How would an european army look like? Which weapons, vehicles, gear and doctrine would they use? And how would their logistic chain and administration work?
It would just be a copy of NATO/thread
>>64639133It would be an extension of America's
>>64639133NATO standard everything.Foods would have to be either varied or standardized slop, since trying to get Germans to eat French food is impossible and vice versa.Would also have to be volunteer only, and only the goyest of goyim could be let in. Conscription would go sideways in the blink of an eye since no one wants to fight a war, no one wants to fight a globohomo war, and sure as fuck no one wants to fight a globohomo war alongside the fucking Germans/Swedes/French/Gypsies/[insert subhuman here].
>>64639133It wouldn't it's a larp
MulticamHK416/thread
>>64639133>standard firearmHK416Glock>MBTLeo8>Fighter planeRafale and eurofighter until some 5th gen can be scraped together
>>64639133Probably underfunded, confused and poorly run and incapable of meaningful action -like myself
>Steyr AUG - assault rifle>Beretta 92 - sidearm>PMG Hecaté - AT rifle>FN P90 - SMG>Benelli M4- shotgun>Panzerfaust 3 - anti tank rocket launcher>KM2000 - combat knife
>>64639133Austro-Hungarian Army but with modern equipment, pretty much.
>>64639133A bunch of high school girls endlessly bickering and backstabbing each other.
>>64639875but enough about american procurement..
Ideally, it would have nationally (or even more local) recruited units for cohesion and stuff. Equipment would be a wild mix of designs, but built in different places each (with shared IP). Language would be english, but colloquially local languages.Armies would be organized as a kind of national guards, with command usually resting with national leaders and only going to the europe level political body in case of war.
>>64639900>each nation keeps own army until a continental threat forces them to unifyliterally how fiefdoms worked in feudal societies.
I might as well ask here butI'm working on a video game that's heavily inspired by Battlefield. There will be different factions and classes. Each faction needs to feel distinct. So for example the "EU Faction" needs to feel European instead of NATO.To make the EU Faction feel EU, each class is from a different country>Assault: UK>Engineer: Italian>Support: German>Recon: FrenchAnyways this is what I have so far for the EU Assault weapons:L85A2 (default starting weapon)AUGA3F2000G3A3Recon weapons:MSG90 (default starting weapon)HK17FRF2FAMASMind you its a video game so there's going to be some creative liberty. I wanted to give EU Assault all bullpup rifles to give their faction a distinct look and feel. Since EU Assault is UK soldier it made sense for the L85A2 to be the main rifle.>inb4 UK isnt part of EUI know, but in my game they are
>>64639920The german empire worked in a similar way and it didn't harm combat efficiency.
>>64639922I cannot decide what country EU Engineer should be. I was stuck between Italy, Sweden and Poland but I went with Italy. The idea being that Engineers main weapon besides rocket launcher is SMG.Engineer weapons:MX4 PMXMP7P90 or CBJMSPanzerfaust 3Alcotan 100 NLAWAs for camo, EU soldier would use the Camo the French currently use. Again, I want every faction to feel and look different. I dont want everyone to be wearing multicam. What do you guys think so far?
>>64639133Like shit. European countries can individually produce good things, but when combined their burecrats become toxic to an extent that even drunk, bitter women cannot match.
>>64639953>I want every faction to feel and look differentthen use fleck or vegato for something visually distinct
>>64639133They'd be exact copy of whoever is the dominant force in EU at that time - probably Germany - and absolutely fucking ignored by everyone else.That or the EU Battlegroup which is a real thing that has been "happening" for like 20 years now and is just two countries providing a battalion each for 6 months before other two countries take over. It even worse than it sounds like and they've never done anything with it because it'd be a PR suicide since it wouldn't work, they just exist on paper.
