Which on was a superior machine?
Post engine life.
>>64442701American technology triumphs over kraut-jank, so whats new?
>>64442705Post K:D against american fighters
>>64442701p80 with swept wings
>>64442707And why would that matter, you braindead weheraboo retard? We are specifically discussing the performance of one plane against another.
>>64442701None of them
>>64442767>During testing, the Me 262 was found to be faster than the British Gloster Meteor jet fighter, and had better visibility to the sides and rear (mostly due to the canopy frames and the discoloration caused by the plastics used in the Meteor's construction), and was a superior gun platform to the Meteor F.1 which had a tendency to snake at high speed and exhibited "weak" aileron response.Your response?
>>64442790Your point?
>>64442701crazy how we went from these pieces of shit to Sabres and mig15s in like 5 years
>>64442790>Your response?It looks cool, therefore I like it, therefore it is the best because only my opinion mattersAlso it did pretty well in Korea despite the fact it was technologically outclassed by newer jet fighters, which makes it even cooler
>>64442843>pieces of shitCalling the P-80 that is a bit harshSure it was outclassed by the MIG, but what plane wasn't? Doesn't mean it was bad
>>64442701>>64442767>>64442861interesting, let's see the Soviet's ww2 jet.
>>64442705what's the difference?>>64442707>post k:d of a jet vs propeller-driven air craft when the comparison is between two jets.
>>64442701Only the Messerschmitt has a cool Blue Oyster Cult song about it.>IN APRIL OF FORTY FIIIIIVE
>>64442701The P-80 had modern self aiming gunsights. The Me-262 had that in theory but it did not work right and most pilots didn't even try to use it.
>>64442843It went from super secret tech that almost none of the right engineers had access to to widely researched and developed. Of course there would be a quick huge leap in technology.
>>64442701I like the Kikka, its just a smol me262. Kudos to the engineers who pieced together how to make the engines from just a few pictures.
Although it was the plane that killed top ace Bong, it was a huge success as a jet trainer.
>>64442790All of this shit was fixed with the later Meteor versions. The fuselage was lengthened to address the snaking, a bubble canopy was installed, and it received more powerful engines.Meanwhile, the guns on the 262 would jam because they were in mounts they were never designed for. It would snake at high speeds too, but unlike with the Meteor, it was never fixed. And the axial flow turbojets, while ahead of time, were much more sensitive to airflow disruptions and damage, making them even more fragile and unreliable for a first-gen jet engine.
>>64442701>OH N-!!!!
>>64443095They had some previous experience with their own turbojet designs.
>>64442701The one with a functional logistics train and constant fuel supply behind it.
>>64442887He was referring to Krautjank obviously
>>64442937>self aiming gunsightsThe fuck?
>>64442701The P-80 obviously because it wasn't built in a cave by starving Germans.
>>64444354WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
>>64444041
>>64442705Apparently the german engineers went to great efforts building engines without nickel because they had very little available.
>>64442701I want to say the P80 simply because it wasn't squeezed for resources but I don't know that much about it.
>>64445657I thought you guys knew all about military planes & stuff
It's a shame about what happened to Richard Bong, a top scoring American ace of ww2.Such a stupid death.
>>64445952>many of the earthquakes that Southern California has experienced in the last three years weren't earthquakes at all, but the explosion of atomic bombs>general manager of Bing Crosby Enterprises>in our detonation tests, made in desert country not far from Los Angeles, the explosion of a pea-size amount created a hole in the desert>workers had to use tongs 10 ft long in extracting the energy from uraniumbut honestly the most interesting story:>an electric appliance manufacturer said today a combination clothes washer, potato peeler, dish washer and ice cream freezer will be on the market early in 1946, barring unexpected developmentsI wonder what developments kept this from the market?
>>64447000They tried to do all four at once and it kept unexplainably ripping the clothes off of the testing house wife.We used to be a real nation.>>64442701The german. Engineers so good we had to steal all of their best so the commies couldn't have them.
>>64442701ME262 because it killed more Nazis
>>64447826Didn't stop Me262 from shooting down Mustangs tho
>>64447956>turning fightsExtended turn fights were relatively rare in ww2 and the most important area of performance for fighters was speed. Most shot-downs were surprises. Jet ace Bär's claims flying the Me 262 are like 70 % fighters. t. diff anon
>>64445952Dick Bong was such a celebrity that his death was fucking number two headline to THE NUKING OF HIROSHIMA. Christ, he really was a legend.
>>64447956>Despite orders to stay grounded, Nowotny chose to fly a mission against an enemy bomber formation flying some 9,100 m (30,000 ft) above, on 8 November 1944. He claimed two P-51D Mustangs destroyed before suffering engine failure at high altitude.
>>64447983True, but when you compare his kill count of 40 against guys like Erich Hartmann who had 352 victories...
