Cheap COTS-parts drones get 70% of kills in Ukraine, and most of the rest come from arty spotted by drones. We are in the middle of a military revolution moving power from expensive monolithic assets monopolized by the state, to cheap distributed assets built in a garage shop. Yet none of you "good guy with a gun" militia movie main character LARPers spend any of your money or time building up the skills to make and operate these things. Why? You are:>not serious>gay consumers >delusional narcissistsWho would rather spend $1000s a year on extra guns you'll never fire in anger. You are knicknack collectors, not serious citizen soldiers.
OP where are you going to get explosives? do you know how to make them? are you confident enough to make them?
Holy shit will you dronecels shut the fuck up about your flying IEDs for 10 minutes?
>>64319533>sErIOuS CiTizEn SoUljAhsnigger I like mechanical engineering and target shooting. I don't care about your larp, and if you actually cared about this shit instead of larping, you'd be involved in politics or working in the military instead of posting drones ISIS had zapped out of the sky en masse a decade ago with jammers from two decades ago.
If you're gonna discuss drones you must specify "no americans or israeli" allowed, because they are obviously not interested in discussing the topic.
You could've at least posted a 3d printed one retard
>>64319533>We are in the middle of a military revolution moving power from expensive monolithic assets monopolized by the state, to cheap distributed assets built in a garage shop.Third worlder cope, once agan.
I hate "gun culture" so much.American here:None of you effeminate, product-collecting, Brand TM- worshipping, gun shopaholics are actually serious about defending against tyranny. Guns for the average Amerifat basedsumer are basically the male equivalent of women who go to Ulta and buy every new skincare Product TM. Debating all day over if the barrel of your fifth "AR platform" should be 14.5 or 16 inches and if it should be 1776 Armory or Ballsuck Tactictical Brand TM is not serious defense discussion, it is the equivalent of being a "car guy" or a "sneakerhead."Case and point: I NEVER hear you Amerishart fudd bubbas EVER discussing drones and their use in a militia seriously. I KNOW you would all rather spend $5000 on your 12th Anodized Purple Suggmans Defense rifle than start acquiring a fleet of ISR and FPV drones and learning how to build and operate them.
quadcopter bombs are a temporary cheese strat like chariots and anti-tank rifles
>>64319551My name is tyler american from ohioblast and I agree
This reeks of Internet Research Agency-like paid trolls trying to incite domestic terrorism in the states using drones.>Citizen soldiersShow me the Russian citizen soldiers.
Leaving this here.
>>64319537You can learn to produce and operate drones effectively without them so you are prepared to integrate in a boog contingency. There are significant uses of drones without them too.>>64319543>>64319537It appears I hit a nerve :^)>>64319545"Gun people" are not interested in this either >>64319548Ukraine war directly evidences this
>>64319551>American here:>I NEVER hear you Amerishart fudd bubbasstop
>>64319558Schitzo >>64319565Jammers only work if you have the right freqs at close distances. Jammers do not work against fiber optics. High Energy Microwave pulses are easily countered by cheap Farraday hardening. Your hand wavey "this magic science will save me!" cope is childish. Also, do you have any of those or did you buy a Sig Saur P365 in Pink instead?
>>64319569>>64319557>>64319544I'm an American who thinks my fellow countrymen are mostly retarded LARPers and I want you to be better so I berate and insult you.
>>64319554Its a transitional strategy but very effective and killing a lot of people. Why would you want to go without a very effective tool you could easily have? Because you'd rather collect pretty purses--oops I meant manly guns!
>>64319582post gun
>>64319573senor.
>>64319566>Ukraine war directly evidences thisA war between two third world shitholes. Eat shit, turdie.
>>64319543Have you watched any Ukraine war footage or read any battlefield reports or firsthand accounts?"Muh jammers" "zapped out of sky" you'd think a real engineer would know better. But I guess youre Mechanical not EE but still, embarrassing childish oversimplification
>>64319551shill or not you just annihilated this entire board foreverevery single time a "well regulated militia" as per the constitution actually pops up, it gets shut down by the FBIthe 2nd amendment is wasted on america
>>64319533How cheap is the cheapest quad drone, and what is its battery life and range of operation? I know basically nothing about drones, please educate me. My inclination is that they are expensive, at least as much as the safe queens a lot of anons discuss here, and certainly more so than the shotguns and pocket carry handguns that most 'citizen soldiers' (very cringe term on your part) will probably rely on in a SHTF scenario where they are 'resisting tyranny' (cringe larp that isn't gonna happen). Also seems they have limited utility without a vast logistics network behind them to get them positioned ideally for deployment and charged enough to reach maximum distance. Guerrilla fighters, insurgents, or ''''citizen soldiers'''' are not likely to ever be able to get something together like that. For the kind of fighting you're describing it would seem to me that their best use would just be surveillance or spotting, maybe strap a thermal to one? Idunno, that shits expensive too. Not as expensive as it used to be, but expensive. $1000 can purchase a tactical shotgun that you could use for decades, but how many single use explosive drones will that afford you?
>>64319583No thanks fed im already toeing the line here>>64319586Is this supposed to he an argument? What do you know about EMF warfare? Explain the inverse square principle and the concept of atmospheric attenuation in your own words.
>>64319543>>64319566Sluts, get a law degree/learn law and advocate natural law while publicly smearing the names of Rousseau, Hobbes and Voltaire. You know you won when there is a trickle of normies that actually start thinking about the shit you talk about. You can't actually build a functional community while you believe violence doesn't actually depend on legitimacy and thus need to actually be able to be provide an alternative to the current society. Doing so as non violently as possible is the best for everyone involved.
>>64319533>We are in the middle of a military revolution moving power from expensive monolithic assets monopolized by the state, to cheap distributed assets built in a garage shop.This is shallow. You're thinking about the visible physical artifacts of military power like guns and drones; instead of the practical cultural knowledge that goes into using them, like small unit tactics or electronic warfare. Teaching a group of random civilians small unit tactics for using their guns is relatively easy. It takes a 100 IQ, a month, and some empty dirt. They'll never be as good as professional soldiers, but they'll be good-enough to be somewhat relevant. Teaching them electronic warfare engineering takes a 130IQ, years of engineering school, years of specialized work experience, and some expensive test equipment. Drones make ordinary men less powerful than ever before by shrinking the pool of people with the ability to compete at a relevant level. ISIS and Hamas demonstrated this on a 1:1 basis. When they fought with guns they got massacred but still managed to do some damage, even against elite enemies. When they fought with drones, they were completely cockblocked by even the oldest and most mediocre state units.
