>they added half MOA adjustments to the A4/M4 carry handle for camp perry/KD qualificationsA2 sights and A4 carry handles both have the same zero clicks. it's like 1 3/8th inch or whatever fucking weirdo shit for the front sight and half MOA for the rear sight windage. On an M16A2/A3 the elevation drum on the rear sight is 1 click per MOA 300-800 meters and on the M16A4/M4 its 300-600 meters 1/2 moa per click. The Z for zeroing is present on both the A2/A3 and the detachable carry handle and it's for zeroing a 20 inch barrel and it's 1 moa off from 300 meters. So, 100% chance the reason they fucking did this is because the come up from 300 to 400 m is 3 moa, from 400-500m is 3.5 moa and then 500-600m is 4.5 moa. on an M4 it would be 300-400m is 3.5 moa 400-500m is 4.5 moa and 500-600m is 5.5 moa.half an MoA wouldn't matter in combat, assuming you even switched the drum so they were 100% doing it for their KD range shooting to make it easier to hit the bulls eye at certain ranges
yeah
>>64632320Most accuracy in combat doesn't matter pretty much sense the Napoleonic times volume of fire has been the deciding factor of who wins an engagement. Accuracy: particularly target/marksmanship qualification, really only matters in a select few instances. Range qual is mostly POG bragging rights and officer dick-measuring. I used to argue about this shit with people who have no idea what actual infantry work looks like all the time before Go-Pros but now I I don't bother and just have them watch a vid instead.
>>64632419Volume of accurate fire is what matters. Greater accuracy gives you more volume of fire on target. Things like marginally better iron sights don't meaningfully increase accuracy in combat, but there are other factors that can.
>>64632419yeah, there's no way anyone's actually adjusting rifle sights in combat, maybe the MGer or possibly a DMR but not the average grunt. Even when you look at something like an acog which allows for much more accurate fire the training doctrine is still put red on the target and fire which in theory could be as far as 7 maybe 9 inches off, though if they're within 225ish yards and you get the chevron instead of the 300 m part it shouldn't be worst than 2 or 3 inches
>>64632419>>accuracy in combat doesn't matter Operation baton Rouge, it sure as hell does matter. When you think it doesn't a couple assholes can keep you pinned down all dayThis entire thread is a retard level understanding of moa and the m16, a1, a2 and m4s accuracy and use. My head hurts.
>>64632419>Most accuracy in combat doesn't matter pretty much sense the Napoleonic times volume of fire has been the deciding factor of who wins an engagementGood thing US Army doctrine has decided to go against 200 years of observable reality.
>>64632593>Operation baton Rougeis that the headshot one with the acogs?
>>64632593>This entire thread is a retard level understanding of moa and the m16, a1, a2 and m4s accuracy and use. My head hurts.a half moa is 2.5 inches at 500 yards. so you're saying that the M16A2 was inferior to the A4 because someone shooting at 500 yards with the 500 yard setting would be off 2.5 inches, in combat. The M4 would be the same thing. it would be off 2 inches at 400 yards.Keep in mind also, these rifles have like retarded 1 3/8th moa elevation adjustments or something equally retarded via the front sight. like you're already possibly like half an MOA off just because the front sight is too coarse and they didn't bother fixing that
>>64632624>>z is for zeroNo, just no>>You would be offZero to 300 meters is the old army battlefield zero. You fire from 25 meters. Then you are set from 25-300 meters with zero adjustment. You are 6-8 inches high "in the middle" roughly. You aim dead center mass. You will hit everything. Over 300 adjust. You are shooting a rifle that makes groups 3 or 4 inches on centers at 100 yards out of the box. I wouldn't worry about the change from an 800meter apparatus to a 600 meter apparatus to give you finer adjustments. You wont be needing it. But if you do, it works well enough from my experience.
>>64632835>No, just no_2_ Turn the elevation knob two more clicks clockwise so the index line on the left side of the detachable carrying handle is aligned withthe "Z" on the elevation knob.https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog-ws/view/100.ATSC/8DA98D0B-8172-456C-851E-BF5CC7E4D4B8-1345122078664/report.pdfNote that the bullet impacts .33 inches low at 25M. This is why it;s necessary to raise the BDC to 8/3 plus one click during the zeroing process, and then return the BDC to 8/3 for qualification or battle https://www.scribd.com/document/50874069/M16-M4-datathe Z is for zero because on a 20 inch gun the actual zero isn't 25m/300m. it's like 1 MOA off so you switch to the Z which is +1 moa to zero it, it's just not a big enough issue at 25M to care about because it's less than an inch when you're that close>Over 300 adjust. no one actually does that on a rifle outside of a KD range> I wouldn't worry about the change from an 800meter apparatus to a 600 meter apparatus to give you finer adjustments.the half MOA clicks have nothing to do with the A4 being 3/6 instead of 3/8. They changed it to 3/6 because the rail and attachment mechanism get in the way and make the screw bottom out earlier. you could replace the drum on an A2 with a half or quarter click drum and you wouldn't lose any adjustment, it would still go to 800M
>>64632871You zero an m4 on the 6/3 setting...
>>64632871Unfuck yourself
>>64634110>>64634123the z setting is for the A4 you fucking retarded no gunz 70 IQ tranny. even your pics say it, you fucking retard. That's why it says to click 1 click down on the A2 and 2 clicks down on the A4. holy shit you're illiterate
What gets me about the A2 rearsight system is the assumption that any soldier is going to be adjusting his irons in combat.
