From the K-19 “Hiroshima” to my boy Sergei Preminin, discuss the Russian military’s history of reactors.Sequel to the first three threads. Feel free to also bring up their land based military reactors, Mayak is a bit of a doozy
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63053811/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63104003/https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63235460/I think what made the first couple of threads great(and why previous attempts at a 4th have floundered) is it was welcoming. We simplified and explained stuff to curious anons, we shared anecdotes and incidents we knew about, we translated stuff and shared documents, and we dug into the horrors hidden in the Russian language works at Mayak. Let's have a good thread lads
Anyone have better sources on the K-431?
I love how these threads brought a horrific Russian accident that had zero coverage in English media to light and have basically single handily sparked it's spread.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-1_(nuclear_reactor) Annushka has a wikipedia page and it mentions the meltdowns and the human toll, people have cited our translations on Reddit, for the love of god someone made a HistoryMeme about what happened to Kurchatov. (Normally not a reddit guy, but fuck it drag Russia's past into the light). We might get cited for bringing this disaster to light by Kyle Hill or Plainly Difficult some day.
The Six Million Sievert Man is still the craziest story to come out of these>Chechen thieves in 1999 break into a facility in Grozny to steal cobalt >6 Colbalt-60 rods measuring 27,000 curies each are taken. (So 162 thousand curies, like 6 PBQ) >One of the thieves holds onto them against his body for a while, one report says he was shirtless not sure>Someone dies within 30 minutes
>>64284407holy shit
>>64284407>>6 Colbalt-60 rods measuring 27,000 curies each are taken.>162 thousand curiesevery time i read stuff like this i remember that the Curie unit was considered borderline useless because it was simply too big, forcing scientists to use mili and nanocuries
>>64284407>Chechen thieves in 1999 break into a facility in Grozny to steal cobaltLike, they knew what they were after? Or did they just steal something they figured had value, like a junkie stealing copper wire
>>64285145Shit, anon. Even if you're dealing with micro curies, you're dealing with something nasty. We start paying attention on the nano curie scale.
>>64285145So what? We have scientific notation for Curies and Torr.
>>64284335>Russian military’s history of reactors.Even I will admit the Alpha class reactor was provocative.
>>64285856>So what? We have scientific notation for Curies and Torr.This >>64285833It's about the orders of magnitude between what people already perceive as extremely dangerous and than reading about people blasting themselves with a 10000 times stronger doseIt's like watching a race, knowing that a specific curve can be taken with speeds bordering 250km/h only to see someone trying to take it at Mach5
>>64284407What were the rods intended to be used for?
>>64284407How many Rutherford’s is that?
>>64286297Mustard gas.
>>64286564
>>64286297Radiation treatment, probably.
>>64285199>Six individuals attempted to steal radioactive material from a chemical factory in Grozny. They opened a container and removed several of nine 12-cm rods of cobalt-60, each one 27,000 curies. One individual handled a source for a few minutes and reportedly died 30 minutes later. Of the others, two died of radiation exposure and three suffered radiation injury.Unclear?
>>64284407I heard they saw blue. As in Cherenkov radiation. WITH THEIR EYES FUCKING CLOSED.
Not a sub or reactor, but it involves radiation. You'd think people would stop renting the apartment after the fifth death or so.
>>64287484They did, it was from the water in their eyes getting chernkoved.
Do we still have a reactor guy here? Chernobyl guy did a video on the LaSelle 1988 incident and said it had the potential to be really bad had the operators continued to take inaction and had the automatic scram failed.>TL:DR, BWR ended up over-pressured and being massively over-cooled while almost all the control rods were out, leading to the temperature crashing and all the steam bubbles collapsing which is bad in a reactor with Negative Void Coefficient and Negative Temperature Coefficient. Fuel begins localized massive power spikes and drops every couple of seconds as it briefly surges, the heat slows it back down, the overcooling freezes it up again, and repeat, to the point it was reaching brief prompt criticality over and over. Operators were mostly unconcerned and it was the automatic scram that bailed them out.
>>64287601Can I ask how people decide when cancers can and can't be counted as 'officially caused by accidents'. I hear typically you can't tell what caused most cancers and it's impossible to say what's what, hence all the crazy estimates for the true toll of Chernobyl. But on the other hand the 31st and last official Chernobyl death was a cancer, the only official Fukushima death was a cancer, and these deaths are all considered part of the incident despite being leukemia.
>>64287484>I heard they saw blue. As in Cherenkov radiation. WITH THEIR EYES FUCKING CLOSED.Yeah, the fact that all the cases where the victims reported seeing the blue flash without the source being in water were Cherenkov radiation in their fucking eyeballs really drives home how dangerous some of the sources areOn topic of Cherenkov radiation>be a random dude in an irradiation facility in San Salvador>operator calls you and another dude over to help clear a blockage in the irradiation chamber>Don't worry, powers off, it's safe lol>Clear the blockage, source rack can be lowered back >by lifting it by hand>Success, source rack lowered into the pool>Water instantly glows blue>operator seems to realize something>Hurries you outside>Go grab some fresh air with him>He starts puking blood >Fug
>>64287601>>64287704>I hear typically you can't tell what caused most cancers and it's impossible to say what's what,This, a lot or rarer cancers don't have any clear outside causes besides speculationThere however cases that can link specific cancers to radiation, one very similar to the Kramatorsk incidentIn Taipei a cobalt 60 source landed in a recycling plant and ended up as rebar in dozens of buildings only to be discovered years laterSurprisingly a study showed that inhabitants of the contaminated flats had on average lower cancer mortality, but some specific cancer types (leukemia for men, thyroid for women) happened significantly more often >tfw it was discovered by a random dude in his own flat just because he bought a Geiger counter to fool around
>>64284380Some really good documentaries on YouTube now done by English speaking Ukrainains.Can find the other though this guyhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0whxxcfQ6rw
>>64287484>>64287671
>>64287853I know how i'm going to keep my driveway clear of snow and ice this winter. Salt and shovelling is for the dogs.
>>64288929>I know how i'm going to keep my driveway clear of snow and ice this winter>ynr the three lumberjacks in Georgia who found two of them and used them as heaters, sleeping around them
>>64288243Kramatorsk is in Ukraine (subject to change).
>>64284407
>>64287685>LaSelle in the 80s>Being criminally incompetent/on cokeYeah that sounds about right, I worked Dresdan station and it's a shithole like you would not fucking believe. God, fuck Exelin/Constellation west. As for the near miss, the drywell and suppression pool would have caught it but the reactor would have been fucking scrap.
>>64289221Dresden/Exelon sorry. I just did a 5 hour Stalker2 binge and I'm at the mercy of auto correct.
>>64284407376,924 REM/hr at a footLet's assume it was in a pocket for 30 minutes>Body dose of almost 190 kiloREMFucking incredible, dude was dead in less than ten seconds and didn't even know it.
>>6428927710 seconds might not even be enough time to finish reading DROP AND RUN if you picked it up and turned it over to read the writing
Benis
>>64286297dildos
>>64284380>Unlike the US B reactor, which used horizontal loading of uranium and irradiation slugs, Soviet scientists successfully pushed for a vertical design.[2] This became the forerunner of the RBMK design. Man the bad decisions really do go all the way to the very start for Russian atomics
>>64289204>fingers mutating longer
>>64284407>curiescurry?P.S. Imagine the smell.
>>64289221So Level 5 INES if the autoscram had failed and they had kept troubleshooting until the reactor had popped itself? Can’t imagine that would have done the nuclear industry much good at that time
>>64289365>>64289277He ain’t called the 6 Million Sievert Man for nothing. And we cannot rebuild him. Bro’s body cant even rebuild itself at that point. And that’s at a foot not contact
Do you ever read stuff like this and wonder how humanity hasn't already killed itself?
>>64290917>Do you ever read stuff like this and wonder how humanity hasn't already killed itself?>electrocuted rat.pngEvery time i think that nuclear semiotics treats the matter too seriously stories like those make me remember that you don't need to wait centuries because people are doing retarded shit with radioactive materials right now
>>64290917It's a big planet and you can catastrophically fuck up in one part while basically not effecting the rest.
It's not nuclear waste. but ties in to what some other anons have said. How do you fuck up that badly? Like holy fuck that's going to kill so many people. https://www.hudson.org/environment/global-impact-chinas-water-related-environmental-problems-thomas-duesterberg
>>64290707>6 Million Sievert ManNow that gave me a good chuckle. :^)
On the subject, I do wonder what kind of accidents and fuck ups have occurred in China. You just know there's some. But looking at their wikipedia page, there's almost nothing, the page has a grant total of 2 incidents, both from the past 20 years, although there is a tantalising hint at a couple more:>Details are unclear, but The Washington Post reported in 2003 that there had been other incidents, including "the reported explosion of a Xia class nuclear submarine during construction", and that one of the first Ming-class submarines was scrapped because a fire broke out on board also during construction.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_accidents_in_China
>>64291594Their plants piss tritium like a drunk at a baseball game and I've personally seen CCTV of them folding incoming new fuel bundles like bendy straws.
>>64291605Do they think snapping fuel rods like glow sticks helps them work better?
>>64291711Nah newbie on the crane jerked it at 9001mph and uranium is heavy == does not want to move quickly
>>64289221>>64290917There's probably a timeline where the Nuclear industry is run like the refinery industry, being mass built in the 50s with First Gen designs and then keeping them running and barely updated for decades. Probably a lot more three mile island type events. How dangerous were Gen 1 designs compared to Gen 2 designs anyway? There aren't a ton of examples outside of the UK(which sort of did what I said, they pushed out a ton of Magnox's in the late 50s and early 60s and were the world leader on Nuclear Power for a while). There aren't a ton of examples of Gen 1 power plants actually, Outside of the Magnox series, Russia has Obinisk, Novovoronezh-1, and the two Beloyarsk reactors. America had Shippingport, Dresden-1, Indian Rowe, Fermi-1, and Yankee Point. Maybe Marcoule in France?
These are the few types of /k threads I happily read from top to bottom. Thanks gents. Also would love to read more on the fuck ups, especially China. I know a ton of the Russian ones.
>>64291840From what I know they largely had the same worst case scenarios as Gen 2 ones, but they had fewer safety layers stopping you from getting there and were just chronically messier and more prone to small fuck ups. So probably multiple TMI level events would have happened over the years plus a lot more Level 3 and 4's. >>64291858Hoping we get more translations or deep dives like the first 3 threads had.
>>64291840The issue really just comes down to containment. Once we started basing containment structure around large break LOCA flash to steam it didn't matter what was inside. The biggest issue you'd see is corrosion leaks pushing contamination into the environment. Also, all our plants ARE 40 or 50 year old shit pots that we run like a clapped out subaru held together with zip-ties and prayers. >And Red nuclear ductape, god I cannot express to you with the English language how much I fucking hate that tape
>>64291990Please tell me more about why you hate ductape.
>>64291990So basically what this guy said >>64291866More Level 4 and Level 5 events thanks to less layers of safety, but the worst case scenario wouldn't really be any different. because as far as I know all the non-russian ones had containment.
>>64292019I fucking love ductapeNuclear ductape is NOT the same. It uses a different adhesive that's not acidically corrosive to the primary system piping and it's the bane of my fucking existence. It also doesn't stick to anything but your contam control gloves, and itself. Both of which it bonds to with the will of god himself.
>>64292056I never knew there was a special nuclear version. I also love the regular stuff
>>64292071Special tape, special markers, special cleaning products, special glue, special everything. Corrosion control is like a religion in a plant.
>>64286297Sounding
>>64291605>CCTV of them folding incoming new fuel bundles like bendy strawsOh fuck, link/webm?
