Could space marines irl bring back glorious melee combat?
>>64317703probably not since they have an option of a gun that fires a fuck off huge bullet, that also explodes
Are these Funko Pops marketed to right wingers?
No, but Orks could.
>>64317710they used to be innocuous stuff for geeky nerds, now everything must be politicized.
>>6431771040k is leftist, feminist and globohomo, darling
>>64317710No because they have some aesthetic value, can be used to play a game, and can give enjoyment in the process of assembling and painting them.Funkos have none of this. They are in fact completely and inherently worthless, which is why they provoke an almost instinctual sense of revulsion in anyone who isn't a mindbroken consoomer slave.
>>64317703No, if 40K IRL, Space Marines would fight like Tau, since they have acess to a ton of weapons that make 20mm autocannon look like pea shooters.
>>64317851Orks go melee due to having no choice. The average Boyz have Drakka that hit for shit.When given a choice, like having a custom made Drakka(zappa gun, etc) they would love to shoot from a distance.
>>64317902Absolutely deranged reddit takeOrks go melee because they fucking love it, they also love dakka but nothing beats the sensation of usin a choppaThere are rare orks who prefer dakka to foightin', and they're considered useful oddballs
This edition of the 40k general spam thread isn't even slightly /k/-related
>>64317880>which is why they provoke an almost instinctual sense of revulsion in anyone who isn't a mindbroken consoomer slaveAlso they just look terrible: there is zero personality or style to them, making a perfectly bland decoration for millennials with grey houses.
Ok, obviously we are talking about make-belief world that was cooked up to sell plastic toys, so don't take it seriously to begin with.That being said, the in-universe explanation for Space Marine melee weapons is that the armor technology is at such a good level that a single man can carry an equivalent of a tank-armor on him, making him all but invulnerable to basicly all infantry weaponry. And that on the battlefield they move at the speed of a dashing Usain Bolt, so hitting them is hard in general. You kinda need dedicated anti-tank weaponry to take them out (obviously just drowning them in sheer wall of las-fire ill eventually hit something important, but in most cases the space marines just CAN rush through a battlefield without suffering significant casualties from small arms fire). Even during the Horus Heresy they found out that those Bolters are not very effective against other space marines, the armor just offers such a good protection. But they do have technology of creating force weaponry. Weapons surrounded by energy fields that will disrupt matter on a molecular lever. Those are pretty effective even against ceramite armor. The downside is, they are mostly suited on melee weapons. It's hard (not impossible, but hard) to create force-field projectiles. So just giving a guy a melee weapon (that can be anything, a power fist, a mace, an axe, a sword, a spear, whatever) with a built-in force-field generator suddenly becomes a valid option against these walking humanoid tanks. After all, YOU will be wearing one of those super-good power armors, so there is a good chance that you will get to that melee range and be able to whack that mofo into bolognese sauce, even if he is wearing a power armor. So that's kinda "stated make-belief reason": The armor tech is so good, and power weapons are kinda natural response to them that it becomes feasible.
>>64318401also, another reason is that wea are talking about warfare ins space, in space installations and space ships. Claustrofobic spaces with tight corridors and very limited visibility. Essentially an equivalent of trench warfare in very fragile locations where you might not want to risk damaging the walls or machinery around you. Or you are deep within urban sprawl of a hive city, with similary tight corridors.In those situations, melee weapons suddenly start to seem like a good idea. (I will leave sister repentia here for research purposes, enjoy her company)
>>64318186Even worse: They take hundreds of different characters, all with their unique identity, style and art direction and they uniform them into the same generic minimalistic slop. Funko Pops are the best fucking example of consumer conformity, and of capitalism self-celebrating itself.They are an industry that generate thousands of tons in waste and gives back nothing but soulless, empty shells barely resembling the ideas we love.Yeah, I autistically hate those things
>>64318401>making him all but invulnerable to basicly all infantry weaponry.except plasma, rad, melta, volkite, graviton, and needle weapons, grenade launchers or missiles. even bolters work pretty well in most material, the cases where they were found ineffective are the exceptions
>>64318421>>64318401Also, It's explicitly stated that demons in particular are more vulnerable to melee weapons than ranged ones. This is because they are made of warp stuff, and the warp reacts to human emotions, and striking someone with a sword is a more emotionally charged action than just shooting him.>>64318526The average enemy a space marine face is a chaos crazed human with a stub gun. Even during the Great crusade most enemies had weapons ineffective against Space marines and were easily defeated. The reason why most factions in 40k are capable of countering power armor is because the ones that didn't were genocided ages ago
Its always the same guy making the same retarded 'points' about how space marines are super fast and invincible and thats why melee makes sense/why artillary wouldn't work on them/insert other bullshit hereIts some sort of mentally ill compulsion to post the same shit constantly instead of staying on /tg/.
