SWEDENYEShttps://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/11/sweden-and-saab-selected-for-polands-new-submarines/
>>64563614GODAMN FISHFUCKERS! POLES BETRAY THEMSERLVES! NORDS EAT FUCKING FICH AND FUCK EM, THAT'S RIGHT NEWS AT !! NORDO_FISH FUCKIN!
Can you just make a Sweden general already? Stop shitting up the catalog with every *potential* purchase.
>>64563614> swede Kind make sense, considering it likely will be the cheapest offer on the table.Drawback is Stirling is both rather bulky and inefficient though, the range would probably be just enough for the baltic/north sea
Probably a good call. It's smaller than the Type 212CD, Sortfin Barracuda or S-80 Plus and probably better suited for the Baltic Sea. And good that they decided for European gear instead of gook shit.
>Babcock backing integration and maintenance Come on Sweden just sign for the 31s already
>>64565783The proximity and industry cooperation seem to me like a more major factor, because the sub itself is much more expensive than its competitors.A26 - 1.31 billionS-80 - 983.75 millionType 212CD - ~1.2 billion (not sure)U212 NFS - 500 millionScorpene - 450 million
>>64565783>the range would probably be just enough for the baltic/north seaIsn't that exactly what they're intended for? The baltic sea is apparently a clusterfuck at the sea bottom so it makes sense they picked one designed for that environment
>>64566079imo, considering the current situation, Poland would be better off with building a robust ground force and air+drone defense. Interdiction of Russian naval assets responsibility should fall on north sea/north atlantic states. Most of them(canada, germany, uk) also has a bigger economy than poland, without an existential need for a large ground force.Polish navy should be more focused on usv and mine laying operations
>>64563614Does this mean Kaliningrad will finally be polish again?
>narwhal news
>Its standard complement consists in 26 sailors.That's so few, that's so tiny. I understand that Baltic is a shallow sea and also it's the current year, but that's half of WW2 submarines.
>>64566195They're already investing heavily in ground and air. Navy has been sort of neglected because their main focus has been on the border around kaliningrad and belarus. Right now they only have one kilo class submarine and with the increased activity in the baltic sea having 3 new subs only makes sense.
>>64563614As a Pole I got mixed feelings about this.On one hand, Sweden as a country is a good choice politically, we don't have any dramas and both see/treat Russian threat in similar ways, and Sweden is also operating on the Baltic Sea, a very specific sea that they design their subs for specifically so it's great.But then, it's only Sweden that operates/builds these subs, with the current ones being delayed 3 times and exploding in costs. This offer feels more like Swedes just wanted to get rid off of the firs new gen batches that had some flaws and build improved next batch for themselves ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At least we will quickly get a modernized A19 sub on 2 years with crew training and the first deliveries of A26 will be quite fast (unless swedes delay it for 4th time).>>64566215Baltic is a tiny sea, with a massive density of ships/sensors all around and only like 13-15% of it being deeper than 100 meters. Subs need to be tiny to survive in that. Also, baltic subs will be operating close to host countries and not doing some months long travels across world oceans so no need for large sub/crew to operate for months without docking.
>>64566395Well, there’s always an option of buying old submarine from germs if you feel like not wanting to be jewed by swedecuck. Apparently they broke the diving record for non nuclear submarine, if true.https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63847974/#63850876212a class is also right about the size of a26. Though you’ll probably run into spare part problem, since germs might not be going with coastal short range submarine anymore, since norway and possibly canuck are more oriented toward the arctic and north atlantic.
>>64566650We will see. If the long term repairs and spare parts deliveries are good on the Swedish part, and this will evolve into some kind of future submarine design funding by both us and Sweden it will be great.Our gov chose Swedes most likely because our soviet era ancient submarine is barely functioning and Swedes could quickly fill the gap with their used A19 for the time being to keep ours sub sailors in action.
>>64566650>don't risk getting jewed by the swedes>get jewed for sure by the germans insteadno thank you, we'll take our chances
what do we need subs for? we have no fleet anyway
>>64566835Nah, we are building frigates under "Miecznik" codename, and we are pumping out anti-mining ships 24/7. Also, considering that we now have gas pipelines, power cables and sea wind farms on the baltic sea now it is kinda needed to have our own fleet, even if small in size like 3 subs and 3 frigates to defend our infrastructure and trade to our ports.
>>64566835Blowing up Nord stream 3 and 4
Sweden has not built a sub in 30 years meaning that everyone with experience in designing and building subs is gone.
>>64563614Kewl and all, but do those procurements make any sense at all?The MSBS debacle, the 7 types of tanks in use, the whatever the original heli BS was and subsequent Apache deal, SPG (they are getting SPG's right?), Borsuk/Rosomak/Bober and now this...Is anyone in charge?
>>64566835Kurwa?
>>64567169>ORP ŚlązakŚlązak? ŚLĄZAK? Co robi ślązak na morzu?
>>64563614>>64565783Polak here.We have no doubts that the Swedish boat will be light years better than what we currently have..More importantly Sweden is actually a reliable military ally in our part of the woods, they share the same risks and have the same threat perception of PUCCIA. We're looking to becoming much closer allies, even setting up a defensive pact with them, in which we have a brigade of paratroopers in Gotland, while they send a few battalions and Gripens near Koningsberg.Since NATO is basically dead and the US is now a belligerent, we need to consider a nuclear weapons program, and Sweden basically has a turn key capability of becoming a nuclear power.Wish we could trash that deal we got suckered buying shitty ass AH-64s from Boeing.
>>64567201ładuje wungiel do boilera
>>64566195>Interdiction of Russian naval assets responsibility should fall on north sea/north atlantic statesWe have no confidence in NATO, nor countries like Germany, France, the US, Italy or Portugal actually sending troops and sailors to die for Eastern Poland.We see how Ukraine is being coerced into signing her own capitulation under the auspices of "preserving peace" or "de-escalating with Putin". We expect to be treated in the same, instrumentalized manner.Fuck you and your worthless Article 5.
>>64567255powodzenia w pozyskaniu "nowych" łodzi podwodnych gdzieś koło 2045 roku, biorąc pod uwagę dotychczasowe opóźnienia, a do tego czasu pływaniu na złomach a17 gorszej klasy niż orp orzeł. zanim się wyda, że w sumie szrota dostaniemy i z tego się zrobi afera to już będzie inna władza. :^)
>Saab is set to deliver them in 2031 and 2033By then there will be no Russia (good) or no Poland (also good).t. Polaczek Mały, znak mój orzeł biały.