>>64292024I don't think the first couple Magnox's or the first french plant had containment domes. The logic in the super early days was that containment was for water reactors that could potentially explode and expand a thousand fold when the steam flashboiled, not for lower pressure reactors using gas or sodium. That changed by the mid 60s and everyone started using containment.
>>64292179The most important factor in nuclear safety is to not be a fucking asian. The moment slants or sland adjacent (Russians) touch them it all goes to hell. Even Mexico can run a plant. Looking forward to the Chinese or Korean disaster. >Fun fact, Korea got kicked off the plant operation project for the UAE AP1000 because of their rice brained behavior
>>64292126That makes sense the nuke engineers I know mention how much it sucks that everything they use is special purpose that it impacts their ability to do anything else because they have to spend a lot of time to change states in how they are solving the problem with other, but similarly named, materials
>>64292383Yeah they also get to deal with the >"yes that is mechanically the ideal material for this application, and yes, this other one is a sublime cost to property ratio while exceeding safety margin. However, you can't use any of them because they turn into super gamma under neutron bombardment. Now do it all again and give me the same results and price with something that doesn't" Poor bastards, they don't even get to leave their cubicle to see the finished product. Truly the shittiest career path.
>>64284335Can i get a qrd on these threads?
>>64292411Way to summarize their mental health issues in a single sentence. I mean you're right, but fuck that's their day-to-day
>>64292423I work with two people that got to the last semester of a four year degree involving that shit and said "Fuck this, I'm climbing in the reactor." And every day they make me feel like an absolutely incompetent child. >>64292422Firstly, checked. Basically "Russia fucked up radiation at a level approaching genetic predisposition. We know about these incidents, and you're welcome to chime in, but did you know about THESE ones?"
>>64292439Considering how small that field is, I might know one of them
>>64284407Is there a point where your body is so fucked up by radiation that it can't be fucked up any more? Afaik radiation destroys DNA and prevents your cells from dividing so you just start to rot after a certain point, but idk if you can fuck it up so badly your cells can't even produce ATP or something and you just insta-die
>>64292448Well, we work in a different department. Radiological Protection/Regulation/Health Physics.
>>64292459I should have refreshed before making my last post, fuck. Yes, high enough levels of gamma exposure literally turn the water in your cells into hydrogen peroxide. And extremely high beta radiation will just burn your ass like being put on a rock in the sun. It takes a significant dose, however. You'll die with thousands of times less exposure (assuming a lack of antibiotics or other medical intervention, etc... there's so many variables it's all spitballed numbers)
>>64292459I mean, if there was a point where that happened we'd know because of how they tortured that poor Japanese guy that was in a prompt criticality accident... Hisashi Ouichi? Something like that. His last words before he lost the ability to speak were begging the medical staff to let him die. They kept him alive for like 30 more days after that or something, as the skin and tissue just sloughed off his body because he was so heavily dosed that his bones would irradiate blood transfusions and skin grafts. The pictures of it are fucking haunting. The descendants of Japan's Unit 731 are in the medical field.
>>64292474>Yes, high enough levels of gamma exposure literally turn the water in your cells into hydrogen peroxideHoly fuck lol
>>64291594Reading into that Xia class incident more and something is definitely up lol.QRD: Xia class is China's first nuclear powered SSBN. There is only one of them, it allegedly sailed only once and never went on any other missions, has never been outside Chinese waters, apparently suffered persistent radiological leaks, and there are continouous rumours that it, or a second ship, exploded/sank when they were building it. I don't know what to believe, but apparently it's still in service lol.I don't know which would be worse, a second boat being so damaged by something (?) that they scrap it, or the single boat being a patchwork they've kept going for 40 years after fires and radiation leaks.
>>64292474at high doses immediate death is caused by enzymatic disruption, this is analogous to nerve gases breaking the nerve signaling pathway or cyanide the respiration pathway
>>64292501Please keep in mind, under even an extreme or fatal dose you don't see it melting the cells or anything. It's just a fun attention grabber to give you an idea of how significant ionizing radiation can be on biological matter.The damage from that reaction can actually be repaired by the body and even contributes to theoretical radiation hormesis through which the defective cells that cannot repair are killed and thus reduces the future potential of them turning into cancer.However, there is a theoretical point where the damage is so acute it just doesn't matter anymore and your body fucking dies at a cellular level all over. Also, please keep in mind that biological effects are typically phrased as an effect of "whole body dose." So you may see something like "600 REM is a 50% likelihood of death." Or "1000 REM is a 100% certainty of death." Then some guy get 10,000 REM to the dome in a news article and walk it off and be thinking "this is bullshit." The difference is, that guy got a localized acute dose of "super huge number" from a neutron or something to a slow dividing cell group like the CNS, and the numbers for death or biological effects are deep tissue whole body gamma radiation that disrupt cell replacement in an area like your intestines. It's all very very "well, yes, however..." If you find this stuff interesting grab a copy of Gollnik off ebay. He goes into just about everything from basic atomic theory, to biological effects, to instruments/detectors/hardware. Don't worry too much about getting a $300 copy or 6th or 7th or whatever edition he's on now. It's the same book with a chapter about fukashima or whatever to sell new copies to the same 800 people and fund his track corvette. >>64292564Yeah going off memory I believe it's a 1000R dose to reach CNS effect? I'll be honest it's like learning a kind of math in school then never using it again, you forget specifics. I think the most I've had is 0.3 REM in a shift.
>>64292589yes, CNS effects dominate above 8Gyenzymatic effects above 50Gy total body dosethere were several cases of people absorbing over 100Gy and surviving for 1 or 2 days, to die in 30 minutes like a bacteria in an irradiator you would need kGy doses, I doubt it was even tested on vertebraes, too bad IAEA wasn't involved because we would have a nice report of a truly unique case
>>64292611I hate you so much for using Si units lol, but I'll get over it because dubs. It's a god damn shame the Soviets were so childish about destroying records. A lot of good science was lost and the horrific deaths really were for absolutely nothing. At least the evil fucks that tortured Ouchi by not euthanizing him wrote it down.
>>64292460Did he go to TAMU?
For anyone looking to get a radiation measurement tool, these little fuckers are the bees knees. They do basically everything, even gamma spec. >please excuse the messy display case, I'm moving everything to a new spot soon and I've gotten lazy. >>64292658Nope
>>64292688Alright I don't know him then
>>64292589>>64292611You guy's have made this thread 10x more interesting than it otherwise would've been. Kudos before I collapse from sleep deprivation
>>64286297Food irradiation
>>64292611>to die in 30 minutes like a bacteria in an irradiator you would need kGy doses I doubt it was even tested on vertebraesChechen Thieves on their way to make history
>>64292560>>64291594I trust the civilian nuclear industry in China. They got started in the backhalf of Gen 2 when most of the kinks had been worked out and after Mao was gone, and they mostly use imported designs like the AP1000 or VVER-1200. They even stopped building reactors inland after Fukushima just in case so half the contamination would go out to sea instead of staying inland. They learned their lesson after Banqiao and nobody wants that on their hands.But the military got their nuke shit earlier, and unlike the civilian side(which got a lot of stuff from America and Europe, and the Russian stuff they did get was the VVER which is the safest thing the Russian nuclear industry has ever made) they got a ton of their design basis and foundations from Russia. There's probably a nasty incident or two hiding there we don't know about. Maybe one of them pulled a K-431 and exploded.Doesn't Russia have a ship that had a mysterious reactor accident they refuse to talk about that they've left hiding in port since
North Korea apparently has an old Magnox reactor they got 50 years ago still working in their nuclear industry, and that's just the one we know about. We don't know what the reactors they built themselves are like, but we do know one time a flood carried stuff into a river going into South Korea and there was plutonium contamination.So there's probably some Mayak tier shit going on in Norkyland and the only reason we don't know is because even they aren't crazy enough to use nitrate waste techniques anymore.
>>64287790Not exactly. I'm not saying that Cherenkov can't happen in the eyes, but when we're dealing with a truly hot source (think prompt criticality) you're going to see that blue flash from a mile away, well beyond the danger zone. You'll even see it around the corner of shielding. It's usually caused by the nitrogen in the air being ionized, which you won't need direct line of sight to see.>>64292056And it's a motherfucker to get the adhesive residue off of certain surfaces after the fact. This isn't the place to get too specific anon, but I'm curious about whether you're working in a private or public facility. Your lingo suggests private.>t. public here, and that tape residue really is a motherfucker on poly containments>and for you anons not in this field, yes, working with duct tape while in anti-c's is a bit of an art form>like chess, it takes a moment to learn, and a lifetime to master>>64292622I'm fascinated by their experiences with treating radiation sickness with things that we don't discuss in other countries. In particular, I'm reminded of the situation where the chief firefighter at Chernobyl had received an enormous dose but his blood work was indicated something far less, and one of the health physicians accused him of being drunk. After being accused several times (and being shown the blood work results as proof), he finally admitted that he'd been drunk on duty, and that's why he'd been harmed less than he should have.That sort of shit doesn't even get talked about in America, let alone studied. Or does it? I've never heard of any such studies, and I've been in this field for a while. Presumably the Russians documented it somewhere (it seemed to be common knowledge in the 80's) but I've never seen specifics. Maybe it hasn't been translated or something. Or maybe it's just bullshit Slavic folk medicine, like dumping cold water over your head first thing in the morning. Just one of those things that I wonder about.
>>64292688Can confirm. I'm this anon.>>64285833>>64293003Those Radiacodes are actually far more sensitive than most G-M tubes due to the nature of the technology being used (crystal vs. gas) and the software functionality on PC is impressive. Shopping for uranium glass and Fiestaware at second hand stores becomes much more fun when you can measure actual activity, and you're not just eyeballing the color. It's also entertaining to just walk around town while logging activity. Depending on where you live, you may learn some shit that you never suspected.>bonus round: next time you fly somewhere, put your radiacode in your checked bag>you had no idea what kind of a dose you get while you fly, but you'll learn>you'll also find out when your luggage went through the x-ray machine>and if you're flying through SEA, you'll learn how dangerously fucking leaky their machine isAccording to the instrumentation at work, mine is fairly accurate. I recommend turning off the sound when in public, as most people are conditioned to react with horror to the radiation counter click, even if it's just counting a normal background.
>>64293003America will never know as much about Chronic Radiation Syndrome as the Russians because they don’t leave people in places that hot for years on end, meanwhile Russia has the areas upwind and downstream of Mayak.
>>64287790>that storynani the fuck anon
>>64284380>Two partial meltdowns and a graphite fire occurred in June and July of 1948. >Uranium slugs were removed after five months of operation, at temperatures over 100 °C (212 °F).>Many were partially melted or otherwise corroded. It was not known at the time they also gave off radiation in the megacurie range. >There was also exposure to gasseous fission products.>173 workers were known to have developed>plutonium >silicosis>A significant discharge of radiation into the Techa river following this was also linked to over 200 chronic radiation syndrome cases.
>>64292346>Fun fact, Korea got kicked off the plant operation project for the UAE AP1000 because of their rice brained behaviorPlease tell me more
>>64292422QRD: AaaaahTLDR: Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaah
>>64293003>alcohol can reduce/treat radiation sicknessThat's bullshit but I believe it.
