Logistics are a weapon. Let's talk about em
>>64306069Batteries were called that because the diagrams of the first ones resembled the diagrams of artillery batteries. If front line troops are the bayonet and artillery the barrel, then surely the supply elements are the magazine and receiver, and staff the fire control group.
Once I got into an argument with a guy about Humvees, just for the sake of it. I took the position that a counterfactual humvee that was super efficient, one that could drive straight across any given country without refueling, would have been more in intimidating than one that is so limited by logistics. He too the opposite position, that the humvee as it stood was the more intimidating than the fictional uber-humvee, exactly because it was so reliant on logistics, and acted as a rolling demonstration of the overwhelming power of American logistics, particularly to an oil producer like Iraq in the gulf wars. Not gonna do a play by play, but I came away thinking I was still right but feeling like he won.
>>64306069the old story goes that artillery spotters will ride in a jeep to their spot, then use a telegraph wire laid by a jeep, into a ditch dug by a jeep, and then call in fire from a battery supplied by a jeep
>>64306166If the Humvee has more offensive capability, you'd be right. The statement about the idea of logistics backing a Humvee is a lot more profound, though.
If marshalling yards start to get attacked, it's over.
Even as a kid watching history channel specials, as soon as I heard Goering didn’t give damn about these guys I knew Rommel was fucked. Airlift is the true value of an country’s air arm, everything else is just gravy.
>>64306069The polish highway construction programme is more important for europe than the entirety of european strategic airlift capabilities.
>>64306069>FM 4-0 Sustainment Operationshttps://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog-ws/view/100.ATSC/0D7107B6-A6B7-445A-B598-253BB85CC28A-1308676390333/fm4_0.pdfThe staff books on archive.org are great if you're into this stuff.
>>64306193why was their aim so dogshit wtf
Germany's emergency airlift operations not only resulted in the loss of aircraft but also in the loss of many training instructors who had been hastily mobilized as pilots, weakening the foundations of the Luftwaffe.
>>64306069Rail baltica will allow much easier and quicker surging of NATO ground forces into the Baltic States in the event of a crisis.
>>64306219Airlifts to this day is tactical, not strategic. The only time it worked strategically was the Berlin Airlift, which was an exceptional event. No army general will ever trust his logistics to airlifts.
>>64306333Norden Bombsight was overrated trash and US planes had so much armor and guns they could only take smaller bombs.It *could* be accurate, but this basically required ideal conditions, lots of time, and not being shot at.
>>64306166this is the least retarded thing ive ever read on this site
>>64306219I read that the reason the Soviets allowed the Berlin airlift to continue without trying to pressure them further was because their experience seeing how inefficient the German airlift to Stalingrad was convinced them that West Berlin would be running out of food and toilet paper in 10 days so there wasn't any reason to turn the screws
>>64306069>how to make logistics without unionized personnel
>>64306069What would the characteristics of a dedicated logistic bomber be, to coincide with the tactical and strategic bomber?
>>64307766>Logistic bomberSo a flying carrier?
>>64306069>Logisticshttps://store.steampowered.com/app/1536610/OpenTTD/
>>64306219For perspective, a C-5 has a maximum capacity of about 125 tons. A European-sized container train has a capacity of about 2000 tons.
>>64307771I prefer Simutrans
>>64307303strategic airlift capacity is still a major priority of the US army
>>64307771this gives me an idea for a wwii/interwar period logistics game where every round is a 2v2 coop featuring a frontline commander using a simplified RTS gameplay a la Blitzkrieg or Steel Division, with their teammate being the behind-lines logistics commander/coordinator. the front commander's units can fight for a few hours/1 in game day tops before starting to run out of ammo, food, reinforcements, requiring medivac etc. motorized/tank units need constant fuel, ammo, food as well. the gameplay focuses around the logistics commander using engineers to set up supplylines via corduroy roads, bridges, repairing rail lines etc. to connect the shifting front line to a rail or supply depot. he also has to set up field hospitals with corresponding ambulances and supply them with medical supplies to allow wounded soldiers to rejoin the frontlines instead of shipping in reinforcements constantly. the only units the logistics commander can recruit and give orders to are drivers, engineers, AA emplacements and MPs who can coordinate traffic and also patrol for commandos/partisans. like in workers and resources, you would have to buy specific vehicles to transport different goods and your supply lines will be vulnerable to air attack or sabotage.a 1player campaign would have the frontline be commanded by AI with you just shipping them guns men and food but there would be a multiplayer 2v2 coop mode where you can coordinate with your teammate
>>64306354I would L9VE to ride this train!