>>64319533>get 70% of kills in Ukrainewrongyou are retarded and don't understand how statistics work.
>>64319589What would a militia fighting a major state be closer to in its ways of fighting? You are a third wold shithole irregular, dumbass. You're worse armed than a Houthi. Adopt appropriate strategies accordingly.
>>64319544 >please stop letting the people making fun of our fantasies into our secret book clubdronecels lol
>>64319599Oh ok im sure they're not important which is why both Russia and Ukraine scramble to field millions a year, never mind. And I'm sure you are more accurate than myriad third party OSINT casualty counter outlets. My mistake!
>>64319599I thought that was artillery since the Hoholer krieg and zigger doctrines are WW1 inflitration and defensive tactics due to little to no Concentration of forces, which itself is due to;>DronesArty fags eating good desu
>>64319551
>>64319596>No thanks fednoguns detected. eat shit, faggot.
>>64319607Organizations with neurotype, or should I say "JIDF"...
>>64319611>And I'm sure you are more accurate than myriad third party OSINT casualty counter outletsDrones film their own kills, almost nothing else does, you non-cognitive subhuman.
>>64319597True, community matters and nonviolence is ideal.>>64319595Will respond more fully in a sec but many "Gun people" spend thousands on useless collections of guns when a Mavik type drone can be bought for about a grand. If you learned to 3D print or build yourself from AliBaba parts, an effective FPV is a few hundred. Most gun bubbas could have one or two guns and a garage full of drones for the same cost as their precious collections.
>>64319620What is your argument here? "Oh, you claim drones get kills? Name every video." Is that what youre saying, you non-white?
>>64319575>please do terrorism>no, i wont do the terrorism im the ideas guy
>>64319551Hell yeah brother! I'm buying my 13th Suggmans Nuts shotty to-day!
>>64319611You forgot to attach the gigachad image
>>64319626you're forgetting the part where all those drones are useless without explosives.
>>64319598Your last paragraph is a false hand wavey claim so I'll ignore it. These insurgents use IEDs for their primary effects. Re the first part, correct, and as such, we need to start BUILDING that cultural literacy ASAP.
>reads the ad hominem seethe and derailmentThey're so repetitive.
>>64319646you can tell he isn't american because he thinks we can just find mortar shells in our backyard like you can in europe.
>>64319533Good luck with that anon, /k/ is strangely and inorganically anti-fpv. This isn't the olden days of johnnylabs posting.>>6431959512 months ago decent FPV drones built DIY were easily made sub $200. We're talking full size ones capable of carrying a payload a half a dozen miles with no problem. In the current year prices seem to be more in the 200-300 range. Obviously this adds up quick if you're talking about building a fleet of one way trip style units but IMO that's kinda dumb outside of an organization with supply lines that can readily replace them. Dropper style drones would make way more sense. You can build a cheap ISR drone with mid range thermal capabilities(640p) and a flight time of 30min plus, range of several miles, for around $1000. 75% of that cost being the thermal unit.While I think their usefulness in the long term is debatable anybody saying they're useless or overpriced is uninformed or a shill. Anybody interested in preparedness or even just SHTF larp doesn't have a better use of $500 than setting up a basic FPV drone and having at least some basic bitch ISR capability along with a better understanding on both how to build/use a drone and how other people would build/use drones realistically. Drones aren't going anywhere for the government, but I seriously question how long us plebs will be allowed to own them without onerous background checks, registration, and restriction. They've already started with it.
>>64319637Building preparedness using consumer products is non violent and legal.
>>64319611>i'm sure they're not importantnobody said that, you have bad reading comprehension or you're just very dishonest.70% of recorded kills are from drones, i wonder why that is, it's almost like they have camera's strapped to them or something, and the bullets, bombs, shells and grenades don't.>scramble to field millions a yearbecause they don't have anything better and both of them have bad electronic warfare and are in a stalemate. these drones are fucking useless in a mobile conflict because they're not stopping fucking anything, they don't have the depth to, if you don't have time to set up a massive layered minefield +entrenchments first these little drone teams are just going to get run over.the reason why there's a stalemate in ukraine is because neither side has air superiority and can't make breakthroughs, and the only reason drones are as effective as they are (most of them fail btw, you're just seeing videos from the ones that don't fail) is because the lines are static.you are a dronenigger, and have failed basic statistical analysis. what people are making fun of is not the use of drones per-se, it is dronenigger's retarded delusions that they're some sort of revolution when they've been used in bulk in many previous conflicts, they've just only been truly effective in ukraine.drones are not a dreadnought moment, get over it thirdie.>>64319614>which itself is due to>dronesincorrect, it's because both sides can't get air-superiority and have very small frontline numbers for the length of frontline they're occupying, even 400.000 is tiny for the amount of land being contested.
>>64319646>>64319652Just because you don't have access to these now doesn't mean nobody would in a war contingency. Also they are very useful for low-cost ISR
>>64319551The one thing you dronecels forget is that drones are useless without a logistics network to ensure you can keep making them. Most of these cheap homemade drones are only killing one person at a time, the ones taking out serious things require actual military munitions. Add in that if you're planning on fighting the feds they can just turn off your drones. Oh you want fiber optic drones? Can you pay 500 more dollars per drone? Artillery and rockets are also more effective than guns, but civilians get filtered by the staggering costs.
>>64319652that's the part that always gets me with drone fags. we can't have explosives, and they're not easy to make.
>>64319654Yeah I never come on 4chan anymore but today I felt like ranting at the nonwhite zoomer retards and fat gen X fudds who live here
>>64319632nta but you're a fucking idiot.>drones have cameras on them>all the other things in war that do most of the killing don'tdo i need to spoonfeed you harder or are you going to figure it out on your own?
>>64319657Oh I see what youre saying, sample bias. That's not how casualty counting works, but I can see where you were confused and won't insult you.
Unless you can bribe some military grunts to give you grenades/C4 you're at best going to be making gunpowder bombs, which are decent but limited by the fact that you're trying to make some shitty 20 dollar engines carry it with speed to a target that is mobile. Ukraine can pull off dronespam, so can Russia because they both have mountains of military grade explosives lying around to use.
