Is hydrostatic shock a meme?
>>64426203yeah
>>64426203Ask your mother
I dont know
what
>>64426203Bigger bullet=more dead and anyone who disagrees is a homosexual.
If we really evolved from monkeys, why do we want to cuddle big cats so much — the same cats that used to kill us in the trees?
how do you get ripped like that? Catbro tell us your secrets.
>>64426203I want put my pee pee in that cougar
>>64426493It's called toxoplasmosis, and you should get tested.
>>64426517What's if it came back negative then what? Didn't think about that did you
Yes. But somehow the term hydrostatic shock became mixed up with effects of secondary cavitation due to high velocity projectiles (not a meme).
>>64426203big kittah
>>64426203Kinda. Tissue can be violently displaced by a sufficiently large temporary wound cavity. Some tissues are soft and will stretch without taking catastrophic damage, others aren't as flexible, those will tear and bleed, leading to a more serious wound and greater hemorrhaging. These whether or not these effects occur is however dependent on several factors. Simply put, it requires:1. A projectile capable of violent expansion2. Enough velocity to cause full and violent expansion of the projectile3. Enough mass to expand at a desirable depth.All full power rifle rounds, and most intermediate rifle rounds can do this with the right ammo, given sufficient barrel length to get up to speed.All pistol rounds are insufficient, with the possible exception of wrist-breaker magnum revolvers firing very specific custom loaded/wildcat ammo, like some .500S&W necked down to .30cal with a 12" barrel.If you see commercial pistol ammo bragging about causing these kinds of shock effects, it's just marketing bullshit. (also applies to shotgun slugs)For pistol rounds, the ONLY relevant wounding mechanism is the bullet directly damaging the organs and structures in it's path.Expanding bullets can increase the damage potential since they increase in diameter after entering the target, these rounds do however offer less penetrating potential than non-expanding ammunition and may not reach deep enough to hit vital structures.Real flesh and blood isn't ballistics gel, it's full of bones and gristle. So a given round penetrating sufficiently in gel is no guaranteed that it'll do the same against a living being.Shots taken in a live scenario will likely be at weird angles that increase the relative penetration required to reach vital structures.inb4 some fucking underage zoomer fag replying something about AI...
these things suck in R2D2. people who touch grass say the same thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAkkvbInXtkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fUZw6er0Eg
>>64426715They only attack people with low testosterone that smell like fear
>>64426696>All full power rifle roundsI'm gonna nitpick that a little: the "magic number" for temporary cavitation seems to be ~2000fps and there are a number of chamberings and loadings that still just poke a hole or provide marginal cavitation, usually big-bore hunting rounds and often BP holdovers like .45-70.>>64426715Googer.
>>64426517Just beware about bringing that topic up here.Last time I did, some TOXO-brained cat fanatic get insanely ass-hurt and mass-reported by post about it until I got banned for a week.Until then I didn't know it was possible to get both warning/mute and a real ban, within 2 minutes, for the same post.
>>64426203yes
>>64426493Because macroevolutionary theory is just the naturalist creation myth
>>64426564Doesn't mean much. Parasites naturally evade screenings. They have to be in the middle of either moving, dying or breeding like mad to get picked up by a test. Usually they are in hiding. Otherwise, gun go boom. Big ouchie.
>>64426768Not sure if trolling or genuinely 'tarded....
>>64426815Sorry Bill Nye, but the ancient aliens are the ancient aliens.It's a genes-of-the-gap creation myth, abiogenesis is laughable, and the solution to random mutation not actually producing new, let alone genetically usable, mutation is to just keep marching backwards into deeper and deeper time as a "fix". Darwin jumped the gun confusing adaptation within finch beak length and it's been a century and a half of slithering horseshit out of the self-fellating "scientific" community since then. There's much more to link with common accounts of vistorsChrist'ys stay away you're equally bad as these
>>64426203Not in my experience. A supersonic rifle shot seems much more effective on game and pest animals vs.buckshot or large black powder calibers, even when the latter does a lot more tissue damage.
>>64426853Caliber matters. 20mm musket ball is devastating
>>64426617Case in point>>64426696Hydrostatic shock is the fuddlore that pressure waves can travel into the CNS and somehow cause a lights out. High velocity rounds exceeding the elasticity threshold of animal tissue is real, but it doesn't have a term.
