a.k.a. euro central.This is a thread meant for discussion of draconian gun control practices seen all over the world and overcoming them.No one /pol/ cares about guns and discussing technicalities with them proved rather funny, they claim you can EASILY make industrial grade brass forming machinery and make ammo casings.Now, on topic: the question of regulating self-loading and repeating arms comes down to the ammo.It is evidently true that it is impossible to restrict primitive single shot weapons and primitive repeating arms (primitive repeating arms being cap and ball revolvers and revolving rifles, absolutely possible to do since it's viable to make caps at home from thin metal)But it is more than enough to ban the ammo casings to restrict the availability of self-loading weapons, because you need conventional ammo.We are assuming a worst case scenario where the state actually does their job, the black market is nonexistent and filled with feds. Basically, it's impossible for the average man to get a hold of ammo casings.I myself am Russian and have a ton of spent ammo casings sitting on my table right now. I have also successfully reloaded spent primers and reprimed those casings proving that it is viable, if a bit time consuming to make near factory grade ammo at home. I'm a bit afraid to link the exact compounds, but I believe people here already know them, I for example used the WW1 (the corrosive one), it worked well.But what if I was in Brazil? In brazil, ammo casings are regulated, blank guns (easily converted to fire live ammo) and blank ammo is banned too, and while it's true the crime is high and you can get a gun via black market, let's assume the state works. Actually, Japan is a great example: ammo casings are regulated, hence the assassin used an electrically primed double barrel pistol.CONT.
I'm not mentioning the actual gun part because what matters is the ammo. Also, pretty PLEASE, do not mention 80% lowers here, it is a royal american privilege derived from the fact that critical SPECIFIC gun parts are unregulated. It's useless against global gun control.We all know about FGC-9, Urutau, hybrid designs, machining, it's not really a problem and just takes time to get a gun. What matters is the ammo.>just 3d print it dumbass!WRONG.While yes, there is PIP (print in place) 9mm, but:1) its insanely weak, only good enough for plinking, the bullet is fucking PLASTIC2) you need a factory primer3) it does feed reliably but meh, if you put actual gunpowder there it's gonna end up badly
>>64361685While yes, there are polymer casings. BUT NOTICE THE BRASS SLEEVE? YOU AIN'T MAKING THAT AT HOME.The problem is that you're not fucking making industrial grade brass shaping machinery in your shed. Just no. NO. You could try maybe, and spend YEARS doing it and maybe you'll reach good results but it's not viable to supply small scale militias with ammo because it's so time consuming and probably hard to do clandestine.
>>64361694One may mention this guide. And I'm gonna tell you exactly why it's shit:1) you need blanks / factory primers. that's it. It's only viable for increasing the caliber of ammo that you already have. Read the full guide to understand why it's useless.Also, on nailgun blanks further on. It's an important part.
>tl;dr every country should adopt the 2A and be like New Hampshire, Florida, and Arkansas
>>64361700>Also, on nailgun blanks further on. It's an important part.About nailgun blanks:It's not as good as it sounds. Yes, it is a major loophole for extracting nitrocellulose but honestly? Black powder is enough. Militias don't care about some soot in their barrels. And yes, you can extract priming compounds out of them ASSUMING they're imported from the west. All nailgun blanks from China and Russia misfire on purpose so that they're not used in weapons. You need a really hard hitting hammer to ignite them, they misfire even at their intended use in nailguns.They also have troubles with extractions. Basically, poisoning the nailgun blank supply is pretty easy by banning their import. We have imported Hilti blanks at 3x the price of domestic ones, and they're supposedly are better. Simply gluing a bullet to the blank end / replacing the tip with it might not work for all countries.>>64361705For you: picrelated. You can bask in the royal privilege of gun rights, if you're american. For now, at least.
>>64361712I consider it part of my duty as an American to spread the message of universal, unlimited gun rights.To me, it is part of being an American, on the same level of importance as free speech
>>64361719>I consider it part of my duty as an American to spread the message of universal, unlimited gun rights.Getting a bit off topic, but my advice to you is protect gun rights in america first. The rest of the world is basically retarded, they don't want gun freedom. Only like 5% of people will MAYBE say it's a good idea to liberalize guns. Henceforth, protect america first because gun rights are not moot there. Repeal the NFA, GCA, do more constitutional carry states.
On topic of gun control: there is already a country with severely draconian gun laws: Brazil.Blank ammo? Banned. C O M P L E T E L Y.Blank guns? Banned.Ammo casings? Regulated, can't even take some from a shooting range.They have nailgun blanks that are made the same as live .22 though, so that's a bonus.Here in Russia it's not so grim but they're coming for it slowly but steadily. They will regulate ammo casings soon enough.
>>64361734>They have nailgun blanks that are made the same as live .22 though, so that's a bonus.Any good enough nailgun blank basically allows you to make "blank and ball" revolvers (blank instead of a cap).Basically, a cylinder that fits nailgun blanks on one side and bullets on the other. Like in a cap and ball revolver.There's a toy in Russia (not considered a weapon, muzzle energy per surface area of projectile below 0.5 joules per mm2) called Bulldog Kurs. It's basically that, but it has special gas holes that vent the nailgun blank gases so that it can't proper a RUBBER ball that you insert from the other side of the cylinder through an obstructed barrel (so that you can't fire metallic projectiles).