>>64319654>inorganicallyno, the board with weapons knowledge just knows more about you than the effectiveness of FPV drones, and shilling it here like it's a dreadnought moment makes you look retarded, too bad anon.
>>64319533>from tyrannyWestern governments have EW capabilities that can negate drones. But yes, anyone planning to fight against thirdies should be stockpiling drones and explosives.
>>64319646You certainly jest, the vast amounts cameras alone on the battlefield that can be accessed from the chain of command are nearly as effective as a radio in warfare>>64319626Sorry, the Rousseau&dialectroons part is a bit off point, i said that since that's what modern states are essentially based on philosophically. You may appoint others in their stead if you wish
>spam drones are useless for anything but turdies>Meanwhile us government making emergency appeals for cheap mass producible drones compatible with small/cheap currently stocked lethal munitionsHmmm
>>64319660>you find explosives in the boog!not likely, at least not reliably.as for ISR, people already have them for that. maybe not here on /k/, be I have seen them.
>>64319675>that's not how casualty counting worksthat is how statistical analysis works, 70% of recorded kills are drone kills, not actual kills, you left that out of your OP because you're a dishonest worm trying to push a narrative.>fake bravadoi'm sorry this shill thread didn't work out the way you wanted it to kid.
>>64319662A real Boogaloo, just FYI, wouldn't be you and your 3 friends playing Red Dawn innawoods. There would be large factions and each sides would have access to international markets for things like Chinese drone parts plus nation states allying and arming both sides. Also, how are you planning to get air superiority lol? With your collectable rare 10mm MP5 that gets you updoots on reddit?
>>64319573>"Citizen sdiers, the power is in YOUR HANDS to blow up your domestic tyrants with COTS drones! Do the needful!">"Why are you acusing me of agitprop and inciting domestic terrorism? Don't be a schizo."
>>64319680The difference is the 3D printed shit drones can't handle tumbles off a truck or getting stepped on. The US is going to refine this clunky tech much like we refined tankbusting with copper cones instead of man portable lower caliber borderline cannons.
>>64319664Better just give up then! Better to dwell in fantasy escapism!
he's so frantic lol, he keeps samefagging his own thread because not enough people are agreeing with him quickly enough.ahh... the plight of the dronenigger.
>>64319688Sounds like you need to go outside, touch grass and talk to people dronecel, oh no!
>>64319690Affordable mass > 12x $16000 exquisite drones.
>>64319699>Muh costsWhen western nations are frying the shit drones for pennies with lasers, you'll be clamoring for the fancy drones.
>>64319699>Affordable mass > 12x $16000 exquisite drones.Reformers born anew in the drone era.
>>64319694I like to reply to everyone lol even (You)
>>64319650>we need to start BUILDING that cultural literacy ASAPYes, and what I'm asserting is that you can't, because there's not a sufficient amount of EEs with EW xp and multimillion$ test cells to form the culture you're looking for. No amount of larping with FPVs and LoRa will result in combat swarms capable of standing up to a state. This is very visible in Ukraine today. The crudest garage EW kit is enough to dunk on garage-built radio links. All sides resort to fiber optics manually flying single drones. They don't even try to build a peer level combat swarm because they know it's hopeless.
>>64319677No, just by listening to people like you talk about drones I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about. You haven't done any "research" past skimming the occasional article by some journo or former gwot guy who's been out for 15yrs plus. I can tell this by your hand wave it away style responses with zero supporting information. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you don't like the idea of drones so they must be useless or a fad.
>>64319679>You certainly jest, the vast amounts cameras alone on the battlefield that can be accessed from the chain of command are nearly as effective as a radio in warfarethat's in a military context, not what we're discussing. OP is talking about boog shit.
>>64319689Just don't prepare or do anything! You're right.
>>64319699>affordable massthat gets completely annihalated by any of the cheap counters that already exist.
>>64319715>>64319693post your preparations, OP.
>>64319715Knowledge works just fine, stockpiling drones with homemade explosives is some seriously stupid shit.
>>64319704Ok me engineer please explain to me the kilowatts needed to operate such a laser, the mass and fuel needed to operate, the range with atmospheric attenuation, the dwell time per target killed, and how many targets it can stop before dying in a Time on Target swarm attack. Have you done the math?
>>64319699>Affordable mACK
>>64319710Your reasoning seems to favor my argument, that cheap basic drones are very effective and used by people who aren't EEs en masse
>>64319690Drones aren't even typically 3d printed retard-kun, too heavy to make sense for the strength. They're almost entirely CF structurally speaking. This is exactly the level of understanding of drones that is typical of this board and why I take none of you seriously on the topic. You couldn't even tell me the practical differences between analog, DJI, and walksnail without googling it.
>>64319725The math is simple. The United states has way more money than you or even a serious terror cell.
>>64319711They're so childish when they do it. It reminds me of Shawn Ryan podcast lol "I read this Business Insider article headline that says microwaves SOLVE DRONES! Good thing I dont have to be scared of change anymore!"
>>64319732Oh so we're talking about mass produced drones that nations are producing, not something that randoms would be able to sustain.
>>64319711>you haven't done any "research"i don't need to, drones are not a dreadnought moment, sorry bro. i know you were really pumping up your own ego for thinking you're ahead of the curve, but it was not to be.>you don't like the idea of dronesincorrect>so they must be useless or a fadstrawman, i never said that.you notice how angry and defensive you get when people make fun of your retarded maximalist delusions that drones are a revolution? i never said drones were useless nor that they had no place, they're good for spotting, for instance.but that's not good enough for you guys, you're 90 IQ morons obsessed with the idea that all warfare has been outmoded by cheap completely unshielded shitty FPV drones.the only armies that will have trouble with that are the shitholes that keep pretending they're a way for them to level the playing fieldeveryone else will have really cheap countermeasures for them in the coming decades.
>>64319533Feel free to lead the charge, patriot warrior.
>>64319716Yes they're useless which is why Ukraine has every 12 year old school kid building them day and night
>>64319735Which is why they retreated from the Houthis who were using cheap Shaheds? Why is everyone here so dumb
>>64319537>>64319558>>64319646>>64319652>>64319662>>64319664>>64319676>>64319721>FPV thread on /k/>Immediately starts glowingWhat a shocker
>>64319750>shithole country with barely any artillery and no capability for operational maneuvers or air superiority>acting like this is the future of warfare
>>64319732Based. This is not OP BTW lol>>64319739You have zero idea how the global supply chain works.
