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Oh no, the US will have to make sure everyone has a tetanus shot!

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>russian nuclear attack submarines
*blocks your path*

If Russia gets involved Europe will join in on the Ukraine front.

>>64395933
most Russian subs are submersible, some even more than once

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>>64395998
you can say that again!

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>>64395933
>Russian nuclear attack submarines and coastal defenses

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>>64395933
zigga, please tell me what country is on the opposite side of the Bering strait right here

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>>64395933
That joke by the NATO chief really got you shills riled up

>>64395933
Your Navy is impotent.

>>64395993
The Arctic sea route literally goes through Russian Territorial waters and require Russian nuclear Icebreakers to function. Of course they would intervene if someone were to interfere or try to blockade It.

>>64396011
Literally who?

>>64396017
And if Russia decides to fight America Europe will use that opportunity to rid themselves of the Russian problem.

>>64396008
@grok

>>64395933
>The Panamax vessel completed the 7,500 nautical mile voyage from China via the Arctic Northern Sea Route in just 20 days. A comparable voyage through the Suez Canal measures 11,000 nautical miles and routinely takes between 40-50 days.
This is the real reason why west were spreading the entire climate change hoax all these decades. So as to delay Russia's domiance in 21st century sea trade as long as possible.

>>64396011
What joke?

>>64396023
>>64396043
Thanks for confirming

>>64396043
>What a change from the 1984 Tom Clancy novel The Hunt for Red October: today, it seems more like the hunt for the nearest mechanic.

>>64396043
he said russia is weak

its not really a joke its just the truth

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>>64396035

>>64395933
In a naval conflict between China and the US, Russia isn't even a factor.

Unless nukes are flying, at which point discussing about China's trade isn't even relevant, as the cities behind their harbours are vaporized, along with their most productive population and most modern infrastructure, meaning a blockade isn't even necessary.

Without nukes :
The US can easily just use Japan or even the Philipinnes as unsinkable aircraft carriers.
From then, it's a matter of getting frequent satellite pictures of China Sea and of China's ports.

Thanks to modern navigation using transponders, most of these ships will be easy to identify, along with their official origin and destination.
Based on that, it's then only a matter of choosing which ship get a rocket and when.

If some ships can go close to Russia's coastline and SAM might be a concern, the US Navy has about 68 nuclear submarines, all of them capable to launch either torpedoes or missiles from underwater. With correct guidance, those missiles can sink a ship with close to zero chance for a russian interception.
If such an intercept occurs, then you go a lot of russian subs concentrated in a very small area against a foe which can field 2 modern subs for each of Russia's rusty one.

Then you add the resources of NATO countries which, while still a far cry from the US, are increasing fast.

The russian shills and the china shills spamming the board are the exact same people.

>>64396119
Russian nuclear subs are a big threat alongside side coastal antiship batteries and even bombers carrying antiship missiles

>>64396253
>Russian nuclear subs are a big threat to their own crews
FTFY Ranjit

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>>64396253
>bombers carrying antiship missiles

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>>64396253

>>64396271
Literally the job of the OG Badger and the current Backfire

>>64395933
>*will also have to *rescue* Russian nuclear attack submarines

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>>64396391

>>64396433
I don't see a single Backfire from that footage

>Rusnigger subs
LMAOOOOOOOOOO
>>64312521
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63053811/
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63104003/
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63235460/

>>64396253
>alongside side coastal antiship batteries
You cannot fire on what you do not know is there.
If you know where a US submarine is, that means you got something to detect it.
Most likely, another submarine, which sends you back to the initial problem : US subs are both more numerous and of better quality than Russia's subs.
This and the fact that the coastal batteries are firing missiles with maybe 100 km operational range, if even that. Unless that chinese shipping container is sailing right next to the coast, the US sub can fire at it without the coastal batteries being able to fire back. That's not even talking about torpedoes, which would give even less chance to locate the sub without a friendly ship or sub nearby.

>bombers

Same issue here : cannot fire at something if you don't know where it is.
US nuclear submarines don't even need to surface to fire. And Russia lost a large chunk of its air-worthy bombers, too.
That's not even going into the actual inventory and production capacity for anti-ship missiles.

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>>64395993
>>64396007
>>64396008
>>64396011
https://x.com/NORADCommand/status/1840776113846468898?

>>64395933
this board has the worst english after /int/

>>64396630
Its off-board spammers you faggot, its always the case when you see repeated threads shilling for the asiatic horde nations.

>>64396253
>Russian nuclear subs are a big threat
...to the environment.

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>>64396656
>t. picrel

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>>64395933
Why does this map literally mark India, the -stans, the middle east as China?

>>64396723
The Ender's Game timeline bled over. Common occurrence.

Implessive

>>64396621
God damn imagine how hard it was not to achieve radar lock on that retard as he flew past, I could not be trusted in that situation

>>64395933
oh no
not the russian navy
I hope they don't unleash the krakens they use to drag the submarines across the seafloor

>>64396723
China big

>>64396029
America won't attack Russian icebreakers in Russian waters. Not even the insane warhawks have that opinion rn.

>>64398015
I think you are confusing warhawks for deranged peaceniks.
The moderate position on Russia is glassing moscow.