Apologies for vanishing, I've been on my Stalker2 binge before my work season starts for reactor refueling. >>64292737Happy to be here man, just take anything I say with a grain of "look it up yourself" okay? I'm a field technician, that means I do mostly hands on work, not lab work, and I do pretty much everything from memory. I'm not looking anything up before I post. So concepts, solid, exact numbers... eh, I memorize the legal regulations because that's my job. The other guy is probably much more precise. >>64293003>private or public facilityI do power reactors, DEO and their megacuries of alpha can fuck riiiiiiight off lol. (I'll end up there eventually, we all do. But LANL hasn't offered enough money yet)>>64293003>>64293185Alcohol absolutely works and it's actually useful in different ways. Although the most common way is a hillbilly chelating agent. I got an uptake (internal dose) of a bunch of shit working on a generator platform a couple years ago and the solution was a case of beer. Two days of that and I no longer set off the detector by standing too close lmao>>64293017They're also great for finding old folks in public pumped full of medical isotopes! The mapping function is absolutely fantastic. And the ability to detect and identify alpha emitters based of characteristic gamma is the coolest shit ever! I've also found it to be extremely consistent with our ion chambers at work. Although the limit of 0.1 REM is unfortunate since I'm constantly dealing with higher fields.
>>64293241DOE, fuck. I need to proof read my posts. >>64293159Basically, in the United States, the licensed reactor operator has absolute authority over the station. They are constantly in training and license testing, most plants run a twin set of shifts so one group is in training while the other group is actually working. If they make a decision, jesus and the corporation CEO could be standing there in person and have absolutely no say in it.They work very hard to earn and maintain that authority.>Key note, licensed reactor operators are not the same as "Op's" operators, those guys are not in the control room, they're 60' in the air free climbing pipes to physically turn a valve and align the plant to a flow diagram. Nuclear plants are like giant concrete WWII submarines and they're 70% valve wheels by volume, pic kinda tongue in cheek related.)In Korea, the plants chief engineer is "the guy" and everything goes through him. It's very asian-ySo the korean representation in the UAE was doing evaluations under the head of operations (an American) and he decided to throw some verbal thought exercises at them. It went something like>You're in the control room and receive a vibration alarm from turbine 2, the operator in the field reports that they can't find a fault, but after they hang up you receive an additional high vibration alarm on the panel. What do you do?"Call the chief engineer">He's not answering, what do you do?"Call the assistant engineer" >He's not answering either. You now have a persistent high vibration alarm and your field operator reports a concerning noise on the turbine deck"I call the chief engineer">....The chief engineer died in a horrible car accident three minutes ago and everyone under him has food poisoning and is in the hospital. WHAT. DO. YOU. DO."I call the plant manager!"They were removed from the project that week.This is the same behavior that caused Fujashima, an Asian culture of top down management.
>>64293272Hit character limit >FukashimaAbsolute shit show and should have never happened. They had multiple opportunities to save the plant and chose to not take action because they didn't want to act without permission and supersede the managements authority. Which, was basically impossible to not do because the whole country just got its shit rocked by a massive earthquake and tsunami. So they made the only socially safe play, do nothing you didn't already have explicit permission to do. They could have saved the plant with a fire truck and a helicopter for fucks sake. US plants have procedures for how to rip all the batteries out of the cars in tge employee parking lot like a nuclear tweaker and wire them up to kick start system components in a full loss of off-site power scenario. Fukashima would not happen like it did with an American plant staff (we do fuck up in other ways, of course.)They also refused to pay the needed money to upgrade the plant as per GE ""recommendations"" as well. Mostly because of corporate penny pinching, but also due to an offense at being told how to run their plant by "foreigners" Top to bottom avoidable incident and everyone involved should have been beaten in public with a garden hose. Thanks fir coming to my racist Ted talk, have a nuclear containment structure airlock as a gift.
>>64293003>just bullshit Slavic folk medicine, like dumping cold water over your head first thing in the morning.that would drop a big dose of epinephrine and maybe increase testosterone as well. there were some studies back in the 90s about the test effect. gotta be careful though, if you're an unhealthy fatty it also might kill you. it's the reason why you find cold practise shit in so many cultures, it's a simple way to get an adrenaline rush.
>>64293003>but when we're dealing with a truly hot source (think prompt criticality) you're going to see that blue flash from a mile away, well beyond the danger zoneThat's true but i meant the stolen/orphaned sources stories not demon core level shenanigansFun shit, Eyeball Cherenkov radiation also sometimes happens during radiotherapy, often enough to warrant experiments confirming it
>>64293272>Asian culture of top down management.Picrel, a guy who escaped the Cultural Revolution by following what he called "The Three No's."
>>64293378I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the number one rule for nuclear accident prevention is the ability to tell your boss to get fucked. Hisashi Ouchi died because his bosses boss demanded an increase to production and his boss couldn't say "we don't have the manpower or equipment to support that, get fucked." And when it rolled down to him, Ouchi couldn't say "I don't have the equipment to safely move this much terrifying death slurpie, get fucked." Instead we got him and his coworker discarding the safe configuration flasks because they didn't hold enough material (which was the fucking POINT!) and moving uranium acid slushies in fucking buckets trying to meet demands and promises that started a dozen levels of management above them.
>>64293272>>64293378This why i am absolutely certain there were a lot of accidents, nuclear and otherwise, that we still have no idea of, that happened in ChinaThey suffer from an unholy combo of Asian face saving culture / top down management and lax attitude towards safety measures typical for commie countries>In East Germany, they thought that venting explosive vinyl chloride gas from an autoclave straight onto the busy factory floor was a good idea, never mind that vinyl chloride gas int't exactly healthy even when it doesn't explode
>>64293432>Hisashi OuchiThere's a morbid irony in that name
As a thirdie who knows fuck all about reactors, you guys are cool. Puts into perspective how nuclear reactors are the most intensive and dangerous places to work with (when done wrong).
>>64293432im in awe of the restraint of the guy making that graphic that he didn't write "JUST A FUCKING BUCKET" underneathPoor fucker had to mix uranyl nitrate as if it was concrete on shoddy construction site
So we all think about the big guys when it comes to nuclear whoopsies, like US,UK, Russia, China etc, but what about the tiny countries? Any funny things happening with Swedish/Fin/Norwegian/Australian reactors that never really made news? Some random Libyan doing shit in his basement?
>>64293093yeah, it stuck with me for two reasons, first the supposedly trained operator thinking that cobalt 60 stops being radioactive when you turn the power off, as if it was a fucking flashlight and the second reason, that from the perspective of the two guys helping him, which knew even less, it must have been an absolutely horrifying experiencehttps://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub847_web.pdf
>>64293641Maybe they thought it was an X-Ray type thing where the power matters?
>>64293272I was going to bring up how they made fun of this in Shin Godzilla, but Hideaki Anno literally made fun of this exact fucking thing 15 years pre-Fukushima in the Jet Alone episode of Evangelion. Reactor is about to fucking explode and everyone keeps calling their bosses and waiting for authority instead of taking action(and said Bosses are off playing golf and can't be reached). Pic related is even a fucking popular meme character in Japan.Only difference is no natural disaster that one was caused by Ritsuko Ritsukoing all over them.
>>64293302You a nuke engineer? Where'd you learn all these, if I'm a 30 year old with programming knowledge can I touch the magic green super power juice at a decent salary?
>>64294415nailed it, that's what he though, give it a few minutes and you are safe
>>64294584>>64294415I know the actual difference is the electro spectrum wave length thing, X Ray is lower and closer to UV, Gamma is higher, but in practice I find most people just say X-Ray for the electric stuff and Gamma for the source stuff.
>>64291990>all our plants ARE 40 or 50 year old shit pots that we run like a clapped out subaru held together with zip-ties and prayersName a single industrial facility, power plant or factory or otherwise, where this isn't the case.t. tech at a french fry factory held together with zip-ties, 3D prints, and prayers to the Omnissiah
>>64293272>korean representation in the UAE was doing evaluationsName of the project?
This would make more sense to me ngl>INES Level 6: Fukushima and Windscale>INES Level 7: Mayak 57 and Chernobyl
>>64293591> The accident at an industrial irradiation facility in San Salvador was quite different from that in Goiania, being limited to the external irradiation of workers. However, it did result in a fatality, as had similar accidents in Italy in 1975 and in Norway in 1982.?
Hello can any of the kind glowies here get GE Vernova to read my fucking resume for once
I love these threads and the knowledgeable nuke guys so much it's unreal.
>>64292870Aren't chinese naval reactors based on a weird Japanese design?
If you were teleported inside the reactor 4 room, without any protective clothing, around how long would it take for you to receive a fatal dose of radiation?
>>64293003>he finally admitted that he'd been drunk on duty, and that's why he'd been harmed less than he should have.This is one piece of nuclear broscience I wholeheartedly believe in after that one brazillian guy who got a 7gy body dose and managed to die a few years later from drinking too much
>>64292870The VVER is pretty safe now, but the original 270 version wasn't built to survive a large pipe LOCA and would have run dry in 5 minutes if that happened. Not to mention I don't think the first plant had containment. (How the hell do you NOT design for a large pipe break LOCA that is THE design basis accident everyone worries about and plans around? The fucking Hanford B-Reactor had a plan for that. K-19 couldn't even handle a medium sized pipe LOCA)
>>64295013>Anon saved my picture This is a weird feeling. >>64295031>without any protective clothingPlease keep in mind, most nuclear protective clothing is just to keep you clean. It's contamination control, not radiation shielding. Literally fancy painters coveralls made of starch snd meant to melt in hot water for disposal processing. Pic related. Also I think that guy in your photo is doing my job lol. >>64294873They were still under construction and building the procedures and training for the UAE in-house operations department. >>64294496>You a nuke engineer?Nope, I'm kinda like a radioactive babysitter. I follow work groups into the field because they don't know shit about radiation and keep them safe/keep them from fucking anything up.I also map the radiation, lean up the radiation, clean the people who fucked up with the radiation, ensure and enforce legal compliance with the radiation under the Code of Federal Regulations title 10 part 20, stuff like that. >>64293547His ass WAS ouchie I'm sure. It makes looking up the incident from memory easier at least, god is a funny cunt.>>64293572At the point that you're mixing terms like uranium hexa-anything and "galvanized mop bucket" your professional composure is tested. I bet there's several much less PG13 drafts of that graphic out there.
>If only we have had the woods with our past mistakes. After all, a year before Chernobyl, on August 10, 1985, another major accident nuclear incident in the Soviet Union. Then, during the reloading of nuclear fuel on the K-431 nuclear submarine at the repair yard in Chazhma Bay in Primorsky Krai, as a violation of gross of the technology for the hazard for out of the operation, an explosion, an tore off the five-ton faction and through the inventory and all of the radioactive of their contents. All ten people who were subjected to care routine half delay: the explosion tore their bodies intot, and the monstrous radiation turned into the inside (according to the gold intov, is a developed that at the time of the explosion the radiation level of the radiation level 90,000 roentgens per hour).>The liquidation of the accident is being proactively. The crews of the submarines moored planned was the first to start fighting accident. They worked in what they have done to, in slippers on bare feet, subjecting yourself to a terrible race. The first echelon of liquidators had no means of protection, they worked as if with an ordinary fire. Everyone was overexposed then, and how could it was otherwise if there was no monitoring of the regional radiation situation.>As eyewitnesses later, discercibly the soot, color, dynamic, giant flames and clouds of brown smoke escaping from the wrecked submarine, and the exact smell of ozone was like, like, like, after a severe thunderstorm (the first sign of radioactive of radiation). People feel it, but did not think that it will be radiation. The realization of what had made happened, when people a picture of a destroyed nuclear reactor. The fire on the submarine was extinguished in two and a half hours. Half an hour later, the naval emergency team.