>>64319755Houthis are getting bombed right now by Israel and the US, not sure what you're talking about.
>>64319755>cheap Shaheds $193,000[3] (export; various estimates for domestic production cost range from $10,000 to $50,000)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136
>>64319759They're holding the line for years against a major nation state aren't they?
>>64319757do you even own a single fpv?
>>64319760I know that the global supply chain isn't going to be working that well if we're talking about random people having to make an fpv drone production line to fight a tyrannical government.
>>64319767>a major nation state>RussiaPull your head out of your ass.
>>64319762I know youre not sure what im talking about lmao are you even aware of how the carrier ops there went?
>>64319750>yes they're uselessnobody said that lolyou guys get so angry about this it's hilarious, nobody is saying drones have no place on the battlefield, calm down fren, your fantasy of massive FPV swarms just doesn't play out well against a modern army in reality, sorry.
>>64319626>>64319654Ok lol, thanks for the information. So... Just so I am clear. If I hypothetically had $20K to spend on guns OR drones, my options are: >Get a handful of solid personal weapons and then load up on cheap AR's and shotguns at about $400 a piece, end up with enough weaponry to solidly arm forty or fifty people >Buy a handful of Gucci guns with doodads like the strawman bubba you guys are describing >End up with like..... Ten single use drones, assuming I'm including the cost of fiber optics and hardening and the explosive material itself, which all seems mandatory for them to have any efficacy at all against a first world military Of course in real life, $15K of that $20K actually goes into having a good vehicle, camping gear, rations, tools, and other supplies necessary to survive or escape a warzone. Not all of us are disgruntled single men in our 20's with a disposable income in the five figure neighborhood lmfao! Any drone money I have actually would be better spent on survival equipment first, and guns second... Developing a drone fleet and deployment center that, at BEST might give me a dozen? Maybe a couple dozen ATTEMPTS at kills, not even guaranteed successes???? Would be hysterical to see someone drop fifty grand on flying IEDs only to have two thirds of them get plinked out of the sky with birdshot. This is the cringiest fringe of boog larping baby play....
>>64319767>major nation state>RussiaLMAOrussia
>>64319763Yes? Very cheap compared to an SM-6 or even AIM-9X. The fact that you're not familiar with this cost problem offhand shows you have zero concept of what's going on in combat strategy worldwide
>>64319774So old news? Anyways if you're gonna bring up Houthis guess what they actually shoot down? Drones. The shit you're claiming is good.
>>64319755>retreatedthey didn't do that though.you're not very bright, kid.
>>64319743What an utter faggot, you were strawmanning out of the gate. Your whole premise was that you know more about drones which is why you know they're useless. Now you 'dont have to know to know you're right'. I've never claimed at any point that drones have made all other forms of warfare outmoded. You're a disingenuous retard pissing up wind with a glib smile on your face.
>>64319785>Yes? Very cheap compared to an SM-6 or even AIM-9X. The fact that you're not familiar with this cost problem offhand shows you have zero concept of what's going on in combat strategy worldwideDo you know who the Reformers were?
>>64319785not compared to APKWS, which has already completely nullified them.also>b-but you're spending more money than us!is the plight of the thirdie who's losing no matter how much money the US spends lol lmao.
>>64319787You're either non white or such a gooned out retard your brain doesn't even work and think in rational, quantitative terms. You operate on emotional half remembered anecdotes
>>64319731That's because you're (almost as if it's on purpose) not thinking about the logical future consequences or the logistics behind all this. Think about relative power, not absolutes. If in the gun era combat stats were:militias 1/10governments 4/10And drones are:militias 2/10governments 9/10The 3d-printer-community type individual may jerk off to their new "empowerment" of +1 but the actual gap in power has grown from +3 for the government to +7.
>>64319788The USN was expending interceptors at such a high rate that they withdrew the carrier battle group from the theater. Command said it would take at least a year of sustained ops before destroying Houthis, optimistically. They could not sustain the cost nor magazine depth for a fraction of that time. You can look all this up.
>>64319798Are you just talking about yourself? I referenced a recent event, you're the one half remembering an anecdote about the US Navy moving.
>>64319789>you were strawmanning out the gatesno, i was just forewarning you that your dreams of drones as the new dreadnought dilemma that all war will form around was delusional.>which is why you know they're uselessstrawman again, i never said they were useless. just not replacing actual munitions and actual missiles
>>64319805>withdrewafter it's time was up and it was time for it to be replaced by another carrier battle group lol
>>64319757>deflects from a legitimate question>"you're all feds!"no, you're just a retard. you don't have any drones. you don't have any guns. you're no better than the larpers you complain about.
>>64319783Oh, so it was just some shitty bait then lmao. No, your best use of 20k would be using 18k of it on standard preps then using 2k of it on a few decent drones for basic ISR use while having replacement frames and parts for basic maintenance. A better use of your time would be saying what you mean and attempting an honest discourse instead of word vomiting out a long form all or nothing justification of your previous purchases and refusal to learn new things that you're definitely not emotionally invested in or anything.
>>64319715>Just don't prepare or do anything! You're right Blow up your Kremlin first, fellow freedom-fiighter.
>>64319820So all we need are some hobby drones? That's like the cost of one nice kitted out gun dude. Only problem is that if we're fighting tyrannical governments those commercial drones are useless. You have to have your own custom made drones designed for 21st century warfare. If we're talking a SHTF fantasy where there are no governments or warlords with the old equipment before SHTF then I think not starving or shitting ourselves to death is more important
>>64319834They're far from useless. And training on them is not useless.
>>64319662>The one thing you dronecels forget is that drones are useless without a logistics network to ensure you can keep making them.Entire US military and state might failed to stop fucking Iran from buying Americab chips to fire drones with these chips at American ships and their allies. Where is your God now?
>>64319573>Fiber opticsGet cubed Ivan
>>64319533The retards on here think everything can get jammed and hacked. Subconsciously they all want to maintain their hero fantasy where a man with a gun is still relevant beyond policing civilians.
