In order for the Russian SMO to succeed and occupy the entirety of Ukraine in 2 weeks they'd have needed an invasion force of at least 1.5 million men which is the same amount manpower required for the soviet invasion of Manchuria (roughly the size of Ukraine) back in WW2 that wiped out the main IJA force stationed in China. But Putin somehow thought he could pull it off with just 190k men while being outnumbered by the defenders?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
>>64284886the thing is monke and friends were high off their own supply and genuinely thought all of Ukraine would fold just like that, and then were too far in to not run back home
Russia is making a huge push and will finish the war by end of October. It's over.
>>64284886Anon, the first part of the invasion relied on the hopes that Ukraine pulls a ANA/2014 crimea and there being a lack of western support. It was a gamble that lead to the consistent goal post moving. He was also Hoping that he can copy what the us did in Iraq where bush sent less soldiers than what was recommended and still succeeded.
>>64284896The ANA folding like paper after the US withdrawal of Afghanistan gave them the false impression that Ukraine would fold just as quickly since Russian nuclear deterrence would have prevented direct US and NATO intervention. They were right with the latter but not the former.
>>64284886The problem is that even with those numbers that Russians would have shit the bed thanks to logistics crunch and overall corruption in the supply side.
>>64284901More like Putin wanted another Georgian invasion but on a country 8x bigger.
>>64284908vatnik propagandist on pol and other places were making connection in how succesful ukraine invasion was in early days to iraq one. Then they stopped and started shifting goalpost
>>64284908That's especially retarded being as though several points of the Georgian invasion were touch and go for the vatnigs
>>64284905With that much "mass", no amount of Drones or artillery would have stopped them from punching through the Ukrainian defense lines in Donbass that are still standing today. Don't forget that US and NATO's battle plan for Ukraine summer offensive was to concentrate all their forces into one point in order to punch through Russian defense lines, expecting at leas 30%+ casualties.
>>64284908Which is funny considering that the Georgian invasion had similar fuckups on Russia's side of things. Like the fact that they even had an entire column of trucks that ran out of gas just sitting on the road for hours on end.
>>64284934I mean it would've been worse for Ukraine for sure, but punching through the lines is irrelevant if you can't take advantage of it. Russia would've needed far more exercises involving those troops, as well as some military reforms to make it capable of handling such operations.
>>64284934i understand that russian lives are worthless but what's the point of sending tens or hundreds of thousands of men into prepared defense lines when other areas of the border were completely defenseless?they faced no resistance from the north and the east, they could've outflanked much of the ukrainian army.in the end even with the men they initially deployed they could've taken kiev if their logistics wasn't so fucked up, it's ridiculous that an army like russia doesn't think of bringing fuel and food and batteries to sustain their advance, they could've ended the war in march 2022.
>>64285060Literally the Russians did in WW2 to defeat the germans.
>>64285060>with the men they initially deployed they could've taken kiev if their logistics wasn't so fucked upThey could have completed the encirclement, unlike what actually happened. But taking a city of that size is a huge undertaking and there are very few historical instances of it happening.Russians couldn't even capture Kharkiv or Sumy and took months to take Mariupol.
>>64284934The problem with Russia is logistics.They couldn't even maintain the fuel for their armoured push into Kyiv with the numbers they had.
>>64284934Anon, they can't use their "mass", that the problem, their logistic can barely support what they have now.
>>64284886The Russians already had so much trouble with the force they initially sent that there were whole columns out of gas and food. They were clearly already at their maximum logi capacity. Multiplying the size of their force by almost 9x would have absolutely ruined them. I don't think it's so much that they thought they could get away with sending less troops so much as it was that they couldn't manage more. You have to remember that Russia is not the USSR. They are simply not capable of feats the Soviet Union may have been able to pull in it's heyday. I'd wager the Russians would have literally gassed themselves out MUCH earlier with FAR larger columns just sat stuck on the highways. The ONLY value it would've had is if a force that size could intimidate Ukraine into immediate capitulation. Just sending a larger force is only a valid answer for a country that can support that larger force. If they'd sent your 1.5 million man force the war probably would've ended in the first year due to total logistics collapse on the Russian side. They wouldn't have just been able to directly multiply their logi force, they would've had to increase it beyond that and they clearly just flat did not have the ability to do so.
>>64284886That estimate/comparison makes no adjustment for modern weaponry and the relatively large force projection that a few soldiers can wrought on attackers
>>64285155And that’s without saying anything about the ineptitude of the russian military that many posters have pointed out
>>64284949Was it Georgia too where the attack was delayed by a command vehicle running into a ditch and breaking its radio?
>>64285065This was the whole strategy in ww2, you ran out of bullets before we ran out of men, literal animals in Muskovya
>>64284928
>>64285155As an example I’m thinking of the video of ukranians ambushing a russian column with a single nlaw, hitting a lead vehicle and stopping the entire advance of 10+ armored vehicles
>>64284898yeah a huge push to bankrupt themselves completely and win the darwin award
Putin and co thought parking tanks and dropping vdv near capital will scare ukr govnt enough to surrender or to escape to Lviv or Poland and then everything will collapse allowing ez bloodless occupation like Crimea-2014 for most of Ukr. early on rus prop narratives were "Zelensky is already in Warsaw" and "there is no more AFU", also cope maps with big red arrows and epic pockets. by the end of March they finally realized that plan failed, a bit later they started recruiting convicts and everyone in Donbabwe
>>64284886Russia had been spending billions bribing the Ukrainian military to fold, but the GRU officers were convinced an invasion was retarded and wouldn't ever happen, so it was largely embezzled into mansions and yachts in the west.
