/tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40How would a modern MBT like the Abrams or Leopard 2 hold up against the Leman Russ tank?Based on the Lexicanum article it sounds like it would compare very well, except in terms or armor and weakspots like the sponsons.https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Leman_Russ_Battle_Tank
>>64466323The Russ has comparable armament to the Abrams and is worse at just about everything else.However, the big caveat with anything 40k is that it always DEPENDS.depending on the forge world of origin, that leman Russ could be equipped with all sorts of stuff like advanced alloys in it's armour and all kinds of sensors. Or it could be a stripped down shit box made to be as cheap as possible.
>>64466363There's one important thing the Abrams doesn't have: the Omnissiah's blessing. Not even a drop of scented oil.
>>64466323You'll understand 40k a lot better if you realize it's a wargame written by 1980s nerds about a future where ignorance is the norm and technological progress is a long dead myth. They took their present-day and set it as the tactical cap.1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.1980s tactics is the cutting edge elites like Space Marines and Tau.1920s is the in-setting incompetent and low tech forces like Kriegers.
>>64466482>1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.Mass infantry with no fear of artillery or air attack and use a static line of tanks as fire support? Then die when a 9ft tall knight charges you with a chainsaw?
TygerThe Tyger tank was first seen in the so-called “Two World War”. This conflict seems to have been notable for only featuring two planets – Terra and Venus – making it a relatively small skirmish. Like the MULE used by the Adeptus Mechanicus in days of yore, the Tyger is probably named after an animal of Old Earth, in this case, large, nine-legged insectoids from the Yndonesian Bloc, bred as beasts of war. One early tank commander, Wilhelm Swordsworth, allegedly wrote war poetry about the prowess of this vehicle, but alas only fragments remain. The Tyger was apparently a large battle tank for its time, but is several measures smaller than a Baneblade, indicating the primitive nature of early Terran technology.T54While we do not know much about the T54 tank (certain records have been suppressed by the Fabricator-General for unknown reasons), we know that it was relatively rare, with only around 100,000 units manufactured. Judging by the small size of the main armament, Fabricator-adepts believe that this vehicle probably used primitive energy-projection technology akin to the lascannon, designed to support larger vehicles.As for what T54 stands for, the answer is obvious! T54 was clearly an adept of the Mechanicum in the early days of Mars, and discovered the STC for this vehicle, much as Arkhan Land (binharic praise upon his name) discovered the STCs for the Land Raider and Land Speeder. ShermanWhile the Sherman superficially resembles Imperial designs, it has several disadvantages compared to the Leman Russ. Sloped plating is likely to deflect small arms munitions into nearby soldiers while proving ineffective at dispersing las-fire. Attacking the enemy with a cavalry sabre from the turret hatch would be all but impossible due to its awkward position, even if the crew drove the officer very close. Similarly, field simulations suggest that the treads would quickly become clogged after running over even a smallish squad of Aeldari Guardians.
>>64466323Do not pay the slightest bit of attention to the official statistics of 40k vehicles. 40k is emphatically NOT designed by mechanical engineers and the artists who make the vehicles have no idea about realistic function. Most of the classic designs are derived from the WW2 Airfix sets that the first wave of sculptors and gane designers in the 80s grew up with when they were kids in the 60s. The text you see on data sheets has absolutely zero bearing on the vehicles' actual function as described. For instance, a Warlord Titan is "officially" 30m/100' high, which makes it about the same size as the Statue of Liberty minus plinth. And yeah, that's big and all, but not the single-handedly city-smashing big that Titans are routinely shown stamping on skyscrapers in the fluff and artwork.Rule of cool prevails over all. 40k vehicles have aesthetics, not functionality. I love the Leman Russ - its boxy shape exudes doughty stolidness, it has atmosphere - but it wouldn't last ten seconds on an actual battlefield.
>>64466323You have two threads for this already.
God, I want a lasgun. High caliber damage with no recoil, no drop, and essentially instantaneous travel time. Magazines you can reload by leaving out in the sun for a while. Maintenance? It’ll probably be fine for the next ten generations after I’m dust without having so much as a cleaning.
>>64466518Kek
>>64466518lmao
>>64466566IIRC a lot of Lasgun models have "recoil", caused by the air in the "muzzle" getting vapourised with each shot, but it's very minimal. This is seen as actually a good thing by a lot of Guardsmen, because it's not storng enough to matter to the shooters aim but does provide them feedback that the weapon is firing.You do need to clean that shit, though. Which tbf is supposed to be completely trivial.
>>64466518
>>64466630True. Don’t want anything accumulating on the lens.
>>64466630I was exaggerating slightly, but I know they are insanely reliable. Bolters may be the poster gun of the 40k universe, but lasguns…those things would be a small arms revolution if introduced today. A logistician’s wet dream come true.
the funniest piece of warhammer "lore" is the page that says bolters fire "depleted deuterium" projectiles, which physically can't exist and the closest thing to it would just be electrons.
>>64467019lol, isn’t that a hydrogen isotope?
>>64467034it's "depleted" deuterium, so it's literally just hydrogen. They probably tried making some far-future analogue to depleted uranium and they grabbed the first word that sounded cool.
>>64467053They should have just gone with depleted uranium. Shooting radioactive material everywhere seems totally on point for the setting.
