>>64520520
Does not surprise me. Colombians love their deltas. Should have bought the Rafale in my opinion, though.

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Swedish win!

Made in brazil, so brazil wins again.

>>64520520
Delivered by 2050!

>>64520607
> Deliveries are scheduled between 2027 and 2032

>>64520597
Too expensive, Gripen was their best choice.

Alternatively they could've gone for J-10/JF-17.

>>64520597
The Rafale is doomed, even if it hadn't taken a reputational hit, it's way too expensive for anyone who would want to buy new jets for the foreseeable future and isnt just waiting for better stealth options. The French need to somehow come up with a way to shit out planes for cheap or develop an actual budget alternative.

>>64520670 Why would Columbia buy west taiwan crap?

>>64520678
Because they can't afford Rafales and their president hates Trump to a comical level.

So you either get Gripens or Jeffs.

>>64520625
Yeah, considering that Sweden is going to do a massive upgrade to Gripen E, which requires airframe modifications, and Ukraine also wants some, and Brazil recently got their production in order, it's not too off that it'll be there by the 2030s at the latest.

>>64520597
Rafale, Typhoon, and F-15EX are all too expensive, might as well buy F-35s at that point. Gripen and F-16V are the only "cheap" fighters worth buying, so if F-16 isn't an option you're going to be buying Gripen.

Canada also in talks for Gripen E.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-saab-ceo-michael-johansson-gripen-fighter-jets-defence-canada/

>>64520684
The volume is a bonus because they can scale very fast.

>>64520688
They can't fight the US anyway so Gripen good enough for anything else.

>>64520696 LOL Canada is so stupid wasting time on getting new fighter jets.

Embraer certified Gripen E for refueling with the C-390.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt-BTidap0k

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This song goes out to the American military industry complex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trWlSCse8Qc

>>64520520
>colombia bought new fighters before peru
lmao

>>64520605
That’s not 100% confirmed, none of the South American countries that are interested in the Gripen want their jets made in Brazil out of fear they add some back end bug they can activate in case they ever go to war against them. Peru at least specified that they wouldn’t buy Gripen if it was made in Brazil.

>>64521202
Earlier reports on this deal were specifically playing up the made in brazil aspect.

And they said we were washed up, SAABs, just look at us now

Based.

>>64520597
>Rafale
got lmao 1 shot by paki's flying chink shitboxes three times
c'est fini

>>64520683
you can still get sanctioned if you operate the Gripen tho

>>64524692
Not if they choose to have European engines.

>>64524752
afaik the US can still control the proliferation of licence built engines

>>64524767
Yes and no. Both and neither.
It's a complex issue.
It depends on how much the engine is built locally VS how much is imported. And on how big of a diplomatic/legal hit the licensed manufacture, or their country's government is willing to handle.
If the licensee has the capability to build the entire engine buy themselves without sourcing parts from the US, then the US government can't do much more than seethe as the intellectual property holders for the original engine design seethe and launch countless pointless lawsuits.

For example, take into consideration a western or pro-western country, with a high degree of industrial development, France, Britain, Germany, Sweden, etc, that has the tech and industry to make perfect copies of the latest 'murrican engines.
If they've got the technical data pack for the 'murrican engines, they can make them. Sometimes they even make their own improved versions. Even if they don't have all the specs, they can illicitly reverse-engineer them.

If the US government objects to the export of cloned/modified engines made in another country, they can object and try to block exports.
If the countries/companies making these clone/derivative engines chooses to listen is another question.
This is where countries have to weigh potential benefits and costs on a case-by-case basis.
They'll choose whichever option benefits them the most. It may be conceding to the US, it may be ignoring the US.
TL;DR, there is no direct universal answer.
The US gov can try to control exports of cloned engines, but there's by no mans any guarantee that their attempts will be successful.

>>64524752
Gripen doesn't have european engines.

It uses the SAAB RM16 which is just a GE F414 assembled in sweden.

The actual turbine core is still produced in the US, then shipped to sweden for final assembly and integration into the Gripen.

For example, with Brazilian produced Gripens, the engines aren't sent to Sweden, they're sent directly from GE in the US, to Brazil.