>>64398018
No one wants to kill Europeans despite what tel aviv wants Americans to believe.

>>64398049
Russians are not Europeans.

>>64398054
Theyre literally vikings. Either way Kazakhstan was the birthplace of whites as we know it anyway.

>>64398049
Vatnigger werden verrecken und du kannst nichts tun
that said: fuck israel

>>64398061
Russians can be vikings if they want to be, but they're not Europeans.
They're mongols.

>>64398065
Thats an illegal opinion for you to have, Hans. Now go support them at the UN.

>>64398061
>Theyre literally vikings
If by that you mean Mongoloid rape babies, you're 100% correct

>>64398061
No, they're a state founded by vikings (the Rus) where the overwhelming majority of the population are the locals already from there, blasted with waves of mongol rape on top. We wuz vikangs and shyet is the most abhorent of all Russophile copes. It takes less than a second glancing between an average gopnik eastern slav and a scandinavian to see that the two are barely related, if at all.

>>64396621
turdies think its smart to pass in front of the jet fighter...so it can destroy you while you cant do shit

>>64398061
my God what a fucking schizo
whats next turks and mongols are blue eyed real aryans saar

>>64398065
>>64398066
Your opinions don't make up for genetic studies. They're Nordic. They don't have much mongol genetics at all. Their Asiatic genes come from the stans.

>>64398081
>>64398086
Lol you're literally seething rn. You can't deny genetics. Hypocrisy on display. You'd never call fingols out on being Asiatic even though half of them look like slopes.

>>64398089
I do not care about your "genetic studies", because I am not a racist.
I am a nationalist, I divide people along lines of ethnicity, ideology and culture.
Russian culture is not European, it is not nordic. Russians are an asiatic people, even if they may have "nordic genes", they're still Asian.

>>64398097
That's an argument I'd be willing to accept. Completely different culture. I agree.

Shouldn't have sperged about objective fact though.

>>64398089
Asiatic horde nation full of asiatic horde people with asiatic horde culture.

You will never be European.

>>64398097
Its funny you say you're not racist when this is pretty much the nazi party line on Slavs. They are the asiatic hordes. We need to beat their cruel depotism for Aryan freedom.

So yeah I am racist, lets execute Generalplan Ost.

>>64398105
They're still not nordic, they're not European, they're not "vikings".
Russians are Mongols.

>>64395933
Why do you think any blockade of Chinese ships would wait for them to sail around Russia when there a multiple obvious choke points between it an Chinese coasts?

>>64398112
Not slavs, Russians.
Know the difference.
Also the nazis are another bucket of incompetent losers. Why would you idolize these failures?
Even if think they're right, they're incompetents, they are Russian in spirit.

>>64395933
>Bering strait
>Tsugaru strait
>THE FUCKING TSUSHIMA STRAIT
Read your history you zigger faggot. The reason you're a fucked up ex-communist feudal shithole is LITERALLY on the red line.

>>64398119
>Why would you idolize these failures?
They have cool uniforms and also grandpa was one of them.

>>64398114
>You're right but it hurts my feelings
I accept your defeat.

I'm not Russian I just respect their culture. Pretty cool how unique it is, Asiatic as you point out, while being a genetically European country.

>>64398133
ask your grandpa about how that worked out for him

>>64398147
>I just respect their culture
I don't respect your culture, vanya.

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A reminder for the class,
Mercator projection maps are to make long distance travel easy to read with straight lines and equivalent coordinates.
The world actually looks like this.

>>64395933
They gonna naval Chernobyl at us or something?

>>64398166
Nah thats way too much ocean between iceland and greenland, and svallbard is way bigger. The poles are also much closer together. On your map the bering strait is as wide as Australia.

>>64398197
that's the real size of the continents, but that map in particular was made to be stretched onto a sphere. You can use Antarctica as -the- south pole of a 3D sphere to visualize it in your head.
So the placement is not correct, true, but I only provided an example of actual scale.

Can't wait till you faggots find out we used the container munitions idea underwater too, not just JDAM pallets. Oops, opsec though lol.

>>64398214
>pallets of torpedos chilling underwater just waiting to be activated
This is WAY better than naval minefields. I can't wait.

>>64396017
Sort of true.

For a few months of the year, the passage between the laptev and kara sea is ice free. However transit is still heavily regulated (russian notices to mariners frequently close of huge sections of the sea for navy, air and rocket forces exercises), ships need to have specialized radio equipment (A4 standard, which means radio telex that's close to obsolete tech as very few stations are left) and the russians basically only let you pass with a permit. Also, if anything happens rescue is a week away with luck as there are no ports nor settlements nearby that can help you out (ok, except maybe for dickson)

Which means for now and probably the next 5-ish years, the north-east passage will continue to be propaganda tool as the other route is still more profitable (more stops to offload chinese shit).

Source: sailed there as a chief officer back in 2017.

>>64396119
>Unless nukes are flying, at which point discussing about China's trade isn't even relevant, as the cities behind their harbours are vaporized, along with their most productive population and most modern infrastructure, meaning a blockade isn't even necessary.
Yeah that's why a nuclear retaliation is almost always inevitable. Neither the CCP nor the Chinese public would tolerate millions of people in their wealthiest cities get wiped out without an extreme response. That's why realistically (like the war in Ukraine) the US, Taiwan wouldn't go that far to striking the Chinese 'heartland' so to speak

>>64398158
Most people don't have any respect for American culture and it's completely understandable. I personally take the view that most Americans are neither culturally nor ethnically American anyway so it doesn't offend me.

