Can you really kill a guy with an old fashion sling shot?
>>64549618If you can hit them with it
>>64549618>can you really kill someone by hitting them in the head with a rockYes. Our ancestors did it for hundreds of thousands of years.
>>64549618Yes. There is a great deal of historical attestation from its use in military conflicts. Also there are also videos on youtube of guys punching holes in 1/2" plywood. The human skull isn't nearly as tough as plywood.
>>6454961845 acp. Weighing 255 grains travels around 830-960 fps.Median weight for slinging rock is around 4000 grains and travels around 150-300 fps depending on the capability of the user.I got baldraic slinging all the time and could kill someone with a frozen egg leaving the strangest crime scene in the world
>>64549856Sauce on 4000? I see more like up to 1000 grains>>64549618And for OP; easily. Romans used lead and drilled them to whistle for syppresion effect. You can maim a man at several hundred yards and hit point targets with enough practice or chuck multiple projectiles at grouped infantry.David easily had the advantage against Goliath.
>>64549618Just chucking a rock or chunk of lead at someone's face can already kill, a sling only amplifies the velocityhttps://youtu.be/WHyK6r1Jbng?si=yJiHgHKg7Nyz_32IDavid was a shepherd and would have had plenty of time to get deadly accurate, dude in the video is hitting tennis balls out of the air, a headshot on a big guy would probably be easy
>>64549874Not him but from my old timey books the weights could vary from about 25-30gm on the smallest side all the way up to 500gm or a bit over a pound. Most of the classical era of Greek and Roman times it was somewhere in the 100-300gm range for killing people in times of war. Fancy people used cast lead which was best but expensive, some just found river rocks that would do and there was a lot of baked clay with stones in them as well they'd just make around the camp fire.In any case, being beaned by some fist sized rock traveling at sanic as fuck speed is probably going to kill someone, hits to the body, limbs is breaking bones and making them 'combat ineffective' is also probably 'good enough' as well to make it worth the effort. You'd sort of hope to have a shield and then hope the murderous little cunts throwing rocks don't aim for your knees and dick
>>64549618>will a large rock flung at REALLY fast speeds kill a manThe world may never know
>>64549618Yes, and they were really effective in asymmetrical warfare. They had the biggest effectiveness:simplicity ratio for a really long time and that made them figuratively invaluable and literally cheap. Additionally, you could wear it and reduce it’s bulk to virtually nothing, you might as well keep it as backup alongside more dedicated weapons
>>64549618No, we've teched up too much. 'S why we invented gunpowder weapons.
>>64549618>pick up rock>slam into enemy's skull>this kills them>be op>be retarded>can rock traveling faster kill?
>>64549618Its no coincidence that ammunition used by slingers is called a "bullet", they are one of the earliest known ancestors of the gun
>>64549904
David didn't kill him with the slingshot thoughbeit.
>>64549618Yeah
>>64549950>Fancy people used cast lead which was best but expensiveyou could probably get lead for free just by askingthey didnt have a lot of uses for lead, it was just a byproduct of silver productionsling shot was one of the few things they could use it for that could make a dent in their supply, alongside ship ballast
>>64549618Yes. In the hands of someone who knows how to use them ancient slings are fucking scary. There's at least one case where archaeologists found a skeleton wearing a (for the time) high quality helmet that had a sling-bullet sized hole through the front of the helmet, in and out of the skull, and out the back of the helmet. The one downside to the sling was that you had to train with it basically from the moment you were physically capable of holding it in order to git gud with it.
>>64550470Of course not. Slingshots didn't exist until the 19th century.
>>64549618>sling shot
>>64549618they employed balearic slingers all the way up to the advent of gunpowder. They stood right next to the archers killing people with their big ass rocks.
In fact, they didn't use rocks in battle. They made lead projectiles using molds.
>>64549618Absolutely. Slings are easily powerful enough to be lethal. They also are cheap to make and easily concealable. The real problem is they have a stupid high learning curve when it comes to hitting what you were aiming at..
>>64549950>and then hope the murderous little cunts throwing rocks don't aim for your knees and dickThey hung curtains on the lower edges of their shields for that.
>>64550488>they didnt have a lot of uses for lead,Yeah they did. They used it for pipes, guttering, waterproofing roofs. Lead is a fantastically useful metal if you don't mind spending your years over the age of 40 talking to trees and making horses senators.