>>64284904the nook thing is a just an excuse. reality is what has been observed consistently in the last 80 years since at least ww2. US is a pozzia simp. Whenever they get in a dangerous situation because of their own stupidity US consistently will interfere and bail them out which makes this whole regional war quite an dilemma. No matter how much east euros bleed out ziggers, wreck their economy and even ack monke, the zombie empire cant truly die as US is their ultimate life insurance. Its so extreme americans would rather station troops in siberia along the china border then ever risk places like amur-vladivostok being reclaimed by changs
>>64285065in ww2 they had US and UK to take care of the faggy logistics to support their lemming spam. To put it into perspective without food aid alone by late 1942 there would have been a general famine raging through all fronts and rear as with the capture of ukraine vatnik union lost about 1/3 of its food production
>>64285151>You have to remember that Russia is not the USSR.yes it is. same shit they pulled in their special military disaster is word for word exactly what was going on in winter war. Before that you find similarities in WW1 and the russo-japanese wars Stop confusing ww2 east front performance or red alert 2 depiction of fictional soviets as something normal for vatniks. As they were roided up by gullible american idiots solving their systematic problems for them
>>64284886he didn't want to occupy the entirety of ukraine he wanted to install his own government and take only the eastern parta failed buffer state that can only cause problems for the EU is much more practical
because in 2014 they were extraordinarily successful and basically massacred AFU whenever they wanted to with AFU being so incompetent they routinely called airstrikes on themselves and were goaded into barraging their own columnssomehow they did their homework in those 8 years though
They probably intended to make up for the lack of overall military strength with the shock of the capital assault and decapitation attack.
>>64284898>Russia will finish the war by end of October>but there is a nuance...
>>64285190>@historylegends
>>64284886The Ruskies WERE very close.The initial days of the war were fucking uncertain if they'd capture Kiev and kill the leadership in the country, since they still had relatively normal equipment before they were reduced to motorbikes and donkeys.If Agent Orange was in charge, I think Ukraine would have lost more territory, if not lost outright, because the EU can only follow after the US instead of leading the charge themselves.So they'd have none of the military equipment sent to them that gave us footage of Russian helicopters, tanks, and jets being destroyed.We are now laughing at Russian incompetence, but I will never forget the uncertainty in 2022 because all the Ruskies would have needed was for the West to "compromise" and make them do nothing other than issue "strong condemnations."
>>64285193>Before that you find similarities in WW1 and the russo-japanese warsAlso that one article from 1854 that gets posted occasionally, attributing the Russian empire's shortcomings in the Crimean war to institutional problems which sound very familiar to a present-day reader (and were surely not new even when it was written).It seems like the true redpill on the Russian revolution is that all the bloodshed didn't fundamentally change anything.
>>64285193My post wasn't me saying "USSR STRONK!!!", it was more along the lines of "holy shit modern Russia's military logistics is exceptionally awful". However incompetent you believe the USSR to have been modern Russia is notably worse. Modern Russia has all the corruption and none of the institutional power behind it to force things to work at least somewhat.This whole conflict is basically Putin trying to convince the world Russia is still strong like USSR and it's blown up in his face proving to everyone they're significantly weaker than they want us all to believe. The entire point is modern Russia couldn't hope to sustain OP's 1.5 million man force.
>>64285151Not to mention that logistics suffers from the tyranny of the rocket equation to some degree. Logistics trucks need fuel too, the drivers need food, and you need more logistics to take care of those, so the more logistics you have, the more logistics you need. A 10 times larger force doesn't need 10 times more logistics, it needs more
its something that really fascinates me is how much material and men russia lost in this war, and after 4 years of it theres no way any sane person will call this any kind of victory. i know russians like to talk shit on the intrenet because they really have nothing else to bring them anything in real life (lashing out is better/safer then confronting corrupt authority so they do this instead), but whats amazing to me is how you saw russia enter this war with full on propaganda about how advance their army war, all the latest tech, advanced training, etc, and now after 4 years they are just sending infantry wave attacks to make 1-2km advances every few months. incredible
>>64285274>Also that one article from 1854 that gets posted occasionally, attributing the Russian empire's shortcomings in the Crimean war to institutional problems which sound very familiar to a present-day readerthe most celebrated Russian literature is largely about the diversity of angles in which Russia sucks, the most celebrated political systems in Russia are about keeping producing inspiration for Russian artists
>>64284886Russia miscalculated, then improved, and is know winning. Sure, they thought Ukrainians wouldn't be stupid enough to fight back, but since they did they will now have their entire male population decimated so the other globohomo client states learn to not poke the bear.
>>64285418>russia miscalculatedunderstatement>then improvedno lol>and is now winningno lol>t-they thought ukrainians w-wouldn't be stupid enough to fight backyou're either retarded or you're a loser so desperate for attention that you pretend to be retarded online, which is it?
>>64285430I looked at a map and saw three cauldroons with zizzling pozzians inside.
>>64285430The snail has already gotten past Berlin, anon.
Did you know that in the 90s some scammer pretending to be a literal magician got rusniggers to "charge" the water with his "magical energies" by placing bottles with water right in front of TVs.That's the kind of context might explain the kind of magical thinking required to spam shit like >64285418 >64285430(no (You)s for you, negro)
Were there plans for the establishment of forward supply depots and the shuttling of supply convoys?
>>64285430Buddy the map isn't proving your point >>64284898
>>64285455Its pointless showing the parts where there is no fighting going on, show only the donbas
Oh, it's that shill who types like an underage retard and always adds "lol" and "lmao" trying to make it look like he's not seething.You can always tell it's him by the typing style.
>>64285451>Don't you ever get tired of this lmaoAs long as we get to see russians suffering gruesome, lonely deaths - no, not anytime soon.
>and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I've been found out.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHALike clockwork.To the conscription office, pidorashka
>>64285430and russia has been losing strategically nonstop for 2 yearsalso>losing landyeah, less than ww1 levels of land exchange lmao>>64285451>russia isn't winning fast enoughno, they're just not winning, period.>>64285469>p-please zoom in to the tiny part of the map where russia can still provide a little pressurenot helping your case
>>64284898>It's over.Again.
>>64285500>timmyyou're an obvious zoomer outsider and everyone instantly notices when you sperg out.
>>64285091>couldn't even maintain the fuel>oil and gas countrySo what is thier retardation? No fuel trucks? I know of construction companies that have better fleets.
>>64285521He really types like a teenager and always spams the same low-IQ shit like "russia's winning lol".I wonder if he's actually underage or just mentally stunted.
>>64285418>they thought Ukrainians wouldn't be stupid enough to fight backUkrainians have hated Russians for many generations. Who are you?
>>64285531refining it into useful product probably.and storage, as ukraine has hit a ton of storage sites meant to be buffer, meaning fuel has to be trucked out from much further away directly to the front.