>>64524864
They're not cloned engines, the engine is still produced by GE in the US and then sent to sweden (or brazil).

>>64524872
I don't know about the HUEHUEs, but the Sweedistanis have been making clones and improved version of older GE engines, completely from scratch, with zero US provided parts for the last 30 years.
If they were willing to blatanty spit in the face of GE and the US government, they could probably make unlicensed clones of the F404 given a few years of R&D and reverse engineering.

>>64524929
Go ahead and post your proof my guy.

AFAIK, everything Sweden makes is under license from the US and is subject to export restrictions.

>>64525006
>AFAIK, everything Sweden makes is under license from the US and is subject to export restrictions.
I never said otherwise. The fact remains that they still make these things themselves, in Sweden. They don't just assemble US-made parts kits.
The experts and machines used to manufacture these engines wouldn't magically evaporate if the Swedes decided to violate the contracts and manufacture engines in violation of US export restrictions.
IF, and I reiterate, IF, the Swedes wanted to make copies of the F404. There's no real reason that they wouldn't be able to do so.
They already have original F404 engines they can study and reverse-engineer, they have all the experts and industrial resources needed to make modern jet engines from scratch.
It would piss off the US gov and GE something fierce, but it would be completely within their capabilities.

>>64525038
Sorry kiddo, but you're wrong.

GE still provides the turbine blades and other critical components to sweden, they're not produced domestically, even for the F404.

>>64525038
Sweden only ever produced ~35% of the F404 components. The other 65% came from GE in the US.

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>>64525006
>AFAIK, everything Sweden makes is under license from the US and is subject to export restrictions.
>>64525088
>GE still provides the turbine blades and other critical components to sweden, they're not produced domestically, even for the F404.

Gripens use US F18 engines/components on license soooooooooo guess what that means????

>>64520520
>4.5 b
>17 units
>each 250 million

lmao, meanwhile the F-35 is 70 million each.

>>64524929
>completely from scratch, with zero US provided parts for the last 30 years.

No they are licensed, and Sweden cannot make single crystal turbine blades.

>>64525088
>>64525102
Stop trying to put words in my mouth, you fucking faggots!
I said that OLDER General Electric designs have been manufactured in-house by the Swedes, and the Swedes have F404 engines made by GE in their possession.
It's not by any means absurd or far-fetched to imagine that the Swedes COULD make their own F404 clones if the US government were to throw a hissyfit about exports, prompting the Swedes to just ignore the export restrictions and make illicit clones of F404 engines.
Wouldn't be the first time they did something like that. Way back during WWII they manufactured unlicensed clones of Pratt & Whitney radial engines that were (supposedly) better than the originals.

>gripen mentioned
time for some yankee seethe

>>64525141
and when you add in the weapons, maintence and spare parts (lmao) the cost doubles

>>64525169
>and when you add in the weapons, maintence and spare parts (lmao) the cost doubles

>140 million?

Still cheaper than the copgripen

>>64525154
>hes just BEGGING to have the kill-switch flipped

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>>64525185
>Still cheaper than the copgripen

i guess the idea is, parts exist to keep the gripen in the air, not so much for the f35, which pretty much stays parked

>>64525185
Go huff some more hydrazine, Locksmart shill.
You are you even here? You're procrastinating and avoiding your real work, you have to go and distribute millions in bribes to ensure that someone will buy your company's shitty planes.

>>64525205
>incomplete kit
Where's the Saddam?

>>64520878
Peru can't decide if it wants Gripens fast or if they want to wait for 5 years to start making parts for the KF21 locally.

Realistically Peru will order a few Gripens then in a decade recieve the KF21

>>64525250
>Expectation: KF-21 made in Peru
>Reality: FA-50 with gimped AMRAAMs because US doesn't trust them

>>64525150
>It's not by any means absurd or far-fetched to imagine that the Swedes COULD make their own F404 clones
it is because they still rely on engine components sourced from the US, basing your point on Swedes copying a WWII prop engine to them copying a modern day jet engine is retarded

>>64525150
So because they've done engines totally unrelated to modern fighter jet engines like the F404/F414, you magically think they COULD produce modern F404 equivalent clones fully domestically?

How does that logic even make sense?