>>64295150>In the village of Shkotovo, which is one and are one and half a kind of from the plant, no one notice anything, especially we have not heard an explosion. By evening, an alarm was raised - the repair repermanems always returned at the same time, and day we were hours late hours. Then rumors bet to the leak out that some real accident at the fact. But this is already closer to night, during and during the day allusing was as usual - people have been busy with household chores in their yards, shopping, shopping, relaxing, children have free splashing in the sea, really, the present, whore, have been happy with the water was water, more, spreading it the whole area through the water throughout the water. By evening, the village have switched off communications to prevent information leaks.>290 people were injured in the accident - 10 before the time of the accident, 10 was diagnosed with radiation acute sickness, 39 a radiation reaction. A significant number of the injured by the injured person who was the first to begin the effect of the accident.>The Disciple Acutely Unpreparedness of Multiple Services of the Pacific Fleet to Emergency Response Analysis of the accident show that more than two hundred and at least 10 types of different units of the were fleet needed to remove to its consequences. To the coordinate actions, it was good to create a command post, invite and experts consultants, form an emergency headquarters, special forces, a introduction a special mode of work and interaction with the civilian population, federal, etc. Almost a year later, dispse these, but more and late in contrast, manifested themselves during the liquidation of the accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant.
>>64295150>>64295166For the record this is the massive Promot criticality caused by accidentally yanking all the rods out with a crane. Thank fucking god this was a fresh fuel load and it didn’t happen on a spent reactor
>>64295031You have some estimates of radiation levels inside right after the accident here: https://www.chernobylgallery.com/chernobyl-disaster/radiation-levels/And the health effects can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome#Dose_effectsAs long as the radiation source is external you get about on Sievert per Grey. Start inhaling radioactive dust and every Grey will give you a bit more Sieverts than that.What the radiation levels are today? Well, a lot less since all the really perky isotopes are long gone by now, but good luck finding out exactly how much less.
>>64295178What would have happened with a spent Reactor anon?
>>64295178>accidentally yanking all the rods out with a crane.I know we're talking about the Soviet Union, but how the actual fuck can you fuck up this bad? As in yanking out the fuel rods out of an active reactor? Even by their standards, this is fucking retarded.
>>64295006>glowiesIf you don't have the nerve to say GLOW NIGGERS then you aren't cut out for anything above a McDonald's clerk
>>64295068K-19 was designed with a backup cooling system that wasn't installed. There's details buried somewhere in herehttps://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000078940.pdf
>>64295254That's the CIA you retard
>>64295219>good luck finding out exactly how much less.After the war I'm going to push my company hard to send me over for cleanup. I want to do exactly that.
>>64295226Fuel rods oh no. The control rods. All of them. At once. On a fucking submarine reactor(which are VERY temperamental to that sort of thing). The Prompt criticality itself generated something like 50 tons of energy based on how high the cap flew(rest of the energy was from the steam explosion). Hell of a fizzle.>>64295220Then there would have been huge amounts of cesium and plutonium and fun stuff and this would be closer to a mini-Kyshtym and that town would probably have civvies with beta burns or ARs.
>>64295368>decadent capitalist pig dogs needs to slowly remove his control rods instead of yanking them out all at once like glorious Soviet workersShameful.But seriously, how did it happen? Crane worker didn't know he was working on a fucking nuclear reactor? The more I'm told about it, the more questions I have.
>>64295409They needed to lift the lid and reposition it, but the control rods were already attached to the lid. They lifted the lid too far and the control rods were pulled out too much. It's not clear in any of the western versions why the control rods couldn't be removed again or why exactly they needed to reposition the lid.
>>64295368>>64295226>An explosion occurred during refueling of the submarine K-431 at Chazhma Bay, Vladivostok. The K-431, completed around 1965 as unit K-31, was a Project 675 (Echo II) class submarine with two pressurized water reactors, each 70 MWt capacity and using 20% enriched uranium as fuel. On 10 August 1985, the submarine was being refueled at the Chazhma Bay naval facility near Vladivostock. The submarine had been refueled but one reactor lid was leaking so the reactor tank lid was being removed again with the control rods attached. A beam was supposed to prevent the lid from being lifted too far, but this beam was positioned incorrectly, and the lid with control rods were lifted too far up. At 10:55 AM the starboard reactor became supercritical, resulting in a criticality excursion of about 5x1018 fissions and a thermal/steam explosion. >The explosion expelled the new load of fuel, destroyed the machine enclosures, rupturing the submarine's pressure hull and aft bulkhead, and partially destroyed the fuelling shack, with the shack's roof falling 70 meters away in the water. A fire followed which was extinguished after 4 hours, after which assessment of the radioactive contamination began. Most of the radioactive debris fell within 50-100 meters of the submarine, but a cloud of radioactive gas and particulates blew to the northwest across a 6-km stretch of the Dunai Peninsula, missing the town of Shkotovo-22, 1.5 km from the dock. The contaminated forest area was later surveyed as 2 square km in a swath 3.5 km long and 200-650 meters wide. Estimated initial radioactive release was about 2 MCi of noble gases and 5 MCi of other fission products, but most of this was short-lived isotopes; the estimated release inventory one hour after the accident was about 1000 Ci of non-noble fission products.
>>64295499>In part because the reactor did not contain spent fuel, the fraction of biologically active isotopes was far smaller than in the case of the Chernobyl reactor accident.>Ten naval personnel were killed (8 officers and 2 enlisted men), probably by the explosion itself and not from radiation injuries. Radiation injuries were observed in 49 people, with 10 developing radiation sickness; the latter figure included mostly firefighters, some of whom sustained doses up to 220 rad external and 400 rem to the thyroid gland. Of the 2,000 involved in cleanup operations, 290 were exposed to high levels of radiation compared to normal standards.>High-level waste gathered during clean-up operations were placed in temporary disposal sites. Due to the rapid decay of most of the reactor products and the cleanup operations, some dockyard facilities were able to resume operations four days later. About two months post-accident the radioactivity in water in the cove was comparable to background levels, and 5-7 months post-accident the radiation levels were considered normal throughout the dock area. The damaged submarine was towed to Pavlovsk Bay and berthed there.
>>64295465>>64295499This level of incompetence is hard to put into words. I wonder if there will ever be a 100% full disclosure of nuclear fuck ups in all former communist countries. Think the incidents China, Russia and N. Korea alone will yield.
>>64295525Oh this was like...one of 3 submarine prompt criticalitys caused by lifting fuckups. Dyatlov was at the one in the 1970s I think...
>>64295525Oh there never will be, so much has been covered up. Just odd radiation patches like chink cancer zones that kinda just pop up. When actual people get to these spots, its gonna be fun archeology.
>>64295525>I wonder if there will ever be a 100% full disclosure of nuclear fuck ups in all former communist countries.I'd guess no. Odds are there's been a number of fuckups over the year that never got properly investigated and documented, and where the evidence is now long gone and the witnesses dead and buried (of more or less natural causes).
>>64295520This Russian source blames a mysterious torpedo boat>…The nuclear submarine K-431 arrived in Chazhma Bay to replenish its nuclear fuel reserves, initially violating technical requirements by docking very close to a similar submarine and a floating dosimetry station, instead of anchoring at a separate pier as required by safety regulations. >…While the nuclear-powered vessel's reactor cores were being refueled, a torpedo boat passed by at full speed, raising a large wave. The boat's crew either didn't notice the signal prohibiting rapid movement, or pretended not to. >As a result of the resulting large wave, as well as the resulting warping of the left-hand reactor lid, the reactor's compensating grid was lifted. A thermal explosion, resulting from a nuclear chain reaction, became inevitable. At the center of the explosion, radiation levels were approximately 90,000 roentgens per hour.
>>64295530>one of 3 submarine prompt criticalitys caused by lifting fuckups.This can't be real.
>>64295572Presumably this was one of the very same magic teleporting Japanese torpedo boats that had previously attacked the second pacific squadron in the Baltic sea and at the Dogger bank back in 1904.
>>64295572Russians and mysterious torpedo boats, its like pottery
>>64295525>Think the incidents China, Russia and N. Korea alone will yield.I for one cannot wait for the shit that will come out>Babchenko will get a fucking stroke when all the stuff on the current invasion gets out
>>64295578>To be finished for Vladimir Lenin's 100th anniversary, construction of K-320 was rushed. During a hydraulic test of the primary coolant circuit, the reactor became prompt critical and generated full effect for 10–15 seconds. The finding was that plugs on the primary test failed, so a powerful fountain of water and steam poured all around the K-308 the assembly shop. Twelve dockworkers near the reactor were killed immediately by the steam generated by the uncontrolled reaction and 150-200 others were directly contaminated. Most of the contamination was contained in the workshop but a cloud of radioactive gas and particulates contaminated up to 2000 people in the area around the shipyard.I'll go find the good Russian sources and translate, but give me time
>>64295578It is very real, and these are just the ones they admit to. I'm imagining responding to these incidents as an RP and pic related
>>64295636>I'll go find the good Russian sources and translate, but give me timeI'll never stop monitoring these threads, anon. Take your time. >It is very real, and these are just the ones they admit to.I can't imagine the stuff that happened in the Soviet Union in the period 1950-1960. Submarines are a whole different beasts alltogether.
>>64295669first i gotta translate the K-431 stuff, then we can get to K-320 and K-11
>The Pacific Fleet command staff was momentarily stunned. Just then, the duty officer rushed into the room where they were waiting for a concert by singer Edita Piekha , who had just arrived in Vladivostok , and reported a nuclear reactor explosion.>Within a few minutes, the Deputy Commander of the Pacific Fleet, Vice-Admiral Nikolai Yasakov, the head of the political department, Vice-Admiral Alexander Slavsky , and those accompanying them were on board the Typhoon boat, which was racing at full speed toward Chazhma Bay.>The shipyard they landed at was completely deserted. The commanding officers didn't believe the information they'd received, and in response to the local officer's rambling report, clearly in a state of shock, Yasakov launched into an angry tirade.>"What do you think you're saying?" he raged. "If there had been a nuclear explosion, this place would be a desert! Take us to the scene!">Soon, the admirals were faced with a horrific reality. A huge, jagged crater gaped where the K-431 nuclear submarine's reactor compartment had once been. Torn metal fragments and human remains littered the pier and shore. No one knew then that one of the largest radiation disasters in human history had occurred in Chazhma Bay. Chernobyl was just eight months away.
>>64295686>The development of peaceful nuclear energy began in the USSR in the second half of the 1950s. Nuclear power plants sprang up like mushrooms after rain across the country. Following the first power units of the Beloyarsk and Novovoronezh Nuclear Power Plants, facilities were built in Ukraine , the central part of the RSFSR, the Transcaucasus, and even the Arctic Circle.The first radiation accident on a nuclear submarine occurred on July 4, 1961. On that day, the crew of the SSBN-19, the first in the USSR, was on combat duty in the North Atlantic and encountered problems with the reactor's primary cooling circuit. Disaster was averted, but most of the sailors were exposed to radiation while responding to the accident. Nine died, and the rest were hospitalized and received various disabilities.>The authorities kept the incident a closely guarded secret. All survivors were required to sign non-disclosure agreements. The relatives of the victims were outright lied to. For example, the parents of one of the sailors were told their son had been electrocuted.>According to retired Captain First Rank Eduard Platonov, the weak point of all early submarine nuclear power plants was the steam generators. Almost every sea mission went by without a "Radiation Hazard" signal triggered by a malfunction in one of them. This meant a leak, spreading radiation to other compartments.>The failed steam generator was shut down, the consequences of the deteriorating radiation situation were addressed, and the nuclear-powered submarine continued its missions. Submarines arrived at the shipyard with half of their steam generators shut down.
