Post gear, discuss gear.1,011 Days Edition.Old: >>64569353>Thread theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-sMJZTYf0
>I love a good Threa in the morning./gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Quick and dirty "what plates should I buy on a budget?"SRT (M855A1): Hesco T212.Level III + M855: Expired Hesco 3611.Level III + M855A1: Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513. 3411 is preferable. Wildcard Protech 2120-5.Level IV: Hesco 4403. If broke Gilliam 1023.Level IV + M993 / Swiss P AP: Gilliam 8002.Level IV + M2AP going really fast: Protech 2230Last time on /bag/ wait I mean /gq/, angry area man argued body armor is pussy shit and it's better to die like a man than writhe around on the ground like a bitch. Anon wants to sell most of his shit. Anon #2 decided he was going to ride out the apocalypse as a ninja turtle. Safelife's flexible rifle armor is total ass. Rusanon is bulking up on protein powder and eggs so he can run four side plates on one carrier, and anon #3 got a bridge for his thermal.RMA is still ass. Safelife is also pretty ass.
>>64588806Yeah, but beats the alternative of getting droned in 4k ultra hd.
>>64588756This pic has that same energy as /fit/ poasting made-up preworkout supplements. I laffed, even though I sympathize very much with the plight of DNR mobiks.>>64588776>Rusanon is bulking up on protein powder and eggs so he can run four side plates on one carrierI might, actually. I've been trying to cut lately, even went on drugs (did you know Russia has universal basic Ozempic?) and my wife got me a gym membership for my bday. But now that I think of it, the True Way is to permabulk so you can have a Br5+ Granit as your dick flap plate and run two side plates per cummerbund while swinging around a bulpupped PKP.>>64588828You're still getting droned in 4k ultra hd, anon, but the vid will look less like like today's aerobatic escapades and more like a gastroscopy video with your face at the end of the tube. With today's tech, making fully autonomous tunnel-crawling killer drones is trivial. "Screamers" (1995) is a cult classic for a reason.
>>64588756Can any of you hohol simps give an unironic rational argument for why you support them?>made-up 30 year old country comprised of people who are ethnically and linguistically indistinguishable from Russians>literally one of the most corrupt countries on earth>global hub for child sex trafficking and child porn>president is a Jew elected in a CIA-backed coup>all Jewish Ukrainians immediately evacuated to Israel as soon as the war started while all white Ukrainians aged 16-60 banned from leaving>nearly all Ukrainian women under 40 have left the country and become pregnant to foreigners in neighbouring countries and will never come back>daily videos of Ukrainian civilians getting kidnapped and thrown in vans>daily news articles of new Jewish members of the Ukrainian government stealing billions of dollars of aid and fleeing to Israel>every time Ukrainian troops get sent somewhere to get trained they try to desert into the French or English countrysideWhy the fuck are you simping for a bunch of good goys who got psyopped into a pointless war by a Jewish government whose women sold them out and cucked them.
>>64589163A well-reasoned position, I just want to add a few points:>comprised of people who are ethnically and linguistically indistinguishable from Russians... who were that whole time treated as second-class citizens in relation to the wholly Balkanoid "real Ukrainian" Galician and Carpathian peasants. A significant part of them developed enough of a Stockholm syndrome over that to become nazis for that particular half-baked identity and actually fight for it, while the "real ukrainians" in the west part were largely extempt from draft until very recently. It's as much of a hillbilly-occupied government as it's a traditional zog, and both parts hate each other just slightly less than they hate the eternal moskal' for not giving them enough gibs. >president is a Jew elected in a CIA-backed coupIs a Jew comedian elected in a second(!) CIA-backed coup in a decade, because the first batch of CIA-backed coup-ers were too cockhol to actually follow through with suicidal "war against Russia" agenda, and instead cozied back up to it and kept sucking the teat.>nearly all Ukrainian women under 40 have left the country and become pregnant to foreigners in neighbouring countries and will never come backAnd a lot of their children will grow up to be cockhols as well. Westoid right-wiggers welcoming them into their countries as "based white refugees" are psyoping themselves into the same longhouse that cockhols are burning down inside of right now. Hard to blame them, that southern pussy is hell of a drug, but it's gonna end the same.
Recommend me whatever you consider the Hesco of ballistic helmets
>>64589245No such thing, but this pasta is accurate:> Phase Zero:> Buy surplus ACH in your size> Phase one (non-optional):> Replace pads (PGD is a really good choice here)> Replace retention system (Ops-Core H Nape)> Phase Two, in order of priority (optional, if you have extra money and are not /pfg/):> Add rails (Ops-Core only, fuck Mlok.)> Add shroud (Wilcox only, the others can be a gamble or have compatibility issues)> Add ceramic rifle applique (HHV-Adept)> Add helmet cover/scrim (lots of options)> Then you will have a helmet that's in a lot of ways better than an off the shelf Ops-Core or TW at about half the price.
>>64588756https://lowvisual.com/products/lvr-28-baja-blast-pre-orderwhere can i source this kind of cordura from? alibaba?
>>64589316ate my pic. its baja blast desert
>>64589066>Br5+ Granit as your dick flap plate and run two side plates per cummerbund while swinging around a bulpupped PKP.Based beyond belief. 7N37 cock protection.>>64589163Some of them wear 8x10 hesco plates as rifle rated groin flaps, which is based but not as based as full armor boner tactic in >>64589066. That's my only argument senator.
I took the plates out of my improvised vest and put a kevlar back panel in it, plus wove the neck protector permanently into the collar and added a lower back panel. In reworking it I sort of fucked over the attach points for my Italian neck plate and groin panel but that's nothing another scuffed hackjob and some light sewing can't fix. Anyway give me suggestions for more modifications. I'm thinking of adding some faulds just because I have the option but I want some more ideas.
>>64590424Anon thinks he's part of Caesar's legion lmao. AVE TRUE TO CAESAR.
>>64590424Why did you take the plates out? I'm going to make some improv forearm and shin IIIA using cheap 6x8s off ebay and some duct tape / onewrap. Maybe forearm armor could be helpful.Otherwise I suggest armoring the femorals.
>>64590484As cool as the whole assembly is it's got a real tight collar and having the extra ~12 pounds on the shitty ass airsoft shoulder straps was enough to bruise the muscles at the base of my neck on a hike. RN I'm thinking of just buying a slick micro carrier to wear over/under the whole kevlar assembly instead of having it be integral. It's not the most svelte but then again neither is 10 pounds of soft armor.>FemoralsAlready sort of covered >>64590457Anon I can assure you that the Romans did not wear a mix of UCP, M81, duct tape and NWU
>>64589163>ethnically and linguistically indistinguishable from Russiansthis is what your mind on gulag imperialism really believes
>>64590603You corn head.
>>64590635Bruh, half of us literally have\had blood relatives over there, we'd know for sure if they were ethnically distinct from us or not.Unless you're actually from Galicia, Volyn or Transcarpathia, being a cockhol is a political choice, and one that most of that population didn't even consciously make (as usual with large populations and impactful political choices).Ukraine is one of the most retarded nation-crafting projects of the 20th c., mostly because it's separatist rather than integralist in nature, but also because it was performed by probably the most marxoid govt. to ever stain the face of this Earth. I freely admit we're way too late in doing something about it (and I blame Putin for being a cuck on the national q.), but it's natural and inevitable that Russia would eventually handle its business. WTF y'all are so mad about it anyway?>>64590424Horrifying desu. If I was raiding a residence and this came out at me, I'd shid myself a little and magdump just in case.Seriously though, sometimes autistically reinventing already existing stuff from first principles and\or tight budget yields real innovation. I wish you luck in your endeavor.
How does a slick carrier with say 4403s compare to a full on 3A soft armor vest in terms of concealability? I know they’re both for different threats but I’m just asking in terms of concealment
>>64591161You're still retarded because Russian is the odd one out among Slavic languages. While most Slavic languages have some degree of mutual intelligibility as they evolved alongside one another, Russian was constructed with resort to loan words from other languages (such as French) because the Russian aristocracy didn't even speak Russian so it remained a peasant language. That's why at the start of the 2022 war Russians mostly fought Russian-speaking Ukrainians on the radio, but then when mobilized men started joining the ranks the retards thought they were all Polish HATO mercs. Because to them Ukrainian sounded like Polish and they thought Ukrainian was just Russian with a funny accent.>it was performed by probably the most marxoid govt. to ever stain the face of this EarthBut that's not even true. The Bolsheviks tried to take over Ukraine. While Ukraine couldn't take total victory the Russians couldn't conquer it either, so the compromise was that the Bolsheviks accepted Ukraine as one of the Soviet republics in the Soviet Union rather than try to integrate it into the Russian republic.Marxists didn't create Ukraine. Ukraine created itself through force.
>>64589231>Is a Jew comedian elected in a second(!) CIA-backed coup in a decadePetro Poroshenko won in 2014. Zelensky won in 2019 via election. You people don't even know the timeline of events, holy shit.
>>64590603>slick micro carrier over softISAPO back from the dead I see. Maybe switch plates to Level III PE? That gets you to 6-6.5lb a set with budget plates, but you concede M855. This is ill-advised but if you have a tight weight target, is what is. Soft armor alone will get merked by rifles of all flavors.>FemoralsJinwudun sends their regards. Embrace true roman.>>64591182Soft armor vest is going to be thinner (some IIIA panels are under 0.2" thick) but it'll still print unless you wear sufficient clothing over.
>>64591508Yes, you are correct. It took 2 color revolutions (I distinctly remember celebrating New Year 2004 with a heavily US-affiliated organization that explicitly awarded people for participating in the first Maidan as part of the celebration), three seasons and an OVA of a relatively high-budget (for Ukraine) TV show starring him as the first and only honest president in the history, and a set of campaign promises he always intended to break (stop the civil war and get back on Russia's good side) to give Ukraine its first truly Jewish president. >>64591481>that pic, lolThat's been debunked to hell and back, and there are enough words in all of the languages mentioned that I can make a mutual intelligibility chart showing Ukrainians are Turks. Maidan is an explicitly turkish word, for example. All this proves is that the People's Comissariat of Nationalities worked hard to separate the peoples and "republics" of its new "union" as far from Russians as it could. This was Stalin's firs govt. job, btw.This is all well documented, starting from Lenin's explicit orders to de-Russify as much population as possible by any means necessary. In Ukraine, they just built on the work done by Hapsburg Empire's authorities (that built first ever european concentration camp specifically to de-russify and ukrainize Carpathian Rusyn), rather than starting from scratch as with Belarus or Kazakhstan (lol, even the word "kazakh" is stolen and tacked on, the native nomads called themselves kyrgyz).>but then when mobilized men started joining the ranksfuck all changed. The "true ukrainian" native speakers weren't mobilized at all until mid-'24, and with massive local protests, at that.>The Bolsheviks tried to take over UkraineThey succeeded. After the last of the White forces left via Crimea, they squashed the armed separatists like Makhno easily. They then invited local "intellectual" separatists (those who weren't in the Party already) to join the new "independent" govt.
>>64591716That's, uh, some history lesson. Can we get BR6 plates yet comrade?
>>64591818I can only do Br5+, and only if Trump's PeaceDeal(tm) comes together soon(tm). Otherwise, we'll be in for "United Europe gets uppity with Russia pt.4: They Never Learn" and all the plates will be busy. Such cases, bratan. Personally, I'd be glad to hand-deliver a container or two of Russia's finest MIC produce to the brave freedom fighter of America, but I'm a civilian atm and don't make any decisions beyond my own.Good news is Donnie sent his jewest to negotiate, so we might see some progress.
>nooo you can't invade me I am totally a different countryNorway and Sweden and Denmark are the same country. England and Ireland are the same country. Spain and Portugal are the same country. Romania and Moldova are the same country. America and Canada are the same country. Russia and Ukraine are the same country.If you disagree you are a mindbroken directionbrain faggot hooked on jew propaganda
>>64591912Well, that's the only way to step up protection atm from a Gillie 8002 or Adept Colossus, is what it is.I'm debating on emailing Gilliam and asking about the R&D costs on a .338 rated plate. After all, I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18″ bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and “catch the rounds” while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.
is there no way to rig a crotch protector to pasgt vest?
>>64591912I want this shit to end soon so I can restart collecting Russian/Soviet gear that's pretty obscure outside of /k/ollector circles again. Picrel, one of my first buys, 1991 Butan in a VDV cut
>>64592249Anything is possible, but you might have to sew on additional velcro or PALS strips depending on your crotch protector.>>64592281I want these BR5+ granits to show up grey market so we can stop actually-modern AP ammunition.
>>64592289Amen to that. Hopefully when they show up you don't get sent the fake granits that were rattling around a few years ago
>>64592343I'm honestly surprised "fake plates" aren't more of a problem. For example, what's stopping some shady ass motherfucker on the fifth floor of Chungking Mansions or wherever from taking $29.00 Linry plates and replacing the cover / label with a doppelganger of Hesco, LTC, Highcom, or RMA? Ship them into the US same way they get signal jammers in. Vast majority of plates in civilian hands are never shot, so they'd last a long time pulling that party trick.
