If you're a police agency or military force, and you need a lot of firepower in a compact package, is there really anything to choose over an MP5?
>>64267341A compact intermediate caliber rifle.With modern polymers we are talking about the same weight, 5.56mm/300blk/7.62x39 recoil is not too bad, far flatter trajectory and accuracy at ~50-200m. They can penetrate kevlar and shatter after hitting one thing as well.
If those are the only restrictions, you're better off with a p90.
>>64267341>police agencydepend on the budget and place, a PCC in 9mm/45acp/40s&w/10mm is more than enough, easy to carry and place in the patrol car.>militaryany SBR or bullpup rifle that is considered that fit your criteria and pass all required test, SF can just get whatever they desire as long it pass the requiered test
>>64267341What if police had glock 18's with semi and full auto, and had roni kits on standby with a 33 round mag and a spare?
>>64267375That would be retarded
>>64267341MP5/45 in .45 Super.>captcha DRHK4W
>>64267470I didn't know this existed 10 seconds ago but now I want it more than anything I've ever wanted.
>>64267375Because it's basically an accessory, and not a very good one in quality. Every Glock to PCC conversion always ends up being a shitty, why? It always comes down to the barrel wabbling inside of the handguard.
>>6426734111.5 PSA AR, not even joking
>>64267375Unless you're expecting theft from the place where it's on standby, might as well have a whole SMG there instead of needing to assemble it from your pistol under pressure. Especially if you want your pistol to have accessories that interfere with such assembled kits.
>>64267371PCCs are a joke. Not much more power than a pistol and with dots on pistols PCCs are less relevant. Rifles all the way.
>>64267353"sir please stop shooting me with that thing" - said by no one shot by an mp5
>>64267626this, if I wanted to hit farther with 9mm I'll carry one of those fuckheug CZ shadows with an optic
>>64267341I'd take a UMP in .45 acp, has a little more smack than the 9mm.
>>64267349>shatter after hitting one thing as wellThis is what most people miss with PCCs and SMGs. 9mm is (relatively) a stable, heavy ball of lead flying through the air, and holds its momentum fairly well through structures. 5.56 is more like a dart, and rapidly destabilizes after hitting a wall or other target. When you’re possibly working with people behind your target or in the same house, minimizing collateral damage plays a very important role.
>>64267341I'd go for integrally suppressed AUGs, they still make the 300blk conversion for them, right?
>>64267776Weird, I've always heard the opposite that 5.56 will overpenetrate and go through your walls and 9mm will stop in your target. Though thinking about it now I presume that it has more to do with being shot out of a rifle or a pistol
>>64267836No, it's just fuddlore. Even setting aside all the practical testing that shows that rifle rounds will fragment quickly upon collision with even a light barrier like drywall which leaves you with tumbling fragments that quickly lose all velocity as well as the reduced mass, while pistol rounds just pass through without any real noticeable effects, you this should be very apparent from a basic physics point of view.
>>64267836Mass and aerodynamics are the key, velocity doesn’t play as much into it. It’s more the shape. Rounder and fatter calibers will penetrate the target less, but retain their energy better if they overpenetrate, while thinner and longer bullets will penetrate the target more but rapidly destabilize after any sort of collision.
>>64267341The answer is, and always will be 5.7>t.200 IQ
>>64267688Stupid argument. What makes MP5s good is full auto. You wont have that. 50 yard hits are doable with a pistol and likely will hit the same ballistics. Modern defense ammo is built around the 4" barrel of a glock 19. Unless its full auto, inside mostly if not only, and not a front line weapon pistol caliber weapons aren't for frontline combat
>>64267741.45ACP isn't much stronger than 9mm go .40 if you want more power.
>>64267741These things have a lot of reciprocating mass.Haven't heard they handle too well compared to an MP5 but haven't tried either to find out.