>>64295696>This exact story happened to the K-11 nuclear submarine, which spent over a year at the Zvezdochka shipyard in Severodvinsk . After repairs were completed, on February 12, 1965, the submarine's reactor core was being refuelled there. Due to personnel negligence, an unauthorized reactor start-up occurred, resulting in a steam and gas release and a fire.>Once again, the Soviet Navy lost sailors. Officer Platonov was extremely lucky: a few hours before the tragedy, he was offered an extra ticket to a concert performed by artists from Leningrad at the local Palace of Culture, and he swapped shifts with a comrade.>"Upon arrival on the ship, a horrific scene met my gaze," Platonov recalled. "Through the opening of the removable sheet, I could see the charred and half-flooded reactor compartment, over which either smoke or steam, or perhaps both, were still billowing. I descended through the hatch of the eighth compartment into the aft compartments. There I saw an equally depressing scene.">The sixth, seventh, and eighth compartments were half-submerged in water contaminated with extremely high concentrations of radioactive substances. The plant grounds, piers, and port waters were contaminated—the reactor compartment was flooded while extinguishing the fire, producing 350 tons of highly radioactive water. Another 150 tons leaked into the turbine compartment. To prevent the submarine from sinking, the radioactive water was pumped overboard—right in the plant waters. The submarine remained afloat, but the reactor compartment had to be cut out. It was later sunk near Novaya Zemlya.
>>64295702>Another 20 years passed. In April 1985, the nuclear submarine K-431 sailed from Vladimir Bay in the Sea of Japan (southeast of Primorsky Krai) to Chazhma Bay to replace its spent nuclear fuel and moored to the north side of Pier 2 of Ship Repair Yard No. 30. Nearby were the monitoring and dosimetry vessel (MDV), the K-42 nuclear submarine, and a non-self-propelled floating technical base (FTB), while on the other side of the pier were two more nuclear submarines undergoing repairs and the MK-16 cutter.>The K-431's nuclear fuel reloading operation was to be handled by personnel from the Coastal Technical Base (CTB). Shortly after the submarine's arrival, CTB specialists inspected the submarine's condition and issued a readiness report. From that moment on, they became responsible for the safety of all operations. The reloading operation was supervised by Captain 3rd Rank Vyacheslav Tkachenko , who, as was later reported, was going through a rough patch.>The lightweight, durable hull was removed from the K-431 reactor compartment and special technological equipment was installed—a silumin (aluminum-silicon alloy) handling house called "Winter," which prevented precipitation from entering the compartment and maintained the temperature regime.>On August 9, 1985, the refueling crew successfully replaced the core of one reactor. However, an emergency occurred during the refueling of the second (aft) reactor. It began leaking, failing hydraulic tests, and a leak was discovered in the mating joint of the aft reactor's lid. This was caused by a foreign object lodged in the copper sealing ring.
>>64295711>This meant an increase in the nuclear fuel reloading period, as adjustments had to be made to the technological process.>In violation of instructions, the reloading team officers failed to report the incident. They decided to return to the submarine the next day and quietly fix the problem, so no one would know. The sailors were confident everything would go smoothly: they decided to lift the reactor lid, clean the ring, replace the lid, and conduct a hydraulic test.>"Shortly before 12:00 PM on August 10, they began lifting the reactor lid," notes Captain 1st Rank Alexander Gruzdev in his article "The Nuclear Disaster of the K-431 Submarine ." "On the K-431 and PTB-16, crews were stationed at their combat posts. At the submarine's control room, the main power plant operators monitored the reactor's performance using instruments. However, gross violations of nuclear safety regulations were committed during the work.">The "Atom" command, as is required for such an operation, was not issued to the ship. During installation of the dry detonation device, the retaining lock for the compensating grid was not secured.>So, on Saturday, August 10th, the reloaders set to work, calculating the distance the crane could lift the lid without starting a chain reaction. However, they were unaware that the compensating grate and the remaining absorbers were also being lifted along with the lid. A critical situation had arisen, and the further course of events depended on the slightest chance.
>>64295696>the steam generatorsFor being such a simple (conceptually) piece of equipment they really are a motherfucker. I got my uptake I mentioned earlier ITT because of one. Heat exchangers are THE fucky part of reactors.
>>64295572This version is even worse. At least with the first version, there was an attempt to have a safety device in place and they fucked it up. Here?>it was terrible, comrade. We were lifting the reactor lid with all control rods (as you know this is very typical) when all of sudden a torpedo boat. Why would there be a torpedo boat in the harbor full of boats? Why would he think to leave the harbor when we were doings very delicate operation? No, they never found out what boat was there.
>>64295719>And it happened,” Vice-Admiral Viktor Khramtsov, one of the investigators of the emergency, later wrote. “The cover with the compensating grid and absorbers was hanging on a crane, and the crane was on a floating workshop, which could swing in one direction or another, that is, raise the cover even further to the launch level or lower it.”"Events developed according to the worst-case scenario">Then, a fateful accident intervened: precisely at midday, a small torpedo boat, designed to retrieve training torpedoes after firing, unexpectedly burst into the bay from the sea. Despite warning signals from the watchtower, it passed through Chazhma at high speed, raising a large wave. It rocked the floating workshop with its crane, the reactor lid was ripped upward along with the entire absorber system, and the reactor itself entered the launch mode.>"A chain reaction occurred," Khramtsov described the moment of the disaster. "An enormous amount of energy was released, and everything in, above, and around the reactor was ejected. The refuelling house burned and vaporized, the refuelling officers were incinerated in the flash, and the crane on the floating workshop was torn loose and thrown into the bay."
>>64295731jesus fucking christ
>>64292422tl;dr>Russians do literally ANYTHING with nuclear material>funny things happen
>>64295731>The explosion was so powerful that the 12-ton lid, as if made of plywood, flew up to a height of two kilometers and crashed back onto the reactor, then fell onto the side of the submarine, rupturing the hull below the waterline. Survivors remember a single bright flash of light about six meters high, followed by orange-gray smoke rising above the reactor and a cloud forming, which began to move northwest.>Water from the bay gushed into the reactor compartment. Everything ejected by the explosion rained down on the hulls of the K-431, K-42, the floating fuel tanks, the submarine control ship, the bay waters, the piers, the plant, and the hills. Within minutes, everything around the exploding nuclear-powered vessel, caught in the wake of the release, became radioactive. The reaction lasted 0.7 seconds, and the radiation intensity exceeded 50,000 roentgens.>The explosion caused a massive fire in the reactor compartment, and a long, several-centimeter-wide crack appeared along the submarine's starboard side. Power cables from the shore were severed, plunging the compartments into darkness. Seawater began to leak through the cracks.>How did the disaster happen? The reactor's power increased because they removed the compensating grids along with the lid. It went supercritical, and the sudden release of energy caused the water to heat up and boil, explains Andrey Ozharovsky, an engineer, physicist, and expert on the Radioactive Waste Safety program, to Lenta.ru. "Water is a coolant and a moderator. After it evaporated, the nuclear reaction stopped. To some extent, this design limited the consequences of the accident."
>>64292422Russia can't into nukes, britbongs came dangerously close to min-maxxing their own Chernobyl disaster, and amerifats had a dumb civilian NPP designs based off of military specs.
>>64295525I imagine the Norks are probably incredibly anal on nuclear safety because they literally do not have the surplus population or budget to afford something like Chernobyl.
>>64295752>According to him, there was a very short energy release, a limited nuclear explosion.>"It was somewhat fortunate that [the explosion] occurred during the final stage of refueling, not the initial one," the specialist emphasizes. "Nuclear fuel is essentially natural uranium. And the fuel that operates at the end of the reactor cycle contains all the known killer isotopes from Chernobyl—iodine, cesium, strontium, etc. That is, the release itself was significantly smaller in scale than if the sailors had messed up at the initial stage of this operation, especially as there had not yet been time to install the safety apparatus.">Ozharovsky also notes that submarine bases in the future should be prepared for radiation accidents. This did not apply to Chazhma.>What happened next followed a worst-case scenario: untrained people began putting out the fire, he continues. "They didn't use all the required personal protective equipment. They said the dirt was spread throughout the military settlement. According to the instructions, there should be a radiation monitoring station where people are washed and tested. Radioactive substances primarily stick to clothing, shoes, skin, and hair."
>>64295752Do you have any diagrams of the 431's reactor model?
>>64295761>amerifats had a dumb civilian NPP designs based off of military specs.There was also the US Army's SL-1 reactor which suffered a fatal prompt criticality event and steam explosion.Everything about that reactor and the subsequent incident was straight up Soviet-tier in terms of safety, design, maintenance, and operator competency level.
It's insane to me that before I actually bothered to look things up the "big" nuclear accidents I knew of were Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and then later Fukushima, when Russians have been just blasting reactors in the open all this time.
>>64295781>Eight officers and two sailors died as a direct result of the explosion. All the nuclear fuel that didn't burn during the chain reaction was released into the air as highly radioactive particles. A smoke plume containing radionuclide aerosols extended up to 30 kilometers and was five and a half kilometers wide, traveling from southeast to northwest. In addition to all the ships moored in Chazhma Bay, it enveloped villages scattered along the coastline.>The K-431 crew, split in two by the explosion, found themselves in a critical situation. At first, many didn't realize the radiation hazard, and when they finally realized what had happened, not everyone was able to control themselves.>Some of the crew simply fled the submarine. The political officer took refuge in his cabin on the floating barracks, drank alcohol to neutralize the radioactivity, and passed out. The remaining sailors began fighting for their ship and their lives.
>>64295812>The fire was eventually extinguished with foam, but people were exposed to severe radiation.>The incident deeply shocked Captain 3rd Rank Tkachenko. He fell into a state of helplessness and could no longer perform his duties. Valery Storchak, who took command in his place, immediately assessed the situation and realized that the sailors near the exploded reactor would likely receive a lethal dose of radiation. The experienced submariner decided to reduce the number of casualties as much as possible, even at the cost of his own life.>Storchak immediately dispatched over 20 reloaders and "green" sailors who had served less than a year aboard the floating base to shore. The rest were divided into shifts, which immediately began decontamination work. With the help of the rescue vessel Mashuk, the PTB-16 was towed from Chazhma Bay to Putyatin Island.>Many sailors from K-431 and PTB-16 were hospitalized. Some were urgently transported to Leningrad.>"Captain 3rd Rank Storchak refused to leave," Gruzdev concluded. "'It's better to die at home,'" he explained. No one recorded the radiation dose the sailors received while fighting to keep the K-431 safe and decontaminating the PTB-16: at the time, the navy lacked the means to monitor high doses.
>>64295818>Among the first to rush to the aid of those in distress were the sailors from the K-42 submarine—not all of them, of course, but some of the crew. The division's duty officer, Dmitry Lifinsky, then a Captain of the Third Rank, jumped onto the deck, sounded the emergency alarm, and blew the "Radiation Hazard" signal. Activating the pumps, they began extinguishing the fire with three nozzles.>“There was no fear,” he admitted decades later.>It is likely that thanks to the prompt actions of this officer and his fellow soldiers, even greater troubles were avoided, and residents of Vladivostok, a city of half a million at the time, were not caught in the disaster zone."The sailors' remains were encased in concrete.">The nuclear disaster cleanup operation lasted over a month, involving approximately two thousand people—units from the Primorsky Flotilla, civil defense, chemical defense, marine engineering service, and military construction teams. An emergency effort was needed to prevent the sinking of the K-431, which, due to a crack formed by the explosion, was at risk of sinking to a depth of 15 meters. Ultimately, the submarine was grounded bow-first onto a coastal drainage dam. The reactor compartment was then filled with concrete, and the nuclear-powered vessel was towed to Strelets Bay.