>64592378Wait, shit, I forgot about Shotstop. Took about eight years for them to get made.
where do sell-off all your stuff? Besides ebay
So what is /gq/s recommendation for a decent ballistic helmet?
>>64592853I'm not the man to ask but team wendy is legit if you don't mind payingI have a PGD but some people question the quality of their builds
>>64592861I dont view it as important as plates but I want something that will at least stop pistols (discourage rifles)
>>64592861WTF these prices are definitely beyond me
Sorry for 3 posts but yeah PGD is definitely more my speed? Whats supposed to be wrong with them?
>>64592863A2slop probably has better recommends even tho he's a bit of a faggotronhelmets really only protect against frag and pistols safely if you want to stop or discourage rifles you'll want a SLAAP plate
>>64592873Well I guess Ill just have to settle for pistols. I didnt really mean that about the rifles.
>>64592873https://youtu.be/tmUXoq37rvEwatch some reviews and ballistic tests from small channels because larger ones are just shillsa few guys don't like how the stuff is set up and the rails. I bought a different shroud for mine and the rails work with my shitty unity ear mounts but as that video shows some shit can be loose due to how they're madeit's also heavy I have a thick ass neck so I don't notice but a lot of guys get neck issues with heavier helmets
>>64592879>>64592889whoops linked wrong post
>>64592893>>64592889sorry im not familiar with most channels beyond the basics like dirty civillian (larp) and garand larper. i like southernprepper1 but he hasnt made anything like this since 2010.
Larp just means training. Someone who is larping is just someone training. A lot of those youtube channels are straight up feds.
>>64592908I didnt say larping was bad. i larp hardwhich channels are feds? some make me downright suspicious
>>64592908I've come around to watching crazy ass schizo larpers nowit's more fun12spies is great for that stuff>>64592900I would just type "PGD helmet" into youtube and watch some dudes talk about it and shoot it, it did get shilled a lot by guntubers
Do any of you remember that guy that had a diesel dirtbike and low budget gear and really good recommendations? His channel got axed I think. He may have been a workout channel before a tactical channel. I dont remember.
>>64592908Sure buddy. Keep “training” I’m sure going to help you not get blown-up by a government drone. >what do you mean my 4000+ hours of CQB “training” in my own home didn’t protect me from the SWAT APC that ran through my walls and squashed me flat?! All may favorite jewtubers told me how it would make me a le-heckin based armed citizen read to fight le ebin evil government! I even bought a pair of $20,000 NODs like my favorite zogbot influencer so I could own the night!
>>64592929>But what if a tank runs you overThat would be horrible
>>64592941It would be extremely painful
>>645929464u
>>64592911Most of them are ran by ex CIA contractors who popped up around the same time with similar content. Shawn Ryan and The FieldCraft Survival Channel come to mind. I recall during covid FieldCraft created an email list to sign up for to basically mount an insurrection if it went tits up. Shawn Ryan started out with high production having events and guests. Tucker Carlson who is also tied to the CIA goes onto his show which is strange imo. By the guests he has on it seems a narrative is being drawn. They all promote SIG which is a large MIC contractor. I think thumb and vickers are legit. Just my own thoughts but they are CIA spooks or at least were then after trump was elected started making content.
>>64592969Kinda wanna start my own YouTube channel for fun testing and min-maxxing gigapoorfag loadouts without all the corpo shilling. But also don’t know if it would be any good and I don’t wanna do it if it ends up being slop. > Tucker Carlson who is also tied to the CIASomeone post the picture it will never not be funny.
>>64593010shortshot tony is a dude on pootube who reviews knockoff chinese gear side by side with the legit stuff so it's definitely a thing people are interested in
>>64592879A surplus ECH will get you some protection against limited rifle threats. Basically just 7.62x39mm ball or mild steel core. Check ebay, tacswap, armslist, gunbroker for price shopping purposes.
whats a good and really large sized FR Balaclava? like size 8 1/4 hat big
>>64592853ACH (preferably GEN 2) or ECH depending on desired protection. Ceradyne BA3A or old Protech if you need a budget "IIIA" solution. Keep in mind all "IIIA" or above helmets meet arbitrary requirements because NIJ doesn't have an official IIIA for helmets. The standard, 0106.01, hasn't been updated in decades and only goes up to II. Better to stick to military reqs if you need good BFD performance as well.>>64592786Tacswap or Gunbroker. They're more seller friendly.>>64592863ECH is good there. A lot of non-military rifle helms will be iffy on BFD.>>64592889Seconded on the shill problem. If they have affiliate links it's an automatic conflict of interest and IMO should be a disqualifier or at least a heavy warning. If they don't, half are probably not disclosing their reviews are comped. Shilltube is out of control. We're at the point people are paid full time to rep on reddit. Youtube will only be worse.
>>64592853>>64592868Surplus ECH or ACH if you can't find an ECH. Replace pads with 4D pads.
>>64592853What is your budget?>>64592873>A2slop probably has better recommends even tho he's a bit of a faggotronTouch grass bro, cant be talking like this
>>64594539be less of a fag and people won't call you a fagfag
>>64593010> budget armor testsWould be fun as fuck, have also thought about doing that, though I'm broke. Would also be cool to see non ballistic armor being tested. Can a motorcycle helmet stop +p JHP? Can you cut through plastic riot armor with an axe? Always wanted to find out.
>>64594539NTA but i'm poor. Would prefer $800 if at all possible for a reliable ballistic helmet.
>>64594730Complete ballistic helmets are going to be in either the 3-3.5lb range or the 1.3-1.5lb rangeThe 3-3.5lb range can easily be had between $400-$800 from most vendors and indeed will protect your head.The 1.3-1.5lb will be in the $1000-$1900 price rangeIMHO the 1.3-1.5lb helmets are well worth the extra spend. This helmet is going to get and additional 2lb with your headset and NVG so youre really looking at like roughly 3.3 vs ~5lb.This makes a huge difference if youre actually using your shit for a prolonged period of time scanning up and down buildings. Also the likelihood of neck injuries from heavier helmets is very concerning esp in rough terrain.Thankfully helmets do last a really long time when not handled like enlisted gorillas so you will be making a decent purchase for a couple years. As such id really stretch your budget as much as you reasonably can.>Specific brandsStandard weight:-PGD-Surplus ECH/ACH you rebuild suspension on-Highcom budget offeringsLightweight:-Avon N49/3M ULW-Mtek Flux (buy airsoft helmet and ensure the neck nape clears your head geometry first)-Opscore Fast whatever the fucking current gen is-Honorable mention: The higher end highcom helmets are nearly there but still heavier than contemporaries.My 3M ULW I bought years ago is lighter than an opscore bump helmet and has been fantastic, they are annoying to find now but really worth the money after coming off a 3.5lb helmet. Lighter that helmet is, the more youre going to wear it. The more you wear it the less likely you are to trip on a piece of concrete and become a casualty.
>>64594657Buffman or Oxide but for regular people and without the drama? Sounds wonderful. Call yourself... Layman.>>64594730Surplus ECH and use the change for upgrading suspension and pads.
Just an FYI, that dude from two threads ago still has eight Protech 2230 Level IVs in stock. $200 a plate, ~450 a set with fees and other crap tacked on. 7.5lb, 1.2" thick multi-curve. Beats a Hesco 4403 on specs badly but is expired (which doesn't really matter).https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1139132598
>>64594502It's not 2015. 4D Pads are way worse than PGD pads, and a lot of other companies sell pads that are better than 4D pads. >>64594793> Complete ballistic helmets are going to be in either the 3-3.5lb range or the 1.3-1.5lb rangeWTF is this? Are you talking about shell weight or something? The latest gen Ops-Core is 2.1 Pounds in Size L. There's no such thing as a lighter ballistic helmet, except for the Mtek Flux which has a totally fucked up micro-shell-geometry. All of the helmets you mention, like the N49, are well over 2 pounds.
>>64594882> Mtek FluxSorry, I meant to say "ballistic yarmulke."
>>64594882>Are you talking about shell weight or something?Close enough
>>64594882>It's not 2015I wish it was bro.
>>64594886Nah not really. There are 2.5 pound combat helmets and 3.5 pound combat helmets. If you really want to pay top dollar you can get a 2.1 pound Ops-Core FAST SF for $2000. Most bump helmets are around that weight, or slightly lighter, but few or none are as light as 1.3 pounds.
>>64594896a2 btfo'd once again. Many such cases.
>>64594896>There are 2.5 pound combat helmets>you can get a 2.1 pound>What did you need a 1.85lb helmet (https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/product-page/highcom-striker-lightweight-level-iiia-loaded-high-cut-combat-helmet) for ? etc etc
>>64594908>links lyin' Apex for anythingGood lord...
>>64594919And tbqh the mtek flux doesnt have tiny helmet syndrome it has weird nape that goes down too far for lots of people. Covered area is about the same as a current fast sf.
>>64594928>run-on sentence to the wrong anonI'm not >>64594882 cap.
>>64594938I dont recall asking
>>64594793>>64594823Thanks, I'll look into these, appreciate it.
>>64594882>PGD padsWhat makes them better?>other companies sell pads that are betterSuch as? I'm genuinely curious. I have a retarded head which is too big for a M/L and too small for the next size up. the 4D pads I bought for my next size up did not help.
>>64594953Glad to help. Milspec helmets avoid the "So what's IIIA?" shitshow inherent with commercial IIIA helmets. Also don't buy anything from Apex as expressed by >>64594919. Apex is shitlisted just about everywhere for multiple reasons. Highcom has been shady lately with multiple products and also should be avoided IMHO.
>>64594908That's shell weight, lmao. Finished helmet again way over 2 pounds.Just Apex playing Apex games.Most "ultra lightweight" helmets are 2.5 pounds in complete/usable form. There's ONE 2.1 pound helmet (Ops Core FAST SF, updated 2025 version) and there's the Mtek Flux which is weird. >>64594928lol. Picrel is an official promotional image from Mtek. That fucking thing is barely covering the guy's head. It's cut too high, the side of his skull is totally exposed. It's literally a ballistic yarmulke.
>>64595018>Apex is lyingTalk about salt, its the spec sheet weight from highcom>Most "ultra lightweight" helmets are 2.5 pounds in complete/usable form.>Posts a 2.2lb complete/usable helmet ITTI dont know what to tell you man>It's cut too high>Look this photo proves itWeird but okay thanksWhere was the email from the opscore employee about helmet coverage again?
>>64594539>What is your budget?Low
>>64594963> What makes them better?They're more comfy and the cover feels better on the skin over long periods of wear. They also don't seem to absorb sweat as much or as quickly.> Such as?Micro-Lattice pads don't absorb sweat at all, and they're very light and comfy.
>>64595050And Highcom is talking "shell weight" (which is a bullshit metric) not "finished product weight". Seriously are you retarded?
>>64595062Airsoft bump helmet you put a unity shroud on>>64595072Call out the right people for lying goofus.
>>64595074I think we can agree that Highcom and Apex are both faggots.
>>64595074Low but high enough to afford a ballistic helmet
>>64595050>Talk about salt, its the spec sheet weight from highcom>tfw A2 runs cover for Apex of all peopleAh yes, the same spec sheets that call ~9x11 plates 10x12 and the 4SAS4 0101.06, and also fail to mention the 4S16 has no drop foam. Very trustworthy.>>64595074>>64595081Both Apex and Highcom have recently been very dishonest with several of their products. There was a debacle a few threads ago about the RCH - Apex's v0s are higher than Highcom's v50s. They both should be avoided at this point.
>>64592281Respecc, that's a really rare piece. I have a collector friend who even donates gear to local museums, and he doesn't have on of those yet.>>64595066>Micro-Lattice padsOh, cool. The Capytech CAPs we discussed a thread or two ago have very similar structure, and the reviews on those are great.
>>64595644>and the reviews on those are great.They're legit. They don't look soft, but they feel soft, you get airflow, and they're way easier to clean than conventional foam pads. Things were different in 2015, but in 2025 you'd have to be a brainlet to buy 4D Tactical pads when PGD pads are better at a lower price, and another $100 gets you micro-lattice pads.
>>64595644>>64595750I can see it now. 2026 will be the year of less sweaty helmet pads and trauma pads that are actually worth a damn.
Bit of a dumb question but is Eagle Industries stuff still gtg? Are their new products still American-made?
I fuckin' hate setting up new gear bros. There's just so many fucking straps, and micro adjusting to get it to sit just right. I get it all set up, but one side is like 1/4th of an inch too high. Get it all adjusted, and now I have to drop everything another 1/2 inch to work with my plate carrier. I've been fucking with these straps for an hour now.
>>64589317Ngl, a matching paintjob would be trick.