>>64567267>>64567255reading through the leaked EU """counter-offer""" a couple days ago, which was nothing but the zigger peace deal reworded with slightly less aggressive language felt more unironically demoralizing than the past 4 years of their daily demoralization attempts on /k/. "Reliable security guarantees" my ass, "USA will be compensated for this" my ass. I know it's too much to ask burgers to elect an actual president instead of a lead-poisoned boomer traitor, but the peace deal should read>1) Don't touch our shit, subhuman asiatics>2) If Russia is ever found in breach of this non-aggression pact, NATO commits to dropping no less than 15 tons of explosive ordnance on the Kremlin within a week of such an event>Addendum: get fucked lmao, TZD
>>64566063>A26>stirling aip+standard shaping>s-80>fc aip+standard shaping>212nfs>fc aip+li ion battery+standard shaping>212cd >fc aip+li ion+stealth shaping>scorpene>li ionHmm, unless I’m getting it wrong, the german and italian seems to offer the best deals out of them all. German ones is more expensive, probably due to necessity of expeditionary patrols ? Is the animosity between pole and german/italian too great to reject that ?
>>64567271>Muh opóźnieniaOtrzymamy A19 do przeszkolenia za rok, a docelowo pierwsze Szwedzkie łodzie trafią do nas.Przykro mi, że twoje przydupasy partyjne nie dostały szekli od lobbystów.
>>64567293The majority of Polaks are still somewhat in a state of delusion about Article 5 and actual US global readiness and capabilities.The US is weaker than it ever has been, and they're only bluffing to be our security partners to keep milking us for tax-free status of their mega corporations operating in Poland as well as ensuring legacy weapon sales.Putin's invasion of Ukraine was the signal we all understood: America no longer has credible deterrence.For that reason, we must seek non-proliferation of atomic weapons in Central Europe: I propose a mutual defensive pact between Sweden-Finland-Poland (Baltics are a bit of a liability desu, just too small), possibly Romania (they're fickle and weak), Ukraine and Turkey. Our military should immediately start drawing up plans for a naval blockade of Kaliningrad and starving those ziggers there, if we see any more asiatic puccian hybdrid warfare bullshit.As a back-up, we need to start developing long range ballistic missiles with Sweden and Ukraine (already has advanced designs) that can strike Moscow and Leningrad WITHOUT asking for permission from the US, who will be pressuring us to "please de-escalate"!!
>>64567327I still believe in American military might because raw numbers don't lie and 600 stealth fighters are nothing to scoff at. Deterrence failed because of American politics, not a lack of strength.Whether or not we can trust that strength to actually be put to a good use is another matter entirely, and I agree with you on this. America is not a reliable security exporter anymore, at least until all the retarded boomers die and the two party system goes with them... which is still a decade or two away at least
>>64567365>600 stealth fighters are nothing to scoff at.That's nothing.We live in the age of mass-produced hyper-cheap drones and missiles.What is 600 legacy aircraft in the face of 20 million drones per year that China can put out and spam at us.>WE CAN UGH BOMB THE FACTORIESNo you can't. They can be produced in basements and garages.America is decades behind.
>>64567327that's a wild coalition but I agree.
>>64567327>As a back-up, we need to start developing long range ballistic missiles with Sweden and Ukraine (already has advanced designs) that can strike Moscow and Leningrad WITHOUT asking for permission from the USGood luck with that.Go take a look into Brazil-Argentina ICBM/Nuclear Weapon Project, and see how the US manage to sabotage it with UN and shit.
>>64567397Well, then we should get our hands on some of the Epstein files, and hold it over the heads of any kiddy-diddling president that dares interfere.
>>64566203No Czechish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%C3%A1lovec_Region
>>64567418I would unironically support that, so that our Czech bros would finally get sea access.
>>64567418>>64567445Millions of Ziggers must perish for Czech access to the sea.
>>64567294>The new ship – A26 – is to be delivered in 2030; from 2027, Polish sailors will be trained on a bridge ship. Swedish diplomats have expressed confidence that the delivery dates will be met. The agreement is also to cover industrial cooperation, including Swedish purchases of Polish military equipment. The Swedes have declared their intention to order a Ratownik-class ship.>Sweden, he added, presented the best offer according to the team in terms of all criteria – delivery time, price, value, and operational capabilities, especially in the Baltic Sea.>The Deputy Prime Minister highlighted the industrial aspect of the project. “In addition, we wanted to acquire skills for the Polish shipbuilding industry. The most far-reaching declarations concerning investments in the Polish arms industry, servicing, and repairs came from Sweden,” he said, emphasizing that Poland is to gain the ability to independently service vessels, and that the talks also concern investments in research and development.>He pointed out that the Swedes had also committed to purchasing from Polish industry, including a rescue ship. “This shows that the offset will be huge compared to what we had in the past,” he said. He recalled Sweden's purchase of Piorun anti-aircraft systems.https://defence24.pl/polityka-obronna/okret-podwodny-ze-szwecji-wicepremier-jedyny-ktory-spelnil-wszystkie-wymogiSeems like if it was just about subs then maybe the other option would win, but Swedes offered the best deal overall.>animosity between pole and germanNot with this government, they're pro-German.>Italianlol, there has never been any animosity between us and them
>>64563614Northern Europe is kind of based ngl, norway, sweden, demark, estonia, latvia, poland, scotland, Irelan, denmark, and finland are some serious shitkickers when they do their thinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Northern_War
>>64567293SO MUCH THISABSOLUTE THISTHIS BUT WITH MORE THIS
>>64567732you've been trying to convince us that TZD is reddit for the past 4 years, how are you niggers not tired yet?
>>64567267>Fuck you and your worthless Article 5.I think I missed the part where Ukraine was a NATO member
>>64563614Will they come with screen doors, or will the Poles add them later?
>>64567761Nice gay strawman 2016 redditfag commie. TZD and zigger cope is pure /k/ just like vatnik bingo was.
>>64567255>AH-64s from BoeingWe should have bought AW249s instead. Can we trash the 100 AH-64 deal and just do that?
>>64566203Yes.>>64567418No.>>64567445NO.>>64567581NOOO.
>>64567384
>>64563614>SWEDEN
>>64568868Just give it back to the rightful owners, Karol.
>>64569633Nice try, pepiczku.
>>64567711Certainly used to be. I'm a swedish immigrant to the US who joined the army and my first sergeant was obsessed with swedish military history like the 30 year war. For better and for worse for me. But i guess hating russia unites all the scandis, baltics and east europe so sweden might stop being total pussies and go back to their roots
>>64563614>magnetic steel hull>obsolete torpedos with a piston engine>stirling engine and lead acid batterieskurwabros...
