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Rheinmetall 40×46mm SSW40

>>64495933
>inb4 40kids chiming in with "IT'S A BOLTER" and "FOR THE EMPEROR"

>>64495933
What niche does this fill?

The only lessons to be learned about the XM25 are that, if your main supplier starts clutching pearls over the legality of their product and seeks reassurances that they wont be held accountable if it actually gets interpreted to be a le-heckin-warcrime, just tell them what they want to hear so everybody can move on instead of stringing them along with vague bullshit to the point that the whole program is in deadlock. As an aside, it seems like all the PGL contestants took to heart all that hyperbole around the NGSW about how Americans will never adopt a bullpup, because they're all conventional pattern designs. Sad desu, seems inefficient for a grenade launcher specifically intended to have longer range/higher velocity than regular 40mms and be lighter the XM25 (14 lbs, so not a lot of breathing room for a semi auto GL) and will lead to frontheavy guns that suck to carry.

>>64495945
>Look at the heckin chonk bolterino

>>64495968
Just tell them to stop clutching pearls or you'll look elsewhere

>>64495945
>>64495972
seething over 40kGODS award

>>64495957
Tiny mortar at squad level.
Like the French squad mortar in Africa, or the IJA "knee mortar" in the Pacific.

>>64495945
>40k is now le bad after Trump started meming about being God Emperor
Leftoid seethe could fuel the empire for a decade

>>64495933
Needs purity seals on it.

>Northrop-Colt
What kind of joint venture is that?

>>64495968
>Sell guns
>Am I going to be morally responsible for le murder?
Yeah fuckhead. 2000s HK was retarded.

>>64496043
A financially and morally bankrupt one, hopefully.

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Here's an info graph I made of the top competitors in PGS right now. I really like the SSW40 but it seemingly dosen't hit the velocity requirements

>>64496141
I need to update this when I get home since soldiersystem put out some new articles. The MTL-30 does have airburst capability advertised and we got numbers for some more of the cartridge dimensions

>>64496148
the FN one seems nice, lightest of those that meet the velocity requirement, and 30mm is a good compromise caliber

>>64496141
>>64496148
Awesome, thanks anon. Be sure to add these details for the MTL-30
>The medium velocity rounds produce 45 ft lbs of recoil and shoot pretty flat. With under 3 seconds time of flight to 300 meters, the max elevation for the ammunition is 11m out to 500m.
https://soldiersystems.net/2025/10/17/ausa-25-fn-multi-purpose-tactical-launcher-30mm-mtl-30/
Looks like it's below the velocity requirement.
The Barrett is starting to look nicer too. It was really ugly at first.

>>64495995
I don't get it, what terrain? Why would it be better than a mortar, grenade launcher, or LAW? I guess airburst over a trenchline or having to put it in every window in an apartment complex, but if it's mech infantry the bradley's chaingun can knock fortified positions well enough.

>>64496243
the real purpose is as an airburst anti-drone weapon for light infantry, hence the velocity requirement. Using it as a normal grenade launcher is just a bonus.

>>64495957
Plugging everyone behind a piece of cover or a window quickly. It's a form of shoot-to-kill fire support, like a LAW but with much greater magazine depth (think 30+ bombs standard loadout).
>>64496243
Any terrain, but it's much more significant for urban environments. It's excellent for foxholes and treelines.
And you said it yourself. Light infantry, which are probably what PGS is for, benefit the most from portable fire support. The USMC's OPF-L initiative addresses a similar niche for rapid, lethal, and squad-level organic fire support.
>>64496317
5 bucks says muhdrones were just a way of scaring the brass into funding it.

>>64496035
fuck off faggot
go worship your orangutan pedo somewhere else

>>64496141
thanks anon
id say add the neopup and xm25 reference
>>64496035
where trumpstein list tho

>>64496141
>Here's an info graph I made of the top competitors in PGS right now.
i have a prediction: the Army chooses one competitor, but asks them to redesign it for different ammunition, boondoggle ensues, project cancelled.

>>64496035
My brown friend, GayWokeshit already made 40K leftoid

>>64495933
Will this be Colt's comeback, or will they still fuck it up?

>>64496035
I actually like 40k some, but this shit was annoying 15 years ago.

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>>64496043
It should really be Northrop-Grumman-Colt, they can't just forget about Grumman.

>>64495968
I'm 99% certain that H&K knew that it was bullshit but decided that they just didn't want to fucking bother with the XM25 program anymore, so they pulled that out of their ass as an excuse.

I do agree with your point on it being a bullpup though, this is the exact kind of weapon where that would make a much more important difference than for a rifle or carbine. You could make not insignificant weight and bulk savings with bullpupping these hulking killing machines.

Also, unlike the NGSW program, this program has actual promise, embiggening the grenades might be a solution.

>>64496141
Heey, good little piece of OC!

>>64495933
These mags seem stupid.
Why not a shorter magwell, with a rotary magazine? You're not going to get a ton of rounds in a mag without making it fuckhueg anyway because of their size, but something like an upscale 10rd 10/22 mag seems viable and would reduce the weapons profile.

>>64497180
I can see your argument, but rotary magazines are more mechanically complex and thus could be more vulnerable in adverse conditions and may wear more unevenly, they would also be pretty bulky still.

A 5rd or 6rd box mag isn't small for cartridges like these, but they're flat and they'll work.

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>>64495968
>>64497119
>agree with your point on it being a bullpup though
>exact kind of weapon where that would make a much more important difference than for a rifle or carbine
me three
XM25 was kaboshed for the 'wrong' reason (and ought already be adopted rn)

>>64497336
They felt the XM25 wasn't reliable enough and not quite powerful enough, wasn't that it?

I thought one of the biggest conclusions was 25mm is too small and 30mm is the sweet spot

>>64497180
>>64497301
Yeah, the magazines are for follow-up shots. It's also why autoloading is a requirement.

>>64497362
Depending on where you read, there were 'multiple reasons'. Army cites weight, bulk, and cost (in the OP article). System was field evaluated by Rangers in Afghanistan 2013, after which budget cuts occurred
as mentioned upthread there was also the issue of humanitarian compliance (when brought up this is often "debunked" as 'no, that wasn't the reason')
Army also supposedly cited the doctrinal role of the system itself, saying that removing a soldier's requirement to carry the launcher in lieu of a primary M4 infantry rifle makes the soldier "unable to perform required tasks" and "reduces capacity to engage targets"
Taken together it's all (from a procurement and doctrine p.o.v.) nonsensical. Especially with this re-animated 2025 edition

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>>64496035
No, its bad because Leftists hijacked the IP and turned it into yet another "modern politics" reimagining.
Naturally the moment leftists gained control they wanted to start appealing to children because they are pedophiles.

>>64497387
I mean to say that if it weren't for the follow-up short requirement, the guns would have been manually loaded with rounds carried loose like 40mm, because that's the lightest and least bulky way.
>>64497408
I was so fucking pissed when they killed it. Then I moved on to cheering for LSAT and they fucking killed it too and for even worse reasons. Words cannot describe how much I hate Big Army.