>>64467059That's the Ad Mech's thing.
>>64467019>that picIt's simpler than that, anon. The Leman Russ is the tank from Indiana Jones 3.
>>64466323>/tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40yeahanyway, here's an irl chaos tainted tank. I thought you'd like it.
>>64466323>>>riveted armor I don't care what bullshitium your tank is made out of, this thing is getting raped by any sort of modern AT weapon, let alone anything from the last 50 years. Hose it down with enough auto cannon or heavy MG fire, and the back of those rivets will pop off inside the tank and pepper the crew inside. That being said 40k Darktide and Space Marine 2 are fun games, too bad the miniatures cost an arm and a leg.
>>64467126They come in package boxes now (combat patrol and battle force)that are cheaper than buying the models separately.
>>64467126welds aren't grim dark enough for the 41st millenium. even parts that clearly would be castings have random rivets on them.
>>64466323Poorly. Though the Leman Russ has comparable weapons and frontal armor to the Abrams, it was designed as an infantry support weapon more akin to the Booker and its sensors aren't up to the task of getting the important first strike against a true MBT. For that, you want something like the Dorn or Macharius which are meant for tank hunting.
While the hammerhead tank doesn't look like it has the best design armor-wise, I do like the railgun.
>>64466518Canon btwhttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/T54
>>64467126>>64467217Molecular bonding studs, trust ze plan.
>>64466323If you're a killjoy? Any modern MBT crushes the Leman Russ because SF writers cannot into numbers. Outranged, outgunned, and outarmouredIf you're more "realistic"? The Leman Russ obliterates anything modern thanks to 20,000 years of technological development giving it freakishly strong hyperalloy armour and armour-deletium guns, and that's without getting into BS like lascannons or plasma guns. Of course, in actual battlefield role, the Leman is more like a close infantry support vehicle or mobile bunker than a proper MBT, so the comparison is hardly fair in the first place. It's built to give an infantry platoon an armoured source of heavy firepower that they can rely on for anything their own weapons won't handle, not to kill enemy tanks and create local superiority in armoured strength
>>64466518The blurb on the Sherman was a foreshadowing of the Dorn.
>>64466323It would BUTCHER Leman Russ's by the company. A Russ is slower, less armored, has a profile of a fucking house, and it's main gun is a WW2 120mm APHE (APFSDS is literally magic made from a single forge world) and the Leman Russ uses WET FUCKING STORAGE for the ammo because blow out panels are somehow defeatist and piss off the machine spirit at the same time.
>>64467217>heavy bolter on the sponsor have magazine outside, meaning that wit it's RoF someone need to either stand or leave the tank to reload them 2x>flame turret have promethium pipe going outside behind despite promethium tanks being usually stored inside or below the turretI know it's sci-fi and rule of cool and most of the time it's fine but cmon with this here
>>64467429It's a cast and riveted T55 anon. Of course it would get blown up by archeaotech M1s. The Imperium would send 30 Russes for every M1 in hordes like Russia invading Ukraine, complete with bad logistics, until the tidal wave of bodies overruns this peculiarly advanced frontier world.
>>64468336>>64467476>>64467429it's not just APFSDS, regular HEAT is also incredibly powerful and rare by imperial standards, and it also absolutely rapes their tanks on the tabletop. A single somewhat lucky hit from this gun can blow up a Leman Russ, two or three nearly guarantee it
>>64468555an Abrams would be an invulnerable murder machine, popping turrets left and right and headshotting Warlord Titans from beyond way beyond their targetting range
>>64467034Deuterium is a hydrogen isotope, with one neutron on top of it's proton. It's still part of a hudrogen gas or water molecule, nothing changes chemically but it's useful in some nuclear applications as heavy water. Depleted Uranium is non-radioactive Uranium that is used in armor piercing rounds because of it's high density.Someone at GW read all this somewhere, mixed it all up and couldn't be bothered to go look it up so now it's canon fancy sounding nonsense.
>>64466499Exactly. Just like the Battle of the Bulge.
>>64466518Good stuff
>>64468555it's interesting that most real tanks with multiple guns put the higher velocity anti tank one in the turret and left the big he gun in the hull, but the leman russ puts the gun without ap shells in the turret and leaves the fucking laser cannon in the hull.
>>64467059Already a thing. Besides, the SM used to have Volkite weapons and formed destroyer squads to really kill stuff
>>64466749 bolters are based on tech from the 1960’s. Not even joking they are basically enlarged Gyrojet rounds
>>64466630Not all lasguns but some certain patterns of them also have deliberate recoil engineered into the design. They have a "tumbler" installed in the stock which jolts the lasgun to introduce a spread pattern when a guardsman is firing multiple shots, considered more useful for winning the firefight in squad combat.
>>64470047Ah yes, the famous archaeotech vibrating barrels of ancient Russia.
>>64468903You and everyone's mother has been making this point for 8 years
>>64466323It is literally just a Mk IV tank mixed with a centurion turret and a chuchhill hull gun.
>>64467275Flying Hovertank with a high mounted cannon.Are the drones detachable? Even if not, it is an attack helicopter. Tau tech of using loyal wingman drones and spotting lasers just werks. Plus they have kroot meatbags for doing what drones can't.
