I know that WW2 German battleships are kind of overrated (I still like the Scharnhorst though), but how are their cruisers?
>>64265224>Prince EugeneFix you fucking game you faggotty ass frog fucks
>>64265224All german surface vessels were outdated but default.Germany had a decade and a half of pause on construction they Lost crutial shipbuliding skills on top of being left behind all other major naval powers in terms of technology.They were building ships based on old ww 1 designs with a few tweaks. They would never be on the Level of US,British and French surface vessels.Just extract what I Said and you get your answers. Not bad just suboptimal in most ways
>>64265232That's a reasonable take, thank you.
>>64265232Didn't they also have some experience with Dutch designs due to some cooperation during interwar era as in German designers working for Dutch companies? I think the Dutch were in fact going to have their own Scharnhorsts for example.
>>64265232>Germany had a decade and a half of pause on constructionThe Emden was built in 1921, the Königsberg class in 1926. Deutschland class work began in 1929. And that's stuff that was done in the open in accordance to the treaty of Versailles. Submarines had to be developed entirely under different premises.The main problem is Nazi megalomania getting tricked into vanity capital ships and overweight cruisers.
>>64265285The germans built 7 ships in 10 years, time the brits lauched 17 or so just counting crusiers.>The main problem is Nazi megalomania getting tricked into vanity capital ships and overweight cruisers100% but I dont blame them they had delusions admirals (Reader) wispering in their ear "yeah totaly Hitler 20 more 350000 ton battleships Will win us the war"
>>64265232US and British yesFrance no, they were on par. French shipbuilding industry was in deep crisis in the interwar period, simply consneeder that the Richelieus were just upscaled Dunkerques built to try and match the Littorios and Bismarcks ASAP
The downside of building large ships was that they aroused the wariness of neighboring countries.This worked to Germany's disadvantage in both world wars.
>>64265232>All german surface vessels were outdated but defaultAnd yet they had radar before the Nips or Italians did.
>>64265228>Fix you fucking game you faggotty ass frog fucksBased anglo
>>64265407Wasn't the reason for no radar quite retarded in both cases?Italians cause they didn't think anyone else would be able to have one that could fit in a ship and Nips were initially ahead of the game over everyone else but shut it down on factor of "this could be used by our mortal enemy, the army, shut it down!"
>two barrel turrets Tells you all you need to know. The Bismarck was just a WWI ship in lipstick. If she didn’t score a lucky hit on the Hood, nobody would care about German battleships.
>>64265432>three shafts/propeller screwsA little bit more of telltale. All other navies moved to four shaft propulsion for their capital ships.
>>64265224They were shit, desu. If we’re talking about heavy cruisers, the Hippers would have been perfectly fine (not great, not horrible, kinda midling) ships if they had been 13k to 15k tons instead of 19k. They were majorly overweight for what they brought to the table. And these were the good German heavy cruisers, with the Deutschland class being an awful attempt at building some kind of turbo-light battlecruiser that ended up underarmed, too slow, and underarmored for its role. On the good side, well, at least all of the German CAs were pretty good looking (even if Deutchlands were kinda ugly-cute), which is more than can be said about their light cruisers.
>>64265468>with the Deutschland class being an awful attempt at building some kind of turbo-light battlecruiser that ended up underarmed, too slow, and underarmored for its roleThe role of the Deutschland class was to revise the Versailles treaty and get Germany into the Washington naval treaty system.
What about Japanese cruisers?
>>64265432>two guns per turret = ww1Barking up the wrong tree.
>>64265678CAs: good shipsCLs: what were they thinking
The category of light cruisers had already been subsumed into the heavy cruiser category with the Brooklyn and Mogami.
>>64265224>but how are their cruisers?One of the annoying talking heads on YouTube (a bong one) said that their build quality in general was shit and required much strengthening in refitNot my area so I don't knowWhat i do know is that their fire control optics was top notch, their main guns were good, but their AA was suboptimalBismarck for example doesn't have much to show to advantage over the KGVs despite being, what, 8,000 tons fatter?>>64265323I suspect Raeder was either "shooting for the moon in order to land amongst the stars" or operating under the (more common than you think) belief that Plan Z once approved could not be cancelled or altered>>64265407>yet they had radar before the Nips or ItaliansItalians were poorNips were just clawing their way into the Industrial Age and copying the shit out of everyone, they barely had the time or capacity to r&d for themselves>>64265417>Nips were initially ahead of the game over everyone elseThey never were. Their domestic radar research facility was only established around the time Germany was installing Seetakt on Graf Spee.That's like... beginning to split atoms when the Americans are loading up Enola Gay>>64265678>What about Japanese cruisers?Their heavy cruisers were about par for the course, allowing for their excessive overweight. More top heavy than expected.They didn't have a proper light cruiser doctrine because of their lack of resources, their light cruisers were all WW1-type destroyer leadersTheir only WW2 CL the Agano(?) Class is comparable to British Arethusas of ten years prior
That being said I fucking love aviation cruisers and the Tone class
>>64265323Imagine if Wegener had been in charge.
>>64265678Semi-offtopic: the more I learn about the early years of the pacific war, the more I realize it was a terrifying time to be Australian/Dutch/British/American. Those cruisers put a lot of dudes into watery graves
>>64265889>Italians were poorI mean yes but also noItalians had a radar program prior to ww2 and they developed and installed their own incredibly fast after they got slapped.They literally snubbed the project because they abhored the idea of night fighting, their strategy was to only fight at day by dictating engagements via superior mobility (which ironically works, unless you let the enemy have complete air dominance *cough* Matapan *cough*)
>>64265678pretty
>>64265466Bongs used 3 screws for their modern carriers.
>>64265872wat
>>64265224Advanced but unreliable engineering plants.PE had an advanced sonar that the USA and UK gamed to keep away from Moscow postwar.
>>64266991https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/uss-prinz-eugen/
>>64265232Nazis weren't planning very hard for a big war, regardless of what you are told.The main reason their Navy was lacking was they'd been busy building vacation cruise ships for their workers, as well as cargo ships, including a new species of fast cargo, mostly to bring exotic fruit from Latin America to Europe.They'd also started building cargo ships with a system that would be used as basis for today's standard shipping containers. But it wasn't the first time that was suggested, but in USA and UK it was killed by Dock Worker's Unions.If you got two set of tracks that are about 4-5ft apart gauge, but you gonna have two sets of tracks, just make sure the two sets are also a regulated distance apart....THEN..... :)you can use both sets, or all 4 tracks, which are total about 4x as wide as your base gauge, to make a massive super train with true "like inside a nice house" size interior. (plus cargo of unheard of dimensions, who knows, maybe full sized "manufactured homes").Seems almost obvious. Doesn't have to be for every mountain pass or tunnel, just the big routes.Yes, big train more efficient if fully loaded, just like bigger ship.
>>64266974They probably saw them as cruisers and didn't consider them as capital ships when building them, until their brand new BB (and an older BC) got spanked by air at Malaya.
>>64266753Agreed.
>>64265232The german surface fleet was a waste of resources that should have gone into uboats desu
>>64267172This post has big Wehraboomer energy.
>>64267172Now I see why indians simp for nazis so much. They want to be crushed by these things.
>>64269585Debunked myth
>>64265363France picked up real quick, Algérie was one of the best non-cheating treaty cruisers made that's not American.>>64266981He probably meant the only difference between CL and CA is the gun caliber in the mentioned classes, Brooklyn is New Orleans but light, Mogami is light or heavy depending on the turret mounted.