>>64361743>properproperly accelerateAlso, it only works with hiltis. All domestic nailgun blanks do not fucking extract.
>>64361725I do what I can as just a man in his late 20s.
>>64361675Good thread on a subject I know nothing about.Have a bump.
>>64362118Thank you!In summary, the bittersweet irony is that the technological pipeline to produce ammo casings (and ammo itself) is harder to implement than producing the actual gun they will be shot from.So if there was a militia war in a heavily regulated hellscape like Japan, it would probably be fought with electrically primed / caplock pistols to quickly neutralize the police and get a hold of their guns (its sad, but they only have revolvers there). Actually, now that we know it, electrically primed is the way to go. Caplock technology requires some chemical expertise the ability to buy antimony trisulfide in any form (be it stibnite/antimonite or pure powder like you can do in US) or doing some heavy wet chemistry to get lead hypophosphite for a more robust compound as the cap mixture. Or, you know, mercury fulminate which sucks, too sensitive, prone to degrade over time.
>>64361705In Florida frts and any speed increasing device is banned as is incendiary ammunition so you need to remove it from your ideal examples.>>64361685There is newly released 43r printable ammo for 3/8 pipe barreled guns, unaware of that and concurrently I had made .42 printable shells primed with capgun caps that were sort of functional if somewhat unreliable. There is progress being made, but there's no money in and stiff pressure in opposition to it.
Guns are banned in my country for anyone not military or police, simple as.
>>64362278>There is newly released 43r printable ammo for 3/8 pipe barreled guns, unaware of that and concurrently I had made .42 printable shells primed with capgun caps that were sort of functional if somewhat unreliable. There is progress being made, but there's no money in and stiff pressure in opposition to it.The question is, will it feed/extract reliably in a self-loading or a repeating manner? Will it not crack and release gases backwards if you fill it with enough gunpowder? Maybe make it extra subsonic by decreasing pressure on the plastic (decreasing the resulting muzzle velocity too), it will still be lethal if the projectile is metallic.
>>64362286What country?>>64362278>capgun capsalso, those will be unreliable because the compound in them does not have enough energy to ignite the gunpowder reliably. You could refill them or just use regular primers assuming you have access to them. In a worst case scenario percussion caps will be banned because they're literally primers.
>>64362323>>64362331I made them for a single action 3/8" pipe revolver I've been working on, if they don't fire I just try the next cylinder. Most of the effort has been going into the gun, the cap ammo is kind of an aside to get around the no primer problem. It isn't a problem for me though, I can buy all the ammunition and components I want legally.
>>64362323Oh and with putting .410, 45lc or printed shells in a 3/8 pipe you really can't get a gas seal, no matter how nice your ammo some gas comes out the back.
>>64362361>I made them for a single action 3/8" pipe revolver I've been working on, if they don't fire I just try the next cylinder.What machining equipment do you have access to? Mill, lathe? I only have regular power tools like the angle grinder, metal saw, arc welder, drill. No drill press though, very sad.Does your gun cycle the cylinder when you cock the hammer? Like, you need some special mechanism and cylinder indents for that. As in, do you have to turn the cylinder after each shot? Prof. Parabellum designs just like that. How aligned with the barrel your cylinder is? Making a revolver cylinder is not easy.. Without a drill press, that is.Based anyway.
>>64362394>designs just like that.are just like*Post images btw. This is exactly the thread for this.
>>64362394I don't have a mill or lathe, just a cheap drill press, some dremels, a bench grinder, but I'm pretty well fitted out with hand tools, files, bits.It's a fully diy hybrid printed design, just about ready for beta. Should be buildable with a hacksaw, vice, drill, files and screwdrivers with a dremel optional mostly to make a rifling button. Single pull of the charging handle rotates the cylinder and sets the striker. It's a pepperbox style so the timing isn't critical, but there's very little play when the charging handle is forward. It'd be possible to integrate a longer barrel in with a generous forcing cone but I don't want to sink too much into development at this stage.
>>64362463Oh, it's 3d printed! Very nice. How did you make the chambers? Reamer/drill bit?Is the trigger assembly from steel or 3d printed?
>>64361675Very cool thread OP. This is probably due to my inexperience but with all these concerns about not being able to get/make brass casings so easily, couldn't one circumvent this issue by making caseless ammunition? If further problems arise via inability to get/make primers, you could still run things just fine depending on the ignition system (for example, throw caseless ammo into a tube and use the same system that one Japanese assassin used). Could also probably achieve the same results via paper cartridges too now that I think about it.
>>64362554Nice idea.Though your picrelated clearly requires a primer (similar to boxer, you can see an anvil there that the priming compound is crushed upon)The problem with electrical ignition is the wire durability. You need a high resistance wire so that it heats up quickly as soon as current passes through it, something like tungsten (used in incandescent light bulbs)Also, coating the backwards of the bullet with gunpowder so that it doesn't fall off.. Some chemistry is neededIf using paper cartridges, how will it feed? How will you seal the chamber?
>>64361675
>>64362566I already have this saved, both parts.Making nitrocellulose at home is inviable when nailgun blanks are available. Plus as I've stated black powder is enough.Chemicals aren't the problem, the casing is. What's the using for gunpowder and primary explosives for the primer if you have nowhere to put them to?
