If you were tasked with designing a military transport plane, how would you prevent this from happening?
how is this even possible? Was there an explosion?
>>64639759No design can help lack of maintenance./thread
>>64639768Fatigue, the ground crew was fatigued.
>>64639769Can't do maintenance if no craft to do maintenance! So best solution not make craft or lose craft through accident!
>>64639768Metal fatigue is a factor, but it's even worse than that: the aluminum alloys that aircraft are built from have a shelf life. The alloy gets weaker over time, and at some point needs to be retired from service. Competent aircraft operators will pull airframes from service before they get that old. Desperate cost-cutters will keep airframes flying long after they should have been scrapped.
>>64639759Are those zegroids spilling out of the guts?
Create it out of sturdy materials. Cardboard is out, for example
>>64639759Huh... what a RIVETING image...
>>64639759That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point
>>64639759>Comrade, let us test if this plane can come back into service.>-ACK
>>64639759Conversion to tilt rotor: Grand success.>how would you prevent this from happening?Maintenance.
>>64639768It was on a test flight after being repaired.The repair group is bankrupt and nobody has been paid in months.Probably didn't inspect it properly after whatever accident it suffered that required repairs. So either a structural fault was missed or dismissed as too expensive to repair
>>64639759This photo is AI "enhanced" this is the real image lol. Not that it makes a difference for vatniks, their maintenance and equipment is still shit.
lol, obvious fake image from desperate hoholsFACT: the plane landed on its own power
>>64639827>>64639852I don't see the problem. It was a test flight for repairs, and they successfully discovered it had not been sufficiently repaired.
>>64639759Develop countermeasures for big guys
>>64639879lol
>>64639873It was also full of holhol POWS. The plane was on it's way to be scrapped anyway. We actually did this on purpose since we didn't need it anway. xaxaxaxa ))
Did the crew survive?
>>64639871this is the actual plane that broke up, RF-09309, it has different paint than the OP so yes you are correct
>>64639759Fake AI imageInstead, here, have a kilo class sub exploding https://fxtwitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/2000584378733207934
>>64639799What about paper?
>>64640182reportedly they all died
>>64640188very ugly plane, I don't likegood it's destroyed now
>>64639759I'd design it so the back won't fall off.
>>64640382Good. TZD.
>>64640182
>>64640374No, no paper. Probably no cellotape or rubber, either.
>>64639821But it is an excellent photo for the CIA operative who hacksawed the frame!
>>64639794It's not age. Fatigue limit is how much you can bend a metal with no permanent damage. Steel has a fatigue limit. Aluminum does not. Any flexing causes permanent damage. Try not to think about it when you're flying.
>>64639759YEBAT!
>>64640655I wasn't talking about fatigue alone, which is why I mentioned it first. I'm talking about how aluminum alloys are strengthened by a process called precipitation hardening, and materials produced with that process follow a bit of a curve. At first the parts get stronger as they age--we usually accelerate this process on purpose, called "solution heat treating". But then the parts slowly get weaker over time. This has nothing to do with fatigue, even if the parts saw zero stress they would still slowly get weaker as the precipitates grow in size.
>>64639759Maintenance, not skimping on materials, proper material research, proper aerodynamical research for stress points etc
Picture of the claimed saboteur has been released by the Russian defense ministry.Also the new captcha is dogshit. What the fuck.
https://youtu.be/Ihm6AtJyVjI
>>64639759I'm not an expert but I would probably make it so that the front can't fall off.
>>64639873Unironically exactly the shit that Armchair Warlord has been posting for awhile now. Five days ago he said that all AFU videos are fakes, manipulated or old. Then the submarine incident happened and he disables comments and posts he is 'going to bed'.
>>64639759Simply don’t get sanctioned
>>64639759I´d design the seats so that you couldnt bring any Big Guys onboard
>>64642691
>>64639759It was the last operational An-22 in the world - the biggest turboprop ever built.Built in the Ukrainian SSR.Flown by Russians for longer than her airframe should ever have."Repaired" by a bunch of incompetents whose betters have all left the country long ago.Most of what the Soviets have achieved is lostech for modern Russia.
>>64642786>NATO reporting name 'Cock'You can't make this shit up. Russia's cock snapped in half and now they're cockless.
>>64642797The last Russian cock is gone.Truly now the only thing that can be in the ass is the ass.
It would be very serious if this severe damage occurred with the plane empty.
>>64642810But without the mighty Russian cock how will they get the eggs? You know what they say, an unlaid egg can never be measured.
>>64642648That only happens at high temperatures, retard.