>>64285533Again, why not both?
>>64285533he certainly types like a zoomer.
>>64285536>fuel has to be trucked out from much further away directly to the front.But even in the first days, the column stalled out.
The presence of pipelines and huge central heating systems appears to be hindering the development of fuel logistics.
>>64284886They could have taken Manchuria with 190k men, maybe less. The Japanese were completely spent at point. They had no supplies, no morale, were dying of disease and starvation. It was a mercy killing.
>>64285546calm down zigger, is your job on the line or something?
>>64285451When you call it 'desert storm on steriods' being slower than a snail is a worthy thing to say. But I'll give you an example. In the War of 1812, the USA invaded Canada and got beaten by fudds and beaver fuckers. Then the Brits finished off Napoleon and started coming over. The Brits took territory of the USA and remade a former colony. They took land, so the Brits won, right? Well then the peace deal came and everything went back to where it was, the land was given back to USA and everything was fine.See? Taking territory doesn't work if your ultimate goals aren't achieved.
>>64285616It would have been Desert Storm on steroids had the Ukrainians folded like the Iraqis did, instead of fighting tooth and nail for each trench line and foxhole like the Chinese and North Koreans did back in Korea.
>>64285193>ww2 east front performanceYou mean hordes of unwashed pesants getting forced to run at machine guns, getting mowed down, and the mobiks who retreat get shot by the comissars?
>>64285691They didn't fight tooth and nail, they executed a surprisingly well organised defence in depth and picked apart the Russian columns when they got overextended and ran out of fuel
>>64285710How do you explain Bakhmut then?
>>64285555>Japanese were completely spent at pointThey were exhusted from all the raping.
>>64285716Nta but I can. Bakhmut was meant to be a road hump for Russia. The idea was to hold Russia back a week or so in order to prepare the defences further back in a much better position. Instead Russia failed to push through and it became a symbol of resistance for Ukraine. So they ended up reinforcing it more than they expected to. Wagner was deployed so Russia could claim nobody fell taking it. Which then eventually caused the Priggy Heresy. Which had he had the balls to pull it off, could have been brilliant for Ukraine. Sadly, no.
>>64285555>>64285725So exhausted that still managed to inflict 80k+ casualties onto US troops in Okinawa.
>>64285163He was pretty close, it was more like Desert Storm on krokodil
>>64285157Russian command had to borrow satellite phones from the reporters covering the conflict to communicate with their forces.
>>64285739Those were fresh crack troops straight out of the Ninja Academy.
>>64285739>yokoyamaWhat a dumb name. No wonder they lost.
>>64285761The Village Hidden in the Hills
>>64285739>the elite troops with the best weapons on Okinawa were the same as the unsupplied conscripts on Manchuria.The Japanese were utterly steamrolled in Manchuria. They were totally done. Hundreds of thousands got captured in a matter of days, and it's not like they surrendered with the understanding it was an easy out. There were summary executions, torture, and many thousands spent the rest of their lives getting worked to death as slave labor in the USSR.You're comparing apples and oranges. This conflict is nothing like what went down in Manchuria.
>>64284904>ANA folding like paper after the US withdrawal of Afghanistan gave them the false impression that Ukraine would foldNothing to do with afghanistan.Reasons are purely internal russian. Putin and his system are believers in "color revolutions" theory and lack of agency for 99.9% of people. I.e "give cash and orders to key figures and our will will be done. everyone else either won't care what kind of rag is on the flagpole, or would be a puppet of our puppets".By the start of invasion they thought that everyone who had to be bought was bought and ordered what to do, and there will be no county-wide organized resistance.It's entirely a product of thought of mediocre ex-glowie, surrounded by enablers.
>>64285151The USSR collapsed because they couldn't afford to take care and properly use all the shit they had to begin with, because their understanding of economics was terrible and they couldn't understand there was a problem until it was too late.Then their political system tried to correct course too little too late and it collapsed.Soviet economics were very focused on production and assumed making more of anything was always good. They didn't use the notion of added value which means that if they had doubled their car production they viewed this as a good thing, even if they could not afford to use and maintain all those cars. When using the notion of added value there's a demand in cars and making more than necessary is wasteful. This plus their inability to understand the demands and incentives of their own population meant that they ran out of steam trying to maintain the largest tank, artillery and nuclear forces of the world. When they tried flexing their muscles again the Kursk sank and they couldn't even retrieve it themselves, after trying and failing they had to hire a Dutch company to do it.
>>64285531The issue is organization and doctrine. The 40km traffic jam was caused by whatever logistics officer ordering trucks repeatedly onto that road without knowing what's going on at the front. Of course there will be a traffic jam if you order a million trucks into a traffic jam. The fact that the traffic jam was 40km long shows Russia has the basic resources to run a logistics train, resources require organization and you need to practice that system once it has been set.
>>64284886Obviously he thought the modern technology would've bridged the gap.
>>64284898
>>64285803>The USSR collapsed becauseYou need to watch the Netflix documentary 'Turing Point', esp episode 7 and 8. Everyone on /k/ should just start at episode 1.
>>64285839>'Turing Point'??
>>64285862Sorry: Turning Point: The Bomb And The Cold War https://share.google/St1GNYtQ14j8Vq9SQ
>>64285181>a bit later they started recruiting convicts and everyone in DonbabweDonbabwe "recruitment" started less than a week before invasion, not after. Under the guise of "a planned military exercise for reserve personnel, nothing unusual, they'll be back after two weeks of sort of camping".Speculation is, lpr/dpr had an "agreement" with russia to have a large battle ready standing army just in case for something like that in exchange for russian gibs, but didn't really fulfill their end of the bargain. Forced mobilization was something like doing your assignment night before the due date.Also worth remembering falseflags of "here look, hohols crossed the russian border and attacked fsb outpost in rostov oblast - with this lone btr without troops or markings; and here - they bombed an empty uaz of some important dpr dude on an empty parking lot(under lot of cameras)!"; and a leak(or "leak") of attack plan(called "mongoose's lunge" lmao, if anyone remembers).Something was clearly afoot, but few could imagine. I personally though that there would be a falseflag involving mobilized of donbass, akin to "attacking russian peacekeepers" in georgia - claim hohols shelled/bombed a camp of peaceful "exercising" mobiks, invoke "mutual defence agreement" and roll into donbass in full force to "liberate republics up to their lawful borders". Might have been more successful than what happened in reality.