>>64317910And then there are the ones that prefer really big knives and who will sneak up behind you and slice your throat instead of running at you screaming and slice your throat. The are the oddest and most useful of all.
>>64318568Also the best dressed.
>>64318560>Also, It's explicitly stated that demons in particular are more vulnerable to melee weapons than ranged ones. This is because they are made of warp stuff, and the warp reacts to human emotions, and striking someone with a sword is a more emotionally charged action than just shooting him.This is a valid point. Like in many of the games, they chant "Make an armor of your contempt!". Those are not just idle words. A lot of the times, warp entities power over you is based on your own emotional reaction to them. If you are afraid of them, they will feed on your fear and uncertainty, and grow stronger. If you are NOT afraid of them, you will find out that they have very limited ways of affecting you. By simply rejecting the demon's presence and thinking "you ain't shit! I can take you!" you will find out that they are suddenly a lot less powerful, and relatively easy to banish back into warp. "The Armor of Contempt" is an actual thing. Simply by DISSING the demon you make him weaker. >>64318526Yeah, those are all specialist weapons that most soldiers simply have no acecss to. Granted, a missile launcher, plasma or melta weapons ARE a threat to astartes, and need to be taken seriously. Those are, like said, designated anti-armor weapons. Devastator weapons. They may be man-protable, but they are not something a random pleb civillian or even a back-water planet PDF grunt would likely to have. Volkite, rad or shuriken weaponry even less so.
>>64317703>I'm going to use basically magic tier science to create the perfect soldier>Just builds yet another generic hypermuscular giga-nigger whose entire grasp of tactics is "Scream as loud as you can while you charge over open ground without any kind of cover or support"Yeah, it's fun, but it's just another sign that even in universe the Emperor was a top tier retard.
There's nothing glorious in melee combat.
>>64319146You forgetting all the extra organs bro? Some of which have no human analogue?
>>64317710Yes, best not to get involved or investigate further or you mite get infected as well
>>64319174Meh, being able to chew through steel bars because you can salivate acid (that somehow does nothing to your mouth/tongue/teeth/digestive system) isn't going to help you that much when you're retarded enough to make a brain damaged gorilla look like an experienced Delta operator.
>>64318560>The average enemy a space marine face is a chaos crazed human with a stub gun. This seems pointless to point out as those same crazed humans are going to do even less with a melee weapon than a stub gun. If they had access to a melee weapon they're far more like to have a ranged weapon that's effective against space marines than a melee weapon.
>>64318401The in-universe explanation is the Imperium is Russia with British aesthetics. Blaming foreigners is propaganda for the starving masses. The oligarchs' real concern is stopping coups and each other.Mobiks (the imperial guard) get the absolute minimum of trash they need to be thrown at the enemy.Federal cops and minor oligarchs (arbites and planetary nobles' mercenaries) get barebones normal tech and one or two modern bits to feel like someone cares about them.There are a dozen different "elite" hit squads and special forces units who all hate each other because they're set up as counterbalance to each to stop coups (sororitas, marines, elite nobles' private armies, imperial agents) who get the modern peer level tech.Then there are the real elites (assassins) the top nobles use to take out internal political threats who get the best equipment and imported American or Jewish prototypes (xenotech).Space Marines are transgendered steroided Chechens. They zoom over to planets where the mobiks are getting uppity to make examples. Military practicality isn't their thing. They need intimidation factor and some pay-to-win advantages like power armor (night vision) over the mobiks.
>>64318563Well, half a point for not making the same mech thread over and over again, I guess.
>>64318625
>>64319353>British aestheticsWhich parts of Britain have you been to?
>>64317867>Space Marines>Exclusively male>Feminist?
>>64319491Custodes are Space Marines++ (Fancy new Primaris Marines are only Space Marines+) and they can be female as well as male.
>>64318625Plasma rifles and pistols are not Devastator weapons, grenade launchers are in most Imperial Guard squads.
>>64319481One word: Birmingham.
>>64318432>>64318186I was going to shittalk funkos but i realized I'd buy a nendoroid and its the same thing, but cuter. Also too expensive wtf.
>>64318625funny how the responses on dealing with occult shit on /x/ is very similar
>>64319616>BirminghamAh, that explains it. I've made a point of not going there yet. The train station is miserable enough.
>>64319353It ahould be noted that what the imperial guard usually does is put down rebellions that are as well armed as modern America if they're lucky. Against that what they get is more than enough.
>>64318625>Granted, a missile launcher, plasma or melta weapons ARE a threat to astartesEveryone overlooks just how fucking fast Astartes are. Their reflexes are simply on another level and their armour further boosts their physical speed while their helms give them superb awareness.So if a regular humie pops out of cover to quickly fire off a rocket then he'll be spotted, assessed and predicted before he can even pull the trigger. If by some miracle he does manage to get a shot off before a bolt turns him into a human flesh flower, then the marines are just going to sidestep it.The Astartes animation depicts this well.
