Why the hate for 30-30? It may be a controversial opinion, but seems like the 21st century has seen a torrent of skepticism toward the round by the "modernizers" in the gun world. They can't wait to call it "obsolete" and replace it with the hottest new trend of tomorrow.
no one cares
>>64324685>>64324694Fuck both ya mudda(s)
>>64324694>>64324703Oh pardon me for trying to actually have a decent thread on this hellscape of a board.
>>643246851894 is obsolete, no one cares.
>>64324708at least you apologized
>>64324715You deserve the world's worst purple nurple. And I hope you stump your toe really bad.
>>64324685It's a pretty low velocity cartridge that rainbow arcs at ~300yd and doesn't carry as much energy as it should, plus it's rimmed and round nosed. That makes it suitable for lever actions but made it hard to work with on more modern designs. Savage did make a pretty successful magazine fed bolt action that fired it, but it's niche remains as a legacy cartridge for leverguns, mostly the Winchester 1894.I don't think it is an unsuccessful cartridge given how readily available it is despite its age and new rifles firing it are still being made, but it is definitely obsolete. There is no practical reason to design a modern rifle that fires it, as opposed to 308 Winchester or even 7.62x39mm.>>643247107.62x55mmR is from 1891 and is still in front line infantry service. Difference is performance rather than age. It even shares the engineering downside of being rimmed.
>>64324685>Why the hate for 30-30?Contrarian idiocy. It does the job and for most of us, that's good enough. The rest squeal about paper stats and argue while never shooting enough for those stats to actually matter.
>>64324762No. Fuck yor mudda. TSSSSSSSSSSS
It's really great in a fast twist single shot where you can load pointed bullets. Basically a slightly higher performing 7.62x39 (that has the benefit of using standard bullet diameters and not the weird ~.311 eastern bloc ones). The neck of 30-30 is long because it was originally designed for covering the lubrication grooves in lead bullets but it translates nicely into modern times where you can load longer bullets
I'm not even a .30-30 hater. If an old .30-30 is what you have, it will work. So please give this question some real consideration. In a world where cheap .30-30 is over 80¢ / rd, what advantage does it provide that would make a new shooter choose a rifle in chambered for it?
Literally me out here with all my 32 Win Specials that nobody ever even remembers they exist.
>>64324685>like the 21st centuryNothing new about that, as long as cartridges have existed gun and ammo companies have been trying to one-up each other making the latest and greatest hot shit. People were arguing about other cartriges vs. 30-30 in 1900.If anything I think it has the opposite problem: some people seem to gravitate towards it today while other cartridges beat it in various ways--and I don't just mean the usual dickmeasuring of velocity and bullet weights. I mean practical stuff like cost, magazine capacity and legal compliance. .30-30 kills deer just fine, but unless you're shooting a family heirloom or you have a hardon for retro guns I don't really see a point in it.
>>64324818Tradition. Things are done a certain way. And we love it like that. And the autistic scramble for a few less bc points is ridiculous.
>>64324893Chasing the latest and greatest meme round and sticking with ye olde option just because are two sides of the same coin, so it's strange to see people debate them. Both cases are people doing the exact same thing: deciding based on emotion instead of practical matters. If you want to pick .30-30 because it gives you warm fuzzy feelings, what's wrong with some other person insisting on .299 Dragonfucker for the same reason?
>>64324818the advantage is that it's the chambering of a cool lever action that they want, and the ammo is on the shelf. As for why choose the 30-30 over .44 magnum, I'd go with thicker barrel walls. Every .44 I've seen has like 1/8" of barrel or less, goddamn flexy tubes whip all over the place like one of those wacky waving inflatable flailing arm tube men. I jest, but I did have a win 94 in .44 that would stretch and ruin the front barrel loop hardware, and all of a sudden the mag tube would be poking out an inch from the muzzle because a screw bent and a little nub had room to gouge its way out of a hole. In fact fuck the winchester 94 entirely, I'm a marlin man. I guess I like 'em stiff and smooth.
>>64324789Fuck yamudda
yeah you can't reply to the fuckyamudda guy, he just always says it again. He's all fired up today because of this great yeahpost >>64319087
yeah
>>64324911Novelty and tradition go hand in hand. There's an inherent tension between them. Some of us hew one direction over the other. We're not nearly as spectrum-y as novelty people, however.