>>64568856but apache is a more capable helicopter
>>64567698>Swedish diplomats have expressed confidence that the delivery dates will be met."This liberal arts major with no insights or knowledge of natural science and technology promises that a country that has not built a sub in 30 years and is starting over from zero is going to be on schedule and cost". When the germans bought the swedish sub builder in the 1990s they trashed as much as they could. "We do not need those people, we have that kind of office in Germany".
>substhere's a decomissioned Kobben-class sub in Gdynia, Poland, next to the naval museum beside the beach and marina. it's open to visitors, you can buy a ticket and walk right in.if you're ever around and go there, go visit Błyskawica next, the oldest intact destroyer in the world.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82_(2002)
>>64570288No one gives a fuck.You don't buy military equipment from a hostile power, which the US is to Europe.
>>64570396>whines about the US being an unreliable partner>still isn't meeting military spending targets as a percentage of GDP
>>64567255Shared goals, shared interests. Natural allies. Polish girls are hot.
>>64570829>Polish girls are hot.but they all crave either korean dong or bbc
>>64570443>>still isn't meeting military spending targets as a percentage of GDPWho are you talking about?
>>64565792>gook shitIf there is anything that the gooks make that is genuine fucking dogshit, its their subs. They fucked up with their Type 214s that they built in house with corrosion causing sea water to drip on electronics. They tried to deflect and say it was the German components at fault even though every single gook 214 had the problem, but no other 214 operator did. An almost identical problem happened with the subs they sold to Indonesia with poor ventilation systems causing the corrosion along with some power spiking issues.
>>64571375>t. hapa gook hybrid
>>64572737source?
>>64571375CHING CHONG BING BONG
>>64574035For the 214shttps://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/10/major-defects-found-on-south-koreas-type-214-submarine-fleet/Pic rel is the Indo subs. Iirc electrical failure was blamed by the Indonesian side for their sub that sunk in like 2019, but the gooks denied that. Now that same issue was found on others in Batch 1. Batch 2 issues are more legal side since they signed the contract with DSME, but they were bought out by Hanwha Ocean. Now HO is trying to skirt the terms of the contract since it was technically signed with DSME. Ironically now the Indos are looking towards the nips to fill the gap of dumping the gooks.
Why would the poles buy subs when they are fully a land military countryAirforce and cruise/ballistic missiles is what matters for them
>>64575798>when they areThey not are.
>>64575798>they are fully a land military countryWtf are you on about? Just stfu.https://youtu.be/F95mfE1qAJg
>>64567255>>64566195Consider the following:A sub staying at the bottom of the Baltics inactive for months.Just waiting to unleash the min nuclear vatnicaust on pidorsubrg
>>64566195>Poland would be better off with building a robust ground force and air+drone defense.But that's already happening + Poland must start investing in Polish Navy because it hasn't really done that for decades and many ships should have been already replaced yesterday.https://youtu.be/Q__XnXOM124
Given the conditions and how the Nordic coast has hundreds of tiny islands i'm surprised the Baltic countries haven't considered a swarm of standardized mini subs. Something in the 150-175 ton range, like a NATO Yono or something like that.
I wonder if the swedes ever thought of creating their own attack helicopter....
>>64576464>YonoWhy not Yugo? Because we're not fucking norks!If we would go for a midget submarine, then it would most likely be the DGK or STM 500.
>>64576771I said 'like' a NATO Yono not an actual Yono, i only used it as a size comparison. STM 500 would be a bit big for what i was thinking but DGK would be just fine.
>>64576803>DGK would be just fine.Yeah, it's more compact.
>>64576814Speaking about DGKs and Yonos this article by a consultant for DRASS is kinda funny. You can tell the guy is using alot of words to avoid mentioning the Cheonan incident or openly saying 'Do what the Norks do':https://www.naval-review.com/news-views/the-compact-submarines-a-gamechanger-in-underwater-warfare-operations/
>>64576161Baltic is an over-glorified fish pond, not a true sea, pawel.All these inland ponds, same for BLACKED sea or barents are just consolation prize so the oceanlet/sealet/inlandcel/frozencel to cope about.But hey, you can always try asking Dane or kraut for a slice of north sea coast or heligoland for a change :^)
>>64576846>Launching missiles from submarines: a useless and harmful capabilityLOL
>>64567327Eastern Euros will literally go it alone against russia before ever blaming Republicans for .
>>64577183He isn't entirely wrong that it would reveal the location of a small sub like he is talking about.
>>64576891>pondNo, SEA!https://youtu.be/IUxxJC2kGvM
>>64577238If it's a 250 km class missile, you're decently far from your target, and safely below radar horizon (assuming the enemy force doesn't have AEW). And 250 km is far longer range than any torpedo. Though he is right about a) intercept probability; b) smaller warhead. Personally, I'm in favor of returning to 'pitbull' style minisubs. <750-ish tons (large enough to fit a prairie/masker or equivalent, but still compact), 8+ torpedo tubes (some of them with multi-packed weapons, like IDAS missiles or Sea Spider self-defense minitorpedoes; I think even the Torped 47 can be dual-packed in extended-length torp tubes) and no reloads.
>>64570288>Buy best attack helicopter known to man>Supplier doesn't allow you to use it to defend yourself but sign an elaborate 28-point capitulation insteadExplain how this is a favorable procurement.
>>64567293the only peace plan for russia should involve russia giving up all nuclear weapons, all long-range strike capabilities and hard capping their army at 10000 men and their equipment. then they can spend 1000 years paying reparations to ukraine and living in the bronze age.then we can finally have peace in europethe only alternative is permanent TZD and turning that piece of land into a global nature reserve
>>64577669Volodya kicking the bucket and the whole thing devolving back into a '90s-era grifter-warlord patchwork would also work, albeit only temporarily (~25 years or so).
cont >>64577669 btw, same with belarus of course since they are a party to this invasion. heavy disarmament, all top russian and belarusian government officials executedthat can secure the safety of european nations.each week russia and belarus don't agree we add more demands like "50% of all mined resources go to eu" and keep bombing them with everything we have. we inform them that if they don't agree in a specific time frame there will be no negotiation and we will implement TZD. if they are passed that deadline we just cut all communication channels and continue.I want to be the nato/eu that russian propaganda keeps talking about.>inb4 nukesI don't care, we should have executed some kind of a first strike on those silos years ago, the first rule of any nuclear war is to have fun
>>64567698>but Swedes offered the best deal overall.Even with a 50% involvement of domestic manufacturing, the swedes could not convince the dutch to buy their subs. They were too expensive, offered little innovation and honestly the partner they chose (Damen) has atrocious quality control and support - often pushing back maintenance on military vessels in favor of yaghts.But I guess poland still has some naval procurement maturing to do.