>>64319851>just how fucking fast Astartes areRead the original lore. They're amazingly fast for someone wearing 600 pounds of clunking powered armor, which is to say, they're about as fast as a normal soldier without the fancy armor.
>>64319851>>64319890>Everyone overlooks just how fucking fast Astartes areYeah, but if you take all of the lore as gospel (remember, everything is canon, but canon is not necessarily true) then marines become kinda ridiculous.
>>64319851>>64319890Meanwhile, eldar move fast enough that at a full sprint the human eye has trouble tracking them. Humanity counters this advantage the only way we can; by filling the area with so much gun and laser fire that there is nowhere the eldar dodge to.
>>64319926The earlier codexes are more nuanced. 30k/HH went full reddit and lost the ability, and redditors ran with that to pollute newer editions.Try reading the early Tau books or modules like Siege of Vraks. When the Space Chechens join mobiks on the front lines of a real war, instead of doing showpiece ops making political examples, they tend to get slaughtered en masse the same way, because space steroids and nicer toys don't substitute for common sense, professional tactics, or artillery. And when they get out of line and meet the real state elites like assassins, they get dunked on the opposite way by superior technique and toys.Space Marine are supposed to be mid-tier warriors cruising towards extinction and only legitimized by the political inertia of distant history in their own setting.
>>64319987Yeah, but they substituted things like 'themes', 'consistency', and 'not being utterly fucking retarded' on the altar of building vaguely gothic-esque capeshit a good few editions ago.
It does make sense for necrons though.With all warrior aristocracy bit, Teleportation so you can skip all the getting shoot while closing the gap, Thoughest bodies out of any faction so much you dont require armour, The actual microseconds reflexes, super duper speed and the fact you can regenerate from getting shoot by a tank.
>>64317708Which is dumb, honestly. They’d be better served by appropriately upscaled lasguns.
>>64320195Lasguns trade power for pinpoint accuracy and regenerating ammo. Neither of which are necessary for marines because they're crack shots even without their helmets aiming for them, and if a marine is fighting long enough to run out of ammo something has gone terribly wrong.
>>64319987>Space Marine are supposed to be mid-tier warriors cruising towards extinctionYou're talking about just humans? Who's supposed to be the tier 1 OPErATORS of the Imperium? (this is a legitimate question; I'm not being a sarcastic ass)
>>64320195Boltguns are so psychologically shocking that hearing more than one fire at once pretty much immediately makes anyone that isn't a robot, ork or chaos marine within several hundred meters void their bowels and cry on the floor, and that's even before they see any of the rounds impact and basically turn a human being inside-out
>>64320219Imperial Assassins are the 1337 oper8ors oper8ing oper8ionally, the absolute peak of human physique and skill. Hamstrung by the most restrictive RoE in existence where the high lords of Terra must unanimously approve of each and every deployment. Custodes are Marines on speed but are so modified past human baseline they barely even think like humans anymore, which is why they spent 10,000 years as a secret nudist colony hidden in the Imperial Palace instead of fighting.
>>64318625Contempt THIS
>>64320233Ah yes the "10,000 years custodes nudist colony", we have dismissed that claim.
>>64319890>read the original l--NOBODY CARES FAGGOT THAT SHIT HAD SPACE MARINE/ ELDAR HALFBREEDS
>>64320219The closest you'd get are professional soldiers in the IG (storm troopers) or space marines (the VDV). Every level of 40k society has killer gangs, but there are no operators in the aesthetic sense, because that's a post-cold-war Western concept of professional soldiers being elite; while 40k is a spectrum with elites and soldiers being opposite ends of the spectrum. It's USSR with jihadi tier religion.Generals and political officers are the low-end elite (commissars and IG generals). Secret police are the mid-end (inquisition). Then the tiptop of the oligarchs have off the books private hitmen (assassins).The mood is mobiks and junior security men being glad to go battle the foreigners - because at least they only stab you in the front! Fighting your boss is too scary because he has all the scary elite assassins, torturers, and endless security systems looming to convict you of Catch-22s. War is a release from the brutal totalitarian mindfuck of peacetime.
>>64320274Tempestus Scions.
>>64320285Yeah, they're the 'what if we actually needed some grownups for something important, like defending my royal estate!' option which in 40k means brainwashing them into reliability. To rub it in, carapace gives more protection against boltguns than power armor gives against hellguns (excuse me 'hotshot lasguns').But they're not intended to win battles or be mainline troops. By definition, you don't send elites to the front lines.