>>644672752142 best hover tank
>>64470440>Are the drones detachable?Yes. They can target independently even when attached, but can also detach and move on their own as well. And the drones are semi-autonomous as well, they obey commands but they can seek out, accurately identify, and destroy enemy targets without needing to be directly controlled. The Tau are quite fond of spamming them on their vehicles.
>>64470617>tau have advanced technology with actual optics and rangefinders and shit>in most editions they shoot with the same accuracy as a goblin with a gun made out of trash and worse than a conscript being reminded by his co to aim
>>64470660Tbf, a lone Fire Warrior will beat a lone Tempestus Scion in most matchups on the tabletop. Now, it's true that the Tau have kinda lame accuracy on their own (only as much as an average Guardsmen) but you're supposed to be pairing them up with markerlights which gives them a nice accuracy boost. Plus their range is pretty superb too so they'll be firing well before a Guardsmen gets into range to return fire.Tau are all about synergy. If Firewarriors are facing Guardsmen without air support, drone support, pathfinder recon and markerlights, etc. something has gone seriously wrong. They'll still probably win but...something has still gone wrong.
>>64470727it's funny that their advanced targeting technology only has the same effectiveness as a guardsman having a guy on the radio tell him to take aim
>>64466482>written by 1980s nerds about a future where ignorance is the norm and technological progress is a long dead myth.that kind of came later - original 40K was a parody of Warhammer Fantasy (ie, space elves (eldar), space orcs (Orks), space empire (imaginatively called the imperium), space dwarves (squats), etc etc. but it was liberally inspired by (read blatantly stealing) stuff from 2000AD, particularly Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper, and of course, Judge Dredd. Icongraphy of the troopers on bikes or jet-bikes, with armour with Aquila eagles on shoulders, is 100% lifted from Dredd. The "arbites" enforcers in the hive cities, are almost 1:1 copies of the Judges. Rogue Trooper is the archetype on which the Imperial guard troopers were built, and of course, was also heavily influential in the original game's name - "Rogue Trader" And the thing to remember was, original rogue trader isnt a wargame, at least in the sense that modern wargames are. It was expected to be run with a GM/DM running the game for two players. there wasnt any points values for creating armies, armies had almost no specific units - you got dreadnoughts, for instance, that both imperial guard, and marines would use the exact same models with. Same went for jet bikes and land speeders? (I am old, and its been 30+ years since I last played a GW game. I barely remember names.) and then you had space orc, eldar, squat dreadnoughts, which were if I remember, almost identical stat-lines.the stuff that wasn't lifted whole-cloth from 2000AD was pretty much copied from Heinlein (starship troopers), Herbert's "dune" (imperium of man, elite soldiers, the "immaterium" for FTL Travel - chaos wasnt really introduced to the game till the Slaves of Darkness and Lost and Damned books in 1989 and 1990, and those books were designed to be used for both Rogue trader, and Warhammer Fantasy Battlesall the equipment was also lifted from 2000AD. "needle pistols", "jump packs" etc.
>>64470773>Blatantly stealingActually, GW paid 2000AD's artists to illustrate most early 40K work. It isn't stealing when it's done by the same guys.
>>64470757Fair...but they do have nearly the same range as a Space Marine sniper squad. Plus, Firewarriors can get their own markerlights, so they don't even need to rely on another squad for their accuracy boost.
>>64468336To be fair to the Land Raider it's not a MBT, it's a IFV for Space Marines and for a IFV it is very armored and has a metric fuckton of firepower, and the occupants themselves are almost as armored as a vehicle themselves so any penetration will be greatly reduced in effect.
>>64468564>titansNo. Titans would be a B2/B52 SQUADRION tier threat, a Warlord's void shields are legitimately impressive.
>>64466323> /tg/ said /k/ was the place to sperg out over the weapons of Warhammer 40it really isn’t.
>>64467059>>64467080nigga we use DU irlwe have for a while. admech isn’t just radioactive crap its super radioactive crap and guns that give you cancer
>>64470773continued: and the thing with Rogue Trader being a parody of Warhammer Fantasy was, at some points it was even assumed players could be using units in formation, like the Napoleonic war games that had in turn inspired WHFB. They really only settled on individual models in loose formation on round bases for Rogue Trader, and formations of models in tight formation for WHFB around the time rogue trader became a big sales hit in 1988 - before that it really was "whatever you feel like" for both games, and implausible as it might sound now, they originally thought that rogue trader would be a funny little parody game that might sell a few copies, and would be discontinued after a year or two, compared to the big success story, WHFB. >1940s-1950s is the baseline for the competent normal units like Cadians because every wargamer alive in the 1980s knows how to play those.>1980s tactics is the cutting edge elites like Space Marines and Tau.>1920s is the in-setting incompetent and low tech forces like Kriegers.The big problem with this is, Tau and Kriegers didn't exist - and wouldn't do until at least a decade later. the name "cadian" I think was introduced around 5 years after Rogue trader - '93 or '94. As far as I remember the only imperial guard named in the original book were the "necromunda spiders". the idea of there being any sort of 1940-50's, 1980's, and 20's technology or mentality really didn't exist in the original game, and I'm afraid you're conflating elements which arrived in the game years, often decades later.
