>I’m just going to ignore how it wasn’t drop safe so sig did a recall
>this one case where we still don’t know exactly what happened exonerates the pistol

It was a smart call to blame the gun, as they've already been demonstrated to have unreliable safeties. So what Sig did wrong was design a dangerous piece of shit that made the accusation plausible and worthy of investigation. If hed done it with an M4 and blamed the gun, everyone would immediately call bullshit because AR safeties work, but because P320s are known to discharge just from rattling the slide; they opened themselves up to blame.

Many people enter military service with little gun experience and the M9 was a safer platform to give a million crayon eaters because of its true DA/SA operation with the heavier actual double action trigger pull. The p320 has bullshit DAO operation copied straight from glock. It’s supposed to be safer because the halfway cocked striker “doesn’t” have enough energy to set off a primer, but it most certainly does, people have tested it.
Regardless of any issues the p320 may or may not have, spending a shitload of money to reequip a ton of soldiers with a new 3oz lighter pistol in the same caliber was fucking stupid, especially seeing as soldiers don’t use their pistols for anything other than target shooting. That’s our tax dollars they’re wasting, if you’re not mad then you’re a retard.

>>64444413
>US military tests gun, determines it's good
>FBI investigates gun, can't force it to malfunction unless they shave down or straight up remove parts

It's literally all hot air. Remember when people thought Glocks were ticking time bombs? That's because they were more popular at the time and there was more potential for mistakes to blame on the manufacturer.

>>64444429
They fixed that a while ago.

>>64444470
>military reports slides are cracking on M9s
>these were on range guns with +20k round counts
>okay, maybe it’s a wearing issue
>Beretta implements a safety upgrade
>turns out it was actually caused by a Winchester fuck up where they loaded up 9mm with near proof load pressures
>these slides cracked only after firing thousands and thousands of proof load bullets
>but we need to replace this pistol with a new pistol in the same caliber because….
>change is inherently good
What ever happened to the times when a weapon being adopted was super rare and most submitted designs were rejected? Seems that the military is just adopting whatever gets laid down in front of them now for the fuck of it.

>>64444492
>it’s fine to neglect the pistol being pushed out and fucking somehow being adopted with the most basic of glaring safety issues
>how is drop testing not the first thing you do when putting a pistol through trials?
Don’t let your love for a company blind you, Anon. And I hate to break it to you, but Sig doesn’t know you and doesn’t give a shit about you.

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>>64444413
Mr Cohen, pls leave.

>>64444470
>Regardless of any issues the p320 may or may not have, spending a shitload of money to reequip a ton of soldiers with a new 3oz lighter pistol in the same caliber was fucking stupid, especially seeing as soldiers don’t use their pistols for anything other than target shooting
Service weapons eventually get worn out, and for something as relatively minor in numbers as a pistol (I think it's less than half a million they're buying to equip all the branches) it's a lot more economical to just buy a big batch of something new off the shelf to replace everything than it would be with something more commonly issued, like rifles. They would have been spending that exact same shitload of money to reequip those soldiers with the same pistols, it's mostly just a matter of the choice of replacement being shit.

>>64444413
Fuck ya
mudda

>>64444444

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>>64444413
>Very popular, common gun
>Not drop safe
>Goes off on its own
>Can go off without the trigger being pulled (SIG lies about this)
>Is a dogshit unsafe design in general
>Gets deservedly shat on

>>64444645
It is drop safe, and there is no confirmed instances of the firearm discharging without first tampering with the trigger. It's been investigated quite a bit, so there would be hard evidence by now.

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>>64444648
>It is drop safe
If you had yours fixed, yes. Have the original example of very poor SIG quality? It ain't. It's a perfect example of SIG testing and quality being extremely questionable.
>no confirmed instances
Confirmed by who, exactly?
>without first tampering with the trigger.
The SIG P320 can factually be fired without the trigger being actuated. SIG willingly and knowingly lies about this.
The sear does not require the trigger to be depressed for it to be actuated and for the striker to be released.
The FBI itself says:
>testing did indicate with movements representing those common to a law enforcement officer it is possible to render the Striker Safety Lock inoperable and ineffective at preventing the striker from impacting a chambered round if complete sear engagement is lost. It is important to note that the Striker Safety Lock, by design, is the last safety in line to prevent an unintended discharge as it is in place to protect against a secondary sear notch override.

