It's been 2 months...https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hidden-hangars-navys-fa-xx-could-decide-china-fight-trump-moves-now
>>64590570The worst time is after the selection is made. If a protest is filed then nothing can happen while it works its way through the system.
>>64590880>If a protest is filed then nothing can happen while it works its way through the system.In the case of a major program like F/A-XX there would be valid reasons for the government to override that stoppage requirement. It might still need to be reviewed by a judge to be 100% sure, but it would be unlikely to result in a full on work stoppage for a program like F/A-XX that the Navy would posit is vital to national security and can't afford months/years of delays. However, it's obviously a case-by-case basis.
Which designs are still in the running?
>>64591191Boeing and Northrop, though most people seem to think Northrop has it in the bag. Especially given Boeing already has the F-47, lockheed has the F-35 program that'll keep them fed for the next 30-40 years, so that leaves Northrop and the US doesn't want one of the 3 prime contractors to have a monopoly on 6th gen fighters like lockheed had(has) with the 5th gen fighters.
>>64591211No way is Boeing gettie it after being handed the freebie if F-47. Imagine the state of the USAF relying on Boeing in 2035.
>>64591221BCA≠BDS
>>64590570Does it really have top intakes or is that some artist being a retard?
>>64590570uh, probably sometime in the late 2030s with how much of a shitshow american procurement has been in recent years.
>>64591211There is apparently a fair degree of concern at DoD about Northrop Grumman not having an active fighter production line running. It’s also rumored that Boeing may have been the Navy front runner before the Air Force awarded NGAD potentially complicating things. Remember they did absorb McDonnell Douglas, who were arguably the leading fighter design shop in the US for most of the Cold War, and seem to have inherited their good relationship with the Navy. While I do want Northrop Grumman to win, the constant delays suggest they’re having a very hard time in choosing now. >>64591252The renders from the contractors have shown dorsal intakes pretty consistently going back a while. From what’s been said publicly F/A-XX is meant to be a more strike than fighter sort of platform, and dorsal intakes have some positive impacts as regards stealth and available volume in the lower fuselage for weapon bays if you’re willing to accept the negative impacts on maneuverability.
>>64591287>the constant delays suggest they’re having a very hard time in choosing now.Probably also has something to do with the program reportedly having been canceled. I imagine it's very quick and easy to reassign engineers after losing a contract but takes a while to get everyone back and up to speed if it suddenly gets uncanceled. And I bet any delay from either competitor or the Navy themselves can hold up everyone else as well.
>>64591315I think the issue is more that Congress has failed to pass an updated budget in two years, so everything has to run on continuing resolutions and top up spending bills. The Air Force managed to make room in their budget for NGAD, but the Navy has a much worse crunch and has to choose between modernizing their ships or their planes. In theory they could probably do both if ship procurement wasn’t the worst mess in the military, but unfortunately it is so aviation is left to languish. If Congress ever gets around to actually passing the FY2026 budget the program should be fine, since last I heard it had significant funding in the defense draft bill, but up until that point I don’t think they can award the contract since there’s simply no money to pay for it.
>>64591252The dorsal intakes are closer to the sides than they are to the back so they can get vortices up to about 30° AOA theoretically
>>64591252NG dorsal intake design goes way back.
>>64593147The fact that NG went from a hump to a slit with the intakes on the B-21 just blows my mind.
>>64594560I think the hump on the B-2 was because they were forced by Congress to make the thing way bigger than initially planned.
>>64591233nah
>>64591371Realistically we just need someone to get Trump to hyperfixate on it.
>>64594578Wasn't that for the space shuttle?
>>64591191YF-23 :^)
>>64590570It's fucking over. Stupid kegsbreath.>Bloomberg obtained just yesterday a November 18 letter to the US Congress in which US Defense Secretary (SecDef) Pete Hegseth continues to voice his opposition to the Navy selecting a contractor for this effort anytime soon.https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-navys-f-a-xx-6th-generation-fighter-crisis-has-arrived/?hl=en-US
>>64598943What a cunt, an absolute walking sack of unqualified shit pretending his insights are in any way useful to the US.
>>64598957i don't know what anyone expected, fox news is basically reformer-TV, watch them try to revive the F-5 because it wins sometimes in training exercises.
>>64598943Fuck this retarded cunt
>>64598943Hegseethe saw picrel and be like>"we are seeking for conflicts"https://www.reuters.com/world/china/hegseth-tells-china-first-call-that-us-is-not-seeking-conflict-2025-09-10/the weak really fears the strong. A sensible decision.
>>64598957Congress needs to do the same thing they did for the E-7 STRAT.
>>64600693They probably will, but it takes time and political will.
>>64598943Dudes gonna cancel the entire armed forces at this rate
>>64600693McConnell just wrote a scathing op-ed against Hegseth and called out specifically how hard he’s fucking up F/A-XX. According to him we’re already eating a few hundred million in fees on the contract delay. There’s funding for F/A-XX and a plus up for F-47 in the Senate draft of the FY2026 but the budget as a whole is taking forever to come together despite broad bipartisan support for increased defense spending.