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>>64520605
>>64521202
What's going on with the FS2020 and Brazil? A big reason why Brazil selected the Gripen was because they wanted to eventually produce a stealthy derivative by the 2030s.

Does anyone know anything about it? Last claim I heard was from like 2017 and they wanted to introduce it before 2040 but there has been literally not a single word about it.

Normally I'd say that means it's dead but Brazil is extremely opaque about this shit. They just vaguely stated they wanted a fire support vehicle then out of the blue announced they're building the Centauro 120 locally.

>>64525260
Peru never planned to build the KF21. They will be making fuselage parts for the second stealthy tranche IIRC.

>>64525277
>>64525325
Fucking Locksmart shills again trying to misrepresent my arguments.
The side note about he Swedes copying P&W engines back during WWII was by no means in related to the current day industrial capability.
Just general intent and mentality. It was an example to prove the point that Swedes did disregard intellectual property laws and export restrictions in the past when they thought that it would benefit them.
There's no reason to believe they wouldn't do it again if the US government started getting excessively pissy about engine exports.

>you magically think they COULD produce modern F404 equivalent clones fully domestically?
Not because they copied piston engines back in WWII.
Because they've built their own last-gen jet engines for the last 40 years.
>But, But, muh monocrystaline hyper-alloy turbine blades!!!
The britbongs figured that shit out 70 years ago, and even the stalin-era soviets could rapidly copy it within a few years, aided by industrial espionage and pinko politicians in the UK.
There's no reason to believe that it would magically be beyond the capabilities of a modern and highly industrialized first world nation to start domestic production of such components given sufficient incentive and a few years to set up a production line.

>>64524864
Least schizoid and delusional boomer

>>64525389
There was recent news and a name change

KFS, or Koncept för Framtida Stridsflyg. SAAB recently got a ~$258M contract for conceptual studies on a new fighter for sweden.


>>64525401
>There's no reason to believe that it would magically be beyond the capabilities of a modern and highly industrialized first world nation to start domestic production of such components given sufficient incentive and a few years to set up a production line.
You mean besides the mountains of evidence to the contrary?

China, Turkey, South Korea, India. Out of them all, only China has managed to do it, and it took them 25 years and 10s if not 100s of billions of dollars.

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>>64525401
>Because they've built their own last-gen jet engines for the last 40 years.
No, they've ASSEMBLED US engines for the last 40 years.

They only manufactured ~35% of the parts, and not parts from the much more technically complex "hot section" of the engine.

You're making a massive leap in assuming this is trivial, it would take sweden a decade or two at BEST if they could even do it at all.

>>64525412
Thank you. The Brazilian air force is acting like it's still going to happen but has said nothing about the details for years now.

>>64525422
They're still years away, but it's looking like they'll most likely try to go for an updated Gripen wth a new stealth airframe and a drone wingman program to complement it.

A good "affordable" option for the 2050s and beyond, though it's obviously not going to try to compete directly against the F-47/GCAP/FCAS in scope/capabilities.

>>64525420
Unironically they'll just use Eurojet, RR, or Turk engines if the the GE clone gets blocked. They already talking about sticking Eurojet engines in Brazilian made Gripens for Mexico a few years back.

>>64525401
This. Sweden should just anger the US, making sure they will never get any intellectual property again and just keep using Volvo jet engines from the 50s or something. Those were Better than this new zoomer shit anyways, real jet engines smoke!

>>64525434
US can block the sale regardless if they wanted to, like 25-30% of the Gripen is using US tech or parts sourced from US companies, not including the engine.

So even if you put the EJ230 in there if the US really wanted to start shit, they could still with other components/sensors.

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>>64525462
The Brazilian models replaced most US components other than the engine.

>>64525462
The only problem France had with an unapproved sale was TERCOM (SCALP-EG).

>>64525477
There are still almost assuredly microchips and similar component parts using US ITAR-controlled IP that could be used as justification if the US wanted to do so.

>>64525498
By that logic the Chinese could cancel the F35 because of PCBs made in Shenzhen

>>64525505
Wow you really know how ITAR restrictions work huh?

>>64525665
Do you understand that if the engine is replaced, then Brazilian Gripens will feature no content that can be blocked via US ITAR claims? They spent years selecting different, often times more expensive parts specifically for that purpose.