>>64497435
>when they killed it
I don't follow this kind of stuff too closely (especially in the post-1980s era) but yes, of the more recent battlefield arms tech being cancelled it seemed a real eyebrow-raiser given how much had been invested in the concept since the 1990s beginning with the 20 mm version

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM29_OICW

>>64497421
>40k being turned into wokeslop
Thank god. This terrible cringefest of a franchise, built almost exclusively of stolen IP, has been lining the pockets of GreedWorkshop for far too long.
I can't wait to watch it all burn.

# 64497408
From the doctrine point of view, I don't understand why the Army (and also USMC) can't just have a designated squad XM25 gunner like they already do an IAR or SAW gunner
(if ? they were supposedly so concerned about a soldier "unable to performe required tasks" because he's carrying the launcher instead of an M4)

>>64497408
>Army also supposedly cited the doctrinal role of the system itself, saying that removing a soldier's requirement to carry the launcher in lieu of a primary M4 infantry rifle makes the soldier "unable to perform required tasks" and "reduces capacity to engage targets"
I believe that this came from complaints by some people, but not everyone. Some people liked the thing quite a lot, others didn't find it that good and thought they would have been better off if the guy had carried a rifle instead.

>>64497519
Right, that's my impression got from reading a lot of that stuff. 'Some people's' opinions gained precedence and authority over others. Never mind the opinions (of troops/commanders in field tests operating and carrying the system), what about the doctrine? See post immediately above (You)rs.
Anyway the whole procurement-adoption decisions around the system seemed arbitrary.
Why develop such a weapon when everybody already knows damned well from the outset that it's going to be replacing an infantryman's own rifle, due to it being similar size? (And then, after spending all the money-time to develop and field it end up saying: "Well, it's going to impede the soldier's ability to carry his rifle." Wtf?)
All of the "it replaces his rifle" / "unable to perform (other combat) tasks" excuses seem to be along the lines of "why not just use an M203 attached to rifle" or "use an M320 instead," each of which are just as logically inconsistent: Why bother developing a new grenade launcher system/weapon *at all*, then?
None of it makes any sense.

>>64496035
>>64497421
>push god emperor trump memes to make the left seethe
>make 40k wokeslop to make the right seethe
Malal is pleased

>>64497532
I can understand the replaces a rifle complaint because what is he going to do during a prolonged fire fight? Sit around and wait for a relevant target to use it?

>>64497532
The reason is incompetence and corruption. I've read technical reports (granted, old ones) where they straight up lie/seriously misunderstand what's going on. I think procurement is actually a lot like corrupt lawyering, the adoption of a certain product hinges on who you send to present it most of the time.
>>64497555
His presence shortens most firefights, and when it doesn't, the platoon only loses 2 guns. It's not a big deal.

>>64497555
checked, well (You) explain the doctrine, or *reason for even developing* a dedicated grenade launcher weapon then.

See, read: ------------- >>64497497

>fire fight
Isn't that what a grenade launcher with programmable-homing projectiles is intended for? To give covering fire (beyond or complementary to e.g. a SAW or IAR automatic small arm) advantage to a small unit or squad?

>targeting
since the first 1990s 20 mm versions the intention of the new system was to have its ammunition rounds be programmable for airburst, to hit targets dug in or under/behind cover.
(isn't that what typically happens in a 'fire fight', at least some of the adversary is dug in/behind cover...?)

make one guy carry two rifles and 12 mags. jeez, how stupid are generals?

>>64497571
>His presence shortens most firefights
That's what I thought the whole point of the weapon, system and technology was

>platoon loses only 2 guns
See post above about doctrine.
The weapon is a 'new classification' for Army infantry doctrine purposes, from the 1990s (the earliest 20 mm versions) forward. This I guess is where the incompetence and bureaucratic inertia comes in... but when the MIC is throwing millions $$$$ at the system over a decades-long period then no one is actually paying attention anyway, to the reason they supposedly "want" it in the first place? idk

>>64496317
On the money. Airburst 25mm grenades is basically the scaled up version of what Russia and Ukraine is doing, 3D printing 5.45 and 5.56 sabots that hold ratshot, so they can shoot down drones in cases where you can't get shotguns out to platoons.

Does drone takedown way better than what can be achieved with shotguns, while doubling as mobile smoke and IDF system.

We'll probably see a slight restructure of the squad element, where you have 6 rifleman, 2 crew served, 1 squad leader, 1 medic, 1 RTO, and 1 dedicated grenadier. You'll have guys still carrying 320's, but one guy will be rocking this specifically, probably with an M4 as backup, if not, an M17.

We MIGHT see the anti personel munitions from the XM25 make a come back but probably not. Those grenades were so fucking expensive, more than the cost of the XM25. And once it got out of the hands of the 101st, and HK fumbled the ball, a whole lotta minds were turned off.

>>64497519
HK's manufacturing inconsistencies was the problem. Grenades are fucking scarry.
>HURR FUKIN PUSSY
Everybody thinks that until you're holding one in your hand, and one little fucky wucky on how you twist the pin smokes your ass. A whole fucking magazine of grenades is even worse.

>>64497497
The M27 is a workaround for replacing the M4 for the Marines, ding dong. The Marines have long since transitioned to being an amphibious force, and they wanted something that would handle water better than the M4. Which is why HK made special modifications to the 416 specifically for the M27, mainly dealing with water drainage after the gun has been completely submerged.

>>64497605
>textwall 'muh marines'
Idgaf. Only mentioned it because of the loose analogy between (the Army's) SAW and the USMC recently-adopted M27 IAR: **these are squad-level full auto suppressive fire small arms**. A general dedicated role in which the XM25 grenade launcher (<--not a rifle-cartridge arm) could also ? have a parallel role: Covering suppressive fire, to shorten fire fights/engagements for a small unit. But it needs a dedicated infantryman to carry-deploy it, just as the SAW (Army) and IAR (usmc) requires.
Take your hairsplitting textwall kvetch and keep it on boomerbook or plebbit

>>64496141
Barrett or Rheinmetall should win the contract (ideally Barrett)
FN is a okay fallback

But we live in the worst timeline so Colt/N-G will get the contract with the cope being that they are a trusted legacy contractor
In reality they will just have bribed the right generals to get there trash contracted

The will be produced in limited numbers hated by end users and quietly shelved
The generals and Colt/N-G execs will go out for dinner at Benihana and use burning 100 dollar bills as matches to light cigars

>>64496141
>>64496148
thanks anon, helpful

>>64497633
>outcome
Probably precisely this

>>64495933
What if the grenades are autonomous mini drones

>>64497767
This is what it's all converging towards
(back in the '90s and the original 20 mm variant, it was not technologically feasible)

>>64497767
>>64497771
That's an ATGM. Those cost enough to pay for a significant fraction of the monthly rent of a New York apartment, so they're trying to find something cheaper that infantry can use for window cleaning instead.

>>64497824
>ATGM
the drones only have to be anti-personnel
tiny in size/mass

>>64496043
Sounds like something from Crimson Skies. I like it.

