We all know that the eventual answer to FPV spam will be miniaturized CIWS turrets.Now, the most common approach is to just take some 5.56 lmg like the M249 and use that for the weapon of the turret, however this isn't really optimal now is it?The 5.56 is much too overpowered for FPVs. Given their small size the detection and engagement range will likely be less than 100m and inside that range a much smaller and lighter weapon and ammunition would be preferrable.I suggest the .17 HMR. It's extremely light weight and still has decent velocity for hitting aerial targets. For reliability this weapon should use an electric motor for working the action, this eliminates any concerns about rimfire reliability.Thanks to using such a small cartridge the whole machinegun can weigh as little as 2kg and 1000 rounds of ammunition less than 3kg. This means that the whole system weight will be kept to a minimum and the turret can be mounted on top of even the lightest vehicles such as trucks, pickups, jeeps etc.
>rimfire~_~
>>64412440If it's going into a mini gatling or chain gun it should be fine
>>64412440Use an externally powered gun running an electric motor.The dud problem of rimfire ammo would be a non-issue.As an additional bonus, such weapons, especially the multi-barrel varieties, are well suited to extremely high rates of fire, a desirable characteristic of any AA machine gun.
>>64412440>>64412449Electric operation of the action was stipulated in the OP
>>64412449>especially the multi-barrel varieties,Needless complexity for anti-small-drone use. And rimfire-level ammo isn't going to be sufficient against large drones anyway.Just use the well-trusted single barrel chaingun design. You can always mount four of them together if you really feel the need to fling lead downrange.
>>64412388Why wouldn't you use something commercial and off the shelf like a .22LR calico 100 round magazine that can be rapidly swapped? Belted ammo isn't the answer to anything unless the question is range toy?Show me a calico system that feeds from alternating 100 round helical drums on a gimbal
>>64412677>22LR calico 100 round magazineReliability and insufficient magazine depth.A belted electric powered gun offers perfect reliability and impressive capacity, enough to take down swarms of drones all day.
If you're going to use a rotary gun or any kind of machine gun why not just use one of the already available ones chambered in 5.56 or 7.62 (that you have fuckloads of and can get on the cheap without having to procure another cartridge and gun and links/containers/whatever else for said cartridge and gun) and use that instead? I don't see the point in going out of your way and investing money to shave literal cents off of ammo costs where lives are on the line, especially in an area where the cartridges in use are already perfectly "cost effective".
>>64412704Then you need someone linking ammo into belts, and for all that you can have soldiers doing it in the field. If it had to be belt-fed why not use .410? the distance on these isn't going to be greater than 25-30 meters and having an automatic bird or buckshot spitter will increase hit percentage by a lot.
>>64412722>already available ones chambered in 5.56 or 7.62Because those are huge and have lots of recoil meaning that they can't so easily be mounted on lighter vehicles etc.The future of warfare is every single grid square 20km from the front line absolutely full of autonomous FPV's which means that we need optimized small CIWS turrets absolutely everywhere. On all vehicles, besides every tent and bunker, on tripods, on the roofs of buildings, fucking everywhere.For this use, we cannot use a big heavy 10kg lmg, much less a GPMG. We need a 2kg machine gun with light ammunition, high velocty bullets, and a ~100m effective range.
>>64412735Birdshot etc. doesn't work against drones. Shotguns in general aren't the optimal solution, you need high velocity and accuracy to hit the small fast manouvering target.The .17 HMR rounds can be delivered linked in plastic belts (for weight savings) from the factory.
>>64412735>the distance on these isn't going to be greater than 25-30 metersWrong, you're going to want a bigger umbrella that can protect a dispersed artillery battery. Meaning a general purpose machinegun at a minimum and in reality an antidrone laser thats mounted on a truck.
>>64412766>we cannot use a big heavy 10kg lmg, much less a GPMG. We need a 2kg machine gunWrong retard. It is going to be a computer vision aimed CROWS.
>>64412388>Given their small size the detection and engagement range will likely be less than 100mThe standard CUAS radars detect UAVs for multiple kilometers, typically 6km+. Stop using bad assumptions about public equipment.