>>64398443
I have no respect for American "culture" either, dear John Ivanovich from Ohio oblast.

>>64398115
Turdies aren't known for thinking

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>>64396621
Yeah

>>64398363

In the event of a US + allies conflict against China over Taiwan how much bombing of industrial and military targets on the Chinese mainland would the chinksects semi-tolerate before they start nuking?

>>64398488
They'll probably start screaming about red lines the moment Taiwan destroys the nearest ports on the mainland, but the real ones would probably be the 3 Gorges, Beijing port and the inland oil stockpiles. Factories and airbases should be fair game.

>>64398476
Did he die?

>>64398527
Yes but he got better

>>64398527
iirc the pilot survived (somehow)

>>64398535
Well that's good :)

>>64398488
You should probably cool your expectations of a big war for Taiwan
Yes the chinks are going to make a move, and probably within the next ten years
Yes there are currently security guarantees in place with Japan and South Korea, but the USA has been pretty ambiguous on that front for decades, and it's probably better for Uncle Sam to stay that way, the policy has been to dissuade attack rather than outright prevent it
Currently Taiwan is strategically very relevant, but offshoring of critical industry is the most likely way that the US will respond to the growing threat of Chinese conquest. Don't get me wrong, I think that everyone in the west recognises that allowing the Chinese government to control TSMC is unacceptable, but relocating them is much more palatable than fighting over an island against what is, despite every chink shill, an interior but large and still dangerous foe
Unless the states elect a sequence of leaders who have the stated aim of curtailing the chinks' expansionist dreams then they will likely not intervene with force

>>64398476
>The family be like "Can we see him?"

>>64398566

That sucks, I would have given my left nut for the chinksects to suffer a Russian-style humiliation and have the PLAN litter the bottom of the sea. .

>>64398566
Taiwan isn't just about chips. It's the island right in the middle of the 1st island chain and if it falls China has full reign over trade between the eastern nations.

>>64398166
>"I'll make a better map than the Mercator projection"
>useless shit
Every time.
>The world actually looks like this.
It doesn't.
>>64398211
>but that map in particular was made to be stretched onto a sphere
It is impossible to take a flat square piece of fabric and wrap it onto a sphere. That is WHY the Mercator projection exists. The only reason anyone has any problem with the Mercator projection is because about 20 years ago a bunch of retarded browns who stopped passing math exams when they were twelve decided that "DA WITE MAN'S MAP MAKES AFRICA LOOK SMALL!".
>You can use Antarctica as -the- south pole of a 3D sphere to visualize it in your head.
No. No, no, you have this EXACTLY backwards. The Mercator projection is more useful to people with good spatial reasoning, it's people with no intuitive grasp of scale who have a problem with it.

>>64398166
>Gap between Europe and America is 4x that if the distance between NZ and Australia despite the distances being 5500 and 2200km respectively
>The Darien gap is the size of the horn of Africa
>Just ocean everywhere
Stupid fucking nigger and your stupid map

>>64398607
>dominoes again
Honestly if anything does drag the USA into war in the West Phillipine Sea then it will be fears of the chinks exerting control over shipping and extraction in the region, we've seen them play their hand early with their REE chimping out recently, they very clearly cannot be trusted to be a global power, or even a regional power
But I don't think it will be Taiwan that does it, I predict that it will be a very limited conflict when they do make their grab for Taiwan, and if war with the US does come, it will be a while down the road, probably after pooh bear is dead, after they have had a chance to build up their MIC more

>>64398678
>very limited conflict when they do make their grab for Taiwan
I think it's quite the contrary. They've been building up their a2/ad and whole force to fight on the coast, so it would make very little sense not to go all out when they do try and take Taiwan. It'll be a declawing event for China the moment the US intervenes.

>>64398695
If the US does intervene it will be an absolute fucking disaster for China, I will be waiting with bated breath to see what decisions are made when it all does go down, as things stand I honestly don't know what will happen, but I suspect that the US will not intervene
It is a shame, because the people of Taiwan deserve to govern themselves, but China seems practically ready to set the world alight just to spite them

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Imao

I don't give a single fucking fuck that all of you involving yourselves in the reply chain can't read the filename and understand i only posted a size-accurate continent map.

Size-accurate-continent.
Learn how to fucking read.

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>>64398788
This map is scale-accurate you just can't fucking read it. You also can't visualize an apple in color, and you can't rotate the cow.

The reason you are posting retarded maps is because in 2017 a bunch of 90-95IQ American blacks and leftists (who can't rear maps) decided that they had discovered cartographic racism, concluding that European people's attempt to provide useful tools to professional mariners for hundreds of years was actually just white supremacy. Never did it enter their heads that intentionally providing bad maps to sea-farers to own the blacks would be fucking absurd because then ships would go off course.

You're carrying their water for some bizarre reason. It would be better if you just shut the fuck up honestly.