>>64595825lol
>>64595829Dude it took me two hours to get my Jinwudun IIIA kilt's suspenders to play nice with my PC. I feel ya brah.
>>64596051I gave up. I just have to accept my belt kit isn't going to work with my plate carrier. It's fine, I bought the belt kit to throw in my car as a 'get home kit' anyway.
>>64595829>I fuckin' hate setting up new gearI love it. When adjusted, the FLC is great, dorks who spurg hate for FLC can't into strap adjustment. It may take time, but totally worth getting it just right.
>>64596082Where is it hanging up?
>>64588776I snagged a pair of RMAs and a shit ass condor rig just to kinda feel out what its even like to have armor.. at the BARE MINIMUM I trust it to stop pistol/shotgun ammo but Ive read enough here to be wary of it stopping anything fast and pointy.. anyway...what is the next step for someone doing LARP in their house? a set of those Hesco T212s? also I keep buying dumb shit when really I should save for like NVG's.
>>64596126Where I have it now, it's sits perfectly on my hips to distribute the weight, which is what an LBE is supposed to do. However, it's too high up with my pc on, so it's a pain to get access to the pouches. If I adjust it lower to access the pouches, the weight comes off my hips, and rests on my shoulders. Which defeats the purpose of an LBE, and then I have the LBE and pc resting on my shoulders.
>>64596143forgot to say pic unrelated its a mockup of my AR pistol.. parts are on the way, I had like half a gun worth of AR pistol so I may as well make it a whole gun
>>64596143>what is the next step for someone doing LARP in their houseSet up your RMA in the basement and shoot it with a 6" 44 Remington Magnum. Post results.
>>64596143What model from RMA? That'll determine which Hesco, LTC, Protech, etc is the best overall upgrade.>a set of those Hesco T212s?These are Hesco's entry level plates for "street" threats. It's like an L210 and will get blown out by .308. It's optimized entirely for M855A1 and very basic 7.62x39mm threats (no BZ API).>also I keep buying dumb shit when really I should save for like NVG's.Well you did buy RMA...
>>64596163Buy an AA Shield inflatable trauma pad and rig it to one of the RMAs, then shoot with .308. This will harshly test their BFD reduction claims since RMA tends to cheap on backers and their plates run high BFD.
Deal alert. Sierratac has Hesco 4601s on sale for $899 a set, shooter 10x12. https://sierratac.com/product/hesco-600-series-armor-level-4-stand-alone-plate-4601/
>>64596163I have two of them and when I got a new set I actually thought about doing this, to post here lmao. I have one multicurve and one single so I could sacrifice the single curve at least, for science.>>64596177the 1155's, while they were on sale like a few months ago and I had some cash burnin a hole in my ass. They were just SO fucking cheap, and I just kinda bit the bullet (lol) on getting a set that isn't dogshit. I've done my best inspection of them and they're fine(no corner dents, uneven surface, both plates are the same weight etc etc), and obviously next to actually blasting it with my own guns I'd not really know how well it would work. I knew what I was buying when I got them. I'm interested to know what it looks like under its cover cause of what I've read here about the ACTUAL coverage.I'm not like a retard over here using my bill paying money, I'm just very impulsive, but through my poor money management we can have another /k/ sponsored test. They've actually been a good learning lesson, because they're pretty fucking heavy and if most 'better' armor is actually also lighter, I can see that as just another reason to get a different set.but its been fun to larp with them and set up a kit, I can always change gear and keep the same 'concepts' of where I keep all my shit and how I like it, ya know? also I'm like way less worried about being zipped by AP rifle ammo then like some crackhead with a glock
>>64596328>for scienceA great go-fund-me project! Get 50 guys giving $5 and up and you could come out ahead on ammo.
>>64596193honestly I'm more interested to see all the "nice" RMA armor get tested.. is anyone fuckin buying these 500-600 dollar RMA plates when you can get Hescos for a little more?I feel like plenty of people have shot these cheap 1155s and the outcome seems to be it does stop bullets but like.. did you get the good lot of them? do you like having your chest bones smushed? did it hit the edge and go right fucking through it?
>>64596328>the 1155's, while they were on sale like a few months ago and I had some cash burnin a hole in my ass.Ah crap, literally the worst option.>I'm interested to know what it looks like under its cover cause of what I've read here about the ACTUAL coverage.These have a full strike face. It was the 1189 and first gen 1199 with the cheat rings.>they're pretty fucking heavy8.3lb will do that. Only Level IV plates heavier, other than tungsten or .50-cal rated, are the Highcom 4S17M if you make them use honest sizing (SAPI) and the discontinued, 9.5lb SAPI M AT Armor FFS4.>also I'm like way less worried about being zipped by AP rifle ammo then like some crackhead with a glockThe problem with the 1155, besides the FIT failure, is that the cheap alumina ceramic they used can't crack arrest for shit and two 1155s have lost to just two .308 each. That's a third of the NIJ Level III test. A Hesco 3801 that weighs 1.95lb stops six.
>>64596328>the 1155'sYou're... you're not joking, are you?
>>64596356>Nice RMA armorRMA used to have nicer plates. The 1192s were $1.4k a set, but they were discontinued due to "supplier issues" - there was a big controversy because Buffman got a set that performed admirably, but were 10oz heavier and 0.2" thicker than advertised. Apparently that was just a variance with the ceramic manufacturer, and that's normal guys, even though both plates were literally the same weight. RMA also had the boron carbide 1199, which was first the world's lightest Level IV at 4.4lb for a 10x12, until people found out a year after the plate launched that it only had 8x10 coverage on a 10x12. They later replaced it with a GEN2 version. You know RMA failed to disclose the cheat ring on the 1189, another discontinued plate, from 2013 until 2018, right? They also had a big scuffle where they were going to sue two Arfcommers at some point.>when you can get Hescos for a little more?4403 mogs the new 1155 GEN2 if you make RMA use honest sizing. Their latest trick is undersized 10x12s. The 1165, the "nice RMA" you're referencing, also has no drop protection. The current spin is that it's a less-than-overt Level IV. Buff wasn't allowed to drop it at all, that should tell you something.>I feel like plenty of people have shot these cheap 1155s and the outcome seems to be it does stop bulletsNot really. See pic related and below link. It fails against two 7.62x51mm. Look and see how much better the 4400 does.https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-body-armor/>did you get the good lot of them?Youtubers do!>did it hit the edge and go right fucking through it?I feel bad for all the people that got fucked by the 1189 and 1199 until RMA came clean in 2018.
>>64596376I'm not even going to refute anything you said, I know, I knew all that. The chances I'm shot with .308 are already like genuinely astronomical, the chances I'm going to get shot at ALL are pretty low. I got em to know what armor felt like to wear, while also probably being able to at least full-stop some crackhead with ball 9mm while I ventilate his face with 5.56.If anything I'm retarded for not buying some type of soft armor before I bought any kind of plates.. actually speaking of what are some soft armors with plate inserts? with the rise of flying explosive drones I feel like everyone needs to have their whole fuckin upper body in a condom of kevlar so you don't get DJI'dgood post though thanks, helpful unlike DICKHEAD BELOW YOU>>64596389we know, it was like 200 bro dollars relax lmao, I'm gunna get better ones some day but like I just said I think soft armor is almost just as important if you're worried about anything beyond small-time crime coming at you.. but also NVGs.. and thermals.. and better optics.. and I gotta detail my car interior.. and I just bought myself a RTX 5070... I'm not poor I'm just poor at keeping my money in my wallet lol
>>64596475You don't need to buy lower rated plates and then move up slowly. Buy cheap lvl IV plates and shut up
>>64596389I'm going to rec this guy buys a pair of Protech 2230s. Yes, they're expired, but they're about a pound lighter than the 1155s and are tough as fuck. Double the multi-hit at NIJ spacing versus the 4403 for 7.62x51mm M80 (6 vs 3) and they beat M2AP at 600ft/s OVER NIJ spec velocity. They're expired but going for $450/set on Gunbroker. If he's broke the Gilliam 1023s are $320 a set free shipping and stop six .30-06 M2AP owing to their mosaic tile array design, 7.3lb. The Hesco 4403 is just over $420/set usually but is NIJ certified. Protech 2230 WAS NIJ certified but is inactive because it was discontinued in 2019.If you want a laugh, the Gilliam 8002 (pic rel) is $800/set, just 0.1lb heavier than his 1155s, but stop tungsten AP threats like M993 and Swiss P AP with solid multi-hit. Single curve's a bitch though, better to stick with the 2230 or 4403 since they're proven performers.
>>64596475>while also probably being able to at least full-stop some crackhead with ball 9mm while I ventilate his face with 5.56.You're putting on... 16.6lb of plates just to stop ball 9mm?>actually speaking of what are some soft armors with plate inserts?Buy a BALCS carrier from Beez or somebody then deck that fucker with used IIIA panels, deltoids, a pair of good IVs, and a neck protector.>I just bought myself a RTX 5070That could have been a pair of Protech 2230s with change leftover bro. That card will be outdated in four years. Good plates never really expire.
>>64596449>I feel bad for all the people that got fucked by the 1189 and 1199 until RMA came clean in 2018like fucked as in lied to or their plate failed and they fuckin died? cause one is bad and like very shitty to do and the other is like a crime lolbut anyway I could actually do this same test one day, not that I'm in any rush to blast my plates before I got new ones and I'm not in a rush for that either, but one day I'm actually really interested to at least shoot my single curve. It's heavy as shit and sucks to wear on your front anyway.. don't worry though my 1155's currently serve as slightly expensive vest weights that happen to also stop maybe FMJ 5.56 which you gotta admit is a little less spicy then 7.62x51.. I got all sorts of calibers I can test, I could finish it off with a .500 magnum sendoff.
>>64596490No you can't do that, le pope DocGKR said Level IV bad 1!1!>Level IV is absolutely stupid, as it is designed to stop mid 20th century threats (ie. WWII era AP projectiles) that are virtually non-exisitant in CONUS. If you truly need to stop AP projectiles, then get something designed to stop modern AP threats, at a minimum late 20th century M995 and M993, and higher capability if facing 21st century AP loads.
>>64596499noo noo I'm putting the plates on for larping you goof, I don't think anyone is coming to shoot me lol, I'm just saying I have pretty good confidence despite the drama that it will full-stop a 9mm without me crumpling over with smushed ribs, AND will probably stop FMJ 5.56 which is like the next most likely threat I'd ever faceif people are shooting actual AP rifle ammo at me I'm already so fucked bro I don't even think I'd put that plates ON at that point, not my RMAs that's for sure cause Im gunna run inna woods with AK and wait till it ALLLL blows over.. Saddam myself into a hole in the ground.
>>64596522Buy trainer plates for cheap and leave the general then
>>64596490that's LITERALLY what RMA 1155's are dickhead, cheap lvl4s with questionable history
>>64596505>like fucked as in lied to or their plate failed and they fuckin died? cause one is bad and like very shitty to do and the other is like a crime lolLol, nobody died as far as I know. RMA just failed to disclose the plates had an edge of foam on each side so you only had 8x10 protection on a 10x12. That's a big deal, because they were aggressively marketing the 1199 as the world's lightest Level IV and it was MUCH lighter (and cheaper!) than the Hesco 4800. Also the 1189 had the same issue - for five years. It's probably not false advertising since NIJ only requires you have 6x8 coverage on a 10x12 (2" from edge fair hit rule) and people shouldn't assume edge-to-edge, but it's still super shitty of RMA because western manufacturers generally don't do that. Cheat rings are more-or-less a Chinese invention that RMA picked up - ostensibly for a "government contract" but they can never point to who actually used the plates.>stop maybe FMJ 5.56 which you gotta admit is a little less spicy then 7.62x51There's an apocryphal claim of some dude's 1155 losing to M855, but I've never seen the pictures or proof. Not to bust your balls, but the original 1155 is probably the third worst "domestic" US plate in recent memory. Second would be the Highcom 4SAS4, first a toss up between the RMA 1145 or the American Blast Systems Chinese-relabel 4.5lb, cheat-ringed-to-shit Level IV that lost so bad in a Buffman video they had to threaten legal action against him to get the vid taken down.
>>64596541Ultra-light level 4 bro, made in America bro
>>64596529it's gear queer general faggot, nobody is buying this shit going "YEAH YEAH TOMORROWS THE DAY I GET SHOT IN THE FUCKING CHEST">trainer plates for cheap>RMA plates actually stop a bullet and are cheap>put non-ballistic metal in your rig that doesn't do anything its just heavysorry did you think the 1155's were expensive? unironically more retarded then just buying AR500 steel and using that as trainer plates, those ALSO stop bullets even if the rest of the bullet flies directly into my cock, it's not flying directly into my aorta and making me die.