>>643624943/8" pipe has an id around .48" so it chambers .410 which is .47" as long as you file out the seam in the pipe. I just used a round file. The bottom barrel is 1/4" schedule 40 iirc, I was buying lots of pipes to try to find one the same spec as some old scrap pipe I had that natively chambered .32. That one I chambered to .38 with sandpaper glued to a rod in a hand drill, then I button rifled it. It's possible to cut chambers like that but finicky and probably too much work for general hobbyists or people who just want to arm themselves, why I was looking for .32 id pipe. For accuracy though ecm is probably the way to go. I just use rifling buttons for legal compliance, I didn't do any math when I made them, just cut them by eye.Trigger is printed.
>>64362566btw this guide mentions using matchsticks for primer compound, it's less reliable than H-48 or lead hypophosphite. May misfire.>>64362570>I just use rifling buttons for legal complianceI forgot that SBS's are regulated in America. Very sad. Yeah, ECM is good but you need a pump and an arc welder for faster rifling..
>>64362578>btw this guide mentions using matchsticks for primer compound, it's less reliable than H-48 or lead hypophosphite. May misfire.also, forgot to mention. The guide does not mention drying the primers at all. If you just fill the primer cup with powder and then put it in the casing it will just pour over through the hole and you'll be left with an empty primer that does not ignite. You need to use a dropper with a 1 part shellac 10 part alcohol solution to drop a bit on the primer cup filled with powder, then let it dry 24 hours, then it will be rigid and won't pour over and will be basically a single unit.Source: I reloaded primers.
I’m not yuro, but my assumption has been that you’d basically have to mug a police officer or steal from the military. Whether a 3D printed gun comes into play is up to you but I couldn’t imagine jumping through all those hoops to have a working gun with questionable ammo. Also PSR is a fag.
>>64362564>"Though your picrelated clearly requires a primer (similar to boxer, you can see an anvil there that the priming compound is crushed upon)"I'm aware, was just showing off a cool example of caseless ammo in my post and do bear in mind I later went on to discuss about the possibility of not needing primers should the problem arise. >"The problem with electrical ignition is the wire durability. You need a high resistance wire so that it heats up quickly as soon as current passes through it, something like tungsten (used in incandescent light bulbs)"Noted, did not think of that, are there any more creative ways people have done to create a unique ignition system? >"Also, coating the backwards of the bullet with gunpowder so that it doesn't fall off.. Some chemistry is needed"Yeah I probably should've expected something like this, caseless ammo seems like it has a bunch of stuff going on in order to maintain its form. >"If using paper cartridges, how will it feed?When making the post, I was only thinking of non-magazine type firearms (revolvers, double barreled, etc) because I know magazine stuff would be complicated. Like I said, I'm quite inexperience in this whole thing.>"How will you seal the chamber?"I imagine probably something like the loading lever on percussion revolvers.
>>64362641>Noted, did not think of that, are there any more creative ways people have done to create a unique ignition system?There was a pump action low pressure black powder electrically primed shotgun. The plastic casing had a rim that came in contact with contacts in the chamber (or something like that) that then ignited the powder.>When making the post, I was only thinking of non-magazine type firearms (revolvers, double barreled, etc) because I know magazine stuff would be complicated. Like I said, I'm quite inexperience in this whole thing.Paper cartridges were used extensively with all muzzle loading firearms including cap and ball revolvers, yesI was talking about repeating arms
>>64362676>"There was a pump action low pressure black powder electrically primed shotgun. The plastic casing had a rim that came in contact with contacts in the chamber (or something like that) that then ignited the powder."Sounds very cool, have a name? >"Paper cartridges were used extensively with all muzzle loading firearms including cap and ball revolvers, yesI was talking about repeating arms"I made that comment to let you know that I really don't know any solutions, but it has only now popped into my mind that the Harmonica gun exists. Perhaps this is the answer?
>>64362713>Sounds very cool, have a name?It was on youtube, can't really remember. But it existed. Low view count>>64362713>I made that comment to let you know that I really don't know any solutions, but it has only now popped into my mind that the Harmonica gun exists. Perhaps this is the answer?Maybe.. Do you need to shift the thing after each shot?
>>64362762Carve the same pattern on it that spins the cylinder on printed revolvers like this >>64362463. Then you need some kind of trigger activated or manually pumped indexer thing to move it over between shots.
>>64361675>This is a thread meant for discussion of draconian gun control practices seen all over the world and overcoming them.Hue here. Will just share just a quick run up how commies grab guns. Read & learn:- 1932: Vargas dictator, after a mini civil war in the state of São Paulo, passed a law about caliber restrictions. Only .38 Special max, for handguns, and 12 gauge max for shotguns. However, you could ask a permit and do concealed carry.Result: everbody with cheap weak guns.- 1997: commie Fernando Henrique created Sinarm, a federal registration of arms, grabbing the register from county police to federal police, in the capitol.Result: more burocracy. Before it, the local police give you the permit. Now its made by some bbureaucrat 2.000 miles away. - 2003: commie Lula buys the congress, pass law 10826 in the last day, Now you need to ASK/DECLARE for owning a gun (in house or workplace, max 6 units) and/or PROOF OF NEED about carry (impossible to obtain). If you want non-restricted calibers, need to join a club, register as hunter, collector or shooter athlete, access the Army plataform called SIGMA and show frequency, pay a shooting range etc. Both plataforms, Sinarm and Sigma, ask for revalidation of each gun after 3 years.Result: 90% of shooting ranges killed, 7.000.000 legal guns into illegality (dropped to 200.000), carry is impossible, gun market 95% dead in the blink of an eye.- 2005: dictatorial plebiscite "Should the commerce of guns & ammo be banned from Brazil? YES or NO". The "No" won, 66%.- 2006 to 2016: criminality explodes (63.000 homicides/year), owning a gun is a colossal headache (almost Japan's level of cringe, but with Nicaragua levels of criminality).- 2017: Cartel tried to catch legal guns from a marksman tournament. Shooters ask for a carry permit, they receive a "transportation permit" (for only 1 handgun ready-to-use).Result: people tried to use it as a "full carry", because were afraid to get killed.Continue...