>>64319820>on a few decent drones for basic ISRyeah. people have them for that, like I said earlier. maybe not on /k/, but I have seen them on reddit.
>>64319840Knowledge is always useful, no one's arguing that. Thinking your civilian drone or shit homemade drone is going to counter what billions and billions of USD can do is silly, at least on the gunfight level the government doesn't have completely bulletproof armor and they can't shut down our guns or bullets. You would need a large organization capable of mass producing drones and having good ties with China because you're buying from China, a nation that if you're from the west is going to be far away and rely on global overseas shipping. A tyrannical government can just shut down imports, you would need a country's military basically to ensure you can still get goods shipped in from China.
BTW I hope a boog never happens, I was worried about it under Obama but Trump and team seem to have leftist tyranny on the ropes, but I just think you're all very dumb and impractical for not considering this option
>>64319847Wire controlled munitions is older than radio controlled munitions.
>>64319841No one is arguing that nations can't spam drones. Everyone is arguing that small groups of people can't.
>>64319848Yes its extremely transparent escapist self-soothing. If they admitted it was a fantasty LARP like the guys who dress up in medieval armor I wouldnt be mad at them. But they act so serious
>>64319795>highly survivable >actually can be shot down by stingers at profit >unlike FOV drone
>>64319856>Shills so dumb they don't realize why they're t old to get cubedSo how long is that shilling related conscription deferral for Sergay?
>>64319863Not an answer.You need some time off the internet.
>>64319533>We are in the middle of a military revolution moving power from expensive monolithic assets monopolized by the state, only for countries running >35y old soviet hardwareeveryone else has access to incredible effective drone defenselike a 50y old Gepard which has a over 95% efficiency rate against Gerans / Sneedhedsor modern stuff against any drone like Rheinmetall Skyranger >to cheap distributed assets built in a garage shoponly applies to small FPV dronesGeran 3 are >150k a pop>Yet none of you>spend any of your money or time building up the skills to make and operate these thingswhy would you assume that?I've been flying and making drones for 10y nowbut againunless you fight against a shithole like Russiathese are utterly useless>good guy with a gunmy country doesn't allow guns for self defensecheckmate anon
>>64319776It's a motte/bailey fallacy with three tiers of outcomes:-massive cheap garage radio linked FPV swarms (the fantasy of drone hobbyists - which gets crushed by jammers)-fiber optic single FPVs (the military reality of hobby drone weapons adapted to fight around jammers)-massive radio linked AI robot swarms to adapt and overcome jammers (the onrushing reality of top shelf, gold plated, first world military-industrial-complex gigatech)
>>64319632Anon you’re literally just falling for survivorship bias
>>64319865No gas in Moscow having you work from home extra hours Vladimir?
>>64319858>Everyone is arguing that small groups of people can't.Like Donbass volunteers militia?
>>64319862Just check out my thread here >>>64313052 he's full of people coping that you need a man in a jet because of "jamming" , when unmanned platforms are already extensively used. Why do we even use satellites because they can just get jammed/hacked too?I've seen these wannabe military types IRL, they collect ARs and fantasize about being a hero. It's literally about feeling cool to them. It's pathetic.
>>64319834>Drones are useless for fighting tyranny unless they're hyper advanced Gucci units from defense contractor>Muh gucci ARs are HECKIN valid though>Shtf where you aren't facing state level threats? Food and medicine are what's important!>Buys another 2k plus gunYou're really going through some mental gymnastics here and it's kinda bizarre to me. Drones are not a replacement for guns or food and water or other typical prepa. They are definitely very useful though, and likely much more so than excessive amounts of either ammo or additional firearms past covering your basic needs. The mere ability to go and see what's going on 3-4 miles away without hoofing it yourself and exposing yourself to bodily harm is extremely useful and justifies the cost for entry.
>>64319869>the Gepard copeYeah I could say the same thing about rifles being useless because the govt had bombers and armored vehicles.
>>64319875You keep referencing groups that get backing by actual governments.
>>64319848Your idea of being some drone warrior is equal amounts of fantasy.If SHTF and you survive, you're gonna be some random fucking serf farming the lands of neomedieval warlord X, Y or Z and that's it. You're not going to fulfill your fantasies of dominance and power, of fighting in a war and gaining status through it.>>64319875Strelkov says "Hi."
>>64319871Ostensibly, with so much commercial public and open source AI, irregular forces could also access #3. And we will probably have to if we dont want to get terminator'd
>>64319877I'll explain it very very simply. The government can't jam your gun with electronics. The government doesn't cover police, agents and military head to toe in armor capable of stopping easily available ammunition.
>>64319872The real term i already used earlier is "sampling bias," I can tell you got your view of statistics from a YouTube Short and are a <15 year old Hispanic
>>64319882>such groups can't be backed in another place another timeIf you USA would have civil war I would guarantee you that Russia and Iran would shower these groups with golden ahowes and China would sell to both sides as always.
>>643198873rd parties may get the software, but you can't download the hardware.
>>64319873>Triples down without having extra info to know I'm not an Ivan or etc.Strawmanning from complete ignorance... As I said, take some time off the internet, you're adding nothing of value.
>>64319869>everyone else has access to incredible effective drone defenseHere's the thing, it's actually impossibly to deploy enough assets across a theatre to counter drones. You cannot put lasers every 2 miles, you're spending 10,000x to counter what the enemy is doing. You're losing before you even play.
>>64319896The bitter reality you refuse to accept is that unless you already control serious parts of the USA, those nations wouldn't risk the retaliation of a USA dealing with domestic militia and still has nukes.
>>64319899The way you speak is incredibly faggy like the average passive aggressive Russian milblogger. The way you act is like the average gay ass Russian. This thread reeks of fake and gay Russian faggotry.
>>64319876Yes this is the main point of my thread. They are childish, impractical, fantastical, self soothing narcissists. The world gets worse every day and they just goon to hentai and talk about how tough their gun collection makes them. I deeply hate them.
>>64319891>The government can't jam your gun with elect ... ACK!
>>64319900You don't need to counter all the drones. You just need to be able to maneuver and destroy the enemy. Artillery is a vastly greater threat anyway.Nobody is planning outright to fight a failed, trench war, like what's going on in Ukraine.
>>64319900You can't feasibly cover a large theater with drones unless you're a rich nation that can likely just squash whatever you're facing. Any organized force will quickly move assets to where you're sending your short range shitty drones.
