The longest possible shot distance in your house or apartment is probably like 12 yards or something. It's more important to have a weapon you can take up a strategic hidden position with than one that maximizes your firepower on the target at normal home distances. With a rifle you will just be much more likely to bang it against things and make noise or have some kind of clumsy accident while sneaking around your house in the dark and won't really be any more effective against the intruder in reality. Moreover, your skills with your pistol are probably 10x better than your rifle, because that's your primary weapon everywhere outside your home and is probably what you do the most training with. An accurate and controllable full sized handgun, minimum 9mm, equipped with a red dot or some other low-light capable sight system is all that is needed for home defense for 99% of people.
rifles are easier to control, have more points of contact, and have superior terminal ballistics. For fringe situations they are also more accurate at range and easily pierce IIIA soft armor. Pistol calibers also go through more drywall and other mushy materials because they have more mass.
>>64631620In my experience rifles are quite a bit harder to control in close quarters.
In my home I can take up a strategic hidden position with my long gun without the need to go sneaking around. Despite practicing with my pistols more, the fundamental mechanics of rifle shooting mean I am much more accurate with it than I am with my handguns.Now what?
Well that might be why pistols are the most common home defense weapons lmao
>>64631705Unless your pistol skills are catastrophically bad, you are not more accurate with a rifle enough to make any difference inside your house.
>>64631600Pistols poke holes. They do not reliably stop humans outside very specific shot placements. Rifles stop people far more often and reliably. Even a 55g 22 bullet at 3000fps does massive damage at close range. Something like a 150g 308 in an 18" barrel is near 2800 fps. 270 Winchester is 130g 3000fps+ these are show stopping hits. 12 gage 00 buck is what 9 9mm pellets, all at once in a buch. That removes chunks of flesh. One ounce 12 gage slug? It's a freight train. Maneuvers, room, long shots? Stop it. You are not an ops team clearing room by room. You are a person someone is trying to victimize. Perhaps you are alone, Perhaps you have family in the house. Hopefully you have a plan. You are on home terf. Whatever you do you are not running down halls and stacking up. You take the weakest option to wait for the enemy. I'll take the one with the highest likelihood of a one shot kill.
>>64631766Modern 9mm+p hollow point ammunition marks the point of diminishing returns for small arms effectiveness on unarmored humans.
>>64631677You have no experience.
>>64631791No it doesn't. It is infinitely worse than even "weak" rifle calibers like 5.56, never mind a shotgun.+p also does nothing but increase risk of overpenetration.
>>64631801>>64631804I've killed deer with many rifle and handgun calibers, including 9mm. I've also watched hundreds of hours of shooting footage from law enforcement and other sources over many years. My conclusion is that, while rifle cartridges are certainly "better" than pistol cartridges generally, if 9mm isn't enough, then nothing will be.
>>64631822That's wrong though.I've shot people with rifles indoors. My M4 was not too large. I would never in 1000 years trade it for a handgun to do the same task.
>>64631804And then of course there are much better pistol cartridges. 10mm and 45ACP+p are good enough that terminal performance alone could not justify switching to a cumbersome long gun for use in small indoor spaces. 10mm can actually be better than .223 soft points in my experience.
>>64631828My experience is that there is an insurmountable void between pistol and rifle cartridges and I'd never choose a pistol cartridge when a rifle is an option.
>>64631827You could not do anything inside a typical American home with an M4 that I couldn't do just as easily with a Glock, except ruin your ears faster.
>>64631834A typical American home is much larger than an Iraqi apartment, and tinnitus isn't even that bad.
>>64631833If your only experience is with 9mm FMJ round nose in a military context, I could see why you'd think that.
>>64631851If your only experience is shooting things that don't shoot back, I can see why your choice of cartridge doesn't matter.
>>64631856You could shoot someone through non-essential soft tissue with .50BMG and they can keep shooting back at you if they're so inclined.
>>64631867They're gonna have a lot less soft tissue.
>>64631600Do you live in a little box with your cat?How quaint. Maybe Disney can make an animated film and have you escape from your squalor by becoming a princess.
>>64631867I dont think there's any part of a human body you could shoot with .50 and have them be in any state to fight
>>64631869Anyway, 10mm settles the argument for handgun terminal performance for retards who don't think 9mm is good enough. 10mm, loaded to it's original specifications and used with good hollowpoints, is a nigger-destroying machine and has actually become the most popular caliber for grizzly bear defense in the northwest. It can also easily defeat 3A armor with high velocity copper solids (9mm can do that too actually). Because 10mm exists, the only argument left for a rifle for home defense is that you don't think you can hit a guy at <12 yards with a pistol.
>>6463188710mm doesn't do anything 9mm can't already achieve except overpenetrate more lethally.
9x19 = 350 to 500 ft-lbf; 5.56x45 = 1300 ft-lbf. More energy more betterer.
obsessing over home defense is retarded.