>>64596522>I don't think anyone is coming to shoot me lolYou never know until it happens. I hope it doesn't for any of us, but I can't control area crackheads that want your TV and also your wife and your dog.>I'm just saying I have pretty good confidence despite the drama that it will full-stop a 9mm without me crumpling over with smushed ribs, AND will probably stop FMJ 5.56So... nearly seventeen pounds of larp armor just to do that? Again, Hesco 3801s for 1.95lb a plate will handle M193 / basic 9x19mm fine. They will lose to M855 badly, but they're also $$.>if people are shooting actual AP rifle ammo at me I'm already so fucked broPlease, the world's not going to end because bad actors suddenly get black tip. I think a lot of people spending big $$$ on the featherweight boron carbide IVs will get a rude awakening if that happens, because those suck against tungsten threats, but this is why you don't chase weight targets and go with a robust performer if you're going to go with Level IV.>Im gunna run inna woods with AK and wait till it ALLLL blows overWoods means elmer with the .270 and maybe cleetus with the M855 that got sharpied over at the gun store to be "black tip SEAL specials" - so Hesco 3811?>>64596529This ain't /bag/ fool. I mean it's like 75% body armor discussion at this point but no need to smack his ass. He got played, a lot of us have been there.>>64596531Should'a gotten Gilliam 1023s. Anything Level IV under $400 a set is going to be a little iffy - those 1023s included. Anything under $300 is going to be real janky.
>>64596561That is uh... well... the biggest fucking cheat ring of all time.
>>64596565>I don't think anyone is coming to shoot me lol,Good news you don't need plates and don't need guns or gear. Feel free to go do anything else. >nobody is buying this shit going "YEAH YEAH TOMORROWS THE DAY I GET SHOT IN THE FUCKING CHEST"What's the point of spending money on real body armor if you actually think there is zero chance you might use it? That makes no sense.
>>64596565>AR500 steel and using that as trainer platesKnock knock brother. Highcum has a super special on that. $39 a plate!>https://tacticaledgeandarmor.com/product/highcom-guardian-ar500-level-iii-lightweight-steel-plate-promotionBenefit of these over the 1155 are:1. Active NIJ certification for Level IV.2. Massive multi-hit advantage.3. Very low BFD.4. Durability (ideal for trainers). You can throw steel plates out of a car going 70 MPH and they'll still work afterwards.And the only downsides are that they'll lose to M193 out of a 20", get smoked by M855A1 and above, and will spall all over your neck and chin and arms and legs. Real fun.
>>64596616>Level IVWhoops, meant Level III here! My bad! I was too busy having a laugh reminiscing about the 4SUS4 shitshow to proofread my shit.
>>64596600>if you actually think there is zero chance you might use it?IMO, you should HOPE there's zero chance you'll never need it, but still train with it so if and when the day comes you won't be shitting your pants because you haven't done anything in a PC before.
>>64596575>He got played, a lot of us have been therenot even, I made an educated (albeit impulsive) purchase based on what Ive read here and considered the actual likelihood of needing a rifle plate to be VERY low, but I still want to LARP and have something that can say, technically, stops a fast moving lead projectile from FLYING through my lung and killing me, hell it could stop a stupid ricochet off a rock while I'm off hiking with my retards and it's served its purpose. What's up with Gilliam? never heard of them till right now.also I have learned a lot of stuff just from wearing it in my shitty condor that I would have otherwise spent like 500 more dollars to learn..>plates are heavier then they sound, 8lbs x2 + all your mags and shit adds up fast>I hate velcro cummberbunds and how hard they are to don/doff (I actually chopped the side buckles off my condor and bought a cheap elastic QD one to try, much better)>there's 9 gorillion brands of kit, airsoft tier random brand shit WILL fall apart under basic use>don't buy anything from Aglite on amazon before you check their website and realize they're a bunch of jew lovers...remember faggots, knowledge is half the battle, the other half is unrestrained violence.
>>64596627Hoping there is a zero chance and thinking there is a zero chance are not the same. You should have a clear vision on what you are doing and why. If you don't you are retarded.
>>64596600sorry is this fucking faggot telling me I can't own guns because I'm not under direct threat from something? and you're telling ME to go away?fucking tourist, get the fuck out of /k/ and never come back.>what's the pointfor fun, you FUCKING FAGGOTno sorry I own a .500 S&W MAGNUM with solid hand cast wadcutters because I think a feral polar bear on PCP is going to break into my house and I need to completely destroy his entire CNS in a single shot and also kill my neighbors car engine.. and my hearing and probably any nearby closed windows depending how small the room is that I have barricaded myself intono actually I just have it because it's cool, suck my cock lmao post guns lmao
>>64596561Unironically A2 approved.
>>64596680Who said you cant or shouldn't own guns? Are you buying guns for fun at the range, self defense for a bump in the night, or whatever, you do you. Buying bullet proof body armor then saying it will never be used anyways so it doesn't matter is confused and annoying.
>>64596649>I made an educated purchase based on what Ive read hereDon't take this the wrong way, but you listened to five dudes yap for hours about how shit RMA is and then decided to buy RMA? Could have bought a pair of policesurp Protech 2014Gs for $200. I mean honestly at this point I'd hate to give RMA money just out of principle. They have too many cute tricks for what's supposed to literally stop you from dying. Like imagine a parachute company with this many tricks. The only reason why so much shit slides in the armor industry is because, statistically, this stuff almost never gets used.>actual likelihood of needing a rifle plate to be VERY lowCorrect. For now.>What's up with Gilliam? never heard of them till right now.They're a new upstart armor company using a mix of Chinese, American, and Italian materials with some interesting models. Some, but not all, plates test well at independent labs. They have no NIJ certs. See pic related. If you want tungsten-rated plates on the cheap, the 8002 is solid.>I own a .500 S&W MAGNUM with solid hand cast wadcutters because I think a feral polar bear on PCP is going to break into my house and I need to completely destroy his entire CNS in a single shot and also kill my neighbors car engineNow that's based. You have been redeemed saar...
>>64596714>Buying bullet proof body armor then saying it will never be used anyways so it doesn't matter is confused and annoying.Not a fan of that argument. It's used by a lot of RMA / Botach apologists when they're asked why they lowballed themselves and got those instead of Hesco or LTC. "It's never going to get used anyways!" or "If I'm actually using this to fight I guess I'll just die!" or "The 70 year old deer hunter will snipe my ass from 500 yards in the head and it won't matter" or "they'll just shoot me in the dick" or "it doesn't matter because I'll be in pain if I'm shot with anything"It's all very tiresome. Really rifle armor is not that complicated if you just keep it simple. Need 5.56 / 7.62x39 defeat? Hesco T212. Need full M855A1 / Level III? LTC 19513 or Hesco 3411. Need Level IV? Hesco 4403. Boom, done.
>>64596736the other reason I got RMA was it just came right to my door and was in stock, every place I check for HESCO plates the cheaper ones were out of stock or weren't actually a retailer, like right now on Midwest armor the entire stock of every plate is sold out it was kinda a perfect storm of it being the only thing available while I was in an impulsive mood, I also did consider that I'm listening to a bunch of turbo autists from /k/ and was like "cmon they're exaaaaagerating" lmao, you ARE right though, I'll keep a bookmark on Gilliam ty ty.
>>64596777Checked trips.>every place I check for HESCO plates the cheaper ones were out of stock or weren't actually a retailer, like right now on Midwest armor the entire stock of every plate is sold outThis is for two reasons. One is that Hesco actually gets major contracts and the feds unfortunately get priority over regular people. Two is that they use ceramic from Bitossi - as does LTC and Highcom and Gilliam and even RMA on some models - so they are at the mercy of their supplier's ability to supply.A third reason is that Midwest is slacking lately when it comes to fulfilling orders. Have you tried Sierra, trex, or Offbase?>I also did consider that I'm listening to a bunch of turbo autists from /k/Guilty as charged. There used to be autists on every platform but they got driven off or scared off, IYKYK.>I'll keep a bookmark on Gilliam ty ty.They also do custom work, which is rare for an armor mfg, so if you want to make like Gecko45 and get something rated to .338 threats I don't see what would be holding you back. Allegedly the 8002 was the result of a custom project because some guy wanted to stop 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP multiple times on the "crown" (center, where plate is weakest) - hence why it's a beefy ass tile array that also has a crack arrestor. One thing to keep in mind with these thick plates is that some carriers can't fit them. For example, I use Protech 2230s (1.2") and mine just barely fits them.
On another note, here's an old post by Apex (urgh) showing proof that the LTC 19513 stops M855A1. Couple of things to point at.1. The backface deformation is excellent. I suspect the plate is thinned out slightly toward the edges, hence why shot #1 (left) is 17.2mm versus 2 and 3.2. No hit directly in the center of the plate. Hint.3. The shot spacing is very wide. The Hesco 3411 also stops three M855A1, but Hesco specifically advises it does it within NIJ spec shot spacing, so 51mm minimum. The Protech 2230-5 stops six.
Pic rel here is the RMA XRT, at 6lb for a SAPI M, stopping three M855A1 but with BFD in the 20s. The 5.25lb LTC 19513 has a much better backer so this isn't surprising, and stops six M80 vs just three, although it has less headroom and isn't rated to beat M80A1 or B-32 API.
>>64595923if I can get the fabric I'd get a matching paintjob. I got a guy not more than a half mile from me who does cerakote jobs like that.
Saw these guys pop up again. Quick Dayton Armor infographic to complement the Safelife one from last bread. Dayton is basically the rich man's counterpart to RMA. Their plates run hot on BFD, the drop tests don't seem to be there, and their plates overall lack robustness and come with some serious catches versus counterparts from LTC / Hesco.
>>64596798based armor informant /k/ommando, I'll continue lurkin and reading till I feel like going for an upgrade. I can't remember off the top of my head but I did do some digging around before I got the RMA's and like you said I think the feds just slorp up the plates and I always happen to check when they're all gone and went "FUCK IT"like if it was going to be my JOB to go out and get shot at I would not be wearing 150~ dollar 8lb plates trust me, not that I REGRET getting them but really feeling the weight/thiccness is a good example of how much more comfortable those like 1200 dollar 5lb multicuts must be
Is this legit??? the fuck are they so cheap?
>>64597625nevermind I cant FUCKING READ they're sold out gunna kms
>>64596749I don't 'need' any of that, I already told you I've narrowed my highest threat level to be MAYBE, POSSIBLY, BALL 5.56 from some melanin enriched gentleman's 2" AR pistol that keyholes anyway and smacks its bullets into my plate sideways.Taquan and Jamal are not aren't going to bring a battle rifle and they're not loading their mags with M8556A1. If either of those are coming my way it's probably angry alphabet soup agency of some type that I have wronged and have a 2100 dollar set of plates is NOT going to fucking matter>it'll never get used!I wear it all the time like a retard>if I'm using it to fight I'll die if I put my RMA plates on to gunfight people I probably will die.. if I put my HESCO's on to gunfight people I probably die, I'm one person dumbass lmao>70 year old deer hunterI actually think it would stop hunting ammo pretty well honestly but whatever..>shoot me in the dicknot if I shoot them in THEIR dick first>be in pain if I'm shot in the plateyeah if they shoot me with any of the things I already assumed would probably make me die anywayI got 2 plates for the price of 1 plate, actually less they were on sale, it's not complicated bro. I want to buy a HESCO like the 4403 but they are out of stock of medium swimmer cut multicurve anytime I bother to look.. which isnt that often but still.. also I did just blow like 1200 on AR parts and a new GPU give my wallet time to recover homeslice
>>64597625They're technically "expired" because the warranty ran out. This doesn't matter with good plates. You can still buy some here:>https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1139132598>>64597629Lol, chill, you can still buy a set of 7.5lb plates that stop M2AP at 3,500ft/s in the above link for $450.>>64597611Glad to help. I'm not a fan of the featherweight $1,200 a plate Level IVs because they usually make compromises in durability to get that light. LTC 26310, Hesco 4800, Protech 9812-R1, that Dayton RF3HP, all less durable than their heavier brothers - especially against exotic threats.>>64597655I wouldn't bother with the 4403 if 2230s in good shape are available. Policesurp is really no different than buying milsurp plates online - you just don't get an inspection sticker. Double the multi hit, built in trauma pad, less weight, and extreme headroom against Winfred and his M2AP into .300 weatherby reloads. The 2230 was $1k a set a long time ago, hence why it outperforms the 4403 so badly.
>>64597655>I got 2 plates for the price of 1 plate, actually less they were on saleThe Highcom 4SAS4 argument back from the dead. Why stop there? Buy ten plates for the price of one with Linry. You were halfway to a set of solid plates and wasted it on jank.
/nvg/ question, what does ATAK and ITAK stand for?
>>64598315google itit's computer nerd shit for teams
>>64598352I see, I did search it first, but when I came across shit about servers I thought that wasn't correct and I was getting unrelated results.
