Czechia's last T-72's are being donated abroad. Are they better than the average T-90?
>>64373630Since the average T-90 is a T-72 with a different (theoretically modernized but at this point who knows) turret, these are probably going to be better. They'll actually have working western electronics inside of them, and weren't stored in Siberia for thirty years.
>>64373630>western powerpack (bong engine + allison automatic transmission)>western FCSThat alone makes it better.
>>64373657>>64373661All 30 Czech T-72's also JUST finished a three-year deep modernization program.
>>64373657to be fair the puccian t90s are also full of western electronics.
>>64373677Consumer chips isn't the same as complete modules bought from Thales or similar.The old M had Thales Thermals but the current "M1" or "M2" lacks some components or they're using locally made optics that maybe is on par with the 1990s thermals made by Thales.
>>64373630Considering the average T-90 is a burned out husk in Ukraine with what's left of the turret 50+meters away, yeah.
>>64373630is still has the shitty cast T-72M turret and the equipment is on Leo 2A4 level at best, obviously it's going to be worsealso the gear is often stripped from most sensitive technologies like the BMS or support for certain waveforms in radiosnone of that matters of course because both will be used in the most retarded way possible
>>64373630>A CITV with hunter killer capability>On a T-72M modernization from the early 2000's Actually pretty fascinating they prioritized that capability so much for that time period. The age of the upgrade package (and that it was being applied to an export model T-72) probably has it lagging behind the T-90M if we're being realistic. But probably not as much as it might look going just by on paper specs. I trust Czech build and refurbishment quality to not be hot shit in general. And certainly loads better than most of the soviet and (barely) post-Soviet tanks the Russians are predominantly using in reality. Still slav jank, but looks like a good tonk.
>>64373630that shit doesn't even have infra red?
>>64373917They replaced the whole soviet FCS, it has MWIR and LWIR.Selex Galileo TURMS/T Fire Control System
>>64373689they use fr*nch thermals don't they?
>>64374058The T-90s? They did/were going to use them, but sanctions fucked them on that
>>64374058France established some cooperation with the Russian MIC during the 1990s to 2010 period, that included the Thales Catherine-FC with thermals and a license/ToT like 20 years ago. In current year both Russia and Ukraine can make thermal cameras by their own (plus imported COTS chips). Not super high spec but still better than any soviet optics.
>>64374079>France established some cooperation with the Russian MIC during the 1990s to 2010 periodAnd people give Merkel shit for buying Russian gas.
>>64374058They used to. Then, FOR SOME REASON, Thales stopped selling them any more.
>>64374103The West was in a state of willful ignorance about Russia during the 90s. People were desperate to pretend they were going to become a developed civilized nation, not a tinpot oil barony, to the point they basically were given a free pass to do whatever they wanted as long as that wasn't chimping out or claiming to be commies again.
>>64374079>>64374114Speaking of Thales, they've started mass production (and delivery to Ukraine) of their own alternative to APKWS, only optimised towards being a sort of ultra-light anti-drone missile.They're aiming to produce 3,600 missiles before the end of the year, and 10,000 next year.
>>64374163it was a glorious time of cheap ammo and 300 dollar saigas.
>>64373630>babiš: we will cut all Ukraine aid!>also babiš:
>>64373630more drone bait
>>64373769Despite what /k/ thinks or believe, Western is not always superior to Slavshit equivalents. Malaysian PT-91M Pendekar, Viet T-90S, and Thai Oplot/VT-4 are superior to monkey model Abrams without DU armor (same as what Arab cunts like the Saudis, Egypt and Iraq use which have been lost in great numbers) Leopard 2A4 with body kit.As it is right now PT-91M Pendekar is probably one of the most capable T-72 derivative tank out there. Even when compared to the much newer T-90M, Pendekar has better reverse speed and better gun (with MRS. only newer version of T-90M has MRS). With upcoming SLEP that includes new FCS and possibly CITV we could have said something that can hold its candle against other much newer tanksOne of best contributions of Malaysia's military efforts is to combine the best of the Soviets and the West. The Malaysian version of PT-91 are more different than Polish one and have included some pretty extensive upgrade possibly makes it among the most capable T-72 variant available. Instead on using a standard one, they following the Malaysian design by mix and match various East and West equipment like M2HB HMG, Germany tank tracks, Malaysian spectral camouflage system and Polish ERAWA ERA.>French SAGEM gyroscoptic SAVAN-15 Fire Control System, similar to that used on the Leclerc>EADS 3-axis gun stabilizer coupled with the ability to shoot GL-ATGM>Belgian FN Mag + M2 HMG>SS1C "Obra" laser warning receiver>PM Dezamet 84mm Grenade Launcher>Slovakian 2A46MS gun, 20% better accuracy than basic 2A46>Malaysian thermal camouflage optronic systemand last but not least,Malaysia army has integrated network-centric operation via MEASAT 3B communication satellite that have 4x X-band transponder for military usage, so PT-91M have higher situational awareness than M1A1.For about half the price of an Abrams those modernized PT-91M is good to at least stand toe to toe with M1A2 SEPv3/Leopard 2A7
I honestly dont understand Malayposters
>>64374606We should have bought Korean, dude. The PT-91 is a dead end with no upgrade path and Poland no longer making them.