>>64319885I don't have any fantasies, I'm merely telling you the reality that drones are eliminating people walking in muddy field holding rifles, EN MASSE. You are exactly like the people at the start of WW1 still riding horses and wearing brightly colored uniforms. You will go the way of the dinosaur when a conflict starts, hunted down like a scared animal.
>>64319699$16000 mass>affordable mass
>>64319820My question doesn't retroactively become bait just because your answer was fucking stupid. You framed this whole thing under the banner of resisting tyranny boog nonsense. Which means the drones have to be sophisticated and well equipped enough that they can't be remotely deactivated. Which means they become more expensive. Their base price is already expensive. Thirty minutes of air? I bet the weight of a bomb cuts at LEAST five minutes off, probably ten. Six miles? If the tyrannical government has soft targets within six miles, I don't think I can afford to sit in place and use a camera + controller to zip over and attempt to blow up one or maybe two infantrymen. The scenario you have dreamed up isn't rational, this isn't cost effective at all, it is every bit as dumb and impractical as spending $50K on safe queen tacticool larperator rifles.
>>64319887You won't, because going back to the start of the thread, being able to compete with MIC level funding, brains, and equipment on their chosen playing field requires the same stuff. Anyone can buy a gun and larp as a grunt with their friends. Larping as a team of specialized engineering PhDs with a billion dollar budget is a lot harder.That's why Ukraine and Russia don't even try. They give up and settle on fiber optics, just like insurgents in GWOT gave up on radio bomb detonators and settled on wires.But while the bottom and middle of fighters do that, the DARPAs and Palantirs keep pushing the higher end stuff higher and higher.
>>64319896Most Americans dont realize other countries exist
>>64319891It's infeasible and a straight up losing strategy to jam an entire theater of operation against small, numerous bird sized air assets.
>>64319911Explain to me how your homemade fpv drone that can be tracked via the cable or signal is going to prevent this fate.
>>64319757Okay what the fuck are you supposed to do with a plain quadcopter? Fly it into someone's nuts? Circle around a group of soldiers and annoy then with the buzzing? The thing that makes the quadcopters look so effective (note that I said look, not are) is because they're basically a bootleg PGM. Remove the explosive and all you got is a camera, which is useful but not a war winner by itself
>>64319915>EN MASSE.No, they're not. They eliminate them individually, generally one at a time, maybe a couple at a time if they catch a vehicle or an untrained bunch bunched up.>You are exactly like the people at the start of WW1 still riding horses and wearing brightly colored uniforms. You will go the way of the dinosaur when a conflict starts, hunted down like a scared animal.You don't understand warfare and have no military training. You look at curated footage of a failed conflict and assume that is the truth of how wars are fought, caught in your own ignorance and confirmation bias.
>>64319902>those nations wouldn't risk the retaliation of a USAYou what? They blatantly oppose US over Ukraine war and Israel and US reaction is what? US didn't even sanctioned China.
>>64319898You dont need particularly specialized hardware to run pretty powerful AIs on desktop tier computers. Even data centers are just tons of GPUs essentiallym
>>64319914>You can't feasibly cover a large theater with drones unless you're a rich nationThat's the reality you guys don't see. When a real serious war starts, everyone will be building factories to pump out drones by the MILLIONS.
>>64319915Yeah but that doesn't make them special. It could be a fucking Vickers for all it'd matter, get a bunch of guys in no man's land and they're gonna get mulched by whatever the defender has lying about
>>64319921Can you please stick with either government vs government or freedom fighters vs government? You keep switching. Those are two drastically different scales when it comes to resources and abilities. At the very least you will need armed militants to fight off police raids.
>>64319533>Cheap COTS-parts drones get 70% of kills in Ukraine, Incorrect, you're attributing all drone kills to a specific kind of drone of which there are many in use in ukraine.
>>64319899>>64319904He speaks like a white adult lmao Gen Z is so hopeless the west is done. Should we say "no cap" more, Aiden Hernandez?
>>64319934And the richer nations will be able to pump out drone countermeasures that economically devastate nations that focus on building cheapshit drones.
>>64319928I'll just let your lack of reading comprehension speak for yourself, don't even have to argue back lol. >Never interrupt your opponent while he is in the middle of making a mistake. t. tsun gook
>>64319928Entire USSR tank stocks that made American boomers shit and piss their pants went the way of dodo by toy drones.Zoomers on budget did what American generals couldn't even dream of doing without nukes.
>>64319908but muh drones will do something about it, right?what are you doing about it? do you have drones? are you preparing for the "boog"?you are no better.
>>64319757A consumer grade quadcopter is not an effective platform for IED FPV drones.
>>64319936No, MGs need line of sight. How are you so amazingly stupid? It must be so interesting being that stupid. Can you rotate an apple in your head?
>>64319947>Art of War quoteYou couldn't be more of a stereotypical ignoramus.
>My warehouse of people piloting fpv drones can handle a nation!>Wait what are missiles?
>>64319922Explain to me how your gucci but semiautomatic AR-15 would do that first.
>>64319951You dont understand...hes going to SHOOT the tanks with his Daniel Defense AR "platform!"
>>64319895How can you tell, that was my first post itt. Regardless, drones are not responsible for most of the deaths in Ukraine, artillery is
>>64319951No, what stopped those tanks from rolling into Kiev was NLAWs and TOWs putting the cope in cope cage. The drones came later and have only been good at picking off strays and putting down damaged vehicles. The bulk of tank losses are still coming from the usual suspects but you're so internet poisoned you only think drones are stacking bodies because they're the only ones that have a ton of videos of what they do. Retards like you would've put armor on B17 wings instead of on the engines or thr tail section because you cannot comprehend reporting bias
>>64319853This thread is so fucking unserious, when TF were there mass riots from the left or right under Obama, when TF were military units deployed to American cities under Obama? Both have happened repeatedly and at their largest scale this century under Trump. Boog still isn't happening. If it did happen it would be over in weeks, and the U.S. military would swat civilian drones out of the sky like ants on their nuptial flights, then bomb liberal suburbs with F-16s and sweep cities with armored infantry in order to preserve the Very Expensive infrastructure as much as possible... because those liberal cities are where all the fucking money comes from, which they will need afterwards in order to put everything back together.
