>>64245167>Swords are easier to not get killed with. With knivesyou really are dumb declicate looking small swords are were actually needle sharp and could run through a torso easily.
>>64247391>>95% of the time its a mutual killDescribe how you come to that conclusion? Considering people come into the ER daily with multiple stab wounds in areas that a training environment would call the "kill zone", I highly doubt it. Even cuts to arteries that you may consider "fatal" are not if the bleeding is stopped. Im reminded of Kentucky ballistics taking one to the neck and chest in what in this discussion people would call fatal. Humans are far more resilient than these types of conversations usually allow for.
>>64244964>there is no way to effectively defend yourself from a knife-wielder if you are unarmed, right?No. Learn how to box and wrestle. Then get a trainer and take some classes which emphasize force on force testing. If you can control the hands you're less likely to get cut. This doesn't mean you're not getting cut but if you get into any fight there isn't a guarantee you're coming out unscathed. I'd rather get stitches in the hospital than die.
>>64244964>Knife fighting arts, like kali, and knife self-defense is all bullshit right?Blade martial arts aren't bullshit in a knife vs knife context but getting into a 1v1 straight up no surprises blade duel in the modern day is a truly absurdly rare occurrence>there is no way to effectively defend yourself from a knife-wielder if you are unarmed, right?Yeah, the meme 'disarm an attacker' shit does not work outside of an extremely choreographed setting
>>64247509>>blade martial arts aren't bullshitUh, the Phillipino ones are. Its just little brown faggots slashing and stabbing as fast as they can. Its jail level shiv fighting. These clowns get bodied all over the world when they try that shit against non ladyboys. That entire island is pedophiles and inbred retards.
>>64246933One of my coworkers stabbed himself accidentally and instantly couldn't move his fingers. You are the one who knows nothing.
With a lot of xp with martial arts(no bs type shit) muay thai, mma, grappling. I fear the knife. You can certainly train it. Most of the effective things to train is ambushing as this mitigates damage. Or you spar a lot. use wooden or rubber dummy blades with lipstick on them and white shirts. Its crazy how many swipes you can get with this. Sparring a lot is key. But a knife fight is something you do not want to be in. If you see what a truly sharp blade/stab can do it's crazy.
>>64244964Kali/FMA were originally meant for knives the size of short swords but then Filipinx migrants and Americans started modifying them for their tacticool spyderco knives.
>>64247629Your coworker like you was an associate at a grocery store and a massive pussy. Just stop already, its fucking embarrassing at this point. He dropped a knife in the meat department and caught it by the blade. He severed a couple finger tendons. He wrapped it tightly and went to triage. That doesn't mean he was instantly crippled faggot. It means he is a pussy. One of us got his hand hacked into by a machete. Did not go well for the guy with the machete. My buddy is missing a couple fingers now. YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT YOU AREN'T EVEN A BUTCHER YOU WORK IN THE MEAT DEPARTMENT OF A GROCERY STORE. You have an entry level unskilled job. Go get some experience then come back. Like a delayed action boomerang kid. Its gonna get when you aren't expecting it.
>>64244964Knife fighting is not bullshit. There is a little known story about a former Army captain turned miner in the 1800s, ambushed alongside his two companions. His two companions were killed near instantly in the opening volley, leaving him to deal with over a dozen attackers. He killed many with a pair of pistols but both sides ran out of ammo and turned to melee. He slew three armed men with a Bowie knife, one of which was armed with a saber. The rest fled. The whole engagement was witnessed by another group of miners on a nearby hill and recorded in the local news shortly after.
>>64247529NTA, but Kali Eskrima isn't worthless; its combination of grappling and striking is somewhat interesting. The problem comes from the fact that it was invented to fight in jungle and swamp; put their fighters on a concrete floor, and they'll all suck.>>64247742>Kali/FMA were originally meant for knives the size of short swords but then Filipinx migrants and Americans started modifying themAre Americans just constantly on your mind, thirdie? Places like West Sumatra, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar have been using karambit knives since before the US existed. We had nothing to do with your country's martial arts slowly degrading; if anything, the Spaniards who colonized the Philippines helped preserve what little of the culture was left so you should be thanking the west for helping preserve your history.