>>64549618Remeber that David's story is stolen valor. Elhanan, son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killet Goliath (to make the accounts match, they changed the passage in 2 Samuel 21:19 and 1 Chronicles 20:5 by saying Elhenan killed A BROTHER of Goliath)
>>64551239Don't forget weights for fishing nets, coinage, and pottery glazes and enamels.
>>64551411Yeah it's fantastically useful stuff. That will turn you into a boomer just by handling it.
>>64551239lol one of my favorites was wine-distilling vats. Like it seems so counter intuitive to us but it was widespread. It’s one reason why Roman emperors adopted their heirs a lot
>>64551326>David's story is stolen valorNo it isn'tIt's a grammatical copy error due to the abbreviated structure of Hebrew. Ancient Hebrew had no vowels, no spaces and used names that were frequently mis-copied. Goliath and Lahmi are similar in Hebrew. David killed Goliath, Elhanan killed Goliath's brother.
>>64549618Yes, ancient slings were low range but surprisingly powerful. Most people think of these things as tools that hit somebody with a rock that bounces off of them and causes an owie. This is completely wrong. They loaded them with lead slugs when possible(frequently with bantz carved into them), wounds from battles(meaning armor was likely involved) show that the striking force was such that they would cause penetrating wounds THROUGH BONE. These things would go through light armor with enough force to shatter a rib and enter the chest, or shatter a skull and enter the brain. Probably one of the most underestimated ancient weapons by modern people
>>64551724Lahmi is part of Bet halLahmi, meaning Bethlehemite. David did some other questionable stuff, i would not put stolen valor past him.
>>64551208If anyone is wondering, the writing says "ouch!"
>>64551832> David did some other questionable stuff,A jew would lie? Say it ain’t so.Seriously though, why would David need to lie about that? The story doesn’t change if it’s him or someone else that killed Goliath. The moral is the exact same. Whether you say it was God’s chosen warrior/blessing or it’s just a fable, it doesn’t really matter if it David or someone else. It was David.
>>64549618Nah anon, all those slingers used in war were just for shits and giggles, they mainly are just there to provide ambient music by plinking off armor
>>64550470Don't be pedantic. He knocked him out with the slingshot then cut off his head.
>>64549665>skullet outs himself
>>64553170David was the founder of a new dynasty, he needed to legitimize his claim to the throne. The lie is not about the moral of the story, it is about politics.
>>64553311David just wanted to look cool. Goliath height in the Septuagint and in the Dead Sea Scrolls is listed as 4 cubits and a span (equals 6 feet and inches or 2,06 meters), just a very tall dude.
>>64549618>>64549631 Question answered in <200 secs.Tl;dr:Any man that's ever lived could be killed by a stone to the head thrown from a simple sling even a tween could launch. The real feat would be accurately hitting the tiny area it would kill someone in which is even smaller if they wore a helmet. I've spent maybe 10hrs ever trying to get consistent with sling throwing and could never hit a 4ft target at ~30ft more than 4/5 times.Even so, the claim that a shepherd boy who trainfromchild could 1shot a giant seems entirely plausible. The most unbelievable detail would be that some great warrior wouldn't understand the danger and just stand there to tank a stone to the dome.
>>64549661>>64549665>>64549856/thread
>>64553487>he most unbelievable detail would be that some great warrior wouldn't understand the danger and just stand there to tank a stone to the dome.He didn't. He was fully armored and had a shield and was charging at David when he got domed; David basically pulled off a divinely assisted trickshot.Also, note the repeated "slew" below.>48 And when the Philistine arose and was coming, and drew nigh to meet David, David made haste, and ran to the fight to meet the Philistine.>49 And he put his hand into his scrip, and took a stone, and cast it with the sling, and fetching it about struck the Philistine in the forehead. And the stone was fixed in his forehead: and he fell on his face upon the earth.>50 And David prevailed over the Philistine, with a sling and a stone: and he struck, and slew the Philistine. And as David had no sword in his hand,>51 He ran, and stood over the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath, and slew him, and cut off his head. And the Philistines, seeing that their champion was dead, fled away.I think that "lodged in his forehead" means that it was lodged in Goliath's [bronze and therefore fairly soft] helmet and that Goliath was just stunned until David ran up and finished him. I don't have the source but IIRC from a /his/ thread where this got discussed the specific form of "slew" in verse 50 in the original Hebrew is mostly used to establish a causative relationship while the specific form of "slew" in verse 51 refers to specific and intentional action. So the sling bullet is what caused Goliath's death in the general sense but the specific action responsible for the cessation of Goliath's bodily functions was David finishing him off with a sword.The bible is absolutely crammed full of shit like this because Hebrew is a horrific language to translate.