On the other side of the atlantic, 212cd seems quite favorable to canadian navyWeird that CAN didnt even consider french nuclear boat, seeing how massive their coastline ishttps://defencereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/From-the-Depths-Getting-Canadas-Submarine-Replacement-Right-DefenceReport-1.pdf
>>64577941Probably because they don't want to step on the USN's toes by getting a nuke sub.
>>64577941Nobody knows more about working with the french than other french people
>>64576814Weirdly enough, I couldn't find a single official figure for its displacement. I've seen 210, 219, and 270 tons quoted. Might also be different equipment levels. Still, that's really small, closer to classic midget subs in dimensions. It also apparently has a crew of only 9.
>>64578957That would be just fine, the guy who is trying to sell it makes it clear he wants a western version of the Yono in all but name, which is what that is. If you read closely he even outlines the exact missions Yonos are used for then lists every single place on earth that they could be used EXCEPT the Yellow Sea, the omissions are really conspicuous if you look for them. While we are on the topic of cheap things that NATO doesn't use but might consider: Submersible speed boats. That maze of hundreds of islands on the Finnish coast would be ideal, give them a pair of lightweight torpedoes and a few Brimstones and they would be great. You could even give them a full sized externally mounted heavyweight torpedo if it was a catamaran, stick it under them; imagine a submersible version of the Cobra Water Moccasin. Just infest the southern coast with a few dozen of them then swarm out and delete anything Russian that floats. If you infested both coasts any Russian subs would be forced into the middle where the underwater listening networks and full sized subs are.
Further SSSB idea: Since it would want an antenna buoy to get passive data and Russia would try to send helicopters after them give the little bastards an AMRAAM, the area would be covered in AWACs so targeting data isn't a issue
>>64578957Well, it's predecessors had different kinds of tonnages, so it would make sense if it had different displacement classes.
>>64579364>That would be just fine, the guy who is trying to sell it makes it clear he wants a western version of the Yono in all but name, which is what that is. Very short-ranged manned midget subs like the DGK are going to have strong competition from armed (i.e. torpedo-carrying) submarine drones. If you think about it, most of a sub's internal volume is dedicated to keeping the crew alive. If you remove the crew, you can make the sub a lot cheaper, while still preserving its combat capabilities.
>>64581296The Scandinavian and Baltic people are ethical people, it is what separates them from Russians and makes them worthy of being considered humans. Because that basic humanity there must be a crew since there must be a human who decides to kill a animal i.e a Russian. It is unethical to simply designate machines to kill animals like Russians, besides being moral cowardice people like Greta Thunberg would bother us forever over it.
>>64581494>The Scandinavian and Baltic people are ethical peopleScandis, but really Swedes in particular, are just self-righteous moralizers, much of it brought on by the need to wash away the reputation of the amoral profiteering bystander in WW2, and also as an attempt to gain international relevance in the only avenue open to them; as a "moral" superpower. Your pic related is the perfect illustration of Sweden's number one export.
>>64581606So what you are saying is we need to convince Greta to hate Russia and mash her fist in a autistic rage onto a red button?
>>64581494It's not about ethics, but effectiveness. For instance, something like a DGK has a submerged range of just a bit over 100 nm (probably at submerged cruise speed). There are large weapon-carrying UUVs in development which can do that for roughly half the price of an equivalent minisub.
>>64581494>The Scandinavian and Baltic people are ethical people, it is what separates them from Russians and makes them worthy of being considered humans.You better read about what the Schwedentrunk aka the Swedish drink was.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
>>64577366>>64581850Midget sub are a relic of the past.You either go full oceanic submarine or uuv
>>64583537Why not both?
>>64583443>look at this thing they did in 1618!
>>64584352>yes
>>64578237KEK
>>64563614Why is the conn tower shaped like a benis?
>>64585926New type of blended sail. Zhangs copied the design on their latest Yuan-class subs.
>>64586322>Zhangs copied the design on their latest Yuan-class subs.Of course! Chinks will be chinks.
>>64583443This just sounds like ye ol' Fyre Festival with extra steps
>>64585926>Conn tower>Now the coom tower
>>64587133>Fyre FestivalKek, haven't heard it for years. To be fair, I don't remember it being THAT bad.
>>64588086Excuse me, mate, were you there? No? Well, shut the fuck up then.
>>64567309dostaniemy a17, co potwierdził kurczak wolski, a a26 prawdopodobnie będzie przestarzałę technologicznie w każdym zakresie, gdy szwedzi jużje nam zbudują. kadłub ze stali magnetycznej, przestarzałe baterie, możliwość użycia tylko szwedzkich torped. bierz udział w wojence polsko-polskiej zamiast patrzeć obiektywnie, a wygrasz gówno, bo mieszkamy kurwa w chlewie.
>>64589382>Well, shut the fuck up then.OH... someone IS SAALTYY ovah here! We're you rick rolled into buying tickets there and burned? xD Bwhahaha!
>>64589409>będzie przestarzałę technologicznie w każdym zakresie,Co za bzdury.>kadłub ze stali magnetycznejZdemagnetyzowanej.>przestarzałe baterieWeź te pierdolenie Wolskiego bod dywan.>możliwość użycia tylko szwedzkich torpedKompletna bzdura. Torped 62 ma 533 mm, tyle samo co DM2A4 czy Black Shark, a Mk 48 ma 530 mm. Więc A26 jest kompatybilny ze wszystkimi torpedami NATO! Nie ma grubszych torped w NATO od 533 mm.
>>64589409>>przestarzałe baterieSą tańsze ale co najważniejsze bardziej bezpieczne bo o wiele mniej palne. Ale zawsze można je wymienić na litowo-jonowe bo A26 jest modularny. Więc w czym problem?
>>64592367>>64592187not just that, but the stirling engine on the A26 is way behind fuel cell AIP in both volumetric energy density and efficiencysee >>64565783 >>64566650pic related, the FC AIP is the real game changer if you really want a true long endurance SSK, germs and nords doing it because they need to close the GIUK gap, possibly even the Arctic.Now back to poland. Sure, poles doesn't trust germany, and polish navy probably doesn't have much of a need beyond the baltic sea, but it would be dishonest to claim that swedish tech is any where near the best conventional submarine
>>64592367>>64592187These are perfectly viable but i'd also go with a swarm of a few dozen (or even 100+ as a Polish/Baltic/Nordic project) of something like this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos-class_submarineYou could probably come up with some funny shit like Brimstone VLS tubes or something like that pretty cheaply. Cut costs by using off board AWACS/ASW targeting data via a buoy.
