>give the italians a proper gun >suddenly they're not so shit anymore Wow! Mind blown!
>>64630030When exactly did the Italians stop being shit?
>>64630037exactly on september 23rd, 1943.
>>64630037Look up the Italian campaign and how costly It was onto the allies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Line
>>64630122>>64630201that was germans carrying the italians then tho
>>64630037Before Alamein the 132nd "Ariete" Armored Division performed solidly. At Alamein they were caught on the move and pretty savagely mauled then Rommel pretty much abandoned them and used them as a sacrificial goat so he could escape with his german divisions. He left them a quite backhanded compliment after fucking them over saying >in the Ariete we lost our oldest Italian comrades, from whom we had probably always demanded more than they, with their poor armament, had been capable of performingI honestly don't know why Rommel has the reputation he does. The more I look into him, the worse he gets. His North Africa was a series of reckless gambles. When he lucked out he won big, but when he wasn't lucky he lost devastatingly and wasted so many troops.
>>64630236None of what Rommel did should've been possible. Additionally the only alternative was to sit in Tunisia and wait for the inevitable allied attack once they attained complete superiority in men and material. Which is what happened anyway and would've probably happened even sooner than 43 without Germans going on the offensive.People like to shit on him while feeling enlightened but there was no strategic alternative to pursue.Also, he first made his name in France.
>>64630236>His North Africa was a series of reckless gamblesPlease explain, using science and logic, how the fuck he could possibly kept hold of North Africa? When defeat is inevitable, yolo is the only way forward.
>>64630330>>64630355A good general would have realized the situation was fucked and pulled his troops out.
>>64630371That was not his perogative. He was given command in north Africa (and not even fully) and told to keep the Italians from collapsing and the British out. He couldn't 'pull out'. The only alternative was to bunker down and play delaying actions. We can argue over if that would've been the smarter move but they'd lose eventually regardless.
>>64630371As a German, he was familiar with the idea of war being a continuation of politics.
His decision to head for Suez with the exhausted Afrika Korps after the capture of Tobruk was puzzling. Did he believe that the gamble of entering the Middle East was the only way to save Germany from ruin?
>>64630824The situation was untennable while at the same time the British were growing stronger by the day. There is really no way for Germany to win but, if you're going to try, you have to attack sooner rather than later. Tobruk wasn't a major port either and the Italians were struggling to supply the Afrika Korps as it was.Getting into the middle east might have gotten Turkey on side, while also denying the oil fields in Iraq&Iran to the British. Might even help destabilize India. Suze itself wasn't that important as most sea traffic was routed around the horn of Africa anyway.The best argument against Rommel is that he wasted resources and men, that could've been used elsewhere, trying to do the impossible.Should've just hunkered down and tried extracting a high cost for getting wiped out while minimizing his own.
>>64630371A good general would have taken Malta first.
>>64630037Every time they were comanded by non italians or on rare rare cases by competent italians, sadly the ladder One swiftly got punished for this unforgivable offence
>>64630957Rommel was not in control of the Mediterranian theater nor did he have the resources to invade it. The plan to invade Malta was never approved by the higher ups.