>>64306354>in the event of a crisis.so long as the crisis doesn't come before 2050
>>64306333Dropping shit from 26,000 feet is not easy.From that height a bomb is gonna take 40 seconds to hit the ground. More than enough time for the wind to push it around.And you're in a WW2 airplane so you only have a general idea of your ground speed.And even if you're keeping a consistent heading your only guessing at your track. And you're being shot at.And you've got to keep in formation with/far enough away from 10,000 of your best buddies who are riding in 1,000 planes in various states of fucked up or actively crashing.
>>64307771Trains OP, pls nerf.
>>64307771anon you can't just post this sort of shit on an autism board. this is like giving firewater to the indians
>>64307771I remember fucking around with this when I was a kid. I was too retarded to figure out production chains so eventually all businesses I connected would fail, by that time I was usually board with a map anyway. Good times
>>64307303the Germans tried their hand at strategic airlifting during Barbarossa. They fucked up the planning for it so bad that the Luftwaffe commander in charge straight up killed himself as soon as he got the order to support because he knew there was no way he could make it work, and then Stallingrad happened and he was proven right.I find it hilarious that Udet saw one look at the plan, looked at his fleet of Ju-52s that had just been absolutely skullfucked in the Netherlands and Crete, and was like "fuck this shit I'm outta here, gg guys" and then blew his fucking brains out
>>64307826I've been playing around with the idea for a game set in the Iraq War where you play as a Movement Control Team and have to manage a fleet of convoys driving around Iraq. The game would progressively get more complex as the insurgents shift from close-in ambushes to IED strikes so the player would have to invest in creating their own gun trucks and reaching out to the different military branches and countries in their battlespaces for support.
>>64306166>acted as a rolling demonstration of the overwhelming power of American logisticsthis is the same kind of retarded vatnikesque logic like>ackshually the fact that my SRBM artillery has the CEP of Central Park is a demonstration of STRENGTH, because I can AFFORD to shoot twenty of them in order to hit a target>whereas the NAFO obsession with pReCiSiOn is proof of globohomo weakness because they cannot afford to waste nineteen out of twenty missiles all over the landscape, so they must ensure that their missile is pinpoint accurate>look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!
>>64307766Any Logistic craft capable deploying Rapid Dragon-like weaponry.Russians has a CGI video in 2018 of cargo plane deployed, selfcontained automatic rocket/mortar shit.Didnt found it.
>>64309828>Russiansa deranged Turk autist, actually>Didnt found ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQAfNP0RNA
>>64307826I haven't played it, but Foxhole is basically the MMO version of this. EVE also has massive logistics efforts at the top levels, but few players get into a position where they're actually cutting orders for dozens or hundreds of loggie players, so that doesn't really scratch the itch.
>>64309847This is it! Thank you!
>>64307786Based. OpenTTD (as much as I love it) is just playing around with railway-shaped pipes, Simutrains is where it's at.
>>64308830>anon you can't just post this sort of shit on an autism board. this is like giving firewater to the indiansNext you'll be telling me not to mention Zachtronics shit.
>>64310581>OpenTTD (as much as I love it) is just playing around with railway-shaped pipesit is possible to build a working computer in OpenTTD
>>64312998I'm pretty sure I've seen those on their forums years ago, but that's autism a few whole levels beyond mine.
>>64307311>Norden Bombsight was overrated trashthe norden bombsight was a very effective bombsight, the germans did manage to capture a few and found them to be as good as their own bombsightsits just that even a 100% accurate bombsight cant take into account clouds or wind, and europe had pretty bad weather> and US planes had so much armor and guns they could only take smaller bombs.this had more to do with the US prioritizing range over bombload, because the B-17 was designed to interdict a potential enemy landing force along the US coastline rather than a strategic bomber
Marshall-ing Yard reporting.