>>64600711The whole industrial base argument makes zero sense too. Regardless if Boeing or NG won, they both have enough factory space and workers. Both have more than enough supply chains and the F/A-XX will use a conventional derivative engine so it won't even eat into GE/P&W which are focusing on the F-47's XA-102/103 engines now. Even the engineers with clearances deficit argument makes no sense, the B-21 is entering LRIP with the brunt of the work done and probably only a fifth of the engineers are actively tied up in the B-21 program.
>>64600740He’s just not suited for the job unfortunately. I doubt he’ll be willing to budge from his current position for the sole reason that it’s his position. F/A-XX can be done for all the reasons you said, and really needed to be awarded in March with NGAD because the Super Hornet fleet it will be replacing is rapidly starting to age out of its useful service life and Boeing is shutting down the line that would build replacements. Phelan I’m a lot more bullish on, since despite his lack of experience he seems to at least be taking concrete steps to address the shipbuilding issue that aren’t retarded on their face, but Hegseth needs to go. I’m just worried about who he’d be replaced with, since Trump seems unwilling to hire retired generals this go around. Shame he hates McMaster now, since he’s had some pretty good takes on the Hoover Institute podcasts.
lmao, shill 'defense blogs' claim its already in production
>>64600846>the Super Hornet fleet it will be replacing is rapidly starting to age out of its useful service life and Boeing is shutting down the line that would build replacements.Super Hornet Block III is brand new, though, and the Navy is buying new ones right now.
>>64600900Are you thinking of NGAD?
>>64600916Sure, but the line shutters in 2027 and F/A-XX probably doesn’t enter service until the mid 2030s if everything goes well, which so far it isn’t. By the time it’s ready to enter the fleet the oldest Super Hornets are going to be on their very last legs, and every unnecessary delay we eat now just makes that situation worse.
>>64600923>Are you thinking of NGAD?LMAO, nopehttps://www.foxnews.com/opinion/hidden-hangars-navys-fa-xx-could-decide-china-fight-trump-moves-now>"oday that plane – known only as F/A-XX or fighter attack, experimental – is ready to go. Both Boeing and Northrop Grumman have flown test planes. Their prototypes are waiting in the wings; or rather, in discreet guarded hangars, most likely in Missouri and Florida. ">"The Navy has not let us see photographs of the F/A-XX, obviously."
>>64600916That's their last 17-jet order when they should be ordering more F-35Cs.
>>64600949Doesn't say they're in production, though. They're most definitely conflating demonstrators with prototypes.
>>64600971They can get the Hornets now, though. F-35s are booked out for years, and the Navy is required to have at least 9 full carrier air wings so they can't just let their force shrink in the meantime.
>>64600990>Doesn't say they're in production, though. They're most definitely conflating demonstrators with prototypes.it insinuates it, which was my first point you illiterate shill
>>64601374You could say the same about every other outlet calling the chink fighters in production so it's just spotty journalism.
>>64600846Personally I'm really hopeful Trump will be so tired of Hegseth's bullshit that we can get Gallagher as a dark horse. But I have to admit Phelan will probably be next in line, at the very least he's promising to fix the fucking shipwreck that is NAVSEA. Also scaling up the hellscape drones and CCAs, just drones in general. Politics is so gay, I wish people were chosen based on merit.
>>64598943I hate the stupid name calling type bullshit. Genuinely this admin and Hegseth are wildly unqualified and unable to pick the correct platforms and unable to defer to those who can right now and I’m pretty pissed because I think our tech industry is genuinely at risk because of it (which pays for basically everything right now)
Never
>BoeingPraying to go it isnt them as they are already going to fuck up the F-47
>>64590570You will get nothing but implessive artist renderings and you will like it.
>>64608050Quite the contrary. Their X-Plane was flying 3 years early since 2019 and progress has been smooth since then.
>>64608077>Their X-Plane was flying 3 years early since 2019can I see it?
>>64608194No. They made that clear since 2020.
>>64606255This can't possibly be worse than the fucking around the MIC did in the sandbox
>>64603749>Personally I'm really hopeful Trump will be so tired of HegsethI think Trump learned his lesson about letting people go that he like during his first time as president. Hegseth is here to stay unfortunately>>64606255> Genuinely this admin and Hegseth are wildly unqualifiedTrump pardoned a dude because he thought the guy would be so grateful and such an asskisser that he would flip from team blue to team red. The guy stayed on the Democratic ticket and now Trump is seething about it on Truth social
>>64603749Hegseth was picked by the Heritage Foundation guys who helped Trump get elected and stay out of jail. He's doing what they say so he can spend his twilight years golfing and jetsetting on the taxpayers dime. If he starts disrupting their carefully laid plans too much they'll probably fast track Vance's succession.
>>64606255>Genuinely this admin and Hegseth are wildly unqualifiedAlmost like that was the point.