>>64412766>Because those are huge and have lots of recoil meaning that they can't so easily be mounted on lighter vehicles etc.I think you have a misconception of how big machineguns are in the grand scheme of things. An m2 with mounts and shit weighs, fuckit, let's round up to 200 pounds. Say the fancy radar targeting stuff weighs another 200. 100 rounds in a can adds up to about 30-ish. Even if you've got some tiny-ass pickup that can only handle 1000 pounds that's still a truck that can haul an HMG+kit and and one or two thousand rounds. Putting machineguns on vehicles is not hard or any kind of an out of the way thing to do. I don't get why you would want to shoot down an explosive drone closer to you rather than farther if you had a choice in the matter, or why you'd want a round that's "enough" to shoot it down rather than one that will fuckin obliterate it.
>>64412775Too big, too expensive. Can't and wont be a real universal solution for everything requiring protection in the front.
>>64412801We're not talking about UAV's but FPV's
>>64412854I'm talking about a miniature CIWS turret system that weighs with all of its ammunition, weapons, actuators and targeting equipment about 20kg. Something you can just slap on top of literally anything that needs protection.
>>64413039That's what I and the MIC are talking about too, anon.
>>64412388
>>64412388I'm legit curious about this particular form of retardation, any sort of CIWS sort of device is going to need to be vehicle mounted or stationary, it will also be limited to direct LOS. With how much everything else is going to weigh there's zero reason to go with an actual miniature cartridge for that, you'll never get the overall package weight low enough to justify some rimfire power level cartridge. Just use a 5.56 or 5.45 since they're already in the supply chain.
>>64413072This is the reality of what you were thinking of: a modernized RWS with a GPMG and passive optics, linked to hemispheric radars. If you do the math, low-velocity short-range copes like shotguns or rimfire make no sense. Trophy covers that dying niche.
>>64413080I think it's based on two assumptions. These people are thinking inside an everyman-fantasy projecting the things they can understand, instead of a military perspective. Second they don't understand the basic physics. OP doesn't understand a Black Hornet shows up on a CUAS radar at 2km...
>>64413080I feel like people get far too fixated on "cost effectiveness" because of how relatively cheap drones are and end up falling into the white room fallacy where they assume that the only thing that matters is a one on one contest of capability and cost (because war is like starcraft where if you lose less zerglings than the opponent does marines you eventually win, and momentum and overmatch and high level strategic planning are not things to concern yourself with [even though they are indeed big things to concern yourself with in starcraft]) and just sort of don't really consider how it would work with everything else, or the cost of the things said drone could have blown up. Spending thousands to prevent millions of damages is going to be worth it every time, even if the thing you shoot down is worth hundreds.
>>64413035>Too big, too expensiveEnjoy paying the expense of replacing dead soldiers and destroyed equipment.
>>64412653>Just use the well-trusted single barrel chaingun design.Random 80-year old grandpa in Finland was two decades ahead of his time.Probably went to the grave unaware of how great his invention was.
>>64413080Why do you think it would be big and heavy? Camera + IR + laser for targetting and a small radar for target finding is all you need.
>>64413599No, retard, that isn't all you'd need. You're forgetting about the gun, feed mechanism from the ammo storage, ammo itself, servos/actuators, electronic controllers, batteries/power supply and probably a half a dozen other things. Then you need to mount it all on something stable.
>>64412388>reliability this weapon should use an electric motorDon't you trust your master beater arm for hand crank? Takes Glock mags.
>>64413072Why not something like this, but on a bucket truck arm, so it can be positioned just above the tree tops?
>>64413122Your ideas are what lead to those.If you can't match the economics of the attacker you end up with a whole lot of expensive and important targets that you can't protect.
>>64413631All of those thing's scale with the weapon weight.Big weapon -> big motors and frameSmall weapon -> small weapons and frame
>>64413947>you can't match the economics of the attackerThirdie logic is now zigger logic.Chair force kills all enemy aircraft, headquarters, and any massed enemy.Wireless wizards triangulate radio emissions for every pocket radio, bluetooth and wifi device to find the rest.Jam enemy drones and have laser turrerts shoot down the ones that aren't jammed.Enemy FPV drones will be the most sophisticated weapon remaining after everything else is neutralized.
>>64415128>still clinging to prewar conceptions of warThe drone has revolutionized warfare. If you don't prepare for it, no amount of F35 precision strikes will help.