>>64320215The power aspect wouldn’t be a concern for a Space Marine, though, since they could easily carry power packs that would charge them to absurd levels. And they’d have all the other benefits of lasguns on top of that.
>>64320285>>64320300We also now have tempestus aquilons, which are scions trained for behind the lines paradrops.
>>64320301Las weapon power also scales power consumption, a long las juiced up to max power only has like 10 shots and heats up like a bitch. Hellguns are tethered to power backpacks to compensate but marines already do that with full-blown lascannons so why downgrade? Bolters are powerful yet light and flexible by marine standards.
>>64319353How do russians live so rent free in your head that you actually sat down and wrote all of that? The imperium is a mix of every type of oppressive regime not just Russia.
>>64317703Space Marines only make sense from the POV of a nation that has an excess of manpower, but shitty industry and low-technology. To produce 1 Space Marine you end up killing like 1,000 children in the trials to become one, which is just a huge waste of future soldiers, workers, and engineers.
>>64321060Not entirely true, the washouts become chapter serfs.
>>64321085In most cases chapter serfs are just people who passed the trials but were incompatible with the gene-seed, because the trials are become a space marine are ridiculously lethal and tend to kill anyone who fails them.
>>64319851>The Astartes animation depicts this well.It's worth noting that the Space Marines in Astartes are only so invincible because 99% of the enemies they're fighting literally don't have weapons that could even scratch their armor.Put them up against Necrons or Tau and they're not gonna have such a good time.
>>64321085The ones that make it out reasonably intact do. The rest are used as guidance systems for Hunter missiles or get flat-out fucking eaten.
>>64320983Tbf in this case it's actually a reasonable comparison to make. Hell, even the Russians compare themselves to the Imperium and have started putting purity seals on their body armor.
>>64320983>human wave attacks>lots of artillery and crummy tanks>showing commitment to battling the enemy almost as important as actually winning>half decent special units>Commissariat>Penal units>emblem is double eagleGuard are militarily russia>initially Infiltrates enemy with small population of hard working and law abiding people to later bring in a flood>high mutations with multiple arms and digits sometimes>rises up from the sewers>bottomlessly fecund>teaming unwashed masses of nearly incompetent gong farmers>multi armed diety>uses equipment of others>rapeyGenestealer cults are India’s military>Ramshackle equipment and vehicles>belief in silly things like increasing the number on the rear sight increases the weapons power>pretens and making a show of things to gain credibility and social rank>have a penchant for para units>no real discipline or large scale coordination to speak ofOrks are African militaries>generally fairly green but well trained and equipped basic infantry>solid and fairly large body of combat veterans>high leverage of command and control techI hate Tau, but militarily they’re the american military>dwindling low birth rate population>well trained and equipped conscripts>very well trained and equipped volunteer soldiers>high level of tech>fundamentally the same but can never units to regain greatness Craftworld Eldar = Europe>eats everything they can, including bats, pangolin, and dogs>literally bug men>copies anything they encounter that seems good>can’t develope on their own without copying what they encounter>endlessly numbersTyranids = China>worships twisted god>no indigenous equipment>used by others for proxy wars or as disposable political toolschaos cultists = Arabs
>>64320285>>64320376>Tempestus scions try high speed low drag raid on Bork'an sept, deep in the Tau empire>completely cut off from reinforcements or resupply>despite early momentum, they stall and are met with Tau counterattack>requests for extraction are denied and they are hunted down like dogs by fire warriors, having failed to complete any major objectivesI've seen this one before.
>>64319890>>64319987Space marines are optimized 10-foot rule increased out to 100 feet and then enough armor to survive almost everything else. They observe conventional infantry are completely fucked when most anything horrible breaches into their lines and starts blending them so they made warriors that do the same right back. They'd obliterate necrons and tau in close, room to room combat all the same.>>64321291>because 99% of the enemies they're fighting literally don't have weapons that could even scratch their armorYeah nigga that's the point. Power armor rules, especially fighting indoors where you can't bring half the shit that can hurt them, and there's a lot of indoor fighting in warhammer.
>>64322323>Yeah nigga that's the pointThe point is that the enemies they were fighting were really weak, not that they were particularly strong. A Necron weapon fits indoors nicely and will still take out a marine. A Tau pulse blaster likewise is a CQC handheld infantry weapon that fits indoors nicely and will also one-shot a marine. The marines aren’t particularly strong, that was just a super favorable matchup against enemies weaker than imperial guardsmen conscripts.
>>64321060in all fairness that is mostly the Space Marines retarded ideals (and by extension the Imperiums) causing such a high death toll for what are essentially pointless trails, actual functional state would certainly reduce that figure to far far lower amounts
>>64319639I have to defend Nendos. They are chibified but they actually resemble the character they look like, and have detailing and poseability. Funkotrash is bland, aesthetically void, and deprived of all individuality or appeal.