>>64362762>"It was on youtube, can't really remember. But it existed. Low view count"Noted, thanks though.>"Maybe.. Do you need to shift the thing after each shot?"Like manually pushing it with your hand? There were probably a couple where you needed to but there were also others where that wasn't the case.
>>64362713Probably talking about suckboytony
>>64362841Continue from >>64362841- 2019-2022: Bolsonaro won. The dictatorial 90 year caliber restrictions go down, using presidential decret (not law). Sinarm and Sigma got mad. Gun owning jumps from 200.000 to 1.000.000. Common Joe buying his first 9mm ever, farmers can now walk with shotguns and 5.56 carbines in their farms, and all gun validation owns for 10 years (instead of 3). Homicides drop to 40.000 (new record), with cartels receiving heavy damage from busts.Result: you still suffer to buy a gun, but there was still hope in the long run. - 2023: election fraud, Lula came back with bloody eyes. Kills the transportation permit + validations goes back to 3 years + caliber restrictions. Now you need PROOF OF NEED for carry AND owning.Result: gunowning witch hunt again and again, cartels burning the country down.TL, DR: never allow commies to reach power. They want us unarmed and dead. That was my story.
>>64361694You can't draw brass at home, but you could easily turn it. It would never be a financially viable method since there's so much waste, but the barrier to entry is quite low, you just need a metal lathe and a couple of tools.
>>64362890I assume you need a brass rod then? You can drill in with a lathe, right? It'd probably require some fine machining.. Especially the rim part
>>64362841>>64362887Very sad.
>>64362909Yeah, just turn it out of brass rod. You could even gather up the scraps and cast them into new rods if you're concerned with money over time and effort. None of it is particularly demanding machining, I'd recommend rimless cartridges rather than rimmed since it will save a lot of material, but either way a rim or extractor groove doesn't need to be incredibly precise and you'll have plenty of material to work with there. IMO the biggest problem would be the primer pocket since ideally that's the side you'd want to chuck, but that's still more of an inconvenience than a problem. Turn the pocket and groove first, then flip it around and bore the body, then run it through resizing dies to form the neck and taper.
>>64362967Okay... Let's assume casings are a-OK. What about primers? Primers are.. really small. Especially boxer ones. I doubt you can turn a berdan primed casings.. And boxer requires anvils.. They're so tiny.
>>64362984Could be done on a jeweler's lathe, but I think you're better off turning a punch and die to stamp them. You're on your own for finding something to fill it with though, I have no clue about that.
>>64362870Thanks anon!
>>64362984There must be viable cylinders available from other things, and an anvil doesn't need to be fancy, just a post would probably suffice.
>>64361675>gun control discussion threadYeah, it's off topic but the tranny mods allow their reddit pets to break the rules all the time so let's see if this thread hits page ten.
>>64363398Those wouldn't work, you need a fair amount of meat for the case head and webbing. The anvil is easy though, berdan style just leaves a little nub in the middle of the primer pocket.
>>64361675>DraconianPuhleese. In my cuntry, having an unlicensed weapon can get you THE DEATH PENALTY. All of you don't suffer.
>>64363414its not a thread about the laws, its a thread about making weapons with adversity. that rule is really about antifuns spamming up threads
>>64363499Jesus anon, do you live in Turkmenistan or something?
>>64363414>let's discuss how to physically circumvent gun laws and fuck gun controlhow is it off topic? ACTUALLY making guns from scratch (not 80% lowers, no ammo casings) has to be the coolest thing ever.>>64363420>The anvil is easy though, berdan style just leaves a little nub in the middle of the primer pocket.but then you need to drill 2 small holes, it's how berdan works. can you do that on a lathe? offset drilling? the workpiece is spinning
>>64365806the holes on berdan are not centered. drilling them would be tricky.. maybe with a dremel?
>>64365806>>64365837You're letting yourselves be constrained by what's shaken out as best for industrial processes. If you drill a primer pocket, then drill one narrow channel like a boxer primer, then use a chunk of rod the same diameter as the pocket and a little shorter than the depth. Rub some primer compound on the bottom and slide it into the pocket, put a touch of nail polish in the seam to keep it in there and it'll work as a primer. It just won't be a safe or as easily to handle as factory primers. Might need to shape the rod chunk come to think of it, you might loose to much force making a piston like that, maybe a wedge at the priming compound end.
>>64366070I kinda get what you're going at, like this?
>>64366425Yeah, but I don't think it needs the post, just maybe a chisle tip as a force multiplier against the priming compound.