>>64497832
Yeah but the expensive part isn't the size and payload, it's the sensors, electronics, and guidance machinery.

>>64497832
Too small and it can't pierce closed civilian barriers like windows/doors. Plus if you're investing in the datalink and thermal camera, you might as well buy a warhead big enough to be trustworthy.

>>64497421
pls go back to your cave Matt Ward

>>64496359
>Light infantry, which are probably what PGS is for, benefit the most from portable fire support
>The USMC's OPF-L initiative addresses a similar niche for rapid, lethal, and squad-level organic fire support
Yeah but in canceling prior grenade launcher programs (as discussed ^^^upthread) they claimed that one of the main reasons was the infantryman was "unable to perform other (rifle-oriented combat) tasks?
In other words is this PGS for real, this time? Or they're not going to lie, this time?

So are U.S. Army (and/or Marines) going to be consistent and say 'yes, this weapon will replace the infantryman's rifle and his role (like the SAW / IAR gunner) will be dedicated specifically to it' ?
In other words, doctrinally, there's going to be in the platoon-squad command structure a new PGS gunner MOS, analagous to a SAW / IAR gunner

The anon's Infographic posted above says
>PGS has not had a formal prrogram of record established
>'Envisioned' as a soldier's primary weapon

This is all just more "envisioning"?
FFS, since the beginning in 1990s it was obvious that this launcher *would* be an infantryman's dedicated main weapon. (It's not a 'sidearm' or 'optional weapon') Anyone with a functioning brain can see/comprehend that

This is what we were discussion upthread about the MIC / mil procurement authority b.s., grift and lies

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>>64498153
https://xtech.army.mil/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/2023-xTechSoldier-Lethality-RFI_FINAL.pdf

It's actually "anticipated", and I really dunno what you're shitting yourself over there's been about 4 million dollars total spent on this program with the two PPON contracts. The US army at one point had a grenadier that had the M79 as his primary weapon, thing can change over time and it's not unfathomable to have a squad member operate a very lethal direct fire weapon in lieu of his rifle.

>>64497421
Don't all these kids get murdered by an awakening Necron tombworld by the end of this book?

>>64498251
>"shitting yourself"
idgaf. Read my post (You) replied to, it's about the _doctrine_ based on the prior cancellation of XM25 "can't have the rifleman give up his rifle" pseudo-rationale

>picrel
>muh grenadier
We already know what the PGS *as a weapon* is and does, just as we knew back in the 1990s what the XM29 was and XM25 in 2000s was. We know what it is.
The question is: Army doctrine going to create a *new MOS* for Grenade Gunner? (analogous to SAW gunner / IAR gunner)
Yes / No

I love how thick and round grenade rifles look and that's the only reason I hope they get adopted

>>64498387
Probably not? You'd just get cross trained. The weapon is pretty simple. The Army dosen't have special squad role MOSs.

>>64498532
Whatever (You) want to call it.
In an Army squad, someone gets "designated" or trained as a SAW gunner
That's my point. Define / categorize it how you want, the grenade gunner would be an additional 'training' or category to the already-existing SAW gunner personnel

Why do we care? Because in 2018 when the Army canceled the XM25, they claimed a prime reason was because "we're not having the rifleman give up his rifle"

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>>64496035
>he doesn't know warzigger is monke kings favorite game

>>64495957
Defeating defilade and cover without having to call a fire mission or air support

>>64498577
checked

>>64496141
I hope we go with Rheinmetall, it looks like its from aliens

>>64498658
I'm surprised at how it's lighter than all of the rest, I figure it's because 40mm MV is relatively low pressure so the barrel and bolt can be very light

>>64498658
It also has a tip-up barrel so you can load the first round directly into the chamber and skip racking the action. Much like a XXXL version of early 20th century pocket pistol, which is cool as fuck.

>>64498828
isnt that supposed to primarily be for longer rounds?

>>64496035
40k got associated with alt right groypers / vatniks, so now everyone laughs at 40k and considers it brown and Indian. Sorry glavset.

>>64497408
There was also some kind of near-fatal accident with an xm25 on a range somewhere in the sandbox if I recall correctly.
Like, an accident that happened due to ammunition malfunction, and because the chamber is so close to the body, was extremely grievous.

I think that might be part of the reason there's no bullpups in the current batch of contenders, I think they might have specifically put the kabosh on that from the start.
I don't know if whatever happened would have been prevented with a conventional layout but with the nature of the projectiles in question it's a possibility.

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>>64497605
>The M27 is a workaround for replacing the M4 for the Marines
Yes.

>The Marines have long since transitioned to being an amphibious force
Not to the extent that you seem to think.

>and they wanted something that would handle water better than the M4
If this is a stated reason you've read somewhere, it's very retarded, because I can promise you that only a fraction of people in the Marine Core actually do amphibious anything, and those that do don't frequently tend to be in the position where they need the gun to be readied half a second faster. Navy Seals would be those who do amphibious shit the most, and they frequently have other reasons to choose other weapons for that anyway.

>Which is why HK made special modifications to the 416 specifically for the M27, mainly dealing with water drainage after the gun has been completely submerged
Except that you wouldn't really need to do anything further to the 416 on that point. You can drill out a small drain hole in the bottom of the buffertube on a regular AR15 to make water drain out faster, if that's something you really need doing.
The 416's piston doesn't necessitate that, and the thing is so violently overgassed that I don't see why it would need anything further done to deal with water, I'm confident that it can plow through whatever effects there are from that.

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fucking kraut space magic

>>64496141
Didn't Barrett already win?

>>64499382
No Barret won a development contract and so did FN I think
Most recently the Colt offering also got a development contract

The news keeps framing them getting development contracts as being selected fully but its just funding to continue developing the prototypes

>>64496141
They should've gone for the HAMMR.
>Accepts pre-existing ammunition
>Lighter than everyone else
>Break-action for loading micro-missiles and shit
>Can use special-issue 40mm rounds for airbursting
It just werks.

>>64495943
...yeah, that magazine needs to be shrunk down.

>>64495968
XM25 didn't fail because of any dumb "it's a warcrime" memes. It failed because 25mm has shit lethality.

>>64499117
The Marines explicitly announced the transition back in 2010, and with Force Design 2030, they've dropped the Abrams entirely, and have been recently spinning their wheels trying to adopt truly amphibious IFVs that don't suck ass.

The writing is on the wall what war they're preparing for, and that being Army 2.0 fucked them in the ass when they're supposed to be the amphibious expeditionary force of the Military. 82nd clears the way, the Marines take the beach.

When you're fighting in and around the equator, humidity, rain, tangible moisture is a massive, very real problem. Im not talking about photoshoots of guys crawling out of rivers, monsoon season hits in certain places of the world and it doesn't stop raining for weeks on end. Its not about being overgased, its that the impingment gas system on the M4 REALLY doesn't like water, while the external piston on the M27 keeps functioning.