>>64630037The Italians have both vastly more causalities and vastly greater combat experience and inflicted more losses and both triumphs and disasters in war since 1870 than the USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeVWupFBkA8The USA is the great bullshit artist of military engagements. Late to both WW1 and WW2 with little combat exposure and ineffective without substantial European combat presenceThe only war the US engaged in was with near cavemen from Japan and it nearly lost that and even then it had Australian and British combat supporthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXf6btB_YIgThe Italians may have had humiliating defeats but there is nothing more present in the current world than American hollow boasting and self aggrandisement , very reminiscent of the Russians circa 2014. There is no stock of Irish, Italian and other European immigrants for the US to draft this time to carry the burden of the little combat exposure they had in WW1 and WW2, neither has the US distinguished itself militarily in the last 25 years. Laughing at Italy just shows how puffed up on Hollywood American dimwits have becomehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXf6btB_YIgI see a lot of the disastrous pathos of Mussolini's Italy in the US founded on Bush jnrs piss shallow lapel flag 'patriotism' as jingoism and magas cringe USA USA USA chanting.The US war of independence was a military nothing, 7000 casualties and the US civil war amateur hours clown antics The only American that was every worth a damn was Patton and you let the Russians murder him for embarrassing Stains pet Roosevelt, just like you let the Russians murder JFK and did nothing because the modern USA is a nation of cowards with a yellow streak and braggart jingo culture that is an even bigger pile of shit than anything Italy had to show under Mussolini.This will all make burgers seethe because it is true. Let the cheap vapid xenophobic spew of generation bush jnr (generation fail, not kill )commence
>>64630236>I honestly don't know why Rommel has the reputation he does. British doctrine and command was beyond a complete shitshow. When you look back on things there were several opportunities where the Brits could not only have beat the Afrika Korps but effectively kicked them out of North Africa in 1941. Even Rommel couldn't believe the bullshit he got away with and was questioning how the hell the Brits kept snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
>>64631231Holy mad
>>64631231I didn't know the Ghost of Mussolini visited this board?
>>64630201>>64630212The Italians had already switched sides by that point. Probably more useful being slave laborers than soldiers though
>>64631657https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnClrx8N2k
>>64631231you are a coping retard
>>64630236Rommel was only there because the Italians fucked up in the first place
>>64631720Coping with what exactly? Your weak attempt with engagement of the truth you obviously participated in creating?I'll be here long after the USA and you are forgotten but of all the squalid grunting of nations and people wrapped in their own deluded, ill founded jingoistic excrement current day America stands on the medallists podium.Congratulations' on your Presidents daily dose of greed and cowardice, a wonderful new accord and dropping of sanctions on Aleksandr Lukashenko, as you Americans like to say 'stunning and brave'.Truly worthy of Mussolini's Italy at it's most putrid."!Total Deaths: Around 53-58 Italian soldiers died in Afghanistan.Major Incidents: A 2009 suicide bombing in Kabul killed 6 soldiers, Italy's largest single loss, causing widespread grief and protests for withdrawal.Deployment: Italy had thousands of troops, primarily in the western Herat province and the capital, Kabul, as part of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). ""Italy suffered significant casualties in Iraq, with 36 soldiers killed during the mission, primarily due to the devastating 2003 Nasiriyah bombing, a suicide attack on their military police base that killed 17 Italians (mostly Carabinieri) and 2 civilians, marking Italy's worst military loss since WWII. Other losses included 18 Italians in a 2003 truck bombing and one secret agent killed by friendly fire in 2005, with troops withdrawing in 2006. "I wonder if the Italians you expect to come and help you the next time one of your presidents middle eastern friends blows up a skyscraper in New York are enjoying your dance on their dead?Or are you too busy tonguing the savoury backsides of Putin and his dear friend Aleksandr Lukashenko and taking advise from them on how best to display modern Americas yellow streak and worthlessness? USA! USA! USA!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEtLL_UUSPI
>>64631771Going on another unhinged rant isn't proving him wrong.
>>64631776I don't need to prove anything. The truth is self evident..
>Italians have a limited industrial base>fight war in industrial era>they suck>are given supplies from country with bigger industrial base>they don't suckWHOA.
>>64630030>>64630037Solid interwar armor, easily the best given the outcome of France. Actual peer navy. Midwar, the obsolescence made them British tier without comparable gibs from Berlin. >>64630236They all did. Rommel couldn't blow steam on his Austrian Painter patron, so the Italians overpromised and catastrophically underdelivered logistics got scapegoated on the Macaronis. They should've bet the farm taking Malta if they wanted it any other way. >>64630888>>64630824Imperil or take the Suez, and you have a major trade disrupter that makes the Jap stabs toward India make sense.
