Is this round worth having or is it just a meme that performs like 9mm?have the opportunity to pick up a cheap 357sigger, but Ive always thought it was kind of a silly round. should I reconsider?
>>64280344Does the Secret Service still use it?
>9mm Short DillonFor what purpose?
>>64280344me grand pappy swore by ithe shot over a dozen oil barrels to smithereens over the yearsit's a GOOD round
If you want it, get it. Not every gun needs to be practical.
I feel like 5.7 took a lot of the steam out of .357 Sig
>>64280344>Is this round worth havingYou know it is or you wouldn't be asking.
>>64280366i dont know im an arborist>>64280373I dont like buying impractical calibers
>>64280344just buy a 9mm to save money and its abundant. If you want to waste money on ammo just buy more expensive +p+ 9mm with fancy boolets
I bought a Glock 31 after hearing they were discontinuing models.
>>64280559is fear of missing out or an investment?
>>64280344In theory it's basically +P+ 9mm; the faster the bullet, the more reliably it expands. In terms of ballistics, it's not a bad round; I'm just not sure how easy it'll be to find ammo for it in the future.
>>64280574>I'm just not sure how easy it'll be to find ammo for it in the future.This. People have been saying this over 10 years ago and it's gotten worse since. It's been dying for years. Ironic considering it was one of the cartridges poised to replace the .40, but the cpr on it was prohibitive for most shooters that just wanted to blast a box or two every few weeks.
>>64280344It's a inferior 7.62x25mm copy that only exists because Americans can't buy double stacked Tokerovs.
>>64280665>Ironic considering it was one of the cartridges poised to replace the .40Only hardcore SIG fanboys thought that this would ever happen.
>>64280665.357 Sig and .45 GAP are the most DOA pistol cartridges in living memory. It's astounding that they still exist when everyone knows they're stupid meme cartridges that were never going anywhere and have been on life support ever since their introduction.
Can you neck down .40sw brass to make .357 cases?
>>64280344>[insert liberty defense ammo video]not posting it anymore
>>64280344>Buying a niche round>In 2025>This year.
>>64280344You're correct that it's a silly round. I wouldn't say that it performs like 9mm, it outperforms 9mm in every measure, except the price and magazine capacity. Something that you probably don't expect, if you ever end up using it defensively, you will not be wearing hearing protection and believe me, you will want it with this round. Something about it makes it so much louder than your average 9mm.
>>64280680>.357 Sig and .45 GAP are the most DOA pistol cartridges in living memory..30 Super Carry and .356 TSW were more DOA than both rounds you just mentioned. Some people still believe in the rounds you just mentioned, which is why companies persist in keeping it on life support.I'd also include all the necked-down rounds for the 1911, .400 CorBon, .40 Super, .38 Casull, etc. All of these were ballistically superior to the .45 ACP, but few people wanted to go through the trouble of converting their guns to take these rounds.
>>64280806.30 SC actually has a reason to hang around as a niche cartridge, and I've never even heard of .356 TSW so it's beyond DOA, into never existed territory.
>>64280402Husqvarna or Stihl anon?
>>64280344It's a very good round, but if you have no interest in reloading you probably won't shoot it much.If you do reload, you can have a 9x19 barrel slightly reamed for 356TSW and get more or less the same thing with an extra round in the mag.>>64280708You can for plinking but you don't want to push it, the cases are a smidge shorter than proper 10x25 ones.>>6428084330SC needs a stretched P32, it's completely fucking useless as things stand.
>>64280737>Something about itIt's muzzle pressure, obviously. You notice it over a few boxes, but if you're popping off one or two while shitting yourself you'll not notice the difference.
>>64280806The problem there is the 1911 though, it just can't take a beating like a Glock or HK can.
>>64280344>>64280928>>64280806Complete and utterly pointless heresy mode: Tokerov chambered in .357 Sig.
>>64280962If you've got a Tok you may as well do 9x23.
>>64280402I asked an arborist what he does, he said "Im a tree feller", Then I asked him how a feller can be a tree.
>>64280978Tree surgeons tend to be cool.