>>64412653>Needless complexity for anti-small-drone use.Embvrace tradition.Multibarrel simple and rugged solution for high rates of sustained fire. shots spread over many barrels reduce heating and wear. There are weight penalties but in microcalibers barrels weight is small .
>>64412388>suggest the .17 HMR.4.5x26R Interdynamic.
>>64412735>the distance on these isn't going to be greater than 25-30 metersGTFOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18JC1-Okj4
>>64416324While excellent for the task unfortunately it isn't an actually existing chambering.
>>64413081>rimfire>low velocity
>>64416330They ended up with a fuckhuge turret because they used M240.Had they used a light weight 5.56 like a FightLight beltfed they could have made such a turret of less than half the weight. Instead of being bolted to the bed of a pickup it could be on the roof of the pickup, leaving the bed for actual use.
>>64412677Ever owned a Calico? You cannot get through a 100 round magazine without at least ten jams.It's a real goddamn shame -- mine fits me absolutely perfectly, the stock locks into my arm and shoulder like they designed it just for me. But it's a constant string of "bangbangbangbangFUCKbangbangFUCKbangbangbang...."
>>64416322The Gatling was my obsession for over a decade. It just isn't right for this usage.
>>64416453>can fire all day at moderate ROF without overheating>30000 rounds MBS (Dylon Minigun has more rounds between stoppages than average AR-15 bolt life)>lower automatic dispersion because no reciprocating bolt shocksGatlings are Kings of the automatic fire
>>64412388AA-12 mounted on a light RWS linked up to some sort of radar or other detector. Could possibly mount it as an add-on to a larger RWS but the lightweight mounting would likely rotate faster and so track aerial targets better. As it's a shotgun you could feed it all sorts of different ammo types like nets possibly.
>>64416324As soon as I got done reading OP’s post, I scrolled down in search of this image, knowing I’d find it. Kellgren’s meme idea is vindicated.I would suggest a 5.7x28 backpack-fed minigun though, simply because it would be sweet.
>>64416470Really, the motor needs to not fuck up, right? If you have a failure to x with the cartridge, no matter, the cycle will continue as usual, by force, and the (unspent) cartridge will be spit out the ejection port.
>>64416769My man, modern brushless DC motors are insanely reliable. As long as they're not overheated, drowned in foreign fluids, or packed with foreign debris, they'll run for 10s of thousands of hours without issue.So just use a motor that beefy enough to not overheat, and make sure it's a sealed unit so it won't get packed with shit.Good to go.
>>64413081>3000 fps>low velocity...
>>64412388Just jam them or use microwaves
>>64412440mini pkm!
>>64412388Effective range of an MG against a small highly manuverable target doing 100kmh+ is going to be prettty low.While they will certainly be the knee jerk quick fix I think in the longer term autocannon airbrust will become the standard.When picking the cartridge for your MG turrets picking anything other than your service rifles cartridge is retarded because logi wins wars.
>>64412388The swarm of angry bees makes a comeback
>>64412388>detection and engagement range will likely be less than 100meh, even on flat terrain?>>64417380>Effective range of an MG against a small highly manuverable target doing 100kmh+ is going to be prettty low.we see a lot of drones flying more or less straight
>>64417409>we see a lot of drones flying more or less straightYes, and we saw drones using the standard commercial frequencies 2 years ago but not today.Drone warfare is evolving fast and with current image recognition and small processors I think it's reasonable to expect erratic automated terminal guidance in the near future.
>>64417380>Effective range of an MG against a small highly manuverable target doing 100kmh+ is going to be prettty lowErgo. high rpm gun in a tiny high velocity cartridge that weighs half as much as 5.7x28>autocannon airbrustToo large to be the universal solution to the very much universal threat of FPV's
>>64417445>>64417409Most likely with autonomous guidance the FPV's will leverage the great manouverability of the quadcopter and fly at 1m height following the ground thus making detection a very much last second thing.
>>64417460mount them on towers then.
>>64417460With how cheap compute is these days I wouldn't be surprised if we see drones operating the same as advanced AShM's with swarms picking a designator to go high while the rest use it's sensors to guild their low level attacks.Even in a completely EW fucked enviroment this could still be done over fiber with all drones linked to a single control computer.