Considering the numbers the Marines are fielding the M27, and the fact that they were set to outfit all 4 of their infantry divisions with M27s before Biden and Congress slashed their budget, why else would they adopt the M27? They barely had the money to begin with, and for what? An extra inch of barrel in a rifle less accurate than a bog standard M4 they could have easily free floated to achieve even better accuracy?

>Barrett weighs 40% more than the Rheinmetall
But why...

>>64499595
Chambered in a much hotter high velocity round, plus it has a heavy optic mounted.

>>64499450
>It failed because 25mm has shit lethality.
Source?

>>64495933
companies try to push this shit every decade or so and it never works out. turns out individual dismounted men aren't supposed to be and don't want to engage BMPs

>>64496243
it's not and again companies try to push this every few years not realizing that the average muhreen doesn't want to carry 20kg of explosives "just in case" when guided artillery is on call 24/7 anyway

>>64497435
> I was so fucking pissed when they killed it. Then I moved on to cheering for LSAT and they fucking killed it too and for even worse reasons.
Don’t worry anon. They made a 13lb battle rifle and cut combat ammo loads by 33%. It’ll be great this time.

>>64499682
It had never once been pitched as an anti-armor weapon.

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>>64495933
Is the payload comparable to an RPG-7 HEAT warhead? Is this just basically a western RPG team?

>>64499709
my point stands that it's pointless when real life is not cowadoody and guided artillery is on standby any time you want to say "I really wish that man had no cover"

as an addendum, when you can't call guided artillery on it 99.9% of the time ROE would probably dictate you can't saturate it in grenade fire either

>>64496141
That's real cool but do you think we could mount a really small assault rifle or maybe a PDW on the bottom so the guy carrying it can shoot at enemies too? Like some kind of...Individual Combat Weapon.

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>>64499808
if even canada gave up on it it's time to let go

>>64499815
Is that a gun designed for women?

>>64499778
with the advent of ugv and drones, this type of weapons might find good use. you can't exactly call artillery, or waste your anti tank missile on a small robot
https://www.forbes.com/sites/vikrammittal/2025/10/12/russia-and-ukraine-deploy-unmanned-ground-vehicles-into-kill-zones/

>>64499943
>you can't exactly call artillery, or waste your anti tank missile on a small robot
Unlike ukraine, we have a larger tax base. Let the taxpayer worry about it.

>>64499778
What a retard take.
>real life is not cowadoody
which is precisely why its so valuable to end firefights promptly, because fire support takes minutes to arrive even when pre-ranged and hiding behind a rock until your health recharges isn't a real thing.

>>64499054
https://web.archive.org/web/20130709022726/http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20130305/NEWS/303050330/Army-removes-XM25-from-service-after-incident
>A soldier was injured during a Feb. 2 live-fire training event during which the primer of a 25mm high-explosive air burst round ignited as a result of a double feed, according to Army spokesman Matthew Bourke.
>Although the primer and propellant were initiated, safety mechanisms prevented the round's warhead from detonating. The gun was inoperable after the explosion.
>"The gunner training on the weapon system received superficial injuries," said Bourke. "The gunner was medically evaluated and returned to duty."

>>64499955
>which is precisely why its so valuable to end firefights promptly,
Fire mission, danger close

>>64496141
>actual effortpost
Based

>>64495968
>muh heckin warcrime
What fucking warcrime? Grenades aren't fucking bullets!

>>64496035
Fuck off retard, this has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with you faggots being the scifi/military fiction equivalent of MLP pedos.
Even still, 40k got hijacked by woketoid retards so it's far from a right wing issue.

>>64499947
well, these also work much better than the shotgun as a hard kill last resort drone countermeasure

>>64499960
Ah, I guess it wasn't nearly as bad as I remembered.
It might have been the one in Korea that kaboomed and nearly killed someone, which was a Daewoo K11 bullpup, not sure.

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>>64496035
Every fag who likes 40k and acts like this deserve the rope. Too bad they would probably break either the rope or whatever they are strung up from.

>>64495933
>>64495943
Damn that's really cool!

Let's build a million of them that looks like an AR-15 instead

>>64499440
Would you rather have 6 or 9 rounds in your grenade rifle? Because I'll take the extra vertical bulk if it means my gun doesn't go click when a retard pops his head out during a firefight and nobody else sees him in time, as should you. Bulk only really matters if it is on the sides or in the front/back. Nobody really cares about top-bottom bulk since your body is already built parallel to it

>>64500212
This anon has never shot prone in his life.
Probably rings his life-alert so the orderlies can come scoop him up every time he falls out of his mobility scooter, desu

>>64495957
Imagine being able to mortar or FPV the enemy but aren't required to set anything up for 10+ minutes or sit still in the same spot so you get killed or surrounded. It's heavy firepower but with much better chance of hitting something and with a thousand times better mobility. This thing would kick ass in trench and urban warfare. Especially if you shoot airbursts over the walls, at the bare minimum concussing the living fuck out of anyone trying to inch toward you.

You can also magdump it into hidey holes from far away so Russians can't easily magdump you through the other side through a blanket, a scummy tactic they always love using in close range engagements

>>64500225
>lying down prone in a trench/hallway
Oh no! A not a thing that will never happen and has never happened in combat in a million years! What ever will they do!

Nobody lies prone. That's how you get a explosive thrown at your face while you scramble up panicking like a retard because you believed CoD was real life. No mobility=death, especially in post 2022 warfare. This isn't afghanistan where you are on the side of a tall mountain trying to make a smaller silhouette for the taliban

>>64495957
The one that is already covered by fpv

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>>64499700
Fucking hell. I'm so excited for PGS, but there's a 95% chance it's going to be raped like so many other promising programs. Fuck the Army.
>>64500212
Short magazines are better for PGS in most situations.
>less bulky, so it doesn't snag and you can go prone
>less weight on the weapon
>allows for more ammo variety, and easier to change ammo types
PGS isn't for suppression, it's very much shoot-to-kill. Doctrinally, think of it like a LAW/RPG-7/AT4 shrunken down for magazine depth and given a counter-defilade fuze to make the smaller warhead useful. The magazine is really only there for follow-up shots.

>Let's build a million of them that looks like an AR-15 instead
The Barrett/MARS SRSS will look very different for its actual deployment.

>>64500253
>Mobility is death
>Why yes, I would like a magazine that weighs twice as much and makes my gun half a foot taller
>No, I don't want to be able to bend down or lay flat on my stomach on account of my fuck huge magazine pouches

>>64497901
Concur, it looks badass as all hell

>>64500253
There's a lot of combat that doesn't involve urban environs or trenches

>>64500225
Just hold the gun sideways.

>>64498892
Yeah, but it's also promoted as a feature to quickly and easily +1 load the gun.
Loading that way means that the operator basically never has to manually cycle the action, provided that there are no malfunctions.

>>64495945
No one mentioned Boltguns besides you. While it obviously has several comparisons to them you are the one bringing it up and you then spammed a bunch of 40k hate shit in a thread that hadn't even mentioned it all.