>>64592416>>>64565783You know that A26 uses 4th gen AIP + led-acid batteries with the ability to upgrade to lithium-ion batteries? 18 days submerged and 45 days total endurance is fine. 1,500 nm range submerged is not bad too for AIP.
>>64592736This is why Australia told France to fuck off, the range and more importantly station time for French subs makes them the equivalent of coastal defense subs compared to the US nuke offer.
>>64592416>>64592713>1500 nm range submerged is decent for AIP Stirling without FC.
>>64592187bzdurykadłub: SSAB Strenx 700, stal magnetycznabaterie: kwasowo-ołowiowe, nie litowo-jonoweowszem, można je wymienić, ale AIP nie wymienisz, a generuje dodatkowe sygnatury (w tym cieplną i chemiczną, bo trzeba rozpuszczać spaliny w wodzie)torpedy: nie ma pneumatycznego systemu wystrzału pozwalającego na korzystanie z pocisków manewrujących lub przeciwokrętowych (SM40 Exocet), można tylko i wyłącznie korzystać z ciężkich torped typu swim-out, a te używane w a26 mają tylko napęd spalinowy.na tym ładnym obrazku a26 ma wyrzutnie VLS, tylko że fizyczne zbudowane prototypy, które mamy dostać nie są i nie będą w nie zaopatrzone.a26, gdy już te prototypy szwedzkie zostaną ukończone i nam przekazane po 2030-2035 roku, będzie przestarzały.
>>64592744>nie litowo-jonowe>owszem, można je wymienić,No właśnie, jak się chce, to można mieć litowo-jonowe, no problemo.>nie ma pneumatycznego systemu wystrzału pozwalającego na korzystanie z pocisków manewrujących lub przeciwokrętowych (SM40 Exocet),Yes moduł VLS.>a26 ma wyrzutnie VLS, tylko że fizyczne zbudowane prototypy, które mamy dostać nie są i nie będą w nie zaopatrzone.Kto powiedział, że nie będzie??? Przecież wymogiem programu Orka była możliwość strzelania rakietami manewrującymi przez VLS.Albo kogoś pojebało w MONie, albo ciebie.
>>64592736Why was this post deleted? They are obviously wrong but it didn't break any rules that i know of.
>>64592744nawet mi się nie chce wspominać, że projekt ma LATA opóźnień i ponad trzykrotnie zwiększony budżet i dalej ich nie skończyli: https://www.konflikty.pl/aktualnosci/wiadomosci/szwedzkie-okrety-podwodne-a26-w-polowie-lat-30/dostaniemy konstrukcję, która dla szwedów jest ślepym zaułkiem i ciężarem budżetowym, podczas gdy oni sami skupiają się nad wdrożeniem a30.
>>64592757jedyny system vls istnieje jako MODEL w modelu a26. szwedzi nie mają licencji od usa na tomahawki, więc nigdy nie zrobili tego modułu. jest OPCJA zainstalowania tego modułu, ale on fizycznie jeszcze nie istnieje i to MY musielibyśmy się dogadać z trumpem jeśli byśmy go chcieli i MY musielibyśmy go zbudować, lol.nawet na obrazku masz że to jest kurwa insert, not fitted to swedish boats.co do baterii to po kiego chuja mamy kupować te suby jeśli od razu musimy w nich wymieniać baterie? gdzie tu ta taniość?
>thread devolves into moonrunes and slavisismAs predicted
>>64592757https://nitter.net/AleksanderOlech/status/1996138623658250436#msomeone's having second thoughts, maybe after actual mariners btfo'd a26 tech specs.
>>64592766>która dla szwedów jest ślepym zaułkiemZ celów budżetowych.>podczas gdy oni sami skupiają się nad wdrożeniem a30Mają być mniejsze i mieć mniej systemów.>>64592779>jedyny system vls istnieje jako MODEL w modelu a26.>więc nigdy nie zrobili tego modułu.>ale on fizycznie jeszcze nie istniejeKurwa... Żaden A26 jeszcze nie istnieje, więc to znaczy, że żadnego A26 nie będzie??? Idąc twoim tokiem myślenia... Wymogi programu Orka mówią, że moduł VLS w A26 musi być wybrany.>szwedzi nie mają licencji od usa na tomahawki,NO I???>MY musielibyśmy się dogadać z trumpem jeśli byśmy go chcieliCzy tylko Tomahawki są jedyną opcją? NIE. Ja bym nawet nie chciał iść w Tomahawki w obecnym klimacie geopolitycznym, tylko preferowałbym Hyunmoo-3 lub nawet i SCALPy. Ale co jesteś taki krótkowzroczny? Najlepiej dla Polski byłoby, jeśli zaczęlibyśmy prawdziwe finansowanie Lancy z Grupy WB i potem integracja jej z VLSem A26, tak!>nawet na obrazku masz że to jest kurwa insert,Kurwa o co ci chodzi, to tylko stary render.>co do baterii to po kiego chuja mamy kupować te suby jeśli od razu musimy w nich wymieniać baterie?Przecież można by od razu zamówić baterie litowo-jonowe zamiast kwasowo-ołowiowych, w czym problem? Jest tylko zawsze taka opcja, jakby się zamówiło te oryginalnie zaplanowane, że można by je wymienić na nowsze. Tylko, że kwasowo-ołowiowe są tańsze i bezpieczniejsze, a litowo-jonowe bardziej wydajne, ale za to bardziej droższe i palne.
>>64592837nie no zajebiście, czyli zamiast w 2035, to dodatkowe r&d i przeznaczony na to budżet dadzą nam przestarzałe a26 w 2040 w cenie już teraz istniejących np. niemieckich subów, które mają taką specyfikację na starcie. kurwa, my polacy jesteśmy genialni!
>>64592761/k/ is a NAFO subsidiary at this point, the jannies are all redditroons
>>64592812In all honesty, the best offer was given by KSS-III, gap filler straight away including investments into Polish shipyards and probably quickest delivery.
>>64592858>to dodatkowe r&d i przeznaczony na to budżetKurwa, my tak i tak powinniśmy mieć własne zdolności z rakietami manewrującymi. Tak naprawdę powinniśmy Tomahawki olać i iść własną drogą, tak jak Turcy, i zacząć inwestować w Lancę. Jeśli by Grupa WB dostała dofinansowanie by dokończyć projekt, i byśmy się wzięli za to tak na poważnie, to byśmy się wyrobili z gotową Lancą do 2030 r.>przestarzałe a26 w 2040Co ty pieprzysz, maja być w 2030-35. I nie są przestarzałe.