>>64361743Neat, IIRC there was (is?) a similar gun that was made in Mexico at some point. Used a 22LR blank and a muzzle-loaded 22 caliber lead ball. I may be remembering wrong.
>>64362331>capgun caps unreliableNTA but don't people sometimes use those for BP primers when they can't find anything else? And I'm sure you could double up the guts of a cap (VERY carefully) to ensure it will go off and have enough power to set the powder off.
>>64366603I'm sure there was. It's really convenient to make the gun for nailgun blanks because they're readily available (assuming they are), you don't have to worry about making ammo, just put blank in and press the ball. I think it's not as popular though because due to the crime in Mexico ammo is pretty easy to come around there with no risk.>>64366615>NTA but don't people sometimes use those for BP primers when they can't find anything else?They do, but I think it COULD misfire.>And I'm sure you could double up the guts of a cap (VERY carefully) to ensure it will go off and have enough power to set the powder off.You mean fill it with more cap powder from other caps? Or fill it with normal primary explosive like H-48?
>>64362909NTA but some people into antique and vintage guns in odd calibers do turn their own cartridges on a lathe. It takes a long time but you can do it. The simpler the case, the quicker it's going to go. Anything straightwall without a bottleneck will most likely be easier. I wish I could find some videos I know I've watched but the YouTube search is not cooperating with me.>>64366621>You mean fill it with more cap powder from other caps?Yes. IIRC there's just a little disc of paper inside and people stack two in one cap.
>>64362278Florida cant uphold the ban. It would sink in federal court. Much is the case with other states and their other cutsie highjinks.
>>64361675I love when these examples of /k/ as it was and should be come by. Before the Reddit invasion, the catalog was full of these great threads and they were allowed reach their full lifespan. Now, you only need a single hand to count them and Reddit will delete these prematurely.
>>64366728>Now, you only need a single hand to count them and Reddit will delete these prematurely.Reddit banned fosscad and diyguns this month.It's grim, but at least we have /k/. The point of /k/ is that /k/ is american and in America it's legal to manufacture a gun for yourself so we're legally in the clear.>>64366715They're doing so many unconstitutional laws so that by the time they reach SCOTUS 5-10 years have passed. Look at California.>>64366648>NTA but some people into antique and vintage guns in odd calibers do turn their own cartridges on a lathe. It takes a long time but you can do it. The simpler the case, the quicker it's going to go. Anything straightwall without a bottleneck will most likely be easier. I wish I could find some videos I know I've watched but the YouTube search is not cooperating with me.I think we solved it. If only I had a lathe, even a cheapo chinese one.. I just want to try making ammo casings even though I have steel cased factory ones.
>>64361675this warning fills me with an intense and powerful urge to build this weapon and I dont even know what it is
>>64368096for (You)
>>64368119do you have the PDF for the garage luty?
You're all sick people. I hope you all get cancer. Fuck youse all. I put a curse upon you all. Fuck ya mudda
>>64366648>IIRC there's just a little disc of paper inside and people stack two in one cap.The ones I've been using have some maroon pressure sensitive primary covered by a piece of paper, it's kind of chalky in texture and can be picked out.
>>64368134Which one? There are multiple versions
>>64368134>>64368200Have both I guessold one by paladin presshttps://files.catbox.moe/jrb551.pdfdigitized, also includes .380/.32 conversionshttps://files.catbox.moe/iadymk.pdfThe problem with this book is that the dimensions are all in British pipe and metal sizingsYou might want to take a look at the pipe STEN by Professor P arabellum
Assuming you have access to a machine shop, you can basically make everything need yourself including turning your cases. Gunpowder and primers seem like the real bottleneck to me. I’m a chemestrylet so it seems unachievable to me without getting vanned. I don’t even know if it’s legal to make it at home in the US. Black powder seems a lot more accessible but you’re going to quickly foul an autoloading gun. Would be cool to see a black powder Sten with electrical primers - I imagine you could make an electrical priming system that closes the circuit when the bolt connects with the chamber giving an electrical equivalent to an open bolt with a fixed firing pin.
>>64366603https://collectorsfirearms.com/7687-mendoza-k-62-177p-22-blank-pr20909.html>>64361694I heard people are working on scratch made straight walled rifle cartridges, 45-70ish. Will be very interesting to see how that develops.
>>64362887>>64362841>TL, DR: never allow commies to reach power. They want us unarmed and dead. That was my story.This should be mandatory reading for every citizen.
bump
Fugg the bolice :DDD
>>64361675>CasingsIf you're in the sort of environment where you can't get you hands on traditional ammo, then the same can probably be said about guns. As such, trying to adhere to some sort of standard goes out the window.First, metal cases are not economical at all. You are better off with 3D printed cases, specifically resin printed telescoped cases because it lets me blend polymers. This is important as the biggest problem of 3D printed cases is actually not strength, but ductility. >tldrI won't do a huge write up, but despodited layered 3D prjnted cases have separation issues, and instead of the case slightly deforming under pressure, it just splits. This also causes cases to shred when you try and extract them. I repeat, YOUR CASES ARE BREAKING BECAUSE THEY'RE MECHANICALLY TOO HARD. YOUR CASES NEED DUCTILITY IN ORDER TO NOT CRACK. Using a resin printer, you can mix more elastic resins with high strength resins to get blends that actually withstand to 5.56 pressures, believe it or not.In terms of general design, rims and what not, they're just hard to engineer around and the NGSW's novel rimless design seems to be the solution. I have solutions in the works involving multi stage prints, that use washers to reinforce the rims, but if I'm designing a gun from the ground up, I'd rather remove the rim, or use a heavily reengineered extraction system.In terms of projectiles casting lead is cheap and easy. 3D printed sabots with special made flachette inserts are damn good too.Propellant and primers, biggest problem. I'm looking into electronically primed cartridges myself but more work is necessary and it radically affects what kind of, and how you build your gats.