>>64470985The "Radium" guns are more like polonium or caesium-137 projectiles (which is fucking horrifying) but the writers are fucking morons.
>>64468386To be fair, the original model of the Predator tank had enclosed sponsons around the heavy bolters, with the ammo feed entirely internal.
>>64470787They paid the artists yes, but the design concepts were blatantly taken from 2000AD etc. - and some of the designers were also writers for 2000AD and were recycling themes they'd used.And the designers have admitted that many times over the last 30 years. its hard to say just how influential 2000AD was at the time, in the 80's. I grew up in an area where comic books were rarely available and the 2000AD titles were absolutely shocking, and I do mean that as an accurate expression - they shocked because they were unlike anything else out there - if Punk had shocked the music establishment in '77, then 2000AD did the same for print. by the time I was finding it around '87 or so, they'd become established, but were in no way mainstream or respectable. so "stealing" might be a little harsh, but the GW writers absolutely took the ideas from existing sources and used it as the foundation for what was to come - and 99% of the 2000AD identity has been retconned and rewritten and refined into the modern 40K setting which is in turn being riffed off and influencing other games today.
>>64471082...and the normal 40k version has a belt feed running to an ammo box inboard of the bolter, with a visible hatch that the crew could open to replace the box.The one with the inaccessible drum magazine is Horus Heresy slop.
>>64471104The only good part of HH is the mechanicum range. God I want rules for thallax in 40k
I hated the hover tanks for marines. someone told me they’re supposed to look like a bradley fighting vehicle. I was like, huh yeah they kinda do. I now only slightly hate them.
>>64466440How do you know He on Earth wasn't working a blue collar job in Lima, Ohio sometime between 979.M1 and 025.M2?
>>64470757The Tau have naturally poor depth perception, so the basic optics of their helmets actually mostly serves to make up for the disadvantage, and it's the markerlights that give them leg up on Imperial units.
>>64466323/k/ is a Tau board
>>64467122that's not orcs?
>>64467126>I don't care what hogwashium your screw frigate is composed of, this contrivance would suffer 'a fate worse than death' if confronted by any pattern of modern gun-howitzer, let alone a built-up 110-pounder RML. Bombard it with enough solid shot or Paixhans shells, and the teak-backing behind her armor plates will splinter and eviscerate every soul within her unpartitioned gundeck.
>>64468801Volkites aren't radioactive, they are supposed to be war of the worlds heat rays or something.
>>64467126>>64467393>>64468396There is actually a novel where a planet has T-55 and late war German Armored cars, T-55scan take on Russes as long as they don't move since the Russ has better gun stabilization.
>>64471454One of the Gaunt books right?
>>64466518You are now reading this autistic assessment of archaic combat vehicles based on fragmentary historical records in the voice of I, Rogal Dorn.
>>64471383I like how the Tau battlesuits are just so much more practical than the Space Marines>Mass produced and easy to replace, yet has the power of a fast flying dreadnought>Don't need to do some ridiculous training program where thousands of recruits die for 1 marine, instead you just take literally any veteran Tau with 4 years of combat experience and give them an opportunity to promote into a battlesuit>Decently armored enough to tank some incoming fire, while having immense firepower and high mobility so it never has to be caught in a melee>Integrated into their cadres, so your common Firewarrior platoon can count on having heavy fire support close by at all times
>>64471459Yeah, Urdesh is basically a Cold War Era forge world.
>>64471438He's talking about the picture, you know, the one that has labeled radium weapons?
>>64471460Why did GW not give his mini the dornstache? Do they hate money?
>>64471474They aren't equivalent, marines are centuries old super warriors that train from near birth and are enhanced to the point they barely count as human. They are only practical compared to the thunder warriors and the custodes.
>>64471517Yeah, Space Marines make sense when you consider that the Emperor had a lot of knowledge about genetic enhancement.....but very little about engineering. Because the Emperor was basically some stone-age warlord who survived into the modern day, he tended to carry the same mindset that you'd expect from that kind of person and very much held an 'unga bunga biggest strongest guy should be in charge' mentality.
>tfw you draw attention to the fact that the setting based on a tabletop board game has scaling which lacks intellectual rigor.
>>64471438I'm aware. I mentioned the Volkite weapons because HH SM had special squads specifically designed to annihiliate things with them.The mechanicus using radioative weapons and causing radiation storms is par for the course. Then again, they also yehaw with gimp horses (servitors put into horse bodies)
>>64471529SM make sense if you consider that they were made to be mass produced during a time when the imperium had stable access to advanced tech and they were churned out in their tens of thousands
>>64471544I mean, space marine destroyers used stuff like sad grenades and such, not even getting into the real nasty shit that the dark angels were packing.IIRC volkites were actually standard issue at the time of the early crusade but the bolter replaced it due to ease of manufacture
>>64471517Training for centuries to use a sword in frontal charges, chanting prayers for six hours a day, and drenching recruits in so many hormones they are basically bara transgenders is not amazingly efficient, anon. Points for points a generic battlesuit is worth multiple space marines.
>>64471554>sad grenadesRad grenades*
>>64471548That too I suppose. Plus apparently the Imperium actually has shit-tons of gene-seed stored up...but they won't use most of it because if there were too many space marines running around that would destabalize the Imperium.