>>64267836Here's some testing about this, if you are curious.https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth.278/https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth.284/https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/TL;DR anything capable of reliably penetrating into a human's vitals is going through several interior walls before stopping. Even a .22 will punch through at least a couple of walls. See pic rel, where 5.56mm fired through 12 layers of drywall was tumbling or breaking up by the last layer, while pistol calibers were just sailing through, but all of them likely retained enough velocity to endanger someone's life after penetrating the equivalent of 6 interior walls.
>>64267341.300blk carbines, which is why all the euro cops went to them, and the point of .300 in the first place.
>>64267353The round doesn't pass basic FBI penetration standards. Give me a P90 in 10mm.
>>64267531>t.eeeeeeeeeeeeee>>64268928this, 9mm PCCs are great on a low budget but if you're spending MP5 money might as well go with 300 since it's a direct upgrade
Mp5 in 40 for regular operations, mp5 type gun in 5.7 for active shooters. Or just give everyone off the shelf ARs because thats cheaper.
Has there ever actually been any recorded instances of "over penetration"? Because there's sure has been a bunch of cases where dudes wearing body armor or hooked up drugs are able to withstand 9mm.
>>64269101Only instance I know of was a police shooting with an AR that overpenned a retail changing room wall and struck a girl.
>>64267531You fucking ape... Not that an 11.5 at is a bad idea but still.
>>6426734145/70 mares leg, armor be damned it will stop the target
>>64267531this but in tree hunnid chimpout with a can and subs so no eeeee
>9mm>a lot of firepower
I'm still on the fence of where to go with making a suppressed weapon. I was thinking of 300blk but the ar thread said I'd be better off making a ar9s
>>64269320Subsonic 300blk is just a heavy handgun round out of shorter barrels.
>>64269320You either want rifle performance too(at close range) so you pay the .300 blk tax or you don't need it so you go with 9mm. Shrimple as that.
>>64269340That's what they said over in the AR thread. Especially my head case for this is if someone breaks into the house I can kill them and not only my own hearing but also my wife and kids hearing intact. I've cracked off a 9mm in the kitchen out the back door and my ear rang for a week.Also have a larp fantasy of when the end times come using this for hunting up to and including white tail without letting everyone know where I am at.>>64269348Does subsonic 300blk have much ballistic advantage over a subsonic 9mm or even 45? Do they make 45 ARs? Now that I'm over 40 I'm really into 45 now
>>64267341>>64267353>Flux 365 Raider>P90 (suppressed)>14.5" AR-15 (preferably suppressed)Depending on engagement intensity/probability. You don't need anything other than these for close-in combat.
>>64269076>mp5 moneythat's it. if you could get em for the price of a 11.5 inch PSA AR15 the discussion would be simpler.
>>64267341>a lot of firepowerMP5 in 10mm
>>64268861What I take from that is that in an area like an apartment building or a hotel, there's a decent argument to be made for 5.56 in the context of reducing, not eliminating, but reducing risks of overpenetration. In that sort of environment you quickly encounter multiple layers of drywall air gapped by numerous individual rooms. In a home defense context in a single free standing residential property, I don't think you're likely to have too many angles of where the overpenetration would be significant less hazardous from 5.56 vs anything else.
>>64269354If you only want to shoot subsonic point blank then 9mm is fine. 300BO if you want a multirole gun that can be a usable fighting carbine.
>>64269389This would be subsonic only, in any other situation id be grabbing my 556 or 308 (or even my 30-06
>>64269408Then 147 grain 9mm will do you just fine.
>>64269436Can you recommend a ar9 upper and lower to go with? If I'm gonna go 9mm sub gun I'm just gonna build my own
>>64269487Whats your budget?
>>64269493Enough to get something good? How much can a receiver set be?
>>64268180>it's only good for the things you can't have!!!!1!!Yeah, 3 points of contact, capacity, barrel length, accessories, after market, legendary reliability, are all meaningless.
Just...get a sbr, like a 10.3/11.5 super duty. Don't be a weird contrarian retard.