The RMA excuses continue for the 1165. If you want drop protection on it, buy a trauma pad for $31.99 and put it in front of the plate. Also, telling reviewers not to drop it at all is certainly... not transparent. Can it withstand an easy drop? Is the 0101.06 drop test too hard? Is it like the 4SAS4 and can get killed by the mailman? Nobody knows!Not to continuously harp on this, but there's a reason why these guys have been on the shitlist for years. Every plate they sell has some kind of catch.
>>64598370>>64598315Software that runs on your Android device or Idevice to give you a minimap and integrate various sensors.
>>64598846lmao. > NO you can't drop test this plate. It's not allowed! > You niggers want a drop-safe plate, add your own damn trauma pad set to each side, with duct tape.> What do you mean the plate is now the same as the old Gen 1 at 1" thick and 6.7 pounds?
>>64598858Thanks. I will use this overmatch capability to overmatch the enemy fudds with overmatched durr rifles.
>>64598927Shorta, RMA's paid full time online defender, also just made his comment / post history private. Very transparent indeed.He basically goes around various online communities to shill RMA all day, even was in the /bag/ discord way back when. He's in legal trouble over that, actually. He stays out of here for good reason.Rule of thumb, if a company literally has an employee whose entire job is to basically run defense on social media, then there must be something bad they're running defense against.
>>64597629>anon when he can't get plates for $280 a set.https://youtu.be/IsZdfna1LKA?t=148
>>64598979kek
I just got some of those Shanghai H Win $25.00 IIIA panels in. Wow, they are, uh, cheap. The label peels right off and the PE layers are unpressed. I made them into ersatz forearm armor using duct tape and one wrap. I would not use them for anything but field-expedient extremity armor. BFD is probably going to be hot. I'll buy another pair for shin protection.
>>64599837>unpressed PEWEW LAD
>>64599891That was honestly expected. They were $49.98 for the pair.
Do crye g3s fit weird for everyone? I don't even lift much and these are really tight in the thighs, I can squat all the way down in them but it really starts to cinch up in the crotch area. Also do they shrink in the wash?
>>>/g/107450486Im retarded and I like spending way too much money on chink shit, so I got these parts for my airsoft m4 and some pouches and a few clothes. Will report back on the quality of the $20cad "canadian style" BDU top and pants.
>>64600246Thats extremely rare. Most people fit G3s like pajamas.>ShrinkNot really>>64600500>CanadianNone of this gear matters
>>64600246Buy the womens version>>64600500cool>>64600513find employment my son
>>64600583A2 is like nobility. He can afford Cryes and all sorts of crazy gear without working. He is the new warrior elite, entirely dedicated to martial training and equipment.
>>64600513I think I'm going to have to exchange for a size up. There is just no way this is going to work, I can barely get my hands in the pockets.
Anyone want a rip and ram breaching bar that weighs 50lb?https://surplus.botach.com/rip-ram-breaching-forcible-entry-device-police-trade/https://soldiersystems.net/2011/12/02/punch-and-pull-breaching-tool-for-fortified-doors/
>>64600609Ah so that's why he gives bad recs to us plebs.
>>64600642Thats nasty af lol
>>64600642Show this to the guy with the level 4 shield.
>>64600817I can't he got banned from reddit because he had dick pics in his profile or something. He's gonna need to hire a squire since it's a two man tool.>>64600781I'm honestly considering it for retarded apocalypse larp. Based botach for selling this kinda stuff to regular joes. Hey impulsive RMA buyer RTX 5070 man, you want first dibs?
>>64600246I have both size 36 and size 34. I can probably go down to size 32. The two I have fit wonderfully though obviously I have to tighten the 36.
guys i just shit in my cryes they tickled my butt
>>64600996Chris Kyle is smiling at you
>>64601004dude I'm so mad they were prototype G5s with full frag pro I got dooky budder down my legs and all over the seams it's dripping on my Tenant Tan carpet fuuuuck
>>64601023>poops self>still sitting and typing bruh
>>64600817They can get him a real Level IV shield. It's got wheels and weighs a hundred pounds.https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-level-4-mobile-ballistic-shield-w-trolly-police-trade/
>>64601080I'm standing in my living room on my phon!
https://acelinkarmor.com/ballistic-helmets/pasgt-ballistic-helmet-blackYou get what you pay for right? This is just going to be RMA tier shit?
>>64601091>It's got wheelsI like this idea. I think I'm going to make something that has shielding on all sides. It might be a little too heavy so you would probably need some sort of motor.
>>64601101It's on sale for 75% off. Chinese import helmet with a test report that doesn't have BFD numbers. Ace link's stuff is generally shit tier anyway.Acquire used Protech or Ceradyne BA3A on ebay for less.
>>64601122>You mad genius... it's auto and mobile. Automobile!
>>64601143Noted thanks. Unfortunately no way to assure quality with ebay shit. Should I just finance a 400 dollar Paraclete on Botach?>inb4 be less poorI tried :(
>>64601160>no way to assure qualityBuy ones that look to be in good condition. If you get it and it looks busted file an INAD return and force the bitch seller to pay return shipping and get your cash back.>finance a paraclete from Botachdebt is bad.
>>64601174How can you tell it's real or if the "surface" damage goes much deeper just from the photos? I would like to test the helmet itself but without putting a bullet hole in it.>debt is badoy vey that's antisemitic -200 credit score bad goy
>>64601231Look for wear and tear. There shouldn't be "surface damage" - My BA3A I got off of ebay is minty even though it's twelve years old. A lot of PDs over-order stuff and never use it, so they end up disposing of technically expired but perfectly good gear. Helmets, plates, etc.By the way, anyone want a blackhawk? Starting bid 400k unmet reserve.https://gsaauctions.gov/auctions/preview/344388
guys how do you get shit out of crye pants i tried the washer but it fucked uo my other clothes im standing here i realize this shit's just like me making history
>>64601325Are you okay?
>>64601332no my entire wadrobe is ruined. the shit in my cryes is the serpent, its the flame, the mortal world is scared to sniff its scent, its so spooky! its a shit! its so big its a living aspect of the infinitei need run to walmart to buy new jeans my entire wash is shitted up i djn knkw what i ate my carpet js fuckin ruined landlord gonna kill me
>>64601343Why did mentioning cryes set you off like this?
>>64601357the pants tickled my pooper and i waz already loaded safety off big stinker in the chamber
>>64601361If it was another brand would you still have a meltdown?
>>64601368is another brand gonna cause poopoo
>>64601375That's what I am asking you.
>>64601384that y am here is emrson tickle my poop chute?
>average /gq/ thread in 2030, colorizedThis is why I keep coming here. We've got the autism, the grit, the knowledge, the... explosive diarrhea?How did this thread go from talking about Chinese helmets to what sounds like the results of Chinese MREs?
>>64601408https://youtu.be/loKJoNeWfzg?list=LL
>>64601411Thanks for the 411. I fear for anon's sake that if he buys the kevlar blast protective underwear, which is what anyone needs in the drone hell to come, he'll explode even more than he already has.https://www.ebay.com/itm/277552616897
>>64600642Shit I'm really considering this...
>>64597611Had a thought that made me backtrack to this post. I was watching some "fugitive recovery agents" (lol) breaking into crackhouses. Daily reminder that residential doors and such are flimsy as shit and can be breached in seconds even without tools. If you can, reinforce your house to buy time for yourself. Plates won't do you any good if you never have time to put them on.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqidJhwTk8o
>>64601618Good advice. Cameras are also really cheap give notifications and if they are cut off you know its feds.
>>64601659Wired cameras, ideally with recording on-site and cloud backup (unless you don't trust the cloud). Wireless can be jammed or knocked out by a deauth attack. Signal jammers are relatively esoteric but the handheld Chinese off-the-shelf units are becoming increasingly popular in break-ins.https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/06/18/homeland-security-warns-about-spike-china-based-technology-firms-smuggling-signal
Another oopsie from Highcom and Apex. I checked Highcom's 2025 catalog and it looks like the 3S9M is NOT rated for 7.62x54R B-32 API. This directly contradicts Highcom's website, but is supported by Buffman's test where plate #2 lost to that round. So basically it's M855A1 + M80A1 tops for 6lb, $970/set. Similar weight to the RMA XRT, which CAN stop B-32, but double the multi-hit against M80 plus active NIJ cert, so the drop protection is good, but 3x the price. Never thought I'd say this but the RMA is the better deal.Catalog: https://www.highcomarmor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/HCA_Catalog-2025_Digital.pdfWebsite: https://www.highcomarmor.com/product/body-armor-highcom-level-iii-plate-3s9m/
>>64601361>>64601368>>64601408Very strange viral marketing campaign ig>Crye made my bussy squirt
Who makes a good aftermarket harness for tap rigs? At this point I've given up on trying to make the one that came with it work. I just want something relatively comfortable that I don't have to adjust all the way down because I'm not 6'4 and wearing it over a PC. It coming in coyote brown to match the rig would be nice too
>>64602668have you tried carcajou?
>>64602687No experience with em, would their H-harness v.2 be a good choice?
New Buff video dropped. All-PE plate that stops M855 from German outfit Turtle Armoring Solutions. 3.745lb, 1.012" thick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnFreZVPCK0This is right around the LTC 28855's expected specs and undercuts that Combat Systems RF2 plate, so that's pretty guud.The company also has a TAS-XTREME VPAM PM-12 plate rated to defeat 7.62x51mm M993 and 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP using a hexagonal ceramic tile array. 7.92lb / 1.12" thick for a 10x13", so it's moderately better than the Gilliam 8002 and should still beat the Colossus on multi-hit.https://www.turtle-armoring.de/products/tas-xtreme
>>64602864>All-PE plate that stops M855 Finally, technology has advanced! There have been rumors forever (Dayton Armor...) but this is the first public proof I'm aware of
>>64602712i mean if it looks like what you need they make a canadian lbe style and people say that's a solid harness because you can extend it with the d loops but your results may vary and you need the extra straps to reach your belt which you may already have i have it attached to a panel as a chest rig it's fine for what it it
>>64602891Last I checked Dayton's RF2 still used a Bitossi alumina ceramic. The other all-PE plates that stop M855 are the Combat Systems RF2, at about 4lb, and then a 1.3" thick plate from PRIME Armor.It's rumored the LTC 24855 and "28855" (I assume if they are not the same plate the 28855 is the superior model) are also all-PE M855 stoppers. Stealth Armor Systems, at least on paper, came up with a 3.5lb or so HB212-based PE plate but it would cost a fortune. The benefit of this turtle plate is that it should be positively buoyant and it cares less about shot spacing than a ceramic. Also it abides by VPAM so the BFD limit should be much tighter @ 25mm vs 44mm. I imagine it's expensive.
>>64602891>>64602864There's a reason no major company does this. All-PE plates that can stop M855 have been rumored for decades, from Stealth, Dayton, LTC, and others. A lot of them, made with HB212 or whatever, work at ambient temperature. They are unlikely to work after high-temp conditioning or very low-temp conditioning. This has been discussed here many times before, when the "Combat Systems RF2" came up. These are plates that have not been rigorously tested and they will never be certified.
>>64603064It's basically the 0101.04 vs 0101.06 argument all over again, except this time about temperature conditioning and not drop testing like it was for ceramics. Here's the kicker. How do you propose these all-PE plates fail temp conditioning when plates using the same PE, but only as a backer, pass said conditioning? PE isn't magically going to be immune to temperature just because it's bonded to a ceramic. Obviously the ceramic plates will have more "headroom" conditioned because the ceramic should be foamed, is not exploited by M855 traditionally, and isn't suspectible to temp - so I assume the "issue" is that these all-PE plates are likely "no-headroom" designs, a la old school Hesco design philosophy, and any harsh conditioning or variances brings them below the "floor" so to speak. That's conjecture however since we're discussing half a dozen different models at this point with wildly different specs.>These are plates that have not been rigorously tested and they will never be certified.I agree that's an issue, but the majority of people don't seem to care much for NIJ cert. I think they're making a mistake doing that, but it is what it is.
>>64603117Uh the PE softens or embrittles outside a pretty narrow temperature range. That's nbd when it's a backer, because the M855's penetrator is gonna be destroyed before it comes into contact with the PE, so there's a lot of headroom, but it's definitely a problem if the PE is supposed to be doing all of the work.
>>64603198The issue with that is that armor is fundamentally proportional. The amount of PE necessary to function as a backer is significantly less than what's in a full-PE plate. Many ceramic-PE III+ plates are significantly thinner than even no-M855 lightweights. This is because the PE backer only needs to defeat fragments. If modern PE were that temp sensitive and/or the backers are just plain insufficient, we'd see excessive BFD numbers or pass-throughs. This was a major issue in the .04 period, but that was twenty years ago back when Zylon was acceptable.If the PE is doing all the work, just have enough of it that it'll function even when conditioned. Since there's been major advances in PE in the past few years (Hardwire-68, the lightest PE IIIA in the world, just got replaced earlier this year by Hardwire-57 that is lighter than most old Zylon IIIA), it's hard to say what is "enough" for a fresh plate and what is enough for conditioned until the .07 CPL is out and we see who dodges certification or mysteriously discontinues products.>tl;drIt's probably the safest option to assume these plates can't pass conditioning until proven otherwise. I think LTC's two options are probably better than Herr Turtle (did they just launch this year?) and the Combat Systems plate that gets shilled on reddit from time to time.
