>you're us made vss reproduction, sir
>VSS without any of the soulThose aren't even stamped, are they.This is like that retarded PSA StG project. What part of the market are you trying to appeal by making a niche gun that few people will buy but not making it accurately enough to appeal to the people who actually care about the gun?
>>64247826Are those cast but supposed to look like they're stamped? That's wild, man.
>>64247843I enjoy bastard guns
>>64247869For a second I thought they were 3D printed.
>>64247843I guess they expect normies to say "Whoah dude a silenced AK? Hell yeah ill fill out all the federal paper work and wait a month to buy this $4000 gun that has tons of extra restrictions like having to notify the gov if I take it to the next state over
>>64247843>>64247869The original dogshit one he posted was definitely 3d printed. These ones might be cast or better quality 3d print, I'd need a closer look to tell.
>>64247913The texture and sharp corners make it pretty clear that it has to be 3d printed. It's also pretty telltale that there's a darkened ridge right where the dust cover button would finish printing.
>>64247889>>64247913what if they were...metal 3d printed? and then spraypainted to appear plastic
I don't get it, how is literal 80 year old technology so hard to reproduce?
>>64247923Investment casting can do sharp corners and the texture would depend on how they made the investment, but I think you're right.>>64247924They don't look plastic at all. They're definitely metal.
>>64247931It's not necessarily hard, just expensive. Stamping is a high buy in cost, low serial cost endeavor. It costs a ton for all of the machines and toolding, and it isn't always without trial and error either. You might make the tooling and run a few hundred samples only to find the tools won't work for one reason or another and you have ro start over
>>64247937This. AKs aren't cheap because they're easy to make, but because the soviets spent the moolah on the development of the tooling and then shipped those tools all over the world.
>>64247931Stamping is only cost effective in runs of tens of thousands or more, and he probably only counts in selling a few dozen or maybe a few hundred of these. If it was an accurate reproduction it could maybe make it to a few thousand sales over a decade, but it still wouldn't sell enough to break even.
>>64247951>>64247937Why doesn't he contract with someone already making AKs though?
>>64247970VSS receiver doesn't have a lot in common with the AK and the major development cost is designing and manufacturing the dies themselves.A single die can easily be $10K, which is a hell of a cost to eat if it doesn't end up producing the part you need, or if its off by a certain measurement after forming.
>>64247907suppressors don't need that ATF form>>64247924metal 3D prints usually have a rough sand-cast texture like that. It's possible they're printed since the retard in charge wouldn't invest in casting or stamping, but would still spend the money for printing
>>64247937>It's not necessarily hard, just expensiveEven if you throw a blank check at a sheet metal fabricator, they won't get you a VSS dust cover. That's some specialized die + deep draw stuff.
>>64248030I know guys who could make a one-off that looks exactly like the original stamping, it'll just cost you more than the value of the completed gun.
>>64247991>A single die can easily be $10K, which is a hell of a cost to eat if it doesn't end up producing the part you need, or if its off by a certain measurement after forming.you can weld and remachine metalworking tools like these. They're not a complete loss if they need to be adjusted.
>>64247970Pretty sure the VSS is closer to an SVD than an AK and no one is making accurate reproductions of those, either.
>>64247924>>64247889they appear to be printed, you can see the lines printing for this part is fine, it doesn't see any real stress anyhow as it is merely a dust cover, but it is really expensive for what it is. for an initial run though it wouldn't be terrible
I think what everyone is forgetting is that the guy doing this project is already known as a drug abusing blow hard with no real talent. Ian rightfully stated his skepticism with this guy's ability to actually follow through. We will not see legit serial production and at best will be gifted with hand crafted individual examples that will fall well short of a real VSS.
>>64247937>mill out a solid block shaped like the dust cover on the outside>call up your local hydraulic press channel>bring sheet metal and stamp out couple dozen dust covers>???>profit!
>>64248153The VSS guy thought it was going to be that easy, too.
>>64248153You can't mill a steel block down to the thickness of a VSS dust cover.. there's a reason why stamped receivers are thinner than milled receivers.
>>64248051>I know guys who could make a one-off that looks exactly like the original stamping>that will look likeCool, will it be the correct gauge and hardness of steel, deep drawn, with the proper reinforcement ribs, and dimensionally accurate?Don't be obtuse.
>>64248160You can, it would just be incredibly wasteful. But he's not talking about making billet dust covers, he's talking about making a billet stamping die.
>>64248160He's not talking about hogging out steel into the shape of the dust cover from billet, he's talking about making a die.Dumb fuck.
>>64248169>>64248171You're right I misread what >>64248153 because I thought it was common sense that its not as simple as milling out a steel block to the exact inverse of the shape of the part you want.
>>64247923Nigger they are 100% cast. Are you retarded? You can see the laughably bad voids where the "ribs" terminate because they didn't pack the sand to the same density as the two mold halves.
>>64248165Yes. It's easy to assume everyone is lazy hacks, but there are some truly transcendent armorsmiths out there who can finish a piece and then tell you exactly how thick each feature in it is without measuring. There is no shape a stamp can make that can't be made by hand with enough skill and time, the only problem is that there's not much demand for that skill anymore so the handful of masters that can do it can charge the world for it and you can either pay up or be happy with 3d printed bullshit like in the OP.