>>64374163>The West was in a state of willful ignorance about Russia during the 90sThe Russians had a chance to join western civilization and threw it away. The atmosphere from 87 to 91 was very hopeful, and people genuinely wanted to believe the end of the Cold War meant the end of the 1st/2nd world division. Don't hate us for daring to dream.
>>64374606Malaysia strong?
>>64374619It's basically a copypasta at this point.
>>64374606>Malaysian PT-91M Pendekar, Viet T-90S, and Thai Oplot/VT-4 are superior to monkey model Abrams without DU armor (same as what Arab cunts like the Saudis, Egypt and Iraq use which have been lost in great numbers) Leopard 2A4 with body kit.No they arent. Even DU-less basic armor abrams have protection vs shaped charges that is way beyond what a PT-91/T-90/Oplot has. And they have far superior ammunition stowage. 95-97% of the attacks on the battlefield will come in the form of shaped charges. The era of the tank gun as a primary anti tank weapon is more or less over.
>>64374772tank guns have never been the primary anti-tank weapon
>>64374717There is an overlap between pasta and insanity tho
>There is an overlap between pasta and insanity
>>64374103>>64374163>The West was in a state of willful ignorance about Russia during the 90sTo some degree, it continued until the 2010s in many countries. Even in places that were never touched by the rusgol hordes directly, many boomer social democrat types always held pretty weird delusions about Russia and Soviet Union.I suppose they were getting old enough that they just couldn't process being wrong all that time, or were already too deep in cooperation (aka Gazprom stocks) to back out in disgrace. Maybe they remembered that one time they visited St. Petersburg on a Socialist International trip as impressionable youths, where they saw the things they were meant to see and were deeply impressed by them. Even now, many of them clearly struggle to explain their past actions.Maybe the MIC cooperation kept some Euro military industries going during the post-Cold War era of budget cuts and aborted projects, at least.
>>64373661>western powerpack (bong engine + allison automatic transmissionOh is that why the back looks so different?
>>64374517Something something it's not aid, it's a trade
>>64373630https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuQSL5SdIvIIt's still an OK-ish tank by Western standards.By the standards of modern T-72/90s after 2000, this is a high modernization level.- Transmission and poveplant unit. Those surpass the capabilities of the T-90 for sure.- Optics and search system.- Fire control system.- Systems of communication and data integration.Both are from similar western origins. However, I dare say that M4CZ has a higher level of integration and at least slightly better capabilities.- Passive protection. DYNA has better abilities than KONTAKTBoth tanks have the same design problems and level of protection, regardless of whether the turret is cast or welded.
>>64374650yeah that's the accurate take. Yeltsin got shitfaced with ol' President Splooge Stains and the western world thought that maybe the russians were actually human beings and not just subservient communist hoards. Turns out russians are more like cattle who really enjoy having their assholes filled in by revanchist dickweeds.
>>64374517Maybe he wants Abrahams in return.
>>64374103Yes, but everyone expects the frogs to sell to anyone no matter what because of their history.Obviously a East German socialist being retarded isn't much of a surprise either, but it's not as much of a time proven fact.
>>64373630>T-72 with NATO flagThere's something oddly beautiful about that. Like those swapped nation livery art, but in real life.
>>64375518Western-manufactured Su-33 with western avionics probably would be actually good. I hope once the ziggerian shithole collapses, whatever gaijin-shogun NATO puts into the Kremlin will ensure the survival of the Mi-17. Some Western helicopter manufacturer could make these for the next half a century, and it would be a reasonable buy.
>>64374606>PT-91M Pendekar is probably one of the most capable T-72 derivative tank out there. Even when compared to the much newer T-90M, Pendekar has better reverse speedHow the fuck do poles manage to build a T-72 version with better reverse speed then the russians. The guys that actually designed the shit from the start cant figure out how to reverse faster then 3-5 km/h ever since 1971 when they started field testing and 1972-73 when they started serial production?Is there even ONE domestic russian T-72 that have good reverse speed?