New funding bill are out:>The House draft legislation “authorizes over $38 billion for the development, procurement, or modification of aircraft” that includes “full funding for the Air Force’s F-47 and Navy’s F/A-XX 6th Generation Aircraft programs,”*sigh* They never learn.
>>64608194Sorry, it's invisible.
>>64612371Doubled EMD budget, nice.
>>64612371Good, fuck hegseth
>>64600846I wish the deep state and the glowies were actually as powerful as the memes suggest so they could hegseth could hurry up and have some sort of unfortunate accident already.
>>64606255Is there even anyone competent in this administration?
>>64615565Bessent?
>>64591252Maybe
>>64608058How about unimpressive AI renderingsProve to me that this is somehow a design flaw.
>>64594578Pretty sure it was the USAF that made this decision. One AF fag was telling LockMart smaller and longer range, the other AF fag was telling NG that bigger and more bombs. Bigger and more bombs ended up winning out. Hilarious to hear how Ben Rich presents the NGB program as some retarded boondoggle compared to how we think of it now.>>64618475Crazy this thing actually flew. Maybe it was only 400mph, but goddamn if it didn't actually fly.
>>64615565Maybe Craig Wright? I can't honestly think of anyone from the last 3 or 4 administrations that was actually qualified for a cabinet level position outside of maybe Powell, Rice, Stephen Chu, and Rumsfeld (who would have thought that shit). I don't think "qualified" and "cabinet level positions" have intersected in quiet sometime except in a few fringe cases.
>american procurementimplessive
>>64590570>US lawmakers poised to approve 84% funding cut to US Navy’s F/A-XX sixth-generation fighterIt is now more over than you ever could have thought possiblehttps://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-lawmakers-poised-to-approve-84-funding-cut-to-us-navys-f/a-xx-sixth-generation-fighter/165635.article
>>64621963>cue the american posters who kept saying that china couldn't have leapfrogged them with 6th gen plane adoption
>>64621963>he doesn't know about the FY26 Appropriations billBoth the both House and Senate appropriators want to fund the plane with figures of above $1b. Appropriators get the final say.
>>64623455>FY26 Appropriations billI actually didn't know about this, that's reassuring. I still really wish they would pick a manufacturer already though.
>>64623455>>64623672The appropriators agreed to the $74M funding level, not the $1B+ one.Yes, they DID want $1.4B initially, then ~$970M, then there was an attempt to do a supplemental bill that would've added $750M to the $74M that was appropriated, but that bill didn't pass either. So the final FY26 funding for F/A-XX is $74, or basically just enough to keep the lights on. The program is essentially on hold for at least the next 11 months.
>>64623728The appropriations deadline is Jan 30, 2026. They've still got time to fight it out and for Boeing and Northrop Grumman to lobby. It'll still be running on the continuing resolution of $450m/y of last year. I have confidence that the lobbying from the contractors and senators will crush Hegseth by next month when he is struggling with criminal charges.
>>64623743The NDAA passed the House yesterday and is expected to pass in the Senate before Christmas. The current bill was created by a joint committee from both chambers and thus it's unlikely to be altered further. The only slight upside is the bill DOES include $377M for "Link Plumera" which is the Special Access Program name for F/A-XX program. Which brings the total combined FY26 funding level to $451M. Though it should be noted the FY25 budget had $454M in the NDAA for F/A-XX and $346M for Link Plumera. Which was a combined ~$800M. So the FY26 budget essentially cuts F/A-XX funding in half compared to FY25, but the FY25 was already cut by more than 2/3rds from the FY24 budget ($3B from $1.5B in the F/A-XX line item and $1.4B in the classified SAP line item ). FY24: ~$3BFY25: ~$800MFY26: ~$451MNot a great sign.
>>64623728>just $74 fucking dollarsI can't fucking understand this mindset, we can't just stick with the superbug all throughout the 2030s...
>>64623840The argument being made is the F-47 is more important and that the wider industrial base can't sustain two simultaneous 6th gen fighter programs.
>>64623907Which just makes it all the more annoying, surely the F-35 even without the block 4 upgrade and the F-22 are adequate for the airforce's needs
>>64623907>and that the wider industrial base can't sustain two simultaneous 6th gen fighter programs.But everyone with a fucking brain knows that this is wrong
>>64624096From everything i've read from dozens of sources over the last several years, my interpretation is that the current administration thinks the F-47 fielded from land-based airfields (Japan/Philippines) is more important for deep penetration into chinese airspace than the F/A-XX will be.From what I understand, the CURRENT plan is to finish F-47 development and get production well underway and then start F/A-XX backup in full with hopefully only a ~3-6 year delay.