>>64520520
lmao, with what engines?

>>64525498
There aren't.

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I got some more info on some of the specifics of the contract.

1. After a serious negotiation process that began with an initial offer of 16 aircraft, it was possible to acquire 17 aircraft with the same budget, plus an option to purchase one additional unit, while maintaining the original conditions of the contract.

2. The contract was signed at fixed prices in order to shield the national budget from potential fluctuations due to inflation and market prices, which means that such risks are assumed by the contractor. The total cost of the acquisition is 3.135 billion euros, to be executed over the next seven years, in accordance with the budgetary authorizations and macroeconomic projections of the Ministry of Finance and Public Credit.

3. In addition, a modern simulation center will be installed in the country, consisting of four interconnected cockpits, which will allow for both individual and coordinated multi-aircraft training under advanced tactical scenarios.

4. The contract includes a complete air-to-air weapons package, consisting of smart short-, medium-, and long-range missiles, as well as smart air-to-ground and surface-attack capabilities that provide the country with highly deterrent, differentiating elements. The acquisition includes the integration of these new weapons into the aircraft, along with conventional armament. (Keep in mind each Meteor costs around $2 million USD)

5. To ensure operational sustainability, the agreement includes comprehensive logistical support for 3,000 flight hours, guaranteeing aircraft readiness from the beginning of operations, projected for 2027, through the year 2032.

(Not the actual livery)

>>64525734
what brazilian jet engine can replace the US one then retard?

>>64525498
>US ITAR
God i hate working with ITAR. Even reusing a component from a 1960's M113 can trigger ITAR-related issues

>>64526071
It's already been said multiple times ITT that they plan to fit it with Eurojet engines if the US blocks the Volvo/GE design.

>>64526337
Volvo is chink owned, why would they care what the USA says?

>>64526354
Wrong Volvo, kid

>>64525462
Sure US can block sales but why would they?
US gains money from sales of parts (GE's engines for example) and it would be detrimental to their reputation.
The orange monkey has already undermined US relations to an unfathomable degree. Any more and the MIC will throw a hissyfit

>>64520684
Will this upgrade involve an EJ200 option?

>>64525427
>They're still years away, but it's looking like they'll most likely try to go for an updated Gripen wth a new stealth airframe and a drone wingman program to complement it.


You cant make a stealth fighter without an internal weapons bay and Gripen is seriously gimped by its single tiny engine.

>>64525477
>The Brazilian models replaced most US components other than the engine.

lmao, so the part with the ally-switch... got it!

>>64526556
>The orange monkey has already undermined US relations to an unfathomable degree
no he hasnt
absolutely no vassal the US has provides any real value outside of soil for US airforce bases

thats it
>vassal provides soil
the end
no other part of the relationship is actually a tangible national benefit for the US

>>64526851
whats the weather like in st pidorsburg right now

>>64526863
Im an American in Ohio and its un-seasonably warm this weekend, good time to mow leaves

vassal attitudes have become so uppity and insufferable lately, its time for some kind of collective-'check' on them.

yall need to pipe down and get back in your seats
all this frothing at the mouth over Russia has you guys so overstimulated you think youre some kind of 'power' or something like its the 1800's again

>>64526921
As an american born in ohio (but thankfully escaped), grow the fuck up retard.

The US is not in a post-WWII world where the US reigns supreme uncontested across the globe.


The US is fucking over our allies for MINIMAL (if any) benefit.

The US gets nothing (well, you get to feel smug about it, but it's misplaced) out of this but making sure our former allies stop relying on US technology and US trade.

Wow, great, now we've ASSURED the US's fall from dominance into the 2050s and beyond, great. Thanks for that.

>>64526942
"allies" provide value, of which the US has *NONE*

the US will not fall from any 'dominance' on account of rocking arrogant narcissist european nations in their faces. absolutely nothing about europe provides any future dominance nothing

if anything, divesting from europe will finally free the US to become a 21st century superpower ( we can simply operate from greenland)

problem solved, euros can sit and spin

>>64526942
As an American that's thankfully never been to Ohio, I don't have many good things to say about Trump but forcing US allies to rearm is a good thing. All of Europe has been completely useless for decades, what's the point of having allies if they're too weak to provide any meaningful support?

