Are the SEALs really as bad as /k/ say they are? What makes them worse than any other branch's special forces?
they're over hyped. that's it.
>>64306250They're drug dealing, drug abusing psychopaths.
>>64306250They're just overhyped to shit and their stories are usually boring as fuck lies. Get a Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iraqi fighter in front of the camera and then you'll hear some real shit.
>>64306250The need for different rations (and separate microwaves) sucks ass, as does adding pools to the barracks and only being able to target facilities near open water.
>>64306250Ok you caught me on my monthly nostalgia browsing of 4chinz so you'll get my (modestly experienced) opinion. For context, I deployed once in Iraq and twice in Afghanistan as infantry in GWOT. I met SEALs one or two times each deployment. Special forces are just high quality infantry with side skills. That's it. There's no secret sauce. They do politically sensitive missions in peace and unusual or not numbers-intensive (which is inherently unusual for infantry which can almost always benefit from just adding an extra pair of hands to the battle) in war.SEALs don't believe in that recipe because their organization originated with combat divers instead of infantry. The core enlightenment of infantry (you can always be better, but there is no being better than a bullet; so grow up and don't be a hero) is lost on them at the bureaucratic level. They're like a martial artist who thinks they can skip past the MMA fundamentals into joint locks and exotic shit. They don't have the basics and they're not in a mental position to admit they need them. They can pull things off as long as everything is going perfect; but any idiot can do that. Once things go wrong, they implode where other people keep going. And since they're shit at planning due to the god complex, things go wrong a lot.Context 2: the first time I met SEALs as a PFC on my first deployment, they didn't know how to combat-lock a truck door or fill a radio. Yeah...as an infantryman with 1 year of experience 3 months into my first deployment, only 2 firefights to my name, I would have died of embarrassment if that was me, and my sergeant would have killed me all over again. But they didn't care about this shit.
>>64306336We had the seal team 6 guys on our base in afghanistan and they let us, nasty girl infantry, do a range day with them, they were pretty cool, actually talked to us like normal people unlike our leadership. Watching them shoot was impressive but for how much money is spent on them it should be. Theyre still overhyped but thats largely because they write a ton of books and movies but the worst US sof is probably better than most of the worlds best.
>>64306336>>64306375thank you for your cervix
>>64306250I used to feed the ones on our base. They do tricks if you throw them raw fish. They clap and snort and roll around in the sand when you tell them dirty jokes. They smell pretty bad and had trouble following basic instructions. Fuckers could hold their breath for quite a while swimming underwater. The fools kept getting caught in nets and would often get cut by boat props. I don't know why but they loved Dumb fat chicks almost as much as fish. Sometimes I miss those seals.
>>64306250>What makes them worse than any other branch's special forces?They all read the books by Richard Marcinko and aspire to be drunken sociopaths like him
>>64306250as far as I have read (which admittedly ain't a ton), there's a generational divide within the seals in addition to the cultural divide between them and other SOF.A number are chill and the older ones are chill (mostly), but a lot read stories and movies like mentioned here >>64306485 and think "I'll be that!" and while other SOF seem to wash out of push out a lot of those people, the SEALs seem to have a higher than average amount of them making it through.and like >>64306336 mentioned the SEALs are a little different in that they aren't elite infantry like other US SOF are; from the start SEALs were around for very specific jobs *they came from and still technically are Navy Frogmen). My hypothesis is that while Rangers or Green Berets wash out a lot of "rogue warrior" types because they're usually doing elite / light infantry shit most of the time, the SEALs are doing more "super soldier" or "sekret squirrel" shit as their baseline, which means the "rogue warrior" type doesn't end up acting out because he's not being degraded to doing regular boot shit (like how Jack Idema was told to hit the bricks after one non-combat tour in the berets IIRC).
>>64307067They cant filter out the rogue warrior shit because its baked into the organization, marcinko specifically selected the people he liked for devgru, so his influence was being felt through his alumni and the culture he cultivated long after he retired. Marcinko was objectively a hardcore guy and did hardcore things, but he was also a total shithead and patient zero for pretty much every negative connotation associated with Seals today.
The Hollywood special forces complex was great for budgets and recruiting but also maybe lowered the real quality of the recruits. The NAVY SEAL boomer action move mythos encouraged a lot of narcissists with grandiose personalities to become seals in particular.