>>64471556That wasn't what anon was saying, he said "they're only practical compared to thunder warriors and custodes", ie Space Marines are super fucking inefficient and a retarded idea, and only Custodes and Thunder Warriors are even less efficient. Though personally I would give a break to the Custodes on account of them being personal bodyguards and thus inherently designed to be very limited in number.
>>64471554I suppsoe they had to make way for Bolters because someone had to go and lose the instruction manuel on how to make fuck you lasers.
>>64471575Thunder warriors were actually easier and cheaper to make, and while being much more powerful than SM they were ridiculously unstable.
>>64471506They're saving the Dornstache for his 40k model once he returns to the Imperium minus hands but having learned headbutt techniques that more than make up for it.
>>64471578Volkites, amusingly, weren't actually that powerful IIRC. Like, they did a ton of damage, but were fairly short-ranged and not good at penetrating armor. So they're the idea weapon for CQC against fleshy enemies, I could see them being amazing at Tyranids and Orks in a space hulk, but despite being a rare tech they're not necessarily inherently better than bolters for everything.>>64471581Yeah, Thunder Warriors were only meant for the campaign on Terra itself IIRC, cause the Emperor literally didn't trust them to be able to sit still on a spaceship long enough in between conquests to not start making trouble.Honestly the contrast between the Tau and the Imperium is fun because it's a study on two fundamentally different ways of doing warfare. Do you treat the common soldier as disposable chaff and focus on uplifting a handful of elite troops to get the missions done that cannot be completed by throwing waves of disposable fodder? Or do you focus your efforts on supporting the common soldier with as much support as you can give, and rely on making regular army elite and well-equipped, foregoing separate organizations of supersoldiers in favor of making the regular military stronger?
>>64471578>>64471605Volkites were phased out because bolters are easier to manufacture on the level the legions needed. The Ad Mech still makes extensive use of them.
>>64466363>The Russ has comparable armament to the Abrams and is worse at just about everything else.In all depictions including that picture where it's labeled 120mm the Battle cannon appears to be two or even three times the caliber. Some kind of low velocity high explosive charge artillery gun more than a MBT cannon.
>>64466323Could Russes fuck up a bunch of M1s Leo2s and T-90s? Probably but it's not really due to their design but more to do with Lascannons being really good AT weapons and there's almost certainly going to be way more Russes in an area then 'native' MBTs. Overall the tank is pretty meh but it's arguably got a good deal of neat gadgets like the aforementioned Lascannons and other highly advanced weapons, the Aupex is supposed to be actually a really good sensor suite too with like AI target recognition and various visual, thermal, and 'magic' scanning methods. Armor wise both sides are basically paper as actual AT equipped Russes would have some nasty weapons and a LR's armor might as well not exist compared to most modern AT ammo. It really comes down to who sees each other first and I feel the MBTs probably have an slight advantage there as Auspex, despite their own paper superiority, are famously unreliable up to and including a handheld one mistaking a fucking warlord titian for a super heavy tank. But as i said above, you'd probably have 3 to 5 Russes in an area compared to most MBTs operating in pairs at and rarely in companies of 4. So the MBTs would probably get the opening slavo off and kill a tank or two, the surviving Russes would probably return effective fire and kill them in return
>>64471294the way he knows that is simple, he's a heretic, like all cogboys. they don't actually believe the Emperor is their god, they just pay lip service to the idea to survive
>>64473134And you just gotta sit there and let us, ecclesiarch. Unless you wanna learn to fix your own shit, or rejuvenat your own choir boy buttholes.
>>64470985>depletedadmech uses enriched uranium for its bullets. Skitarii Vanguard, the troops who carry them, are so irradiated that sleeping in the same tent as them can give you cancer. Their flesh is canonically melting under the armor
>>64472053As mentioned previously, T-55s can canonically stand up to a Russ.
>>64471581Thunder Warriors were better by every metric, even with worse equipment. The only thing they did worse was that they weren't hypnotically indoctrinated to serve the Big E as cattle so they would often go "Nah, fuck this shit" and in an intergalactic campaign, its better to have a 70% super soldier that follows your campaign rather than the 100% super soldier who might decide to go Dolph on the locals to make a fancy ear necklace. Thunder Warriors were just elevated humans on every possible level. The "primarch" of the Thunder Warriors literally describes why he pity's the Custodes and Marines because they are indoctrinated from creation and can't really be called human.
>>64466323>russ is 120mmLmao, how fucking small is that dogshit tank?Is the relative scale on tabletop actually legit
>>64471556>and drenching recruits in so many hormones they are basically bara transgenders is not amazingly efficient, anon.>recruitsSo we're really going along with this retarded retcon so GW can claim to be inclusive and not sexist huh?
>>64471051those would be the various Transuranic guns, like this Transuranic Arquebus
>>64473295>better Yes, thunder warriors were superior to marines and probably cheaper to make but they were highly unstable, both mentally and physically.Aside from dying in combat an average TW had a random chance of just melting into goop orngoing on a psychotic rampage at the drop of a hat, which the highly indoctrinated Astartes generally weren't
>>64468647>Depleted Uranium is non-radioactive UraniumNo such thing as non-radiactive Uranium.DU is the opposite of enriched Uranium so it contains less fissile U-235 (and less of the highly radiactive U-234) and is mainly U-238 which has a half-life of billions of years.Deuterium on the other hand is a stable isotope. But being twice as heavy as regular hydrogen it still differs a lot.