Idiot, you don't even know 40K lore. It needs to be at minimum a .75 Gyrojet that fires from the equivalent of 20 GA shotgun brass, not counting the actual projectile which should be DP/Frag at a minimum. Highly impractical but fun.

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>>64496035
40kids we're already insufferable before GW shat the bed to sell you more shitty plastic and paint. Stop being beholden to a megcorp

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>>64495945
And (you) had to be first one to ruin this thread. We can't have discussions about grenade launchers without 40kids ruining 'em.
>>64496035
Fuck off to /tg/ to discuss 40k, nigger. This isn't occasional off topic discussion anymore, but majority threads about certain weapons being derailed.
>>64497119
>they can't just forget about Grumman.
They should at this point.

>>64495933
>the new grenade launcher from Northrop Grumman is 11-and-a-half-pounds

So it weighs as much as a sack of a dozen hand or rifle grenades. That would do the job without the burden and cost of this launcher.

>25mm
Meme. They worked out long ago you go 40mm or go home.

>>64496241
The Barrett/MARS has a muzzle velocity of 203 m/s or 666 fps (Janes). Assuming "under 3 seconds" is 2.5 seconds to 300 meters, the FN likely only manages about 120 m/s or 390 fps. The Barrett will have a much flatter trajectory and better range. The XM25 had a V0 of 690 fps.
I'm rooting for the Barrett. 390 fps for the FN is the same as 40mm MV. Might as well get the SSW40 or make an airburst M320 at this point.

>>64500711
>They should at this point.
The fact that grumman made all those little fuckers that are still out there trundling along delivering mail and packages when the last one rolled off the assembly line THIRTY YEARS AGO should be more reason to remember them, not less.

>>64495957
The niche that they tried to clumsily fill by buying the XM7.

>>64496507
My dude, this is the weapons board... Did you assume you were surrounded by Redditors and le based heckin leftyrinos?

>>64496141
The MTL30 looks the most like a finished product, the SRSS and PGS look like some weird investor scam shit.
The SSW40 looks cool as FUCK but like some early prototype.

None of these seem ready for the field.
Good post though.

>>64499458
>its that the impingment gas system on the M4 REALLY doesn't like water
This is literally only a problem when you submerge the entire rifle in water and fire it when it's still full of water, this is NEVER going to be an issue with air humidity, rain, or even fucking monsoon weather, and if you do dunk your entire rifle in water somehow, it takes a single second to drain enough to be safe, less if you have the drain hole in your buffer tube.

>>64499778
It's not for deleting cover, it is for negating it by sending airburst rounds into structures and over trenches at 2-300 meters.
>>64499943
Does seem it would be nice for drones if they offer rounds with VT fuses.

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>>64500848
Rifle grenades don't have the same range and flat trajectory, hand grenades do not have even a fraction of the same range or trajectory, and it's a comical comparison to make. Nor for that matter the precision.
The entire point is a grenade launcher which you can aim and fire basically like a rifle, yes, the 25mm and 30mm grenades are smaller than 40mm grenades, so you get a less powerful payload per shot (and why the 20mm shells in the OICW were abandoned), but it's also an easy weapon to doubletap with to make up the difference.

You do have the Rheinmetall launcher which IS 40mm, for both the low velocity 40x46mm and medium velocity 40x51mm. This is a VERY promising weapon in its own right for a number of reasons, in part for being able to single load extra long 40mm shells like certain flares, or the Raytheon Pike, even with a magazine of other grenades at the ready, but even the medium velocity grenades have appreciable air time and a parabolic trajectory, so this weapon isn't exactly fitting smoothly into the goals of the program.
Actual high velocity 40x53mm grenades have been tried in handheld weapons before in the EX-41, but the recoil is brutal as hell, Reed Knight described it as "being punched in the face with every single shot," which is a big reason that weapon wasn't developed much further, along with the weight and bulk of the system. There's no easy solution on this point.

>>64501567
Airburst 25mm and 30mm grenades might be an ok solution for larger drones (as in, the ones that still fly relatively low to the ground, like you see in Ukraine).

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>DUDE DRONES
>this will totally work for drones bro! just like double-barrel shotguns
>nigga this ain't shit! gibsme an FPV
>skeet shooting should be taught at basic!

please... stop...

>>64499808
>>64499815
I remember the very first concept drawings of the OICW I saw in stuff like Popular Mechanics had an MP-7 as the underbarrel gun instead of a G36.

>>64495933
I think the automatic/small payload concept isn't a great idea. 25mm grenades just aren't that effective.
A single shot bolt action 40mm high velocity concept would be a better idea IMO.
>similar weight
>higher velocity
>much greater explosive payload
Not everything has to be automatic, you have to make big design comprises for that.

>>64496141
>Hammar
>9 pounds firing 40mm MV
Hammer is right. Is there some enhanced recoil reduction system?

>>64499815
>>64499818
They only put that on there because it is so much fun people were overusing it.

>>64500242
>heavy
Even standard 40 doesn't pack much pop.

>>64495943
That's a big mag

>>64501864
Four rounds.

>>64501633
I feel you, anon.
>we're totally gonna shoot down drones with 30mm MV grenades from handheld launchers
With what targeting system? Are you going to mount a portable radar to an already american-consoomer-tier overweight weapon to figure out the proper time delay? Or put proximity fuzes into grenades that are already shrunken down to borderline uselessness due to magazine feeding and velocity concerns? How are grunts supposed to target an object the size of a helmet flying and maneuvering at ~50-100kph with this heckin' chonker of a gun? At what effective distance? Because safety fuze standoff is gonna be at least 30m, and the detection distance for a 10" FPV flying straight at you is ~200m - if you're in an open field. At best, the grunt is gonna have around 10 seconds to figure out the direction of attack, visually detect the incoming drone, range it and fire, and pray that the first shot disables it, because he'll need to re-range for the second and by that time, the drone's gonna bonk him on the head with half a kilo of TNT.

As an political play to appropriate another couple hundred million $ on a re-run of an already twice-failed program, "muh drones" is very period-correct and fashionable. As a doctrinal, tactical and technical reason to arm a grunt with a semi-auto mini-grenade laucher, it's retarded.

>>64501707
A pump-action would be even better, you can keep the magazine feed and even incorporate Rheinmetall's swing-out barrel (to the side maybe) for extra compatibility with existing special 40mm loads.

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>>64495945
Remember anons, Bongs invented 40K because they can't have guns and their women are disgusting.

>>64501917
>40k gets hijacked by vatniks
>immediately gets countered and everyone mocks 40k
>crying about bongs begins
Pottery

>>64502076
I don't know what you're talking about. I've never played 40K, looks like some fag shit, everyone knows that brits are fags.

Also, slava ukraine, I guess.

>>64500850

See >>64501575
given the advancements in guidance+explosive charge miniaturization, the original HK/Alliant 25 mm concept seems optimal. As does the XM25's bullpup configuration.
(but here we are again with OP >>64496141 gigagrift-procurement debacle, decades later)

>>64497408
My understanding is that the Rangers hated it because they were doing no-knock raids on urban homes and compounds in the middle of the night. The XM-25 brought nothing to the table for them, and replaced M-4s. Line troops who were running OPs and COPs, on the other hand, loved it. So, it was a mission/doctrine issue, and really shouldn't have been issued to the Rangers in the first place unless they were doing a more traditional commando raid that required the extra firepower.