>>64306250Going off of everything I've heard:>originally meant for UDT and waterborne infiltration and special operations>peaked operating on river deltas in Vietnam>mission creep and desire for funding/notoriety bloated them into the navy's version of Army SOF, i.e. completely redundant>due to being a different branch, rivalry and miscommunication resulted in many failures to integrate in joint operations resulting in unnecessary deaths and friendly fire incidents >outside of UDT ops, doesn't do anything that isn't already covered by existing aspects of SOCOM or Force Recon>barely did anything during GWOT aside from the same kinds of raids every other branch was doing on persons of interest>known for fewer deployments than other elements of SOCOM or even infantry units unless you were in Tier 1 teams(like Seal Team 6 or adjacent)>reputation for being very lax, full of stories of genuine murderers, rapists, and drug addicts/dealers largely out of command oversight(unlike other branch's special forces)>rumor that in peacetime they also train far less than equivalent forces in other branches, low morale outside of pride in the reputation
every couple of years a news story of one of them doing something bad comes out, so retards here have to make blanket statements about how the whole branch is bad.
>Are the SEALs really as bad as /k/ say they are?Yes. against baseline soilders 100%
>>64306288>They're drug dealing, drug abusing psychopaths.This book isn't about a Navy base
>>64307067wasn't there a case a year ago of seal demanding a cafe give him a free coffee because he was a seal?
>>64307980And? You think Fort Bragg is the only fucked up base where special forces dudes can literally get away with murder?
>>64306406Geg
>>64306406EGGGAEEHHH *MHMSND* EGGAHAHS HMMMSHS
>>64306336Basically what you're saying is since the SEALs are under the US Navy, they don't have basic infantry training of the Army. Is that what you're saying?
>>64307067>My hypothesis is that while Rangers or Green Berets wash out a lot of "rogue warrior" types because they're usually doing elite / light infantry shitI wonder how that works with TACP and CCT
>>64308848They support the guys they're attached to. They're not leading the charge and planning the missions.
>>64307067>Jack Idema
>>64306250It's mainly the fact that they had some very stupid, very high profile fuck-ups during GWOT (red wings and abandoning Chapman) that the Navy desperately tried to cover-up/spin. This, coupled with the fact that individual SEALs have decided being "silent professionals" means milking their service for money by writing books or becoming social media personalities, has led to their reputation being tarnished. It doesn't help that SF have consistently beat them in combat diver competitions, either.
>>64306250They're basically the clowns of the SOF world. Especially Seal Team 6.
>>64308715NTA but yes. After BUD/S they do get a land warfare course, but it's simply not enough.Obviously it would be retarded to send SEALs to do infantry jobs (Russia killed a lot of their elite troops by sending them to do regular grunt shit and extra training doesn't make them bullet or fragment proof) so giving them a full infantry training experience would be a waste of time. But it does create the scenario where there's nuanced shit that grunts know but SEALs would have to spend a lot of time in the field to learn via osmosis.This is in contrast with for example the Army where the 18X contract is an option but in average SOF dudes are in their late 20s and early 30s and have 8-12 years of service.
>>64306485GODDAMN COCKBREATH COMMIE MOTHERFUCKERS
>should I trust the proven combat record of one of our nation's most established and best trained Tier 1 operators or the ramblings of autistic schizo retards on a loli hentai forum
>>64310728Fuckin' commies keep gettin' in my wayWell, surprise motherfucker, happy fucking birthdayNighty-night you sweet piece of shitEnjoy the ride, cocksucker - have a nice trip!
>>64310695Only about a dozen 18X contracts earn a green beret per year.
>>64307067>Jack IdemaBad example, he was a black operations dude with plausible deniability.
>>64311349Fuck kinda scope is that?
>>64306336thank you for sharing your truth.
>>64311623Probably a vintage PVS Starlight, they were a thing in the 90s and earliest 00s. Would track with the M81 camo and carbine HGs.
>>64306250Seals should go back to being frogmen and landing scouts, not frontline infantry. The US military is weird with each branch trying to duplicate the other branches' roles.
>>64306250So as a Yuro I'm not really familiar with the difference between all the US special forces units.So SEALs are a navy unit that does elite shit, but how does that differentiate them from say, Delta or whatever?I know that green berets are supposed to be these insurgency guys
>>64306336Thats kind of not on the SEALs though, GWOT forced them into a lot of shit they were never designed to do. Look at ST1 and ST2 in Vietnam where they were deployed as intended and basically shut down the entire mekong for Luke the Gook. Another issue with them is unlike the Army or USMC, none of the non-seal brass in the Navy have any infantry/ground combat element experience or training *at all* which means they have basically zero oversight from the bigger Navy, who just leaves them to their own devices 99% of the time.