>>64245027>>64245088>>64245167>>64245776>one dies on the ground, the other in the ambulance>With knives, if one guy wants to make sure you both die, he can do it 100% of the time, doesn't matter how skilled you are.Dumb meme. It was fine to drive home the idea that knife fights are dangerous and you shouldn't get into one if you can help it, but people take it way too literally now. Skill and training are as relevant to knife fighting as they are all other forms of fighting, even if the margin for error is slimmer. There are many webms of knife fights where one guy comes out practically scratch-free.
>>64247902Americans are the biggest practicioners of FMA outside of the Philippines and its not so much an issue of degradation but fags using short weapons for moves that require longer blades. Which is a big problem with all this "modern escrima" crap. >the rest of your post. I have 0 idea about what the fuck you're trying to say, but much of FMA isn't ancient Asian kung fu, its a product of Spanish colonial rule in the first place. Its a mongrel combo of European Infantry fencing and whatever native fighting styles existed in the Philippines. Its not "ancient" at all. It just emerged around the 1700s-1800s from the native cuadrilleros (auxiliaries) that made up most of the military forces in the Philippine colony getting drilled in fencing with hangers n shit and modifying it with native styles & native weapons to reflect the reality of combat in colonial Philippines: tiny skirmishes in the jungle where your average Native militiaman had a bolo instead of a hanger grappling with some rebel or muslim raider.Its why unlike most Asian martial arts, FMA Escrima is taught in drills instead of forms, as thats how native militia were taught by drill sergeants and manuals and thats how they ended up teaching it to everyone else. Again the issue isnt preserving ancient Asian bs, but using short weapons for a fighting style that requires something a bit longer. But go ahead, feel free getting shanked by a kitchen knife i guess.
>>64247426i wasnt the anon saying youd be instantly crippled.i said your grip will be severely compromised and not be 100% in that hand you fucking faggot. the only retard here is you. youre not a vet; youre lying on 4chan and its hilarious to imagine your BP and breath getting taxed from typing that gay wall of cringe.the only time you handle knifes if to spread PB on your dogs asshole before you lick it. get absently fucking you big dumb bitch.
>>64247055Yeah i read an article like that 20 years ago.
>>64248212>Americans are the biggest practicioners of FMA outside of the PhilippinesIt's almost as if my country is full of brown people.>I have 0 idea about what the fuck you're trying to sayI can tell, you see...>ancient Asian kung fu>Its not "ancient" at all.I never said it was ancient. Unlike you, I know when the antiquity period ended.>around the 1700s-1800sYou can't even get your facts right; Kali predated the Spanish arrival in 1521. They were practicing with swords, and when the Spanish arrived and banned swords, they started using the long sticks to practice sword techniques. Get it through your thick skull that when the Spanish arrived, they already had a culture of organized methods of warfare, metallurgical technology, and sophisticated blade culture, which they probably used against their Asian neighbors.>using short weapons for a fighting style that requires something a bit longer.I never claimed otherwise; what I did point out in my original comment was that that was never America's fault, you victim-mentality thirdie.
>>64244997This knives are fucking brutal. The goal offensively or defensively is to not die.
>>64248378>Kali predated the Spanish arrival in 1521.This is Philippine nationalist BS. All Spaniards said that the natives practiced "fencing." But even the oldest Surviving FMA styles go only as far back as the 1700s.Sure there was native martial arts practiced way before the Spaniards arrived here but FMA as practiced today is a product of the Spanish colonial period.Hell if we're more honest I can say it only became a thing in the early 1900s.
>>64244964Not really but nobody is walking around with 12inch roundel daggers or 8 inch bowie knives those styles are really meant for. Most times you're looking at a 5 inch blade or shorter which is barely enough to leave leathal wounds.From my limited experience with some HEMA shit, bashing by buddies with wooden blades we made from scrap, and some army combatives hand to hand shit is 90% comprised of trying to bury your blade in his neck or heart as quickly as possible because if you take it slow you're going to get cut and stabbed and then you're fucked. Hell half the time you basically want to throw yourself at the guy because they'll be a little off put from you doing something so reckless and you can make that fatal strike before you start grappling and things get risky
>>64244964>there is no way to effectively defend yourself from a knife-wielder if you are unarmed, right?Maybe not for (you), but I've been called to an attempted mugging where some nigger tried to stab an unarmed tourist and got seoi nage-ed into the curb for it. Nigger died on impact and the old guy didn't get a scratch on him.Obviously the guy had luck and skill on his side but it's not impossible.