>>64639133>How would an European army look like?Automated production lines out of Germany and BelgiumSAS/KSK/Royal Marines/French Marines/Chasseur Alpine/Panzer Regiments/Huzzar Regiments/FFL etc etcAutonomous networked fire supportMBTs as forward command posts and light artillery with drone spottersA return to chemical warfare and minesLoitering munitionsSea drones surface and submersibleSubmersible drone carriersSAAB/Rheinmetal/Airbus/Steyr/H&K/Glock/CZ/Lapua/RWS/S&B/Eley/British Aerospace/European Space Agency/FN/Thales, Safran, Dassault Aviation, Naval Group, MBDA, and KNDS, Hensoldt, Leonardo Roughly 3 million full strength and 3 million reserves, 12 carriers, 1200 nuclear warheads, circa 7000 combat aircraft equivalentsInternment and interrogation centresDedicated frontier forceDedicated intelligence serviceHas to abe able to hold back the USA or China.
>>64640626>Has to abe able to hold back the USAThe USA would be a critical part of their military idiot
>>64639891really weird whataboutism when france just stabbed germany in the back over FCAS
>>64640630The USA is no longer considered friendly by most Europeans after Trump and Ukraine, I'm just stating facts. The US is considered to be hostile to Europe and intent on interfering in European democratic processes following the publication fo the US Nation Security Policy. This is just the new reality. It's very sad and I have many old American friends who like me stood against communism but it is what it isIf you want to rage about that I understand but yes, part of the point of European rearmament is now to be in a position to tell the US or Russia or China to fuck off and mind their own businessThe old axion, lead follow or get out of the fucking way
>>64639133>logistic chainmillions of hours spent secretly training in factorio, euro truck simulator, forklift simulator and majster symulator will finally be unleashed
>>64640653There's no way a Europe without the USA is evere going to unite. The US is the only focal point for Europe to be united around so if there's going to be a united European military its central pillar will be the US military.
>>64640657Europe is united. Wake up and smell the reality.
>>64640660>Europe is unitedEurope cares to differ.
>>64640660No it's not, not even close
>>64640640it's really not unexpected, it's the same thing France did the last two or three times.Also, Germany can just buy the other next gen fighter, and focus on building more and better space launch capabilities and logistics.Let the frogs build their carrier plane, gently bend them over a barrel when it comes to land systems and everyone will be happy.
>>64640665A hostile Russia and an impotent US sounds like a good reason to stop being raging faggots. Looking at you, hungary and slovakia.
>>64640664>>64640665If you think /pol/ is reality. Meanwhile the vast majority of European 100% support EU membership, have free movement and a customs free trade union with standard regulations and an ELECTED European parliament.
>>64640672And no military, can't agree what to do with frozen Belgian Russian funds, somehow have managed to only send slightly more aid to Ukraine than the USA despite having almost the population, are seeing a rise of far-right governments, and are dealing with countries within the EU blocking measures.
>>64640683>almost the population*almost double
>>64639143This, but with more drones, air ground and sea. Our space capability is also poor compared to USA, and even China.Sincerely, a finn. Also we have no native stealth fighters, which is going make our conventional airforce incapable of capturing airspace, just like Ukraine nor Russia have during the Ukraine war. We need to work with that, or whatever consitutes as we in the near future, given that current EU is probably not going to exist and has to be reformed, which I believe going to require dissolution in order to reform.I see a possibility, that if there is an EU dissoultion, some EU countries will form their own US friendly block and is going to buy mostly US made equipment for a long time.
>>64640714NTA, but space launch and air assets are being developed be European companies.It'S not LockMart and SpaceX, but it'S actual private industry unlike what China is doing. Should EU and national money be used to invest in these companies? Yes. But we've spent thirty years snoozing, it wil take another few years.the ammunition and drone production show that we can get shit done. Which surprised a lot of people, but here we are.
>>64640683Europe has already massive military capability. Europe is substantially less divided than the current day USA in my opinion but I'm sure your view will differ.
>>64640757>Europe has already massive military capability.If that were true they wouldn't have military aid to Ukraine on par with a single country that has half their population. Unless of course Europe just doesn't care about Ukraine and is willing to leave their own to fend for themselves.