>>64372194>I won't do a huge write up, but despodited layered 3D prjnted cases have separation issues, and instead of the case slightly deforming under pressure, it just splits. This also causes cases to shred when you try and extract them. I repeat, YOUR CASES ARE BREAKING BECAUSE THEY'RE MECHANICALLY TOO HARD. YOUR CASES NEED DUCTILITY IN ORDER TO NOT CRACK. Using a resin printer, you can mix more elastic resins with high strength resins to get blends that actually withstand to 5.56 pressures, believe it or not.Will something basic like Ender 3 and special filament do?Thank you for write up
>>64372194>Propellant and primers, biggest problemYeah, a 3d printed casing still needs a primer.. I wonder if it'll detonate if you just 3d print a pole like here>>64366425and then cover it with primer solidified primer compound
>>64372231Gotta be resin, because of how the layer splicing/fusion works, as well as the mechanical properties you get out of resin that you don't get out of thermomold plastic.>>64372237Cup and rod design is completely novel. From an engineering perspecivd, it actually could, just becomes question of material sourcing.Ive been looking into electrical priming as a solution to avoiding chemicals entirely, as well as exploring how it affects burn rates of less than desireable propellants like black powder.Basically seeing if I can get smokeless like performance out of black powder by increasing the surface area of my priming ignition.
>>64372459>Gotta be resin, because of how the layer splicing/fusion works, as well as the mechanical properties you get out of resin that you don't get out of thermomold plastic.so potentially resin casings will extract and feed reliably? interesting>Propellant and primers, biggest problem.not really, I thinkyou don't really need a lot of muzzle energy or velocity to kill or maim someone, black powder can deliver 200-250 m/s which is enoughbarrel grime doesn't matter, though I hope it wont maim the 3d printed receiver if fired from an FGC-9primer compounds are MUCH easier to make than making NC gunpowder, just mix antimony trisulfide and potassium chlorate, both unregulatedif you cant buy pure antimony trisulfide buy it in its mineral form which I did and it workedwhen mixed even in 50/50 it explodes violently upon impact, handle with care, do not mix more than than 30 grains per batch
>>64372849Resin cases when you're using the right mix of resins, don't rupture along deposition layers. Extraction is a different story, and you typically need a specially designed rim to extract without tearing the case apart. Or you use a manual action/system that doesn't actually use a rim to extract.Revolvers are actually one of the perfect solurions, because your "rim" can be as big as needed to prevent the case from sheering at the rim, and if you have a telescoped case, in a revolver cylinder you don't have to worry about blowing off the rim of the cartridge at all. Hell, you dont technically need a rim.Another better (in my opinion) solution is to not even have a rim on your case, as mentioned. I don't have acess to the design files, but Im messing with a forward extractor design thats basically... Take your chamber, now cut a groove into it. At the front of this grove you have a spring loaded lever that sits and pulls the case from its head. Think an external extractor on a 1911 but its actually a part of your chamber. When your bolt comes back, it actuates on that extractor lever, pulling your case out. Theres better, closer approximations but I don't have my notes.Now mind you, this entire design depends on a telescoped case, but... Its a telescoped plastic case I'm 3D printing.As far as propellants go, you can get good results from black powder, but what I want is near smokeless rifle performance from something safe. To that there might be addatives that if you can solve the burn rate issue with black powder, might open a lot of doors, but its still tthe biggest issue because black powder is filthy.I want to explore electronically actuated firearms when I have the time, but thats outside the realm of my thesis research. Right now I'm committed to cartridge research.
>>64362566>picdo euros seriously?why don't they just go down to Walmart and buy some ammo
>>64362158>>64361675An idea to make more effective weapons in a place where you can't get brass cases is to make a disposable barrel with stacked loads like a roman candle, basically 3d print a sleeve that fits into a section of seamless hydraulic tubing, with 5 or so shotgun loads stacked sequentially inside, with gaps in the plastic for metal contacts to be fitted, the barrel can then be locked into a grip with a battery and trigger, you fire off the shots sequentially, when empty just remove the barrel and slap in a fresh one. You can make different versions with buckshot or slugs, or something like a rifle grenade that fits onto the same grip module
>>64373035So rimless cartridges can't be 3d printed?Will rimmed cartridges feed in something like an FGC-9?>Another better (in my opinion) solution is to not even have a rim on your case, as mentioned. I don't have acess to the design files, but Im messing with a forward extractor design thats basically... Take your chamber, now cut a groove into it. At the front of this grove you have a spring loaded lever that sits and pulls the case from its head. Think an external extractor on a 1911 but its actually a part of your chamber. When your bolt comes back, it actuates on that extractor lever, pulling your case out. Theres better, closer approximations but I don't have my notes.That would be quite hard to implement, drilling even a basic chamber is not an easy task>>64374898>An idea to make more effective weapons in a place where you can't get brass cases is to make a disposable barrel with stacked loads like a roman candle, basically 3d print a sleeve that fits into a section of seamless hydraulic tubing, with 5 or so shotgun loads stacked sequentially inside, with gaps in the plastic for metal contacts to be fitted, the barrel can then be locked into a grip with a battery and trigger, you fire off the shots sequentially, when empty just remove the barrel and slap in a fresh one.If I understand you correctly.. How are you going to ignite the powder if they're stacked in sequence?