>>64244997Tell me if im stupid but my thought process is if I too have a knife and have to fight try to cut their hand or fingers so they can't hold a knife any more.
>>64244964Here is how you win a knife fight, you stab the other guy as much as you can before HIS stabbing causes you too much blood loss. Last one to die is the winner.
>>64249761Ahhh, a DPS race
>>64244964Just have longer arms bro
>>64248525> All Spaniards said that the natives practiced "fencing." Was that because they didn't have a name for it to be called yet?I only know it used to be called "Kalis". Unless I'm wrong.
>>64249739That's "shoot the gun out of their hands" stupid. While you're trying to cut their fingers they'll be stabbing you in the neck.
What if my knife is way bigger than his? Like five feet long.
>>64252300 ok so in this scenario you are standing still, got it.
>>64252324necks are way bigger than fingersyou're basically going out of your way to target a small non-vital area when there's a ton of prominent vital ones
>>64248297>>if you get stabbed in the hand its paralyzed guyNo, shut up and finish you dinner dummy.>>64248525>>Phillipino They have the intelligence of children. They knife fight is prison shiv level. They fight with sticks like they are tard slapping. >>muh Phillipino We get it. You are a white gay pedophile who went to the Philippines to fuck ladyboys. You got caught by your beard wife's family and had to get another beard before you came home. Now you have the square root of nine brown children in a two bedroom apartment.
>>64251394Kalis or pangangalis is what it is called in Tagalog, because the Kris sword is called Kalis in Northern Luzon.Frankly the only FMA that has little western influence is Moro muslim Silat but it seems to be influenced by Malaysian Silat which is even more modern.
>>64252518Modern Kalis is a combination of Precolonial Filipino martial arts influenced by their Asian neighbors, and European especially Spanish fencing. That's why the Filipino Esckima and French Escrime, have the same rootword. Also, Eskrima was the martial arts used in the movies of "Dune".
>>64252821Wrong spellingI meant *Eskrima
>>64252334 if someone is gonna cut you, they will move their hand towards you. cut at the hand while moving your body away. simple concept.CAPTCHA 2GAYP
>>64249739>>64253100Unless you can take out more than half of the fingers in a single strike, they'll be able to retaliate. Hence why multiple people have mentioned that going for limb strikes will get you stabbed in the neck.I'm going to post a video about a dork who analyzed 215 knife fights, and you'll see how pretty much everyone who beat the knife fighter received cuts in the limbs/extremities but kept fighting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgATYyAElMM
>>64248129>Replies to a post saying "swords are easier to not get killed with" with a webm of a guy with a knife killing a guy with a sword
>>64253253let me split it down easier for you... providing you have space in this "knife fight" to move, the goal is to maintain largo mano range wherein the only part of your body in range at any time is your elbow to hand. if the attacker is swinging at your neck, you move you neck and body away while slashing at his hand/wrist. he of course will swing again, so you again move back keeping your vitals away from the blade but staying within range to damage his weapon hand. if we are talking about about something completely different as in an assassination attempt or being jumped, then that is quite different. but it seems the theme ITT is a "knife fight." The majority of untrained and even some trained people will fixate on "kill shots" which puts them in at much risk as their knife-wielding opponent. the goal and idea is to maintain distance to injury the weapon hand and keep the blood in your neck. this is an extremely defensive way to deal with a knife wielding attacker, which is ideal for civilians and non-combatants. dying minutes after "they" die is just gay.thanks for that link, i'll check it out!
>>64248129how the fuck did the nog with the big ass blade cut himself? I saw this video a couple of times, but I still can't pinpoint when he split his wrist open (I think)
>>64244964Historically knives are incredibly popular self-defense implements and that would not be the case if they were ineffectual or reliably got the user killed.