>>64640670I agree, ziggers and the unreliable nature of the USA should unite Europe>>64640672Gynocentric eurocrats are united by liberalism not a united idea of race and volk, against a communist zigger horde. It only works when they're far right and want Europe to be White and don't import browns
>>64640764I'm sorry, I don't engage further with people who are dishonest. As Europe is facing an openly hostile and belligerent Russia and further is under NATO requirements in many nations to have provision primarily for standing forces your point is utterly empty, Europe has provided massive support to Ukraine and will continue to, pic related. It's worth noting that Ukraine will also be part of any future EU military structure and will be an EU member and deserves to be. Nonsense like you and Trumps friendship with Putin, 'jokes' about annexing Greenland, deliberately insulting speeches from Vance and Hefseth to appeal to American jingoists and Fox news viewers, threats to interfere in European democratic processes declared in the National Security Policy document, appeasement of the dictatorship in Belarus, threats of a tariff war against the USs biggest lenders while they are supporting Ukraine is why Europe is turning away from the US and rearming, now not just to ensure Russia is no longer a threat but to also counter the new US threat.It's amazing that Americans have no understanding of the delivered insult walking over the dead of European servicemen who died and were maimed for American misadventures in Afghanistan and Iraq,Did you know the Ukrainians deployed to Iraq in support of the US? That disgraceful scene in the oval office with Vance ranting at the war leader of a free democratic nation to appease a Russian dictator? Have you unplugged form the reality of what a unending series of disasters for international relations the US has been for the last year?
>>64640771There is nothing wrong with Classical Liberal government. The entire US, TK and European democracies are founded on its idea. The fact that the US polspeak equates the word liberal incorrectly with socialist is a symptom of how brain damaged the US has become. Freedom of \Speech itself is a classical liberal doctrine.
>>64640771>Gynocentric eurocratsYou are actually an idiot What a surprise.
>>64640815>Europe has provided massive support to Ukraine and will continue toAbout half as much per person as the USA, your picture accounts for financial aid which isn't what Ukraine needs, in terms of military aid Europe has only given slightly more than the US.Sadly, we tried to get Europe to be cooperative. We warned them that Russia was dangerous, that they should disconnect themselves from Russian oil and spend more on their military, but they spat in our faces, told us they preferred Russia to America. So naturally America took this betrayal for what it was and left Europe be as they asked for.
>>64640840>About half as much per person as the USAYou are just a liar only here to do as all you kind have been doing since George Bush junior damaged your brain with lapel pin jingoism and you doubled down on retarded with magahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCfPXKt_VIAThe US is in deep shit because of morons like you.
>>64640856You are once again posting the same image of financial aid. Ukraine needs military aid and Europe has abandoned them in their moment of need. It once again fell to the US to pick up Europe's slack.
>>64640867yeahMoney buys weapons you knowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew_pjKH4vqg
>>64640874Ukraine has functionally infinite money for the buying of weapons, they didn't need Europe's help, what they did need were actual weapons, which Europe has proven very reluctant to provide in significant quantities.
>>64640874Vance literally citing Russian propaganda at Zelensky. Zelensky is quite right about what the US will feel as a result of the disaster in the whitehouse.
>>64640887I'm not engaging with you farther because you are a liar. Neither Ukraine or Europe needs 'allies' (or debtors) like JD Vance,
>>64640899See this is why Europe can't form a meaningful union. You help them out and they spit in your face and call you a traitor. You given them hundreds of billions of dollars in aid and they hate you MORE for it.
>no unified command and control structure>no unified military planning >no unified military production, procurement and investment >no interoperability between a zoo of various weapon systems and tech platforms>capability gaps and disparate equipment across different units since most member states need their military developed from ground up>poor coordination due to language barriers>poor coordination due to regional and intergovernmental jurisdiction issues>poor coordination due to diverging national interests>logistical clustefuck on a continental scale>ursula von der leyen as a commander in chiefthis will be a smashing success. like austria-hungary!
>>64640901Bye now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out of superpower status. Best of luck with China and your borrowing needs and all that. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FDHBFIN
>>64640908Right, cause Europe was DEFINITELY gonna help Taiwan after they left Ukraine out to dry, lmao get real.