>>64313053>So SEALs are a navy unit that does elite shit, but how does that differentiate them from say, Delta or whatever?It isn't as distinct as it used to be. Originally DEVGRU was the only SEAL team with substantial overlap with Delta, and that was based on the notion we needed one more high Tier counter terrorist / hostage rescue group more than they had any particular aptitude or reason for it to be them. Things started getting weird after 9/11. ODAs basically disassembled the entire Taliban with their UW fuckery and at the time, SEALs were the only SOF group with both a primary focus on direct action and also no UW mission, so Delta was getting pulled into a lot of more green beret type work and that left only SEALs available. That trend accelerated greatly after we invaded Iraq and the ODA mission kind of faded while the the DA tasking skyrocketed. One of the teams still exists basically as intended, a maritime raiding and sabotage group. At least when I was in, probably more of the teams have reverted back to that mission now 13 years later. And they are pretty phenomenally good at that, I had three different ships, including a full on DDG where a single platoon (14 guys) was able to "capture" the DDG even though we knew they would attempt a boarding somehow in this 48 hour period. Basically came over the freeboard from underwater, simuntioned the aft lookout, went through escape trunks to capture CCS and aft steering while avoiding the passageways, the other fireteam went over the missile decks, up the flag bridge and into the pilot house and captured that, the guys who had taken out engineering then assaulted the main deck and just locked all the non-essential compartments and locked CiC from the outside, then would have gassed it in a regular combat situation. It was funny because I was OOD when they boarded and I was looking off the bridge wing with NVGs, trying to see them, and then glanced inside the bridge and their was a frogman behind
>>64313053>>64313230 (Cont)Each watchstander with their gun trained on them. I said "He's right behind me isn't he" and heard a guy chuckle from behind me. They only had to shoot 2 guys, the aft lookout and a guy from the air det who was kind of wandering around a random area that nobody usually goes to. They know the ship so well they know exactly how to move through it without being seen, which compartments have to be taken, and which can just be locked/sealed and ignored. Ie, instead of fighting through the main spaces (the turbines can be locally controlled and override CCS/bridge), they just disabled the alarm and *simulated* a HALON deluge, which would have smothered everyone in there. They were kind of dicks but it was very impressive
>>64312988>not frontline infantry.they get several weeks of land-based warfare in addition to their grueling underwater trainingwhile it is obvious that they are best suited to amphibious operations, they are still very capable in conventional operations, simply because clearing a building isnt too different from clearing a ship interior
>>64306320>Get a Hamas, HezbollahNone to be found, I'm afraid. At least none with intact testicles. :DDDDDD
>>64309668It's kinda this, but it's also a very determined psyops against them. Russians and turdies are always out to shit on anything Americans might perceive as their heroes or something they're proud of. It's a strategy designed to try and blackpill Americans and boomers.
>>64313243>simply because clearing a building isnt too different from clearing a ship interiorit's noticeably different. less space means limited movement and support. you're not doing the same things on a ship that you'd do in a building.
>>64307980redpill me on the seals and JSCO being glorified cartels
>>64307980>>64313315JSOC*>>64313261take your meds, schizo. nobody likes ZOGbots. we don't need a psyop to convince us that the military is gay shit for losers lmao
>>64313317Ban evading again? You ugly dysgenic freak.
>>64313324>that chin>glassesthank you for proving my point that only disgusting freaks join the military lmao
>>64307067That's also my line of thinking. The SEALS are extremely good at marketing themselves, so the "rogue warriors" flock to them in droves. And since they don't need to go through boot shit to take BUDS, that means you see a lot of those "peaked in High School" guys run right to them in hopes of keeping their egos massaged doing shit they already fantasized about doing in the first place. Most of these dudes are, objectively, retards and don't get in but for every single one that does there's 10 stories about them doing retard shit. And worse, the Navy Admiralty sees them as genuine super humans because they buy into the hype. Remember, the Osama Raid wasn't originally going to be the SEALS until the Navy said they would not support the mission (and they needed the Navy's backing on the return) unless Washington switched from Delta and to the SEALS. The other thing, and this is probably a good thing, is that the SEALS being so popularized and filled with loud retards, allows the other SOF groups operate in relative peace. Do you think the Air Force wants these dumb mother fuckers for TACP or CCT? This sort of dude get washed out probably by design, and ironically it's those AF dudes that barely anyone even knows exist who get to be the closest thing to the "main character" there is, not the juiced up nimrods. SEALS don't get to tell those guys who are attached to them what to do, those dudes get to tell /them/ what to do because they're the ones who dictate everything and control everything in the skies. I can only imagine how much they must fucking hate that.