>>64592416Stirling AIP is proven and reliable technology, meaning no "we will finish developing it in X years" risk. It's the correct choice for coastal patrol and small seas like the Baltic.Swedish subs are also able to engage more targets than the other participants due to not just using 533 mm heavy torpedoes but also double-stacked (2 per tube) 400 mm light torpedoes, which make anything barring the heaviest targets go boom.A26 is also heavily configured for seabed warfare and other special operations, which has been a massive problem in the Baltic recently with all the cable cutting, pipeline sabotage and other spook ops.
>>64592896Zesrali się, bo ryży kukold miał kupić wunderwaffe - no ale A26 wyszło taniej a pieniędzy nie ma .Also this>The hostility towards ThyssenKrupp reached a new level during the Kockums equipment repossession incident on 8 April 2014. As per protocol, two military trucks accompanied by armed soldiers entered the Kockums shipyard in Malmö to reclaim all materiel and equipment belonging to the Defence Materiel Administration (Sweden), FMV, as well as all secret blueprints and images. By orders from a manager, Kockums staff tried to sabotage the repossession by locking the gates with the repossession crew and escort still inside.[8] According to a spokesperson for FMV, this is the first time they have had to forcefully repossess equipment.[8]>Shortly after, ThyssenKrupp initiated discussions to sell Kockums to Saab. The deal was finalized on 22 July 2014, making Saab the new owner of Kockums.[9]Swedes don't fuck around.
>>64592713>18 days submerged and 45 days total endurance is fineExcept the PEMFC has done twice the amount a decade ago. There's a reason why Japs ditched Stirling for more Li-ion batteries, and even then, they dont provide extended endurance like PEMFC.Also pic related, reminder that soryu is a 4000t SSK, well over twice as big as a u212a, yet only with a marginally worse endurance(lol). The smaller A26 will more than likely be inferior to 212a in endurance, not to mention acoustic stealth, since stirling AIP comes with moving parts.>Wir haben die längste Zeit am Stück, die je mit einem Uboot der Klasse 212 A getaucht verbracht wurde, wohlbehalten und gut gelaunt hinter uns gelassen. >Zusätzlich hat die Besatzung die längste Strecke absolviert, die je ein Uboot der Deutschen Marine getaucht am Stück zurückgelegt hat. >Ein doppelter Grund zur Freude und auch ein bisschen Stolz erfüllt uns.>Besatzung Delta hat seit Auslaufen von Ponta Delgada 2.769,8 Seemeilen getaucht zurückgelegt. http://web.archive.org/web/20130828122046/seefahrer.blog.de/2013/03/>>64592933>provenso does PEMFC, which has a service record that spans over two decades.Swede is way behind in submarine tech, probably comparable to chink conventional sub or slightly ahead at best.
>>64592865>NAFOJesus fucking christ its been 3 years and those faggy dog avatars are still making you scream at night?
>>64593454The reason fuel cells have started getting cut out in some recent sub designs is cost. Not of the sub itself, but of the ancillary infrastructure. If you don't use fuel cells, you don't need complex and expensive pierside cryostorage and pumping equipment for liquid oxygen and hydrogen. Nor do you need specially trained crew to operate said equipment, either for pierside fueling, or the sub's own systems. A sub with two/three diesels and a fuckton of Li-ions is the most straightforward option.
>>64593098>>Shortly after, ThyssenKrupp initiated discussions to sell Kockums to Saab. The deal was finalized on 22 July 2014, making Saab the new owner of Kockums.[9]If this happened in Poland and GROM entered into Polish shipyards taken over by the Germs, after government change Tusk would have apologized to the Germs and given away the shipyards again but for free the second time, as to apologize for the inconvenience.
>>64593098>Swedes don't fuck around.That was really undemocratic of them. Germ...*ehm* I meant the EU should punish Sweden for being such literal fascistic nazis.
>>64583443We learned that torture technique from German mercenaries. Most of the "Swedish" soldiers in the 30 Years War were actually German mercenaries. Pretty much all of the war crimes and other horrible shit was Germ-on-Germ violence.But even if we hypothetically did all of that the Catholics deserved it for what they did to Magdeburg.
>>64596725>We learned that torture technique from German mercenaries.Hah, sure.>Most of the "Swedish" soldiers in the 30 Years War were actually German mercenaries.Yes, with English money, right?>Pretty much all of the war crimes and other horrible shit was Germ-on-Germ violence.Suuure thing Sven. Swedes didn't nuffing wrong, I get it.>the Catholics deserved it for what they did to Magdeburg.Magdeburg was justified. Ah, so they didn't deserve it, gotcha.P.S. Tilly von Based (he was truly based).
>>64593454>There's a reason why Japs ditched Stirling for more Li-ion batteries,Again, you could always choose to use LAB instead of LIB in the A26.>not to mention acoustic stealth, since stirling AIP comes with moving parts.It's still fairly stealthy with vibration isolators and accosting dampeners, it's ok.P.S. I mean, you really that butthurt that your Type 212CD lost to a A26 in Poland, Germ?
>>64594693I believe all subs carry LOX, but LOX is trivial technology compared to the hydrogen, which is super difficult to handle.>>64593454Famously, Stirling engine equipped Swedish subs managed to outmaneuver the entire protective contingent of an American carrier group during an exercise, I dont think you can critize it based on how stealthy it is. Endurance is the limiter, which is no issue at all in the Baltic. LOX and diesel logistics are simpler than hydrogen logistics during times of conflict, easier to refuel at more sites or even temporary sites.Its probably the other features (more torpedoes, seabed warfare capabilities etc) which makes the A26 attractive.
>>64597475Compressed air =/= LOX. Producing LOX requires an air separation plant and cryostorage. Compressed air needs only a strong pump and a durable tank.
>>64597517>pump Derp, meant compressor.
>>64597475>Famously, Stirling engine equipped Swedish subs managed to outmaneuver the entire protective contingent of an American carrier group during an exercise,Britbongs or australians did the same with a fossile Oberon class. So its not a particulary rare feat. In oceanic waters, diesel subs are hopelessy outclassed by SSNs.
>>64593454Oops, wanted to post this vid rel instead here: >>64597388
>>64597569>In oceanic waters, diesel subs are hopelessy outclassed by SSNs. An antelope can outrun a human in sprint, but a human will outrun an antelope over a 2 km jog. Different tool, different purpose. You won't use a 1500 ton SSK(I) to patrol around the Solomons, and you won't use a 5000+ ton SSN to operate in the Black or Baltic.