>>64640901This is why the US had made a terminal mistake in its relations with the EUhttps://ticdata.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/slt_table5.html
>>64639153>Foods would have to be either varied or standardized slop, since trying to get Germans to eat French food is impossible and vice versa.LMAO. Like half the stuff in either's rations is perfectly interchangeable anyway.>muh globohomoOpinion discarded.
>>64639920Not really. We'd still be looking at largely unified doctrine, training and equipment standards. Likely completely unified curricula for officer training at a minimum.
>>64640916The greatest mistake Europe and UK made was having their citizens die in Iraq and Afghanistan for a worthless ally.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwFQEO4D9VYhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
>>64639133It'd be a shitshow unless the national militaries could exist parallel to or even above the EU military. Either they'd be neutered to the point of being glorified blue helmets, or they'd be drawn and quartered doctrinally as France, Germany, Italy, and Poland all tug in different ways where the EU military ought to be geared for. Good luck convincing Poles to go to Africa because France wants to LARP as a colonial power again or Germany to deploy a majority of its naval assets to the Mediterranean as its been decided by Italy, Spain, and Greece to be the area of greatest importance
>>64640937>Europoor already declaring their intention to lie down and surrender to authoritarian nationslmao it's pathetic
>ITT Dumb retards simultaneously massively over and underestimate how well euros really get along>with special guest star, Euros thinking they're gonna finally invest in their military this time
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JpUIPj4JXOwhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_WarAmerica is done.
>>64640657>The US is the only focal point for Europe to be united aroundRight now? Only in the sense of being a unifying threat that has to be deterred. And Russia is filling that role already, so the US also getting in on it is somewhat redundant.
>>64640956And America repaid Ukraine's help a million times over with the aid they provided.
>>64640959>And Russia is filling that role alreadyLmao, we have Euros in this thread who see Russia as a friend
>>64640956Damn everyone showed up didn't they? Fucking soviets were apparently with us for round 1 too. Sadam really did just manage to piss in everyone's cheerios, that or they saw us gearing up to kick ass and wanted front row seats
>>64640947They were your skyscrapers. You deal with your own problems alone from now on, just as Europe must. An ally without honour is worthless.
>>64640683>somehow have managed to only send slightly more aid to Ukraine than the USARetard detected, opinion discarded.
>>64640962Okay, and? There's Americans who see China as a friend. They're about as actually relevant.
>>64640964And THAT'S your logic for abandoning Ukraine? "It's their problem, not ours". Wow, Europe sounds REALLY united.
>>64640916Left them out to dry to the tune of enabling them to kill over a million ziggers (and counting) by proxy, you mean?>>64640947Yeah, your delusions truly are.>>64640973Projecting much? The only ones trying to abandon Ukraine are the yanks.
>>64640967>after the US stopped spending aid we've sent more aid
>>64640967What you posted literally proves me right lmao. America is providing about the same military aid as Europe...but Europe has nearly twice the population so they should be providing double the aid.
>>64640985>The only ones trying to abandon Ukraine are the yanks.The US provided way more military aid per person than Europe. This was Europe's betrayal, not America's.
>>64640985>The only ones trying to abandon Ukraine are the yanks.Ending the war, even along the current terms, is hardly "abandoooning". Holy shit Ukraine gets the right to a 600,000 man standing army and $300BN in seized Russian assets will be paid over to them as war reparations. Thats a fucking good deal. Only hard part is where the border will be. Look nigga lets be real. Russia lost this war more than three years ago (how time flies) when the failed to (1) seize Ukraine and (2) turn it into a rump state. All they have done is seize some clay in the Donbas. Total loss. However, Ukraine does not have the strength, and will never have the strength, to retake that seized land. Common sense is to just call it a day for everyone involved and pretend this absolute catastrophe never happened.
>>64640993The fucking delusions you people have.Euros aren't the ones negotiating business deals on the side while adopting every fucking zigger talking point verbatim. Euros aren't the ones pretending everything will be normal and peace will be eternal forever if we just give the mass murdering tyrant what he wants. Euros aren't using the exact same fucking language about a "reset" with Russia that Obama used to everyone's eternal regret.All America. All orange Caligula. All you. You saw a fight more dangerous than gunning down ragheads and smuggling boats and ran for it like weak a bunch of weak fucking sisters. Own it.