>>64526959
Havnig allies re-arm is great, but we should be trying to get them to re-arm with US-produced goods, or license-built US tech.

Instead we're convincing all of our allies to try and do it themselves without the US technology that ties them closer to us.

>>64526959
europe belongs on all 4's barking like a dog

the days of playing pretend-superpower are over,
century of humiliation for the brussels homos is in order

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>>64526967
>Instead we're convincing all of our allies to try and do it themselves
LMAO, nothing could possibly be more hilarious than to watch a bunch of uppity shit eating girl-bosses spend the next two decades in meetings fellating power point slides about theoretical fighter jets and tanks that their entire collective fundamentally could not produce nor has the metal or oil if their lives depended on it

the thought is gut-busting hilarious
>PIC RELATED
leave the game&theory to kaja! shes got the long-term syllabus for euro success stuffed up her taco, just give her a minute to shart it out

>>64526985
>>64526970
The complete lack of logical thinking here is impressive, I must admit.

Jingoism is akin to retardation.

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>>64526988
>Jingoism is akin to retardation.

>>64526993
>pointing out war crimes of a war criminal is jingoism
lol

lmao even

You're clearly a master debater.

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>>64526997
>>64526997
>pointing out war crimes of a war criminal is jingoism
ok thats it

im talking to the REAL gunther arent I..?

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>>64527012
Even AI recognizes it

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>>64527035
>they filter anonymous, flagless, id-less posts through AI for identifying criteria

>>64527044
You're the only rabid jingoist, it doesn't exactly take rocket surgery to figure this one out.

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>>64527053
>im a rabid jingoist for pointing out europe is a valueless castrated enuch

you uppity vassals need your mouths washed out with soap

>>64527055
I'm still an American born in Ohio, moron.

I just thankfully had much better education growing up and wasn't influenced too heavily by my Ohio upbringing.

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>>64527062
lmao, im from Indiana anyway you dipshit rookie

ill be back when the shift changes happens
you fucking suck at your job, and the other airmen are infinititely more entertaining than you faggot nigger
>"youre a muh jingoist!"
>"i filtered your post through AI and it agrees!"

i would pay at least $29.99 to neftlix, DAZN or WWE Network to watch you get mauled by wild animals on PPV Roman style

>>64525389
>What's going on with the FS2020 and Brazil? A big reason why Brazil selected the Gripen was because they wanted to eventually produce a stealthy derivative by the 2030s.

brazil can barely afford their current order, so that sounds like bs to me. Any actual source for that claim?

>>64525412
KFS is a new conceptual/demonstrator program that started in like 2023, its got nothing to do with FS2020, which predated the selection of Gripen E.

Is airman posting a peoduct of schizophrenia or delusions

>>64527225
>KFS is a new conceptual/demonstrator program that started in like 2023, its got nothing to do with FS2020, which predated the selection of Gripen E.
KFS is literally the next step of FS2020 moron.

>>64526967
They're still buying US equipment, and the only reason they're not buying even more US equipment is because of production limitations and not wanting to wait for multi-decade lead times.

Also your idea of "US technology tying them closer to us" is literally just wanting to hold US supply chains over their heads as a means to control them. You're openly endorsing the (figurative) F-35 kill switch narrative, which is exactly the reason why those countries are trying to develop their own domestic hardware, which is a good thing because self sufficient allies are strong allies, and strong allies are good allies.

>>64527326
you got a source for that

>>64520520
So did Sweden stop with the retarded, "we won't sell to you if you're a war" shit?

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>>64527667
I am not that anon, but I asked the AI and it seems to agree.

I tried not to lead it with my prompt, but feel free to ask it yourself.

>>64527861
Yep. That policy was "suspended" in '22-23, formally being scrapped in '24-'25. The zigger invasion of Ukraine killed that retardation.
Still, the policy change didn't stop a handful of commie peacenik politicians from throwing a big hissyfit on social media when the Thais used gripens to bomb cambodians (in a retarded fight that the cambodians started), which was then promptly misrepresented in fake news as some kind of official or unofficial opinion of the Swedish government. It was never any kind of policy, just a handful of irrelevant pinkos and environmentalists, with no power to speak of, getting their panties in a twist.

