How do night operations work when drones exist?Thermals make noticing drones harder and the risk of death or casualties becomes much greater.I can't imagine any massive infantry night assault happening outside of a metro area when drones exist.
>>64458383Night ops only works against goatfuckers that don't have nods.
>>64458383we don't know, because nobody rich has had a war with a huge proliferation of drones. however, drones are hot as fuck on thermals, so if you have thermals as default for your troops, you'll see them.
>nodrones thinks thermal optics drones can just loiter for hours
>>64458450Apparently drones are unstoppable superweapons that have made absolutely all other aspects of war obsolete, and it’s all RC, all the time, until the end of time from now on.
>>64458450>shiiiiiiiiiiiit
Not in 3rd world countries.
>>64458480>shiiiiiiiiiiiiit
>>64458515damn second post in and you have to resort to mars rovers?
>>64458450Response? >>64458499 >>64458515
>>64458480Not forever, no. But they ARE the meta now. This is normal. At one time, chariots were the meta, then cavalry, then tanks, and now drones. One day something else will replace it but until that day comes, you deal with it. Seething is as useful as cavalry charges against tanks.
>>64458946>the metaThey are a tool. A good tool, but one of many, and not the only deciding factor. People on here act like a fucking RC copter with a bomb strapped to it makes everything obsolete, and that’s just not the case.
everyone in deployable units has thermal fused nods, that's still better than everyone else's standard issue so we should still do all of our major operations at night
>>64458967>t. polish cavalry officer in 1939you will die before you even see the front line
>>64458967This. I hate the retarded maximalist attitude towards drones. They are certainly a very effective tool that any military should invest in but they aren’t gonna change warfare, just augment it, same as air power and tanks did
>>64458383>Thermals make noticing drones harder and the risk of death or casualties becomes much greater.If you mean quadcopters then they are highly visible on thermal, they're small but the motors and ESCs get extremely hot and are air cooled.They'll look like little comets, bright points trailing a wake of hot airIf you mean MQ-9s etc then sure, sucks to be infantry.
>>64460087>I hate the retarded maximalist attitude towards dronesIt's half mockery, taking someone's point /in extremis/ so as to ridicule something you couldn't otherwise.The other half is bait to get their stupid thread posted in.
>>64458946There is already anti-drone tech that can neutralize the threat. It's just not something that you would want to advertise the capability of being able to do.
>>64458399These days even the goatfuckers have nods so night operations are just day operations with worse graphics. Better to use the night for sleeping.
>>64460087air power did change warfare though
>>64458383The value of night ops is that most people are asleep or at the very least, guards are fewer and/or less alert so you can catch them by surprise.Drones doesn't really negate that.
>>64464291Drones can work as guards. Observing vast spaces fromhigh vantage point. An don their thernals you woun be very visible.It's not just drones but disappearance of nugh visisn asymmetry 30 years ago thermals were magic for 3rd, not only they didn't have them , they even didn't knew go fo they work. Today 3rd wolders can buy plenty thernals from China. Surely they don't have that many as you but it takes only one to see you. It's not like in the past when other side had none
>>64458383>How do night operations work when drones exist?They don't, at best you do admin movements by night.>>64458450>thermal optics drones can just loiter for hoursThey actually can. You can even have 24\7 coverage with a couple of Mavics, just launch the second one when the first one's battery gets low, rinse&repeat.>>64458480Yeah, actually. Unless&until you figure out counter-drone TTPs as a unit, you are useless.>>64460059lol no. Having the fanciest goggles does nothing to change the fact that OPFOR can and will detect you and target you at the outer edge of its effective range. The entire point of night operations is moot.>>64460087>they aren’t gonna change warfareThey already did, just as tanks and air power did in their own time.
>>64464489>They actually can. You can even have 24\7 coverage with a couple of Mavics, just launch the second one when the first one's battery gets low, rinse&repeat.does that happen tho? the mavic 3 enterprise has a fly time of about half an hour meaning it has enough battery to patrol your site for about 20 minutes before it has to fly back. thats almost 500 sorties a day and DJI batteries only last about 400 uses so you're burning up about 1 battery a day.so no, outside of white people armies this will not be happening.
>>64464496Whats stoping me from having the drone stand on a tree or rooftop to enchance battery Life?
>>64464531The same thing stopping you from having more than one drone, I guess.
>>64464496>so you're burning up about 1 battery a day.Oh woes!This is like $150! (When single AT4 costs $3000 and 155mm $4000).
>>64458450Actual drones, not glorified tarted up consumer quadcopters, have long loitering times and range, and cooled thermal imaging sensors that can operate nearly indefinitely.
>>64458383Thirdie militaries don't train for it and aren't competent enough to do mass maneuver under nods. The few units that are, sof / airborne, aren't in enough quantity to push an assault that'll be met by mass drones and artillery just like the daytime anyway.