>>64285785American's lost several times to a -Cock in 1812.
>>64285739>Kwantung Army is stripped of men and material for years to reinforce Japanese positions elsewhere against US forces>at the tail end of the war the USSR, backed and supplied by the US, attacks a skeletonized and underequipped Kwantung army and defeats them
>>64286062So how come the US never managed to achieve such swift victories against Japan while being supplied by the US despite facing way less Japanese troops?
>>64285408>the most celebrated Russian literature is largely about the diversity of angles in which Russia sucks, the most celebrated political systems in Russia are about keeping producing inspiration for Russian artistsThe greatest Russian achievement is profound suffering, alcoholism, and epic literature on suffering and alcoholism.
>>64285176Why are jeets of all stripes & dogmas so bottomlessly fecund?
>>64284886if we take the level of military power of ww2 and the weapons id say 2.2 million to 2.8
>>64285839>>64285866>seriously recommending a Netflix doc What has /k/ come to?
>>64284886Well, the 1991 Gulf war was over a million men. The 2003 invasion was significantly smaller. Shit can be optimized. The Russians are just stupid.
>>64286098Turns out amphibious operations against a dug-in, supplied, and reinforced enemy that fights to the death are much more difficult than maneuver warfare against an operationally degraded enemy who sees a 20% desertion rate once combat starts and whose government surrenders to the USA and stops fighting.
>>64286098>huge land borderVs >lots of small islands with heavily entrenched positionsGee idk anon
>>64286098>the US>being supplied by the US
>>64284886more there are a lot of big cities in ukrainem try 2 million plus paramilitaries and police
>>64284898yeah
>>64286098>the US never managed to achieve such swift victories against Japan while being supplied by the US
>>64286098Have you heard of this thing called an "ocean"? There's one between the US and Japan.Pro tip- meat wave tactics do not work if your pidors need to swim across an ocean. You should know this since they can't even cross a river with pontoons.
>>64285616It also effectively ended any true Native American resistance as well, since Britain was the largest supplier of fire arms to Native Americas and The Treaty of Ghent conclusively stopped that.Basically, The War of 1812 ensured Manifest Destiny for the US.
>>64284886>that wiped out the main IJA force stationed in China.IJA was a joke though
>>64284934My brown friend, with 1.5 million retards at the border they'd have even worse issues with roads, mines, fuel and ammo. Simple as.
>>64284896Petrinism and its consecuences have been a distaster for the human species.
>>64285531>So what is thier retardation? No fuel trucks?The retardation is that IRL things don't magically scale or teleport. 1. You send more fuel trucks --> you can't send more soldiers --> less soldiers reach the front line --> they are more easily keked by ukies. 2. You send less fuel trucks -> tanks, IFVs, APCs and MRAPs run out of fuel and become sitting ducks for ukie attacks;3. You try to send more of both -> you get the famous 40 km long traffic jam;
>>64284898excellent bait
>>64285181>bloodless occupation like Crimea-2014Which is a propaganda myth you got sold by the russians. It wasn't in no way bloodless. They've not only killed ukie soldiers during their glowie operation of taking over military objects, but also "disappeared" thousands of local civilians.
>>64285691>It would have been>I would have be straight if I didn't fuck with men
>>64285691>it would have beenThe UN coalition didn’t try an airdrop on Baghdad in contested airspace without any reinforcements.
>>64285901>Speculation is, lpr/dpr had an "agreement" with russiaYou are naive, LDNR+ never existed IRL, it was always just an occupation regime from russia
>Berlin, 1945>2.5M men>6k tanks to use as battering rams>artillery leading the way with 1 million shells launchedYea, no way were they doing it even with 1.5 million.
>>64285418Double shift for your H-1B visa Ramesh? Good to know you are still trying to make those 100,000 bucks.
>>64285531Corruption, that's it. Further compound by dutch disease.
>>64286163Supply and demand. The more jeets you can cram into a sweatshop the less you have pay each of them.
>>64286935warfare is /k/
>>64284886Half of the reason was he really thought Ukraine was being ruled by "Nazis" and that the moment the Russians pushed in half the Ukrainian army would instantly surrender and the populace would rise up and Greet Russia as liberators.They drank their own koolaid. Even now Russians continue to not understand why Ukrainians hate them
>>64286935>current eventThe Battle of Kyiv was three and a half years ago.
>>64286948Even the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine hate Russians.
>>64286935Find or make a thread you actually want to participate in instead of trying to play hall monitor you glorious winged faggot.It's explicitly a weapons discussion. How do you keep all those tanks rolling? How do you keep those AKs fed? It's looking awful hard for Russia already because logistics is critical to the function of weapons on a grander scale. OP brought up a scenario of a 1.5 million man invasion force that would have made the logistics situation, and thus their ability to effectively use their weapons, SIGNIFICANTLY worse. God awful logistics is why there was a time where the humble farm tractor preyed upon MBTs, IFVs, mobile SAMs, and SPAAGs.
>>64285531>So what is thier retardation? No fuel trucks?"Planning" to yolo their entire invasion force down a single highway.
>>64286832You sure?:>>64285739
>>64286948>he really thoughtHe never thought that, it's just a propaganda piece for retards. Sure, there's this element of getting high on your own supply of propaganda, but still.
>>64287044Yes, that was mostly on US Army being retarded. There was a ton of retardation in the american armed forces, including the navy branch (*cough* Ernest King *cough*).
>>64287371I dont get it
>>64287091Burger spools thought the same. Maybe not the "Nazis" bit but definitely about the war being "3 days, two weeks at most"
>>64284886imo they thought they would have air superiority but it turns out it's easy to shoot their rusty Soviet shit buckets out of the sky.