>>64502076
40K was always gay and cringe.
The entire ALL GRIMDARK ALL THE TIME, and NO FEMOIDS ALLOWED-shit that 40k consisted of was always retarded and violently homosexual.

>>64501707
I'd sort of agree, but part of the idea with these weapons is ease of making corrective shots.

>>64501874
>How are grunts supposed to target an object the size of a helmet flying and maneuvering at ~50-100kph with this heckin' chonker of a gun?
I think they're talking about the larger drones, those which people put stuff like multiple RPG18s and stuff on.

>A pump-action would be even better
Fuck that. If it's gonna be all manual, either make it a revolver launcher, or make it as American as possible with a lever action.

>>64502155
It's also godless. AFAIK the whole story is based on
>and there are no forces of good in the universe
>its all evil and there's no salvation... because... IT JUST IS THAT WAY OK CHUD

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>>64496035
Epstein list status?

>>64496035
If I needed confirmation that everything that I've ever expected about 40k fanboys being retarded faggots was true, this was it.

>>64502306
Being not cared about.

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>>64497421
>because they are pedophiles
Uhhhhh Epstein files? I'll take it if Bill Clinton is in there too. I just want pedophiles brought to justice, unlike you, I care about pedophilia regardless of party affiliation

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>>64502155
>The entire ALL GRIMDARK ALL THE TIME, and NO FEMOIDS ALLOWED-shit that 40k consisted of
That's a new thing. 40k used to be a goofy setting, see Orks, the old Cadbury Egg squats, and these things.

>>64502349
>That's a new thing
Nigger, please. Back when it was new and they were throwing all kinds of loony shit at the wall to see what would stick, 40k had chaos dwarves, hair-metal chaos marines, demon-worshiping biker gangs, hyper-intelligent space orangutans, lame-ass hobbits, etc.
All of that was slowly retconned out of the lore, or buried deep where only the biggest of 'sperg nerds would find it, and replaced with endless grimdark garbage to pander to the non-self aware edgelord crowd, who'd eat that shit up and spend all their money on wildly overpriced plastic miniatures and awful homoromance novels.
And when that wasn't profitable enough, GW invented a whole new pointless faction exclusively to pander to the weebs.
The last vestiges of wacky fun that ones made the franchise entertaining to any degree are now exclusively contained within the orc (No, fuck you GW, I won't abide with your trademark name buillshit) faction, which trash for completely other reasons.

40k is a bad franchise built on stolen IP, and peaked decades ago. It has slowly been rotting from within since then, with GW's blatant greed only becoming more terrible.
Playing or liking 40k is fine as long as you're using old-ass pirated books from the 80s or early 90s, and you're making your own models or buying unlicensed 3rd party shit.
But playing modern 40k, or paying money for any kind of 40k shit, and having a single penny of that money making it back to GW constitutes inexcusable and terminal faggotry.

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showing up late and the thread is kinda gay but what does this do that a milkor doesn't? caveat: i've not used 40mm grenades but i can imagine a situation where maybe you need them to come out faster than a single shot launcher, but do you really need to carry magazines instead of loose rounds?

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>>64502470
Reminder to US anons: PSA 11.5" AR is a better investment (and a better use of plastic) than 40K figurines.

>>64502130
>mission/doctrine issue
Yeah I understand what you are saying (testing regime early 2010s when U.S. Army was engaged in a specific tactical theatre) and maybe ? that contributed to some of those at-the-time-and-location Ranger reports, but no-knock CQB room clearing isn't the entire mission profile of either Rangers or U.S. Army infantry overall. (Idk why the Rangers alone solely themselves would have been issued/testing a brand new experimental grenade launcher either... unless it was intentional to skew the Army's own field test report/results in a certain direction)
Anyway the point is that, somehow the Army/Pentagon brass/MIC wanted to deliberately kabosh the XM25 by 'administrative decision authority' and they got their desired result.
Seems to me was a worthwhile system that not only could have been properly field tested and further effectively developed but also on line as a full U.S. combat arm a decade ago.
And see post immediately above (You)rs

>>64502291
>the larger drones
The larger 10"-12" FPVs are still a smaller-than-man-size target maneuvering at close to highway car speeds in the air. The next size group would be the heavy 6-8 rotor cargo copters carrying huge cameras, multi-shell drop setups or resupply packages. That would be a valid target... if it strayed into engagement range, where it becomes just as vulnerable to automatic rifle fire as it is to (theoretical) MV time-\sensor-fuzed grenades. But it's still a threat when it's way out beyond engagement range, because it's carrying a sensor package that enables high-precision fires on a fireteam\squad sized element that can't do shit to it in return. All in all, pretty narrow window of usefulness for a weapons system this complex and involved.

But then again, XM25 had already proved the validity of "infantry grenadier" concept way before small drones were a thing. Making PGS about drones is just a way for program owners to hop onto the latest R&D spending bandwagon.

>>64502497
High(er)-pressure and velocity, programmable rounds and the sighting\sensor integration to enable them.
Depending on the setup of the rounds, it may not be TOO complex to retrofit the drum with programming interface, but unlike the hi-lo UBGL shells that MGL is made for, MV grenades would develop serious chamber pressures, and then you're into making a proper revolver cylinder instead of a flimsy plastic drum, sealing it against the barrel to eliminate blowby... and you end up with a huge, overweight monstrosity that has none of MGL's benefits.
Rheinmetall SSW-40 just does it better: it's built from the ground up for semi-auto firing of MV shells, and then adds backwards-compatibility with old LV 40*46 inventory, as a treat.

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>>64502497
Even with MV, the rounds are slow and the trajectory is arc-ed. Also Milkors haven't been designed with programmable ammunition in mind.

I do like their MV capable single shot though

>>64499450
You're thinking of the 20mm.

>>64499688
When seconds count, fire support is only minutes away...

>>64502885
M32A1 is specifically built to handle MV grenades and has no issues with them.

>>64495945
spbp

>>64502885
>but unlike the hi-lo UBGL shells that MGL is made for, MV grenades would develop serious chamber pressures, and then you're into making a proper revolver cylinder instead of a flimsy plastic drum, sealing it against the barrel to eliminate blowby... and you end up with a huge, overweight monstrosity that has none of MGL's benefits.
>Rheinmetall SSW-40 just does it better: it's built from the ground up for semi-auto firing of MV shells, and then adds backwards-compatibility with old LV 40*46 inventory, as a treat.
Why would you go through the effort to type all this shit out about a subject you have 0 knowledge about?

>>64495972
I say this.

