>ukrainians are killing shaheds by flying close with propeller planes and shooting them with ARsKINOhttps://youtu.be/rqDmSTrdlq4?si=1w6SI2LUIet2kXfC&t=36
>>64307413Hasn't this been happening for a while now?Still kino mind you
>>64307417yeah but it's the first time I see footage of ithad to share
>>64307413I said it many times.Fighter jets need pods with trainable machine guns. So they can safely and in budget shoot down Shaheeds and such. Approaching like this from side angle to avoid debris of explosion that flies backwards after explosion.
>>64307506>I said it many times.>Fighter jets need pods with trainable machine gunsthen you're a moron
>>64307506The su-24 has a cannon that shoots downwards
we're back to ww1
>>64307513based
>>64307413Russians have scraped together a few yaks now as well. Same job, different drones.
>>64307506UAVs need pods with trainable machine guns to shoot at planes and other UAVs chasing them.
>>64307419Not hatnig, but there was footage of this like a year ago
That looks like fun
>>64307869kek, Sanjay mad
>>64307413that's... actual /k/ino>>64307506i mean nothing beats shooting sneedhed from a Jak-52 in terms of stylebut you don't really need thatthere are cheap, precision guided interceptors like AGR-20 as A2A or Kreuger 100 as S2A and future A2A among othersbut all pretty newat <20k per missile it's cheap than a regular Geran as wellbut more reliable, precise and safer to use
>>64307413they might got down orlans like they are showingshahed fly at 300km/h dude there is LITERALLY NO WAY for a human to do this
US need only to dust off the old YB-40 plans, Ukraine should be able to build them no problem.
>>64307915>YB-40overkill
>>64307901anon do you know how fast prop planes go?
>>64307413Would a shipment of Tucanos actually help protect against shaheds? Probably the closest modern day plane you can get off the shelf for what they're doing here.
>>64308015>closest modern day planethat would be something like a Cessna 140slap a military radio on it, put an FN MAG or M60 door gun on it, O-1 or Alouette III style, donethe only reason I can imagine why they haven't done this is probably that the actual cost per Geran-3 destroyed is very low, and the potential for fratricide by friendly SAM very high
>>64307998have you see what 300km/h looks like when it hits you in the face anon?you cant even take your hand our not even open a canopy let alone shoot
Should've sent a couple dozen A-10s to hunt drones IMO
>>64308059>couple dozen A-10s>final score at war's end>9,000 drones>1,000 Ukrainian APCs
>>64307838UAVs need to be built that are scale models of WW2 fighter aircraft that patrol and shoot down other UAVs. They also need 4k gun cams and a streaming service.
>>64308059this is like saying they should be using 1911s
>>64307869>kupyansk and pokrovskHolding on after being mentioned for the last 4 years
>>64308019>that the actual cost per Geran-3 destroyed is very lowwhich shouldn't even matter that much as Geran-3s are fucking expensiveand there's a lot of room to be more economicalthey're >70k of imported components alone
>>64308145>actual cost is very *highonly just realised my mistake, dammit
>>64308091A-10 is good at maneuvering at relatively slow speeds and has a good gun for killing these shitty drones from afar cheaply.
>>64308149A turboprop with a machine gun would do it just as well. A handful of rifle caliber hits can down these, Brrtting 3-4,000rpm of AP/HE ammo capable of penning three inches of armor is overkill to an absurd degree
Post the webm nigger
>>64308179why not a shotgun instead of a rifle?
>>64308155Yeah my thoughts exactly, seeing how there's massive gaps since the introduction of high-tech force multiplier weapons I really wonder why it would not be viable to also have WW2 tier fighter(bombers) to deal with this stuff. Especially for a country in need like Ukraine.
>>64307978VINDICATED EIGHTY FIVE YEARS LATER
>>64308021Bullshit. Used to work in small unpressurized turboprops doing coastal maritime patrol. Used to convince new operators in the front right seat that if it was raining outside, it was fun to open the storm window and let the rain hit the palm of your hand cos it tickled.>it didn't tickle, lmao.
>>64307869>Uhhh sweaty you can't "kill" a drone it's not aliveIs pedantic faggotry like this the closest jeets ever get to cleverness?
>F35s will be deployed with cannon modules as drone killing workhorses
>>64308217Because rifles are superior.