>>64594730>>64594793>>64594965After looking and thinking about it, I will probably go with either a PGD helmet for a cheaper option, or wait a while longer and save up for a 3M UWL. A couple questions though.1 - With the PGD should i just use their nvg shroud(if I ever actually get nods) or the Unity one?2 - The only two places I saw a 3M UWL for sale said they may/will ask for gubmint ID. Since i'm just a blue collar citizen will i actually need one to buy? If so where is a site I can get them from without having a government ID since I'm not a fed or mil/leo guy?
>>64603750ebay / marketplace / tacswap / gunbroker sellers don't care about creds. If companies say they'll ask, they'll probably ask.>>64602891Also forgot to mention that the VPAM PM-12 Xtreme plate is on paper the strongest tungsten-core option outside of Puccia. If it were 10x12 it'd be 7.3lb. Three hits Swiss P AP or M993, sub-25mm BFD. Good shit.
>>64604027The VPAM limit is 44mm not 25mm.
>>6460403944mm is NIJ and formerly US mil. Hesco's euro-market VPAM plates abide by sub-25mm. Ditto for those Pangolin flexible plates.https://www.burnproofgear.com/product/hesco-8v007/
>>64604039Here's the table on the Pangolin "French Dragonskin" VPAM-8 plates. Sub-25mm on BZ API, which is the PM-8 test threat. LPS and M80 are technically not on the VPAM threat schedule and the plate switches to NIJ <44mm with those threats.I think NIJ is the second-highest standard when it comes to BFD tolerance, behind only the current US military 58-62mm limit. Euros roll <25mm, Russians / Ukrainians (GOST / DSTU respectively) do sub-17mm, but they "cheat" and use a CAP heavy-duty trauma pad as standard equipment. Also the GOST schedule has no full-power rifle threats until you get to BR5 with B-32 and 7N13. Anything below that is basically an SRT. Yeah, Russia is basically going to war with L210s.
>>64604039Apologies for the triple post, HERE is the pangolin table. Pangolin seems neat, they've got a III+ (PM-7), III++ (PM-8), and a IV but they won't show the Level IV flexible model.
>>64604117How heavy are the Level IVs?
>>64604130They don't say on their website, even though they do say they make a Level IV variant.>Our flexible plates don't sacrifice anything in terms of safety: they are available in NIJ levels III, III+ and IV, depending on the configuration chosen, and benefit from our multi-layer technology combining high-end ceramic, technical resin, and advanced ballistic fibers.I saw they use either Aluminum Oxide or Silicon Carbide for the ceramic, so there technically are two possible weights. Fortunately, because it's a flexible "scale" type system we can approximate Dragonskin or Hexar weights to try and backtrack the IV. I'm going to assume Silicon Carbide for the Pangolins so the DS 2.0 stuff lines up.1. The Dragonskin 2.0 III++ is 5.7lb for a shooters' cut 10x12. It is good for M855A1 / M80 but no rating on BZ API / LPS.2. The Pangolin III++ / VPAM-8 is 5.06lb. Much lighter and more protective.Based on taking the above numbers and then beefing up to "basic" IV I'm getting 6.55lb for a Level III/IV Pangolin. This is rough napkin math. I can't directly approximate based off the SiC Dragonskin 2.0 IV because that was an 8.4lb ICW IIIA tested for .338 Lapua Swiss P AP, so in practice a ~9.1lb 10x12 (big yikes). Pangolin would arrive at 7.31lb ICW IIIA for the same solution, which is actually really nice.
>>64604027>If it were 10x12 it'd be 7.3lb.I had a look at their website. It kind of already is 10x12". They have a 0.5" cheat ring on the upper and lower edges. Their site is also legit weird, like they think M855A1 is a BIG DEAL. (WTF.) Also that hexagon construction is kinda concerning. Does anybody else still make plates like that? Somebody here mentioned like a year ago that Hesco was considering it for the 4801, but dropped the idea. Doesn't GTS use larger square tiles?
>>64604183>Based on taking the above numbers and then beefing up to "basic" IV I'm getting 6.55lb for a Level III/IV PangolinExtremely based if it's a standalone plate, I've gotta say
>>64604276wouldn't two layers of hexagons set up so the front layers edges have a flat face of ceramic behind them too be like.. perfect armor?I mean design wise, isn't a single sheet of these hexagons susceptible to getting a round snuck between the tiles? or even a fragment of bullet could zip through?
>>64604302> wouldn't two layers of hexagons set up so the front layers edges have a flat face of ceramic behind them too be like.. perfect armor?For multi-hit, that is a great idea.> I mean design wise, isn't a single sheet of these hexagons susceptible to getting a round snuck between the tiles? or even a fragment of bullet could zip through?Yeah, seems like it. The gaps between those tiles look pretty large, desu
>>64604276>It kind of already is 10x12"Keep in mind nominalness. It's rare for a 10x12 shooters to, you know, actually be exactly 10x12 on the dot. My Protechs for example have a very slight amount of edge foam for drop protection purposes.>Their site is also legit weird, like they think M855A1 is a BIG DEALIt absolutely is, because it kicks their all-PE PM-7 / SK3 plate's ass. The major "big picture" problem with these next-gen all-PE M855 stoppers is that they would have been really awesome like twenty years ago. M855A1 is the new hotness, it's not hard to get if you're willing to spend some scratch, and it pierces a lot of base Level III plates really well. Even good ceramic III+ like the Hesco 3810 folds at sufficient velocity.>Also that hexagon construction is kinda concerning. Does anybody else still make plates like that?Militech and surprisingly Tencate. Militech is the most reputable armor company out of China and Tencate is the ONLY major western armor company to have never had a recall or NIJ suspension, so there's nothing inherently wrong with the design aside from a weight penalty. Rule of thumb is that the smaller each element, the greater the weight penalty but better the multi-hit provided the backer doesn't shit out and delaminate beforehand.>Somebody here mentioned like a year ago that Hesco was considering it for the 4801, but dropped the idea.Probably was me. The Shot Show 2022 versions of the 3811 (2.9lb!) and 4801 (4.8lb) used a hexagonal boron carbide tile array. 3811 was going to cost like $2,500 a set and 4801 $3,500 so that got shitcanned.>Doesn't GTS use larger square tiles?Yep, see pic related for the GTS 8002 - which also stops the same threats as the Turtle XTREME. GTS uses a lot of Chinese import materials and Turtle's PE is demonstrably superior, so the XTREME is probably a lot more $$$ than the $800/set GTS.>>64604282Worth keeping in mind Stealth uses Chinese materials. Pangolin should naturally be better but more $$$.
>>64604350I think it reality they are basically snugged edge to edge, but I think 2 thinner 'sheets' of these layered so the back covers the fronts 'edges' would be great even if you used fucking wall tile,rather then just one big thick sheet of hexagonsalso consider you're not getting the full edge unless you cut the tiles to fit the edges of the plate, it's still good coverage though. I'm pretty sure the edges of plates in general are the weakest place just purely from a structural standpoint there's nothing stopping some of that force going sideways out the cover and like into the exterior edge of your torso.. which is definitely better then just getting shot so
>>64604400also speaking of this didnt our lord and savior PAUL (RIP) literally do this? make ad-hoc emergency body armor from those sheets of bathroom wall tile and ducktape?I know ballistic ceramic is probably astronomically different then the ceramic you eat off of but its still ceramic that's really hard until it's not and it explodes.. what about those tiles layered with like fuckin denim and epoxy? probably like lvl3 tier homemade pistol plates lol
>>64604302>wouldn't two layers of hexagons set up so the front layers edges have a flat face of ceramic behind them too be like.. perfect armor?Interlocking ceramic, huh? That's actually what Tencate patented recently as a kind of "third-gen" LIBA if you're familiar with that. If not, LIBA is a technology they licensed from an Israeli firm in the late 1990s. Cylindrical or spherical ceramic pellets embedded in an UHMWPE plate. Extremely good multi-hit (15-20 rounds) plus less weight than a ceramic tile array, BUT gaps between pellets large enough so rounds like M855 / M855A1 / M995 can sneak through and pierce only PE. The second-gen LIBA incorporated a steel Armox layer to solve the "SS109 problem" noted by the Dutch military in the early 00s, but this resulted in plates getting way too heavy.There are some LIBA plates floating around the US sold by Protective Products International from about 2002-2007. They weigh 6.5lb for a 10x12 and were advertised as 20-hit Level IV plates, but in reality the backer shits out and delams after around fifteen .30-06 M2AP. Some Euro sof had M993 rated variants that were much heavier, including a full torso model.>Yeah, seems like it. The gaps between those tiles look pretty large, desuBesides the issue that's only an illustration, that's where the weight penalty of ceramic tile arrays comes in. They need to be able to stop rounds that hit the edges of multiple tiles. The smaller each tile, the more "edge", so the tiles need to be beefed up more.
>>64604392Their site says that the plate's dimensions are "25x32,5cm" or 9.85x12.8"But if you look at the pic, count pixels, and assume the bottom is the same as the top, the actual ceramic coverage area of that plate, being generous, is something like 9.8x11.6".> If it were 10x12"It would be 9.8x10.8".I mean, it's nice that they made their plate larger to account for the cheat ring, but it's not a true 10x13"> Militech and surprisingly TencateWhich Tencate models, do you know? Seems weird, very surprising.
>>64604422> Besides the issue that's only an illustrationNo, look to the right side of the image, there's a pic of the actual plate.
>>64604400>I'm pretty sure the edges of plates in general are the weakest place just purely from a structural standpointSurprisingly, assuming the plate is not thinned out at the edges and provides true "edge-to-edge" protection, it's the center (crown) of the plate - especially when tested multi-hit. In practice however, some companies take advantage of the NIJ fair hit rules, which dictate a plate only needs to provide protection two inches from the edge - in other words a 10x12 only needs 6x8 protection - so the edges are either thinned, foamed, or entirely cheat ringed.>what about those tiles layered with like fuckin denim and epoxy? probably like lvl3 tier homemade pistol plates lolIf we can track down liba anon he literally made homebrew LIBA that stops M993 like 60% of the time. Homemade armor is actually viable if designed correctly, but it will never approach good quality commercial equivalents. Strictly a desperado option.
>>64604436Thanks, I'm blind, lol.>>64604430>is something like 9.8x11.6".Which isn't terrible, we're right on 10x12 then and still significantly lighter / thinner than the Gilliam 8002, with better required multi-hit and BFD, and MUCH better than the Tencate CX-950 IC.>I mean, it's nice that they made their plate larger to account for the cheat ring, but it's not a true 10x13"Well played! Now if we let them use Highcom rules it would be just over six pounds. RMA rules 5.7lb if we permit 1" cheat ring on a plate that measures 10x12 nominal, 1189 style. American Blast rules about ~3.5lb. Cheat rings are a bitch.>Which Tencate models, do you know? Seems weird, very surprising.None of the multi-light Euro market plates, but several Cratus US-market plates do, even the CR-6450SA B4C lightweight. I believe the old D-code plate that was the AT Armor FFS4, which was 9.5lb SAPI M, was also a tile array. It had a reputation in 2019-2020 for being a tank.
Pic rel is the Alumina-PE Militech RF2 that Buff tested. It put on an excellent show, defeating eleven M855, one M855A1, one M193, two M80, but lost to M82 API 7.62x39mm (basically a derivative of BZ API), M80A1, and .30-06 M2AP at a dramatically reduced velocity of 1,736ft/s to simulate a ~675 yard standoff. For a 5.25lb plate that was about $200/set, that's outstanding. Of course, the usual caveats apply.>1. It's Chinese and not NIJ-certified, so quality control is debatable. Sample size of 1 is not representative of even a single batch.>2. Buffman is a Militech affiliate and they literally use his videos as advertisements.>3. We don't know if they sent him a "ringer.">4. Buff emulates NIJ fair hit rules and tries to maintain 51mm minimum shot spacing when he can. You do not get that luxury in an actual fight.It shows, nonetheless, the hexagonal ceramic tile array design is sound.
New shit alert, SC3812 plate from "Tac 11" for $3,100 a set and FXR-Bravo positively buoyant version for... $4,200/set. Very light M855A1 stoppers considerably thicker than the VelSys PBZSA but less weight. No listed BZ API protection unlike LTC 28791 / Tencate CR6450SA / VelSys PBZSA. Allegedly developed for a three-letter.