The P320 is an unsafe design, which is why a former SIG engineer has applied for a patent for fixing the issue:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20250164203A1/en?oq=20250164203
why SIG has lost multiple court cases identifying the weapon as unsafe:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/jury-finds-sig-p320-defectively-225100468.html?_guc_consent_skip=1761479847
and why federal agencies are banning its use.

Anyone who trusts either the P320 or SIG at this point with their life is a fool.

>>64444676
>SIG has lost multiple court cases identifying the weapon as unsafe

And has won every appeal based on the fact that no lab has ever been able to recreate the same scenario.

>>64444500
gotta burn that budget money so that next legislative year you can ask for more budget money. Do that for 70 years straight while being the richest country in the world and that's how you get a trillion dollars for a budget.

>>64444648
>post video where the gun visibly goes off without touching the trigger
>it is of the drop safe, sar
You're a fucking paid-for paki

>>64444413
love that indian metallurgy
sig needs to be expelled from military contracts altogether

why is the US military using a company that farms its work out to a country that is literally the "I" in "BRICS"?
they're literally economic adversaries why are we giving them military contracts?

>>64444413
The mechanisms failed, OP. There was that whole case outlining all the SIG failures. So no, it wasn't human error. Nice bait thread though.

>>64445330
I was alive in the early 90s when people claimed this was happening with their Glocks, many with eye witness testimony and some video evidence. Personally, until the failstate is proven, I'm always going to pin it on operator error in some fashion.

>>64444413
I saw that my closest bass pro shop had a whole display case of used ones for 500 bucks with red dots lol.
If you want a range beater its perfect just keep it aimed down range. I wouldnt carry one loaded based on all the bullshit.

fuck ya
mudda

>>64445999
That's almost as low as used glonks

Ok, sigger.

>>64444492
>Remember when people thought Glocks were ticking time bombs?
Yeah when people used to revolvers and DA/SA triggers got issued their first striker fired pistol, and before kydex holsters became popular.
Notice how there was no Waltherleg, HKleg, Steyrleg, etc when they developed and released their striker fired pistols? Why did this issue return with SIG specifically?

>>64445850
>some video evidence
In the 1990s? Video quality had to be absolute shit.

>>64446264
Absolutely was

>>64444413
The problem is that because of the nature of firearms, once they get a reputation for being unsafe, there isn't much you can do to regain consumer confidence. SIG has also fought this in court in the most jew way possible, so there's that.

>>64444470
Modern guns with sights and tighter groups are bound to see more kills statistically.
Thats if they can procure new holsters that'll fit them

>>64444470
>p320 has bullshit DAO operation copied straight from glock
The sig has a fully tensioned sticker. The Glock has a partially tensioned striker.

>>64444645
other than the first guy who is putting it into a holster.... How is anyone owning these guns after this super cut

>>64444492
They literally oiled hands to skip the durability tests

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>>64444413

>>64444413
The p320 is a dumpster fire and SIG should take accountability, fix the damn things, and have some better qc; or just get rid of it and go with the p365

>>64446767
Not being lab reproducible under the same conditions is a huge sticking point for me. It fucking smells fishy and it's easier for me to believe people are making shit up about how good their carry practices are than it is that every gun has a unique malfunction that the labs cannot figure out. Before you post that Wyoming faggot, his shit has been debunked by literally everyone who understands striker fired guns, even people who hate the 320

>>64444413
>import Indian Hindu rape rats
>civilization gets destroyed by them
>see this pattern repeat for thousands of years and in every country
>still your jewish CEO insists his feral pet rape rats get the chance to migrate to a white country on H-1B....predictable results
>SIG SAAR

>>64444557
I think new Berettas would have saved a bit of money just on magazines and holsters

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Anyone have that photo of the robbed gun store that still had all their SIG's untouched behind the glass? I forgot to save it.

>>64446605
>The problem is that because of the nature of firearms, once they get a reputation for being unsafe
...Unless your Ruger

>>64448968
Or Glock. Glock literally went from getting memed on for exploding more than any other modern handgun to "peak safety" despite changing nothing.

>>64444492
>US military tests gun, determines it's good
This never happened with the Sig P320 thoughbeit. They tested it, found it had shit reliability compared to a glock 17 and adopted it anyway because Jeet labor is cheaper than austrian labor.