>>64468396The key difference between Russia and the Imperium being that the Imperium actually has the depth to be so wasteful (really it's an utter minefield not being so wasteful at that scale and strength, 4X games have shown me that)And two their Navy is actually the dogs bollocks, and they know, respect it and utilize it
>>64473309>Is the relative scale on tabletop actually legitNo. And never ask questions about relative sizes in different scales, say 40k vs Epic.
>>64471087This is why GWs aggressive IP protection is funny to me, although I don't like it and I really abhor the actions they've taken to protect it, specifically what actions they took against their own products. I remember they used to use third party stuff all the time way back when, and then before that when they didn't even have their own systems to make models for.But I understand why they do it I guess, the big two cases being Blizzard (which is two fold because its their own fault blizzard aped them, and all warcraft/Starcraft media could have just been their IP if blizzard had their way. Someone must still he kicking themselves for that today. Second was chapter master which... I mean I hate GW and mostly buy recast and third party but even so I get why they were massively pissed off
>>64473442I'm just talking about the Russ hereIf that's 120mm in that image it must actually be a tiny little tank
>>64471506>trying to make cuntstodes exist when they already have souless sluts and bolter bitches whom people actually like>saying every faggy thing possible when you know your customer base is 70% internet nazis who already don't like your kikey business practices and are moving to 3d printing because the models are honestly better>refusing to give Rogal Dorn a mustache>do they hate money?YesOh by the way half of this guy's https://cults3d.com/en/users/nfeyma/3d-models shit is free.
>>64473294A T-55 can theoretically turn a Russ inside out with a side shot the same way it can turn an Abrams inside out with a side shot: Auspex is going to catch it in the act before the Soviet archeotech has a clear target 9/10.
>>64471383Someone purge this heretic!
>>64471383Is that right?
>>6447349540k scale is all kinds of fucked in general, Russ being weird is just a tiny aspect of that.
>>64473423And more importantly, the Imperium is still losing. With the exception of the Dark Eldar, every enemy the Imperium has is mostly the result of their own actions, and their inefficiencies and waste have ensure that they’re slowly losing territory over time (and much more quickly recently)
>>64473495The in-universe explanation is that its supposed to have some sort of thermal shroud surrounding it that keeps the barrel at a consistent temperature through rapid firings. Model wise, great big dirty honking gun is cool. >>64473294If you mean the AT-70 Reaver, its described during the gaunts ghosts books as being unable to even penetrate the side armour of a russ, with its 105mm 'hypervelocity' tungsten core rounds. Which i am taking to be equivalent to early 105mm HVAP ammunition (before that development died at the hands of Sabot). It does, however, lack any stabilisation, has no laser rangefinder, and uses Volute spring suspension. The T-55 analogy isnt far off, but they only threatened russes when ambushing, or outnumbering them. Much more heavily armoured though, as they are described as being able to survive a single ATGM from the front in most cases.
>>64473749*much more heavily armoured than a T-55, not the Russ.
>>64473721It's called heroic scale. The toy figures aren't scaled 1:1 to reality, some parts are exaggerated for easier molding or display.
>>64473782They're also not scaled anywhere close to proportional to Epic/Ligma/any other scale, and to nuhammer scale which got rid of some of the heroic proportions.
>>64473486>all warcraft/Starcraft media could have just been their IP if blizzard had their way. Someone must still he kicking themselves for that todaythis is urban legend. neither starcraft nor warcraft were ever supposed to be warhammer games. the president of blizzard pitched it as an idea for warcraft, but the rest of the company opposed it because they had a poor experience making a licensed capeshit game before and wanted an ip they could control.
>>64473679As tactical and cool as the Raptors Chapter is, they are but a thousand men. They will never be as based as an entire faction dedicated to heavy firepower, tactical rapid maneuvers, and and well-integrated C3 support and air superiority.
>>64473977I like to believe outside of memes and the obvious grimderpness the imperium does tend to fight in an effective manner even if all the stupid shit still happens.
>>64467122It needs more dead people stuck in the wiring. This tank is pristine and uninspiring.
>>64474054Eh, I wouldn't count on it. The Imperium's military doctrine most closely resembles modern Russia but somehow even more fucked up, and there are literally famous Guard regiments who legendary for, supposedly, being 'good' by Imperium standards, that literally fight using Napoleonic Warfare tactics. Even a lot of Space Marine chapters fall prey to this. Sure, the Raven Guard and the Raptors are decently tactical. But then you have shit like the Imperial Fists, who use their 1,000 man incredibly limited manpower of elite special forces to...engage in defensive siege warfare. And they're not even the worst offenders, the Space Wolves and Black Templars literally LARP as vikings and crusaders and love melee combat The problem with the Imperium is that there absolutely are slivers of tactical smart units amongst them, but they have to work with a plethora of retards
>>64474074The Imperium's standard for good isn't tacticalcooled professionalism because their elites don't care about external threats. They can always throw more mobiks at those. The real threat is getting couped. It's like Russia: good is primarily judged by how loyal they are to the regime.