>>64641000>However, Ukraine does not have the strength, and will never have the strength, to retake that seized land.They would if Europe had the balls to commit their own forces to the fight.
>>64641001>Euros aren't the ones negotiating business deals on the side Except for all that Russian oil they're buying through India, and all the oil they bought beforehand giving Russia the funds to build up their military. Europe has been betraying Ukraine for decades.
>>64641004If I just won the lottery I would finally bed Ana de Armas.
>>64641004Good luck convincing Pierre on the street to die in Ukraine. It's already hard enough to get them to fork over tax dollars and their leftover equipment, actually mobilizing forces for a war that doesn't directly threaten their nation is a surefire way to get impeached or whatever the Euro equivalent is. Not even Poland, who I thought was cool and would do such a thing, has so much as shot down any and all Russian warplanes that violate their airspace
>>64641001>The fucking delusions you people have.Anon, take a breath and stop shadowboxing a strawman you built out of MSNBC chyrons and Twitter rage.>Euros aren't the ones negotiating business deals on the sideYes they are. Germany bought Russian gas during the war, France kept channels open, Italy hedged, Hungary openly defected, and half of Brussels is still praying Nord Stream comes back. This “pure Euro moral front” exists only in your head.>Euros aren't the ones pretending everything will be normal if we give Russia what it wantsThey literally are. The EU position since 2014 has been “freeze the conflict, normalize trade, hope Russia behaves.” Minsk I, Minsk II, Normandy Format — ring any bells? America didn’t invent appeasement here; Europe industrialized it.>Euros aren't using the same language about a "reset"They don’t call it a “reset,” they call it strategic autonomy, dialogue, and de-escalation. Same shit, better PR. You think it’s different because it comes with a French accent and a white paper.>All America. All orange Caligula.This is where your brain melts. Trump didn’t invade Ukraine. Obama didn’t stop Crimea. Biden didn’t deter 2022. Structural decline and 30 years of free-riding don’t vanish because your team wins an election.>You saw a fight more dangerous than gunning down insurgents and ranNo — America showed up with money, weapons, intel, satellites, logistics, and training while Europe struggled to find artillery shells. The US didn’t “run,” it carried NATO again, like it has since 1949.>Own itFine. Here’s the truth: (1) Europe outsourced hard power, (2) America got tired of being the adultIf you want to scream betrayal, aim it at the continent that can’t defend itself without a US credit card and logistics chain.Cope harder.
>>64640660>Europe is united.Yeah, as long as there are US bases in Germany and Italy. Europe has been disunited for a couple millennia before the Americans came in, what exactly do you expect will happen after they're gone?