To answer op's question:Yes but no. There would be no need, in the modern field, for space marines to close to melee except during assaults, and that close quarters fighting would be 99%mopping up after the defenders where killed on the attack.In 40k melee is a legitimate strategy against some stuff, demons have already been mentioned, but there's also Tau whom have poor eyesight at close distances and are poor melee fighters, or necrons that have devastating ranged weapons but slow reactions and if your up close in them you can smash them enough so they don't get up again. Or, Tyranids. They zerg rush you in waves that will reach your position. You need to be able to beat them back.Power armour itself is tough enough to withstand hits from most weapons encountered. Pulse weapons cannot punch through, despite claims upthread, and most weapons that can are exceptionally rare (plasma) or dedicated anti tank weapons (melta, lance, etc). These are, despite what tabletop would have you believe, not everywhere. And Marines do have incredible superhuman reflexes and such, letting them evade stuff.In reality though, melee just happens because it's cool. Big heroes charging in with weaponised chainsaws or swords and Shields looks cool.>>64320285It's Storm Troopers you zoomy broccoli head, I don't give a shit what nonsense nu-gw wants to call them. I was playing back when gw's where more like clubhouses and the combined stench of a few dozen teenage nerds and the general aura of geekishness repulsed most females at a good 40 paces. This pig Latin crap can suck my hairy left testicle.
>>64322342A space marine in mortal kombat fatality range is superior to a necron warrior or fire warrior and neither of those weapons reliably penetrate power armor. You have a chance to get through and one shot isn't going to do enough damage anyway, you need to hit again/twice to finish them off. Both of those units are almost half the points cost lol, they're clearly not intended to directly compete with them.
>>6431771040k was originally made fun of Thatcherist Britain. now GW just plays the setting straight, and retarded chvddies eat it up. like a friend of mine who is like "god-emperor Trump!", not realizing the irony of Big E being a rotting corpse kept alive by dark age techno-magic
>>64317703only because even american logistics couldn't keep up with space marines on a killing spree and melee weapons dont run out of ammo, that's the only reason, otherwise no
>>64322576Technically he would regenerate if he was unhooked. But noone knows that.
>>64322598are we entirely sure of that? all the psykers banding together to form Emps might have been a one-time thing
>>64322597Another thing that is rarely discussed or shown in Space marine media is how much they utilize servitors. Sure, the Space marines are the front-line troops, but they are often followed by a second line of hordes or battle-oriented servitors. When space marines go into a situation that is unknown (such as an unkonwn alien ship, and underground tunnel network or something like that) , they often first send out swarms of servo-skulls to map out the layout and create 3d tactical maps, so the marines have some idea what kind of situation they will be walking into. Then once the space marines have marched in and taken control of certain areas (like tactically advantageous positions or junctions or choke-point corridors) but they still need to go in further, they will call those second-line servitors to take up that position.You know those servitors that have like their arms removed, spine and legs reinforced and a big heavy bolter attached to the socket and a large backpack of ammo? Yeah, one of those is then dispatched to take up that point and provide overwatch. Plop one of those into that chokepoint corridor and order it to "look that way". And if anything walks into that corridor that doesdn't have a friendly IFF tag, it will open fire. That way the space marines can keep moving on and they don't have to worry about holding on to those points.And when a space marine starts to run out of ammo, he will ping a the tactical network for refill. And one of those flying cherub servitors will pick up a box of bolter rounds or granades or whatever the marine needs, and start to fly bee-line towards the marine. This is not shown in Space marine games, because you usually fight on an imperial world and have conviniently placed ammo resupply boxes lying around. But if you are on an alien world or ship, such convinient resupply boxes won't exist. That's why they have servitors. The sheer amount of servitors space marines utilize is often underrepresented.
>>64321085>>64321115Another thing is that people often diss the chapter serfs. And that's kinda unfair. Liek when people say that "you think you would be a space marine? Ha! you would be more likely be that dude who keeps cleaning the floors on the battle barge". As if that was some kind of insult.But in reality, that guy brushing the floors on the battle barge... He's got it GOOD! Yes, he may be just a chapter serf, but he is a chapter serf for the ASTARTES! That in itself is a rare honor and priviledge. First, you get to work with space marines and help them to fulfill their duty, so you are actually doing work that has a great meaning (unlike most of the serfs who get to do chores that are meaningless in the grand scheme of things). You are helping the Angels to do the God-emperor's work!Secondly, that guy probably has a lot better quality of life than ordinary serfs. He probably has better living quarters than normal serfs. Yes, he may have to hot-bunk his bed with another serf, but it's a NICE bunk. Also, his food rations are likely to be much better than regular serfs. After all, space marine chapters value efficient workers, so even if he eats some generic slop, that slop will most likely have some ACTUAL CALORIES in it. And it's not all literal recycled human feces. And thirdly, he gets to live on a battle barge. Which means, his life is actually quite safe. I mean, if any alien tries to attack him, that alien neerds to go through an entire company of space marines first. So it's a safe, reliable and all in all, pretty comfy life. Job is simple, just keep the place clean, and you even get to see the beautiful artwork of the astartes tempels. Maybe even you get to help the marines put on their armor. Compared to some generic hive world serf, you've got it GOOD!