>>64280962>>64280970Take a Chinese double stack 9mm Tok clone that you smuggled from Canada then put in a 7.62x25mm barrel that was rebored and rechambered to .357 Sig. You now have a very sturdy .357 Sig. Just ignore the fact that you took a Tok that was already gimped with a inferior round (9mm) and altered it to take a slightly better round (.357 Sig) and pay no attention to the fact that you started with 7.62x25mm which is better than both of them.
>>64280988I live in the evergreen state bro, half my family are either fishers or loggers.This, is a rare trilium flower likely over 30 years old. It takes 15 years for its 3 leaves to grow. I love the woods.
>>64280995My dude 357 SIG exists to fit in a 9x19 length mag. You don't need it with a Tok, you have a longer mag.
>>64280996So anon, Stihl, Husqvarna or Echo?
>>64280978Insert the traditional stupid Irishman joke here.
>>64281001Cryobi like a real cheap jew. My $100 chainsaw still running strong after 5-ish summers of fairly good use.Also, always sevure youre firearm innawoods, you never know who may sieze upon it.
>>64281002You will never be white.
>>64281005Some of their stuff is very good. Also less likely to get your car window smashed or tools lifted. Security not speed is the name of the game. Thanks for the response.
>>64280999.357 only exists because of cultural prejudices and Americans inability to import a modernish pistol in 7.62x25mm. 7.62x25mm is an objectively better round.
>>64281013I want to upgrade to an electric one. Those 40W batteries are no joke and my weed eater has really impressed me. Seems easy to just pack a couple of batteries inatead of keeping it topped off with no ethanol gas. Plus better storage. What part of the world are you chopping wood?
>>64281008>Irish>white>pasta wogs>whiteYou don't know the joke do you, Jose X. O'Goldberg-Rodriguez III? You want to know why you don't know it? It's because you're a fucking IMMIGRANT from an alien culture LARPing as an American.
>>64281024Nice buzzwords you butt hurt fag, back to plebit with you.
>>64281023Filthy Euro bro. Yeah, the higher rated batteries are great for light, quick jobs. Recently picked up a 36 volt hedge trimmer, much better than the older 18 volt one I was using. Imagine it would be similar with the 40 models. Break out the gas saws still but electric is great for a lot of uses.
>>64280344>Is this round worth havingIf you own a Gen5 glock 23 then yeah, it's worth getting a conversion barrel for it.>>64280369>>9mm Short Dillon9x25dillon has no good projectile options which take full advantage of the speed. It's a competition cartridge made to old rules, all the defensive stuff is either loaded weak, or grenades.>>64280919>30SC needs a stretched P32Nah, it's barely lower recoiling than 9mm, a P32 in 30sc would be punishing to shoot.What 30sc needs is a FORT-230 or MP7-like gun which feeds from a double-stack stagger-feed 40-round magazine. It's a better subgun cartridge than 9mm.
>>64281041>a P32 in 30sc would be punishing to shootOkay, and? I don't expect to enjoy shooting a pocket gun.
>>64280370why did I laugh at this
>>64281030Go on, tell me a joke from the Old Country™. Something about serfdom and bestiality.
>>64280344It's more powerful than 9mm but .40 took off more. They perform about the same, a lot of handgun round bickering is just splitting hairs. I hear .357sig specifically has an issue with the bullets separating from the cases in the action.
>>64281046And S&W proved this year than a pocket gun can be pleasant to shoot, so...why wouldn't you just get a Bodyguard 2.0?btw I'm a fan of the 30sc conceptually, IMO it needs a properly designed gun to rescue it from dying out. Not another re-chambered 9mm, nor something nobody will ever want to shoot.
>>64281073>why wouldn't you just get a Bodyguard 2.0?Because it's .380, and also pretty fucking big for a pocket gun, and I wouldn't trust it in a pocket.If I was an arthritic manlet I would probably have one, but until the rheumatic shrink ray gets me I do not give a single fuck about pistol recoil.
>>64280344it worksit is one of the loudest calibers possible you can shoot out of an automaticammo is not cheap nor readily availableMy vote is no
>>64281071>I hear .357sig specifically has an issue with the bullets separating from the cases in the actionThat's not a thing.
>>64280567I had a Glock 31 a while back but I had to sell it and always missed it.