>>64550488Dudes like the Balearic slingers were fairly elite mercenaries, a bit on tier with English longbowmen and Genoese crossbowmen in terms of being well paid. But if you're a BYO kind of guy like they were, you used the cheapest thing around, which is rock. The rest was squandered on vast amounts of booze because you were front line troops hurling rocks at other guys to bust up light infantry and hopefully skedaddling out of the way when the big hitters turned up like cavalry or heavy infantry formations.>>64551475Lead Acetate was a sweetener for quite a long time in wines, well after the Romans stopped licking the windows and people continued to adulterate wine well up to the late 1800's, course it was illegal to do so but I'm not sure entirely when that came into effect. Much less enforcement of uses of lead anywhere near food.Heck, lead based solder was a thing and still is in some places because Tin is quite expensive and it took a crazy amount of time before they took it out of petrol because it was making the whole world a bit retarded
>>64553690>English longbowmennot elite, just random schmucks that trained with bows on the order or the kind.
>>64553717When you train for ten years to do something physically intensive you ARE the physical elite.
Slinging stones seems to require more natural talent than bows. Without mass-produced metal projectiles, soldiers would have had to adapt to the random sizes of stones they picked up.
>>64553717There was nothing random about guys who literally had to train every week with a 90-110lb pull weight bow and then be expected to do that a 4 dozen times in a rowIts a heck of a workout if you get your arse to a gym and do 100lb lifts 48 times and then be expected to do that through most of your adult life. They were essentially something akin to trained militia, but the trained enough to be considered professional military which was not all that common through most of the era. Hell a draft of filthy randoms anywhere else got you some dudes in a jerkin with a grain flail or some kind of polearm unless their lord busted out some of the munition grade stuff>>64553737It was the bow along with other tactical factors that eventually got rid of the slingers as a sure bet for getting rid of light infantryBut on the same account, you did need some kind of arms industry to churn out bows and arrows in enough numbers to make them matter, whereas in the old days you paid some degenerate goat herders to turn up with some rocks. They still lingered around but not the extent they were a force multiplier like they had been.
>>64553717>bongs mentioned>instant seething and screechingWe are absolutely OVERRUN with brownoids and (may god forgive me for uttering their name) russoids from /pol/ on /k/
>>64553717Pretty sure a longbowman for Henry V could afford to buy multiple swords on a week's wageSo they were well equipped and practiced with their primary armament, that's a good thing to have for the bulk of your army in medieval times, of course it was in an era of rising professionalism generally
>>64549618This is a Rabbinic metaphor, with the moral that a small Jewish tribe will try enslave all non-Jews. Of course, it is impossible to slay Goliath with armor by weak Jew David with a sling, this is a lie of the Torah scroll. Other versions of this story are unpleasant to Jews, Jews have not kept.
>>64553889Slingers were effective against armored infantry for all of human history. "Rocks (or equally weighted lead) the size of an apple flying at over 100 miles per hour" was such an effective method of combat it persisted even well after the Advent of firearms. If it is propaganda, it is physically plausible propaganda.
>>64553717Please stop. Welsh and english Yeoman longbows were absolutely an elite. Same as Cretan archers, and Numidian cavalry. Yes it was a local custom by the common man. But once it became valued it became something they then concentrated on making, these common warriors into an elite.
>>64553726by that logic every medieval combatant is an elite
>>64555794No, just knights, since they trained all the time since childhood to do combat. Similar to Longbowmen. Men-at-arms were usually busy doing things required to survive and did practice on occasion but the entire role and point of a knight was to train for war.
well, in case anyone feels like catching the bug (especially now with winter around the corner and plenty of snowball ammunition soon to be available), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-LQoy2DqCU is the most straightforward* diy balearic sling tutorial i know of (and you're more than welcome to recommend better ones)*by straightforward i mean explicit enough without too much needless blabber and visual descriptive enough to see & understand what's going onthere's obviously much simpler ones with just a single strand of cord, stopper and loop knots at ends and sheepshank in the middle (or full pouch designs) but these unbraided versions have the tendency to twist and stick together making slinging not as smooth as it should be
>>64552517I looked up the roman alphabet, and it don't make sense to me.