>>64396035
Legitimately I want to see what happens in a melted north sea scenario. Would Canada become a superpower or would they be aggressively swallowed whole by the US before that can happen? Are the Scandis gonna be the new gulf states? Is Iceland gonna be the new hot tourist destination?

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>>64398956
>intentionally providing bad maps to sea-farers to own the blacks would be fucking absurd because then ships would go off course

>>64395933
Bering Strait locked down. Next question.

>>64396723
The 2nd Finno-Korean Hyperwar is coming

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>>64396008
>>64398122
>>64398992
https://www.twz.com/air/chinese-h-6-missile-carrier-jets-appear-for-the-first-time-off-alaska

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>>64399451
Implessive

>>64398678
>But I don't think it will be Taiwan that does it, I predict that it will be a very limited conflict when they do make their grab for Taiwan, and if war with the US does come, it will be a while down the road, probably after pooh bear is dead, after they have had a chance to build up their MIC more

I think it would be more profitable for the chinks to invade the Philippines and try to arrange an attrition war with the US. Japan and SK would not attack China first over the Philippines and neither would Taiwan. That way, China can exhaust America in the west Pacific in an 1v1 naval and air attrition match, where the chinks hold the production advantage, and then pressure Taiwan into yielding when the war is brought to a conclusion by an American retreat. There is nothing valuable in the Philippines meaning that it can be bombed to rubble with little loss.

>>64398973
>Legitimately I want to see what happens in a melted north sea scenario.

Anon, the ice covering the north sea melted away 10 000 years ago, the land underneath was once known as "doggerland".

>The US has to travel thousands of mile to blockage the malacca strait
>so we're going to sail through the bering strait which is right next to the us to bypass the blockage
>so we can arrive at europe that is doted with us bases
Low iq chink shill

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>>64399456

>>64397793
>>64398082
You can literally see him tracking it. Coulda hit him with an aim-9 and he'd never even see it coming.

>>64399560
Take closer look (if you can open your eyes wide) at how the jet engines are operating on both aircraft.

>>64399701
yes, american jets do not have functioning afterburners, this is known

>>64399707
Chinese jet engines are so weak they need to operate at maximum output just for the shitbox to take off, sad!

>>64399716
that is at minimum power dumbass

>>64396008
>please tell me what country is on the opposite side of the Bering strait right here
Any navy in such close proximity to land will be rendered largely useless. You cannot defend against such a large potential for ground missile forces and drones launch placement in the area

>>64399736
>MUHHH DRONES

>>64399740
drones work

>>64399744
>drones work as the ultimate turdycope
FTFY

>>64399744
>>64399746
Drones DO work, against russia that is.

>>64399736
>Any navy in such close proximity to land will be rendered largely useless. You cannot defend against such a large potential for ground missile forces and drones launch placement in the area
so you agree that no ship will make it past the Tsushima strait or to avoid it will have to go into the Pacific ocean where the USN and JDFN can hunt them down

>>64399752
To avoid this, I guess best to build rail and pipelines to kamchatka and develop ports there.

>>64399756
Negro please, kamchatka doesn't even have roads. Even chinks won't invest money into such projects.

>>64399756
>kamchatka
that's over 2/3 the distance to Europe from southern China

>>64399760
Belt and road then. Since the USA is out of afghanistan, the chinks can take turkmenistan and link overland with Russia through Kazachstan. With Iran on their side they have an overland route to Turkey.

>>64399762
*farts*
Whoops, it seems I've toppled another -stani regime.

>>64399762
then why gloat about some "unblockadeable" sea route
and all of that assumes that there will even be someone on the other side willing to trade with you, that you and they have goods you are both willing to trade and that transport costs doesn't eat up any economical benefit from it

>>64399767
Why havent you toppled Pakistans? They are working with the chinks.

>>64399780
pakistan is toppling it's self without anyone from the outside so much as blowing on it

>>64399780
Can't have your regime toppled if you keep coup de jeeting yourselfing.

>>64399772
Because it's a turdy making shit up again because the reality that no one in the civilized world gives a fuck about mudhutistan is too much for their little brains to handle

>this retard thinks Russia and China even have a protocol for combined ops and it wouldn't be a giant blue on blue fiesta

>>64399814
Red on red

>>64398956
Sqaure km landmass of greenland is 1/4th the size of USA, USA is half the size of Russia territories, and the antarctic is roughly in between US and russia size.

Your map is not the real continent sizes, dumbass.
Fuck you're stupid.

>>64395971
To be fair, considering the issue of "vaccine hesitancy" in the US, it having caused minor (for the time being) flare-ups of measles and fucking bubonic plague, troopers getting tetanus might actually be a risk.

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>>64398166
at least post a relevant projection tardo

>>64399752
>so you agree that no ship will make it past the Tsushima strait or to avoid it will have to go into the Pacific ocean where the USN and JDFN can hunt them down
no. They can just offload anything in NK or Russia and transport it to China. There are a lot of options that would be viable there
>>64399751
Sure, US would have better air defense, but at the end of the day any air defense ends up getting overwhelmed provided you have enough drone quantity to saturate the skies/seas with. Russia & China can manufacture quantity.

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While this shitflinging grade "discussion" on cartography is mildly amusing, I find myself asking "Is this relevant to /k/?".
And wonder what is otherwise occupying the time of the jannies and mods.