>>64284886If they were good at math they would not have started the war anon...Europe and the USA have such retarded debt levels that they will go broke soon.But the war may actually save them in the end because at least it put some western leaders in emergency mode and checking bottlenecks in key industrial and energy areas.They will still have to do roosveltianism/peronism to reduce debt to gdp levels and many countries in the west will go down as yugoslavia, probably even france and the eu.But Russia with retarded low levels of debt to gdp ratio managed to get itself in an attrition war as the west was about to enter a stagflationary death loop
>>64288853and now russia is in a stagflationary death loop instead.
>>64289242Russia has severe economic problems but stagflation isn't one of them.But if the war ends? Stagflation is coming.
>>64288159Victoria Nuland visiting maidan protests, and handing out cookies to some participants - is, according to "vatnik lore", a smoking gun for US/state department/nato/cia planning, starting, financing and commanding those protests, which were "an act of aggression against russia".So, so called "SMO" is fighting back against that aggression, which Nuland with her cookies is a personification of and a linguistic "hotkey" for referencing US tendency to involve itself in others people business.That is, one might say, one of fundamental pillars of modern russian geopolitical thought.
>>64285531corruptionit breeds incompetence and lack of goodwill on every level
>>64288853basically every country is in massive debt and it's hard to say what will come out of it. the US can always print its way out of a default but not sure about europe. it's going to be messy, but "going broke" doesn't mean all economic activity or industry will immediately stop>>64289242>>64289438afaik the russian economy is technically booming, but economies work different in authoritarian countries. they can just make up the numbers and force things their way, like by paying people with IOUs until everyone is effectively in slavery. nazi germany's economy was booming right up until they lost in 1945.. so as long as putin is in charge, russia's economy is going to be whatever he says it is. as long as they can export oil and prevent ukraine from rolling into moscow, they can probably keep things going as long as they want. the only thing that will change is the degree of poverty and entropy that the ordinary people of russia suffer
>>64285418Get back to me when Russians take a massive city and not an abandoned village that had a population of 50 pre war
>>64288169A lot of people thought that. Now it wasn’t because they drank the kool aid more less that Ukraine had a very small military at the time and most, and I’m guilty of thinking it too, weren’t going to survive long. Never sucked off russia like the others though
>>64289242No they don't have that problem, they do have a demographic problem but a civilizational collapse due to debt and stagflation was never a problem for them.Putin was actually very competent leader on the roosvetlian economic model and managed to get Russia debt levels to very low levels, people seethe about wages but wages have to be compared to purchasing power on an autarky based system it usually ends with low wages relative to non autarky nations but higher purchasing power specially of goods like food or cost of rents.The biggest problem for Russia is that this war destroyed their military reputation and you really can't patrol such a massive border a lot of the defense depends on your street credentials, same reason why Isis never attacked Israel, at some point your reputation works as a deterrent, and if Russia retreats on this war they will lose their reputation.What will come soon after 2030 is the demographic collapse of the world and with that the tax bases that sustain many countries and the globalist economic system due to lack of demand, once that happens how does russia protect it's borders against a colllapsing system?They can't, they could have used their reputation before but now if they retreat not even that, hence why vatniks spent so much money shilling that they are winning to normies it's not that they think that will make them win, but they need to preserve their reputation.
>>64290059>basically every country is in massive debt and it's hard to say what will come out of it. the US can always print its way out of a default but not sure about europe. it's going to be messy, but "going broke" doesn't mean all economic activity or industry will immediately stopYou have the wrong question, the question is how will they enter into this inflation loop, roosveltianism and peronism (peaceful national socialism) are the only two ideologies that managed to reduce debt to gdp levels with a very similar economic manual.Neither the usa or europe is ready for it, maybe individual european countries could but the european union does not has a single bond market, their countries compete worse their pension systems are basically ponzi schemes were the money is forced to buy bonds that give returns below inflation.The usa could get away with it if they changed housing regulations for a start and started to raise the minimum wage for a long time and tolerating higher inflation levels, but politically they are not ready for this, it's a shame because due to shale they now have not only food but energy independence so they could do roosveltianism in a good way, so it now seems instead of roosveltianism they will do peronism in a bad way.The political class will summon their own Peron by larping that inflation does not exist as their lower interest rates to service their own debts and wages, while never updating the minimum wage, the stagflationary conditions will force a new political force.No idea what the fuck vatniks were thinking tough, they literally started the war as usa inflation went above 7% due to covid gibs and faggot macron number one priority was creating vaccine passports for a pandemic until 2035, had they waited two years there is a high chance western nations would have collapsed on their own due to stagflation.
>>64287091>getting high on your own supply (of propaganda)I am really happy that this phrase has taken off for such matters and I credit myself for the early push here on 4chan within the last decade
>>64284886They would have needed at least 6 million men and most of them (97%+) would have been killed by the Ghost of Kyiv- wounded would of been even higher
>>64285376>Three years for bombed out shithole land with little to no infrastructural or strategic value left without major reconstruction efforts which is easily going to cost billions, perhaps trillions>Putting half your armoured corps and most of your what used to be well trained airborne infantry into a fucking meat grinder alongside losing trained up personnel and masses of equipment for said bombed out shithole land>Get your oil industry crippled by constant drone raids by enemy forces, throwing prices of gasoline in your most major cities up by nearly 3x>Throw half your economy into the trash with needless military spending for, again, bombed out shithole land worth little more than the ash covering the dirt>See innovations of military capability in the form of drones daily, whatever benefit can be gained from those advancements the ukranians also get, alongside giving the entire west a firsthand look at and well seasoned ukraine vets to come over and tech them how to do and how to counter>Drive your biggest nationality rival (finland) into NATO with a war over, AGAIN, bombed out shithole land>Push yourself into an international spiral with any and all western aligned (NATO and allies) countries, with any sort of reconciliation likely to take years, if not decades with public oil sales (of what you can make left) being so under the table that you may as well lay on the floor and do it>Only ally of note worthiness is china, with everyone else being just as bad a state as you but without the war to cripple it
>>64289480>handing out cookies to some participants - is, according to "vatnik lore", a smoking gun for US/state department/nato/cia planning, starting, financing and commanding those protestsYou're joking, right? Right?
>>64284886>>64284898So this Is What Happens When an Unstoppable Force Meets an Immovable Object.LOL
Is the catalog fucking busted for anyone else rn?