>>64474106And that's all well and good but the problem with that approach is that everyone left in 40k is someone for whom the 'drown them in manpower' approach doesn't work anymore.>Tyranids literally eat your mobiks and make more tyranids with them>Necrons are as numerous as your mobiks, far tougher to kill, and respawn after death 99% of the time>Tau have superior range and mobility, so by the time your short-ranged mobiks close the distance, they've already repositioned to another another spot. Also, they take captured mobiks and turn them into loyal effective soldiers for their own side>Eldar just reposition their entire fucking country so they don't have to fight your mobiks and when they are fighting your mobiks, its on their terms against highly specialized elite forces>Dark Eldar are basically impossible to invaded because they have the world's densest most well-defended Solar-system sized city, and their troops can be infinitely cloned as cheap replacable fodder while they still have those elite forces they can rely on (and also troop morale would be extremely low fighting against these guys)>Chaos has literally infinite numbers of daemons to throw at you and only gets stronger by the Imperium being a miserable shithole that people turn to pacts with mega-satan to escape from
>>64474074it's funny how space marines are supposed to be a super elite force that specializes in orbital drops, but they also have their own exclusive tanks and artillery because fuck it there's plastic to sell. it's like if there was a special seal team 6 mlrs.
>>64474144Yes. That's the point. The imperium is exactly what the Emperor wanted to prevent but through his own actions has guaranteed that humanity is fucked. Remember there were worlds within human space that were so astronomically more advanced than the Imperium and AdMech that the Imperium had to do shit redirect passing comets into their worlds to breach their defenses and at the same time, wipes out their technology which managed both Daemon outbreaks and psykers going crazy. Same as the Navigators Guilds destroying shit like Warp Sextants, which were devices to allow warp travel without a psyker, to prevent their monopoly on space travel from being harmed. The emprah, by bringing back medieval guilds on a galactic scale and bending the knee for religious zealots such as the Admech, despite being 100% anti religion himself, had led humanity into a dark darker future than if he had gone back to hiding in a cave post Slaanesh. Doesn't help that the novels released also paint the Emperor as utterly retarded and incompetent on every level while it suggests he was just using whatever dark age tech he could cobble together to produce his masterpieces. It was better with the ignorance we had where the Emperor was actually a good man and was fucked over by his lack of ability to manage the entirety of the galaxy by himself.
>>64471529Space Marines make sense because For Teh Glory of Humanity.They not only military force but also walking advertising for the Emperor Way for human planets reintegrated into his Empire.They were not only stick but also carrot, promising humans abilty to become demi Gods if they join Empire.
>>64466551This niggers post boils down to "ignore everything that makes Warhammer numbers smaller because the numbers attached to the weapons are important to my self esteem.Sorry faggot, for every mention of your mile tall Mechs there will be fifty official depictions retconing them. Stop trying to force 40k to be something it never was and never will be by cherry picking.
>>64467429>20,000 years of technological advancementFollowed by 20,000 years of technological degeneration."Science number go up always" faggots must rope.
>>64474568>promising humans abilty to become demi Gods if they join EmpireJoin the empire and you too can be beaten with a stick every day till your thirty then spend the next 300 years in a steel coffin not having sex before being unceremoniously shot by a 1 year old ork dressed up as a cowboy.
>>64474568>promising humans abilty to become demi Gods if they join Empire.Except Space Marines are infertile and also have to be taken from children, and they suffer ridiculously high attrition rates of like 99%. You're basically advertising that you'll take people's kids, and either kill them, or render them infertile so that their family line ends. And then you'll enslave the family to be worked to death in some hell-factory with no OSHA rules to produce the armor that their indoctrinated infertile child will wear. Not a very enticing offer.
>>64473423Damn right it is. The navy is the true backbone of the Imperium!
>>64474595TBF marines have their libido entirely suppressed by their implants and hypnoindoctrination. If they even still have dicks they ain't getting used for anything but pissing.
>>64475246IIRC Space Marines never even go through puberty. They are, quite literally, man-children.....which explains why so many of them have daddy issues.
>>64475246>>64475263Sheesh. It really sucks to be a Space Marine.
>>64475272It's by design, The Emperor didn't want them replacing baseline humanity, same reason there are no girl marines.
>>644752461. How is that a "to be fair" if that's worse than what I said2. That varies author to author.
>>64470440It's a hover tank that can go from hovering on the ground to flying in space.
>>64471383Nobody likes dumbass weaboo space communists
>>64475582They're modeled on NATO tho, the Imperium are the commies
>>64474459I mean if meal team 6 was also twice the size of the average soldier and ran almost entirely independent, including their budget, of the rest of the military I could see their supporting elements getting custom made
>>64475598it still wouldn't make sense because it's outside the scope of their mission. space marines are basically the capsule troopers from starship troopers.