>>64319961>>64319947What makes it funnier is that's a Napoleon quote lol
>>64319955Basic FPV drones (most used in Ukraine ) is literally analog consumer TV downlink and guidance kits.
>>64319945>richer nations will be able to pump out drone countermeasuresAnd why do you think those even exist retard? Where in all of history has such a system actually been shown to make a difference in real life? Meanwhile toy drones that aren't even fully militarized have already revolutionized combat precicely because there are no good countermeasures even after 5 years of the Ukraine conflict.>b-but my one corporate demo of something taking out a droneYeah, show me what happens to your multi-million dollar fly swatter on the frontlines. You think it can take out several thousand drones just to make up for its cost before it's taken out? Can those be deployed effectively across an entire theatre of operation?
>>64319951The drones were not a decisive factor when Russia failed in Kiev. The drones are still not a decisive factor, because of how slowly they destroy tanks and how many you need of them to kill one.The drones are used because they're all Ukraine has.
>>64319968Much like my AR, your drone is useless against a properly supported government. There is no reason to switch to a more expensive larping hobby.
>>64319973So you're saying...low cost distributed assets are...good??
>>64319975Yeah but he's oppressing liberals, browns, and fags (like you), which I like!
>>64319980Using your own logic, why haven't FPV drones won the war yet for either side in the Ukraine war? I thought this was a game changer, its not doing much, neither side is moving much.
>>64319891Your answer is as extremely simple as it is completely inapplicable, you are hyper fixated on fighting some nation state with the ability and willingness to jam everything at all times but think you will somehow be able to fight with your ARs. An endeavour you apparently think is appreciably aided by you stock piling more and more guns/ammo like you're gonna go all goro and quadwield them or something. The more you speak the clearer it becomes that the real issue here is that drones are incompatible with your own zapman esq LARP fantasies. Honestly connects a lot of dots considering the combination of bait, seethe, and internally inconsistent argumentation.
>>64319975>because those liberal cities are where all the fucking money comes fromNo, that's where company headquarters are located, which is where the companies revenue is technically "coming from" even if the actual productive work is occurring across the entire country.
>>64319959Motherfucker I can slice that apple and cover it in peanut butter. You're not getting that drones aren't some special kill everything tool that just invalidates everything. Again, it could very well have been landmines, artillery, HIMARS, or basically any flavor of explosive and the result would be the same. A flying RC-XD hasn't changed war in any fundamental way much like IEDs didn't rewrite the book on war. It just became another threat that needs to be accounted for and have countermeasures developed
>cringe larpers think they can fight the government with guns>I think I can fight them with my drones (doesn't actually have any)you are a retarded larper. you can't fight the govt with guns and you can't do it with drones either. you would need substantial military strength to do anything, and that's not something ANY civilian has.
>>64319973>No, what stopped those tanks from rolling into Kiev was NLAWs and TOWs putting the cope in cope cageWhen Russians rolled out from Kyiv there barely lost hundred tanks. Since then they lost 10000.
>>64319992It has allowed a tiny country to effectively halt a much larger one and bring it to its knees in a protracted standstill.
>>64319992They're a main reason it's bogged down to a wide, diffuse front of trenches and hides, advantaging the defender. You're so dumb at second order thinking I suggest you just don't post online anymore, Pedro Vasquez (american 11th grader)
>>64319947Based Nguyen Long Kek poster.
>>64319993You are literally just a larper who tried to find a more elite single operator weapon and now thinks he's the coolest and will surely beat the government this time.
>>64319992>Using your own logic, why haven't artillery and machine gun won the war yet for either side in the European war? I thought this was a game changer, its not doing much, neither side is moving much.
>>64319984I'd turn your brain into salsa if there was anything up there to work with. Yes you stupid sack of shit but quadcopters aren't some magic bullet that created the stalemate all on their lonesome, that was through a combined effort of several anti-tank systems working in tandem from advanced top attack ATGMs, to direct tank on tank fire, to the humble anti-tank mine. Drones are just another way to smack an armored asset
>>64320004>>64320008>>64320012This place is full of retards Jesus Christ.
>>64319995You have no foresight. Toy quadcopters have revolutionized war and they haven't even been properly militarized yet. You can't even think what they will be doing in 30 years with:full AI mission autonomyradar and optical stealthautomated collaborative teaming and saturation attack coordination
>>64320012Exactly lmao. everyone ITT is shockingly stupid. I really think the US youth demographic is like 90% 80 IQ Hispanic zoomers now. Its not good.
>>64319983$1000 DJI is less expensive than Gucci AR-15
>>64319918>You framed this whole thing under the banner of resisting tyranny boog nonsense. Which means the drones have to be sophisticated and well equipped enough that they can't be remotely deactivatedI did not, perhaps you are confusing me with somebody else. I provided information on the pricing of drones and the relative merits of different use cases. At no point did I suggest their use against the government or other state actors.
>The mongrel thinks a standstill scenario is good>Doesn't realize tech more advanced hard countered it and it was the richer nations that curbstomped people still using WW1 tactics
>>64320019So if I ignore your nonwhite seething and stick to the argument...we agree that low cost distributed assets are good...my original argument is that /k/ anons should aquire more low cost distributed assets...where is the problem, Junior Sanchez of San Antonio?
>>64320025The government can't jam an AR
>>64320008>>64320004No. That happened because of modern ISTAR and modern artillery, especially targeting troop concentrations and supply depots, which meant that Russia could not concentrate force or supplies anywhere without those concentrations being promptly HIMARS'd or otherwise destroyed.This then lead to the Russians being forced to employ smaller forces, which were then lacking in mass to penetrate the Ukrainian lines, also being destroyed thanks to modern ISTAR and artillery.Then once the Russians were forced into using small assault units and occasional company sized mechanized assaults, the Ukrainians could take good advantage of cheap drones in close strikes against these, since the drones' lacking efficiency wasn't as critical, again, due to the small mass of attacking Russian units.This general dynamic, which has been identified for decades now to be a fundamental linchpin of modern combat, is also a big contributor to why the US is going back to division sized elements.
>>64320028Go back>>>/a/282603771
I want to point out that nobody yet has denied my accusations of being Latino lol
>>64320036meds
>>64320034They can just shoot you in the face or bomb you lmao no big deal
>>64320028Drone tech is a reason Syrian rebels sweeped away Assad forces in two weeks. They literally nullified Assad boomer advantage in AFVs and arty.