>>64594693>specially trained crew to operate said equipment, either for pierside fueling, or the sub's own systems.Wut ??? PEMFC ain’t fecking nuclear science, refueling LOX, and even hydrogen, as the case with u32 in the us is pretty straight forward. Hydrogen storage onboard is risky though, indeed. TKMS has been working on methanol reformer since the 90s. Words around are 212cd will go with a reformer instead of metal hydride, which would be much more suitable for large boats.>>64597571Expenditionary is mostly about food storage and crew accomodation. You cannot expect to get the Stirling to be anywhere near as efficient as FC, that's a fact.
>>64592744>muh lithium ionenjoy dying in inferno on the bottom of the sea
>>64598244They've been trying to make methanol fuel cells work for a pretty long time. IIRC they still have issues with size and efficiency. Though methanol would indeed be less dangerous than pure hydrogen. The French were researching a diesel fuel cell at some point, but all info regarding it seems to stop around 2021. I think they ran into some large obstacles, and stopped development.
>>64598244>Expenditionary is mostly about food storage and crew accomodation.>A26 (Blekinge-class) | Expeditionary (C71)>2,000 tonnes | 3,000 tonnes>45 days (18 submerged) | 13,000+ nm, months-long
>>64598629I like how shills will claim that LABs are old tech, even though they are cheaper and much safer, but still when you tell them that they can be easily replaced with LIBs in A26 IF THE CUSTOMER WANTS IT, they still will ignore it and move the goal post into BS like, "why buy LABs when you'll "must" replace them with LIBs". Not even thinking for a sec that you could just order them with LIBs from the get-go. >>64592779>nawet na obrazku masz że to jest kurwa insert, not fitted to swedish boats.Co kurwa?
>>64599062For me going with lion is a big gamble. I can already forsee the internal shitstorm if one of subs catched fire. Next decade would be filled with commisions and investigations about this.For me lead acid is just a safety measure to not even be in a proximity of what I said above happening.
>>64596854>butthurt cathocuck larperPretty much everyone was a vile peice of shit in the 30 years war. You clearly know about the war so why are you pretending it was unique to bjorn?
>>64563614oh cool, another fucking tech that will be rendered inoperable via kill switch by our so called "allies"
>buying from sweedensuch a good idea. sweeden has always been such a great ally of Poland
>>64599088ARA San Juan and KRI Nanggala had lead-acid batts, and blew up just fine.
>>64599310both were also old as fuck, under maintained and operated by thirdworlders, preety sure we can manage avoiding that
>>64565792>(2 per tube)Gee bill, how come your mom lets you have 2 Lightweight anti-submarine torpedoes per tube?
>>64599000And the tiny 1500t U32 did pic related back in 2013, with actual records, not just a CGI with projected numbers, so your point is ? >captcha:WSSWN
>>64599261>our so called "allies"Kek, it's not the 1600s anymore.>>64599299Swedes are so cucked right now that they are the least of our problems to be honest.P.S. Although they should gibb back ze stolen loot.
>>64599449Cool story bruh. Still not buying the 212CD.
*taps sign*As a friendly reminder there is a special UK/DPRK only club that only Yono and Churchill class submarines are allowed in. The USN and Russia aren't invited, they don't meet the clubs exacting standards.
>>64600958once an enemy, always an enemy.
in other submarine news, Norway wants to expand its order of Type 212CD to 6 from previously 4Germany may also expand its order from 6 currently to 9and Germany+Norway will set up a second production line to speed up constructionI hope Canada will join the program too, would mean 12 more orders and probably another production line across the Atlantic
>>64592761>Why was this post deleted? They are obviously wrong but it didn't break any rules that i know of.I've killed several threads by making posts that are on topic and irrefutable. The jannies just delete everything when threads do not go the way the 96th Test Wing (Eglin air force base) wants. The poles bought the swedish sub because they were offered the loan of an used Gotland class in the meantime as their old Kilo is clapped out from polish maintenance.
>>64598660If you increase the temperature that the stirling engine works at, you will not only increase power output, you will also increase the effiency of fuel conversion into electricity, cutting into fuel cell territory.
>>64599088The USS Scorpion, a Skipjack class SSN, was probably lost from a lead acid battery fire. Lithium phosphate batteries are much safer than lithium ion but have half as much watt hours per kilogram. Still about 2-3 times as much as a lead acid battery per kilogram.
>>64602122>I've killed several threads >I've>The jannies >oh no i'm being oppressedYou are totally full of shit and are somehow a more insufferable asshole than i am, just fuck off and leave us alone.
>>64602128Except stirling only has a 40% efficiency, literally peasant tier compare to the BZM34/BZM120 on 212a/214. At lower output, PEMFC efficiency is just under 70%, and even at nominal power load, they are still around 55%.Not to mention Stirling diving depth limit, iirc it's around 200m.The much bigger Soryu at 4000t has 4x75kW stirling for a total 300kW output, that's not even enough for 5 knots transiting.the smaller 212a at 1800t submerged has 9x34kW=306kW. A bigger 212cd will easily carry much more, hence a higher tactical speed.TLDR: PEMFC is pretty much the only currently feasible if you want both fast transiting(still not as fast as nuclear subs, obviously) and long endurance.fuel cell only drawback is their price tag. Though seeing the amount that poles will be paying for a26, im not even sure if poles procurement is either smart or efficient at all
>>64598660btw, no, the reformer efficiency is above 90% and quite compact. Ashore testing has been done for like 2 decades, so its not like the datas is lacking somehow.Aussie ditching 216 offer for frog diesel electric with LAB was the biggest lul back then, at least they remedied with AUKUS
>>64602042Not how it works, but we shouldn't forget.
>>64602192>poles procurement is either smart or efficient at allIt's not, and in the end, it's all political anyway.
>>64598660>They've been trying to make methanol fuel cells work for a pretty long time.I wonder when they will make ethanol fuel cells work, because I can't wait enough for vodka powered subs. Just imagine the engine compartment and its engineers during patrols.
>>64592761Don't worry about it.
Poland has a navy?
>>64606576Yeah, crazy right?https://youtu.be/vUAyiKz1zzg
>>64581494Wasn’t greta actually have a hateboner for russia?
>>64610288Because of oil and gas, duh!
>>64606576Even Swiss have a navy.
>>64611248Don't forget those Greenpeace hippies they jailed in Russia in subhuman conditions. I fucking hate Greenpeace but um yeah... the environmentalist euros got a taste of the Russian boot there. Must have been an eye opener for some.
>>64611290>Don't forget those Greenpeace hippies they jailed in Russia in subhuman conditions.Very IRONIC, considering Greenpeace gets Russian rubles.