>>64527241
Schizophrenia causes delusions, so yes

>>64527667
Why would they need two concurrent programs?

what is it with swedish weapon manufactoring that just sends this board into a schizophrenic shitshow? I swear it's every thread

>>64528260
they are not. flygsystem 2020 was a program that ran in the early 2010's, that project died when sweden decided it was too expensive and went with gripen E instead in 2014.

>>64530692
Lol you're delusional Flygsystem was being discussed publicly by SAAB and the Swedish government as recently as 2024.

The SAAB 2024 press release announcing they were being asked to do conceptual designs for a new fighter straight up said it was an extension/continuation from Flygsystem2020 studies.
That was reaffirmed in the recent KFS announcement as this is the formal name for the conceptual design program SAAB was given a contract for last year, which again, SAAB themselves said was an extension of the Flygsystem2020 program.

We also know when they joined the UK Tempest program as an observing member Sweden straight up said they might not join/buy tempest, but the concepts could be adapted to Flygsystem2020, and it was being referenced as an ongoing current program as of 2019, so your 2014 date is pure bollocks.

>>64520696
Damn how retarded

>>64530904
The idea is likely to buy a small number of F-35s (16-24) and then ~60 or so Gripen Es.

>>64530664
Vatniks and Amerimutts coping. (Sometimes they're the same)

>>64525250
>start making parts for the KF21 locally.
Damn, I didn't Peru was like that

>>64521202
Peru has had occasional border clashes with its neighbors, including Brazil.

>>64532194
Peru never had a clash with Brazil, wtf you're talking about?

>>64527035
fag

>>64532295
Peru has had wars with every single one of its neighbors at one or another time in its history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Peru

>>64530877
post a source fag

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>>64533116
Peru is historically the most violent country of the entire region, they had the moche culture which was the local equivalent of the aztecs, and then the incas conquered most of the andean world through military operations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Inca_Empire

Genocidal operations akin to what happened during the paraguayan war wasn't uncommon in precolombian south america.

>>64533133
I literally told you the sources, you just needed to look them up yourself to verify.

You're not going to find a nice and neat timeline published by the Swedish government, this was an internal secret conceptual program that was running for over a decade. But reading what is out there paints a clear picture.

FS2020 was around in the early 2010s as you say, the media silence afterwards and the Gripen E development does NOT mean FS2020 died or was canceled, it was simply happening in the background (as it was a program studying future needs, not a program for building a new jet (yet)).
FS2020 continued quietly fully internally within the Swedish defense material administration (Försvarets materielverk or FMV) and SAAB.
In July 2019 Sweden announced they would join the UKs (FCAS) Tempest program as an observer, with a SAAB representative at a defense trade show essentially saying they (Sweden) might not buy Tempest but that the concepts being developed for Tempest could be introduced to FS2020.
In late 2022 when Japan joined Tempest and it became GCAP, Sweden decided to leave the program, within several months they announced they would be starting the conceptual design phase for a new jet (remember FS2020 was a program to study new developments for a new fighter, this next step was to create a conceptual design for a new fighter).
In 2024 SAAB announced they had a 2 year contract (2024-2025) for the conceptual design phase following from Flygsystem 2020 that could get extensions, in October 2025 the program was officially unveiled as the KFS program or Koncept för Framtida Stridsflyg (Future Combat Aviation Concept).

Argue all you want that Sweden didn't hand hold your way through one of their top secret defense program's lineage, but the evidence is there if you care to look for it.

>>64530664
Swedish tech is just based on "it just works" at a low price point instead of flashy spec sheets that mostly aren't even accurate. Sure they're not the fanciest, high tech or expensive models out there but most countries don't need that. Here in the US we want the most expensive toys we can get so we can be superior to everyone else and russia is just coping that they can't produce anything close to us. Sweden fills the gap for countries with a smaller budget.

>>64533604
>UKs (FCAS) Tempest program
Thank God they changed it to GCAP.

We didn't need two FCAS programs.