>>64639759I would build it to very rigorous aviation standards with regulations governing the materials that can be used.Cardboard's right out.
>>64643032It happens faster at high temperatures, but it absolutely does happen at room temperature. A plane that is many decades old is suspect even if it has flown very few flight cycles.
>>64640182They expected one of us in the wreckage tovarish.
Realistically, how would you prevent this from happening?
>>64640655>Aluminum does not. Any flexing causes permanent damage.Is the same true for titanium?
>>64639759Not make it out of any cardboard derivatives
>>64644665I always hated this scene. The wing is pretty much the frame of a plane, the fuselage would have failed way sooner. Also the big guy (uuuu) doesn't slow down or pitch oscillate or anything from the drag of a business jet literally getting ripped apart while it's towing it
>>64644755Afaik, it happens with all materials period. Luckily for metals at least, it happens at a fairly predictable rate (there is an actual test for this, where they spin a test rod on a machine that counts cycles with a weight on one end causing some flex) so the structural parts can have known lifespans.
>>64639768It was the Masketta Man.
>>64639768It was a big guy.
>>64644839>Afaik, it happens with all materials period.Absolutely not. This is a relatively unique property of aluminium.Steel for example has a yield strength very close to the tensile strength, giving you a huge usable bandwidth in which you can stress the part and it will experience zero plastic deformation.A well designed steel part has an infinite life span in terms of load cycles.Examples would be most springs, or for example ball and roller bearings sized for stiffness in tool machines, where deflection needs to be minimal and thus the bearings are oversized. There you never experience metal on metal contact since the lubricant oil film is never penetrated, but still the metal is being deformed (elastically).Lifetime of such bearings is theoretically infinite as long as the lubricant has perfect purity.In practical terms you eventually get sealing failures and lubricant is never perfectly clean, so you get abrasion damage, but if the load is within yield strength, you get infinite life in that regard.t. mechanical engineer
>>64642694>happen to be wearing parachute>chute fails to open properlyMan, when your number's up your number's up.
>>64639759>how would you prevent thisNot hand it to russians after i’ve built it.
From a philosophical point of view, did the front or the rear fall off?(Neither is very typical, i just want to make that clear)
>>64644935Perhaps it’s decided by which part reached the ground first.
>>64644910No metal can undergo infinitely many load cycles anon. Microatructural defects will eventually build up and make the part fail, though some materials will take so long to do so that that other failure mechanisms take overt. Materials Scientist>>64642648Youre mistaking "aging" which is a kind of heat trearment. What causes these failures is metal fatigue
>>64644935>From a philosophical point of view,which is the front and which is the rear? The raison d'etre of a cargo plane is its cargo, not the cockpit. From a utilitarian perspective, it is the cargo bay that is the front. For without the cargo bay it is useless, a mere Heath Robinson machine. Furthermore, from a layout perspective, if it was pushing the cargo instead of pulling it, as it were, it would still be functionally the same plane. Therefore the cargo bay ought to take primacy, and be considered the "front" of the plane.
>>64639759Bait thread. You can't prevent it, even with proper maintenance the possibility of a unseen stress fracture developing is always there. The only thing you can do is put a shelf life on these type of airframes and replace them when their service window is up.
>>64645013Based philosopher
>>64639807only a REAL tourist like yourself would make such a joke without a carlos imageso, plebbit or zhitter?
>>64645464I don't have a carlos jpeg in my folder.
>>64645011>Youre mistaking "aging" which is a kind of heat trearment.They are the same thing. Solution heat treating aka "aging" is the deliberate acceleration of the process using heat, but it still happens, just more slowly, without heat. It's rather shocking you claim to be a material scientist yet aren't aware of this. It was well covered in the only materials class they made me take towards my ME degree.
>>64644910Knowledgeable effort posting always brings joy to my heart
whoops
>>64645011>No metal can undergo infinitely many load cycles anonit depends on the metal anon, endurance/fatigue limit is a thing. Aluminum doesn't exhibit that property, so you're right in this specific case of aircraft fuselages, but steel can undergo infinitely many stress cycles for sufficiently low stresses.
From what I recall from class (long, long ago) the purer the material latice is (no grain boundaries, no interstitial or substitutional material) the more resistance to fatigue it has.So diamond, being the hardest, purest metal, would be ideal for building an indestructible plane. Trust me, I'm a (software) engineer.
>>64645973How was it even airbourne? It looks like it's falling almost straight down. Did they try to VTOL it or something?
