How tf did they hit target at range While on horse?
You start training 'em young and you never stop.
>>64433088If you practice a skill since childhood you tend to be proficient in it.
Target rich environment
Do a fake cavalry charge at enemyEnemy closes ranks to counter your chargeInstead of charging suddenly turn around and dump as many arrows as you can into the tightly packed formation.Guaranteed to hit something while exposing very little.Added benefit of affecting enemy morale and frustrating them into trying to pursue you and break formation.
>>64433088Is the concept of practice just alien to you or some shit?
>>64433142You're either born good or not
>>64433150Guess that explains your lack of sex life
>>64433138>watch documentary about the Mongols>every battle is "then they did a feigned retreat and killed the disorganized enemy when they started following"
>>64433088War archery is primarily artillery.
>>64433182A big part of the military history of 'great, conquering, genius' commanders is "and then their enemy decided to be retarded, again".
>the Persians teach their youths three things only, riding, and archery and truth-tellingHerodotus, although he might've been exaggerating as usual with the last one
>>64433261Well, he wasn't a Persian
>>64433269I’ll leave you a lol
They spent less time off the horse than on the horse. To such an extent that when they did have to shoot arrows when not on a horse, it was easier for them to do while sitting down on the ground.They horse archery from child, to such an extent that they were bow-legged and short because their legs grew up to confirm to the body of a horse. That's why are fantasy orcs are described as such when they-re not uruk-hai uber-orcs with incredible physiques in whatever setting they're written. Tolkein had a merited fear of the golden horse.>Mongolian horse archers could be here. With a naval empire, you can go anywhere at all.
>>64433473Tolkien had easterners as asiatic-coded though.
>>64433088First, lotta training. Most horse archers come from nomadic tribes who's entire existence centered around horse riding. You'd have kids riding horses nearly as soon as they could walk and practicing horse archery as soon as they could pull back the string. Second, horse archers didn't have the same kind of range as foot archers. They'd usually ride into shooting range, loose a few arrows, and then run. Horse archers wanted to kite you. They were generally faster than armored lancers and could shoot while retreating. Third, there was this trick where you anticipate the hoofbeats and shoot when the horse was between steps. It took practice but gave you something like a half second window to take a shot.
>>64433488>easterners as asiatic-coded though.It wasn't clearly stated either way, but with a name like "Harad" it is safe to assume they were fantasy Muslims - more civilized than the sallow-skinned, bow-legged, slant-eyed mongol orcs that extinguish anything in their path...but still barbaric and an enemy to the Númenorean huWhite-man's nation-states and culture.
You shoot near point-blank while on horse, this guarantees a hit and velocity suffisant enough to pierce through armor
These were low poundage bows, and these guys fought more or less like western carbine cavalry. Their job was essentially to run down enemy skirmishers who couldn't stand up to a cavalry charge, and who were our ranged by light bow.
>>64433664I mean, this obviously. You get really, really fucking close. It's like none of you guys ever played mount and blade before.
>>64433190in all aspects of life, retardation is the norm, competence the exception
>>64433105>>64433106Pretty much these. You just start training a young boy, and you NEVER STOP.Also, the role of cavalry archers wasn't "each man shoots called shots" but more along the lines of "We'll ride to the side of the enemy infantry formation, and just launch a volley of arrows at their general direction. A couple of those arrows will hit something. And then we do it again. And again. And again. And again. Until they have had enough and start running. THEN we will chase them and shoot them with called shots at close range, as they are trying to run away. Oh, and if they get too annoyed at us and start charging us... well, they are on foot and we are on horseback - we'll just ride away, and start from the beginning."That's how you do cavalry archers. Just like all larger unit tactics, it isn't about individual aiming skill, it's all about fire-for-effect. I mean, individual skill to make a called shot from horse-back IS pretty amazing and cool, but that's not what cavalry archers are about.
>>64433687>It's like none of you guys ever played mount and blade before.ranged weapons are a pain in the ass to level skills with.So much easier to get an awl and poke people to victory
Since there was a limit to the number of arrows that could be carried on the battlefield, it would have been difficult to judge when and how many diversionary shots to use.
>>64433088They did were drive-bys since they had the advantage of moblity unlike regular foot archers.
>>64433723>but that's not what cavalry archers are about.You treat cavalry archers like a soldier. They're not. They're not trained, they're not equipped. Cavalry archer is the peasant of the nomadic civilisation.It's not a caste of people given free food to train how to swing a piece of metal around.It's people who make their living chasing the herds around on a horse, lassoing the bulls and wild horses, shooting down wolves attacking their herd, fucking up the birds of prey that try and eat their shit.It just happens their skills can be pointed at people in a way that a settled farmer's knowledge of how to till a field can not.The real training they received when going from farmer to warrior was working with lances/spears and shit.