Request supplyLaunch supply from skyYou now have supplyAlso submersible supply ships. It seems like a waste to not even have this option.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_submarineThink about it
>>64309192If the humvee was a weapon you'd be right. If America didn't have Ice Cream barges and air dropped Burger Kings you'd be right. Weapons systems are meant to kill, killing needs efficiency, your example is vatnik trash because they break it down to be "cheaper" than American systems and forget that even at 10x the price for only 5x the accuracy America can still afford to launch and build more. If America is kicking the crap out of you and your guys are holding on by a thread living in caves and shitting in buckets you are goddamn right it is demoralizing to watch a fatass grease 12 more of your guys while sipping a big gulp in an inefficent vehicle you couldn't maintain for 3 days let alone 20 years.
>>64313859You think you're describing conspicuous consumption aka prestigious wastage so you applaud it, but it's actually not. The Humvee IS a weapon system, and weapon systems aren't wasteful for no reason. We use heavy fuel-guzzling up-armoured vehicles because superior mobility and protection saves lives, not just because we can afford it. We don't use a Hellfire missile to kill a terrorist because it's the equivalent of a gangsta's blinged-out gat; we use it because it can kill more effectively and efficiently while saving lives and sparing civilian collateral damage than a gangsta's blinged-out gat. Ice-cream barges and BKs in DFACs reduce the impact of PTSD which reduces the overall impact of the war on society. It's not wastage, it serves a tangible and functional purpose.
>>64313927The humvee is an old design that could factually be made better, more efficient, more reliable and more protective. It is not upgraded because it currently helps the odds of success more than it hinders so tue cost of an ulgrade isn't justified in the eyes of the budget makers. The original argument was a hypothetical over whether efficiency or performative waste were more effective at intimidating the enemy. My argument is that comparing the vatnik esque "my missiles are cheaper and therefore greater" fallacy to a vehicle with a purposefully tolerated resource inefficency is pointless. No, the humvee isn't a weapom system, it is a transport designed to get those weapon systems from point a to b and keep them mission capable, to that end if it sucks up more fuel and logistics can still handle it then who cares; and if we are talking about what Habibi would be more demoralized by, your mpg or casually spending more to wipe out his bloodline than his village made in the last 100 years, he probably doesn't even understand mileage but you can bet he understands the differences in available tech and why he doesn't have access to cruise missiles and a whopper.
>>64307786>SimutransDo trains just flip around in stations in that too? Why is it just Factorio that requires you to actually turn them?
>>64309847>wizz bangerkej
>>64314070Factorio lets you make double headed onesSimutrans has them flip but it is extremely slow, at least in simutrans extended, so making a turn around loop or flow through station is always desirable.Also IRL sometimes engines would be moved from front to back to reverse at stations.
>>64307943I forgot to reply to you. I was under the impression that progress was going well?
>>64314037>It is not upgraded because it currently helps the odds of success more than it hinders so tue cost of an ulgrade isn't justified in the eyes of the budget makersThis has nothing to do with performative waste.>My argument is that comparing the vatnik esque "my missiles are cheaper and therefore greater" fallacy to a vehicle with a purposefully tolerated resource inefficency is pointless.It's not a purposefully tolerated resource inefficiency; it's strategically efficient in the sense that resources intended to e.g. replace every Humvee with a JLTV would be more effectively allocated to other important weapon system programs.>the humvee isn't a weapom system, it is a transportIn the same way an Abrams tank is merely a transport for its 120mm cannon and slabs of armour...>who caresIt's a waste of resources, which aren't infinite.>he probably doesn't even understand mileageDon't be silly. It's not like Habibi is incapable of understanding the concept of a surplus of fine food and obesity, these are basic concepts of ancient human civilisation.Put simply: even primitive tribes can very well understand that a fat fuck chugging a venti PSL usually represents weakness and degeneracy (in the classical, unironic sense of the word); whereas massive displays of weaponry indicate BOTH vast resources and much better technology; in fact they probably understand it much better than you do.
>>64307826https://youtu.be/A-T0A3SAjaYThis got recc'd to me last night.
>>64317412>guy who's running the thing's team starts losing>starts pulling shit out of his ass like 'spec ops raids into the heartland of the enemy because uhhhh they were always there lol'I've seen enough and BEEN in enough of these to know how it always goes
>>64318088Most war games are ruined by a diva. Picrel was a little bitch who didn't understand the point of the exercise.
>>64318305>Picrel was a little bitch who didn't understand the point of the exercise.not his fault, the game itself shouldn't have permitted the action to be carried out