>>64322700Another point about being a chapter serf is the relative safety of the job. You might be just a chapter serf whose job is to run errands and polish the cod-pieces for your masters, but you are ASTARTES serf. Imagine if a chapter serf gets a chore to run down to the marketplace of a space station to pick up some herbs because the astartes intend to have a bit of a nice feast or something. So the serf is running around the marketplace loaded with quite a bit of throne geld. You know, some REAL MONEY. The thugs on that space station might think "Oh, he's just some old serf, let's mug him!" ...until they see that chapter insignia on his robes. Yeah, just an old serf, but an ASTARTES serf. Maybe leave him alone. If he doesn't make it back to his masters, THEY start asking questions. And if Astartes hear that YOU have been messing with their serfs preventing him from doing his duty, and now his masters cod-piece is left unpolished because of it... your life expectancy starts to drop very fast. That chapter marking on that dude's robes is as powerful protection as a any physical armor. Yeah, don't mess with chapter serfs. Or you, me, and everyone in this hab-block will turn into a red smear on the walls.
>>64322700You don't have to convince me to join up, I already did it for the robes.
>>64322671is this backed up by lore or did you just make it up? not that there's that much difference
>>64322605He's an eternal, he dies then immediately revives.
>>64322822xenos lies
>>64322813There are tabletop rules on how to add servitors into your ranks. If memory serves, Crimson fists in particular have large amounts of servitors in their battle lines (take this with a pinch of salt, I'd have to check like 4th or 5th edition rulebooks to verify this, and I am lazy).But yeah, something along those lines was mentioned somewhere in the canon lore texts, but again, I have no direct quote for it. So like you said, "not that there's that much difference".
>>64322671This would actually be a pretty neat addition to space marine 3 or something. Like, you have a certain amount of "command points" which you can utilize to call in reinforcements, ammo resupply serviotrs and such. Much like you have resupply drops available in Helldivers 2.1 command point gets you a small cherub flying to you, bringing a small ammo box. 1 command point sends out a servo-skull to scout ahead and point out enemies (you get like a bonus damage to those enemies highlighted or something)2 command poitns will get you a granade refill.3 points will get you a big full ammo refill or a squad heavy weapon like a heavy bolter. Or a pack of medicae stims. And of course all these have a cooldown. And you can earn more command points by fulfilling mission objectives. Would be a nice addition to the game. A bit more tactical approach.
>>64322813Here's a model for resupply cherub servitor flying on the battlefield.This one is carrying a melta bomb.
>>64322700>>64322737Depends on the chapter. In nice chapters the serfs are treated as equals to the SM and some of them hold esteemed positions that are essential to the operation of the chapter as a whole. In other chapters they're slaves that are expected to fulfill their duties through horrid living conditions without complaining.
>>64322671I'm aware they have servitors/serfs/cute flying skulls for ammo refills but there's no way their logistics are consistently as good as you describe, purely because any situation requiring marines will also be dangerous to the point where non-marine logistics elements will not survive.Thus melee, because melee don't need ammo.
>>64323210Oh yeah, what I described is the preferred optimal situation. It never is that good out there on the field. Logistics break down all the time, servitor goes on a fritz, chapter serf carrying the granade box gets shot by some weird alien automatic defense system and disappears in a cacophonic explosion ...aaand you are yet again out of ammo.Well, back to melee it is.
>>64322576>40k was originally made fun of Thatcherist BritainYou were still also supposed to think space marines were the coolest shit. It was never supposed to not be really cool.
>>64323324So cool...
What Warhammer 40K novel(s) should I read?So far I've read:-Eisenhorn omnibus. Didn't like it at all, it was just detective novel with generic 40K paint.-First Ciapahs Cain omnibus. I had a lot of fun. A shame the other volumes are 100+$ used, so I won't get to read them.-Deathworlder. It was okay, but the girlboss leader was annoying.I won't try the whole Horus heresy series.
>>64317703There’s only like 1 million space marines and they aren’t nearly effective enough relative to their cost.