>>64324685>A>Fucking>RimI wish .30 Remington was more popular.
>>64324685I am a .32-ophile, which extends naturally to anything between .30-.32 since most of the .32's i love are really .312 anyway. Leverguns are also raw kino so even moreso, but ive never had an itch to get a .30-30 so far
>>64324685so what round does what 30-30 does but better? What round makes it obsolete?I don't own a lever action so I don't know what 30-30 excels at but for me personally, I just always turn to 5.56 for my intermediate power needs. It recoils like a babys punch, its cheap, and it will kill most anything man sized or below with one even moderately well placed shot.
>>64325054>so what round does what 30-30 does but better?That depends on why you want the .30-30. If you want it for nostalgia, the answer is nothing. If you want to shoot game or defend your life and property you'll have to be a bit more specific about your question. I'd argue 5.56 is the superior defensive round for the reasons you mentioned, and also because it's better suited to modern auto-loading rifles. For hunting things like magnum pistol rounds or modern straight-wall AR cartridges like .350 Legend would likely make more practical sense.
>>64324685By the same token...
>>64324685optimization is the thief of joy. 30-30 is enough for most applications.
>>64324685This is the first I've heard that .30-30 is supposed to be obsolete and hated. At least in a long while.>>643247557.62x54mmR having a rim was kind of unfortunate for magazines, but actually very helpful for the extractor on a belt-fed machinegun where those other drawbacks don't matter.>>64324911>Chasing the latest and greatest meme round and sticking with ye olde option just because are two sides of the same coinIn a way, sure, but .30-30 is also pretty well proven. If you get a Winchester 94, Savage 99, or Marlin 336, and load it with those Hornady boolits with ballistic tips, you've got a rifle which is still very good for deer and other such game, the deer haven't exactly evolved a resistance to it.For some, they simply feel more comfortable with something older fashioned, and something like a .30-30 gives you that while still having quite a lot of relatively modern performance to work with.
>>64325259That's a subjective thing though, there are people who really enjoy the whole minmaxing game, like that's really fun to them.
30-30 is solid enough but honestly if I was looking at lever gun I would probably want a .357 or a .44 so i could share ammo with a revolver.
>>64324685>Why the hate for 30-30?Similar in size to .308, similar in performance to 7.62x39mm, and lastly, it's rimmed. Anon, no one hates it; they just don't talk about it. The Ferrari 125 S might look cool, but it isn't going to win any F1 races today.
>>64325558It's got a fair bit more oomph than 7.62x39mm
>>64324685no one hates 30-30people are either fine with it, or completely indifferent to it
I have a .30-30 barrel for my TC Contender and I love it. Spitzer projectiles are no problemo for it.
There is no practical reason to buy a new gun chambered in it in 2025. If you want a lever gun because you think they're cool that's fine but it's an obsolete cartridge
>>64325274>.30-30 is supposed to be obsoleteIt is literally obsolete in every sense of the word. There is absolutely no reason to be using it outside of "it's the gun I have" or "I have an entirely irrational attraction to lever guns".>and hatedNobody hates 30-30 and if you're getting any shit it's because they hate you, not your gun.>>64324755>7.62x55mmR is from 1891 and is still in front line infantry serviceBecause it's a machinegun cartridge. 30-30 isn't.
>>643253151892 is a much more practical gun
>>64324685Who hates .30-30? I'd just call them gay and move on. Literally a great cartridge that is still relevant.
what infographic is being spread around that tells people they HAVE to make a disingenuous OP to get traction on their thread?
>>64326664>30-30 isn't.Yet.
>>64326664>irrationalYou are a Communist.
>>64324685>is someone making fun of you for loving the ol' thuddy thuddy, anon?
>>64324685Brutally and completely mogged by 300 blackout supersonic
>>64326664There's no mechanical reason why a machine gun in .30-30 couldn't be made. I'm sure it would be possible with a Maxim design. There just isn't a reason to do that because it has poor performance compared to calibers like 7.62x54mmR, .303 British, .30-06 and 8mm Mauser. That isn't the end of the world out of a lever action that you would realistically only shoot out to 300-400yd but on a belt fed HMG or GPMG trying to put a beating zone down at 500-1000yd+ the limitations of that cartridge are going to gimp the machine gun firing it quite a lot.So the problem is fundamentally the lack of performance. Good enough for deer, but not war.