>tfw 2 guys shooting down UAV with a rifle will become aces in current yearWWI is back
Looks fun desu. Should be a sport
>>64308149>cheaply>150$ per bullet>No radar so it would still rely on same GCI intercept tactic >Burns way more fuel than that yakyeah no yak-52 + gunner with AR still mogs it in bang for buck department
>>64307978little did they know how ahead of your time you was lol
>>64308266>bullshitok we now learned that 300km is nothing
>>64308428>150$ per bulletMy brown friend, those planes cost tens of thousands of dollars to fly per hour. A missile to shoot down the drone (instead of using a gun) costs around half a million dollars. So yeah, a $150 per bullet cost is peanuts.
>>64307513should use trainers for that
>>64307807WW2, really. Think C1s
>>64308217i thought in 2024 they were confirmed to also be using shotguns?
>>64307413This is fucking insane.
>>64308842There're multiple groups doing the same, only one pair of Ukies were using a Yak and shotguns but the rest was using rifles or MG from Yaks, A-22 Foxbats or helicopters (AFU).
>>64307413I wish that were me, it looks like so much fun
>>64308701Or you can fly something like a prop trainer that costs a few hundred an hour to fly and pop them with a rifle
>>64308800Most trainers can't achieve the supersonic speeds necessary for QRA with that kind of payload, and using trainers for a regular air defence tasking means they're not being used to train pilots.
>>64308021You sound like a child thinking of what it would feel like to put your hand out of a car going 300 km/h.These drones fly too high to counter with ground-based dakka.Atmosphere gets thinner the higher you go.I'm sure you can put these two facts together.
>>64307413Ive heard about this Alison owned p51 mustang with a turbo prop. Too much?
You need to use cheap rocket with at least 3-5km range for taking down drones like these. Because sooner or later the drone is going to launch interceptor drone to strike you if you get too close
>>64308933would it make sense for poorer and smaller countries? My country just bought armed trainers with that loadout. officially this is their reasoning.
>>64308217>>64308842>>64308857They use AKs that have the equivalent of ratshot as the round
>>64309018it makes sense for any country that expects to fight a SHORT war. and IF those are the latest trainer jets such as the FA-50 which, due to modern technology, can indeed go supersonic with useful armament.in a long war however, you're better off using your trainers to continue training and continue replacing front-line losses, or grow your air force, unless you're really in the shit.and slow training aircraft have limited use.
>>64308982Shaheds aren’t that fast.
>>64309011Ukraine has been having alot of success with dedicated interceptor drones
>>64307413is that a cmore???
>>64309087>FA-50Don't make our mistake buying those, we wanted to use them for this role due to the retiring of the SU-22s and it's been a fuckup after fuckup. radar integration stalled, armament integration stalled, deliveries stalled, had to source old AIM-9Ms just to put anything on those, abysmal loiter time unless you refuel every 30 min.
>>64307513>this would be $1.3 millions dollaritos plus tip>thank your much for MIC support!
>>64309435it quite literally brings the cost down to 20-30k per rocket instead of 2 million per missile against a 20-40k drone.
>>64308149>A-10 >and has a good gun for killing these shitty drones from afar cheaply.>Precision: 80% of rounds fired at 4,000 feet (1,200 m) range hit within a 40-foot (12 m) diameter circle>$80 per roundNah.
>>64309438Amd with machine gun you can bring it to $200-300 dollaritos per kill. 100 times less.
>>64309455Too bad it's a retarded idea.
>>64309444A ~$500,000 AIM-9 missile is somehow better?
>retvrn to tradition
>>64309458In OP Ukrainians literally shoot down Shaheeds firing assault rifles through prop aircraft went window. If you MIC cant replicate this trick with all their scientific and industrial might, shame on them.
>>64309435the fact that the Ukes themselves aren't nigger-rigging every jet they can beg / borrow / steal with gun pods tells you that this tactic is too inefficient for them to roll it out en masse, moron
>>64309531ukies literally posted recently a sheeit drone being shot down by a F-16 using the cannon
>>64309531There are no movable guns gunpods that make this tactic viable.This is my point.For jet with fixed guns its very isanfe to shoot down drone, because you aproach from behind and after explosion debris fies back and that goes into your jet engine intake.See how interceptors in the OP do. The fly on parallel courses staying at side and shoot gun to the siwd. So debris that files back doesn't hit their aircraft.To replicate that jets need moving gun pods similar to this >>64309474 turret.
>>64309548yes. AFTER the F-16 destroyed four other drones with its missiles. do the fucking math.>>64309555alternatively: killing drones with guns is actually much more difficult and inefficient, and you're a retard
>>64309531The largest share of interceptions lately has been by drone drone-interceptors (as in drones intercepting drones), while aircraft are more of a situational thing
>>64309595Was that a lancet drone?