>>64399993
transloading cargo onto rail and road would cost them a lot to do. and that is only if they are even able to do so. after all the major russian and korean ports are all on the sea of Japan. a sea that would soon become a USN and JSDN lake
>just onload it in Magadan and then magic it to china

>>64399993
>MUHHH DRONES

>>64400023
are you a jap or something. why do you keep bringing up JSDN as if its a navy that is worth mentioning. Maybe bring up the pinoy navy also lmao. Again, same issue of drone threat persists for any navy that approaches Russian coast, but it is a fair point overall. There are alternatives such as the railway from Sovetskaya Gavan which would bypass Sea of Japan. Regardless, the whole premise is a bit retarded. Why would China need transport line to EU if USA is blockading China. Wouldn't EU be on the same side as China

>>64400042
>Wouldn't EU be on the same side as China
Okay Chang

>>64400045
My bad, I meant US and EU

>>64400042
>why do you keep bringing up JSDN as if its a navy that is worth mentioning.
it's worth more than russia's and china's combined for sure though

what a pathetic shitskin shill thread

>>64400047
>and china's combined for sure though
Sure, Russian navy is spread wide, so it wouldn't do much, but Chinese navy is several times larger and better than Japan's. Japans Navy is of no relevance here. Fact of the matter is, even US Navy would not be at it's max efficiency operating near Chinese Coast where Chinese Navy could get its support. Maybe if you include entire NATO in this scenario, but even that is a longshot.

>>64398443
>Johnny Hotdog from Florida Oblast

>>64400042
>why do you keep bringing up JSDN
because it's the only navy in the are that is relevant besides the PLAN and the USN
>that approaches Russian coast
annon it's russia that's been losing ships to naval drones, russia doesn't have them
>railway from Sovetskaya Gavan
doesn't have dock facilities nor the rail capacity to handle even a % of what china currently trades via shipping
>Wouldn't EU be on the same side as China
fuck no, why we would we side with the chinks?
we might not be going all in on team US simply due to logistical and political constraints.
but there's no reason to break with them an go with the chinks.
in fact there have been several military exercises in Asia that EU member states took part in or organized themselves.
two that come to mind is the Germans, Spanish and French sending a wing of fighters with their own flying logistics trail to Singapore. Why would they need to study and exercise that if they aren't planning on getting involved?
then there's the French and UK naval visits to Japan and navigation trough the Taiwan straight. again very clear indications of what side they'd chose.

>>64398973
in what situation canada becomes anything?
its not like ships are gonna pass via its eez at all

this is why usa wants to buy greenland since the 50s anon it will give usa a much needed eez in the arctic which they absolutely have next to zero

>>64400074
>russia doesn't have them
you should refresh your knowledge. plus its not like gerans cant be utilised, as well as Russian missile capabilities which would be doing most of the damage and cannot be efficiently countered
>doesn't have dock facilities nor the rail capacity to handle even a % of what china currently trades via shipping
docks can be expanded. I dont know why you assume some scenario in which 100% of chinese trade has to go through there. Maybe do a bit less of whataboutisms
>fuck no, why we would we side with the chinks?
>we
So why are we then assuming scenario of China transporting to EU during a military conflict with US. It's almost like you're willing to argue most retarded scenario, just to fight your argument. Are you retarded?

>>64400108
he problem is that there isn't really anything that the North West Passage offers (besides a banger Stan Rodgers song) besides letting post panamax avoid the straight of Magellan. So just EU-West coast for a limited number of (very big) ships.
it's also a bit of a toss up for resource exploitation. yeas tawing would allow for more resource exploitation but rising sea levels would also swallow some of them.
the big plus for Canada is it's agricultural belt expanding.
the US needing to buy Greenland for EEZ is kind of stupid. you have good relations with Denmark and Greenland. just give them money for the use of theirs. the US already has the right to put up as many bases as it wants in Greenland anyways.

>>64400180
>he problem is that there isn't really anything that the North West Passage offers (besides a banger Stan Rodgers song) besides letting post panamax avoid the straight of Magellan. So just EU-West coast for a limited number of (very big) ships.

it will elliminate the train route
it will undermine basicly anyone in europe that has a shipping industry besides the greeks which they basicly own the seas
it will open up all of that juicy oil and gas platform industry for both china and russia
it will force russia to built more sexy nuclear icebreakers
>the big plus for Canada is it's agricultural belt expanding.
how so? they dont even have a basic infrastructure up there to begin with
unless they spend money for hydroponics which knowing canada they will rather suck usa dick till they choke up and die than to actually do something sensible for once
>the US needing to buy Greenland for EEZ is kind of stupid. you have good relations with Denmark and Greenland. just give them money for the use of theirs
you cant rent eez anon
it was never about the bases you simply cant build bases there the way usa wants they tried it already look how much they spend purely to carve out ice every year

>>64400170
>Are you retarded?
that's funny I was going to ask you the same thing
>you should refresh your knowledge
may we see them
>plus its not like gerans cant be utilised
against a moving military vessel with AA capacities, lol
>as well as Russian missile capabilities
just put up a decoy emergency hospital
but again in all seriousness. russia doesn't have the SSM's to cover it's Pacific coast nor does it have the SAM's to cover it. nor doe the professional cuckholds that man those SAM's have the capacity to defend anything.
any shore based system russia puts up would be picked apart. if russia is a belligerent to the conflict (their limited port facilities in the Pacific would also be blown up rather quickly).
if russia wasn't a belligerent country, every country is free to conduct searches and enforce it's blockade in international waters that is more then 12 nautical miles of a nations shore.
that would mean that any ship heading towards china or any port used to break the blockade would have to hug the coast all the way around Kamchatka and the sea of Okhotsk.
cont.