>>64280344>should I reconsider?Biggest issue with 357 nig is the projectiles are completely different than 9mm. If you load 9mm projectiles in then they'll frag like varmint rounds due to velocity. Now that support for this round is dead af that'd be my biggest worry going forward. Can't really take advantage of a round with no projectiles for it.
>>64281245>the projectiles are completely different than 9mmWell that's bullshit.
>>64281369No it isn't.
>>64281378Yes it is, I load 357 SIG. 124gr XTPs aren't going to run out any time soon. Sure, you put HSTs in there and it's going to be suboptimal but you'd have to be mentally retarded to do that.
>>64281388Thanks for proving my point.
>>64280344Which sig?High velocity pistol cartridges are neat. Depending on what gun you're looking at it may also be very easily converted to .40 S&W with only a barrel swap which is nice. 357 sig is pretty cool basically a mini 357 mag (or +P+ 9mm). Good energy and flat trajectory though it is loud as fuck as others have said, I wouldn't want it as a nightstand gun unless you're already deaf.Ammo is kind of expensive but decent availability in my experience. Around 40-50 CPR.
>>64281408Your point is shit and you don't even know why, because you've never tried it.
>>64280853husqvarna bb
>>64281421Okay boomer. Thanks for agreeing with me.
>>64281097380 is cool anon give it a try
>>64281475ChatGPT not giving you the answer? lmao you niggers.
>>64281414>what sig357. do you think I would have an ACTUAL sig anywhere near my person? fuck that.its a g31, around 300$. Not really a glock guy but the other two I have are nice enough to make me consider the 31. its a g4
>>64281485Shitting and pissing your pants. LMAO. Give me another (you).
>>64281490(me)
>>64281490I thought they'd banned lead paint. Life, uh, finds a way.
LMAO boomer melty expecting an argument at 7am despite agreeing with me.
>>64281041>has no good projectile optionsWhat about the Lehigh solid copper ones?
Personally I prefer the extra capacity on a edc so I'd carry a 9mm over it. Imo the two extra rounds are more important than the increased """stopping power""">>64280373This dude is right though. Not every gun has to be a edc shtf home defense special. It's completely okay to buy shit you think is neat rather than pretend everything you buy is a practical purchase. It's just a hobby, after all.
>>64281590>just a hobbyfilthy casual
>>64280344I got a .357 Sig barrel for one of my P229’s, and really like it. It shoots very smooth out of a chonky gun designed for it. I have around 900 rounds of Gold Dot and Lawman ammo I’ve gotten for between $20-25 a box/59 thanks to LE trade ammo.
>>64280843>.30 SC actually has a reason to hang around as a niche cartridgeThe market doesn't seem to think so, there are less .30 SC guns in consumer hands than there are .357 SIG guns.>I've never even heard of .356 TSWWell, .356 TSW is to 9mm what .30 SC is to .32 French Long. Grab a cartridge, make it way higher pressure, and now few guns can shoot it.>>64280919>30SC needs a stretched P32That's never going to happen; the .30 SC people made the mistake of making it a 52k PSI cartridge, so the pressure is too intense for the pocket pistols made in 9mm, even more so for the pocket pistols made in weaker calibers. They should have just designed the cartridge around 38k-41k and had it compete against .380 ACP rather than 9mm.>>64280928>The problem there is the 1911 though, it just can't take a beating like a Glock or HK can.All of those rounds meant to be better than .45 ACP can be chambered in any .45 ACP gun, convert your USP or Glock to it then. Oh wait, the cartridges still died and only handloaders care about them.>>64280995>>64281014Ever since the 7.62x25mm destroyed a bunch of weak CZ-52s, there's been this myth that 7.62x25mm is some sort of super round. It's not; the guns chambered in it were just bad quality, and that's why they were breaking. It's an alright cartridge, but you can stop worshipping the 85-grain projectiles. 7.62 Tok PPU gets around 560-580 foot-pounds of energy, while .357 SIG Underwood gets about the same out of a much more efficient cartridge design.>>64281073>btw I'm a fan of the 30sc conceptually, IMO it needs a properly designed gun to rescue it from dying out. Not another re-chambered 9mm, nor something nobody will ever want to shoot.It needs a Beretta 80x chambered in it.
>>64280344>we have .400 corbon, .45 necked to .40>we have .357 sig(and 9x25 dillon) .40 necked to .355>we have .25 naa .32 necked to .25Where is the .355 necked to .32?