>>64295823>The reactor debris and nuclear fuel elements scattered by the explosion were removed from the plant site, solid radioactive waste was buried, and repositories were constructed. Not only the irradiated asphalt but also the soil—up to a depth of a meter—was removed. Decontamination work was carried out throughout the entire area traversed by the radioactive plume. The spill site was cordoned off, but a significant portion of the contaminated water was simply swept away by ships.>According to official data, 913 people were exposed to radiation, including 290 at elevated doses. However, Captain 1st Rank Gruzdev, a researcher on the issue, believes that these figures are at least twice as low.>The expert supports his belief with an example: upon entering the contaminated area, each rescuer was given a Geiger counter to count the accumulated radiation dose. However, the next day, they were given a new Geiger counter, not the one they'd used the day before, which began counting radiation from scratch, and thus was done every day for the official calculations. Thus, the total radiation exposure remained unknown. The total number of people—both military and civilian—who were in the disaster zone remains a mystery.>However, it is known that the most severe radioactive contamination occurred over an area of approximately two square kilometers. Radiation levels there exceeded background levels by hundreds and thousands of times. It was in this area that a repository was established, where contaminated soil layers, as well as equipment, structural elements, and buildings, were removed.>In the early 1990s, those involved in the cleanup efforts and medical officers who served in the aftermath of the explosion nearly all died one after another. Those who survived developed cancer, nervous system disorders, and became disabled.
>>64295811Don't forget the Canadian incident that made Jimmy Carter anti nuclear
>>64295835
>>64295829>Much less information is available about the fate of residents of coastal villages. Fortunately, the radiation plume from the accident passed mostly through uninhabited areas.>"The radioactive trail spread across the peninsula and into the waters," Ozharovsky explains. "An important detail: a huge amount of cobalt-60 accumulated within the reactor structures themselves. It's an activation product. Apparently, this substance became one of the main contaminants. They say that in the first hours and days after the accident, the radiation levels and doses were absolutely catastrophic. I don't know if anyone has conducted research into the increasing cobalt concentrations in seafood caught there. After Fukushima, they've taken this seriously, and there's a whole monitoring system in place. But 40 years ago, since the accident was classified, I think the approach was more frivolous.">As the expert notes, while in the case of Fukushima it is known that contaminated saury resulted from the accident, there is no such data for Chazhma—there were no measurements.>It is known that in the village of Dunay (formerly Shkotovo-22), located on the shore of Strelok Bay, the growth of oncological diseases, compared to the early 1980s, has increased from two to eight people per year.
>>64295860>According to Valery Bulatov's classification , the emergency in Chazhma Bay is one of the five largest radiation disasters in the world.>"The consequences were truly serious; there are more children with cancer in those parts of the region than in other areas," one Primorye resident told Lenta.ru.>The remains of ten of the dead were collected literally piece by piece from various locations in the bay. Only the flagship engineer, Captain 2nd Rank Viktor Tseluyko, and the commander of the 3rd division of the BC-5, Captain 3rd Rank Anatoly Dedushkin, were identified. The remains were consigned to the flames in a furnace at one of the factories in Bolshoy Kamen.>The sailors' families wanted to collect the urns containing their ashes, but the Pacific Fleet command was unable to do so due to the high radioactivity. The symbolic ashes were divided into ten metal capsules and buried deep beneath a thick layer of concrete at a radioactive waste disposal site.>"Even as children, we were told that the sailors' remains were encased in concrete when they were buried—the radiation levels were through the roof," a local resident told Lenta.ru. "That made a strong impression on me back then. I also remember how new residents who came to the surrounding villages and towns were horrified when they heard stories about 1985. They knew nothing about it beforehand."
>>64295860Since lots of those rural costal peoples rely on shellfish for sustainability I'm sure the damage was "significant" Mushrooms at Pripyat, mussels at StrelokI wonder how many children were unknowingly poisoned by eating them.
>>64295876>To investigate the causes of the disaster, a commission was formed, headed by the Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Navy for Operations, Admiral Valery Novikov , which included naval specialists, prominent nuclear scientists, and representatives of a number of ministries and departments.>They determined that the explosion occurred due to a gross violation of the technological process by the personnel responsible for refueling the nuclear power bases. According to the commission's findings, the officials responsible for refueling the reactors had lost their sense of caution and foresight when handling fissile materials.>“All of us, the fleet’s leaders, were, to a greater or lesser extent, to blame for the disaster that occurred on the K-431,” Vice-Admiral Slavsky later admitted.>But the court found Tkachenko to be the main culprit among the survivors. He was given a suspended sentence of three years. However, the captain himself had been exposed to a significant amount of radiation and was in very poor health. By order of the USSR Minister of Defense Sergei Sokolov , all the officials who were, in one way or another, involved in the disaster were subject to disciplinary action.>The Chazhma accident demonstrated the dangers of small marine reactors and the dangers of nuclear fuel refueling, concludes Ozharovsky. The lessons of this accident are still relevant today, as nuclear submarines, surface ships—icebreakers, and the floating nuclear power plant—continue to operate. Refueling is still carried out regularly today.>The nuclear engineer-physicist points out that the nuclear fuel reloading procedure itself is extremely dangerous.
>>64295885>The authorities, understandably, tried to keep the accident and its aftermath secret. Even as perestroika was gaining momentum, only bits of information leaked out, and all the liquidators signed non-disclosure agreements. For example, Lifinsky, an officer on the K-42 nuclear submarine, remained silent about what happened for over 20 years. His role in the cleanup was revealed almost by accident. Unlike some others, Lifinsky didn't chicken out and run away, but he paid for his heroic act with his health.>The first detailed report of the nuclear disaster in Chazhma Bay was published only in 1991. According to Vice Admiral Khramtsov, if information about this accident had not been classified, Chernobyl could have been prevented.>"The accident at K-431 was caused by the indiscipline and recklessness of the specialists who overloaded the reactor," said the former commander of the 4th Submarine Flotilla of the Soviet Navy. "At the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, the same 'specialists' imagined they could do anything with the reactor, disabling all safety systems.">Khramtsov believed that the truth about the disaster in Chazhma was needed not only by the Soviet Union and its armed forces, but by the entire world.>"If they had provided information to all the specialists at Minatom, they probably would have thought three times before starting their tragic experiment at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant," the vice admiral reasoned.
>>64294890>>INES Level 7: Mayak 57 and ChernobylMayak/Kyshtym blows the other 3 out of the water , i absolutely agree that it's underrated, if anything it should have a class of its own, especially when shills say shit like > “There were only like 1200 ARS deaths from 48-86, not the several thousand I’ve been hearing from scaremongers overseas.">only 1200 ARS deaths
>>64295901>For his part, engineer and physicist Ozharovsky believes that the K-431 disaster is less related to Chernobyl than to other incidents. The same mistakes as the reloaders in Chazhma Bay were made during the construction of the K-302 nuclear submarine at the Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard in Gorky in 1970. As with the accident in Primorsky Krai, the spread of radioactive substances throughout the city was not stopped.>"If the K-431 accident hadn't been shrouded in secrecy and the commission's findings had been publicly disclosed, nothing would have changed at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant," Ozharovsky asserts. "It's a rhetorical ploy: the nuclear workers would have said that the people there were incompetent and violated all the rules, while everything is fine here."That's all I have for now, and this is recently compiled stuff this source is less than 3 months old
>>64295013I love the ps2 menu screen
>>6429578670 MW PWR, Echo 2 class.>>64295811There's worse than this. Much...much worse. Just ask Beria.>>64295835Carter was pro-nuclear, he just didn't want to tick off the anti-nuclear democrats and so didn't give any statements about how minor TMI was despite understanding that himself. >>64295902Overseas? The fucking Supreme Soviet said->>According to the transcripts and the conclusion of the expert council of the Supreme Soviet Committee on Ecology of the USSR from 1990, over the 40 years of the existence of the Mayak Production Association, about 10,000 employees fell ill with occupational diseases , about 4,000 died from acute radiation sickness so somewhere between a crispy +90% and a balmy 75% of all nuclear fatalities happened at Mayak Production Association in Russia alone.
>>64295812>The political officer took refuge in his cabin on the floating barracks, drank alcohol to neutralize the radioactivity, and passed out.And people say stalker is unrealistic
>>64295132>clean the people who fucked up with the radiation...clean as in clean up , or clean as in "clean up"?
>>64296009In case you want to print your own labels.
>>64295132I worked in a biochem lab for a while, P32, S35, C14, H3...not a lot of it just enough to tag things and find them later.Came in monday morning, grabbed the survey meter to make sure everything was OK.Everything was hot. Like, screaming hot. Cabinets, workbenches, even the door. So I set down the survey meter, walk to the door, slip off my shoes, step out of the lab, and call radiation safety. They come in force and I'm about to get the Silkwood treatment when they start scanning the lab themselves and everything is fine. Finally get a call from my lead investigator saying she'd come in over the weekend to catch up on some work and had contaminated the survey meter with P32 and asked me to put it in a box for 6 months to decontaminate and order a new one to use while we did that.
>>64293378>The Three No'sHere in Poland we had a commie-era joke:>don't think>if you think, don't say it>if you say it, don't write it>if you write it, don't sign it>if you think, speak, write it down and sign it, don't be surprised
There's not a ton on this, multisource, but I got what could>January 18, 1970, a radiation accident occurred at the Krasnoy Sormovo plant in Nizhny Novgorod during the construction of the K-320 nuclear submarine? During hydraulic tests of the first contour of the power plant of the submarine, when it was on the slipway of the mechanic assembly shop, an unauthorized launch of the VM reactor occurred. Having worked on an exorbitant power for about 10-15 seconds, it partially collapsed. Directly in the room was 150-200 workers (together with neighboring, separated by a thin partition - up to 1500 people). Twelve installers died immediately, the rest fell under the radioactive release. The level of radiation in the shop reached 60 thousand x-rays. Infection of the area was avoided due to the closure of the shop, but was discharged radioactive water into the Volga.>On that day, many went home without receiving the necessary decontamination and medical care. Six victims were taken to the hospital in Moscow, three of them died a week later with a diagnosis of “acute radiation sickness”. Only the next day, workers began to wash with special solutions, their clothes and shoes - to collect and burn. From all, without exception, they took a non-disclosure agreement for 25 years. On the same day, 450 people, having learned about what happened, resigned from the plant. The rest had to take part in the work to eliminate the consequences of the accident, which lasted until April 24, 1970. More than a thousand people took part in them. Of the tools - a bucket, a mop and a rag, protection - a gauze bandage and rubber gloves. The main victims were on the workers who were ordered to wash the premises of the workshop with water from hoses. By January 2005, 380 of the most than 1,000 participants had survived, by 2012 - less than three hundred. All disabled persons of group I and II. None of them received government awards for participating in the liquidation of the accident.
>>64296650>The radiation accident at the Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard occurred on January 18, 1970, during the construction of the K-320 nuclear submarine of Project 670 Skat.>During the construction of the K-320 nuclear submarine, while it was on the slipway, an unauthorized reactor start-up occurred. It operated at excessive power for approximately 15 seconds. This resulted in significant radioactive contamination of the workshop where the ship was being built. Approximately 1,000 workers were in the workshop. Radioactive contamination of the area was prevented due to the workshop being closed. That day, many went home without receiving the necessary decontamination treatment and medical care. Six victims were taken to a Moscow hospital; three died a week later, diagnosed with acute radiation sickness. The rest were required to sign a 25-year non-disclosure agreement. Only the following day did the workers begin to be cleaned with special solutions. That same day, 450 people, having learned of the incident, quit their jobs at the plant, while the rest were forced to participate in the cleanup efforts. The main cleanup efforts continued until April 24, 1970. More than a thousand people took part in them.