>>64624096The Air Force doesn't think the F-22 is useful at all anymore (or at least not useful enough to keep around taking up space), they've been trying to retire them but Congress won't let them.But yes, I agree that the Air Force has all the toys they need and the Navy really needs a sixth gen in the works. People don't want to hear this, but the B21 is capable of doing all the jobs the F47 is planned for, maneuverability isn't important and speed isn't that big of a deal when the CCAs that these high end aircraft are supposed to operate alongside aren't particularly fast either. The actual number of sixth gens doesn't need to be particularly large anyway because their role is to secure air dominance immediately so that F35s backed up by B1s and B52s with standoff munitions can begin the systematic destruction of the enemy's forces. The Air Force is planning to buy 200 F47s because it's not really feasible to do all of the development work and then only divide it across a couple dozen airframes, but a much smaller number of B-21s could likely do the same job, offsetting the much higher unit cost and allowing the R&D funds to be diverted to the F/A-XX.
>>64624196>they've been trying to retire them but Congress won't let them.That's not really true.They've been trying to retire some of the non-combat rated airframes that were never upgraded to combat level and have never been used outside of training and airshows because of this.They're expensive to maintain and since they're not the same hardware/software standard as the rest of the F-22 fleet, it just creates more logistical headaches that cost money. THOSE are the only F-22s the airforce has tried to retire.
>>64624196>>64624211Those are gonna be upgraded with ARES anyway. https://warriormaven.com/news/air/pentagon-to-resurrect-upgrade-sustain-block-20-f-22-raptors
>>64624219To be fair, the airforce always said that was an option, but they argued it was too expensive to be worth it, the US finds itself in a position where they think an extra 3 dozen F-22s will be worth the ~$3.5-4B it'll cost to upgrade them. To be clear though, while ARES has been funded for the existing F-22 combat fleet, the ARES upgrade has not been decided to be applied to the remaining Block 20 airframes, it's still being discussed as a future option.
>>64624219This guy has another article talking about buying more B-2s in 2025 so I'm not sure how much to trust his version of facts.
>>64624141>F-47 fielded from land-based airfields (Japan/Philippines) is more important for deep penetration into chinese airspace than the F/A-XX will be.So they're banking on the assumption that the airfields in the area will still be usable? That's a very risky bet.
>>64624276Basically, yeah.
>>64624262better sauce if you want>https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/the-air-force-will-soon-have-32-additional-f-22-combat-ready-raptor-fighters/But it's pretty much what >>64624229 said, I peg a pretty high chance of it happening though.
>>64624286Thanks
>>64623907>that the wider industrial base can't sustain two simultaneous 6th gen fighter programsUSA is small independent country, pls understand
>>64624334The argument i've seen being used is more in regards to the engines and other high tech components being the bottleneck and if they have two competing programs going at the same time they'll end up with similar total parts being made, but fewer useable airframes (navalized fighters generally require lengthier testing/evaluation and potentially expensive modifications to launch/arrest the new aircraft type that can delay final operational capability years after a regular land based fighter would be in service.
>>64624340So you're telling me that the naval fighter will be ready for full-rate protection around the same time that the ground-based fighter is finishing its production run?
>>64623907>>64624140>>64624340I've posted this before and I'll post it again:>The whole industrial base argument makes zero sense too. Regardless if Boeing or NG won, they both have enough factory space and workers. Both have more than enough supply chains and the F/A-XX will use a conventional derivative engine so it won't even eat into GE/P&W which are focusing on the F-47's XA-102/103 engines now. Even the engineers with clearances deficit argument makes no sense, the B-21 is entering LRIP with the brunt of the work done and probably only a fifth of the engineers are actively tied up in the B-21 program. On Boeing's side the F/A-18 line is shutting down so there's a massive group of engineers and floor workers ready to move on to a new plane.It's either a funding problem or a political one. I'm leaning political.
>>64624355No, but by the time the naval fighter IS entering production, they'll have had time to scale the F-47 production up to handle it better.
>>64624377Well, considering the Air Force is only planning to buy 180 F-47s, I'd imagine by the time they have production fully scaled up it won't take them long to finish their run. Then the Navy can take over and they won't be competing for the same engines.
>>64624386Honestly just depends how far they scale production, if they cap out at 20-30 airframes in a year then it'll still take awhile to hit the 180 mark. But yes, the point remains, the F-47 should be full stride or just about to start winding down, when the F/A-XX is entering full-rate production.
>>64624386They aren’t even competing for the same engines. The Admirals have been saying it would use a derivative of an existing engine since before the “industrial base concern” line started popping up. Rumor I’ve heard is probably the F110 would be used as the base. This whole thing just comes down to Trump’s Pentagon appointees being retarded. I would guess the House folded on the budget because enough of them are terrified of losing their seats in the midterms and are afraid of losing the Trump endorsement by going against him, since the Senate bill was a lot meatier while the reconciliation is basically the budget request with a very small top up. However the midterms are going to be an absolute massacre for House Republicans, probably worse than 2018 so it’s just fucking things up for no eventual benefit.
>>64624407At 30 a year that's 6 years of production. Say it takes a couple of years to ramp up to full production and it takes 4 or 5 years for the naval fighter to complete testing and validation and NGAD production can taper as FAXX ramps in. Plus if >>64624419 is correct then the components they're actually competing for are fairly limited, and the modular, upgradeable nature of the programs probably means they can start building airframes at a fast rate early on and start dropping radar modules and stuff into them as they become available.