>>64611248>>64610288>>64611306I was thinking of the insane amount of pollution, radioactive waste and mile wide open pit asbestos mines Russia produces. People like Greta can't really do much about it since Russia will just jail, torture or kill them but they sure as hell don't like them.
>>64611398>insane amount of pollution, radioactive waste and mile wide open pit asbestos mines Russia produces.That too, of course.
>>64611306>Very IRONIC, considering Greenpeace gets Russian rubles.Not really, given they were supposed act only in the west in the mind of russians, not look at the absurd crimes against the environment/citizens happening at home like picrel (gee i wonder where Norilsk is on that map)They did that with a lot of different groups, anti-nuclear movements in Germany among others supported full blast, but when the ideas seeped over to East Germany their response was>Shut up and dig the fucking ditch traitor, if we have nukes it's fineThis has led to a visible split in peace movements nowadays, between the young guys asking themselves >if we're against war shouldn't we also condemn Russias invasion?and the old farts that are mostly russian stooges for life
>>64611995>they were supposed act only in the west in the mind of russians, not look at the absurd crimes against the environment/citizens happening at home like picrel (gee i wonder where Norilsk is on that map)DING DING DING!
>>64611995>This has led to a visible split in peace movements nowadaysThat's where Greta becomes a nuisance to the people who wanted to use the environmental movement to undermine the west; she is popular enough to not need support and has literal Rothschild money backing her so she can do whatever annoying thing she feels like doing.
>Cockcum
>>64566204It’s decent
>>64567327>TurkeyYou must be massively retarded to think you can trust them.
>>64596725So... you did.
>>64616347Of course they did!
>>64601724Wasn't there a Jeet or Paki sub that scored a kill in 1971? Or is that too far back for your club?
>>64617925Not at all, it's the post WW2 wartime kill club.
>>64617972>>64617925Damn it, let them in i guess:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Hangor_(S131)
>>64617977>>64617972Interesting wiki error: Footnotes for both the Hangor and Conqueror are wrong citing each other as the only post WW2 submarine warship kills, the nameless Yono isn't mentioned.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Conqueror_(S48)
>>64593547>those faggy dog avatars are still making you scream at night?Even better, the zigger is complaining that NAFO infiltrated the jannies when we know that the opposite is true.They're really complaining that there are still some non-zigger jannies left and this is intolerable to them because they still get 3d b&s sometimes.Every accusation from a zigger is a confession.
>>64592761>Why was this post deleted? They are obviously wrong but it didn't break any rules that i know of.That's usually a sign that they're a zigger spamming more obvious stuff in another thread and all their posts got nuked for it.The fact that they b&-evaded instead of taking 3days kind of confirms that they're a shill, troll or /pol/tard shitposter.The Eglin reference just tells us which schizo-shitposter zigger it is.
>>64611995What the fuck is going on in Botswana there?
>>64618063Same reason as Norilsk, a massive nickel mine
>>64617998>b&-evaded instead of taking 3days kind of confirms that they're a shill, troll or /pol/tard shitposterMakes sense, i always take my bans with pride. If you evade it proves you are a troll instead of expressing your unfiltered dogshit opinion.
>>64617998Meds.
>>64565792>The much bigger Soryu at 4000t has 4x75kW stirling for a total 300kW output, that's not even enough for 5 knots transiting. The final two Soryu's built don't have AIPs and only use LIBs. And obviously the Taigei class followed suit, no AIP, LIBs only. https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2025/10/japan-launches-6th-taigei-class.html?m=0
>>64621242Just stop shilling, it’s that easy.
>>64622405MEDS.
>>64619060>>64617998>a sign that they're a zigger spamming more obvious stuff in another thread and all their posts got nuked for it.That's usually true, but this one looks like grotard, the "polish" jeet spammer from the other threads, he often needs several tries to post something barely coherent, deleting and reposting in the process
>>64622851you're sick in the head, i constantly see you spamming "grotard" grotard" "grotard" like holy fuck you obsessed retard get a grip
>>64563614Why is a BBC raising up from the water?
>>64624767Sweden.
>>64623573>grotardWait, so you see "grotard" but not the the lolcow in question, even when he spams >100 posts in a thread? How peculiar kek
>>64626240not everyone is a "grotard" okayyy, get a life
>>64624969Ahh right! Of course, I'm dumb...
>>64567082bullshit
>>64567082Daily reminder that the Germs tried to destroy Kockums and Sweden's abilities to build subs.
>>64567082Proofs?
>>64631779>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine>HSwMS Halland (Hnd) >Laid down 21 October 1994 >Launched 27 September 1996 >Commissioned 1996
>>64632428>>Launched 27 September 19962025 - 1996 = 29(!)So not "30" years, but less, check mate, mate.
>>64563614Sweden isn't real.
>>64637878B-but how will we get our A26s if that's the case?!
>>64618063They kno da wae.
>>64630891>Daily reminder that the Germs tried to destroy Kockums and Sweden's abilities to build subs.They were successfull because the swedish government ceased to fund submarine R&D and purchases after the Gotland class. The only reason the poles buy this sub is because it is neither german nor russian and they also get to borrow a Gotland class in the meantime because their clapped out 40 year old Kilo is not seaworthy any more. The polish A26 sub is scheduled for delivery in 8 years (!). Kockums have to start over from zero.
>>64643841>They were successfullAh, so I was right. Germs are fucking euro-kikes.
>>64643841>Kockums have to start over from zero.No way.
>>64566215Yonos are crewed by 19 guys and that includes the Political Officer and a stick of frogmen.
>>64648840A26 crew: 17-26
>>64647945Either that, or they’ll have to bring those boomers out of retirement, and that’s if their experience still relevant enough for today
>>64654333>Either that, or they’ll have to bring those boomers out of retirement,It's not like they don't have documents of the know-how of said boomers to be accessed for new workers.
>>64567130MSBS debacle? I thought they managed to scrape a decent rifle together?As for the rest the successive governments try really hard to undo whatever the previous government did because le previous government bad and then retards eat it up. Really just need a whole new political class that's less retarded and on the take.
>>64658409>I thought they managed to scrape a decent rifle together?Yeah, in the end they did, but it was such a hot fucking mess, mate.>a whole new political class that's less retardedNot how it works, tho.
>>64567384Moron America can produce more drones than your shitty country. Also as we saw in ww2, you can build all the cheap shit you want but it doesn't matter if it can't get to the frontline.
>>64655812Having documents is not the same thing as understanding the documents. It takes decades to teach people how to do it.
>>64599261>>64599299very organic 'how can you cooperate? generations ago you had conflicts, you should now be mad at eachother' points, 50 rublecents have been deposited to your accounts (split two ways)