>>64640973The only elected leader to have publicly stabbed Ukraine in the back is the US President. Look the fact is that the transatlantic alliance is dead. Putin on, he has ended NATO effectively via Trump and ended the era of the US as a real superpower and JD Vance, Trump and Hegseth handed him that on a platehttps://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2025-National-Security-Strategy.pdf" America encourages its political allies in Europe to promote this revival of spirit, and the growing influence of patriotic European parties indeed gives cause for great optimism."Promotion of Moscow quislings i Europe by US national policy.Ok then."And they asked the head of the prime minister of Hungary, very tough man, strong man, somebody that I always got along… I get along with the strong ones. I don’t get along with the weak ones. Isn’t that sad? That’s a personality defect. The tough ones, but the tough ones are the ones we have to worry about, that’s a good thing."But Viktor Orbán. Viktor Orbán of Hungary. So they asked him, “What do we do? Wars are breaking out all over the world.” He said, the answer is very simple. Make sure that Trump gets reelected president and you’re not going to have any more wars. You’re not going to have any more problems. They respected him. They respected Trump. They respected Trump. He actually used a different word. I would not use that word, but he can. He said they were afraid of Trump because they had no idea where the hell I was coming from. With Joe, it’s sort of easy to tell, isn’t it? The whole thing is crazy. You know what we’re going through? It’s crazy. They arrest their political opponent. They go after their political… The whole place is, our country, is like a different place. No more wars, no more disruptions. We will have prosperity and we will have peace. "https://www.rev.com/transcripts/trump-rally-in-north-carolinaYeah
>>64641052Okay, vatnik
>>64641001>The fucking delusions you people have.>Euros aren't the ones negotiating business deals on the side while adopting every fucking zigger talking point verbatim. Euros aren't the ones pretending everything will be normal and peace will be eternal forever if we just give the mass murdering tyrant what he wants. Euros aren't using the exact same fucking language about a "reset" with Russia that Obama used to everyone's eternal regret.>All America. All orange Caligula. All you. You saw a fight more dangerous than gunning down ragheads and smuggling boats and ran for it like weak a bunch of weak fucking sisters. Own it.truthpill
>>64641010>all that Russian oil they're buyingHave you even read the points these two >>64641001 heroes of the Soviet Union are pushing? One is the reconstruction of oil pipelines to Europe, to be paid for with seized Russian funds. Your boss isn't isolating Russia, he has no intention of doing so. He will embrace Russia for a big enough bribe because Putin figured out decades ago that bribing rich old fucks in the west will allow him to get anything he wants.
>>64641052>The only elected leader to have publicly stabbed Ukraine in the back is the US PresidentBy providing them substantially more aid than Europe relative to its population even while Europe was supporting Russia?
>>64641060That's trump speaking in that text I understand why you think it may be a vatnik though
>>64641073>By providing them substantially more aid than Europe relative to its populationliar
>>64640906>this will be a smashing success. like austria-hungary!Diversity is our strength after all. Not like anyone bothers to learn from the past when the timer didn't start ticking down until 1939.
>>64641073Not just that but the US put an inflated brand new sticker price on every used piece of kit they sent
>>64641087You're once again posting the version with the useless financial aid included
>>64641074Your misrepresentation of the text makes you a vatnik.
The primary use of the proposed 'European Army' is to make it impossible for any member states to leave the Union.
>>64641088>Not like anyone bothers to learn from the past when the timer didn't start ticking down until 1939.you mean the last time when a german chancellor tried to build a united europe, yeah that worked out great in the end.
>>64639133Nobody in Europe with a decent arms industry is just gonna give it up. Don't expect France to copy others, And we're definitely never copying the French. All I know for sure is that any unified european army is gonna expect Poland to catch bullets for them. Other than that they'd just NATO through it without American weapons and it's not like we actually need them. If some asshole needs an m4 they can just buy the c7 off of Canada or smth.
>>64639922Recon should be Ukraine>but they're not part of the EUYeah and so is the UK but (You) and I aren't gonna bitch about that.
>>64641140Thanks for your responseAnd no, Recon is 100% going to be French. My reasoning being that Recon is supposed to be Sniper/Special Forces mix. Majority of weapons EU Recon is using are French (FRF2, Hecate II, FAMAS). If you decide to do Special Forces, the carbine recon uses is FAMAS which is French. They also have the recon look with the green beret. Every faction will have a 50 cal sniper but for balance purposes I'm trying to make it bolt action 50 cal. So US get M95 and EU gets Hecate II.
>>64641176Shit, I meant to say that Ukraine should be Engineer, not Recon!
>>64639922>Italians>Engineering anything>Germans>Supporting anyone
>>64641043Mutual defence clause (Article 42.7 TEU)If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation.
>>64639133it would look like nothing because it's not happening. not in the next 100 years until all globalists are removed and Russia is integrated into Europe proper
>>64641104Paying the army's wages and people's pensions so they don't starve is useless?
>>64641728Ukraine doesn't have money problems, it can just go into debt, in a war economy it's not gonna be a problem.
>>64639133I dont know,all i know is they will be speaking either arabic in the west ore Russian în the east most likely.
>>64639153>globohomoImagine having your mind rotted by russian propaganda on /pol/ this badly.