>>64282405>Where is the .355 necked to .32?That is very similar to the 7.62 Tok the other guy is obsessed with.
>>64280344I think it has niche applications in hunting, for higher penetration than either 9mm or .40S&W. Might just as well go for a .357 revolver of course.
I remember back right after sandy vagina .357 was the only caliber in its class I could just go down to the store and buy off the shelf for quite a while. I think It's worth owning a .40 and a conversion barrel just for a bit of ammo flexibility.
>>64280680.357 sig at least got some contracts, I don't remember anyone adopting. 45 gap. Not saying it didn't happen, just that whatever it got was so irrelevant in the scheme of things it didn't matter. Off the top of my head you had secret service, the air marshals, and I want to say the coast guard that adopted .357, plus a decent scattering of state police agencies.
>>64282462.357 sig*
want
>>6428247845 gap got contracts. It was a NYC contract gun so technically the largest PD in the world adopted it. The idea was it mimicked 45 acp in a 9mm size grip.
>>64282415Or .30 luger :>) luv both
>>64282531I get what it was going for it just never really caught on. I'll admit, I didn't realize NYPD picked it up, that is far better than I was giving it credit for.
>>64282404>and now few guns can shoot itNope, any modern 9x19 barrel can take it just fine. You just need the chamber reamed to fit the brass.> the pressure is too intense for the pocket pistols made in 9mmThat's not how it works. Bolt thrust is what's important to the gun, pressure is only directly relevant to the brass. You absolutely could make a P32 take 30SC with a minimal redesign.
>>64282631I'm pretty sure Glock does nothing without a serious buyer involved.
>>64280380This
>>64280978>>64280402>>64281002Here's one that works for all three of you, since it involves a tree, and elephant, and a mick:There's a county fair, and one of the attractions is an elephant that guesses your age. The elephant was tethered in the shade of an oak, and a carnie was calling for customers to come teat the elephant's skill. First, a child approached. The elephant looked at her, then trumpeted five times. "He's right! I'm five!" She exclaimed. Next, an old man. The elephant looked him up and down, and stamped his foot 81 times. "He's right! I'm 81!" The old man exclaimed. Finally, and Irishman approached. The elephant looked him up and down, then turned so its backside was against the tree. The elephant broke wind very loudly, then defecated. "Oh Begora!" The Irishman exclaimed. "Truly tis a magic elephant! He knew I was farty-tree and a turd!"
>>64280996That's really neat. The woods where I grew up were full of white trillium. I had no idea it took that long to grow.
>>64283943lmao
>>64283776>Bolt thrust is what's important to the gunBolt thrust is caused by the rearward force that the propellant gases push on the bolt or breech when a projectile is fired. This force is formed by the pressure generated by the gases within the chamber.More pressure equals more bolt thrust.
>>64283943Lmayo
>be about 26yo>been in guns for at least 12 years but only an owner for about 4>"aw yiss it's a high-cap .357 magnum!">buy sig p239 .357 sig>take it to the range>massive fireball>heavier recoil, but controllable>fall in love, not with price, but didn't care>at this point I've done no ballistic testing of my own, just trust online data>love gun so much can't stop finger-fucking it>come home from night shift 6am tired and head to basement to finger-fuck it before bed>accidently chamber round>BABBIE'S 1ST FUCKING ND>totally freak out>live in rural community alone...tree fall in forest no one but me hear it>gain composure and start looking all over for damage>Cor-bon max CIP 125gr FMJFN at almost 1600fps has:>gone through 1 1/2 wood table at 30deg angle...>clean through both sides of 55gal drum filled with molasses (I make 'shine')...>through work bench cabinet filled with tools...>THROUGH A CIRCULAR SAW...>embeds into limestone masonry foundation wall...>ANOTHER 2 INCHES>rush to clean shit up, molasses especially>afterwards pry bullet from wall>significantly deformed (no longer truncated) but generally still cylindrical in shape>realize the round literally leroy jenkinsed itself through the equivalent of 5 blocks of ballistic gel>fuckin' freight train>love becomes lifelong>have at least 4-5000rds various types>will never abandon .357 sig
>>64283943
>>64280344It's a meme but I like it. it's fun.the 357 is the worst pistol out of all of these to shoot, though, so there's that.