>>64645977Fatigue limits certainly are a useful way to simplify fatigue estimates but there is ample research indicating they arent actually a thing, see below a very appropriately named paper:>There is no infinite fatigue life in metallic materials (Bathias, 2001, Fatigue & Fracture of Engineering Materials & Structures, vol22 iss7)But desu im just being pedantic. In practice this is never gonna come up because youre talking about absurdly high numbers of cycles.>>64645722idk what to tell you, you are just wrongAging is when you heat a metal up to precipitate grains of a second phase, these harden the material by blocki g the movement of dislocations amongst other thingsFatigue happens because microstructural defects pile up as the material undergoes syress cycles eventually leading to cracks forming. No phases involvedYou may have been taught wrong or taken the wrong ideas from your class
>>64646192>>There is no infinite fatigue life in metallic materials (Bathias, 2001, Fatigue & Fracture of Engineering Materials & Structures, vol22 iss7)that was an interesting read, but yeah, it's very much an academic difference. From what I've seen the fatigue limit dropped around 10% between 10^7 and 10^10 cycles for most of their samples, that shouldn't affect almost any real world application in practice
>>64646192>Aging is when you heat a metal up to precipitate grains of a second phase, these harden the material by blocki g the movement of dislocations amongst other thingsYes. And that process happens on its own. It doesn't require heat, it just happens faster with heat. For parts made 50 years ago it's absolutely a problem.>FatigueI'm not talking about fatigue.
>>64639759The tail isnt supposed to fall off.
STOP BANEPOSTING. WHAT YEAR DO YOU THINK IT IS?!
>>64645011>No metal can undergo infinitely many load cycles anon. Microatructural defects will eventually build up and make the part fail, though some materials will take so long to do so that that other failure mechanisms take over>t. Materials ScientistIt takes so long that we entirely ignore it in engineering. A steel part which only is stressed below its fatigue limit is considered to have infinite life. And since the fatigue limit of steel is awesomely high and close to the ultimate tensile strength, that's most steel parts with few exceptions. Infinite life here means the guy who designed it is long dead and the company he worked for is bankrupt and the part has turned into iron oxides and there were 3 thermonuclear wars.For aluminium parts, the fatigue limit is so low it's not useful in most situations.Airplanes stress their aluminium parts way too high to be in within the fatigue limit, so all aluminium parts in airplanes are regularly inspected for cracks and it's a constant issue that requires managing.All airplanes have shit tons of cracks in them at all times, they're just actively managed.There's crack frequency and crack size thresholds and if you're over you need to replace the parts, which also happens regularly.Various airframes had programs where they replaced and reinforced parts of the fuselage due to excessive cracks developing.On steel parts you only do inspections if you see obvious damage, say a scratch in the polished surface of a landing gear strut due to notch effect fatigue, or if you overstressed the part (say, overweight landing)t. mechanical engineer
>>64645977He is theoretically right, there are microstructural defects probably even at the tiniest imaginable stress.But it doesn't have any relevance in engineering, it's too slow a process. Nothing humans build exhibits enough load cycles for it to become a problem.An exception might be a tiny spring you oscillate at kiloherz frequencies for decades.
>>64644889aye
>>64642698He's at "it hit the pier behind it, subamrine is totally fine" now.,
>>64647289Even if that was true, that would still fuck up the submarine. Does that retard think anti-submarine deep charges actually had to touch subs to destroy them?
>>64647011>All airplanes have shit tons of cracks in them at all times, they're just actively managed.Good effort post but wow! I don't like this new information! Thanks!
>>64640435KEK this
>>64647486NTA but everything does, if it's not being built then it's degrading. Same is true of your car, your house, your body. Difference with planes is that there's incredibly strict standards for monitoring these things and either repairing them or pulling them from service when they risk reaching unacceptable levels. And 'unacceptable levels' have very, very generous safety margins built in. Early aviation had issues with this. Australia started the first serious standards for fatigue inspection back in the 40's after (from memory) the first crash ever conclusively connected to it, and when the Comet first started living up to its name, the discovery of why it was happening led to not just every early model being pulled from service immediately but the entire book on commercial aviation design and maintenance being rewritten.And if that still sounds scary, don't look up what a minimum equipment list is.
>>64646020In decadent wect, plane waste many litre of good drinking fuel to desant to ground. Proud soviet plane not insult worker by waste of product of their labor, go straight to ground as efficient as possible!
>>64647289>>64647326did I miss something happening to another russian sub?
>>64648173>>64639816
>>64648017I've been watching videos on aircraft incidents lately, things get wild. After an equipment failure, and a miscommunication, one crew believed that management bypassed the freaking fuel gauge minimum equipment requirement. Factor in some silliness related to early switches to Metric done by the guys fueling the plane and you can guess what happened next.