>>64602668Try this and let me know. I'm 89% sure it would be great, but their shipping is a sticking point (for me).https://fhfgear.com/products/airframe-harness?_pos=1&_psq=Air&_ss=e&_v=1.0
>>64601343>dude shits his pants>immediately starts rattling off a hazbin hotel songabsolute cinema
>>64604626Very impressive
>>64604650The tricky part is figuring out the OEM. They've got two COTS Tencate plates and the rest is unknown. Lack of BZ API protection and overt thickness rules them out for TSA/LTO and so Tencate / LTC are probably out. Highcom is out because the nominal figures don't line up. It's probably Point Blank, Safariland, or Hesco. The non-buoyant and buoyant versioning makes me think Hesco akin to 3810 / 3810B, plus "SC3812" is closer to Hesco's naming system - although it has little in common with the 3812. Reminds me of that old rumored plate, the 3885.
>>64604710Yeah it's probably a Hesco. Weird that the ancient VelSys PBZSA is still basically better.
>>64604750They would be the sixth and seventh Hesco that Hesco pretends doesn't exist, weird trend.>PBZSA4.15lb / 0.56" BZ API / A1 / M80 versus 3.8lb 0.95" M855A1 / M80 RF2+ or 4lb 1" that floats. The PBZSA smokes unless you need the buoyancy, and it's much cheaper at $2.2k a set.IMO, the PBZSA is probably the second best M80 and M855A1 plate, behind the GEN-6 LTC LTO that replaced the 28791.
>>64592098Save that mall bro, I want to believe
>>64605064>the guy trying to kidnap the mayor's nephew after he hears Gecko45 custom commissioned a pair of Gilliam 9001s.
>>64604420Missed this one earlier. Homemade armor is good if you get caught with your pants down by a ban. Otherwise, commercial armor is extremely cheap these days. Crappy airsoft carrier for $45-60, often with pouches included, and then two Hesco 4400s from Botach for $100. The carrier probably won't stand up to hard use, and the plates are of shady origin, but it's something and probably more effective than bath tile against rifle threats. Considering they're likely the very same plates from the 4400 recall five years ago, I would not trust them to stop M2AP or even close threats like M80A1 / M61, but it's something. In the words of the NIJ, less effective armor is better than no armor.
>>64602445the guy dipped and stopped yelling about his cryes
>>64604276>that hexagon construction is kinda concerning. Does anybody else still make plates like that?Russian armor mfgs actually do. Granits are hex-tiled inside, and the patent I've reviewed a couple of threads ago when we were discussing Filin's new B4C panels specifically mentions hex tiles and then hex tiles with slanted edges to prevent small AP cores from sneaking inb2n gaps. And Filin had a demo stand in their shop clearly showing hex-tile construction inside their mainstream plates, I didn't get a pic.It's completely okay if you stack the tiles tight enough and bond them to the backer with proper adhesive. Between the mass and hardness of the ceramic and the adhesion, a bullet core will most likely slow down and deform beyond recognition and by the time it reaches the backer and won't be able to pen.>>64604110Thank you again my friend, you are justice, this is one of the best overviews of the Russian armor market that I've seen to this day. Certainly, the most succinct.
>>64606874Excellent overview, much appreciated about the infographic. I'm curious, as some others are, as to why Gilliam here in the states uses larger rectangular pieces when very robust multi-hit can clearly be had, as seen with Filin plates, with hexagons. I suspect it's because their SiC is Chinese-sourced and not of the highest grade, so they need less edge area to avoid having the plate be excessively heavy. Gilliam then includes a crack arrestor forward of the strike face to reduce crack propagation across individual tiles, which then adds more weight, thickness, and mildly increases BFD due to energy retention inside the plate. I think if they upped the quality of their SiC they could make like Turtle and provide a hexagonal Swiss P-able strike face with superior multi-hit. Even with the cheat ring, that TAS Xtreme plate is probably a freakishly resilient plate. >>64602864 - I'd like to see it tested with soft armor just for determining extra headroom.
Those expired Hesco 4600s for $180 a pair are below 20 sets now, so they've sold twenty sets already. I'm tempted, for spare purposes, but if the anon who bought a pair tests em and they suck, that's $180 down the shitter.https://surplus.botach.com/hesco-model-4600-lvl-iv-plates-set-of-2-police-trade/
>>64606899It's probably because hexagons aren't very good and larger tiles perform better.Also the Turtle plate is basically overweight as fuck. 8 pounds at less than 10x12", if you count the cheat rings.
>>64607381>larger tiles perform betterThe BR5+ Granit objectively outperforms the 8002 (7N37 trumps Swiss P AP) and apparently uses hexagons per Rusanon. It's a 9lb solution when you add soft armor and CAP. I think if the ceramic purity is poor you need to use larger tiles to offset weight issues. Also, if larger tiles performed better the 8002 probably wouldn't need a "shardlock" (?) heavy duty crack arrestor. Gilliam is basically the Militech replacement and is budget-oriented, and that IMO shows.>Turtle is overweightNot really, if you consider the threat level. It mogs the Tencate CX-950 IC and is lighter than a SAPI M Highcom 4S17M which is only base Level IV. If it were true edge to edge 10x12 it'd be 8.4lb, still lighter than a SAPI M 4S17M and 0.1lb heavier than an RMA 1155. A true 10x13 would be 9.1lb, which is a major oof and explains the ring.
>>64607488> The BR5+ Granit objectively outperforms the 8002> ObjectivelyNot sure how you can say that with a straight face when there's still zero evidence. Let's make a bet. The minute anybody outside Russia ever gets his hands on a plate, it's going to perform exactly like those Level-5000 Hyperion plates, which folded like wet cardboard.
My other pants are fitting kind of tight too, I guess I gained some holiday weight. I'm going to hold onto these cryes and order another pair a size up then sell them once I get back down to my normal weight.
>>64607510The test report from like three threads ago counts. The 8002's was somewhat weak at only 1x M993 then 1x Swiss P AP, even though it can likely do more. Granit handled 6x 7N37. 7N37 kills the Colossus, ergo other Swiss P AP plates are fishy.Keep in mind also the 8002's proof is about the same. Test report and a really unscientific test vid.
Need it or sneed it?https://kruschiki.com/products/idf-combat-vest
>>64607604I just realized only the Grenadier model is still available.
>>64607569Not a credible lab or a credible test, with zero corroborating evidence. Didn't Hyperion also have "reports"? Are you willing to take the bet?
>>64607662I'll allow Rusanon to address the lab credibility issue. Gilliam's issue is that they change specs monthly. There's been three versions of 8002. How can ya be so sure the 8002 is the same as the one tested? Just playing devil's advocate.>HyperionNo reports that I can recall. They had a scientific paper about their titanium superalloy crack arrestor but that vanished.>THE BETSure thing, on condition the plate is tested properly with suitable soft armor and CAP.
>>64607847He already addressed it with a wall of text that basically just said "it's a government lab and the company wouldn't lie about it or cook the test or use photoshop or run 10 tests and post the only good one" The bottom line is that we can't make any hard or "objective" claims about that plate until it's tested outside Russia somehow. What ALWAYS happens is that Russian and Ukrainian plates underperform vs. claims.Anyway Chase Tactical of the 4SAS4 have a new plate: > https://www.chasetactical.com/product/sp8-level-iv-rifle-armor-plates-nij-06-compliant-single-curveIt doesn't look good. 9.5x11.5" (maybe like the 4SAS4 closer to 9x11") and 7.4 pounds. 1.25" thick. Single curve. Looks like a Highcoom plate?
>>64607616>>64607604The regular "combat vest" looks like it absolutely sucksThe grenadier vest could be cool if you have a lot of grenades or an M203. But you don't. So it's utterly useless. I can't think of any possible reason you'd wear that. Maybe if you're armed with a 4.6x30mm PDW and your mags fit in the grenade pouches?
>>64604444that's so strange, I'm no material scientist so I have no FUCKING IDEA how that makes sense, very interesting actually... you would always just assume the center is the strongest point.
>>64607847>lab credibility issueIDK what to tell you, really. The cert was issued by Rzhevka Polygon, which is one of less than a handful of labs accredited to issue body armor ratings to specific items in Russia. There's no higher or more credible authority anywhere if we're talking GOST Br ratings. I feel like this anon is just taking the bias he acquired from looking at cockhol bullshit, commercial chinesium resold under Russian labels and maybe some (fake?) Granits some rando shot up stateside and projecting it onto the entirety of post-Soviet armor industry. In a different situation, I think Techincom, and definitely smaller guys like Filin, would gladly send their plates to Buffman or Oxide for independent verification, but it is what it is. In the meantime, I suggest you peruse the relevant GOST standards to get an understanding of what the plates actually went through for those certs. Highlights include: testing lab employees coming to the production site in person to randomly select samples, freezing the entire armor package in the block of ice at -40 C for hours, heating it up to +40 C, drop testing, of course, and then finally shooting up the plates. Oh, and then the plates get x-rayed to further evaluate the BFD and structural damage. Just read the cert, really.
>>64608087Could be that the plates are weakened by dropping them onto their crowns/centers? Or that cracks naturally propagate to the center?
>>64604444>If we can track down liba anon he literally made homebrew LIBA that stops M993 like 60% of the time. Homemade armor is actually viable if designed correctly, but it will never approach good quality commercial equivalents. Strictly a desperado option.honestly for people who aren't like doing it as a job this seems like a really fun thing to mess around with as long as you A. never sell it and B. always assume its like 1 level below what you think lolI've seen a few youtube shorts/tiktoks of people basically homebrewing their own armor in various types like hexagons or the specifically cut rectangles like >>64604392I bet making armor at home with the hexagons is probably not even hard, cause you dont have to worry about cutting them to fit right to the edge, would be a fun project even if you just end up shooting them to see what happens.
>>64608175lmao I hate when I make a post in a small window and forget all my sentences are gunna get stretched across the whole screen... I swear I don't go to reddit guys :(
>>64608069I see Rusanon already addressed the lab report issue in >>64608092. I'd be more hesitant if this weren't a 9lb plate when all is said and done. Last I checked these still use a rus aramid backer, which is going to be more stout than the budget PE used by Gilliam. The plate fundamentally maths out, just as Gilliam's do, and as far as I can tell the test report is good.>Russian and Ukrainian plates underperformUkraine has a super shit domestic armor industry. Hyperion was a scam, most of their guys are C / B-grade Chinese outfits, and their best local operator is UARM - which has reported failures here and there. They're using a lot of imported armor, a lot of Hesco. I did see somewhere they're refusing to accept donated Battle Steel so maybe there are some field failures. If so, I'd like to know but they aren't very transparent.All Russian plates I've seen tested, aside from ex-soviet crap and fake airsoft granits, generally test fine even though most people test Granits wrong and omit soft armor and CAP.>SP8, SON OF 4SUS4Even the 4SAS4 was multi-curve. This fucking sucks, and yeah it's a Highcoom. It's thicker than my Protech 2230s, almost same weight even though mine are honest 10x12s and this shit isn't, and $320 a set? Hell no, give me Gilliam 1023s for that rate. Not on the CPL as of now.>>64608087Crack propagation from the center goes in all directions, plus any backer delamination spreads more at the center. Also, and this is minor, the plate is at less of an angle when shot at the center and it is slightly angled in the curved areas. Buffman did note at one point that plates do improve somewhat when tested at acute angles.>>64608092Buffman already tested a Granit and it did decently well, but not yet for the new BR5+ turbo version.>>64608175Big emphasis on never sell it. Or if you do, make like Adept and never give anyone real contact info, your address, no back labels on the plates, and any website that can't be burned.
>>64608761>Not on the CPL as of now.The CPL is over, isn't it? No new additions, and no .07 CPL until 2028 at this rate.
>>64608882Sorta-kinda. If the NIJ is late on processing your paperwork they'll still add it, which is what Nick Groat said about the new Safelife stuff. In that case, I fail to see why Highcum didn't submit the paperwork for this earlier. R&D should have been minimal, it's basic materials. Chase calls it 0101.06 compliant, and the CPL is the compliant products list, so the implication is that it should be on the CPL. Maybe it hasn't updated yet.Either way, this doesn't matter. It's an overly thick single curve plate that would have been competitive maybe in 2012. Gilliam and the other import material companies like LAPG / Militech control the sub-$400/set Level IV market.
>>64608901"Compliant" rather than "certified"?Or maybe the SP8 is Chase's house name for an established/certified/old Highcom model? Did those mouthbreathers at Highcom ever certify anything at 1.25" thick? They must be scared af of drop tests now, lol
>>64608911Yeah, it's a common industry misnomer. NIJ certifies whether armor is compliant with the 0101.06 standard. Chase technically shouldn't be saying that since only the NIJ has authority to declare armor compliant. However, the NIJ legitimately gives no shits (they've been trying to revise the helmet standard for twenty years) and has no enforcement powers so this stuff slides with everybody.>Or maybe the SP8 is Chase's house name for an established/certified/old Highcom model?Then it should be on Highcom's CPL entry. I don't see an SP8, and they need to reveal the real model number if they want to say it's on the CPL.>Did those mouthbreathers at Highcom ever certify anything at 1.25" thick?4SAS12 maybe, I don't have the thickness on deck but it had a high M2AP v50 around 3,400ft/s IIRC.>They must be scared af of drop tests now, lolGood news for them, the 0101.07 test is much easier and that's where a lot of weight reductions are already coming from. I think this is a fuckup and it's going to make plates too fragile. Still better than .04's no conditioning chicanery that let Zylon get certified, but I'd rather a plate that can take a pounding and weighs 0.4lb more. This is life saving equipment. I don't know any other similar "no failure allowed" industry where people will take a less reliable option just because it weighs a little less.