>>64426753>Zoosadist gets bannedthat's good now they just need to get rid of the porn fags
>>64426940>pressure waves can travel into the CNS and somehow cause a lights out.Bizarrely, there is a similar effect that's absolutely 100% real, and no one knows exactly how or why it works.Some species of deer, primarily Euro-Asian roe deer, have a strange quirk to their nervous system which causes them to die if they're hit by large numbers of small shotgun pellets. They just flop over dead, instant lights out.Euros hunt these things with US no5 birdshot in the early fall, and US no3 shot (both lead, not steel) in the winter when the deer have their full winter coats and slightly larger pellets are needed to get the ½" inch or so of penetration that'll give the desired effect.It's super weird. None of these pellets damage any vital organs, the vast majority don't even make it past the ribs, yet it kills instantly.It's not some obscure backwoods poacher-tier shit either. It's common and even the super strict hunting/animal welfare agencies in euroland are fine with it, it's an effective and ethical way to hunt according to them.Although since it's a form of shotgun hunting, the range is limited to 25-30 yards, but with an ultra-tight enough choke and hot ammo, it's apparently a reliably method up to 45 yards or so.
>>64426203Yes, it's fucking bullshit.>>64426617>>64426940Good posts.
>>64426696Actually, why don't we have computer models that give a reasonable approximation of what happens when a loading hits a meat target? Why are we still hitting blocks of gel? It must be possible, I assume it's just a matter of cost, there's no AI required.
>>64426203Not above ~2200fps give or take the diameter and weight of the bullet.Make sure you know the difference between hydrostatic and hydraulic shock as well.
>>64426753Based jannies.
>>64428208And I want to add that while the phenomenon is real, it’s massively overstated in terms of direct lethality. Tissue displacement is still king over all else. Bullets most commonly kill, particularly in cases of game, through:1. Blood loss.2. Damage to the nervous system. 3. Destruction of vital tissue and organs.4. Septicemia or asphyxiation.In that order.
>>64426203I thought it was just fuddlore till I watched the charlie kirk video. how else do you explain that sort of instant lights-out from a neck shot?
>>64426753>I didn't know it was possible to get both warning/mute and a real banHappened to me as well in a thread where I was arguing with some pro-russian guy. I actually laughed when I saw the "You have been warned You have been banned" screen and screenshotted it. The reason this happens is probably because jannies can give warnings but only mods can give bans, so two different people are responding to your report.
>>64428258Hydraulic shock (NOT hydrostatic shock) of blood into the brain, bursting cerebral vessels. The bullet passed through his carotid as evidence by the spurting blood from the wound. Big game animals killed in Africa that were shot in the heart and dropped immediately were found to have severe cerebral hemorrhaging upon dissection, while those shot in the same area that did not drop immediately were not.
>>64428307It’s because Jesus raptured him you godless heathen.
>>64426507Start meowing.
>>64428337Truly the emperor's finest
And here I had thought the mental magic hydroshock term had been entirely supplanted to refer only to the energy dump's temp stretch.I mean if you want to get technical, a high impact that smacks a bone in the neck or upper chest of sufficient FPE might create the conditions to inflict a standard knockout response but obviously, that kind of situation anything but the shot is inconsequential.
>>64426983It could be sensory overload. Way too much damage causing the brain to lock up and stay locked up as blood pressure drops.
>>64426493Because genetic mutations still happen which still have to be removed from the genepool.
>>64426749There isn’t a magic number.The degree of temporary cavity generation appears to be determined primarily by 3 major factors, so far as we can select for:1. Instantaneous velocity (i.e. the velocity the bullet is traveling at during that particular point in its path)2. Bullet frontal area3. Projectile form factorYou can increase of decrease the other 2 variables and arrive at an entirely different velocity threshold. Case in point, Fackler’s pig tests showed that tumbling 5.45 FMJ did next to no TSC damage to most flexible tissues encountered despite having a MV of >2900 FPS. On the flip side, see picrel for substantial TSC damage from a .45-70 SP impacting at ~1700 FPS.Dr. Gary Roberts comments that temporary cavitation damage in flexible tissues is likely to begin at around 1600 FPS with well designed .357 magnum SPs and JHPs. Before any revolverfag gets too excited, “start causing noticeable TSC damage” =/= broader wounding than everything else.
>>64426659Mountain Lions are bigger than leopards on average. If they had a more ballsy temperament they likely would've been hunted to extinction by settlers. As of now it's basically impossible to get one to attack even hunting them with dogs.Meanwhile a leopard WILL charge you 100% of the time if you don't kill it with the initial shot.
>>64426725They basically never attack. Probably ran around soaked in blood and poss to trigger it.
>>64428258It’s well known within terminal ballistics circles that a sufficiently large temporary cavity can knock the CNS offline temporarily if it stretches or impinges upon the spinal cord with enough force, even if it doesn’t cause permanent damage. There are other reasons why someone could faint instantaneously upon being shot, but the bullet definitely impacted close enough for that to happen.