>>64499688
>your radio batteries are dead
>you are in hilly terrain
>you aren't priority of fire
but even if all thats not a problem, from the time of you keying your mic to start your nine line to rounds impacting (that you might have to bracket/adjust in) how many minutes will that be? And thats only if you get cleared to engage the target with whatever weapon system might (but might not be) be available. Things like NFAs, proximity to roads and other infrastructure, etc can mean you don’t get cleared. Also inside 600m is danger close. Closer than that and you better have memorized your REDs and pray that the 11C/13series weren’t up too late drinking and playing spades last night.
Vs
>take fire from berm in distance
>lase berm
>press trigger

>>64495933
ITS A BOLTER, FOR THE EMPEROR :D

>>64502470
>orc (No, fuck you GW, I won't abide with your trademark name buillshit) fact
"ork" is neither trademarked nor copyrighted.

>>64504574
>muh citrus caesar peed in muh cheerios
Never stop seething.
and Russiagate-HillBamaDawg began ten years ago, didn't stop him glownigger: nor did 07/13/2024 Butler, Pennsylvania

>>64502497
Semi autos are better than revolvers

>>64505348
revolvers are semi auto

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>>64505348
>>64505369

>>64497901
>Crimson Skies
God, I'd kill a man for a modern version. I wonder if it's still Microsoft sitting on the vidya rights like every other FASA tabletop game.

Seems like 30 mm would be a good compromise between size/weight, magazine depth, and effectiveness.

>>64496141
I like the barrel tipping of the Rheinmetall, it's both neat functionally and gives it an M79 aesthetic despite being mag-fed.

>>64497119
>>64496060
>>64495968
For once, it might not have been H&K being retards. The story goes that german law allows them to be prosecuted for being accessories to warcrimes under pretty loose definition of all of those terms, and there was rumbling that certain elements of the government were going to push for it.
Thats why they suddenly got a bee in their bonnet about getting a memorandum signed

>>64497605
>Those grenades were so fucking expensive, more than the cost of the XM25.

Stupid point to make. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you mean the whole loadout of grenades was worth more than the weapon, and you're not totally retarded. The XM25 was $30k to $35k, airburst grenades were about $1k each, and they carried 36 grenades, so $36k right? But no, because the load out included a bunch of significantly less capable and cheaper rounds.
But much more importantly, the rounds were that expensive because they were all hand-made by a sole-source, money-grabbing defense contractor. Once they went assembly line they were expected to drop literally 95% of the cost.

>>64502780
>Anyway the point is that, somehow the Army/Pentagon brass/MIC wanted to deliberately kabosh the XM25 by 'administrative decision authority' and they got their desired result.
That would be the Senate Armed Services Committee. Any one of half a dozen actions could have been taken to save the XM25 and they intentionally didn't (and arguably caused several of the issues). The Army itself advocated for it until the end, and pushed back hard on the OIG's report..
The "the tech wasn't ready back then" claims are just cope from people that either assume that decisions are made by governments for good reasons or that understand that you have to bullshit to distance this attempt from a now-tainted "failed" project, regardless of whether it "failed" for a good reason.

>>64507675
Probably this and good points.
(the more I think about what we've discussed and documented evidence/statements, XM25 is a banner example of MIC swamp grift graft and 'this is how we do things' corruption)

>>64499054
>>64499960
Double feed that results in some eyebrows getting burned probably.
>>64507675
>>64507725
They killed the program because of budget fuckery and MIC grifting. XM25 was too effective at killing dhurkas behind cover that they could waste PGM's and Javelins on. Don't know the source but wasn't it issued to 82nd in afghanistan who love it for its ability to absolutely dunk on dhurkas that were behind cover, ended engagement before they began and turned them in ground meat before they knew what happened. It was something ahead of its time and if I look at these new retarded proposals and their layout it seems obvious that somewhere, somehow some midwitted boomer fuck got together with his knucklehead retarded grifting buddies so they could win this contract instead of what was already designed.

Reading the defense papers on these there was a very clear pattern.
>couldn't replace primary infantry rifle
>made soldier a liability in the unit
>couldn't cover sectors
>weapon only intermittently useful
>overshadowed by crew served/mounted weapons in peak use-case.

The grenadier has a 40mm under-slung, critical capacity, the unit has 40mm. Behind them, MkII, automatic 25mm grenade launcher. kills an infinite number of zerg rushers.

So why an infantry airburst rifle? Not a rifle, not a 40mm direct fire. And the magazine was always problematic because it couldn't select fire between the myriad of ammo the system was billed with.Miklor on the other hand could, you could have smoke, HE, buckshot, all in the same cylinders and just manually cycle them, and for that reason it had far more utility then china lake or mag fed designs.

>>64497901
I want a modern port of it. Goddam, it was a cool game.

>>64507810
>killed the program because
I'm in agreement anon after our discussion itt

>too effective
>ahead of its time
I always (two decades ago) had that intuition about the XM25 despite relatively limited public information about it at that time.

The reason the US is pushing for this has nothing to do with drones, durkadurkas in cover or whatever. The chinks have a lightweight 35 mm magazine fed semi automatic grenade launcher that is carried and fired by one man. America wants an american variant of that weapon system. Thats all.

>>64509326
>35 mm
QLZ-04 is like a Mk 19
QLZ-87 is a piece of junk from the 1990s, not even in same universe as either XM29 or XM25

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>>64500295
MARS SRSS Mod 0 model. IMO the prettiest PGS contestant by far, and may very well prove to be the most functional, which is unfortunate since that means it won't get picked.

>>64509618
>QLZ-04 is like a Mk 19

Yes, but I was talking about QLZ-87/87B.

>>64509618
>QLZ-87 is a piece of junk from the 1990s,

Oh btw, the Mk19 is a fossil from the vietnam war. The original precursor to Mk19 was a hand cranked bitch of a weapon that fired grenades that were originally meant to be fired from a single shot launcher. That is why these grenates use rimmed cartridges. Then it was further developed into an auto launcher, but the rim was kept despite belt feeding, because this weapon was designed by a committe. And since the original application single shot grenade was for something with 300 meters range, the abysmally poor ballistic shape of the grenades didnt matter. The chink systems are way ahead of this fossil, and the chinks have refined the tech into something unique to them that America has no counterpart to, and that is why we get these grenade launcher developements.

>>64510561
>textwallblahblahblah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_GMG

>>64496035
>these replies
This place really is full of faggots.

>>64510946
that is a total of 6 sentences
your mind has been rotted by TikTok

>>64511029
No (You) stupid faggotfuck Plebbitard, it's that you're 55-IQ. <---That is the problem here
Go Back

(HK's launcher blows the entirety of China away all by itself)

>>64495943
It took me a second to realize that aimpoint is offset and not staring straight into the handguard. Why would they pick the biggest red dot?

>>64507817
>Reading the defense papers on these there was a very clear pattern.
By this did you mean rag "journalism" covering the program, because almost everything you said was utterly retarded.

>>64507645
We've told them for literal decades to get the fuck out of Germany because the Krauts are a bunch of faggots.
Kinda makes you wonder how much blackmail material the government has on HK chiefs....

Oh, it's that schizo again. Wonder if he knows the case is going to court?

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>>64510498

>>64510498
>>64513758
Unimpressive.

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The old 25mm ammo.