>>64329399Not really? Supersonic .300BLK is still a bit shy of 7.62x39mm (and actually very close to 7.92x33mm), while .30-30 Winchester still has a good bit more power than 7.62x39mm.>>64329418>There's no mechanical reason why a machine gun in .30-30 couldn't be made.It'd be dirt easy, you could probably theoretically convert an old .30-40 U.S Krag chambered Potato Digger.>So the problem is fundamentally the lack of performance. Good enough for deer, but not war.Partially, but you still could improve on .30-30 Winchester's performance by giving it a pointy bullet, given that it's going to be on something like a belt (or some hypothetical box mag or pan), where the bullet being pointy isn't a problem. It might still fall a bit short of even the .30-40, but it would definitely still have a LOT of power at closer ranges.
>>64329399Lole
>>64329399everywhere i see someone praise 300mlk i sense massive buyers remorse
>>64329418>There's no mechanical reason why a machine gun in .30-30 couldn't be madeThere's no reason a machinegun couldn't be made in .22 Short, except common fucking sense. x54R MGs actually exist in large numbers and are still useful.>>64327616You are a moron.
>>64329551Preposterous. A belt fed miniature M1919 in .22 would be an absolute riot to shoot. Cheap too. I'd buy the fuck out of one if I could.
>>64329431>.30-30 Winchester still has a good bit more power than 7.62x39mm.People keep saying this but I don't think it's true. Always heard it was about the same. Are you comparing equivalent barrels? No one shoots rifle length 94s only the carbine was popular.
>>64329587I mean an actual MG used for big boy MG things, not a toy. Toys open up a whole world of retardation.
>>64329524Confucius say:9mm PCC kill your ego300 blackout kill your wallet
>>64324685>They can't wait to call it "obsolete" and replace it with the hottest new trend of tomorrow.30-30 died because of baby boomers. They grew up with them from their greatest generation parents and refused to let their kids use it for hunting. We've got one in my family that I'll never inherit because my turbo faggot boomer "father" hates anything to do with my grandad or his kids in general. Boomers failed HARD at passing on the gun hobby it's amazing it still survived. Had GWOT not happened I honestly don't think it would have.Everyone I know that's a boomer hunter learned it from their grandad not parents. Hunting is damn near dead unless you want a paid harvest in some dudes field.
>>64329679Moomer hunter*
>>643296517.62x39mm from a 16" barrel would be about 2200fps with a 125gr projectile..30-30 Winchester can almost match that speed with a heavier 150gr projectile from a 16" barrel, but consider that 20" barrels are in fact very common for .30-30, and that the larger case capacity gives it way more room for powder and projectile size.
>>64324685are these haters in the room with you right now?
>>64329825>larger case capacity gives it way more room for powder and projectile sizeIf you're talking handloads, you can also push x39 and .300BO well past the typical factory loads. 30-30 is good if it's what you've got, that's about it. For every other case there's a better, and almost certainly cheaper, option.
>>64324685Rimmed cartridges cause a lot of magazine and feed design issues that don't exist with rimless, they are obsolete.You can still like obsolete things, a buddy of mine drives a model T.
>>64330248And .30-30's big case capacity will still allow for more powder and heavier projectiles than .300BLK if you're handloading.
People hate the 30-30? The 30-30 my dad gave me gas taken at least 1 deer a year since 1972
>>64330287It's very good at that. .30-30 rifles are also very elegant and attractive.
>>64330329Yeah, my dad's rifle is a Winchester. Didn't even get glass till he gave it to me in the late 00s. Pops smoking deer with irons for 30 plus years with it.
>>64324685personally i like it. I used some lever revolution rounds two years ago and made a 300yd kill on a mule deer with it. i think the biggest reason why it "fell off" was that it's pretty much just lever actions that chamber it nowadays. price of ammo is likely also a factor
>>64324685>buy $50 single shot .30-30 from lgs>rent AI reamer >buy Lee .30-30AI dies >Shoot sub moa groups with loads that are in .308 win territoryLuv me .30-30
hating 30-30 is foolish.