>>64445952>Man's Most Destructive Force, One Equal to 2000 B-29 Loads, Blasts NipsEven back then, in more cultured and literate times, they were outshitposting us
>>64442707Just as unsustainable as the engines. The US cycled their pilots back to train recruits, imparting their experience on the next generation, therefore accumulating institutional experience and raising the floor of new pilots. The Luftwaffle had to live in a "target rich environment" (also known as losing hard) and kept their pilots in service until they died. This meant rookies either were naturals and learned by the book, or were eliminated quickly. Either way, experience (and men, machines) went wasted.Sure, you got a number of pilots who survived quite a long while and racked up impressive numbers due to being thrown into the fire again and again, but in a total war, a handful of exceptional pilots aren't worth more than their propaganda value. And propaganda you can print more of. Exceptional talent is irreplaceable.
In the Pacific Theater, even engine failure could result in MIA.Both Bong and McGuire met their end as if they had used up all their luck.
>>64448024I believe that was at least partially deliberate choice. They knew they would lose a long war of attrition so they instead tried to win a short war. Germans actually did rotate experienced pilots to do training, just nowhere near as much as US or RAF.
>>64442701Is this even a contest? Wasn't P80 way faster than Me262 by April of 45?
>>64448041It wasn't, the Germans couldn't afford to rotate experienced pilots back. On one hand, it would lower the quality of the fighter squadrons, which had become increasingly dependent on a few experienced pilots for effectiveness with attrition making the rest of the pilots green replacements. On the other hand, the retarded propaganda environment demanded that the big aces stay on the front and demonstrate "aryan" superiority.>>64448024>racked up impressive numbersThey weren't really that impressive desu. The German "super aces" didn't have victory-per-sortie numbers much been gger than the best Western Allied pilots. They just had air strips close to the front, so they could fly multiple sorties per day. It's notable that all of the Eastern Front super aces performed much worse if they were transferred to the Western Front. Hell, the first time Erich Hartmann fought the Americans, he was shot down.
>>64442843Remember the last living civil war vet was able to get his picture taken with one of the first super sonic fighters
I find it supremely pathetic how Americans shit on "weheraboo" because this jet plane is less reliable Nigger 90% of Germany was carpet bombed at this stage and fuel was a rare resource
>>64450516maybe you'll like the alternate timeline where they have jets earlier and so run out of fuel even faster.
>>64450516Americans aside I think they did a mistake when they "banned" centrifugal compressors for their small engines (that saw service), the use of axial was completely unjustified for anything below 20kN because centrifugal are still small enough. That aside, their hot section was better than English jets IMO, as wartime design and general design, the BMW 003 was comically advanced for its time and was a decent template for France, that used vastly improved BMW designs until the 1970s.>Centrifugal weren't harder to manufacture, they allowed better RPM-Throttle response, incredible forgiving against object ingestion and inlet airflow distortion, even more efficient than early axial (that means considerably lower turbine temperature)>https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/GT/proceedings/GT1996/78736/V002T02A012/243813>10.2514/8.4171
>>64450516That's like speculating on what would've been produced if US had ramped up military spending at the same time as Europe.
>>64450516Even in the design and test phase, they were happy with a consistent 100 hr engine life, before the more severe resource deficits.
>>64450710A contemporary piston engine would last less than 10 hours with WEP, and for Germans the practical engine life of a BMW801 was limited to ~50 hours before overhaul because the late war missions were abusive for those engines. The Jumo 004 was far more appropriate for a reconnaissance plane than a fighter, throttle changes affected the turbine life a lot.
>>64450668Imagine what could've happened with just one more year.
>>64442701Nippon turbojet folded 1000 times
>>64442701if the P-80 had swept wings, this wouldn't be a question.
>>64447999It's actually quite interesting that German super-aces actually didn't score kills any faster per mission than top-ranking Allied aces. IIRC, Hartmann got a kill once every four missions on average. The difference was that a German pilot on the Eastern front often went on multiple missions a day and spent much more of the flight in combat, while most Allied pilots likely flew only one mission a day max, with lengthy transit periods included
>>64447999As we know, the Germans were always very honest with their propaganda.
>>64450574>BMW 003 was comically advanced for its timeIt was garbage, and a dead end technically. Frenchies were known to use shitty German tech like Panther tanks too
>>64451006More than the soviets or the british.
>>64451936No.
>>6445100690% of his kills were against russhits who didn't know how to fly so it's probably real.
>>64444209NTA, but I think that he's referring to the K-14 ("the acemaker") gunsight. When adjusted correctly, it automatically calculated your aim point while compensating for your speed, range to target, and the target's speed and angle. This was a pretty fancy trick at the time.
>>64451897It was the basis* for the BMW 018 that was continued by France as the ATAR engine and M53 (derived but itself is a complete redesign), the M53 is flying right now in Ukraine. Retard.
When conical scanning was performed by physically rotating the antenna, would it have been possible to maintain lock-on during a fierce dogfight?
>>64452480>It was the basis for this, which was the basis for that, which was the basis fot this, which was the basis for that, which in turn was the basis for this modern thing!!! See!? Everything is copied from the Germans!!!Fuck off retard.
>>64454086>too lazy to read and not being an ignorant>too impulsive to restrain himself
>>64454112Seethe