>>64631890I agree. I think 9mm is plenty for any conceivable self-defense needs. 9mm +p+ 115 grain hollowpoints from Underwood or Buffalo Bore will splatter your organs like a watermelon on a guntube redneck ammo test video. But 10mm is useful for shutting up imbeciles who think "terminal performance" is still a thing that meaningfully separates pistols from rifles. 10mm is now popular for handgun hunting elk.
>>64631890>doesn't use Liberty Civil Defense/Overwatch, Norma NXD, or Underwood copper solids for HD in FULL FUCKING CENTIMETERngmi
>>646318929mm bullet is twice as big and doesn't need as much energy.
>>64631600>Moreover, your skills with your pistol are probably 10x better than your rifle,No. Your skills with the rifle are 10x better than with the pistol because the rifle is much easier to use.>>64631620>rifles are easier to control, have more points of contactThis. It's not about power, it's about making it easier to hit what you're aiming at.
>>64631918It's about power too.
>>64631915so why not throw a tennis ball at them? that's way bigger than any bullet, right?
>>64631922If you could throw a tennis ball hard enough to penetrate a human at all, it would be more effective than any small arms cartridge that currently exists.
12 yards is the longest distance in a straight line in your house? Sounds like you're poor.
>>64631932And that's with all the doors open.
>>64631791>>modern 9mm, blah blahA pistol bullet for the sake of a general conversation is only poking holes. 9mm no matter the extra velocity is not on par with the few outlier pistol cartridges that start to overcome the stretch threshold of various human tissues in a significant way.Pistol kills are (short of cns) no different than that of a knife, arrow, sharp stick. The wound volume and the amount of bleeding it causes plus the rate equate to fainting then death. 9mm total wound volume (permanent) is significantly less than .40, 45, 10mm, 357 magnum full loads full barrel, 44 mag and so on. Significantly. When it comes to bone, bad angles and reaching vitals through obstruction or limb again 9mm is lacking. When it comes to pistols you want a large total wound volume with an entrance and exit hole. That is how you stop someone quickly. When it comes to rifles vs pistols and stopping a human there is no comparison. A man may be shot in the torso with a 9mm multiple times and continue to fight. A man who takes a 130g 270 Winchester at 3000fps in the same placement can not physically continue on because the parts of his body needed to continue have been fucking obliterated. Not holes. Large tears. Gelatinous muscle tissues. Massive wound channel. Severe blood loss.
>>64631907>>splatterNo. They just poke holes. Human tissues do not splatter like gel. The stretch capacity of skin, intestine, organs is more than you can punch. They are more than Mike Tyson can punch. Tyson would have to punch your kidneys multiple times to start doing significant damage.
>>64631834If it actually was an m4 with a shorter barrel then absolutely he could lol. SBRs are the true best home defense weapon." The m4 is 14.5" barrel, ideally it would be closer to 10" for indoors, and not something loud as fuck like 5.56 coming out of that short barrel.
>>64631707I think that's more to do with people not hunting and normies not having a ton of space to keep their guns and Hollywood. handguns are generally cheaper than ARs
>>64631932>t. never owned a house
>>64631600>Moreover, your skills with your pistol are probably 10x better than your rifleNoguns detected. Nobody who has ever shot a handgun and a rifle would ever say something so dumb, the difference in controllability is absolutely enormous. Quickly shooting even a hand sized group at 10yd with a handgun is the product of a significant amount of practice. Shooting a hand sized group with a decent rifle at 100yd (ie, like 6-8moa) can be done by a rando day 1. Handguns make major sacrifices for concealability, which is fine, but concealment isn't important in your own house.If a civilian ever actually has to defend their home it will probably be the first time and the only time and the adrenaline will be running hard. A long gun will be a major extra edge, and an edge they might actually find useful in order to make up for being shakier everywhere else.
>>64631932OP is a faggot but you're a pathetic poser nohouse too lol.
>>64631600>t. The Founders had in mind home invaders only, not even barracked red coats diddling their daughters
I don't understand this "set up an ambush for home invaders" strategy. if I hear a window break there's a good chance it was just a tree branch or some kind of wild animal. I'm not going to call 911 while hiding under my bed with my gun pointed at the door, I'm going to turn the fucking house lights on and go see what it was. I'll take my gun because it might be a nigger, but it also could be a bear or a fucking stick.
>>64632860Most of the people who talk about things on this board are socially and mentally retarded. Totally inept people. Thank fuck "greyman" discourse died down finally so we don't have to hear morons blathering on about how dressing like a human being is a strategic concept, and theorycrafting how to cosplay as homo sapiens convincingly. You will see morons argue about flashlights that have clearly never once in their entire life been outside at night in a location that did not have abundant ambient lighting. But they will spend hours arguing about the merits of one light over another, despite not once ever in their existence going outside at night.This is more of that. They don't have to worry about the noise because their parents are going to check it.
>>64631600Fuck yamudda