>>64329431>Not really? Supersonic .300BLK is still a bit shy of 7.62x39mm (and actually very close to 7.92x33mm), while .30-30 Winchester still has a good bit more power than 7.62x39mm.NTA but I compared some relatively similar (and common) supersonic loads between the two a day or two ago and 30-30 seems to have the upper hand at least with factory loads. Now I'm wondering why I don't just thread a Marlin even if I have to hand-load and still need flat-nosed bullets. And fuck I have so many project ideas for guns. Threading a Marlin would be cheaper than building a .300 either way but fuck if I haven't had a ton of projects pop up all at once.
>>64324685The only thing that bothers me about it is that they necked it down, thereby ruining a perfectly good .38-55. I don't hate it, but I disapprove of the downgrade.>>64324755>downside of being rimmedIt's not a downside if action strength and safety are priorities. Rimless was, and is, a compromise to make feed mechanisms easier to design.
>>64324685It is obsolete. That doesn't mean it stopped working, though
It's a great round, and anyone who says otherwise is a faggot who hasn't been deer hunting
>>64330275And its low pressure means that hot-rodding it is incredibly retarded when .308 Win is right there.
>>64324893>tradition Solid pointHere in Michigan 30-30 and 30-06 are super popular...because....tradition. theres countless threads posted here over time talking about how the 30-06 is obsolete toot. 180grain 30-06 enjoyer
I just wish the ammo wasn't so expensive for what it is. I have a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 that I bought 10 years ago to use as a hiking rifle. I love it to death, but it's not a rifle I really do much plinking with. If I could do it over again I would get something chambered in .357 or .308, but I'll never get rid of this riffel.
>>64324685It's good but 308 is better>light enough to be easily used on deer and hawgs>heavy enough to be used on 1000lb+ moose and grizzly>cheap and readily available ammo>viable in semi autos and manual actions, most rounds are only good at one>easy to shoot, noobs won't flinch as bad>is real fuckin nato
>>64329399Blackout is the gay version of 30-30x39 is the commie version of 30-30556 is the manlet version of 30-3030-30 is objectively the best intermediate cartridge ever made
>>64331809>notably leaves out the superior .308 big daddy
>>64331812308 is a short action full size rifle cartridge doe, I agree with >>64331796 it's definitely the best for that size. 30-06 is the best long action size
>>64331818What is a sa cartridge but intermediate? I feel like thats just splitting hairs
>>64331831A google has revealed i am wrong
>>64324685I see NO ONE saying what you're saying OP. I had a lever action 30.30. It kicked like a fucker but was nice and accurate. It's just kind of expensive.
The dirty thirty is a really good performer because the bullet is always matched to the task. Bullet optimized for expansion under 100m being always used under 100m. It’s always in its peak use case. You will never have the wrong loading with 30-30. Meanwhile zoomer hunters are wounding deer with their ultra high BC 160 grain 6.5 manbun loads.
>>64324685If someone started making the H&R handi with a rear peep and 16" barrel, I'd get it in 30-30. Perfect cartridge for that barrel length.Bottlenecked rimmed cartridges are best for single-shots and double-rifles. There's a bunch of rimmed European cartridges which I'd never heard of because break-actions are so popular there.
>>64331796>It's good but 308 is betterDoesn't really make sense to me to compare them. If I was considering a 30-30 then 308 would be unsuitable for the guns I'd be looking at, and vice-versa.>>easy to shoot, noobs won't flinch as bad308 is louder, flashier, and has more recoil than 30-30, it will make more people flinch. Neither is bad, but if you're hunting in timber and don't have earpro in, do you need all that extra noise?
>>64330734>Threading a Marlin would be cheaper than building a .300 either wayWhy not both? Don't listen to your wallet.>>64331355Sure, now, but .308 lever-action rifles didn't even begin to become a common thing until 20 years ago.
I really like my winchester 94. Very handy rifle. 30-30 is pretty cool.
>>643246853030 is the best rifle round ever and I'm tired of pretending it's not
>>64332164I got a single shot H&R for $50Has a 22" barrel that I've been considering chopping and threading but Idk
>>64325292>there are people who really enjoy the whole minmaxing gameReal life isn't vidya. The guys who are like that are like that about everything, they are the most joyless fucking people I've been around
>>64333318That's not how you pronounce 9x57mm Mauser. LOL JK
As a european I find it interesting that americans have popular calibres of civilian origin in hunting. It's my impression that people over here mostly use old military calibres.
>>64324685I don’t think anyone hates 30-30. It’s great grandpas deer rifle back when young gramps was running around with his new fangled 30-06 it was getting the job done just fine. But nowadays we have semiautomatic .308s nib for $1000 so it’s just kind of been made irrelevant.