>>64448969
That's because Glocks have always been safe guns, forced memes like glockleg notwithstanding. Sigs were given the benefit of the doubt because Glock paved the way and showed polymer striker handguns could be completely safe and reliable, so people gave Sig more slack than they did for Glock back in the day. When the P320 was proven to be going off from getting twisted or leaned on, Siggers still tried to make it out to be a failure of Glock because they're polymer too so why does their gun get to have a good reputation but ours doesn't?? :((

>>64448969
Glock is probably responsible for more NDs than any other firearm simply because of its market saturation and the fact that it has no manual safety that can completely disable the trigger like a 1911. Every time little Timmy shoots himself by playing with his daddy's gun, nine times out of ten it was a Glock.

>>64448968
Which ruger? The LCPs they fixed forever ago and haven't ADd since? Not really the same thing
>>64448969
The Glock KB thing was just the early .40s and likely were caused by bubbas pissing hot reloads. Glock did actually make notable design changes increasing the chamber support on .40 models considerably. Similar to ruger the issues stopped outside of the occasional idiot blowing a squib or loading up some proof loads they don't kb anymore.

Meanwhile Sig has never admitted to or addressed the issues causing their guns to AD.

>>64444557
>Beretta's opening offer was an updated gun at a lower unit cost than they charged in the 80's
>No need for retraining troops, armorer's, new armory redesign, change existing storage and transport, infinite etc.s
>Could have just replaced the truly clapped out pistols that had happily hammered tent pegs and been used as one hitters for almost 40 years
>Rejected categorically for uh... Reasons
>Spend more money upfront and shitload more money downstream on new "modern platform"
>Troops start Glock legging themselves.jpg

The only bigger possible fuckup would have been if Glock had been awarded the contract then cucked to the threat of lawsuits and retired the chosen model. Because that's really fucking over PDs at the moment.

>>64444413
This problem would be solved within a month if SIG's C-suite had to carry P320s.

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>sig is... LE BAD!
>sig is... LE GOOD!
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't fucking matter.
>b-but the M9 was perfectly fin-
old and beat to shit. They're worn out and blown out like a 45 year old whore. They needed to be replaced. Did you really expect Big Army not to buy the cheapest shit out there?
>the P320 is safe and not defect-
Doesn't matter. Literally every production gun ever made has lemons. If you make 10,000 of them, I guarantee you five of them will be piece of shit deathtraps. Sig has made 4 million, so yes, there are shitty ones out there that can kill you. Sig's response to the problem was tone deaf and incredibly stupid. They simply denied that there ever was an issue and then started fighting people in court. That is not good customer service. That is customer disservice. You cannot stay in business and the good graces of the consumer by looking the customer in the eye, shitting in their mouth and calling them a liar, especially when you're making guns. It is 2025 and that doesn't work anymore. Now everyone knows the Sig as the gun that goes off randomly, regardless of the truth. Sig isn't making garden hoses or toasters, when a gun is defective, people get hurt.
>n-no the P320 is shitty and has parts made in Indi-
Doesn't matter. Everyone cheaps out nowadays because American manufacturing was sold down the river 50 years ago by your parents and grandparents. Everything is made as cheaply as possible. Unless your gun is ancient, ie, a blown out whore, it is made cheaply.
There are probably over a million people who still want a P320. And they'll get one dirt cheap because a ton of people are panicking and trying to get rid of theirs.
>the accident with the airman wasn't an accident, it was murd-
yeah well if I was an airfag I'd probably wanna kill my boss too.
TLDR bitching about it makes zero difference, your mind was already made up by the time you entered this thread, and you have zero influence over what happens going forward.

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>>64449809
>They needed to be replaced. Did you really expect Big Army not to buy the cheapest shit out there?
Behold, a cheap pistol (that doesn't shoot your dick off when you holster it).

>>64449809
>Sig has made 4 million, so yes, there are shitty ones out there that can kill you.
And Siggers managed to make them ALL DANGEROUS because the very core of the design itself is flawed and the only logical solution is to send them to the scrap yard to be melted down and made into something actually useful like new Toyota engines or whatever.

>>64445217
>no lab has ever been able to recreate the same scenario
No. They've somehow gotten all 3rd party expert testimonies and investigations dismissed by demanding that they present impossible qualifications.
And when they've failed to do so, they've settled.

The most amazing thing about SIG is their legal team.
They even, somehow, got away with BLATANTLY stealing Steyr's patents and claiming them as their own when Steyr sued them for infringing on Steyr's patent for the contained and serialized removable fire-control unit.