>we are going to pivot to IndoPacific>we are also going to treat our next gen naval fighter as a secondary concernMake it make sense
>>64625539america is run by retards, next question
>>64625703Wrong, America is broke.
actually the US can put almost as much money into defence as china, the problem is the local industry runs at 1/20th the efficiency so they get 1/20th the good delivered for every procurement USD spend.And it takes 5 times as long.This is a direct quote from a USAF general in charge of procurement.
>>64626278>wumao, wumaoing so hard the wumao scale broke and now Chang will have to copy another one from the US (who is 50-100+ years ahead of him at this point)many, many such cases>pic relatedooops* sorry chang, didnt notice that was your 6th-gen™would be a shame if it got *splash-mogged* from beyond-chinky-range wouldnt it...hmmm?thats what i thought slant eyed wumaos
>>64626314that 5 degree cant on the pylons ... what a flying fucking disaster this shitheap is. you can see it even from a side view.this pic belongs into the wiki article for "drag" broso fucking embarrassing to fly with a 1960's SAM on your 4th gen failed light fighter competition design ... unfathomable chain of procurement blunders.
>>64626314https://www.twz.com/china-acquiring-new-weapons-five-times-faster-than-u-s-warns-top-official
>>64626351>so fucking embarrassing to fly with a 1960's SAM on your 4th gen failed light fighter competition design ... unfathomable chain of procurement blunders.>>64626355>https://www.twz.com/china-acquiring-new-weapons-five-times-faster-than-u-s-warns-top-officiallmao, yet again more wumao seethe, punching air and flipping over his table of dog-soupoh and>"twz"lmao, next time are you gunna quote forbes or some tamil-military blog?its just a about hands-post o'clock, and I want to see your light socket in the screenshotuntill then...?the rest of your posts are pending validity while mine are the Gospel according to JOHN
>>64626355>check authors previous articles>it's all the tmz spam that's been posted here recentlystop shilling your shit here thomas smalldick
>>64626355>2022Any more implessive 4 year old articles you want to spam here?https://warontherocks.com/2025/11/racing-against-time-realizing-a-true-defense-industrial-enterprise/
>"muh AI parade is evidence of my superiority!">t. Changlmao, the west-taiawan cig wumao exposition of the worlds finest fleet of copy+pasted .webps and .avifs ever assembled
>>64626381>>64626399its just Hong-ZHO from Indiana province postingLmao>just slap a disco-ball on its nose, jam the red couch cushions into the fiberglass square and tape the last 4 digits of your phone number on the side and the Amelicans will be none the wiser!
>>64625539>pivot to IndoPacificGet with the times. All the new rage now is "securing the homeland" or whatever the fuck that means
>>64626442Same vibe as them showing off their implessive drone back in 2019 with the exhaust deck painted over. It only entered 'service' (two five second clips of it flying next to a manned plane doing nothing) this year.
>>64623772FAXX is a badly designed program, even by Navy standards. So if the cuts hold, this is good news.
>>64626750LMFAO go ahead and justify your opinion here, i'll gladly wait for you to make yourself look retarded.
>>64626400This clip gets me every time.>temu Sentinel>temu Reaper>temu Valkyrie>temu Fire ScoutYou made this? No, I made this.
>>64626806>You made this? No, I made this.who makes this tho....?is that a copy of the F47?
>>64626821That is a tech demonstrator without any subsequent production. Would you like to suggest the Russian Air Force is operationally flying the Su-47 because one exists?
>>64626821Just like the J-20, it'll be superseded by an actual clone of the F-47 after they steal the blueprints.
>>64626842Imagine thinking China is above putting untested prototypes into volume production.
>>64626842>That is a tech demonstratorsince when do they have original designs so advanced?and that wasnt my questionI asked you what it was a copy of
>>64626821>>64626842>That is a tech demonstrator without any subsequent productionlooks pretty advanced for a 'tech demonstrator without any subsequent production'..........
>>64626931No it doesn't, it looks just like a tech demonstrator would look.What visual indicators would YOU expect to see for a tech demonstrator that you're NOT seeing here?
>>64626931You are retarded. The J-36 is further along than the incompetent Shenyang niggers and they still changed the intakes from caret to DSI, changed the gear fairing and added TVC. You don't serialize, much less decide on a production prototype when the OML is still changing. Both planes are several years from serial prototyping no matter what your disingenuous ass says.