>>64333754>people over here mostly use old military calibres.We do too. Lever actions in 44-40 and 30-30 just completely mogged anything the military fielded until the late 1930s so we have a history of using lever guns. 44-40 is the real secret since that gun was legitimately the best fighting rifle on the planet until the M1 Garand saw widespread adoption.
>>64333754>It's my impression that people over here mostly use old military calibres.I don't know what country you are from, but I can almost guarantee you that whatever rifle round is most popular in your country was being used by civilian hunters before it was adopted by the military. Rounds like 8mm Mauser, 6.5 Swede, 7.62x54mm R, 7.5 French, 8mm Krag, 6.5 Carcano, etc., were made by hunters and then adopted by governments, and they were used alongside other rounds that weren't chosen, like 7mm Mauser, 9x57 Mauser, 9.3x74mm, .375 H&H, .450 Nitro Express, etc.
>>64333674They certainly can be, I know of many, but it's not all of them.For instance, some people just want to, say, develop what they feel is THE perfect load for the .45 Colt revolver they got themselves purely for fun.It's not their home defense weapon, their hunting weapon, their service weapon, or competitive weapon, it's just an old fashioned weapon with some history and cool factor to it, which they enjoy shooting.
Lots of technical advancement in the last 130 years means that a serviceable military cartridge has had room for improvement.Better powder. Better bullet ballistic design. Better materials and manufacturing. Plenty of reasons you would not invent the same cartridge if designed today.1995. Was 50 years ago.
>>64333754There's lots of military calibers which became very popular on the civilian American market a long time ago.Cartridges like .45-70 Gov't and .56-56 Spencer were pretty popular, the former enduring particularly. Lever-action rifles had become very popular, but a gripe some had for a long while was that they just weren't as popular as people wanted, .44 Henry and even .44-40 Winchester weren't enough to some, why couldn't they made lever-action rifles in a cartridge like .45-70 Gov't? Eventually, that would of course happen..30-40 U.S Krag had a pretty short stint in the military, and after it was abandoned and eventually got surplused, the cartridge and its rifles ended up becoming a lot more appreciated on the civilian market for sporters and hunting.See, you could get a fairly good smokeless bolt-action rifle and its ammunition for not that much money, and if you were a gunsmith you could make fairly inexpensive sporters to sell to people, even Springfield Armory themselves started making sporters from surplus rifles, parts, and tooling, because people wanted them.
>>64329679My dad is tail end of the boomers and he passed hunting on to me. His own dad was kind of an ass though who was dismissive of my dad's newbie excitement. I'm glad my dad stuck with it and passed the tradition down to me.
>>64324685I have a Marlin 336 from the late 40s that I really love shooting (except for the ammo expense) but I can't use it for hunting because I live in a gay "straight wall" state. I keep pestering my state senator to change it but have had no luck. Too many retarded boomers who are vehemently opposed to necked cartridges for their perceived danger, when in reality the only people who cause hunting accidents are the boomers themselves who never took a hunter's safety course.
>>64329679>and refused to let their kids use it for huntingThey didn't though.
>>64324818All of its “shortcomings” are pros in small hollers and fields near civilization. Ppl using 30-30 are not trying to shoot even 200m.
>>64332373Oh absolutely I'm going to do both. But I have the following lined up:>getting a 22 WMR rifle, plus threading it (fuck stupid CZ US options, "every rifle is threaded...*except in US models")>getting hunting supplies I've neglected>getting a Beretta 80-series .380 + barrel + silencer>getting a .300 Mini (if it doesn't suck) + A-TM + silencer + scope>threading a Marlin + silencer>getting and putting together an MP5That's a good $5.5k right there at least. The 22 WMR rifle plus work plus scope is going to hit a grand right away. I have a spare silencer I think is 22 WMR rated I can use on it but I really want that silencer for a different rifle come Spring, so add, Idunno, like $500 or so in about 6 months. I'm fucking swamped on projects so threading a Marlin is way on the backburner, not to mention it needs a scope and silencer tacked on as well. I don't even have my shit together enough to hunt big game; I'm barely able to just hunt small/med game! Hunting comes around and I re-learn every year I need "just one more thing..." a lot during the season, so a lot of cash goes into that.