>>64323640Twice dead king, The infinite and the divine are pretty good.Severed is also nice and short
>>64322561A pulse rifle might only leave a hefty chunk out of a space marine’s chest but not kill gun in one shot, but a pulse blaster is the juiced up CQC version that does way more damage and armor penetration at close range.You can see in the Astartes animation that the Space Marines do get hit several times by shots. If those shots had come from pulse blasters or necron weapons then that wouldn’t have resulted in them just shrugging it off, but would at minimum have caused injuries which would have worsened their performance.Are they still superior on an individual level to a fire warrior or Necron warrior? Yes, obviously, but there’s quadrillions of Necron Warriors and trillions of Fire Warriors, and space marines are too niche to justify their ludicrous cost and expense to make, especially when nearly every other faction can pump out soldiers equal to or superior than Space Marines at far greater numbers.
>>64323677I forgot to add that I'm exclusively interested in reading about humans (space marines, imperial guard or whatever) shooting up xenos/demons.And none of the whole "but what if space marines had deep feelings" drama, please.
>>64323640Standalone books: Fire Caste, Gunheads, Relentless, Siege of Castellax, Bloodlines, Flesh and SteelTrilogies: Vaults of Terra, Horusian Wars, Bastion Wars
>>64323703>Fire CasteOh yeah, forgot that I also read Fehervari's first omnibus. Once again, I didn't enjoy it much, too focused on atmosphere for me.
>>64323720You don't like the atmosphere? That's the key part of 40k to me lol. Gaunts Ghosts is a pretty well-regarded series about human grunts fighting mostly-human enemies.
>>64323725I started playing 40K in the late 90s, even though I didn't play for long because the game itself is pretty simple and boring but the lore is phenomenal.>Gaunts GhostsAllright, I'll try this one, and afterwards a couple of the novels listed above. Thanks.Do you have any idea if the Ciaphas Cain omnibus 2 and 3 are going to get a reprint at some point? Those prices are madness. And I refuse to read any e-book.
>>64322026Not to mention:>High focus on air superiority >Crew safety is prioritized >Lots of precision ordinance >Some of the most important infantry in their military are the guys who laser designate targets for missiles and air strikes
>>64318526heck even enough lasgun dakka will take down a spess muhrine and those are equivalent of a 7.62x39 in power.Even on the table top a decent space marine tactic is "chop the shooty enemies, shoot the choppy enemies" even in 40k they aren't really the best at close combat unless they are Blood Angels of Black Templar. I haven't played since 5th so I might be outta date.
>>64323024>resupply cherub>Melta bombThat's clearly a suicide servitor
>>64322910>Would be a nice addition to the game.Its already in the game in seige (horde) mode.
>>64324194I mean shit, the basic Pulse Rifle that every Tau infantryman is equipped with is stronger than a Space Marine bolter and will absolutely down a Space Marine in only a few shots (or one with any luck), and by Tau standards that's a pretty outdated weapon, they only get stronger from there.
>>64322839There are two killteams that include them. The inquisition one which has a gun servitor as an option, and the admech one that is all servitors except for the technoarcheologist and servitor underseer.
>>64323684>minimum have caused injuries which would have worsened their performanceThey would've won just the same, and their armor might be more damaged. Most any other imperial force would've lost or be even more expensive and ancient.>space marines are too niche to justify their ludicrous cost and expense to makeIf you lose the fight, you could lose entire planets, systems, production and logistics hubs, or incredibly ancient and powerful relics. There's literally too much to lose to not have a few "at all costs" guys who you can count on to pull the beating heart from whatever attacks their most important objectives. The loss of a demon weapon or broken binding ritual or whatever else could cost them a solar system or worse. The money doesn't really matter when you need to win right now or you all go to hell forever.Space marines are cool and they win lots of fights and the setting requires them. You just don't like warhammer if you don't like space marines or want to "reason and logic" your way around their vital inclusion in the setting.
>>64325161Those production hubs importance really cannot be understated. Their important enough to the imperium as a whole that the guys that run and maintain them have their own armies to protect them.
>>64325161Space Marines are boring. The Imperial Guard is where it’s at.
>>64325161>They would've won just the sameEh, not that fight. There were several moments in that fight that they likely would've died if the forces they were fighting against just had stronger weapons. That first breach? They got hit several times by fire, that would've injured a couple and likely taken out one entirely. The hallway fight? They would've been going up against enemies with shields and tougher armor firing faster more accurate weapons that aren't so easy to dodge compared to a mere rocket, likely another injury if not a death. That hallway fight with the marine getting blasted by the multilaser? Yeah he's dead if that's a burst cannon instead. The hallway ambush with the heavy anti-armor rifle? Yeah that's another marine death if that's a rail rifle. And this is assuming the Tau don't pull out any of their CQC battlesuits and just use basic breacher fire warrioros.More importantly though, the cost of making marines means that there aren't enough to actually do their job.There are 1 million Space Marines total. That means that is only enough for 1 marine per planet. And obviously since they're much more concentrated than that, the reality is that the vast majority of planets remain undefended by any Space Marines at all. And you need Space Marines just to reach the level of enemy soldiers that are mass produced by the billions.Space Marines are cool. They are also woefully inadequate.