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Colt-NG PGS with a Smart Shooter FCS, maybe set up for drones.

>>64513784
I think it's pretty cool. A Barrett rep has said that the MARS SRSS will feel like shooting a .308 thanks to the dampened long recoil operation. NG has released footage of their PGS firing and it looks like it has about as much recoil as a 12 gauge, maybe a bit more.
I like the Barrett entry best. It meets the velocity requirements with a 30mm projectile. The FN is slow as fuck, and the Colt-NG might not have enough explosive fill/frag and there are no published velocity figures. Also the FN is a bit ugly and the NG is a little too alien-looking.

>>64496035
Nobody mentioned the giant orange faggot

>>64513758
Is the HEDP airbursting?

>>64513837
According to Army Recognition
>Ammunition development for the system has been led by AMTEC Corp and is described as a family of 30 mm projectiles that covers multiple tactical effects required by the PGS concept. The ammunition mix seems to include programmable airburst high-explosive rounds, proximity-fuzed and point-detonating high-explosive rounds, a Close Quarter Battle round for short-range antipersonnel use, counter-drone rounds tailored to defeat small UAS, and practice or inert training rounds. The program partners emphasize that the integrated fire-control unit programs the fuzes prior to firing so that airburst and proximity functions can be used effectively against targets behind cover and against aerial threats at close ranges. That combination of selectable munition effects, a flatter 30 mm trajectory, and reduced time of flight is presented as the principal enablers for counter-defilade and counter-UAS roles at the squad level. The partnered design effort, therefore, couples specific munition effects with the weapon and fire-control architecture.
HEDP is a potentially retarded choice, the priority has to be counter-defilade lethality. They can make another type of round for anti-armor and lightskinned vehicles, but this class of grenade seriously sucks for that anyway. That's what the CGs are for.
NG calls their main load HEAB, for high-explosive airburst, and says it's a dual warhead, so presumably also has an EFP.

>>64513811
XM25 seems to have shared this view >>64513887 by having two separate loads for CD and armor piercing.

>>64513758
my God so its basically a 30mm shotgun

>>64513815
They all suck, imo. XM25 was the bomb

>>64513811
checked

>>64513758
>anti-drone shot
>just a canister of birdshot
On one hand, I'm disappointed they didn't put some vaporware proximity-detonated HE-FRAG round there, and went with the sensible option.
On the other hand, I'm trying to imagine what would be the effective range and dispersion of canistered birdshot fired out of what is essentially an underpowered 3-gauge 12" rifled barrel, and it's not looking good.

On the gripping hand, imagine how much tungsten #00 buckshot fits in that CQB round and how it would pattern out of, again, 12" rifled barrel. Return Of The Trench Broom, anyone?

>>64502320
>*crickets*
Youre in the minority sadly

>>64502320
>>64516721
if ? (You) actually think there will be some kind of 'tribunal'—let alone one administered by U.S. gov—that brings every, or any, "elite" ruler billionaire trannypedo to justice, that will never ever ever ever ever ever ever occur. Ever
that's it that's all

>>64499440
I'm sure they offer different sizes, but it's 40mm. It's going to be a chunker even at low capacity.

>>64511052
>Why would they pick the biggest red dot
It's a big gun.

>>64496035
>All this seethe
Seems Anon’s post is the most accurate grenade launcher ITT. jej

>>64516744
checked, yeah while the Rheinmetall looks kino the 40 mm seems antiquated
thoughbeit if a 25 mm gets adopted, could still use those also on a low-procurement basis for the low velocity rounds

>>64516749
>>64516749
>>64516749
>>64516749

>>64509326
The Chink one seems to be for very long rang mountain warfare, the American one seems to be for flying robobutts and shit behind cover. They are only superficially similar, though that is enough for normalfags so maybe there is some truth to what you said.

>>64509326
>Implying the chinese are not the ones copying

You aren't fooling anyone wumao

>>64516813
If they are developing a HEAT projectile for use against stuff like UGVs then the 40mm will have a greater penetration capability because of how diameter affects explosive forming. Maybe you only have 3-5 rounds to a mag depending on just how many pigs you like to carry around with you but they have a bigger bang and you can make them do cooler stuff with more volume to work with.

>>64495933
Dude it’s a fucking bolter. That’s sick

>>64502497
>what does this do that a milkor doesn't?
It's a high velocity projectile to be used more like a rifle than for just tossing grenades over a wall.

>>64495933
Looks heavy

>>64495933
FIVE.. FUCKING.. ROUNDS!?
What is the fucking point?

>>64521425
Like, 10 rounds, i could understand. Maybe even 8. I was hoping for more like 15 or 20.

>>64502616
kys nofun faggot

>>64521649
It's some guy trying to force a meme about PSA 11.5s.

>>64521669
What a fucking faggot, he probably hasn't spend thousands on figures, fucking normalfag

>>64521757
I don't give a shit about figures I've never even played 40k I always thought tabletop games were for faggots.

>>64521779
gtfo newfag

Everyone knows that grenade launcher spam is OP in FPS games.

>>64498408
Based.

>>64510946
Yet another wumao trying to lull the US into complacency. Have you guys gotten a raise yet?

>>64495945
IT'S A BOLTER!
FOR THE EMPRAH!

>>64523089
Lose some weight Fatso you're supposed to be able to see your toes when looking down

>>64513758
>no HE round
Into le trash it goes

>>64523102
nigga capitalized fatso

>>64527426
for Emphasis

>>64524470
Thats what the HEDP round is for. It dual purpose.

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>>64499166
>Kraut space magic

Bullshit made up to excuse the necessity of putting ex nazis back into power in west Germany. Germans were less industrially advanced then the US was by the second half of the war. In aerospace they were never mord than near peers. We simply funded nukes over rockets. The US has always been ahead of Germany and it's revisionist bullshit to claim otherwise.

>>64530004
That is thee trash.
Low caliber rounds already have non impressive frag performance, going HEDP cuts it in half.

>>64510988
/k/ has been in the top 5 of the worst boards for almost a decade brushing shoulders with /trash/ and /r9k/. Just an insufferable group of anons.

>>64495933
I knew this would be the future when I realized how useful the RPG is in urban warfare

>>64530310
>Low caliber rounds already have non impressive frag performance, going HEDP cuts it in half.
20mm like OICW was insufficient. 25mm HE and HEAB was already fine in relatively accurate weapons like the XM25 and existing 30mm HEDP rounds have more than sufficient frag effect when you don't have to deal with shit 40mm-tier dispersion.
The bigger issue is actually demonstrating HEAB capability.

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>>64533032
>d existing 30mm HEDP rounds have more than sufficient frag effect
Dude please look at pathetic size of this warhead

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7 KB JPG

>>64533069
Actually yeah, you're right. I stand by the XM25s HEAB performing fine, but that is excessive. Even the experimental 30x29 HEDP had a better payload.
>pic unrelated HEDP for the M230.

>>64530241
Bitch please
We all know the allies were down bad for german scientists.
Its no even a secret.

>>64530241
Wrong.