>>64430185My bad, here’s the photo mentioned.
>>64430214MtF trans stank detected. Cougar shifting to attack mode. . .
>>64428156Modeling complex fluid dynamics requires very complex software, and it's demands extreme amounts of processing power compared to most other computing tasks.And that's just modeling the behavior of a singular fluid like water.If you then add exponentially more dynamic variables such as the densities, structures, and stretch/yield limits of various organs in living body, you'll end up with an absolute monster of absurdly complex programming, that can't be run by anything less than a literal super computer. All of these factors mean that the cost of developing and using such capabilities would be extreme, far outweighing the benefits.
>>64430214mother cougars will attack anything and everything that comes near their cubs and they love to den near trails because prey animals like deer use trails more than humans.
>>64430316All of that is well within the realm of financial possibility for any company that cared enough to do so. There's just no reason to.
>>64430185This is the factually correct take on this. I've been saying it for years(presumably we both cyber stalk him on the same forum). Have fun getting shouted down by all the idiots who watched a lucky gunner video or are going off hot takes fackler made 30yrs ago. FWIW I believe Roberts does mention the figure as being 1500 fps for meaningful TSC with truly large bore rifles in the .50 and up category, the 1600fps answer was specifically in answer to 9mm projectiles.
>>64430303They still call that frame style a dead cat frame in the FPV world just because of that one guy
>>64430006>we will never see these guys or vostroyans again because of Ukraine bullshitThanks for ruining everything for everyone yet again eastern europe.
>>64426203>>hydrostatic shockPerhaps just don't use that term. Its too mixed up with early explanations for phenomena that was observed. Can you shoot a goat in the leg and get a reading in the veins and arteries in its ass? Yes. Does that mean it is going to have a significant or any effect at all? No.However, speed kills. Mammals are liquid meat bags. The faster you hit the stuff Mammals are made of, the harder it resists. This causes tearing. It can cause destruction far beyond the size of the bullet going through. As far as the "bang flop" of "hydrostatic shock", there is something to it. Hunters for a long time have shot deer in the neck. Its not recommended anymore. Ethical, ya ya ya, but it happens. All the time. And what is the effect of hitting a deer size animal in the neck with a 7mm Remington magnum from 50 yards? It will seize up and fall over. Without hitting the spine. Of course it bleeds out quick. The transfer of energy and damage to the neck and secondary effects happening to the spinal column shut the animal down.Call it whatever you want, it happens.
>>64426768Macro and micro are markers in the same theory. Thats like saying pages exist but chapters of a book do not.
>>64426753Car people are fucked in the headI’ve got a mouser in the shop but I don’t fucking touch it
>>64426696>Some tissues are soft and will stretch without taking catastrophic damage, others aren't as flexible, those will tear and bleed, leading to a more serious wound and greater hemorrhagingNot quite. For one thing, most of those firmer tissues are minimally vascular, meaning there is no chance of hemorrhage resulting from them. The more important ones are also things like arterial walls. However, these are unlikely to rupture (under otherwise normal physiologic circumstances) due to sudden deformation without direct contact with the projectile. This is because of elastin. Elastin is a biomolecular component of many human tissues that, well, makes them elastic. They are surprisingly resilient to deformation and displacement.I'd actually say that softer tissues are just about the only thing where cavitation is likely to be extremely damaging. These are relatively homogeneous and highly vascular organs such as the spleen or lung (or irrelevant tissues like adipose AKA fat). Because they have less intercellular matrix, collagen, etc, they aren't really able to hold up to force in the same way as most human tissues.The tl;dr of this is that the cavitation you see in ballistic gel tests and such, generally does not represent real damage to a human or animal body. Tissues are highly organized, have many more layers than you likely expect (many of these layers being indistinguishable even when butchering game) and generally can disrupt projectiles, minimizing the damage taken from penetrating trauma, including high velocity projectiles. I have no doubt that this is an ancient evolutionary adaptation from mammalian (or older) ancestors who survived attacks better if their internal tissues were more resistant to penetrating trauma. But of course, if you hit a vital point directly, you can kill.
>>64431149>i got a mauser but I don't touch it because it's a dirty nazi gun>also I'm a tranny
>>64426488but rifle bullets kill better and are smaller.
>>64426696That's not hydrostatic shock.
>>64426488Here is your dumb nigger award.
>>64426203MY .40 CAL CAN TAKE HIM.
>>64426507Eat nothing but meat and workout constantly.
>>64431499>those firmer tissues are minimally vascular, meaning there is no chance of hemorrhage resulting from themLiver.png