I linked this thread on /pol/ (sorry)Expect a wave of retards, but some will actually stay and participate
>>64362890You could turn a few brass shotgun shells and reuse them hundreds of times. A chink minilathe could this.
/k/ discussing American gun control vs. /k/discussing gun control everywhere else
>>64375704>You could turn a few brass shotgun shells and reuse them hundreds of times. A chink minilathe could this.No doubt, just need a lathe..Also, a long time ago the casings were made from copper because earlier primer mixtures corroded brass (or so I read)Copper is viable tooYou can't regulate copper and brass rods>>64375753kek
>>64375521Rimless casws can be printed, but in a semi autonatic action, they like to shear at your deposition lines even when resin printing. Like I said, you can add metal reinforcement for added strength that prevents the shearing but its more work.And drilling a chamber isn't hard either, especially if you're printing a telescoped cartridge. You can use an end mill to drill out your chamber,bthen using a taper cutter, you can cut an ever so slight taper in your chamber using a taper cutter.Chamber size is uniform because your case is a tube basically. And the taper is to aid extraction, though you could make a tool to electrochemically cut flutes a la the G3 that would do a much better job.As for the groove itself, all you need is a small endmill to drill out the notch necessary for your internal extractor. Man, the rest is just designing your bolt. Yeah, it takes a bit of hand fitting tomake the extractor, but I've made em out of steel without issue.The point isn't to make a better mousetrap FGC9 in 9mm shooting blackpowder, the point is to make a FGC556. Its like, the Lutty was a statement which was "you cannot effectively ban guns when out of sheet metal I can make a gun". The FGC9 is very much an evolution of that statement, and everythibg since then has been an expression of that. My research is the word of god saying "I double dare you". To that end, you get some mechanical complexity but dude, you're going through all this work to build a gun and procure ammunition. Why settle for an acient history SMG when a rifle and a completey unregulated across the country optic changes history?Yeah, I have flexibility in my engineering being American, but theres a massive advantage to telescoped cases and the inherent additional complexity, in that you get P90 space magic from a telescoped case, along with some traded off ease of manufacturing.
>>64375997but black powder is capped with pressure? you need NC powder (because the pressure jumps 2x or 3x when you add only a gram) to reach high enough pressures to reach rifle rounds velocities, no?and what about locking the breech? blowback won't cut it
>>64375997>And drilling a chamber isn't hard either, especially if you're printing a telescoped cartridge. You can use an end mill to drill out your chamber,bthen using a taper cutter, you can cut an ever so slight taper in your chamber using a taper cutter.it's just hard to do when you only have a power hand drill and some REGULAR bits, no reamers no mill no drill pressI tried and while the regular 9x19mm casing fit it was sticky, you also need a hone to polish the chamber
>>64373035If the ammo can't be made as required the gun can be made to work around the ammo. Hulkhogan made a printable action that will fire four chambers semi auto, even if your ammo has a one in four fire rate you can get a shot off. People have been iterating on it in some cool ways.
I think we need a clear definition on what gun is "enough" for clandestine militia purposes>>64376106this looks enough to kill a cop and get their gun but not enough to siege a military base to get military grade assault rifles
>>64376116Why would you siege, when you can ambush patrols and do small raids?
>>64376051Yes and no, black powder is limited in pressure when you use a traditional primer because of the fluid dynamics of how your powder burns when you're burning powder from the bottom, up.What I've found is if you increase the width of your case, you can burn the same amount of powder faster, by increasing the surface area od your priming detonation. Think boiling a pan of water, vs a long pot. Same amount of heat, but the more you can distrivute it, the better.Taking that to the next step is electric priming which Remington once upon a time, tried out. All they did was plug a copper puck into the primer port of a traditional case and called it a day. What Ive done is use a full rod inserted into the body of my case to increase the surface area my black powder gets to the primer. This causes more black powder to detonate immediate, causing that pressure spike necessary to get more velocity.>>64376058Then you need to invest in a drill press. If you can afford a 3D printer, a drill press is much less expensive and with the right tooling, can do quite a bit. A used drill press can be had fairly cheap, the older, the better. Old machines just work, and can do primitive machining if you've got the tooling.
>>64376163true. theoretically you could ambush the trucks delivering the weapons/ammo from the factory or the factory itself>What I've found is if you increase the width of your case, you can burn the same amount of powder faster, by increasing the surface area od your priming detonation. Think boiling a pan of water, vs a long pot. Same amount of heat, but the more you can distrivute it, the better.but increasing the caliber decreases the force affecting the bullet because:P = F/SF = dP*S where dP is pressure differential between atmosphere and the casing, S is bullet surface
>>64376192>but increasing the caliber decreases the force affecting the bullet because:nvm im retarded didnt notice the equasionits a net positive overall, more surface more force acting on a bullet, more acceleration (assuming mass is the same)
>>64376168do you know how the pressure drops btw? like dP(t) = ?its essential in determining how the bullet will fly but I have a feeling it's been all done before in some nifty ballistic calculator program
>>64362618thisyou will need to divert supplies. smuggle, bribe, steal, etc. no way around it. stop trying to invent everything lonely autist.if someone wanted to create their own supply chain in minecraft machinists do in fact exist and its not complicated to make the dies for brass cases in comparison to inventing a new technology for them. there are videos online of gun factories in various shitholes, making a lot with very very little.