>>64281465Good choice. I have a 550 and a 572. They do everything I want to do.
>>64283946Like this?
>>64284301does it recoil more than the .40 or the .45?
>>64285264Exactly. East TN, older forest that was logged between 1910 and 1920.
>>64284301i was surprised the p226 in .357 was so enjoyable to shoot.
>>64282405Pretty sure there's a .32 NAA.
>>64280344The last time I heard anything good about the .357 Sig round was when it was used at that "shooting gallery" in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania several years ago. Three GLOCK handguns, all chambered in .357 Sig.9mm rounds these days have improvements that make them more effective than before.As for bottleneck handgun rounds, I'd like to see the 7.65 Parabellum AKA .30 Luger make a comeback.
>>64284072>More pressure equals more bolt thrustAll other things being equal, more pressure equals more bolt thrust. All other things are not equal.
>>64285634>>64286038357 SIG and a short barrel is a terrible idea on every level. You need a big boy gun for it.
>>64280344Its a good woods gun. Much flatter shooter than 9mm and carriest 9mm power to like 100m. Not good for home defense or carry around town. Its designed basically just for penetration.
>>64287312Shove a 90gr XTP in there and get it doing 1800-1900ft/s, you'll see some shit.
>>64285634>does it recoil more than the .40About the same. >does it recoil more than the .45?Yes. Not by much though.>>64287285Correct, .40 and .357 SIG are decent in compact barrels but are awful in subcompacts.
>>64287550With 357 you want to be aiming for 5", G31 will work but sticking a threaded barrel in there for the extra half-inch without bulk is a good idea. You can fit quite a lot of slow powder in that case but you'll struggle to get to 600 ft-lbs if you can't burn it. Plus of course it's really fucking loud.
>>64285634I don't have a .40, just a couple .45 and a couple 9mm9mm out of a full sized USP is very comfortable and forgiving. 9mm out of the p2000sk is also comfortable and forgiving, but not to the same degree. Somewhat unsurprisingly, the two .45s are also both comfortable and forgiving. As for why I don't have a .40, it's because other than the HK45, which was my first 45 and the second of these pistols, and which I actually bought on purpose, all these guns are things I just happened to come across and there was zero planning involved.
>>64283943hahaha fuck that got me
>>64285258desu the one that won my heart was a husqvarna lawnmower. 15 years and counting and that thing starts on the first pull, every time.seen some wild husqvarna rifles in my time too
>>64280402>I dont like buying impractical calibersin that case, don’t buy anything. The ultimate min/max strat is to not buy anything because odds are you’ll never need it.
>>64288285Might have to give them a go next time I'm getting a mower. Have a Snapper that is an absolute pain to deal with.
>>64280369The problem I have with 9x25 Dillon is that starline doesn't sell it, and no one else, really, so all the brass has to come from 10mm and necked down by hand like real dyed in the wool wildcat. Even 40 super has a new brass source.
>>64282404But are there fewer .30 SC guns in consumer hands than there were .357 Sig in 1997?
>>64287589KKM sells a G24 conversion barrel for 357 Sig, should be same lockup as 31
the very high velocity of the round and thus the implied very flat trajectory fo the projectilelike that one church shooting in the yuesayy where some CC geezer one-shotted some madlad from about 30 yars
>>64290362>about 30 yarsmore like 15 yards and he shot him in the head so caliber really didnt matter. also his draw time was shit and his situational awareness was sub par, let he two people die.
>>64280402>secret serviceThey have an AP load for .357 SIG that works very effectively against IIIA out of a handgun. Not sure if they still use it.
>>64290368>churchful of 60+y/os>he didnt snap to it like my favorite ex-military guntoober in his gunkhana videos on the 28th take did>people should be just on the fucking edge all the fucking time, just waiting for some shit to pop off so they can drawMaybe gun handling should not be your primary source of worry, rather than the state/govt handling mental patients to even be allowed into the public in the first place. More money spent on (privately owned) prison camps instead of menatal institutions funded by the government and ministry of health.
>>64290276Yes.