>>64434097that's a lot of words, but what are you even saying? Yes, of course "civilian" horse archery skills translate to pillaging....horse...archery....skills. Next you'll say that 1800th century British Canadians whose pent more time on a fishing deck than on land since birth make for good Royal Navy seamen. Yes.
>>64433088Arrows aren't real. The Mongols just made "pew" noises and scared their enemies so badly they died of shock. Evidence like """arrowheads""" and """firsthand reports""" were post-facto fabrications to save face.
>>64433088>twang, twang, twang, watchin' niggas whang
>>64434109You forgot the crisis actors.
>>64433773except there wasn't like at the battle of carrhae where the persians were being resupplied during the battle
>>64433654Enjoy a video of a Persian lord sneeding and feeding over "desert level music".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR511iAedYU
>>64434097Yeah that's the first generation of cavalry archers. The next generation is raised by guys who either got paid to shoot arrows into people or figured out that herding was harder work than just go and shooting arrows into other people's herds and stealing them, or that you really needed to be able to shoot well to protect your herds from those cunts who came to steal them.And from then on the warrior tradition keeps rolling and building momentum, getting a big boost when someone who farms figures out they can pay you to shoot arrows at their enemies.At that point the distinction between these guys and trained soldiers is very small, since fathers train sons the skills of fighting.
>>64434109That was the plan but Stanley Kubrik insisted on as much realism as possible which resulted in hundreds of thousands of actual casualties.
>>64434131>Face that has camels written all over it>Most American accent you'll ever hearJarring.
>>64434131>1.5 hours of sophisticated seetheMany thanks. I will take my time enjoying this.
>>64434125>except there wasn't like at the battle of carrhae where the persians were being resupplied during the battleThat's distinctly put out as a counter-example to the norm.
>>64433190I recall reading about this one Jurchen campaign in China where their tactic to get around a competent army in rough, fortified terrain was to make it look like their commander embezzled funds. They had a few inside men accuse him of hoarding resources for a coup. Once he'd been executed and replaced by a dullard, they pushed on the position.
>>64433088They didn't. It was all staged.
>>64434131the real big brain take here is that the romanticized western stereotype is vastly more valuable and attractive than anything any of those savage orientals actually represent irl
>>64433088They just spam bred sons and horses, spam made arrows, and spam fired arrows while being able to maneuver and flank quickly. They were a one trick pony. Well, two tricks because they would siege castles by camping outside of them long term. A very bad combination of hacking assholes who needed no luxuries to survive.
>>64433184no
>>64433088It helps to be drunk on fermented horse wine
>>64434097...But that's not even true.>Cavalry archer is the peasant of the nomadic civilisation.Cavalry archer was the elite heavy cavalry of the settled and highly centralized Iranian society.
>>64435717Three tricks: they're also light cavalry and can charge and run down any unprotected infantry they come across. Everyone always acts like they just shoot arrows, but if you don't have spears to ward off their advance, they will just run you down and you're fucked.
>>64433488>>64433654>Near HaradMiddle East / North Africa (Hence the Corsairs)>Far HaradAfrica>EasterlingsPersians / Chinese>VariagsRussians>OrcsHuns / Mongols / What Humans Can be if Put to Evil PurposeSimple as.
>>64433261No, it seems quite universal that the Achaemenid era Persians genuinely and truly detested lying. Of course, they were white literal Aryans at that time.
>>64435816>muscovitesUruk hai
>>64435805Also the Hephthalites.Also the early Japanese.Also the Turkic polities.Also the Mongol successors (Golden Horde, Yuan, etc).Also the Hungarians.Also the Mameluks.Etc.Nomadic Societies conceive of cavalry archery (including the Medes / Elamites / Saka / Parthians who inspired the Persian iterations) but Settled Societies are the ones who develop and refine it.It long outlives the actual nomadism in a given society.
>>64435805>Cavalry archer was the elite heavy cavalry of the settled and highly centralized Iranian society.You can replace Iranian here by most asian settled societies, Asia beginning in Anatolia and ending in Japan
>>64435835Subhumans born out of the Borscht pits so that tracks
>>64435840>Hephthalites.I'm just glad they got a mention on /k/
I remember reading that (1) civilized horse archers often did shower shooting, where the entire regiment was pumping shots more like suppressive fire or beating down a zone (that's the MG term right?) than individual marksmanship. I am sure some of them could do otherwise. Similarly turkomans and the like wouldn't be able to close the distance to make their shots really fuck up, so they'd just shoot at a distance which would result in a sergeant wearing quilted shit looking like those dogs that fought a porcupine.>>64435696The big brain fact is that orientalism boomerangs back and becomes an adopted and beloved local tradition. If you told anyone but an academic type like him that bellydancer chic as we all know it is Western rather than indigenous they'd be pissed off at you.I didn't watch it, just the last bit, I do agree with the antipathy for "IT's all deserts and dunes" the same way that'd reduce Europe to just ye old engerland. But at the day I think rule of cool is what matters. It just so happens that authenticity is very cool most of the time. Operative word being most, not always. In his case it is, in Nolan's shitty bleak odysseus it would be, but other times it's not as cool as the fantasy.