>>64286163From my Environmental science class:>high infant mortalitycontrary to what you might think, high infant mortality leads to higher fertility because you make more backups>Less educated womenthe more educated your women, the less babies they have because MUH CAREER>They WANT more childrenSee above>LOW INCOMEThe big one, poors make more kids.Contrary to what you might think, birth control doesn't actually help much. That only helps if you have already broken the cult of 8 kids minimum.
>>64290562If the objective wasn’t to seize the entire country immediately, why did the monke determine that part of the plan should be to direct 30,000 troops including the VDV in a drive south from the Belarusian border straight into Kyiv? Either that’s an attempted decapitation strike or the Puccians are so retarded that they don’t know the difference between Northern and Eastern Ukraine. >it was a feint all along!!!The least you could have done before posting was think about what you’re saying, Ivan. Why are vatniks so supremely retarded?
>>64290562Probably because they rushed the capital of Ukraine?
I will never understand how a board that had a Syria and Donbass general for YEARS is now full of ruslims and ziggerians seething about how discussing an ongoing conflict is somehow no longer on topic.Is there any better way of outing yourself as a tourist than seething about war threads being oiff-topic?
>>64290507Not really. That concept is firmly embedded in their heads, and "cookies/nuland's cookies" are routinely mentioned as a meme-reference to foreign influence in discussion of any kind of protests/revolutions/coups.Here's a couple of screenshots from dvach(thats a small hobby of mine - collecting "look into their mind" shit from there). Discussing recent nepalese protests...
>>64290889It became faux pa when russia revealed their weakness and incompetence. It's easy to deal with bantz or trolling when there is credible reason to disbelieve it, but when it becomes an undeniable truth it's unbearable
>>64290938...or from some random discussion about us/china/whatever politics.
>>64290562>still coping about this years laterit's genuinely giving me secondhand embarrassment that you're still convinced you've gotten away with backtracking from that, no zigger, we were all there when it happened, we watched you move goalpost after goalpost in real time.
>>64284898>kill real estate, industrial, coal sectors of economy for that>soon to lose most of its oil refineries for that
>>64290562>russians have spent the last two years mainly idling along the new bordera-ha-ha-ha, no
>>64290264Economic dimwit there, but peronismo does not sound good to me. Isn't watever Milei is doing right now a viable alternative to ever increasing debt?
>>64291489There is no real way out of "we built the world economy by paying for "IOU"s with "IOU more"s for the past fifty years".The only real solution is to just murder a lot of people and take all their stuff.
>>64284896Tbqh the south Ukrainian front folded like that, and the zigger invasion forces were stopped at the Dnipro river, mostly .
>>64290938>>64290948What the fuck, these people are delusional
>>64291480damn those must be some HATO supersoldier mercenary chips for the ukes to still be alive after all that. a wise investment from poland.
>>64291480>this is what ziggers actually believe
>>64284886The FSB and SVR embezzled all the funds meant to suborn all the local government and military leaders that would have allowed a thunder run into Kiev, then massively oversold their progress. Putin believed the propaganda numbers in all instances they were presented to him.
>>64284898this map portrays the situation generously, because it doesn't show the occupied territory in Donbas which Russia controlled before the war even started
>>64290507there's a little more to it than thatNuland is also on tape telling some protestors who came to her for advice that yankovichs deal was a trap designed to leave the street protests in the hands of a known neo nazi as a way of deflating themGood advice and, in the eyes of the Russians, a smoking gun that PROVES the evil HATO-ISIS-CIA was behind the whole movement
>>64284886I think the biggest thing is that they were emboldened by the U.S. withdrawal of Afghanistan, and assumed that the Ukrainians would fold, with or without assistance.
>>64291480ah yes the "military aid funds corruption" script. a fine vintage, havent had it since 2022. i wonder why the russians are so sure theres corruption in the western system
>>64291946Should we also show Belarus?
>>64284886>with just 190k menDon't forget the meme republics. In 2021, the DPR/LPR had something like 50k men between them which fixed a good chunk of the Ukrainian regular army in place in the Donbas during the leadup and the first few months of the war.
>>64284929>>64284949I remember reading something in 2022 that I wish I could find again that said something on the order of "the US Army (out of professional respect) assumed the Russian military had learned lessons from their 2008 invasion of Georgia"
>>64292425"the other side is just like us" truly is the source of so many historical blunders"surely they'll be more interested in peace and economic development instead of primitive warfare and plunder" - West's view of russia"ook ook they are cowards when facing actual risk, hohols will only care to save their own skin. banan is mine" - monkey's view of the West
>>64284886attrition warfare is not linear
>>64285531Turns out an army based around theft and rape isn't good at war.
>>64285163Well, he wasn't wrong. It's just that steroids are also used as palliative care for hospice patients.
>>64285065Anon, the Russians never recovered from WW2.
>>64290249>Putin was actually very competent leaderHe had oil money. That's it.
>>64284886>they'd have needed an invasion force of at least 1.5 millionThat'd be roughly 2% of their entire male population and is greater than the total active duty personnel in the Russian military currently. Bear in mind at the time a large reason why the inital invading forces were able to reach kyiv initally was because it was a surprise to everyone aside from the knowers in the intelligence agency. Everyone was sure at the time russia wouldn't actually do an overt complete invasion (partially due to them not building up enough for one) if russia had spent the time amassing 1.5 million infantrymen on the Ukrainian border there would have been no element of surprise and may have convinced Europe and the US to send supplies in much sooner.
>>64285531Than an extraction economy not a manufacturing economy. Russia sells most of its crude oil and doesn't have as much refining capacity as you would think for how much they extract.
>>64285739Believe it or not they cared a lot more about Okinawa being invaded than manchuria
>>64290562Da. Kyiv was feint. Kharkiv was also feint. Stupid HATO cartoon dog avatars don't realize you always use your best troops as a distraction and rely on unrecognized puppet state militias to seize the real objectives.
>>64288853National debts aren't a fucking credit line the bank is going to cancel anon, there is no "going broke".
>>64291480Giving India electricity was a mistake.
>>64290562Anon what would be the point of bum rushing the capital if not to occupy the country and/or topple the government?
>>64290562>doesn't it make more sense that taking the majority-russian oblasts was the goal all along?And they quickly secured them without taking significant losses, right? R-right?R-r-r-r-ight?
