What's the doctrinal difference between Pantsir and Tor SAM sistems usage?Most sources pin the Pantsir as a point-defense system and Tor as a short-range sam, but on paper Pantsir has a better radar, larger warheads and longer ranged missiles.>inb4 both are shit, OP is a zigger, delete this!!1
>>64436565The main difference is:Pantsir = air force (replacement for Tunguska)Tor = ArmySoviets had overlapping system but using different OKBs and guidance (ie IR vs Radar)https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-ADCP-CP.html
>>64436593>Pantsir = air force (replacement for Tunguska)>Tor = ArmyWhile I know that Pantisr is mean to replace the Tunguska, are you sure that only the air force uses it ?I'm pretty sure both systems are used by the Russian army in Ukraine?
>>64436609Yes, it's confusing and stupid.It comes down to who supplies the troops that operate it and who pays for the system.
>>64436565pantsir is just a failed cheapo project, basically a tunguska on a truckbed. it's so hilarously bad it's like the poster child of russian mic corruption.tor is supposed to be able to engage multiple targets simultaneously kind of like a mini S-300 and was originally designed against cruise missiles. it worked better than pantsir against cheap drones but against other threats it still clearly falls short.
>>64436622>but against other threats it still clearly falls short.As in worse than Pantsir or as in short in general?>it worked better than pantsir against cheap drones but against other threats it still clearly falls short.I've read wiki articles on both systems and this is apparently true:>"has been deployed at the Khmeimim Air Base, allegedly, on multiple occasions proving to be superior to the Pantsir-S1 in countering UAV swarm attacks, the vehicles destroyed more than 45 improvised UAVs as of June 2020.[64][65]"
>>64436609At least initially it was developed for them, the Navy also adopted it. So I'm not sure, it could end like a replacement for the Tor too.
>>64436629They seem to use the Pantsir to defend VIP targets in cities instead of the Tor, idk if it's related to the responsibilities or the fact they trust more in those things (there're videos of both failing against some small targets, but in the case of the pantsir it was during early boost phase, the Tor is just comically useless against small ISR drones watching from a few km of distance)PS. there's not a lot of info but in 2024 someone (ukies) leaked technical/trials info related to the pantsir or a similar system.
>>64436640Here I go, this is the leak iirchttps://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62093171/#q62093182Probably the most substantial infoPS. I don't remember if it was that leak or another, 2024 had like 4 big leaks related to the russian MIC
>>64436647The links are dead, F
>>64436629>As in worse than Pantsir or as in short in general?generally ineffective, as compared to being outright useless as pantsir is.
Tor is tracked, it is supposed to protect moving columns and defensive positions (Army)Pantsir is wheeled, it is cheaper and moves much faster, it is not supposed to be used on frontlines, it provides point defence of rear sites, both military and civilian.
>>64436593>>64436622>>64436630OK. Thanks. But why even procure two different systems with overlapping role?>>64436672Shouldn't AA be behind the frontline anyway? Why would you need a slow tracked vehicle stationed at the line of contact.
>>64436672So that classification implies that the Pantsir is better?I mean not having wheels shouldn't be the only factor in not using Tor in Pantsir roles because there are self-contained fighting module version of Tor.In must also be something else. Maybe the addition of 30mm guns.
>>64436705>versionVersions*
>>64436672It can even be mounted on the same truck as the Pantsir.
>>64436700It is supposed to move as part of a column with other tracked vehicles
>>64436705Pantsir is cheaper and has guns. Tor is older and has outdated electronics, it also can fire on the move. The wheeled Tors are merely experimental vehicles.
>>64436724>it also can fire on the moveTor or Pantsir?
>>64436700>But why even procure two different systems with overlapping role?Twice the opportunity to embezzle funds. The whole reason they're not procuring tors is because they're too expensive.
>>64436744neither, russia has no SAM systems capable of firing on the move. the guns on the pantsir are useless for any modern purpose because of terrible accuracy and range.
>>64436750I don't think that a lot of funds get embezzled with systems being actually produced.It's more common during few prototypes unicorn systems like the Armata and Su-75.
>>64436756>russia has no SAM systems capable of firing on the moveWiki states:>the Tor is capable of acquiring and tracking targets while the TLAR is moving. Due to the interference with launch operations while in motion, missiles can be fired only when the system is stationary>Pantsir-S1 combat vehicles can fire missiles on the move.>the guns on the pantsir are useless for any modern purpose because of terrible accuracy and range.I think that the main problem is their inability to fire programmed ammo, which makes them almos useless against drone swarms
>>64436764>I think that the main problem is their inability to fire programmed ammothe main problem is their atrocious accuracy that makes them unsuitable for hitting any targets smaller than tactical aircraft at range.
>>64436760>I don't think that a lot of funds get embezzled with systems being actually produced.refer to repackaged baofengs inside a bulky plastic cage about that.
>>64436772What?
>>64436744Tor, at least its latest mods
>>64436700>Why would you need a slow tracked vehicle stationed at the line of contact.Because attack helicopters exist and will annihilate your front line if you don't bring something to counter them.
The Pantsir is much cheaper than Tor.
>>64436785NTAThere was a contract for a modern encrypted radios for the Army.It turned out to be the shell of the radio as advertised.But all the knobs buttons and ports merely connected to a smaller nesting doll / Easter egg of a Baofeng civ radio inside.
>>64436926Sounds typical for the Russian army, kek
Bump