>>64464496All the time, actually. It's called "spinning the carousel" and, depending on the number of drone teams you have and how much of your drones' cargo capacity you spend on an extended battery, a unit can have miles and miles of frontline under direct observation around the clock, denying the enemy any element of surprise. But then ECM come into play...
>>64458450That's exactly what happens: as soon as the battery dies, the patrolling FPV gets ditched and a new one arrives. Every 10 minutes or so.Can you imagine this GAYRAPEAN without shells?
>>64458383i hope the usa goes to war in iran and gets destroyed
>>64458515>make a gun>call it a sawdo burgers really?
>>64464489>lol no. Having the fanciest goggles does nothing to change the fact that OPFOR can and will detect you and target you at the outer edge of its effective range. The entire point of night operations is moot.in the day you can both see the same with your eyeballs, but at night the side with better nods can see better. Also we are very good at night fighting because we constantly train it, but a lot of armies struggle keeping their guys awake at night. In ww2 no one seriously did night operations because everyone just goes to sleep
>>64464883>the side with better nods can see betterwhich is irrelevant because I don't need to "see you better" to shell your whole grid square, I only need to have a reasonable certainty that someone is vaguely in that direction, something that a cheap thermal camera can reliably provide.>a lot of armies struggle keeping their guys awake at nightTypical burger vanity. Armies that can't afford a hundred grand per soldier in kit still can train their soldiers to a serious level of awareness and discipline. Also, cheap automation solves this.
>>64464852
>>64464465this has to be bait third worlders wouldn’t post here… right?
>>64464945>shell your whole grid square>unmasking brigade artillery to go after a squad+ element Thirdies really don't 'get' conventional peer war. This is like making your queen vulnerable to take a pawn. The static low-end nature of the Slavic slapfight has given poors and browns confirmation bias that they don't need to think about war above the squad level.
>>64460087>they aren't gonna change warfare, just augment it, same as air power
>>64464987I would love to see Chyna attempt this with their little alibaba drones that will revolutionise war™
>>64458450Small electric VTOL fixed wings with a 2 foot to 3 foot wingspan typically do loiter for about 1.5 to 4 hours. Quantum Systems, Ebee, Dragonfly, Edge 130 type drones. These aren't what an individual infantryman would use, they're what the company HQ uses to spot and call in mortars.
>>64464999They would volley fire ballistic missiles into the ships and airbases those planes were based at. The Gulf War was a stomp because it was precision combat vs dumb tank rush combat; now everyone has precision gear, even Russian mobiks flying fiber optic FPVs.
>>64458383It's mostly just the proliferation of thermals. This was already starting to become a problem in the Iraq War with Sony nightshot cameras
>>64464985I can shell your "squad+ element" with a couple of AGS-30s in the bush for essentially the same effect without unmasking anything at all. Proportionally larger elements would necessarily invite proportionally larger shellings at proportionally longer detection distances.Point is, ubiquitous (aerial) thermal destroys the element of surprise which is the entire reason for night ops. Night ops as a whole may not be completely dead yet, but the kind of "night ops" burgers were enjoying for the last 30 years - career specops kicking down mud hut doors and slaughtering hapless goatfuckers wholesale - are a thing of the past. You can choose to keep masturbating to the memories of them, or to get with the times.
>>64465001At that size you start getting into hybrid territory, which pushes the loiter time up to around 10 hours.
>>64465031>moving the goal posts this hard
>>64465031>career specops kicking down mud hut doors and slaughtering hapless goatfuckers wholesaleEven then a bunch of them were still getting shot
>>64464945it's an advantage to see better than your enemy, nothing you can say will change that>>64464945>Typical burger vanity. Armies that can't afford a hundred grand per soldier in kit still can train their soldiers to a serious level of awareness and discipline. They can, but often don't because they have completely different incentives and culture
>>64465031There is a reason the DO is always at night at every rotational training event, which are all near peer or hybrid based scenarios not goat fuckers. And when we had thermal nods and opfor didn't we had an advantage. everyone in this thread already knows that ISR exists. The opfor at JRTC and NTC have ISR btw. they actually have more situational awareness tech than the average rotating unit does, or any of our enemies actually useGermonimo uses ATAC with drones everywhere and digital fire coordination of fire support.
>>64465245You can't expect fudds & thirdies to pit their beating-the-government/whites fantasies against modern troops. They're always fighting mental strawmen from 25 years ago. It's why they love talking about Russia & get insecure about China: Russia plays to their fantasies while China visibly advanced into modernity.
>>64458383Air support. Even a basic-ass armed trainer can handle 99% of all drones on the field today.
>>64465031The element of surprise was never about 'we never noticed your guys walking in the dark'element of surprise is about massing formations in the same space at the same time from multiple different avenues of approach. You might see a bunch of movement of units, but you don't realize what the target is until you realize half of them were decoys going the wrong way, and the other half all converged on one part of the front line at the same time.Preparatory fires are a thing, this isn't metal gear solid