>>64284886even if they did invade successfully, how many would it take to occupy the country and keep it pacified?
Its inevitable the war is dragged into a global conflict soon with multinational deployments on NATOs side in Ukraine or it's over very soon. I reckon the latter. I think Putin has been buzzing NATO borders non stop in an effort to get a plane shot down so he can save face Its the most midwit but most accurate take on the situation right now
>>64292036>i wonder why the russians are so sure theres corruption in the western systemwell, there is. However:In the west, corruption is in the system.In russia, corruption IS the system.
>>64291480Kek
>>64285357Yes but logistics are gay in Russia's opinion, they prefer the gay rape action more.
>>64284886>But Putin somehow thought he could pull it off with just 190k menSoviet Satellites had/have stay behind networks, and the assumption was that those long range strategic assets were working as intended (as in the Kherson minefield de-activation and stand down orders). Even if they didn't coup de main the place, the economic warfare against Europe mostly in a drawn out attritional war is arguably more effective. But showing their ass to the degree that it's obvious they would have to escalate diretly to nukes after Iran stealth bomber operation's success certainly did them no favors in the strategic calculus.
>they'd have needed an invasion force of at least 1.5 millionwhich would require at least 10+ million (probably even more) of personnel in support roles, good luck with that
>>64284886Problem was they were already cooking their victory porridge and making tea before even arriving in Ukraine.
>>64290948waitwhen you say some sort of othe "handing out cookies", do you mean this in literal sense? that someone from the west went to the whole maidan debacle and just fed some people cookies? literally?and then ziggers take this as some sort of a secret nato operation?
>>64293118Yes, picrel proof of maidan coup by CIA
>>64293142fucking lmao this can't be real
>>64293142I wonder if the reason why Russia's false flags are all so goofy (the green wig and Nazi t-shirt, a book of Shakespeare sonnets being 'proof' British mercenaries are in the Donbas) is because that's how they think Western intelligence agencies actually do things? Like the US would have one of our most prominent politicians fly to Kyiv for no reason at all as 'cover' (somehow) for CIA shooting 300,000 Ukrainians one at a time with their 'turn up at Maidan square again tomorrow' gun.
>>64293183She even bought /k/.
>>64289480>referencing US tendency to involve itself in others people businessYeah because Russia would never do the same amirite.
>>64293216>hurr-durr russia doesn't meddle in the business of others because that actually russia's business
>>64291480>Zelensky is corruptI always found this so retarded, since if Zelensky only cared about money why didn't Russia just bribe him themselves? It would have been insanely cheaper compared to being engulfed in a 3.5 year war.
>>64293210fucking disguisting, is there no end to western provocations? what's next, forcing poor russian soldiers to not fuck eachother in the ass?
>>64293207As we all know, the first thing the US does when staging a color revolution is to send an internationally recognizable American there. Don't believe me? Shirley Temple was in Prague working for an international association of multiple sclerosis charities (which like all non-governmental organizations was a front for the CIA) when the US staged the neo-Nazi coup disguised as moderate liberal reforms by Czechoslovakia's communist government.
>>64293226>since if Zelensky only cared about moneythe guy was literally a successful entertainment businessman, building his media empire from scratch as a comedian
>>64293245And who was the US ambassador to Czechoslovakia when the CIA's Velvet Revolution (velvet is a color, nyet?) overthrew communism there in 1989? *Shirley* *Blyat'ing* *Temple*
>>64293245>>64293250Fyi my shitposts always come with citationshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Temple#Diplomatic_career
>>64293226This is so fucking surreal to watch. Would love a mash up of this and where they are now.
>>64293247I'm trying to follow the zigger logic to it's ultimate "logical" conclusion. Remember back in 2022 when apparently Ukrainians were selling Javelins to Russians? Why would you sell something to someone trying to kill you? It's like asking if the home intruder wants to buy a shotgun while he's robbing you.
>>64284886>But Putin somehow thought he could pull it off with just 190k men while being outnumbered by the defenders?He did not. The entire thing is a blood sacrifice and beta test of how to bring in NWO in a country.
So think there will be a chimpout over the newest strikes on the depot?
>>64293276Russia had a problem in the Chechen Wars of soldiers trading weapons to rebels either for drugs or money to buy drugs. And Russia being a reverse cargo cult, they obviously believe everyone else's soldiers would sell weapons to the enemy, all the other countries in the world are simply better at hiding the problem because they're born liars and not honest like Russians are.
>>64293292>Russia had a problem in the Chechen Wars of soldiers trading weapons to rebelsThey low-key did the same in Afghanistan
>>64293292Yeah I think it is more believable in a war of aggression, but if you're being invaded it does not make sense to sell weapons to the enemy which can be used against you.
>>64293304>Yeah I think it is more believable in a war of aggressionI don't think that makes much difference the soldier selling weapons to the enemy. He's going to get shot by them regardless. But hey, that's an issue for later. Heroin withdrawal is a right now sort of problem.
>>64293304>Yeah I think it is more believable in a war of aggression, but if you're being invaded it does not make sense to sell weapons to the enemy which can be used against you.russians don't view their wars as wars of aggression, no I'm not joking, they literally drink the "russia never invaded anyone" koolaid
>>64293292I wouldn't be surprised if this was also happening back in WW2 and that some of Germany's captured equipment actually came from the metaphorical back of Uncle Vlad's truck that was sold for some meth.
>>64293289>the depot>singularIs it that bad already?
>>64293319>Heroin withdrawal is a right now sort of problem.
>>64293339
>>64293339Supposedly something like 19k drones and other assorted munitions.
>>64285176Isn't 143 million Russia blatantly lying about their numbers?
>>64293585It most likely is. When the Russian tell you "good morning", better check your watch. They lie almost as much as Indians.