>>64600846I like how we are preparing for a major naval war, the Navy is reeling from thirty years of being the last dog at the bowl and forces by congress to build three nonsensical ship designs they never wanted, then forced by congress to modify the one they wanted with additional capabilities they did not need the platform to have (TLAM), while on the air side, our drone tanker which would have stopped the bleeding on the strike fighter shortfall was canceled, congress has not allowed an Aviator to be CNO in 26 years even though its supposed to rotate between major warfare groups, and literally nobody in the Navy today was alive the last time the Navy got to request a design to its own specifications for TACAIR, and their suggestion is hey, Navy we will build some icebreakers and a new LST! Like what the fuck are you talking about. Shit is fucked. Then certified non genius hegseth always chalk it up to hypersonic missiles like dude, if hypersonics make CVNs dead meat, what the fuck do you think they are going to do to your static airfields and hangers which cannot maneuver at all, and have trivial air defenses compared to the CSG? So our budget gets slashed again, given to the USAF again, so they can build shit that will be scrap metal 25 minutes into day one, or zoned out so far they have like one sortie per hull every other day. Moronical.The smart move would be to cancel the Sentinel, that frees up a shitload of money, and move to an all at sea and bombers nuclear force. The sponge theory never remotely made sense. Then pour that money into aviation first, then shipbuilding.
>>64627009>The smart move would be to cancel the SentinelNever gonna happen as long as boomers are alive even if Vance becomes president today. Boomers are so fucking irrational, we should just kill them all.
Has west taiwan re-engined all the j20 with the ws 15 engines?
>>64591233true, BDS is worse than BCA at times
>>64626750>>64626754NTA and I would not say badly designed necessarily but the gouge going around tailhook was there were two competing concepts (not designs), the VLO long range blended wing one which seems to have won out, and a fleet defender type that went all out on propulsion and power generation and range. The idea being that a mach 3-4.5 interceptor would generate faster sortie rates, was better for handling pop up late detection threats, and would have basically the same survivability in contested airspace because its fast as fuck. As a bonus, unlike with F-47 etc, which is boned after VLO is defeated, you are defeating the interceptor not the waveform with speed so in terms of munitions burn the speedy boi is much more expensive to target, and aside from cost could force enemy AW DDGs/CGs to burn most of their VLS for limited effects. Its not clear if that concept was shelved because it was thought to be flawed, because the needed turbines where not ready yet, that in general the propulsion was not technologically mature, or because the Air Force would ragequit and defect to Haiti if the Navy got a Son of Tomcat that could supercruise at Mach 3.5. So if it was actually a tech readiness issue, personally I'm glad to see it delayed so that maybe the second option becomes a possibility. It makes more sense to me, VLO is basically your shaping and surfaces vs compute power and that ratio is getting worse every day. But son of Tomcat would sidestep all that, because you cant chatgpt your way out of raw kinematics for interception probability. With the kind of thrust needed for that, your agb is going to be producing as much electricity as you could ask for so it would almost certainly have at least a defensive DEW to make missile pK even worse. Which hurts because only the very top end SAMs could even attempt an interception, so thats a money bonfire, and it literally cannot be hit by a majority of SAMs at all if the aviator isnt a total fucking spaz.
>>64627009>The smart move would be to cancel the Sentinel, that frees up a shitload of moneyGAO says that the only cheaper option than Sentinel is getting out of the ICBM game entirely.
Is DSI intake the only type of intake for next gen aircraft now?
>>64627325Tejas will still have a diverter when it's updated to sixth gen if that makes you feel better.
>>64627020>Vance becomes presidentbetter or worse than Trump?
>>64627303Yeah that is what I'm proposing. The sponge logic for silo ICBMS was always very questionable. If youre going to get buttfucked by SLBMs in a second strike no matter what, does it really matter that you are also getting buttfucked by silo ICBMs. I mean you're already dead so what is the point in a countervalue situation, and counterforce makes no sense because the same logic of the SLBMs delivering a deep dicking regardless still applies. It was always a petty oh no, the Navy can't be the only strategic missile force, we demand an extremely expensive, less effective, and vastly less survibable redundant system for no reason.
>>64627009The entire idea that the US needs to be or even can be able to project power in front of china's porch is moronic.China has more economic power and has closed the technology gap almost entirely basically everywhere and even achieved technology overmatch in some areas.Their doctrine is clear, their politics are set with very long-term goals, and their procurement is very streamlined and efficient and in line with their doctrine and political agenda.The US should focus on something achievable and get their shit together, but they're still thinking they can still somehow dominate asia. Well they can't.
>>64627655Oh no, I am vely demoralized. What ever will America do now.
>>64627655>The entire idea that the US needs to be or even can be able to project power in front of china's porch is moronic.Fortunately we don't have to get up in their grill. It will likely be a distant maritime intervention campaign to force them to bring their fleet out from under the A2D2 umbrella, or have all seaborne economic inputs and outputs cut, which is not a survivable event for their regime over relatively short periods of time. We can sort of debate whether or not the USN could fight inside that bubble and win, I think that is sort of ambiguous and contingent, but in either case its not really necessary. And outside of their chosen prepared combat area the PLAN has much much worse odds against USN/USMC/USAF. To claim they dont need those inputs and outputs, that the regime can survive without them, that the USN would be incapable of stopping them, or that the PLAN is heavily degraded in combat power outside their missile bubble are not realistic positions and veer firmly into fantasy.
>>64627659>What ever will America do now.decline?