>>64400074
>>64400244
>docks can be expanded
that takes time and costs a lot of money the same for the rail connection. work that will also eat up a lot of resources you'd want for your war effort. so you'd be looking at a year at least at the current capacity don't forget you only get half a year that you can do any meaningful work due to the artic winters. by the time the work is done the war would already be decided.
so those improvements should happen before the war. but those improvements will never be profitable outside of the war scenario. so who's going to pay for it?
>I dont know why you assume some scenario in which 100% of chinese trade
because you prop it up as an alternative to accommodate all the other blockaded trade routes.
even if it's just 10% it still can't handle it and would take years of work to expand to where it could. all the while the chinese economy would be starving.
>So why are we then assuming scenario of China transporting to EU during a military conflict with US
why do you point out a trade route between china and Europe as being "unblockadeable" if you don't assume trade between Europe and china in case of a war?
>but trade with russia
russia hasn't the infrastructure needed to facilitate said trade via it's artic ports

>>64400224
>>64400224
>it will elliminate the train route
why? because you can have shipping for a couple oof months a year? what if you need cargo moved now, do you have the storage capacity to store what you want to ship in those months and the shipping capacity to get it all moved in those few months? what are those ships going to do for the rest of the year?
>it will undermine basicly anyone in europe that has a shipping industry besides the greeks which they basicly own the seas
why? they can use the same route, just sail out side of russias territorial water if you have to but russia can't even stop that.
also the danes move more cargo than the greeks.
>it will open up all of that juicy oil and gas platform industry
it will still be frozen 3/4 of the year, it won't open up shit. also even if you can keep the pumps going, can you store 3/4 of what you produce until the sea thaws and the ships can come pick it up?
>more icebreakers
that would be plus
>they dont even have a basic infrastructure up there to begin with
the do have a lot of infrastucture in their current agricultureal belt, just build some more. Canada unlike russia can build and maintain infrastructure.
>can't rent EEZ
nigger EEZ just means you can regulate economic activity in said area.
the US can already access their EEZ provided their regulation allows it. just give them money to change their regulation so your companies can access their EEZ some more
>>64400263
meant for >>64400170 not >>64400074

>>64400267
>why? because you can have shipping for a couple oof months a year?

no this route is proposed for when the ice will partially be melt 365 days which probably wont happen soon anyways like in 15-20 years ***maybe***
>why? they can use the same route, just sail out side of russias territorial water
russian eez expands to 200 kilometers anon
just like usa
that far north you aint gonna find melted ice anywhere
>also the danes move more cargo than the greeks.
true danes have 14% while the greeks only 10%
however i was talking about their 50 ship order which will put them basicly on the same level (container ship wise)
having said this
oil lng bulk of any type they are literally light years ahead of basicly anyone
in my eyes they are basicly the second biggest mafia after the catholic church
remember what happened with trump and them in 2016 when trump threatened them with sanctions because they were shipping iranian oil and they just unloaded the oil in scotland and loaded it up again but with a +30% markup freedom tax to usa
>he do have a lot of infrastucture in their current
thats why i said "up north"
>also even if you can keep the pumps going, can you store 3/4 of what you produce until the sea thaws and the ships can come pick it up?
you can place pipes and pump it to the shore
>nigger EEZ just means you can regulate economic activity
a partially melt arctic means also a partially melt greenland sea ships to charge through the new straight too
think bigger anon think bigger that a big straight opening up

>>64396017
and there's literally nothing up there
where they do go? Canada? Scandinavia? Iceland?
bitch all these are NATO countries they don't need to hold the artic sea NATO already surrounds all the territory around it, it's in the fucking name NORTH ATLANTIC

>>64400328
>no this route is proposed for when the ice will partially be melt 365 days which probably wont happen soon anyways like in 15-20 years ***maybe***
well china isn't by all estimations going to wait 15-20 years ***maybe*** so it's all moot as your "unblockadeable" is going to be to late
>russian eez expands to 200 kilometers anon
annon you do know that territorial waters and the EEZ aren't the same and that they give different rights and duties to the state that holds them? right?
>greek naval maffia
okay that's nice and all but how would this northern route undermine them
again you as a coastal state can't just ban other countries from sailing in your EEZ or even territorial waters.
>"up north"
you didn't annon I and everyone else can just ctrl+f and check
>you can place pipes and pump it to the shore
and then you still have to store it and have the shipping capacity to ship it all when the route is open
>a partially melt arctic means also a partially melt greenland sea ships to charge through the new straight too
this sentence doesn't even make sense, you do know that under the ice Greenland is all rock right?