>>64253461>let me split it down easier for youYou don't need to "split it down" for me; you made your fantasies quite clear while talking to the other two guys. All I can suggest after you watch the video I sent you is to find a sparring partner to practice this "elite strategy" with; that way you won't end up like in this gif >>64248129.
>>64253640neither of these guys are executing the strategy i suggested- they rushed each other which is fucking dumb- they both are trying to stab each other in the neck... thats what happen when you dont train. this could easily have ended in mutual destruction. helmet dude got lucky and machete man fucked up big time by not utilizing his longer reaching weapon. i get it though... people want to believe what they wanna believe. Hands on time will teach you differently though."fantasies...." heh, reminds of that quote about how "future technologies will appear as magic" or whatever. get off you couch and go practice. youtube videos are great, as is hands on exploration.
>>64253493A lot of it would have come about by the fact everyone carried some kind of knife, maybe it was for cutting plants or culinary utility, something your had for eating, working on the farm or just general woodworking, agriculture and sharpening things. So it made sense that if you didn't have a sturdy bonking stick, part of the society that wasn't allowed battlefield type weapons or for social reasons, you just had a knife on you at a dinner party- some cunt is getting shanked if they fuck around.Plus for the vast majority of civilization, you were your own personal security first, there was no cops, guards or probably anyone else going to help you, so you used what you more than likely just had and handled it
>>64254572>get off you couch and go practice... as is hands on exploration.>"Imma repeart the same thing he said to me back to him and he won't think that I'm talking out of my ass."Sure, bud, you've definitely practiced the crap you're talking about so many times. LOLAs for everyone else, I found where this guy learned the cringe technique: scam-filled McDojos teaching "Filipino Martial Arts." He's as prepared as these women who think knife fights happen in slow motion; https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fdCEy45nkjI
>>64255785my brother in christ, for the last 15 years or so i've trained these things under pressure. I've not been in a live knife fight, but have practiced these techniques, concepts and strategies both with intense pressure from skilled people ive got to train with for years and MORE IMPORTANTLY new people who are using the knife in the most basic way and who dont know or respect me who are needing to see if its BS or not so of course they will try to break and fuck with what im doing but because ive put time and energy into it i'm able to execute my strategy. the end goal is their being cut multiple times up and down their weapon arm and sometimes a few torso stabs from me while my weapon hand and vitals are untouched. Can it fail, sure, but i count that as a fault of the practitioner and their footwork skills and distance management. the issue with these strategies/techniques is chances are you or i wont be knife-out at the onset, which breaks any knife fighting system.it doesnt bother me that some scrub on 4chan doesnt believe me, i'm confident i'm more prepared than you but let us know your experience. maybe youre a Master, idk.people who know will know while the ignorant remain gay.
>>64252300>That's "shoot the gun out of their hands" stupid. While you're trying to cut their fingers they'll be stabbing you in the neck.You're retarded.The only "winnable" knife fight is essentially a fencing strategy. You wait for a swing, step back, let the opponent swing and you give a quick flick to your opponent's weapon arm. You'll either get the hand or forearm.This obviously has no applicability if you get rushed and prison shanked.What you're saying is like arguing that in boxing there's so such thing as strategy or counter-punch, you'll get punched in the face.
>>64255939>What you're saying is like arguing that in boxing there's so such thing as strategy or counter-punch, you'll get punched in the face.that is more or less how dirty boxing from the clinch works
>>64245776A sword can defend agains a knife, a knife can't defend against a sword
>>64255881If I understand your self proclaimed expert opinion you think you are neo from the matrix. Listen dumb ass. You do not hang back in a blade fight trying to edge parry a knife hand as it comes into range. I get it. Your fat ass bought some rattan sticks while you were gobbling ladyboy dick and now think you are a grandmaster. But alas, no. A fight you win is very very quick. You strike first, you strike hard, and you strike again and again until they run or drop. Winners do anyway. The lower usual hangs back and tries some poser shit and dies.
>>64247055>The moral of the story was: if someone pulls a knife on you, run the fuck away unless it's not possible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM45bTN4Vnc