>>64296658>None of them received any government awards for their participation in the liquidation of the accident.>By January 2005, only 380 of the more than 1,000 participants remained alive. Their only benefits were a small allowance from the regional authorities (330 rubles per month until January 1, 2010, 750 rubles from January 1, 2010). They cannot receive a higher status as high-risk employees due to the lack of a law. The new owner of the Krasnoye Sormovo plant bears no de jure responsibility for the accident that occurred.>Women helped clean up the nuclear accident at Krasnoye Sormovo.>This isn't a commemorative date—the accident occurred 42 years ago (at the time of the first publication—Note). But we decided to write about it anyway, as the number of liquidators and eyewitnesses is dwindling with each passing year (by 2021, there are none—Note). It all happened in Gorky on January 18, 1970—long before the Chernobyl disaster. Thanks to the heroic work of the workers at Krasnoye Sormovo, the accident didn't become widespread. But its memory lives on, largely thanks to Alexander Zaitsev, who was a senior construction worker at the plant at the time. Today, our interviewee heads the "January-70" liquidators' society.
>>64296661>The Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard was working at a breakneck pace at the time. Its management had committed to supplying the Navy with two nuclear submarines per year.>And from the very beginning of 1970, a real race began. After all, it was a special year, the year of Lenin's anniversary. Two Skat-class submarines were under construction in one of the factory workshops. This project entailed equipping the boats with underwater-launched missiles. Behind a flimsy bulkhead, two more submarines were being prepared: the Som-class and the Semga-class. But it's the Skat that's the subject of discussion...>January 18th that year fell on a Sunday, so there were only 156 workers in the workshop. The rest were simply lucky. According to Alexander Zaitsev, on some busy days, up to a thousand people worked in the workshop.>Most of the workers were servicing the K-308 submarine, which was already being prepared for launch. Only 12 fitters were checking the reactor on the nearby K-320. It was on this submarine that the accident occurred.>The fitters were only supposed to test the strength of the reactor's primary circuit. To do this, they had to flood it with cold water.>The first circuit was closed with a technological casing, and this was the main mistake.>"According to the instructions, the casing should be removed during testing," explains Alexander Zaitsev. "And when it's removed, you can see the plugs installed on the circuit. According to the instructions, these should be red rubber-metal plugs that can withstand a pressure of 240 kilograms. But since everything was done at a frantic pace, they were on another submarine. They were transferred from one submarine to the other. During the tests, the K-320 only had white plastic plugs installed, which protect the reactor from dust getting inside. Naturally, they didn't hold up."
>>64296668>The casing flew to a height of 50 meters>As the tests began, the water pressure began to increase. Something unexpected happened: the pressure caused the compensating grid to shift—a miscalculation in the design and engineering documentation. As a result, the reactor operated at maximum power. At that moment, the water knocked out the plastic plug along with the casing. The casing rose upward and shattered the glass transoms, which were located 52 meters above the surface. A column of radioactive steam and water mixture erupted with it. A fire broke out in the workshop.>The reactor operated at maximum power for only 15 seconds, but this was enough to irradiate the workshop with doses that were hundreds of times higher than the maximum permissible levels.>"The installers were primarily to blame for the accident," says Alexander Zaitsev. "But they paid the ultimate price. Not a single one of the 12 installers survived. Seven of them died within a week.">Radiation levels are thousands of times higher than normal…>The installers were instantly exposed to high doses of radiation, incompatible with life. The exact doses are unknown. The dosimetrists kept quiet about the radiation levels in the workshop and the doses received. And since the dosimetrists themselves were the ones most exposed, there's no one to ask today...>However, it is known that at the time of the disaster the emission level was 75 thousand curies.>Erich Kokin, Chairman of the Nizhny Novgorod Branch of the Union of Chernobyl Survivors, helped us understand the meaning behind this figure:>"We consider the zone where people were not allowed to live to be an area with a contamination level of 25 curies or more. If the contamination level was 1 curie, people were not evacuated from that area, but they were given preferential living conditions. Because the natural background level is less than 1 curie."
>>64296676>"The fitters were literally crawling out of the shop," says Alexander Alexandrovich. "Their faces were terrifying to look at; they looked like they'd been scalded with boiling water. Incidentally, the report actually stated that several workers were scalded with boiling water while testing the dry cargo ship. At the factory, they tried to give them milk, but it immediately spilled back out.">The installers were sent on a special train to Moscow to the Tushino hospital, where the Chernobyl victims would later be taken.>There they died of acute radiation sickness—all except Vladimir Gorev and Vladimir Serdyuk. Incidentally, during the accident, Gorev followed instructions: he immediately sealed the nearest compartment of the submarine to prevent radiation from spreading.>"And Serdyuk was a giant of a man," recalls Alexander Zaitsev. "He was into almost every sport. He returned from Moscow as an old man, with his legs paralyzed and an amputated arm, and he didn't live long.">The Navy washed its hands of it>On January 21, an extended meeting of the plant's party and economic leadership was held. Our interviewee, Alexander Zaitsev, was also present. He recalls that the speech was given by Academician Anatoly Alexandrov, who oversaw the construction of nuclear submarines and later became president of the USSR Academy of Sciences.>The critical situation was briefly outlined at the meeting. The Navy at that time had personnel who could professionally handle the emergency, including the submarine crew. It had already been assembled and was at that time in Gorky. But Navy command forbade the sailors from approaching the site of the accident.>"Back then, it was like this: while a submarine was under construction, the Ministry of Shipbuilding was responsible for it," our interviewee explains. "And only during sea trials, when the flag was raised on the submarine, did it become part of the Navy's inventory."
>>64296684>Therefore, the only hope lay in the ordinary workers of the plant. It was to them, the civilians, that Academician Alexandrov appealed for help in eliminating the accident.>They decided to scrape the K-320, along with the entire workshop, replace its reactor, and complete its construction. After all, the submarine was 75 percent complete, and each submarine cost the state 50 million rubles.>“There were only three of us left.”>The first group of volunteers consisted of 18 people.>For the first time, on January 23rd, they were supposed to enter the workshop, thereby demonstrating their lack of fear of radiation. These were people they trusted, people they would follow. Among these eighteen was Alexander Zaitsev.>No one knew exactly what was happening inside the K-320. Even Academician Alexandrov couldn't guarantee the reactor wouldn't explode...>"When we entered, we were struck by the deathly silence, unusual for a workshop," Alexander Zaitsev recalled to NR. "And we also smelled a foul odor. Everyone knew perfectly well that radiation is odorless, but it smelled like something dead. Incidentally, we were all wearing masks made of Petryanov's protective fabric. And those of us who smoked couldn't stand it. They took off their masks and lit up. There were three non-smokers, including me. Everyone who lit up then died soon after. After all, they had inhaled deadly radioactive dust. Only three of us survived.">A glass of alcohol and off you go>And then the liquidation began. People worked around the clock, in three shifts. A worker's "one-time" exposure to the danger zone was approximately four hours. Before leaving, everyone was given a glass of alcohol—this protective measure was prescribed by Academician Alexandrov.
>>64295669>I can't imagine the stuff that happened in the Soviet Union in the period 1950-1960.I wish there was a way to find out what was happening in China during the 70s/early 80s, but you'd probably have to work for the CIA or DOE Intelligence.>>64295731Imagine being on that torpedo boat>Da, comrade, we must retrieve training torpedoes>Look, they are refuelling nuclear submarine, in grandpas day we did not have electricity, now we are superpower>What was noise?>...>Cyka>>64295818>"Captain 3rd Rank Storchak refused to leave," Gruzdev concluded. "'It's better to die at home,'" he explained.For all the incompetence that happens during these accidents, the sheer heroism on display by random individuals does warm my heart. I wonder what happened to him.
>>64296688>Besides alcohol, the aforementioned masks and ordinary factory overalls protected people from radiation. All of these were discarded after the worker left the ill-fated workshop and incinerated.>Not only the workers of Krasnoye Sormovo were sent to the liquidation operation, but also specialists from OKBM, Lazurit, and the electrical installation company Era—a total of about a thousand people.>This was perhaps the only nuclear accident in world history in which women were involved in the cleanup – crane operators, painters, insulation workers… They all received significant doses.>The cleanup itself consisted of scrubbing the workshop with mops. Then, dosimetrists measured these areas. If the level exceeded the permissible limit, they scrubbed again...>The garbage was incinerated, and the ashes were sent to the Semyonovsky burial ground. And the radioactive water was loaded onto a special vessel, the "Geroy Sidorov." It is said that the water from this vessel was discharged directly into the Volga.>The K-320 reactor had swelled considerably. To prevent a chain reaction, it was filled with boron carbide. It was then pulled out with great difficulty and sent to the Mayak shipyard. Its subsequent fate is unknown. Incidentally, it wasn't just the damaged submarine that had to be scraped out, but also the neighboring K-308. And the entire workshop, and even the shipyard grounds…>One more detail: while the liquidation was going on, behind a thin partition, two submarines of the Som and Semga projects were being quietly built...>Either an apartment or a black mark
>>64296695>Why did the factory workers, including women, agree to such “cleaning”?>The fact is, the liquidators were entitled to special benefits. Some were given apartments for their dangerous work. Everyone received a substantial salary increase. For example, our interviewee received 50 rubles for each emergency response mission—even though his salary was 185 rubles plus bonuses.>In addition, the liquidators at Krasnoye Sormovo were provided with therapeutic and prophylactic nutrition and were fed for slaughter.>So even those who knew about the consequences of radiation agreed. But there were also those who didn't...>"There was also a patriotic element," our interviewee recalls. "It was a different time. Many weren't working for their rent; they simply couldn't do otherwise. Mutual trust also played a big role. After all, in that first group of 18 people, everyone was my friend. For example, Vasily Tretyakov—a hero of the Great Patriotic War—he single-handedly put out a fire on a diesel boat. How could I abandon him? How would I have looked them all in the eye if I had refused?">Mikhail Yuryev, director of Krasnoye Sormovo, acted in a similar manner when he entered the damaged workshop on January 20th. When they tried to stop him, he said:>— If I don’t go, who will go then?>Workers who refused to "clean up" the damaged workshop were expelled from the party and fired from the plant. Moreover, they were given a "black mark," meaning they could not find employment at another enterprise. Despite such harsh measures, a mass exodus of workers from Krasnoye Sormovo occurred in 1970. After all, people who had been in the workshop began to become seriously ill and die. This could not be hidden from the factory workers.>"Those who quit, even with black marks, found work," says Alexander Zaitsev. "Specialists from Krasnoye Sormovo were highly valued."
>>64296722source 3>According to Alexander Zaitsev , the former technical director of construction for the K-320, the seventh nuclear submarine built at Gorky's Krasnoye Sormovo Shipyard, the accident occurred on a Sunday. In addition to the K-320, two more K-308 submarines were being prepared for launch in the workshop. The K-320s were intended for testing the reactor's primary circuit.>Zaitsev said the reactor's startup was delayed, and the accident was caused, among other things, by design flaws. Almost immediately, the reactor began operating at full power, but the primary circuit seals failed to withstand the pressure (they were plastic; workers forgot to replace them with metal ones), and the hatch cover blew off. A fountain of radioactive water and steam doused the workers (there were over 150 of them in the workshop at the time), the hull of the nearby K-308 submarine, and the workshop. The boiler didn't rupture, but the background radiation in the workshop reached 75,000 curies (up to 380 million curies were released into the atmosphere during the Chernobyl accident).