>>64400372
1)15-20 years is nothing really for countries with any sort of decent plan
2)yes however there arent any international waters there..
3)they wont undermine the greeks thats what im saying the rest of europe sure
4) yes i did
>how so? they dont even have a basic infrastructure up there to begin with
5)they have pipelines they can ship it to the pacific if they so wish
6)davis straight

>>64400389
>1)15-20 years is nothing really for countries with any sort of decent plan
well russian isn't a country with any sort of decent plan as demonstrated by them being stuck in Ukraine
and China really only has max 10 years to take Taiwan. so the 15-20 year won't work
>2)yes however there arent any international waters there..
everything out side of your 12 mile territorial waters is by very definition international waters
https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf
Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up
to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines
determined in accordance with this Convention
I would also like to direct you Section 3 Subsection A which clearly states that a coastal state can't just ban other countries ships from entering even it's territorial waters without a proper reason.
>3)they wont undermine the greeks thats what im saying the rest of europe sure
I refer to my answer to your second point. They are allowed to take that route and as such how would that route opening up undermine them.
>they dont even have a basic infrastructure up there to begin with
up there and up north are not the same. the Canadians have a lot of infrastructure in their current agricultural belt, i.e. the strip of land along the US border that is most suitable for agriculture. when global warming expands it we aren't talking up in the northern most reaches of Canada.
>5)they have pipelines they can ship it to the pacific if they so wish
pipelines that aren't anyway near how far north they'd have to be.
>6)davis straight
if the Davis Straight becomes navigable so will the Canadian North West passage a much shorter route and again one with limited economic benefits

But let's conclude, no russia can't protect said route. No said route won't be open before China makes a move. No russia doesn't have the infrastructure that would allow them to bypass the sea of Japan.

>>64399993
>Coming close to coasts is suicide for ships because land-based missiles and drones
>That is why the US Navy cannot snipe chinese ships cruising in Russia's waters
>But those same chinese ships can definitely cruise right next to US-controlled Korean and Japanese coasts.

Anon, there are not large enough ports in Russia's Far East, let alone in North Korea, for the kind of volume China is trading.
Shanghai's port alone is doing 50M+ TEU per year. All of China is trading roughly 300M+ TEU per year.
The World's 50th container port is around 4M+ TEU, hence not even 2% of what China is dealing with. Neither that port nor any bigger ports are in Russia or in North Korea.
In fact, Vladivostok, with its 1.5M+ TEU, is barely even considered an international port from a global standard... and still, it accounts for roughly 40% of Russia's container shipping.

Even if China was to skip the naval problem by going full railroad, Russia is shitty there too : the Trans-Siberian is barely able to carry 1M+ TEU on a good year and most of that is used internally so russian cities don't starve.

You just don't realize how shitty and insignificant Russia is, from an economic point of view. Before the war, it was a glorified gas station. Now, it's actually importing gasoline.

>>64400425
>well russian isn't a country with any sort of decent plan as demonstrated by them being stuck in Ukraine
i mean open a mineral map and an agricultural map of ukraine
then you will get your answer as to why they said that they are perfectly happy to get only the two regions
>and China really only has max 10 years to take Taiwan. so the 15-20 year won't work
what?how do you people cum up with those timeframes
>everything out side of your 12 mile territorial waters is by very definition international waters

true but i assume that russia at some point will leave unclos because of this usa was smart
(but as i have said this it too far up north it wont matter much)
3)because it doesnt offer maersk any sort of advantage using that route in comparison to the chinese
you can see the aviation type of this right now because of the war that some of the big eu airlines simply cant compete with the chinese ones
luft lot sas klm finnair virgin and im sure there are others
>up there and up north are not the same
what else could have i possible be talking about when i mentioned up there? the moon?
>one with limited economic benefits
somewhat true till you throw in the oil and lng both canada and usa wants to sell they can ship directly from alaska with this bypass half of usa via pipealiens

>>64400042
>railway from Sovetskaya Gavan
100 millions tons of cargo a year.
That's about 3 days worth of international trade for China.

>>64400052
>Sure, Russian navy is spread wide
And deep. Especially deep. As in right at the bottom of the sea. Otherwise, it's rusting in port. And whatever sea-worthy ship there is lacking a sea-worthy crew, most experienced sailors having been converted into meat in Ukraine now.

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>>64400477
>pipealiens
ayy lmao

>>64398147
>I'm not Russian I just respect their culture.
Ah, vranyo and dedovshchina are such cultural hallmarks fellow man of culture, I guess you also appretiate indian cophrophagia and haitian cannibalism as well?