>>64320045How does you hobby drone change that?
>>64320047You can operate it from outside line of sight for starters
>>64320046So you live in a shithole that uses rusty Soviet junk?
>>64320028>muh drone counter-measuresEffective drone counter measures haven't been invented yet retard. What you think is effective based on company demos are not feasibly deployable to combat front lines to make an actual difference. Can you ever seen one of these counter-measures take out a saturation attack of drones approaching from a few feet off the ground from multiple directions? No? Why? Because the soldiers standing around will get fried by lasers and radiation in the process lol.
>>64320049Can you even operate it? Why can't Hamas just bring Israel to its knees with drones?
>>64320021If we were having this conversation in the 60s you'd be saying it'd all be missiles in the future and we'd have no more gun artillery or gun-armed tanks. You see a shiny new toy and think that's rewriting the book when it's just another chapter. People like you have no place in military discussions because you can't look backwards and laterally to see what's happened and is happening>>64320030First of all, good call on San Antonio, literally just moved out of that hellhole. Second of all, way whiter than you shit for brains. Third of all, you weren't saying that at all. You were saying firearms are completely impotent in the face of quadcopters and not something to be added to a militiaman's repertoire like night vision and land nav skills. If you had framed it as another piece of kit to add, I would completely agree with you. Knowing is half the battle so getting as many tools to acquire information is good
>>64320053Why can't Hamas just drone spam Israel then? Why can't Iran? Why can't the Houthis?
>>64320046Please do not mention wars where americans ain't the MC or relevant whatsoever, it hurts their feelings.
>>64320061Who do you think was pulling string to make Assad's regime to fall?
>>64320053Jammers have been stopping waves of radio-controlled drones since the ISIS days, and they're still doing it now in Ukraine. You need to stop conflating the fantasy of radio based drone swarms (FPVs can't even run more than 5-6 drones on the same sector without jamming each other because they're shitty hobby tech) with the reality of fiber optic FPVs.Those saturation waves? That's USA and China level stuff. You are going to have one fiber optic FPV, your buddy will have another, and the search squad from the state army will have a cloud of two hundred units of fifteen different autonomous killbots flooding the sky overhead and going door to door.
>>64319994Cope. There is more economic activity and tax revenue generated in communities with larger populations than communities with smaller populations. It isn't more complicated than that. >>64319991I'm not feeling oppressed by anything other than my bills. I didn't say Trump was a dictator destined to bring about the boog. I said that there is way more civil unrest and way more government intervention - the two halves of a boog - now than when Obama was in office. Therefore, someone that was pissing their shorts about a boog then, and not now, is a drooling brainlet even among the brainlet throng of LARPy dumbfucks that believe in the mythology of a 'boogaloo'.
>>64320067>Muh stringsAre those the same strings that tripled the cocaine production in Colombia and increased by 100 the heroin production in Afghanistan?
>>64320046What alternate reality do you live in? The SAA outright just collapsed and Assad fucked off. There was no actual fighting of that sort. The rank and file were not getting their salaries, international support was gone and nobody was willing to fight for Assad anymore.
>>64319997Literally this.... This entire argument, in both directions, relies on absurd strawmen and a total divorce from reality in one direction or the other. Knew this was going to be a shitshow as soon as I saw 'citizen soldier'. Insane how triggered some anons are by the whining of a single dronecel, and insane how much time and energy he has to keep propelling this debate forward.
>>64320081Why are you gish galloping? Do you think the USA had no influence in the fall of Assad's regime?
>>64320095If you can't give a good source and evidence of its importance then you're just bullshitting. I can do that, it's easy.
I have seen two types of dronefag in this thread.>drones are a good military tool, and can be effective in large quantities.and>MY DRONE BEATS YOUR RIFLE IN DA BOOG!the former is right. they may not be the perfect weapon, but they can still be effective. The latter is retarded and need to look in a mirror.
>>64320011Lmao, I have 0 plans of fighting the government with either muh ARs or drones. I just think that all the boog larpers who get sent seething over drones are retarded. You can tell theyre boog larpers by the way they suddenly start bringing up how drones are useless because the USG will just jam them out of the sky, etc. Their entire preconception of their effectiveness is defined by boog larp, which is why they immediately bring it up. The dissonance is really something.
>>64320103A good source? There's years of footage of the USA bombing Syria, the USA propped up the Kurds. The USA was working with Israel too. I don't think you know this conflict.
>>64320110The US has been droning random people for decades without showing any kind of result in Africa and ME, now they added the South Caribbean.
>>64320105Sounds like you're just looking for something incredibly inane to feel superior about. Both the hobby drones and civilian rifles aren't going to bring down a government.
>>64320117Where do you think you are
>>64320116We're talking about Syria.
>>64320123Hell
>>64320124Yes, and you can read about the 2024 collapse and what group was involved in most of the changes. Assad still controlled the main zones with cities and kurds were irrelevant in the changes of those parts.
>>64320140Yes, sounds like the government lost support from Iran/Russia, ran out of good stuff, the economy was imploding and the rebels took advantage.
>>64320104lpbp
>>64320116Makes you cogitate huh? If a superpower government can't win with drones, how are larping poorfags gonna do?
Not interested in their use as flying IEDs, but I do think a drone for ISR makes sense. What get?
>>64320316>winA lot of meaningless discussion starts with that word...Try to answer your post by using guns, cars, tanks, pencils, etc instead. (I'm not interested in your post)
>>64320329CCTV cameras and ISR drones adds a lot to situational awareness. Both were particularly relevant during the chaotic first months of the Ukrainian war, specially for urban combat.
>>64320329Honestly still trying to figure that out myself. Been thinking about just rigging together a more traditional fixed wing drone and mounting my thermal camera to it. However I'm about as tech literate as my grandpa so I have no idea how to go about building an RC plane, setting up a wireless video link, and set up some kind of tracking/ orbiting path for it where it follows me while circling around
>>64320331Try driving a car to the polls and vote with a pencil instead of larping about military revolutions nigger.>>64320329DJI Mini 4 Pro. It's 249g, about $750, excellent battery life (45 min with an extended battery vs 35 for most competitors), and has all the stuff except thermal. Buy some spare batteries like you'd buy spare mags.