>>64317703Considering their multi-role function and whatever autism their specific chapter has, being experts in melee combat makes sense for them
>>64322813It's not hard to believe it could work that way. They also have numerous chapter serfs who provide support to the Marines and have considerable levels of training considering most of them tend to be failed aspirants (others getting their brains scooped and turned into servitors).I wish there was more of an effort to make Marine logistics more believable but then this is a war game where it doesn't matter that your cool marine figure only has one full mag in his weapon staring down millions of aliens and traitors and other horrors.
>>64325226There is *theoretically* only a million space marines in total. In reality the actual number is multiple times that considering how many chapters don't care about the codex, doing some black templars bullshit where they can have many more space marines, or are one of the many undocumented chapters. Remember, there is an *estimated* 1000 chapters of space marines.
>>64325812Those tend to be balanced out by near-extinct chapter like the Celestial Lions that are down to like 50 and will take centuries to rebuild.
>>64317902>>64317910>Orks are a melee race!>I2
>>64325812>can exceed the codex mandated 1,000 marines if you are on a Crusade>Black Templars:We are on a Crusade, it will end never.Of all the marines that you would think would be rules lawyers, Dorn's boys would be at the bottom of the list.
>>64325226>Yeah he's dead if that's a burst cannon insteadap-0cmon nigga this is a joke. You keep propping up weapons with negligible or literally nil armor penetration and going "oh yeah well if they had this one they woulda been done for!"Why are you so hung up on a very well produced fan animation anyway? What got you so heated that you're attacking this lovely short film, because the marines don't all instantly die to feed your weird anti-power fantasy? Cause I got bad news for you, in 40k the dudes with swords frequently win. You don't have to like it, but why not instead get into something that's gay and lame just for you, like mass effect or something?
>>64326028You know what are also AP0? Bolters. That have been clearly shown to blow a Marine's head right off with a clean hit in numerous sources including official GW animations.
>>64326028The Pulse Blaster is AP -1 and the Rail Rifle is AP -4. Neither of them are uncommon among the Tau. Besides, you're misunderstanding the point. YOU wanted to use Astartes as an example of how strong and powerful the Space Marines are. But the Astartes animation only depicts Space Marines going up against the very weakest of enemies.
Congratulations! You will soon have Space Marines on your planet! Hopefully you can survive long enough to see one.
>>64323640BLOOD GORGONS
>>64323640>Helsreach>Night Lords Omnibus>Gaunt's GhostsGranted the last one is actually like 15 books at this point.
>>64326196They also have a habit of surviving them. It's a question, not a guarantee.>>64326232>YOU wanted toNot everyone else in a thread is the same guy. That other guy literally just said it showed them moving fast, you got your nipples twisted over it and started ranting about how if there was an artillery piece at the other end of a hallway one guy might've died.>as an example of how strong and powerful the Space Marines areYou don't need an example. Space marines are the cool dudes of the setting that win all their fights, if you have a problem with the logic of that you can go cry about it. "boohoo why don't my gay xenos appear and kill them all? they have ap -1!" Go sell a single model first and maybe GW will give you a win sometime. Until then you're gonna have to accept you're third, maybe fourth rung, in a setting that doesn't give a fuck about your logical deductions of efficient combat.
>>6432648540k power levels are entirely vibe based. Space marines only win if the plot demands that they win, otherwise they get treated like jobbers. This is also true of chaos space marines, eldar, tau, necrons, and everybody else.There is an entire 80+ book series about space marines being the biggest fucking retards ever to have been spawned in this galaxy.
>>64325195Why would you like cannon fodder instead of super human killing machines?
>>64326523space marines are incels (actually volcels)Catachans get mad pussy
>>64317708It’s the far future and every faction has powerful scifi guns that destroy targets at long range. Why would space marines sit back and trade long range blows with an enemy they can best in melee? They would sit back and destroy an Ork army at range, but when fighting someone like the tau they would want to get them into close combat as soon as they are able.>>64317703No because the ranges in tabletop 40k are ridiculously short in order to make melee viable.>the max range on lasguns, autoguns, and bolters is 24”, average human model is about 1” tall so taking the scale as 1”->6’ the max range of lasguns, autoguns, and bolters is under 50 yards>the heavy stubber (literally the Browning M2 HMG that we are using 38k years later) has a maximum range of 36” or 72 yards>the Leman Russ MBT cannon has a maximum range of 6’ or under 150 yards>the siege cannon demolisher variant has a range of under 50 yardsThese ranges are fucking ridiculous. If our modern rifles had a max range of 48 yards then we would be doing a shitload of melee combat too.