>>64632462>there's no way anyone's actually adjusting rifle sights in combat, maybe the MGer You're not gonna believe this but the A2's rear sight was literally stolen from a storage room at Colt by a visiting Jarhead that was part of the A2 design team. And that sight was for an LMG Colt was working on. Pure coincidence though I'm sure!
>>64634467And the a2 and a4 have what length barrels...In not going to drag you through your own retardism kicking and screaming.
>>64632419>Range qual is mostly POG bragging rights and officer dick-measuringThat's what the "Skilcraft Sharpshooter" is for, and how a lot of O-grades and POGgies get their scores up.
>>64634588you don't know how to read, you're gay and retarded. A2s and A4s were mentioned in the OP, you shit for brains no guns, illiterate retard
>>64634613Considering I own all three, have used two in the military, own the targets and have been zeroing them for years, I'll take your weird "no gunz" sperms out to mean you realized now your most obvious fuck up. Perhaps someday you can own them as well instead of just reading about them.
>>64634613Post m4, a2 or a4.
>>64634635Not an unreasonable request.
>>64634622>>64634635>>64634651I have an A2 and a 16 inch. My 16 inch came with one of those carry handles and has the Z on it. go read the manuals, it's for zeroing the A4 and the A2 procedures also tell you to go up a click from the 3/8 setting. you're just mad because you're from some third world country and you've never seen or used a gun irl and you don't know how to readpage 2-6 literally says to use the Z to zero for the A4https://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd-us-archive/FM3-22.9%2803%29.pdfand you've obviously samefagging
>>64634658I assure you, I am not the anon you think I am.And again, "Post Gunz" in /k/ is not an unreasonable request, when one is claiming some sort of expertise regarding them.
>>64634658One click a2, two clicks a4, 6/3 m4 or your imaginary 16"Those pictures above are the targets and procedures used by the us army with the carry handle. They are issue targets, that's how it's done. I've been to a third world country, but alas much to your dismay I'm An American.Post a2 and legal m4 clone (16 inch) now that you have tried to avoid admitting you are wrong.
>>64634668you're samefagging. the z thing for zeroing the A4 is literally in the manual>>646346782 clicks up on an A4 is the Z setting. have you never seen a carry handle, nonAmerican samefag troon?
>>64634684I've seen a few. Nobody is samefagging, and you are really backtracking to one thing and avoiding all the wrong you are.Post m4, a2 or fuck right the fuck off faggot.
>>64634684Again, I've made three posts here (four counting this one)>>64634651,>>64634610,>>64634668 and this one.Not sure how you think I or anyone else is samefagging, just because you're angered by someone disagreeing with you.I, am not disagreeing with anyone, just saying you really should post the arms you claim you own and have some sort of expertise with.
>>64634700>no timestampyou can literally see the Z 2 clicks up from the 6/3 setting you gay retard>>64634705sure thing samefaggot.
>>64634730You are very angry, take a breath and try to comprehend there are more than you and the other anon in this thread.And again, it would likely improve your argument if you would simply post a dated image of what you claim you own.
>>64634751you're going to act like a samefagging retard either way. Also the setting shows up in the manual and in the pics you yourself posed of the targets. you're just an illiterate retard
>>64634794I listed where I posted, I did not post any images of targets. You are confusing me with another poster.Again, you are thinking there are only two people in this thread right now, instead of three, one that you're having a 'discussion' with, and myself, who you think is the first poster sockpuppeting. I'm simply, and through the course of your tirades, politely letting you know that you might stand a better chance of making your point if you simply "post guns".It's not a difficult nor unusual request, and is a very long time /k/ tradition, simply post a dated image of the arms you're speaking of.
>>64634730You think you are correct but you have missed a step using the z setting (on only one of the three rifles mentioned here) that makes the entire z setting completely irrelevant and therefore nobody fucking uses it. Ever. Of course there is the fact all your little theories including moa theories go out the windows as you can see the difference in adjustments on the targets yourself. Like all those who get their information second hand you are clueless. Post fucking m4, ar or even your 10 pump ar bb gun at the point you fucking spaz
>>64634678>two clicks a4yeah, two clicks up on a detachable carry handle is the z setting. I'm not going to go back and read everything he said, but he is right about that.
>>64634831not reading all that, samefaggot>>64634867are you fucking ESL, samefaggot?> but you have missed a step using the z setting (on only one of the three rifles mentioned here) the Z setting is 2 clicks or 1 moa up on the detachable carry handle and is used to zero the A4. The A2 has you click 1 click up, which is also 1 moa, but I don't think it's labeled. My A2 is in clicks not distance. the only time you don't use the Z for zeroing is on the M4.you're a retarded tranny
>>64634958Post gunz or walk faggot
>>64634958>not reading all that, samefaggotWell, you enjoy whatever fugue state you have worked yourself into.I'm out.
>>64634972>>64634989>no I'm not samefagging>I just post all my posts one right after the other like 2 mins appartsure thing, illiterate samefaggot retard. you're probably the retard in the /pol/ thread who doesn't know how red dots work
>>64635068Nogunz moron
>>64635786very easy to fake, troon
>>64635848Being wrong. Seems to be a constant for you.
>>64635888you got proven to be gay, retarded and a samefaggot
I just read this retarded thread and imo it stands at post guns.>Anon claimed he owned 3 specific rifles during debate>Gets called to post>Doesn't post>Anon is faggot
>>64636600nice samefaggot, troon
>All this squabbling about A2/A4/M4 rearsight settings>The humble "zero at 25 and forget about it" A1
>>64636686>only useful for concripts to waste 250,000 rounds for one casualty Ooooooooooof