>>64269101That time with your mom
>>64269518The reality is no one but sperg larpers have shit like that
>>64267371you just know this guy has never shot a .45 or .40 PCC and 8s basing his entire opinion on vibes
>>64269497You're gonna be dropping about the same price as an mp5 if you want a good AR9. Daniel Defense for example makes one and its almost 2k.
>>64269523>sperg larpersjust because 1k to you is a shitload of money doesnt mean it is to everyone
>>64269545You can get a PSA for way less, you simply exist in echo chambers, likely noshoots too so you don't know what is normal.
>>64267341The successor to the MP5, the HBSD:>lighter>same length>better ergos>more accurate>modern rails>more effective cartridge at all ranges>is gold
>>64269655Fo got da gol!
>>64267341
>>64267341Mp7 with a drum magazine?
>>64267470HOLY BASED
>>64269655MP5 wins in full auto.
>>64269354300blk and 9mm subsonics are going to have similar mass and velocity out of the barrel but due to the shape of the bullets 9mm is going to lose speed faster so 300 is better at range, plus 300blk can be equivalent to 7.62x39 with a mag change
>>64267470wtf
>>64269920>you NEED le trad full auto for da boogyou glow
>>64270126If the federal government collapses federal crimes dont exist.
>>64270130>he doesn't know
>>64270141You straight up not reading OPs?
>>64270142Did you? Why did you mention le boog? Are you an Indian "US civil war soon saar" poster?
>>64269655This
>>64267688That's kinda the point. LE doesn't actually want to kill most of the time. I mean, if you want to kill the fucker you can shoot him again. 50 rounds gives you options but it's good to be able to capture an enemy alive.
>>64267341>9mm firepowerLol. Lmao. Even. Just take a 357 like cops did for the past 100 years, there's a reason it was so popular.
>>64267341Obvius AK-47. Just MORE damage and accuracity.Look at CS players. They always buy rifle when they can.
>>64269101There was that time I was railing your mom when she was bent over a dumpster behind a 7/11 and I came so hard in her ass that she spat it out her mouth
>>64267341Mk18
There is only one answer.
>>64269707Ah, you want to kill the perp with the muzzle blast. Very based anon.
>>64269379>>64272824My niggers.
>>64269655>>64270253300 is the 10mm of AR platforms>Obnoxious fans>Incredibly niche use case>Nobody actually uses it
>>64267341The idea with that one was that you could aim and deliver precise shots, which is just completely out of touch with the reality of police shootouts.Just give them MAC10s.
>>64272933What are you talking about? It's in service fucking everywhere
>>64272955See, that's exactly how 10mm fags act>10mm is da most popular round in da wurl since one special forces group uses it!You don't own a 300 btw
>>64272955>one special forces groupYou mean all of them + basically the entirety of the euro cops? Get a grip anon.
>>64272933No it's worse than that because 10mm is the most popular choice for a bear defense handgun in grizzly country. Nobody actually shoots 300 since the retards who shill it are too poor to afford meme ammo kek
>>64272966>You don't own a 300 btwI have a .300 blogout SBR. Decided it made more sense than an MP5 or a 9mm PCC even though I want one eventually too.Cope
>>64274427May we see it?In b4 lame excuses not to.
>>64268180how can you even make that claim when you can go super safe with the mp5 now?
>>64270286there's also a reason those same departments issuing .357's issued them with .38 Special +P ammunition.
>>64274519>May we see it?Pls hold. You can see my horrific paint job.
>>64274910Nice anon, not nightmare fuel at all
>>64275034Also, fucking kek
>>64274910>Shoulder thing that goes upBro casually posting his collection of WMDs
>>64275034Lets just say the rapco 'mustard' was not what I expected once it dried LOL>>64275050I need it for my ultra high aimpoint mount :^)
>>64275050>>64275034Also if it wasnt clear from the horrendous color mismatch, that lower is used on my 12.5" 5.56 that is the green color like the stock and cheek riser
>>64267341Say what you will about snig. But a well sorted mpx is a better gun. MP5 is better with no modifications out of the box tho. It's basically idiot proof.