>>64248198Nice catch
>>64248198Can you walk us through the order of operations that causes that?
Wouldn't a cast/printed/whatever dust cover be heavy as fuck compared to a stamped one?
>>64248202>don't be obtuse>is obtuseThis is level of ackshually I haven't seen in a while. Sure you can make a perfect one off with $50k, a talented armorsmith, and 6 months. Whoop dee doo.You also missed the step where I asked if it was going to be deep drawn. An armorsmith isn't going to deep draw it.
>>64248177>I thought it was common sense that its not as simple as milling out a steel block to the exact inverse of the shape of the part you wantAnd yet you thought it wasn't common sense that milling out a giant piece of steel into a thin and obviously stamped and drawn piece is stupid?Fuck off.
>>64248237>I say it could be done but would cost most than the gun>Akshully, that would cost more than the gun!Okay, bro. You win.
>>64248251Again..it's not just a problem of cost.
>>64247826does it come with meth? stop shilling your stupid gun, faggot. ian already btfo you
>>64248263Apparently not because of your obsession with deep drawing, while I see absolutely nothing to suggest that the original was deep drawn rather than stamped.
>>64247970There's no parts interchangeable between a Kalashnikov and Vintorez, they function and are built differently.
>>64248007Wrong retard, the fee is just ended
>>64248566>the fee is just endedWhich is a pretty big deal. The enduring excuse has been that since NFA items are being taxed, it's not unconstitutional because it's ok to tax things, even things like weapons.If they are no longer going to tax some items in the NFA however, then taxation stops being a valid excuse for their inclusion, meaning that this can be challenged. Once they are detaxed, there's a big opportunity to remove shorties and mufflers from the NFA entirely, making them just become regulated like normal rifles and shotguns.tl;dr this is a really good opportunity for the future
>>64248566Suppressors have no requirement for notifying the ATF if being taken out of state unlike SBRs, SBSs, MGs etc
>>64248667They are no longer going to tax SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, and Silencers, which is why them being in the NFA at all can be challenged. Again, if they aren't even taxed, then there's no legitimate excuse left.Once taken off the NFA, Silencers will basically end up just being regulated like a firearm, fill out a 4473 when buying from an FFL, and requiring an FFL to manufacture on a commercial basis, but you could also make your own for personal use.80% Silencer kits will probably become a thing. By that, I mean that people will be able to sell "solvent traps" without the bullshit obfuscation (if they get their FFL that is), and also that there will be nicer and better kits which will turn out generally better results.You will also be able to just buy a short carbine with an integrated silencer like it's a rifle. It can have a real stock without the brace shit, and it can have a VFG. We will also see holster stocks become a thing again.A company like FNH could make a variant of their new Hi-Power with a slotted grip, which you could get a somewhat old fashioned holster stock for, a wooden one, and a plastic one in a color of your choice to match the plastic grips you have.
>>64248566>>64248689You're fucking retarded. No one is talking about the $200 tax stamp.
>>64248689>Once taken off the NFA, Silencers will basically end up just being regulated like a firearmIt's only because of the NFA that silencers are considered firearms unto themselves. If they were to be fully removed from the NFA there would be nothing in law defining them as firearms and then they'd just be accessories like an optic.
>>64247933He said 3D printed metal. So either filament (unlikely) or SLS (more likely).
>>64248734I just filled in on the question of the taxes themselves. I should probably have read the reply chain more.>>64248754Potentially, but I think the the compromise approach will be that they are regulated like a non-NFA firearm, so they can say "See? You still have to fill out a background check!"
>>64248642>>64248667>>64248734Samefagging this hard because you don't know the NFA
>>64248781I'm not him, I'm just the idiot replying to the coming change where some NFA items won't be taxed anymore, but where I didn't read the whole reply chain first.
>>64248198NTA but at the base of the ribs could that maybe be the metal "sucking in" as it cools? I know that can happen on the top but never seen it anywhere but exposed top. Hard to explain but IIRC if your molds are cool or your metal is cool the heat can be sucked out of the molten metal and cause tons of defects including that weird puckering especially if you don't keep pouring once you think you're full.>>64247907>>64248566Not sure if the Vintorez (this gun in specific) is a 2 stamp but silencers don't need to be notified for out of state travel. SBRs do. Silencer...shop or central, I forget, has a page about that on their site.
>>64248153>what is springback?You already fucked up the first die.You're actually going to calculate this shit properly on the second die or are you just gonna try to wing it by trial and error?
>>64248211He hasn't posted production pics so just a guess, but when you make a sand mold you use solid negatives of the object's inside and outside surface and press them into sand. You have to maintain what's called a draft angle so that you can physically extract the solid mold from the sand mold you're pressing without disrupting the sand. The top cover already has a built in draft angle but since the part has a negative section there where the rib does not extend all the way to the lip, they will have to hand-pack additional sand into that area and undo that draft relief for each rib. That would have to be done after the initial outer (bottom half) has been pressed, with a secondary mold rather than purely by hand because with this crack head's history if it was shaped by hand it would look like a child's sand castle with fingerprints all around it.Anyway, that secondary process is likely to blame for that weird void/wobbly area under the ribs. That aberration would absolutely not occur with a 3d print.
>>64247907>wait a monthMy last two MG transfers were 3 days each.