>>64290428>people should be just on the fucking edge all the fucking time, just waiting for some shit to pop off so they can drawWannabee cop mall security at my church is like this. He just obsessively stares you down like a retard and if you get up for any reason, like kids going to thr bathroom, he spergs out and makes jerky hand movements like you're holding an AK-47.He'll definitely end up shooting someone and getting arrested.
>>64282374Gunslinger Girl gun...
>>64288339doesnt mean I should maximize just incase some day by the offchance, ill need it once
>>64290351I know, I have one in my G24 slide right now. Put it in a 31 and that's well out of "not adding bulk" territory though, you're only doing that on a range.
Problem with .357 SIG (as with 10 mm) is it's a blaster cartridge. To make efficient use of it and not blow all the gases out the muzzle, a 5-inch or longer barrel is required. That's why these cartridges are only ever used by handgun hunters, long range silhouette shooters, or CC'ers that really really like carrying big/long barrel handguns in urban areas.
>>64291233They really missed a trick not doing an "official grip chop" for the 357s. A 7" slide is no problem, a 6" grip is.
>>64290439*Consumer* hands, and not LEAs bribed by Sig? I doubt it.
>>64291281>*Consumer* hands, and not LEAs bribed by Sig? I doubt it.Whatever helps you cope. The fact of the matter is that the cartridge remains on life support because people have continued to buy it. If consumers didn't have any, then it would have gone away before now.
>>64291296Obviously a CC cartridge isn't going to see LE adoption like .9000 niggerkiller, cops don't CC. .30SC has an actual niche that won't go away, .357 Sig only around because police departments love to get scammed on meme shit.
>>64291311>Obviously a CC cartridge isn't going to see LE adoption like .9000 niggerkillerAnon, lots of cops carry a .380 ACP or .38 special as a backup gun. They fall within your niche of small guns with decent capacity.>.30SC has an actual niche that won't go awayIts attempted niche was to replace 9mm. When people saw lighter mass bullets and recoil that felt about the same, they didn't care. "Wow, I can carry 2 extra bullets in my S&W EZ, I just have to carry 90-115 gr ammo instead of 115-147 gr ammo. Wow, all the people who tested it can't tell any difference in recoil despite that being a major selling point. Wow!"
>30 scIt's already dead
>>64291456Real shame nobody bothered making really thin guns for it.
>>64291474Really, it's the one way that it could take off. If someone made a gun in 30 sc that is so small, that 9mm could not fit in it, it would have a solid advantage. It would still feel iffy paying 1.5-2x more for weaker ammo, but it's not like .380 users didn't feel the same pain, and that is very much alive.
>>64291556>what if we designed a handgun around a caliber, instead of making it for 9mm and then shoving a different round in itWhat a great idea, shame theyll never do that
>>64280344If it's a P229, go for it. They were designed for it. A lot of guns were 9mm guns quickly converted to cover the market gap but not built or sprung well for it. Just like .40 S&W.It snaps like a bitch, but you can master it. It is pretty flat for a pistol out to 100 yards. Also, something something barrier penetration.I really like it, but it's fucking expensive so I mostly shoot .40 which is just a barrel swap. I imagine that's what you'll do, too.
>>64280344>>357 sig>>more powerful than, less powerful thanTherein lies the rub. Unless you can demonstrate that a specific pistol cartridge creates a larger permanent cavity by total volume in a large mammal then more power, more energy is an absolutely worthless claim. I have seen instances where in pistol calibers the total wound volume is larger and the difference was simply more velocity, but it was a significantly larger velocity. Full load 357 magnum and 44 magnum come to mind. Outside that in every example I have seen including the copper screwdrivers the biggest factor is always total final expansion and depth of penetration. Slow and heavy with a larger starting diameter does not have to overcome the increase in impact resistance and often that is the deciding factor. This phenomenon can be seen when shooting a very short barrel vs a full size barrel. You lose some expansion due to decreasing impact velocity/resistance but end up with a much larger total wound volume. 357 sig? Its 9mm retarded cousin. Its not doing shit all. 40 is better all the way around. As is 45. And the usual suspects 357 mag and 44 mag leave them all behind when it comes to terminal ballistics. Jelly isn't flesh. Stop chasing cool patterns in jelly.
>>64292096Cops liked .357 Mag because the 124gr load they were carrying was very effective on human targets.One guess what the entire purpose of 357 SIG is.