>>64473977>3rd-7th Tau Lore>Tau are based on 21st century western militaries,>use tactics based on said western militaries>they never bother with trench warfare because they know how retarded it is on the modern (Futuristic) battlefield>Have a feed of constant information from data-linked stealth suits and stealth drones to know where everyone is at all time>Drones can group together and become autonomous sharing data processes across multiple drones reaching near sentients if enough drones are together >Piss off IG and Space marines because they can constantly retreat from unfavorable situations>Space marines have an insanely hard time of ambushing Tau>Tau always retreat from melee range and ensure that the enemy cant get close>8th ed Lore retcons>No longer use tactics>Dig trenches >Tau no longer have constant information from data-linked stealth suits and stealth drones, Both stealth suits and stealth drones can now be season from miles away for "reasons" and now rarely do surveillance. >Drones are now basically quad copter drones that cant do anything without a drone controller....>Tau are constantly ambushed by Space marines>Tau now charge into Melee range at all times
>>64475628There's bad writers for every faction. They retconned Tau FTL too despite that literally making no sense whatsoever for the Tau. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
>>64475515The point was you don't get to fuck is not a downside for SMs because they don't fuck anyway.
>>64471383for the greater good!
>>64466482>They took their present-day and set it as the tactical cap.On that note, weren't top-attack munitions a lost archaeotech from one forgeworld or another?
>>64477559Oh it’s even worse than that, one time while Space Marines were getting shot at by long-range munitions, they assumed the enemy must be using warp-sorcery because BVR tracking tech couldn’t exist otherwise in their eyes
>>64476613While I do like the alt-designs for Gue’vesa, IIRC the Tau literally just give them regular Firewarrior equipment since our proportions are pretty much the same as theirs.
>>64466482>technological progress is a long dead mythEverything that is worth being invented was already invented during the golden age of humanity, heretek. Our purpose is to recover this knowledge for The Omnissiah. >cutting edge tactics from the tauAh yes, “shoot from further away”. What groundbreaking tactics, you xenos loving scum. The regiments of The Imperial Guard specialize in different kinds of warfare. You are comparing shock troopers with siege regiments. If you think mechanized warfare is so fancy then look at The Armageddon Steel Legion.
The on-paper stats of 40k tanks and artillery are worse that what USA and USSR had during the mid-cold war. I blame it on notanks doing the writing.
>>64466566>thinks lasguns don’t need maintenance I bet you don’t know the litany of loading used to placate the lasgun’s machine spirit when inserting a fresh power pack.> Machine-spirit, accept my gift. Swallow the light, and spit out death.
>>64471565Every resource that goes to marines is one that can't go into their pockets after all.
>>64474592The Leman Russ is a recovered design from that technological height. You’re the faggot.
>>64474515>Same as the Navigators Guilds destroying shit like Warp Sextants, which were devices to allow warp travel without a psyker, to prevent their monopoly on space travel from being harmed.I'd call the Navigators fuckwits for it but we all know just how fast they'd get turbofucked for being psychic mutants if they weren't absolutely vital. Hell even when they are vital they still have to hide details because the Imperium would burn down their entire FTL system if they learnt what old Navigators looked like.
>>64471556You are forgetting why SM are special, they have literal plot armor, and no, I am not talking at a meta level, instead the entirety of the astartes program, is derived from the primarch project, which involved collusion with the warp and Perpetual genetics, astartes are ALWAYS supernatural in nature to a certain degree which in turn allow them to ALWAYS go beyond what is statistically possible, the most blatant example was when in the Priests of Mars an Emperor's Champion defeat a mechanicus engine despite this being statistically impossible.
>>64477559>Once the cutting edge of battle cannon technology, the Hunter shell was developed on Tigrus and only ever produced on that Forge World. The knowledge of its construction was lost with the Forge World's capture by Orks. A few shells are occasionally found in storage and issued, but the vast majority of tank crews will never see a Hunter shell, let alone fire one.>The Hunter shell is blessed by the Machine Spirit and contains a small logic-engine, similar to that in a hunter-killer missile, which directs the shell after firing. Upon locking onto a target, it will track its movement. Just before impact the shell will rise up, and drop down on top of the target, hitting its thinner top armour. - Imperial Armour Vol. 1 - Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy page 208
>>64478043>the Imperium would burn down their entire FTL system if they learnt what old Navigators looked like.What DID old navigators look like? Full Dune spacing guild style?
>>64467059DU isn't particularly radioactive.Well, it is, but not dangerously so. Just don't breathe in the metal fumes.
>>64478078Almost. Not full tadpole but getting there.
>>64478078The navigators who get old are mostly a random hodgepodge of mutilations where they're not quite chaos spawn but they're also not really humanoid either.
>>64478038Isn’t there speculation that the Leman Russ is actually a DAoT tractor tho
>>64478100No that's old fanon nobody has ever found the quote for.There is a separate vehicle that's technically an Imperium tractor with guns mounted on it but that's a Forge World thing.
>>64477941That's more down to the fact that there are still no official Gue'Vesa figures even all these years later, so they say that if you want to represent them on the battlefield just kitbash models to mix'n'match Fire Warrior and Guardsman compo wants and it will be a good enough approximation. If Gue'Vesa ever get an actual miniature line they probably will have a unique design alongside >>64476613
>>64478229Honestly I'm kinda glad Gue'Vesa get jackshit so that they don't slowly warp the faction to being the humans and some alien hangers-on because people really would latch on to a bunch of humans with models who don't act like the Imperium.
>>64478038Lmao then I guess their technological height can't produce something better than a WW2 tank you fucking idiot.
>>64478229I wonder if Gue'Vesa get to pilot battlesuits
We have made 10 million threads on 40k vs. real world weapons, and have become exceedingly efficient at it