>>64313354>the other SOF groups operate in relative peaceYeah, the SEALs are the loud retarded distraction that allow the other groups to deal drugs and sex traffic children in peace lol
>>64306250I don't like them because they tried to block John Chapman's posthumous moh because he stayed to fight off enemies while the seals tucked tail and ran. Also, listening to the taliban's pov video of operation redwing where you hear Marcus lutrell's teammates call out for him to come back, and then the accounts of the dude who saved Marcus state he had unspent ammo and basically expose him as a liar, plus all the over embellished book deals and shit, it occurred to me that they're all a bunch of divas.
Why do I keep hearing the “they are right behind me arnt they” trope when it comes to seals? I’ve seen in the Kitsch episode of Joe Rogan…I’ve seen it pushed in this thread.
>>64313354>Remember, the Osama Raid wasn't originally going to be the SEALS until the Navy said they would not support the mission (and they needed the Navy's backing on the return) unless Washington switched from Delta and to the SEALS.I think you just made that up.
>>64313315JSOC had a covert aviaton unit called SEASPRAY that was officially dissolved in the mid 80s due to their involvment in the Iran Contra affair acting as drug-runners for the CIA. On top of that several members got caught smuggling people, guns and drugs into the US as personal side hustles. The unit however was never really dissolved but compartmented into Delta as E squadron and later on restructured under the name Aviation Technology Office.
>>64314201>The unit however was never really dissolved but compartmented into Delta as E squadron and later on restructured under the name Aviation Technology Office.I tried telling someone this in another thread and they didn't believe me. Delta has their own Tier 1 aviation and occasionally uses 160th.
>>64311614>Bad example, he was a black operations dude with plausible deniability.I can't tell if you're memeing but just in case- no he fucking wasn't, at least not when he was in service with the Berets.The shit he did in Afghanistan was mostly on his own, but I grant you the glowies probably did know about him and allowed him to do shit until he fucking barked up a wrong tree and made a minor diplomatic incident at the wrong time.
>>64310752>proven combat record>most established>best trainedgr8 b8
>>64314201>>64314220>I tried making up some bullshit but people didn't believe meShocking.
>>64306250Seals aren't particularly better than Delta Force or Green berets, only thing unique about are miniature submarines
>>64306256Basically this. We can make argument about many special ops getting overhyped although many Ranger units and Air Force special ops are worthy of great praise especially Pararescue.
>>64313331But enough about your self-loathing.
>>64313846McRaven was in charge of JSOC, and he picked the SEALS over Delta despite Delta being the guys that should have done the raid. McRaven is Navy and a former SEAL. Doesn't take a genius how he made that happen, especially when they (the Navy) were needed on the way out.
>>64314527I think the second Anon is saying that what the first Anon said is true, but isn't relevant to Delta now because Delta has their own distinct department that doesn't have the stink of the Navy on them.
>>64314555I was never in the military, schizo.
>>64314527This is exactly what I mean, no one believes it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_Technology_Office
>>64314589That's quite believable, but the other post has no merit.
>>64315018A former ISA guy talked about it on youtube. He also said Delta has their own intelligence service that's better than ISA. I guess he revealed too much and took the videos down.https://www.youtube.com/@TheStoicViking
>>64313242>They know the ship so well they know exactly how to move through it without being seen, which compartments have to be taken, and which can just be locked/sealed and ignoredIn your opinion, how well do you think that translate to foreign vessels? Particularly foreign adversary vessels for obvious reasons. It's gotten pretty common to shit all over skills, but that type of skill set seems to be something you just will not find in most other SOF units at any kind of scale.
>>64315090to shit all over SEALs*
Do they cut themselves
Was that Crimes of SEAL Team Six article that came out a few years ago reasonably accurate? That canoeing thing is disgusting.
>>64308688Thank you for your service.
>>64313315>intelligence agencies do shady shit in foreign countries>they make money through various means>drugs and trafficking happens to be a great way to make money that no one knows about>most special forces units work in close proximity to intelligence agency field agents>field agents use them for off the book operations that sometimes involve trafficking things>sometimes shit goes wrong and you end up with things like Eugene Hasenfus and HPF821It's really not as complicated as people make it out to be. Every country does this shit because funding intelligence operations overseas is a massive pain in the dick.
>>64317550>off the book operationsI don't know for sure, but I feel like these are much rarer than people imagine. Like much, MUCH rarer, at least in western nations.