>>64435840>(including the Medes / Elamites / Saka / Parthians who inspired the Persian iterations)idk about the Elamites, pretty sure they were more fond of standard infantry archers along with chariots. Likewise the Parthians and the other groups minus the Elamites didn't "inspire" Persian cavalry, they come from the same source. All were Iranic, nomadic groups that diverged over time and settled in Iran and the surrounding region. It'd be like saying Seleucid phalangites inspired the Ptolemys.
>>64435907>which would result in a sergeant wearing quilted shit looking like those dogs that fought a porcupineI only know about Japan but their armors are speficically for designed for the porcupine scenariosTheir pauldrons especially dont embrace the shape of the shoulder but act rather as shields that when you move your shoulders forward or backwards will shield you from any projectiles and the arrows get stuck there and they do end up looking like up porcupines after a battle
In an era when stirrups were not yet available, archery on horseback would have been an even more difficult feat.
>>64435907>The big brain fact is that orientalism boomerangs back and becomes an adopted and beloved local tradition.But it hasn't. Try telling an Iranian that fantasy Arab shit is their tradition and they will scream at you they're not Arabs, first and foremost. >If you told anyone but an academic type like him that bellydancer chic as we all know it is Western rather than indigenous they'd be pissed off at you....It's not western. It's a thing literal sex-slaves did. You'd be whipped for dressing like that in most Arabian countries, I don't think they care where the trope came from.
>>64435938In Asia they were invented earlier than Europe thoughAt least by year 0
>>64433654Considering Gondor is literally the siege of Vienna I think you're getting a bit 2deep into which of the great others were generic Muslims versus the golden horde. I'd argue more that Asians aren't present in tolkein's self described Christian mythology for western Europe at all. And if so it's only through much looser parallels than the same parallels applied to the ottomans. Even the easterlings and wild men who matched for sauron fit better as janissaries and other slave/tribute soldiers than Muslims themselves. Part of what makes their addition monstrous is man at war with his fellow man for a dark power. That doesn't exist if the easterlings are also just foreign hordes2
>>64435816Huns were white btw, 100% of all surviving attested Hunnic language words are of Indo-European origin.
>>64435956Those elves were white before Morgoth soul-fucked them into being another species too, anon
>>64435938>>64435942Stirrups are irrelevant, effective horse archery predates them by 2 millennia. Even bringing up stirrups marks someone as an idiot repeating old discredited memes instead of doing their homework
>>64436090a solid saddle would be a pretty big boon for horse archery though
>>64435939The conception/fantasy of it as we understand it today is Western. The actual harem was tediously boring compared to the orientalist fantasy of it being hyper-sexed. I would need to do a deeper dive but in all the research I've ever done the 1001 nights bikini-brass-bimbo harem bellydancer is a Western fantasized imagination no different than some big breasted redskin Injun woman wearing a bra of that bone hair pipe armor - it's exaggerated bullshit at best like our folk myths of pirates and so forth.>You'd be whipped for dressing like that in most Arabian countries, I don't think they care where the trope came from.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raqs_sharqiYou can just spend the entire night finding examples of it being practiced locally. You need to think of the Muslim world the same way we think of the United States - yes they have Afghanistan, they also have or had places that were much more relaxed, and even within places with strict de-jure laws there is thriving disobedience or contempt. Texas is home to both "You can't watch anime because it's got a high school girl looking sexy" and the godforsaken faggotry of an Austin, just as so with Lebanon or Egypt. They won't wear it out in public but it'll be part of the cultural mythos like Oktoberfest lowcut dresses were back in the day when women's dress was more modest and less revealing.And yes I know the Iranians are Argentinian levels of "I'm not like the other girls", I'm talking about the ones who don't spend every waking moment going "I'm not Arab I'm [x]".
>>64435835>GROND!!!