>>64374526It's not russian, retard. Dronefags need to get the rope.
>>64375239We already got shitty Leo 2s that still have to be paid for in premiumFucking kikes could've given us Merkavas, but no, we have to get shitty hardware and be boring as shit
>>64375739>How the fuck do poles manage to build a T-72 version with better reverse speed then the russians. Simple, same Rolls-Royce Perkins V12 as the Challenger 1, same Allison automatic transmission as the M109, these are alien technology to ziggers.
>>64375739>>64375794I still don't get how the Russians can't make a new transmission for the T-72/90? Is there some kind of space constraint specific to the transmission?
>>64375803Apparently they'll add a gear reverser to new T-90s (same max forward and reverse speed)
>>64375770>weYou have neither Leo 2s nor Merkavas, pidor.PS: The schizo obsession with the jews isn't doing you any favours for pretending where you're from.>>64375803It would mean developing an entirely new transmission, and then committing to creating a production line for it. Tank is fine, money can be spent on another dacha isntead.
>>64375803Anon, that's like asking why the Russians can't design a new space plane, space laser, state of the art fighter or Makarov replacement. All losttech,
>>64375739>reverse speed
>>64375817Are you fucking high off your balls, a schizo, or you have major reading disorder? Or all three?>https://english.radio.cz/czech-army-gets-first-german-tank-part-swap-deal-8770327
>>64374606It's really funny how non of these GenZ summerchild posters know about this copypasta, kek.
>>64379872
>>64376458(You) aren't czech, pidor. Kys.
Why do ziggiee think about interracial sex so much?
>>64380158Because pidorstan is one of the most multiethic nations. Their best fighters are chechens (muslims), their industrial capacity comes from germans who were settled along the volga, their only european port is essentally ethnical finnish, kaliningrad is a mix of polish, lithuanian and german, 2/3 of their land mass is inhabited by mongols, their strongest international allies are latinx and backwater–backwater african, and they keep importing norks, chinese, indians, middel easteners, africans, and cubans to fill their production and frontline gaps. So as a russian, you are either fucking (or rather getting fucked by) a foreigner or you are fucking your sister. And as russions are people of humiliation, theur project their reality on civilised nations
>>64374797>tank guns have never been the primary anti-tank weaponReally? Why does US army tank ammo loadout consist entirely of shaped charge shells and armor piercing rods? The tank is completely adapted to anti-armor warfare.
>>64380127I'll humour you, because I don't even know what's your point when you accuse me of being a vatniggerKaždopádně bys udělal lidstvu službu, kdyby ses pro ten svůj kokotismus raději sám odjebal. Jako by nestačilo, že už i tak je v poslední době na /k/ dementů habaděj. Jak by řekl klasik: člověk si nemůže ani pořádně zashitpostit pro tu pakáž
>>64375739>Is there even ONE domestic russian T-72 that have good reverse speed?it does not need to reverseit goes straight to Berlin
>>64380352Because fortifications, thick buildings, gun emplacements, moored ships, idk... fucking anything big?
>>64380352Because thats what tanks excel at? Destroying bunkers etc. Why do you think the bongs didn't replace their rifled 120s until they had functionally no more ammo to use? There's been barely tank on tank combat since Desert Storm until now and Ukraine has primarily been ATGMs, artillery and drones killing tanks while the tanks have been used by retards who can't do combined arms. Tanks since the proliferation of ATGMs have been mobile bunkers with a big gun. Their ability to kill other tanks is secondary to that as you generally want to kill enemy tanks before they reach your lines and there's vastly better ways to do it than place your own expensive metal boxes in their way.
>>64373657this
>>64374163It was assumed(incorrectly) that after 70 years under the commie boot they would hate it as much as the rest of Eastern Europe, it was assumed that they'd view their previous government that way that much of America views its federal government, "faggots who are wrong and whom I hate and wish to destroy". It was assumed that they would harken back to the Tsarist days or become a colder bleaker Japan, a defeated power which recognized its new status and embraced it. Instead they embraced commie shit, because who cares if you are starving and everything is shit if you have an illusion of being a great power, they really are more like the Chinks than proper whites, everything is style over substance. All "face" cultures should be exterminated.
For anyone who wants a good look into the Western elites' perspective on Russia in the period of 1991-2022, I HIGHLY recommend reading picrel. TLDR: The top businessmen and diplomats all knew that Russia had serious problems, but thought that Russia was on a long arc towards being a normal country.