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>>64445217
>based on the fact that no lab has ever been able to recreate the same scenario.
I didn't think they had any more bribe money left honestly. How deep is Sig's pockets from the era when people still kinda respected them? Also when will they finally run out now that military and police contracts are drying up?

>>64449985
What did you expect for a case where an American company goes against a foreign competitors in an American court?

>>64444413
you are a no good SIGGER

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/airman-at-center-of-m18-controversy-found-dead-44823613
Suspect just died

>>64449985
They were dismissed because they couldn't do it. Literally nobody has been able to do it. The burden of proof to prove a defective design is to be able to make it happen again in the same conditions where the incident occurred. It's like the most basic, common sense level of proof.
>>64450060
Low IQ post. Are you sure you aren't the shill?

>>64444413
Military just checked all of theirs. 1 in 41 was bad. Ludicrous that anyone would buy one.

>>64451457
Misinfo. If you're talking about the Air Force inventory, no guns were found that were producing or could produce malfunctions. Cleared literally every single gun in no uncertain terms. What they did do was note that some were in need of service, pulled them, repaired them (because the wear was clear and obvious unlike the purported discharges), then updated their service and maintenance schedule to prevent it in the future. The military does this literally all the time with many different pieces of equipment.

>>64449281
Glock KBs still happen. They happen in 9s too but 10 and .40 are more prone to it because of the higher pressure. The reason they happen is because of the chamber support is still incredibly insufficient. I've heard rumors that Glock armorer courses even tell people that this is a safety feature when a properly hardened, full support chamber is much safer as it directs gases out the front of the barrel instead of into your hand. That is not to say that they are not still mostly safe pistols, but it is nowhere near a solved issue. Seeing as the v-series will have compatible barrels, it's likely not solved even now.

>>64444413
Do the p365 and the .45 p320 have the same design flaws?

>>64451523
The 365 has a weak trigger return spring but aftermarket ones cost less than 20 bucks and don't break. Nobody knows what the design flaw is, if any, but the .45s work basically the same. The God's honest truth is you're probably more likely to have a sudden stroke than have one of these randomly discharge. The rate of incident to amount of firearms in circulation is stupendously low, and that's if we assume the discharges really are the gun actually going off without some kind of user induced error.

>>64444413
I agree, the multi-billion dollar corporation certainly did nothing wrong.
They will surely appreciate your advocacy.

And I hope you appendix carry their product.

>>64444492
>They fixed that a while ago.
It’s an integral design flaw, if they “fix” it then it’ll be the M17A1. But they didn’t so it’s not and is still trash

>>64452295
I do because I'm not scared lightning will strike me either

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>>64444413
>design a thing used by humans
>be surprised when the humans using it notice you haven't taken into account common mistakes humans make
Okay clanker. You design it, so either do better or go sell your guns to robots, if you can't make 'em for fucking people.

>>64451388
>suspect
they didn't release the identity of the recent dead guy yet so you're just making shit up

>>64451538
The amount of guns in circulation means nothing if they're sitting in closets unloaded.

>>64452464
It's a good thing that's just your creative writing

>>64444413
Yeah I'm just not gonna buy a gun made from MIMdia parts lmao. Maybe if they hit sub $200 used I'd grab one to gift to an enemy.

>>64444676
> SIG has lost multiple court cases identifying the weapon as unsafe:
Court cases don’t mean shit. See also: the J&J talcum powder.

>>64444676
This is the case where the dude carried a non-thumb safety 320 mexican style. The jury was also only allowed to give a verdict by selecting from pre-written multiple choice answers concerning each facet of the case. The "defect" they cited was the lack of a manual safety, and the officer mexican carrying without one is why he assumed the risk for that. But you knew that you shitter

>>64452443
stupid nigger
https://www.warren.af.mil/News/Releases/Article/4325804/90th-missile-wing-updates-on-on-base-fatality-and-related-investigations/

>>64444413
>Humans make mistakes
>ND
Mechanical failures are decidedly not a human failure, unless you attribute it to the jeets who assembled these. None of this shit matters anyway because I practice gun physiognomy, it's butt fuckin ugly with a suboptimal grip angle and bore axis and a striker assembly designed by someone who belongs in an asylum. I hated the gun even before the safety issues became apparent, which is to say, not very long.

>>64452529
Talc deposits are frequently contaminated with asbestos, are you suggesting talcum powder is perfectly safe and never hurt anyone with with extra mineral fibers in its history?