Fuck it, close enough. Welcome back Boulton-Paul Defiant.
>>64309601Yeah, they get droned just the same as everything else
>>64307413Why don't we take pic relatedStrap it under a wingAnd shoot down drones with it?
>>64309601Why do they still bother using lanshits? Sunk cost fallacy?
>>64309708They can actually make lancets so lancets get used.
>>64307849Here it is
>>64309716Its so fucking based
>>64309708the optics of terror bombing Ukraine make them useful for propaganda, and because of this they are useful as decoys to overwhelm the Ukrainian air defence network and allow Kalibrs and Iskanders to penetrate. kind of like a cheap and cheerful ADM-160 MALDif Geran-3s didn't hit hard enough to matter, their usefulness as decoys would be minimalhonestly it's insane how much the propaganda cost/gain of each attack and weapon used in 21st century wars seems to matter, I can barely wrap my head around the implications>>64309716fun, but you can see how difficult it is to land a shot
>>64307413Honestly if I was the pilot I would much rather rig up a few machine guns and live out my dreams as a WW1/2 fighter pilot.
>>64309744This guy gets it. Bring back piston engined dogfighters!
no, seriously: how expensive would modern proximity fuzed cannon shells be?
>>64309716is it scout scope?
>>64309708You still don't understand how russia operates.You think they are trying to win or trying to be efficient about it.They're not.They're only trying their damnest to not lose.The result is... not a lot. Years of stalemate against the poorest ex-soviet shithole in yurop with unimaginable materiel cost and horrifying human cost. This is a desperate existential fight for the aggressor as much as it is for the defender, although in different ways
>>64309695 i an asking same questions>>64309474>>64307506>>64309455
>>64309744that would cost as much as the plane and maint would be harder
>>64309455>Let's risk a plane and a trained pilot by closing to within shrapnel range to save $27,800
>>64307513Fuckin APKWs. 17k each guidance head, 7x a pod, 6 pods per F15, around 700k for a full load, can add in the gun for another 500 rounds, and whatever A2G they want to cram in on it. That's a decent amount of cheap A2A. Goddamn I love the F15.
>>64309827>Implying they can chooseIf russia can hit Odesa it's because they don't have APKWS in current year.
>>64307901>at 300km/h dude there is LITERALLY NO WAY for a human to do thisMeanwhile, at 400km/h...
>>64307901>Nigga doesn't understand the concept of relative speed
>>64309909>7x a pod, 6 pods per F15>42 guided missiles!!can you imagine being an F-15 driver over Ukraine and making octuple ace in one night?
>>64308079Make a Bolton-Paul Defiant CUAS
>>64309474Was about to post this precise pic.
>>64309976Osint. Draw your own conclusions.
>>64309827Point is with side shooting trainable gun pod you can shoot from relative safety position. 200 meters behind, 200 meters to teh side, 300 meters slant range. Its pretty safe and can hit easily.
>>64308149Forward pointing guns are a bad choice because it means you fly through the shrapnel cloud if the drone detonates, and if you do enough interceptions, you're eventually going to chew up something bad with your engines which is very fucking expensive even if it doesn't crash the plane outright.
>>64310018this was probably in the Middle East
>>64309463Under 20k for an APKWS Hydra, you fucking retard. The USN pioneered this shit down in the Red Sea
>>64307413Seems retarded and dangerous
>>64310070oh yeah it was, more a proof that the system is actually seeing use in the wild. aviationist confirmed that in the article
>>64308956im gonna laugh hard on this watch what you mean too high anon?please tell us what is the altitude those drones fly
>>64309966>>64309972american education
>>64308079we have a manned version of this, without the cameras.
>>64309716>>64309719>>64309731>>64309773just leaving this herehttps://files.catbox.moe/p6jesn.webm
>>64309976We’re approaching ace combat numbers
>>64309463A $500,000 missle that always hits its target is better than ~$10,000 rounds of ammo that only hits its target sometimes
>>64309716Does anyone have the edit with Fortunate Son in the background?
>>64310657does the target looking like a polish house counts too?
>>64310624ok turdie
>>64310676o-okay?total zigger death?yeah?
>>64310657Okay but now imagine how many more drones you could shoot down with $500,000 worth of ammo
>>64309555>There are no movable guns gunpods that make this tactic viable.SPPU-6 gunpodsThere's also the GUV-8700 but the mount doesn't have as much range of motion.