>>64627681China is shitting out 052Ds, 055's, and building their first nuke carrier while gaining experience with EMALS right now.They have 230x the ship building capacity the US have, and their VLS systems have 200% the volume of US VLS systems, because they have 9 meter long hypersonic anti-ship missiles in them.China can just build a fleet 200% the size of the USN with technology that overmatches what the US has, and the US cannot afford to build a fleet that size. Even if the US could afford it, the ship building capability has seemingly been lost. The last couple USN procurements were a complete disaster and there is no end in sight.Sure the PLAN will not manage to secure shipping routes right now if the US vowes to sink chinese ships, but what exactly do you think is the game plan there? The west is 100% dependent on chinese goods, china is not as dependent on the west. They can go full isolationism and be fine very soon.Russia did it.
>>64627704>>64627704Yes, yes, all very implessive. So why aren't they building warships 230x faster than the US?
>>64627333lmao
>>64627722This is a delusional response. It conflate two scenarios. You are acting like in a fight tonight situation, china will have instantly leveraged its yards to magic away the USNs 22 aircraft carriers compared to your 3.5. Or the vast superiority of Seawolf/Virginia, the fact that most of your SSK force cannot even reach the battle area, and a million other things that shatter your copes. Second, we import discretionary consumer goods from China, which can easily be sourced from other markets. You import inelastic essential commodities that your country literally cannot function without. And your entire merchantilist economy is premised on export profits, so you are getting double fucked by a maritime intervention. And we don't even lose those goods, we are just jacking your shit and you can't do fuck about it. If we are talking ten years from now, what is your dept to GDP? 600%? Already at 300 and screaming up. Youth unemployment 50%? Lol. That sounds like a socially stable base that won't mind their entire economy getting turned off. And I'm sure the party members won't tie Pooh to a chair and throw him off a building when all of their kids wives etc studying in NATO get picked up by the FBI. Thats not even touching how fucked you would be in the actual fighting, that is just baseline you already lost but go for it retards lmaoo
>>64628088>This is a delusional response. It conflate two scenarios. You are acting like in a fight tonight situation, china will have instantly leveraged its yards to magic away the USNs 22 aircraft carriersThey'll do that with dongfeng hypersonics.>compared to your 3.5.I am obviously not chinese. Stop trolling. Chinks have terrible english, especially the shills.>Or the vast superiority of Seawolf/VirginiaWhat superiority?>Second, we import discretionary consumer goods from China, which can easily be sourced from other markets.lol. basically nobody outside china can do high power electronics anymore, that's how bad it is.>You import inelastic essential commodities that your country literally cannot function without.China is rapidly approaching self sufficiency in all sectors, what china imports is basically mostly raw materials which it can and will produce domestically soon.China's dependence on high-tech imports is rapidly going to 0.
>>64628088ty for this anon, I was lazy and just said >>64627734. To add to this, Chinese SSNs are as loud as 80s Soviet subs and their SSBNs only patrol at most one at a time for half the year within their territorial waters. Chinese manufacturing investments and profits are also going down despite +6% yoy increase in volume. Really painful stuff for exporters.
>>64628117I'm pretty sure this faggot is the contrarian dropout from the War With Japan thread. He spent 3 hours sweating and convulsing at his keyboard last time.
>economy depends on exporting cheap shit to the west>going anywhere near the word isolationismLol
>>64628117>They'll do that with dongfeng hypersonicToday? You mean the DF-17 that was first revealed like 2 months ago and surely has been adapted for containerization, integrated into the ships fire control system, and manufactured enough to fill any VLS? lol cope. This also does nothing for the fundamental problem of hypersonics. You have to see the enemy to kill the enemy. You can have a bazillion mile range, but if you don't know where he is, youre SOL. Given our SM3 is an asat cosplaying as an ABM, any chink overhead optical/rorsat/whatever is going to be deleted instantly. And oh shit, we have how much more orbital lift capacity than you? Hahaha embarrassing. That isn't even getting into the tactical side, you have to find us. We know where you will be eventually because you have to go there to get to us. Are you starting to understand how prolapsed your ass is going to be before you even (if you ever survive that long) make contact with the fleet? By marine littoral regiments dug in everywhere we know you will have to transit, minefields that make Ukraine look like a McDonalds ballpit, random hit and runs by USAF ACC operating out of the nine billion bases we have all along your line of advance because every one of those countries hates you? The real nightmare scenario for the USN is that you get so fucked by logistics, sweeping under fire, and ASCM harassment from littorals that we get blueballed again and you're all dead before we can shoot you. Also literally everything else you said is patently false, and shows signs of total psychosis. Go away chink troll
>>64628124>Chinese SSNs are as loud as 80s Soviet subssource?
>>64628234>Chinkazoid is at shillcon 1What embarrassed West Taiwan today?
>>64628234It really is quite implessive at how bad chink subs are.https://www.andrewerickson.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/CMSI_China-Maritime-Report_30_A-Brief-Technical-History-of-PLAN-Nuclear-Submarines_Carlson-Wang_202308.pdf
>>64628234Because half of their SSBNs were literally designed by Soviets in the 1980s. Who were modifying the 1970s Kilo Class. Not so much "as loud as" but "is a Soviet sub from the 1980s".