>>64436142Also I know you'll think you did a gotcha with>"Since the 1950s, it has been illegal in Egypt for belly dancers to perform publicly with their midriff uncovered"But as is the case with autism and being unable to understand laws aren't cosmic physical laws that are never broken you'll also notice a 2007 picture with the midriff uncovered. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia9tnqA58yg Or a 2010 dance in Cairo.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LI7E2EXTHs&list=PL4C047CBDC74F4CFB&index=7 Or 10 years ago but with the lycra covering.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1CscDKQNUs&list=PL4C047CBDC74F4CFB&index=5 Or 2010 without the lycra covering in Cairo.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlGxi-XvWhM or 2016 Cairo.I can go on and on and on. Evidently they're not being whipped! >>64435932The big ol shoulder pauldrons are pretty neat. It makes sense why they didn't much bother with shields except as mantles or however you phrase the siege fences.>>64435949Please see Tolkien's quote of allegory and his hatred of it. Given the migration era rooting of the story it's more likely to be Catalunian fields with Atilla than it is Vienna.
>>64433142that and delayed gratification
>>64436156>He hated allegory so just like... ignore all the parallels to the largest cavalry charge in recorded history into... a besieging army... It's not even allegory to just rip an event right out of history. Which is what he did. The idea the "allegory" acktually is orientals or vatniks is just reaching extremely hard when the real world parallels line up for (Barbary) corsairs and not throat singing horse archers in the orcish ranks.
>>64436156>Please see Tolkien's quote of allegoryNot him but Tolkien saying he cordially dislikes allegory is all well and good, but he did create a setting explicitly to be a mythology for England, with Middle Earth being the ancient history of the world, Eru being the Christian God, the Shire being explicitly where Tolkien grew up when he moved to England, and Mordor being exactly where Turkey is in relation to it
>>64433182feigned retreats are really hard and have a bad habit of turning into real routs, to be fair.Being able to routinely pull one off actually is a sign of staggeringly good discipline and top tier generals.That's also why people kept falling for them. The likelyhood of the other side being able to pull it off isn't great.
>>64436995>and Mordor being exactly where Turkey is in relation to itlittle did he know it was actually pakistan that he should've been worried about
>>64433654Ahem"Harad" is a Sindarin elven word that simply means 'south'. It's as Muslim-coded as "Gondor" which is also Sindarin (stone-land)
>>64435956That might have something to do with the Huns conquering the everloving shit out of the Pontic Steppe Germans and the latter adopting Hunnic traditions.All the way to Thuringia, even.Eastern Germanic tribes were staggeringly Hunnified for about a century.
Did horse archer tactics work with handguns?
>>64438170yes, that's literally what dragoons and hussars are.
>>64438184dragoons are mobile infantry thoughever, they fight by getting off their horses
>>64438191Originally, that is true. However that began to change as time went on.
>>64438170Carabiniers. So name for using Carbines. It wasn't quite Horse Archer tactics because muskets didn't have that kind of fire rate but they did do a lot of shoot-and-scoot tactics.
>>64435938>>64435942>>64436090>horse archery>stirrupsIrrelevant like the other anon said. Stirrups are for bracing yourself against the horse so you can exert more force via a handheld object.>Force = Mass x Acceleration Acceleration is the combined speed of your horse and your swinging arm, your mass is you own, but stirrups allow you to add ~1000lbs of horse ass to the force of your swing.
>>64440379>~1000lbs of horse ass to the force of your swing.And to the force of an arrow you unleash.
>>64440382no...the speed does get transferred, but not the mass. You can't actually fire a projectile with 1000lbs of horse ass unless you're a trebuchet.
>>64440405dafuq is dat?
>>64438170Other anons are retarded and list all sorts of cavalry except the ones that actually do this.It's fucking reiters, retards.
>>64433488In a letter he described orcs as mongol-adjacent. Comparing them to>The least lovely of the mongol types But I think the actual thing he was going for is that they have squinted eyes and flat faces, and even in the letter he refers to them as a twisted adaptation of that and not actually just filthy mongorians.
>>64433088In the battle of Carrhae since Crassus force mostly consisted of infantry the horse archers just got within a safe range and just pelted the infantry for hours, if the infantry moved out to pursue they'd flee a bit and fire. Eventually the roman cavalry wings tried to chase them away but they only got separated from the main force and then overwhelmed. Once the infantry was on its own the Parthians just kept firing using up pretty much all their arrows until the romans cohesion collapsed. Whats interesting is that other than the roman cavalry getting cut off and killed, the arrow volleys were only causing slight wounds in the battle. it was only once they lost cohesion and started retreating at night that they got picked apart by the parthian melee cavalry and suffered most of their losses that way. Basically horse archers usually didn't do the galloping and the shooting at the same time. Shooting a target while at a gallop is a showmanship thing.
>>64434108>1800th Century British Canadian Seaman of His Majesty’s Royal Interstellar Navy
>>64434108For American Gold we'd shed no tears
>>64440439I believe that is a whirlygig.
>>64440721HE WAS THE CAPTAIN OF THE NIGHTINGALETWENTY-ONE DAYS FROM CLYDE IN COAL