>>64309716get these bois some 10 gauge or even bigger then we're talking, based as fuck
>>64307413I never thought that modern warfare would be so KINO
>>64308468It's like metal armour and guns all over again. >Muskets and early firearms makes armour obsolete>Armies abandons steel armour>WW1 comes around>People go back to steel armour for a time out off desperation
>>64310856>PPU-6 gunpods>motion range>8 degrees vertical;>12 degrees horizontal >dispersion non specified but expected for soviet guns "hit the ground"Nah.P. S. Also judging form Afghanistan experience soviets simply stoped using guns because they didn't work and used only FFARs and bombs in practice.
>>64310952>Also judging form Afghanistan experience soviets simply stoped using guns because they didn't workGuns vs Stinger tactical outcomes favours the jyhadi with a bolt hole in the mountains over the conspicuous aircraft.
>>64311134That was long before Stinger.Like soviet guns just didn't work.they worked during peace time when they loaded mag with 50 rounds and fired 10 rounds burst target practice.But when they started firing 100 rounds bursts it all fell apart: aircraft falling apart from gun vibrations, guns overheating, guns stoppages, Su-25 had to much center of gravity shift with full rounds load, need to fire all rounds or land with COG outside safe limits (mind you heat and Afghanistan elevation already put aircraft outside safe limits of operation). (on top of that gun had 1500 rounds barrel life or just 6 full ammo loads and after that it is very labor and time extensive barrel change and gun zeroing, for compassion A-10 has 40000 rds barrel life (for entire 7 barrels gun gun, one important reason Americans like gatlings).Soviet YakB-12.7 machine gun fro helis got nickname: wordplay "pretend it can fire"In teh end Soviets just said "fuck it " and stopped using guns whastover and replaced them with FFARs.
Can helicopters fly high and fast enough to keep up? Seems like the obvious answer to me>versatile>can carry plenty of ammo and guys>can mount a radar for better targeting>'nam LARPing
>>64310874
>>64311431they already use helicopters for that purpose and a ukie madlad actually played fortunate son
>>64310624>the same 20 clips used every>fucking>timeI've seen like 9-10 new TZD clips today alone, get some new material for once you subpar bait poster
>>64308469For reference, that was at 200kts at 1,000ft MSL so around 370km/h.
>>64307807So does that mean we get the red Baron back?
>>64310018Imagine military planes of today with vtubers drawn on them.
>>64308861Honestly if you're willing to turn this into your life goal it might not be impossible. Ukraine accepts foreign volunteers.
>>64311245>That was long before Stinger.
>>64308701AWPKS is 20 grand per shot
>>64312207>Honestly if you're willing to turn this into your life goal it might not be impossible. Ukraine accepts foreign volunteers.I know a burger who signed with an air defence unit of TDF to do this stuff.
>>64311431>Can helicopters fly high and fast enough to keep up?They used to but evolved sneeds fly in at 5km now and circle the city before diving on a target. Helos mostly can't reach that altitude and would need oxygen if they did.They're still used this way a bit but 5km is a fairly safe altitude for avoiding air defences, it takes a plane to reach you or expensive missiles.
>>64311245>That was long before StingerFucking up low flying soviet aircraft in Afghanistan was how the stinger made its debut and built its rep.I get that it only arrived in the last few years of the war though. >for compassion A-10>A-10 compassionate What do you use when you're not feeling compassionate?
>>64309011Putting parasite drones on your strike drones 'just in case' vastly increases their cost and complexity, making it worth shooting down with more expensive missles
>>64309068I've not seen anyone.using that apart from some nigger rigged Russian stuff that will have shit effectiveness. They use regular ammo and just shoot well
>>64309778It's the final death throes of the Russian Empire. I was listening to some historian who framed it as such, Empires collapses over 100 years or so and looking back you can see it. Russian collapse started in WW1, the USSR had a renewal under a different name but also collapsed and the Federation was trying to maintain it but is killing itself invading a former colony.
>>64312699Theatre level thermonuclear weapons. Although I guess that answer hold fast regardless of the battlespace context.
>>64308021How fast is the debris going to hit you if you are also going 300 kph?Hmmmmm really makes you think.
>>64308019>>64308015they need a closed bolt synchronized machine gun firing forward through the propellerI recommend a Lima Six belt fed upper for an AR-15 with some sort of air cooled heat sink barrel
>>64309783the only difficult part of that sort of design is the synchronization so you don't shoot your propeller offit's not like small caliber machine guns are difficult to acquire in a war zone