>>64533710
The french/german one died, so FCAS is available as a name again.

you motherfuckers complain all the time how every modern rifle platform has become ar-15 derived and there is no variety and its boring
yet you screech louder than anyone when someone tries to find success with a fighter jet that isn't american or russian
leave sweden alone damn it

>>64525250
Wasn't Peru in talks to for a couple of Erieyes awacs as well?

>>64534485
They dont have the money for 12 Fighters, you really expect them to get 2 AWACs, LMAO. They can talk all they want, doesnt mean itll become a reality.

>>64534674
Realistically they talk about it on the off chance Sweden wants to offer them a nice loan deal.

>>64526967
>Instead we're convincing all of our allies to try and do it themselves without the US technology that ties them closer to us.
Good. The US MIC has long been on decline and needed a kick in the balls to either wake up or roll over and die so that smaller, more agile companies can take its place

Redpill me on Gripen. Why are so many countries buying it?

>>64535939
Relatively cheap, easy to maintain, and relatively low risk of having the export sale banned by the US unless you've really pissed them off.

They're also designed/built to be capable of operating from austere runways or even highways if needs be.

A brand new F-16V is probably better if you have access to US munitions and spare parts, but for those less friendly with the US (but not enemies of the US either) the Gripen offers solid performance with a good range of European munitions integrated so you can operate without the US needing to supply AMRAAMs.

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>>64526985
>Be maritime power that relies deeply on global trade for continued wealth and influence
>Alienate all trading partners
>Rising power in the East explicitly gearing up to pick a fight with you in their own backyard
>They can outmanufacture you worse than 10:1
>Luckily you have a larger more experienced standing force that can pivot to deal with this, especially if released from their current duties keeping trade which you rely upon moving
>Alienate all those allies so they're less likely to pick up those duties for you, thus tying down more of your forces in the Atlantic, further tilting the scales in the wrong direction

Hubris finna kill a nigga.

>>64535976
I would argue F-16V is worse in every way to the Gripen E, especially if youre an export customer.

Gripen E has a steerable AESA radar, F-16V doesnt.

Gripen E has an integrated IRST, F-16V doesnt, it has a massive draggy pod that limits it G wise to 7.33.

Gripen E gets Meteor which is better than AIM-120D3 and the US doesnt export D3s to thirdies so if you buy F-16V you get C7 or C8 AMRAAM.

Gripen E is probe and drogue which is much more common and cheaper to buy than F-16s boom and receptical.

Cockpit design wise Gripen E is better.

etc.

>>64538169
that good and all but you'll get a f16v in a year and a gripen in 3

>>64538169
>Gripen E has a steerable AESA radar, F-16V doesnt.
AESA is literally the thing that makes it a V.

>>64535939
Less maintenance heavy, ability to take off/land on highways/rough impromptu runways, non-us aircraft that will have approximately 4 manufacturing facilities producing them if the deals with Canada and Ukraine go through (making delivery times shorter and costs cheaper), NATO compliant, as well

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>>64538374
Not steerable.

>>64527075
You're just dumb and your takes are irrelevant to furthering any sort of understanding or useful conclusions.

>>64538329
LMAO what, the wait time for Block 70 is 6-8 years right now.

>>64538374
Both have AESA, but the AESA on the Gripen E is on a moveable base, while on the F-16 its on a fixed base.

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>>64538802
Kek Gemini 3.0 is actually not bad for this shit.

>>64538838
>>64538802
you got any source for this other than aislop?

>>64539188
The AI slop sources basically cited lockheed saying it's gonna take time before they can ramp up production beyond what it currently is and that they already have firm orders for the next ~5 years or so of production capacity.

>>64539196
post the source then, for both those production order and rates

>>64539188
https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article30.html

Bahrain ordered the Block 70s in 2017 and got the first in 2023. Thats 6 years incase you math is bad.

>>64539217
https://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article19.html

Taiwan ordered theirs in 2019 and still havent gotten the first one. Thats 6.5 years.