>>64552517>If anyone is wondering, the writing says "ouch!"It reads ΔΕΞΑΙ (déxai), which I think is imperative aorist 2nd. person singular of δέχομαι (dékhomai), "I recieve". Essentially it reads "Take [this]!" or "Catch!">>64557517>roman alphabetAnon, you were using the Latin (what the Romans spoke) alphabet as you typed your post. The text on the bullet is Greek.
>>64553681>The bible is absolutely crammed full of shit like this because Hebrew is a horrific language to translate.Very true. On the other hand it gives the interested professional a means of gaining a steady paycheck :^)
>>64553681David also didn't kill him.
>>64553737To be fair you don't need a ton of training to get just good eenough to fling rocks into massed formations artillery style, which is what I imagine the majority of non-elite slingers were expected to do, and if that's the case some leather string or braided rope + rocks is logistically nothing compared to making bows and arrows.Effectively your entire fighting force could have slings, while only a few specialized troops could be archers.
>>64555904>Men-at-arms were usually busy doing things required to survive and did practice on occasiondelusional
>>64558516Then who did? The text plainly reads he did
>>64549904I would probably not let go in time and smash my front teeth
>>64558407Modern assassins writing messages on their bullets typed.
>>64553690>lead based solderit's not a thing because cheaper(well it is, but negligibly) but because it's better63/37 leaded solder melts at 183C(pure tin melts at 230C and leadfree ~220C), meaning you can use lower temperatures, or if you do use regular temperatures it flows much better using pure tin causes whiskers overtime which fucks everything upi don't know if it's because of the higher soldering temps, different thermal expansion or manufacturer jewery but leadfree BGA joints fail much more oftenit also has allegedly better mechanical properties but i haven't experienced that myselfas long as you don't use organic flux and lick it off the board you won't get lead poisoningROHS permits lead in Servers, Storage, and Network Infrastructure, and i'm willing to bet NASA, aerospace and military shit all use leaded soldertldr lead solder is only phased out for the cattle
>>64555794The vast, vast majority of non noble infantry in medieval combat did not seriously train for five or ten years beforehand. What is this, the pendulum swinging back equally far from the "armies were all starving farmers" cliche?
>>64559831your random town militia trained just as much as english bowmen did, the only cliche is hyping up a literal well-to-do peasant levy.
>>64559881>Town militiaThose only existed in the Italian kingdoms and they were LARPers more than they were actual soldiers who would dig for excuses not to fight each other.
>>64559558Read the posts above before commenting >>64551326
>>64559890>Those only existed in the Italian kingdomsLol
>>64559910Ah yes an unsourced claim. Very reliable.
Pick up half a brick and throw it at a watermelon. What happens?Now throw a tennis ball sized river stone, what happens?Now throw a lead ball the size of a tangello. Now get one of those plastic tennis ball throwers and throw the lead weight at a piece of drywall. Now do it again but while running towards the wall. The sling has twice the mechanical acceleration of a tennis ball thrower, and if you're particularly good, can be used with whole- body force.
Skirmishers just keep winning.
>>64549618Why's the manlet attacking Russel Brand?>>64553889That's not the metaphor
>>64560035>Quotes the OT directly and provides the passages >"Ah, yes, no source..." Your mom like to throw them back?
There seems to be a reference to its power by Vegetius.
>>64553881an often ignored thing from that era is swords for most everyone but the cheapest infantry, were back up weapons. Knights preferred being on a horse with their lance, if they were using a sword on their horse then it was to get back to their squire/page to get a new lance, same for longbowmen, they carried swords, but their main weapon was the longbow. Since the beginning of warfare men have tried to kill the enemy at a distance because it puts you at less risk, these weapons are no different to that concept.
>>64559910It also says at the end of 2Samuel 21 that all 4 were defeated by David
>>64551208>>64558407>ancient warfare still took the time to troll one another by writing on their weapons/projectiles
>>64561142>be light infantry cop>call comes in>we got an active school slinger sheeeit
>>64560138Sorry, it did not occur to me you might be a protestant. I am sad for you, being unknowingly fed a purposely mistranslated Bible. The original has not the word "brother" in it. Just a few more examples: Psalm 8:5 has “angels” instead of “gods”, Psalm 22:16 and Zechariah 12:10 adds the word “pierced”, Deuteronomy 8:3 adds “word”, Genesis 22:8 “God will provide a lamb for himself." became “God will provide himself as the lamb.” and 1 Chronicles 6 “Kohath, Amram, Aaron, Moses” became “Kohath his son, Amram his son, Aaron his son, Moses…”. But it is just the supposed word of God being perverted, no biggie.