>>64296725>Participants recalled that for a quarter of a century, they were forbidden from speaking about what happened at the Gorky plant, having signed nondisclosure agreements. Voice of America* reported the accident the very next day.>Some media outlets reported that dozens of people near the reactor died. Zaitsev and Nekorkin refuted these claims – there were no fatalities on the day of the tragedy. Nekorkin reported six workers who were severely exposed and immediately transported to Moscow. Three of them died of ARS within a few weeks.>According to AZ's recollections, military dosimetrists worked in the contaminated workshop for 24 hours (20 of the first group, who measured radiation levels without protective equipment, subsequently died within a year and a half). Then the shipbuilders were asked to carry out decontamination themselves so that the submarine could be delivered ahead of schedule—in time for Lenin's 100th birthday. The sailors who were part of the future submarine's crew, who had decontamination skills and all the necessary equipment, were not allowed to participate in the workshop decontamination process. Painters, crane operators, and ship cleaners from the Krasnoye Sormovo participated in this work—according to various sources, between 1,000 and 1,500 people in total. These people didn't understand radiation and radioactive exposure and went into the workshop without protective clothing (they were issued only regular clothing, which was later confiscated and burned).>The liquidators were paid 50 rubles each and worked two four-hour days a week. They were given alcohol ad libitum, with claims that it had an antiseptic effect on the body. The radioactive sludge was simply washed away with water and rags, and the contaminated water was then poured into the Volga River. According to the Nizhny Novgorod anti-nuclear movement "Yantar 70," the decontamination work lasted three months, with the liquidators working in three shifts.
>>64296733source 4>The first Project 670 Skat submarine was completed in 1966. However, we are interested in the seventh, the K-320. It was laid down in 1968, and all work had to be completed by April 22, 1970, no matter what. It was the government's gift to the people for the centenary of Lenin's birth. Naturally, work was often carried out in a rush.>By early 1970, the K-320 was almost ready. A massive hull, nearly a hundred meters long, was on the slipway. A fully operational nuclear reactor had already been installed inside. Next door, through a bulkhead, another similar submarine, the K-308, was being assembled. It was still far from complete, however, while the K-320 had a reactor primary circuit test scheduled for Sunday, January 18.>They say the tests hadn't even begun properly. When about 150 workers were in the workshop, a sudden hissing sound and a loud bang were heard. A twisted submarine hatch shot up to a height of about 60 meters, raining down chunks of metal. Immediately after, a fountain of water and steam doused those present. As it soon became clear, the workers had been contaminated with radiation in doses close to lethal levels.>Twelve people died at the scene. However, this is not certain because, as was common practice at the time, people were kept quiet about such incidents, and the internet had not yet been invented. A strong radioactive release was detected by foreign monitoring stations, which immediately informed the Soviet side, and then by radio.
>>64296745>However, according to the Soviet newspapers, nothing out of the ordinary had happened. So what if a few shipbuilders were scalded by steam from a bulk carrier's boiler—everyone has. The fact that nuclear submarines were being assembled at Krasnoye Sormovo was a secret. Few of Gorky's million-strong population suspected that toys more serious than river barges were sitting on the slipways.>Nevertheless, an internal investigation was, of course, conducted. It turned out that a confluence of two factors—a design error and human negligence—was to blame. As a result, supposedly due to technical flaws, the nuclear reactor spontaneously restarted without control and immediately reached nearly full power. Perhaps nothing serious would have happened in this scenario if one of the workers in the primary circuit hadn't installed temporary plastic plugs instead of the metal ones designed for them.>As a result, the reactor operated at maximum power for about 10 seconds, deformed, released excess pressure in the form of a powerful jet of radioactive steam, and stopped.The photo is for illustrative purposes only.>Incidentally, the role of the plastic plugs installed by someone is not entirely clear. It is believed that if metal plugs had been installed in the reactor's primary circuit as intended, there would have been no release—they were designed for the same or even greater pressures. However, some believe that it was the plastic plugs, which were the first to fail, that partially relieved the pressure and prevented the reactor from exploding.
>>64296750>A criminal case was opened, and several mid-level managers were found guilty. However, the case was soon hushed up, with the explanation that errors had arisen during the design stage, and all those fired were reinstated.>Be that as it may, an emergency occurred that no one was allowed to talk about. Moreover, a major celebration was just around the corner—Lenin's centenary.>"For 24 hours after the incident, we weren't allowed into the workshop. The dosimetrists were working there. And then on January 20th, we were invited to a meeting. Academician Alexandrov, our minister Butoma, and the plant's director Yuryev were present. Academician Alexandrov, the creator of this reactor, chaired the meeting. He was straightforward and spoke frankly: 'Guys, something bad has happened. But you're shipbuilders! We need to help quickly decontaminate the submarine. We absolutely must deliver this submarine on time. After all, this is a special year...'" Alexander Zaitsev, chief builder of the shipbuilding department at the Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard, later recalled .>According to him, the plant's workers were offered 50 rubles for a day shift on the team tasked with cleanup operations. They were also given plenty of food and alcohol—it was believed this would help combat the radiation. Everyone was also required to sign a 25-year non-disclosure agreement.>"A bucket, a mop, and a rag—they washed the sides of the submarine, the slipways, the floors, and the walls of the workshop with them. And the dosimetrists checked after us. If there's no radiation, good, but if there's a crackling sound, you have to wash it all over again," Zaitsev noted.>He also said that radioactively contaminated water was dumped into the Volga. The liquidators were dressed in overalls and given special face coverings. They were required to work four hours. For two such shifts, they earned 100 rubles each. A significant amount of money at the time, especially for ordinary workers.
>>64296755>"...Only three survived... Now I understand perfectly why most of us died... We were the first to enter the enormous workshop and froze. Dead silence. The silhouettes of gigantic submarines. The atmosphere, frankly, was eerie. In our excitement, most of us lit up, naturally removing the bandages from our mouths and noses. I don't smoke. I breathed through gauze. We now know how deadly radioactive dust is when it gets into the lungs. Back then, no one even thought about it, " Zaitsev recalled.After the Cold War>Technically, the submarine was delivered on time. The reactor was replaced, the hatch was replaced, and by April 22, the K-320 was ready. A year after all the testing, it joined first the Northern Fleet, and then the Pacific Fleet. In 1984, the vessel nearly sank near the Mariana Trench, sinking well below its maximum depth, but the crew managed to raise it.>Like the other ten Project 670 Skat submarines, the K-320 was decommissioned in the early 1990s and soon disposed of.One of the submarines served in the Indian Navy.>The Krasnoye Sormovo shipyard is still operational. In fact, it's one of the largest Russian yards of its kind. However, it doesn't currently assemble military vessels, preferring instead to build bulk carriers, oil tankers, and passenger ships.>Regarding those involved in the cleanup of the radioactive fallout, six years ago it was reported that less than a third of the more than 1,000 people survived, all of them disabled. As a form of support, the state provides them with a monthly supplement of approximately $20, the equivalent of $20, along with vouchers to sanatoriums and a 50% discount on utility bills.
That's all the submarine crap for now. I find it funny that we started the OG thread with that, and then kind of got distracted by Russia's gigantic pile of fuckups at Mayak and wandered off, but we're back and in depth now.
>>64296766It really is their specialty. Also, this shit is absolutely terrifying. We talked earlier in this thread and the trenches/foxholes in the red forest thread about the crazy radiation dose needed to kill someone quickly. And then we just get these back, to back, to back "oh, and a dozen people died in less than a week" reports. It's mind boggling.
>>64296684>"Back then, it was like this: while a submarine was under construction, the Ministry of Shipbuilding was responsible for it," our interviewee explains. "And only during sea trials, when the flag was raised on the submarine, did it become part of the Navy's inventory.">Therefore, the only hope lay in the ordinary workers of the plant. It was to them, the civilians, that Academician Alexandrov appealed for help in eliminating the accident.NOT MY PROBLEM LMAO
>>64295730>Why would he think to leave the harbor when we were doings very delicate operation? No, they never found out what boat was there.Probably the captain of it had Party connections or was the son of a high party official.
I’ll get some stuff together on K-27 (nicknamed Nagasaki by her crew), at some point. Maybe tomorrow.
>>64293302>US plants have procedures for how to rip all the batteries out of the cars in the employee parking lot like a nuclear tweaker and wire them up to kick start system components in a full loss of off-site power scenario.Fuckin hell
>>64292979>>64295772>>64295525Ehhhh....I have my doubts.We know what reactors the North Koreans have. They have an old russian water research reactor from the 50s that we know they aren't running full scale as they haven't been sold the fuel for it since the USSR collapsed. They have a home grown light water design that's....being constructed, but it's not done yet.That just leaves pic related, a Magnox reactor they built from 79-83. From what we know they used the public 1954 Atoms for Peace design so this is a direct copy of Calder Hall/Chapelcross's reactor design. No proper containment. This is their plutonium workhorse and probably the single largest producer of their fissile inventory. Not a bad choice I guess, Norky can't do anything too fancy, the design isn't exactly hidden and I mean...out of the plutonium Gen 1 designs the Magnox is definitely the safest option, I don't trust them to handle water graphite and we know air graphite is a shite idea so whatever. Still I'd hardly call it fail safe, water leaks in it can surge, air leaks in it can catch fire. I'm sure someone here will tell me what running one of these things for 50 years with North Korea tier matinence will do and how badly they'd have to screw up for China or South Korea to sniff it, but it's not a failsafe design I know that. We also know from the fact they've been leaking pollutants into the rivers they're doing old school chemical seperation instead of centrifuges. Can't stuxnet 1940s tech I guess. For all I know there isn't a single goddamn transistor in that plant and the reason nobody stopped them is because they went so oldschool there wasn't any sabotage option that didn't involve blowing shit up. I respect the hustle, but also please for the love of god I hope there's no nitrate involved. If any villages vanish off maps we know what happened.
>>64291858Oddly enough, we have a few people on /k/ that legitimately work in the trade, and in different areas to boot. We're generally careful not to get too specific (particularly those of us with clearances), but you'll find that most of us don't mind talking about our work, mostly.>>64293241Interesting note on the chelation. As for the low limits on the Radiacodes, it makes sense for the most common use cases. I don't expect home gamers to be fucking around with the sorts of things that are out of scale for a Radiacode, and the ones that do are probably looking at other gear.>>64293302My understanding (I was not there) is that they disabled the passive cooling in #1 because they were concerned about cooling too fast and spiking reactivity. I don't want to take anything away from the operators in #1, they were rock stars for the most part, but second guessing automatic safeties defeats the point of having automatic safeties.>>64295132>most nuclear protective clothing is just to keep you cleanThis is something that folks not in the trade really don't understand. For routine work in contaminated areas where I'm at, it's yellow cotton. I've had a few jobs where some shit went really sideways and I was wearing a wetsuit, triple anti-C's, and a respirator. I've never worn Tyvek coveralls like the guy in the pic for nuc work, but I've absolutely worn them for asbestos remediation (required) and for a few other jobs that were absolutely shitty, but I'd honestly rather be in cotton. Tyveks suck, and they suck worse inside a reactor in the summer.>>64295541I won't speak for the private industry guys, but in the public sector, we fuck up. You won't hear about it if you're not at risk, and you've never been at risk so far. Even we're not at risk for the most part. That's why we don't tell you about it. You have enough to worry about. It would be irresponsible of us to worry you with more shit that has zero effect on you and little effect on us.
>doesn't TASTE radioactive
>>64295731>the reactor itself entered the launch modeNow there's a phrase you dont want to use