>>64539217
https://simpleflying.com/how-many-fighter-jets-lockheed-martin-produce-annually/
> In 2024, Lockheed Martin delivered ... 16 F-16s
> By 2025, the company aims to hand over ... roughly 23–26 F-16s
> The revitalized F-16 line in Greenville, South Carolina, spans about 1.2 million sq ft over 16 hangars, recently augmented with new warehouses and run-shelters to prepare for a climb from single-digit yearly deliveries in 2023 to a steady four jets per month (48 per year) by late 2025.
Which considering it currently IS late 2025 and they're only expected to deliver 23-26 means they're well short of their goal.

https://turdef.com/article/turkiye-to-receive-first-f-16-viper-in-mid-2027-earliest
>Burnett said the factory is in the final stages of meeting its production rate target of four aircraft per month and that there is currently a “queue” of 122 aircraft for a total of six countries. Deliveries of the 122 aircraft will take three years to complete, which means that if the Turkish contract is signed today, the delivery of the first aircraft cannot be earlier than mid-2027.
The current queue as it stands today is about 170 aircraft.

If it was gonna be 3 years for 122 aircraft (and that was optimistic as we already discussed they're only delivering ~26 in 2025, not the projected 48), then it's gonna be at least 4-5 years for 170 jets, and likely closer to 6 years. So any new order today would likely be at BEST getting deliveries in ~5 years, and potentially not for 6+ years.

>>64520625
>receiving your mediocre jet 2-7 years after you bought it so it's also fully obsolete
waow

>>64530908
Good idea, when things go hot with China the Canadian pilots can attrit missiles for the USAF, USN, and ANG.

>>64540872
I mean, they'd be doing that anyway even if they were in F-35s since the canadian pilots would likely have less flight hours than their US counterparts.

Average USAF fighter pilots are hitting (on average) 200 hours per year with a stated minimum goal of 180 hours.

An average RCAF fighter pilot is hard to nail down an average, but we know the RCAF target is 140 hours and many CF-18 pilots don't reach that target figure with some reports saying they've gotten as few as ~50-60 hours in a year, though most reports indicate closer to 100-130 hours on average, still well below the 200 hour figure USAF fighter pilots average.

>>64539239
>>64539247
>>64539261
from what I found, seems similar to gripen e rates

>>64541224
Yes but Sweden has less orders to fufill and has spaced out their deliveries to ensure they CAN add another customer to the current workload and still start deliveries within 3 years.

They're also expanding the Swedish main production facility, the Brazilian facility, and if Canada agrees to purchase they're talking about a Canadian plant as well.

>>64541224
My math aint great but 2.5 years does not "seem similar" to 6-8 years

>>64541289
He's arguing that both production lines currently produce ~24-26 airframes per year, and thus based on THAT alone, surely you can get deliveries at the same (or similar) time.

In other words, he's a retard.

With Columbia's purchase and Ukraine's theorical purchase of ~150 Gripen, does Saab now have enough money to create a new jet fighter?

>>64541420
SAAB isn't really the one paying for it at the end of the day.

>>64541423
Let me write it again plainly for disingenious retards like you: (when) will there be a successor to the Gripen?

>>64541424
SAAB was greenlit to start on the KFS program last year with a 1 year contract that was to run from 2024-2025 with the possibility of an extension. The $$ for this contract was not announced. SAAB was then given a 2 year extension for 2025-2027 at $276M.

This project is envisioned to lead to a design decision sometime around 2030 with production to start in the late 2030s after a prototype period in the early 2030s. Entry to service would likely be late 2030s or early 2040s.

Redpill me on SAAB stock. How much of their business is defense vs cars? And when will they list in the US? Now that they're becoming a bigger company.

>>64520605
Imagine operating an aircraft assembled by Brazilians...terrifying stuff.

>>64541640
Wait until you see the people working the Boeing LM production lines.

>>64541486
SAAB doesn't make cars anymore and the SAAB group spun off the automotive division with GM in the '90s before GM bought the rest from SAAB AB in 2000.

>>64541640
Embraer is Brazilian and they make good stuff.

Didn't it get the US veto?

>>64544480
not yet, and often the US will let a country know they're going to veto BEFORE the contract gets signed, and sweden and columbia signed the contract, so sweden likely asked the US first.

>>64541640
BR planes actually have impeccable safety history, except when flying over Russia for some reason.

>>64532127
It's just part of the fuselage and we'll see if they can pull it off given it would be a first for Peru. So far it's all announcements.