>>64376468also plastic cases are absolutely viable in low pressure. SHOTGUNS ARE THE WAY.>cheap and easy as fuck to make>bypass armour>same power as a rifle in a low pressure caseforget about anything else desu. but a low pressure pistol case is probably also viable.
>>64373043fuck you
>>64376468>stop trying to invent everything lonely autist.what if I told you we're the minority? at least in our countries, we're not talking about US herewhat if I told you that thinking that gun control is bad will get you denied a firearm license and you will be deemed mentally ill? (source: my case. I was denied my gun license because I that gun control is bad)>if someone wanted to create their own supply chain in minecraft machinists do in fact exist and its not complicated to make the dies for brass cases in comparison to inventing a new technology for them.what exactly are you talking about?brass forming? industrial brass forming? again, you're not doing that alone. and you're NOT finding anyone who can help, oh NO, the only people you can find will gladly snitch on you.we already discussed that it's viable to either 3d print or turn casings on a lathe, but you're not making an industrial brass forming press in your shed alone>>64376507he's clearly joking
>>64376468>divert supplies. smuggle, bribe, steal, etc.all of that is more 100 times more dangerous than just making a gun from freely available precursors (e.g. power tools, 3d printer, brass rods, lead, chemicals..)
>>64376516>but you're not making an industrial brass forming press in your shed aloneIf you have a lathe it's not hard. A couple companies literally started that way.
we need to define what exactly we want and where do we want it. the problem is that all the pro gun people are smeared all over the world and they want good gun laws in THEIR country. "just move to US and defend gun rights there" is not an option (at least for most people, as for me I'm doing it the second I can because I'll probably have a chance at it in the next 10 years)we are doomed to fail, it's very grim>>64376531keyword is companies, company is multiple people, who are getting paid to do it and have the appropriate skillsthe people who are willing to put their life to feed the tree of freedom and fight gun control are not numerous and might not always have the required skills
>>64376544I'm inclined to believe that it's not the gun that matters but peopleif people were motivated to kill tyrants and abolish gun control it'd already happen, the gun technology doesn't really matter although it is nicediscussing reliable clandestine militia recruitment and tactics is more important than getting the gunalthough that literally makes you an extremist terrorist separatist (all of which are illegal in my country.. damn)
>>64376544Companies STARTED. They did not start as large groups. They started as individuals working in their garages, sometimes with family and close friends, and grew to be what they are. Bertram Brass was literally a guy and his son with a surplus press in their garage.
>>64376563assuming it's legal. do you think it's easy to find a buddy who won't snitch on you and will support the cause until the very end?
>>64376516>>64376523>its more dangerous/snitchingcriminals can make guns but they still get them other ways. its not scalable to make. id actually argue its more risky buying all that shit in your country instead of hopping over where things are less strict. it really depends. just dont ignore your advantages. maybe true that people are more complicated to deal with than inventing everything from scratch.https://youtu.be/veGrHZC0Xicyou dont need a huge machine its just some dies and a lever
>>64376590vidrelated literally has heavy weight industrial machinery. it would take years to build that at home assuming you're doing it solo.>id actually argue its more risky buying all that shit in your country instead of hopping over where things are less strict.smuggling? riskyagain, the problem is the peoplelet's assume you have a steady gun supplywhat now? you need men, and recruiting loyal men is near impossible, everyone is zogged, people are afraid to break the tiniest laws and what you're talking is TREASON, EXTREMISM, TERRORISM, SEPARATIST. this is how you will be labeled by media and how the police/feds will look at you. they won't think of you as a freedom fighter because you 3d printed some guns, made ammo and recruited some guys. the response will be brutalI'm really sorry because this is off topic
>>64376604im not interested in militia building or crime but the clandestine logistics side is intruiging as a thought exercise. the game of politics and power is something else compeletely.yes a big heavy machine is driving it but its still a die and a press that can be still be driven via a lever. they are a factory.you should watch some crime documentary or read some cases. the most common way of crossing is the sneaky attachment of X plus a tracker to a vehicle that is known will cross. thats the most braindead and easy to get caught way yet still works sometimes. please dont do anything but use your imagination a bit or watch a james bond movie or something if you are curious.
>>64376248I don't have the tooling to properly measure chamber pressure just yet. I got the gauges, I just need an actual setup to try it out. Plan right now is to see if I can get my hands on an Etronx bht for the lifr of me I cant fucking find one.>>64376198Its less about the force acting on the bullet, and more the fact that if you're able to combust more black powder, faster, you have a more rapid expansion of gas at the chamber, which translates into a faster projectile, that needs less barrel to achieve desired velocity. Because its a hotter combustion, you get a cleaner burn, but desu its still fucking filthy. Cordite is infinitely better all things considered.