>>64400477
>i mean open a mineral map and an agricultural map of ukraine
it would be smart, it they could have pulled it off
that's the problem with thurdies like you you only understand can do and can't do but not should do or shouldn't do
russian shouldn't have invaded because the invasion is costing it's more than those resources will ever make it back
>what?how do you people cum up with those timeframes
because China will be to old in 10 years, look at it's demographics
>but i assume
>I dont know why you assume
is it okay to make assumption or not?
regardless it's international law, if russia violates it it's going to complicate thing between it and Europe further
>3)because it doesnt offer maersk any sort of advantage using that route in comparison to the chinese
>you can see the aviation type of this right now because of the war that some of the big eu airlines simply cant compete with the chinese ones
a) Christ just use google translate you can't speak English for shit
b) Chinese airliners and European ones don't compete on the same routes
>what else could have i possible be talking about when i mentioned up there? the moon?
the strip that is currently in cultivation and the strip that could be cultivated in the future
not the coast of the Baffin bay as you are implying
>oil and lng both canada and usa wants to sell
news flash the EU is moving away from oil, and that's where that oil would be going because that's the one route that would benefit in comparison to going panamax or going around sout hafrica
Maersk currently doesn't have any advantage based on the route as compared to the Chinese. the sues canal authority charges everyone the same

>>64400477
>what?how do you people cum up with those timeframes
Easy, friend :
China is currently losing around 8 millions people per year while also aging fast.
How fast ? Well, the median age is currently at 40 years-old and stood at 37,5 years-old in 2020. It's increasing by +1 year every 2 years on average and isn't supposed to slow down for a generation.
In 2035, there will be 80 millions less chinese than there are today and half of those will be over 45 years old.
That's still a lot of chinks to charge Taiwan, though.

>>64400502
>because of the war that some of the big eu airlines simply cant compete with the chinese ones
Now that's straight-up bullshit.
Lufthansa alone is making 40B $US in turnover and about 1,5B $US in profit
Meanwhile, the two biggest Chinese airlines are making a combined 48B $US in turnover and about only 1B $US in profit.
Now to the germans, add the french, spanish, dutch and brits and you'll have about 110B $US in sales for about 5B $US in profit. And that's only taking the top companies in those countries.

If what matter is the amount of passengers, then sure, China probably win, if only because internal flights are dominated by chinese companies and even if most chinks don't fly, there's still a billion and a half of them.

>>64400502
>russian shouldn't have invaded because the invasion is costing it's more than those resources will ever make it back
if we take at face value the numbers ukraine gives then they should be marching in moscow by now

however if you use the lanchester laws of attritional warfare it means that ukraine probably has 1 to 1.12 less dead ones...
make up what you want with that info
also its not smart
they are currently holding that area not what we you meant by that
>because China will be to old in 10 years, look at it's demographics
china is not greece anon......
china will lose about 15 to 21 million which by a countr with 1.3+ billion people isnt devasting (yet...)
>if russia violates it it's going to complicate thing between it and Europe further

what europe is gonna send an strongly worded letter?
europe is a fucking joke anon they cant enforce jack shit
>Chinese airliners and European ones don't compete on the same routes
they absolutely do however china uses the russian airspace and europe cant
thats the difference
>news flash the EU is moving away from oil
screencap this when we come back in about 5 years from now
their stupid laws is gonna implode
>>64400506
yes lets say its true
how many 18 to 45 men will exist in 2035? 1.3 1.2 billions?
out of those lets say 0.14%(same as now) are serving the military on all branches thats 1.7 million
im sure that not enough to launch an attack at all
/s

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>>64400563
>how many 18 to 45 men will exist in 2035? 1.3 1.2 billions?
Where are you getting those population estimates? Straight out of Comrade Xi's dick? Does CCP internal propaganda claim that they have a total population of 3 or 4 billion people or something? Because those numbers are absolutely absurd. China's population is projected to start shrinking and will be less than 1.4 billion total by 2035, and that's assuming the CCP hasn't been lying about their population stats for years now.

Pure tankie delusion.

>>64400563
can you first off all concede that your original unblocadable sea route is utter and complete bullocks
you haven't bothered to try and disprove any of the numbers annons have given as to why an over land link can't handle the traffic
you can't explain how the trade would go trough any of the contested straight in a war.
you can even begin to argue that russia could cover it's Pacific coast in the SSM' and SAM's it would need to stop the US from simply enforcing the blockade
if you can't even do that then any further argument with you is useless.

>>64400660
>assuming the CCP hasn't been lying about their population stats for years now
they have and some estimates place their population as low as 800 million although around 1 billion is the more credible claim

China is just a larger 1990s Japan. They're gonna liberalize and turn old and gay as every Chinese is gonna want a comfy office job.

>>64395933
Oh no, the most dangerous subs in the world (to their crew) might explode in the ocean near China!

>>64400502
>>64400506
>>64400660

Regarding the population issue, what's stopping an authoritarian government like china from forcibly using artificial insemination on a big scale to grow its population? It may take quite some time but can't they just wait many decades to get the demographics fixed?

Meanwhile, taiwan and other nations that respect individual rights may be quite reluctant to take such extreme measures to fix their low TFRs. What then?

>>64401059
because you are counting on the parents to
a) have the child
b) care for the child
c) raise the child
sure go that route if you want a bunch of fetal alcohol babies that got abused by their parents
I'm sure they will be a great boon to your society

>>64401059
nigga go outside if you actually unironically think this

>>64400660
>Where are you getting those population estimates?
do you know what 1.2 billion means anon? they are currently at 1.4 even if we remove 80 million you said its still 1.3 i just became more doomer

wtf are you smoking
>>64400753
>you haven't bothered to try and disprove any of the numbers annons have given as to why an over land link can't handle the traffic
dude cosco kawasaki can currently ship 24.000 containers
the train had a record hauling in 2024 of 150 containers
but it carries in general 100 teu

at the same time

do the maths