>>64608761honestly a company that helps you make your armor at home seems so fuckin based and just like a cool concept, as long as you constantly keep in mind you're not making ballistic armor like imagine a company that made just ceramic armor tiles for sale, flexible backer sheets to apply them to with a durable heat resistant epoxy so you do get DRAGONSCALED and then you just get to make like personalized, shaped armor for yourself. Idk what the market would be like I just think its a neat idea, then you could make your own thigh/shoulder armor that is like -perfectly- sized to you.. or a home-made crotch flap you could make exactly the shape of your pelvis/groinlike -DIY- but we make the materials so YOU manufacture it, take no direct responsibility except for the actual ballistic effect of your tiles, and people can make all sorts of stuff
>>64608983also forgot to add idk if >>64608761 has been the same anon making these detailed posts but you're doing the /k/ube a good service teaching your fellows of modern armor
>>64608983The trouble is the backer IMO. You're kind of forced to use unpressed PE or aramid, which would make for thick/heavy armor. And even that unpressed stuff is fucking expensive. I guess you could pull an RMA and use fiberglass, but come on man. A FRAS/Hexar/Pangolin panel made with fiberglass would be crazy thick and heavy.
>>64608983>like -DIY- but we make the materials so YOU manufacture it, take no direct responsibility except for the actual ballistic effect of your tiles, and people can make all sorts of stuffBased beyond belief. There's nothing stopping any of us from contacting armor manufacturers' suppliers and seeing which will deal to civilians. LTC / Hesco / RMA deal a lot lately with Bitossi, an Italian firm, for Alumina ceramics. Safelife also uses them for the scales in FRAS. The Chinese genuinely will sell anything to anyone for enough money. Stealth Armor Systems' ceramic supplier for Dragonskin and/or Hexar is Xiamen Wintrustek Advanced Materials. They recently outed themselves complaining on Stealth's youtube videos that Bain owes them money. Said comments were then deleted. >>64609002Glad to be of service.
>>64609053Getting basic ceramics is the easy part. A blast from the past, but didn't Blackbeard sell raw ceramics all the damn time?If I'm not mistaken, the trouble is that the backers and backing materials that are available to civvies fucking suck
>>64609018>Trouble is the backer IMONo way around that. You need the backer to catch fragments of rounds destroyed by the ceramic. In theory you could just make all your stuff ICW IIIA soft, but typical IIIA isn't a very strong backer by itself - nearly all modern ICW plates have some backer - you'll need excessively beefed ceramic and at that point it's like using a CPU to do the job of a GPU. Fundamentally inefficient.>And even that unpressed stuff is fucking expensiveBarring C-grade Chinese outfits like Shanghai H Win, your only other option is cannibalizing used / expired IIIA on fleabay - this is both dodgy and inconsistent. One set of not-Dragonskin gets good PE or Aramid from Armor Express or Safariland, the next gets some PE from a dodgy Chinese outfit that skipped town in 2012, another gets Zylon that went bad in 2002. I get it though if we're in some kind of dystopian future where body armor is banned nationwide (a la NY) and you have no other option. Keep in mind PE is white, aramid is yellow-golden, Zylon is dark gold. PE and Zylon were mixed together into what's called Z-SHIELD and that'll be a light gold. Some very high performance plates and soft armor used that in the late-90s to early 00s, and their performance was virtually unchallenged even today aside from the actually working part.>I guess you could pull an RMA and use fiberglass>"Nooo, that's polyethylene!" Said RMA, even though said Alumina "Hypure 99.7%" + alleged PE plate is about the same weight as a Hesco 4403 which is Alumina + Fiberglass like every other domestic CONUS budget Level IV.>A FRAS/Hexar/Pangolin panel made with fiberglass would be crazy thick and heavy.Yeah no, they don't even really use Fiberglass for shields anymore aside from the ultra-budget bracket.Unrelated, if you live in KEKED NY I'm pretty sure the law still permits you to own a ballistic shield since it isn't a ballistic item you "wear" - but IANAL and this isn't legal advice.
>>64609112Blackbeard last I checked is actually an unofficial offshoot of Point Blank that sold overrun materials. That infamous Blackbeard RF2+ plate is a failed contestant for the GEN-5B TSA/Overt bracket (contract to replace the B-32 API rated LTC 28595) and lost to the LTC 28570 and VelSys TSA, which are both superb and superior to it in virtually every way. Not to be turbo-autistic, but the Blackbeard does use a B4C-SiC hybrid ceramic, same as an ESAPI Revision G-J, while the 28570 and VelSys TSA use pure B4C, so in theory the Blackbeard may be less susceptible to amorphization and thus have a slightly better standoff capability against M995. Anyways, they had spare materials because they lost the contract, Blackbeard assembled them into plates. Sold them on the cheap. Best deal /k/ had on armor in ages, arguably better than the Ceradyne Defender 275s that the /bag/ oldies were buying up.>the trouble is that the backers and backing materials that are available to civvies fucking suckYeah, you're not getting 6000-series Spectra or Dyneema HB210 / HB212 as a regular joe. That's the top shelf shit LTC, Hesco, and Tencate are using for the flagship plates. It's going to be mostly basic stuff that (what are basically) garage operations like Gilliam and Stealth are using, which means you'll be hitting a performance ceiling quickly. Ceramics have been fundamentally the same for decades. There is little difference between the chemical makeup of the boron carbide in a VBAGT from 1968 and the boron carbide in an LTC 28570 from 2022. The backer is where the real weight savings are.
Decent price on a plate carrier?
>>64609229Anywhere from $150-400+ depending on desired features and what kind of carrier you like. Beez makes good cheap stuff. I roll a Tasmanian Tiger, others naturally go to Crye, Eagle, Ferro, VelSys, Defense Mechanisms. Stay away from the airshit stuff like Yakeda unless you want to look like pic related.
Nobody be this guy plz.
>>64609264>airshit> tasmanian tigerUh, anon, TT are literally an airshit brand and their stuff is jank.Also the black-and-green carrier in your pic is kino.
>>64609282Is that a third plate?
>>64609302>literally an airshit brandIt's not high speed but it's popular in Europe for good reason. The Russians knock off a lot of their chest rigs and what not. My TT vest is rock solid and holds a hilariously large amount of shit if I want it to, which is what I got it for.I will concede however it's jank until you adjust the velcro cummerbund, then it's great. Also I had to DIY side plate attachments and deltoids.>black-and-green carrier in your pic is kinoKino antifa?>>64609306Negative ghostrider, his back plate is falling out the back.
In other news, we've got good inferential info that Tac 11's stupidly expensive M855A1 plates are probably Hescos. They have a cute "data-backed" excuse as to why they don't have a Level IV plate in their lineup. Actual answer is probably that since the Hesco 4800 is already top-end Spectra + boron carbide there's no way to significantly improve on it, so their option is to sell the Hesco 4800 (which would obviously be the 4800) at dudebro markup or sell nothing. I see no BZ API rated plate, and I see no B-32 API rated plate, both of which are key SOCOM requirements and are actual data-driven OCONUS threats. In other words, their excuse is an excuse.
>>64609264This seem okay?https://kruschiki.com/products/idf-green-molle-plate-carrier-us-made
>>64609409Do you / they have the original OEM? It's mystery meat unless that's known. What is your objective with it?
Rate this guy's fit.
>>64604635Never got these. I understand direct knockoffs for shit like Spiritus where the product is just nylon and Tactical Engineering (TM), but Airlite is a laminate, designed to be inherently waterproof. It’s the point of the harness.>>64609332Is it, or is it an IOTV-style low-back pad? I honestly can’t tell. If it is, that’s on his partner just as much as it is him
>>64609584It's hard to see because the plate and PC are the same color, but the bottom velcro flap is out and the top of the platebag is all crumpled, so there isn't a plate in there. I think the dude is ICE but I'm not positive.
>>64609332> Negative ghostriderFather time over here (I know because we used to say that too).
>tfw you lose a pair of ESAPIs (?) on the streets of chicago because your shit was all fucked up, so they demote you to leotard duty
>>64609433They said its made by LIOR. I just just to throw some plates into for peace of mind, or if I ever have money to actually shoot more maybe in some armored division in a comp at most.
>>64609302I do kinda like TT's modular backpacks.
>>64609676If it's strictly for home defense duty and doesn't need to hold up in the field, then it's probably "fine" as long as you can don it quickly. Have you looked at some stuff from Beez? The BALCS LVBC can fit both soft and hard armor, for improved coverage purposes, and has built-in slots for six AR magazines.
>>64609644Is the leotard at least 3a?
>>64609722It's level V Goonerskin
>>64609733I never knew m993 was only 126gr. I know speed is what kills but is it some sort of lightweight super hard material?
>>64609754The core is dense tungsten carbide, which has both a hardness and sectional density advantage over typical steel penetrators. M995 / M993 were optimized for engaging light vehicles, so they aren't the cream of the crop when it comes to modern AP ammo. Their design originally dates back to the 1960s. Pic rel is a table I found that lists bullet mass, core mass (what the tungsten penetrator actually weighs) and then velocity. Compare to 7N37, which massively outperforms M993 against ceramics - M993 is handled consistently by XSAPI, Gilliam 8002, Tencate CX-950 IC, that TAS Xtreme plate, the Adept Colossus, LTC 28601. Swiss P AP is a cut above M993 and is only handled by the Colossus, Xtreme, Tencate CX-950 IC, and Gilliam 8002. Buffman tested 7N37 and it cleared the Colossus fine. There are only two claimed 7N37 stoppers, other than overkilling it with certain .50 cal plates. They're the FORT Technologies ACP-M and the Techinkom BR5+ enhanced Granit, and they're both at or over 9lb when used properly.
>>64609018Last piece of armor autism for today. Add another flexible armor to the list. from Verco Materials comes the 5.9lb, actually NIJ-certified MotilityMH. They have another certified model called the UrbanShieldMH. The first one is rated up to BZ API, M80A1, and 7.62x51mm M61 AP. It's composed of imbricated extra-hard boron carbide tiles. They'll make the shit in whatever size or shape ya want. Full-torso, BALCS, deltoid, thigh, neck, whatever.Obviously since this is boron carbide it's going to be expensive as balls. They also make shields you can roll up like a yoga mat. Pistol or rifle rated.
>>64609378> Ask us why we don't make an RF3 rated plate> Yeah, we make these plates to handle M855A1! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) > N-no, don't ask why we don't make a plate that can handle M80A1, B-32 API, or Bubba's .270!!!
>>64607604Ive had a early-2000s spotter ephod (similar to the rifleman setup, but with a big padded scope case stitched between the pack and the kidney pouch) for like a decade, they're a cool piece of gear history as a curiosity, but much like the smersh or M83, they're made for specific equipment and when you try to use other shit you start running into walls with fitment and access. Theyre extremely comfy on account of all the padding, but the downside is that shit is a sponge for sweat that takes days to dry and makes your clothes stay damp. Idk, buy it if you think its neat, or dont.
>>64609979The tile shape looks to be full of stress concentration spots. No ricochets for you, these will catch all of the bullet all the time, and break almost every time. But the mechanical flex linkage is cool. How thick is it? Maybe it can go into the soft armor spaces on current carriers?
>>64609519Yoooo I remember that thread. Good times.
>>64610622Apparently the CIA special activities division and the other three letters never run into anything hotter than M855A1.IMO Hesco could release an M80A1 / M855A1 / B32 boron carbide plate probably at 4.6lb SAPI M or 4.4lb Swimmer, but it wouldn't have any meaningful distinction from the LTC 28570 - probably why they don't do it.>>64611051Probably no more than 0.6" but I'm eyeballing it. It's a huge-ass weight penalty versus normal soft and the full torso cuts will probably run close to 10lb if not over.
>>64600642Atleast the handles are oriented correctly so you wont btfo your wrists like many rams.
>>64611553Listen son, that ram was designed by a swat operator for defeating cartel field reinforced doors in the dangerous War on Drugs. It descends from the bloodline of Ronnie Reagan himself.
>>64611515> Apparently the CIA special activities division and the other three letters never run into anything hotter than M855A1.Old statistics and fighting the last war. Apart from the 7N10, which is practically equal to M855A1, literally everything the Chinese and Russians use is hotter. There are also a lot of hotter CONUS threats.
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