>>64628211>>They'll do that with dongfeng hypersonic>Today? You mean the DF-17 that was first revealed like 2 months agoDF-17 has been in service since 2019.>and surely has been adapted for containerization, integrated into the ships fire control systemBro DF-26 has 5000km range, in service since 2016, they can nuke the USN out of half of the pacific from home turf without anything leaving port.If you are so uninformed, why even post?>and manufactured enough to fill any VLS? lol cope.Type 055 carries YJ-21 with 1500km range in it's 850mm VLS cells, in service since 2022.They build 8, they're now building another 8. Destroyers, not missiles.How's your Tico replacement going? More burkes with 653mm VLS? What do they have for anti-shipping, subsonic turbofan seaskimmers? lmao.>You have to see the enemy to kill the enemy.China knows where every single US ship is at all times due to global satellite coverage.>Given our SM3 is an asatCan only reach extremely low orbits, and china has hundreds of sats, most in unreachable orbits. You only need to fly really low for optical recon with high resolution (read numberplate memes) to find a CSG you could put your sat geostationary.Since you know NOTHING, asat/SM can reach a couple 100km, but not a couple 1000km, and geostationary sats are at 36,000km altitude.>And oh shit, we have how much more orbital lift capacity than you?SpaceX is indeed a huge advantage the US holds temporarily. Hence why china handed every single space company with orbital aspirations a couple billion $ a while back and why they're trying to land their very own reusable falcon 9 copy right the fuck now with being really close to successful landings. Even that advantage is melting rapidly.I am not chinese. Someone intelligent could tell from the language.
>chinkshill ran away from the other thread just to seethe in herelol
>>64628256That's an "engineering estimate" from ONI's 1996 sub challenge. Did you actually read that? In there they admit that they have "no data" and made "educated guesses" including guesses about a sub which didn't exist yet because the chinks didn't even start building it.Nobody has any idea how loud chink subs are in relation to anything.
>>64628257China has build 3 generations of subs since then, boomer.>>64628301They expect me to shill in multiple threads in parallel if required. Basically the entire board is my shill responsibility when I'm on duty.The guy on night shift is really lazy, I always have to pick up slack from him.
>chink put spy sats at geo orbit Chink is fucking retarded lmao
>>64628317>what is synthetic aperture radarInb4 stealth carrier flight deck
>>64628305No one has any idea how zigger subs are built yet we know the Yasen class hovers around 95db. Stop acting like obfuscation works only for chinks.
>>64628330>Yasen class hovers around 95dbsource?
>>64628124Just found out that Rhodium got a piece featured on NYT as I was scrolling through my feed. Hot off the press. Really nice reading for Friday evening.https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/12/business/china-investment-economy.htmlSo basically they've actually admitted the picrel chart and are going to try and stop endless profitless manufacturing/infra growth to stop debt from piling up as they can't dump on markets anymore.Literally the only alternatives they have are 1) increasing consumer spending which has been an explicit goal since 2015 and has failed miserably since it requires the CCP to loosen control on the people 2) Try and pivot to a dual-track AI economy like the US but oops! The service sector suffers from Baumol’s Cost Disease as it's all domestic services.2026 will be a fun year. I hope Trump keeps the tariffs going, it's working beautifully.
>>64628282>I am not chinese.ok, chang
>>64628322Another victim that thinks that SAR has the resolution or readout speed to spot anything moving especially from geo orbit
>>64630742Civilian SAR is being used from satellites to map wave heights globally.That's how they found monster waves are real.You claim civilian SAR can give useful wave height data for decades, but chinese military SAR with GaN can't spot a CSG?You have any more bullshit you want to make up?
>>64631421Notice how I said geo orbit
>>64631421oh it can spot a CSG, it just can't give actionable data that can be used as part of a killchain, which is the reality that gives chinkshills all over the internet so much grief.the hypermeme missile cannot provide targeting data for itself because of the plasma sheath, and it also cannot recieve data from other places (including satellites, it only works with starship because of it's immense size and blunt profile).so yeah, you could guide a hypermeme onto a CSG until the plasma forms, and then the ships will just move out the way of your missile because it's fucking blind from there on out and can't guide onto anything.
>>64631459you keep spouting that same nonsense without understanding even basic physics.
I get the feeling the industrial base concern line is a polite way of saying that on paper Boeing’s offering blows Northrop’s out of the water to the point they can’t justify giving Northrop the contract, but they also don’t trust Boeing to execute both programs at once. Publicly available information paired with a couple credible rumors suggests Boeing beat Lockheed to a demonstrator flight by three years and still managed to deliver the more impressive plane, while Northrop doesn’t seem to have built an AII-X demonstrator, possibly being too busy with B-21 at the time.
>>64631756That would be at least a more hopeful reason for why it is going down like this. But then it's about Boeing supposedly BTFO everyone else.