>>64290249>Demographic collapse in 2030That's a huge problem and it would have never happened, had we not saved everyone's booming population with the green revolution in agriculture in the 1950-60ies. Without that, half all baby boomers woulf have starved. Even if everyone in the millenial and zoomer generation suddenly has atleast four kids, you'd look down a barrel of overaging pensioners collecting money, sitting on wealth and not having the physical and mental capacity to do anything useful with the rest of their lives. And they can fucking vote.Politics will be a fuckkng nightmare.The bright side: kids who are born now or in the next 10 years will have a booming economy to look forward too after leaving high school and the best job market ever since the end of ww2. Everyone else who is currently employed or wanting to live will now feel the pain of the depression back last century, societal turmoil and a lot of redrawn maps worldwide.
>>64284886a) they relied too much on traitors / agents in Ukraine, they thought they would be handed whole cities on a silver platter, but most of the people on Russian payroll got cold feet the moment the real war started, and it only got worse after it became clear things aren't going according to planb) Russian high command unironically started drinking their own koolaid at some point, wildly overestimating their own capabilities and underestimating Ukrainian onesc) they played the operation too close to the chest in order to keep the whole thing secret (they still failed), which resulted in two things: first, relatively few people had the opportunity to even try and convince the people at the top that the whole thing was a monumentally stupid idea, and second, the units involved AND their commanders were caught entirely by surprise, leading to comical situations like a convoy of what was essentially riot cops receiving orders to drive straight into Kiev (because the plan assumed it would be if not conquered, then at least contested by then) and getting completely obliterated by well prepared defense.
>>64293643>obliterated by well prepared defense.didn't exist back then in Kyiv or Chernihiv.
>>64293602I'm just remembering someone pulling out statistics suggesting it might have been as bad as 100 million before the war.
>>64293216> Yeah because Russia would never do the same amirite.I have a screenshot just for this too!
>>64293497>over a month worth of chimpouts gone in an instantkek
>>64293704>russia restored poland fucking wild ziggers actually believe this
>>64293759>fucking wild ziggers actually believe
>>64293614>webmWtf is DND fags that "guarding" the pipe?
>>64293704Fucking kek. The absurdity of Zigger mentality
>>64293585Once Putin was asked about one of the weird central oblasts and said something like 'Yeah there is 8 million people there proud Russians yadda yadda' while the official statistics for the area was like 14 million that year.
>>64293986https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_People%27s_Druzhina
>>64294016oh they get back to the traditions, got it
>>64293585those were the 2021 numbers, which wasn't released until after the war started, so yes, they're probably really inflated.
>>64293704Russians will look at this and think all the countries are in the wrong. Let me throw it back at you, if you were so good to them, why did they all turn on you? I mean, sure, some are ungrateful and some had geopolitical reasons. But all of them?
>>64294015You should assume putins number is also inflated, just to a lesser extent
>>64290562Why are Russian speaking oblast not under Russian control then?What was the point of annexing Kherson and losing it?
>>64286098>US supplying US
>>64290562>memory holing doesnt work as well outside pidorstanMany such cases
>>64293095>Soviet Satellites had/have stay behind networks, and the assumption was that those long range strategic assets were working as intended (as in the Kherson minefield de-activation and stand down orders).Expecting these to still be functionally in place after 2014 is peak retardation.
>>64294470Westerners assume russians are like them and are capable of higher thought. Russians assume westerners are as retarded as they are.
>>64285469>Its pointless showing the parts where there is no fighting going on, show only the donbasNice invasion
>>64294504
>>64292665>He had oil money. That's it.No he was actually competent to keep the whole thing from failing, Venezuela also has oil money and it's a shithole, saudi arabia and the gulf has oil money and they don't have autarky.Putin problem is his neoimperialist nonsense.>>64292705You are wrong, you are thinking in the 1971-2022 paradigm aka post gold standard globalization era of constant pop growth and new open markets, even the usa with it's reserve currency can go broke if they are forced to inflate due to lack of demand for bonds and that inflation can destroy supply chains and eventually make you go broke for real.It's even worse for the eu were nations have the same currency but multiple bond markets.
>>64291367and if they win they have a destroyed nation to rebuild with little to no help from the West.
>>64299729So still a destroyed nation, now 2 centuries behind?
>>64299340>Venezuela also has oil money and it's a shitholeRussia is also a shithole. You're being mindfucked by carefully curated propaganda from moscow, which targets browns and incels.
trump just said russia is a paper tiger fighting aimlessly without results and that ukraine can winhttps://x.com/disclosetv/status/1970564879808348654based trump
>>64300005He'll heel turn the second that scumbag vance talks to him
>>64300005nuclear board meltdown incoming (even if he changes his mind 10 minutes later)
>>64300005>fighting aimlessly for three and a half years a War that should have taken a Real Military Power less than a week to win.I agree. If even Russia was single-handedly able to humiliate NATO like this then im sure it would probably take China a week to win.
>>64300115Sure did lose a lot of russians to kill 0 nato personnel
>>64300115but delusional vatnigger, that never happened outside of your fantasies, you should probably take your meds.
>>64300141No its 6 gorillion holololols, off to gulag with you!
>>64300141>the 1.5+ million ziggers pushing up daisies? yeah pretty funny that russia is suffering a ridiculously poor casualty ratio against ukraine, who's still not short on manpower despite having less than a third the population size.imagine professing that you could go toe to toe with nato on your own for years and then get your shit kicked in by a discount version of yourself lol.you can drop the fake smug attitude now btw, there is literally no reason for a zigger to be on this board other than to seethe about the fact that their favourite shithole russia is losing a war, you by definition are a seething retard because you came here for that reason and that reason alone, no amount of pretending to be smug will change this.
>>64290264>worse their pension systems are basically ponzi schemes were the money is forced to buy bonds that give returns below inflation.???Europe's pension system is mostly a system where a share of the workers' monthly earnings go directly to the old people. Simple as that. It has its problems, as it means the system expects a healthy enough jobs market and enough workers without too much unbalance between the retirees (hence the boomers problem, but a big chunk of them will die in the next 10 years already, the first male boomer is already statistically dead, the woman will die this year, and it will keep increasing steadily for the next two decades).if there's one system that's a ponzi scheme, it's the US one, tying your fucking pensions to the stocks market and its incestuous AI bubble ponzis, on top of cryptomeme that both combined is shaping up to become a disaster dwarfing the internet bubble.Both systems have issues but also benefits, Switzerland's 3 pillar system takes a bit of both and makes a nice mix.
>>64293226>Timeline shift
